Headscratchers / The Empire Strikes Back

  • Other than showcasing their Belligerent Sexual Tension, was there any good reason for Leia to stay in the cockpit of the Falcon snarking at Han while they were fleeing from Hoth and being shot at by TIE fighters rather than, you know, going to one of the Falcon's blaster turrets and shooting back?
    • While it's never explicitly stated in the film, you can divine that none of the Falcon's cannons are working at that time (not even the forward guns, whether from wear-or-tear or just being disassembled for maintenance) from the fact that they never use them at any point in the film.
  • Yoda and Obi-Wan are extremely willing to leave Han and Leia to die in the hands of the Empire because they want Luke to stay and train to stop Vader. Though the biggest reason Luke has a leg up on Vader, that Luke is in any position to threaten Vader is because of his association with Leia in the Rebel Alliance. I don't think Luke would've been able to pose much of a threat to Vader if he were a lower-ranking Rebel.
    • The way I see it, the Emperor implanted an Asskicking Equals Authority order so the institutions by themselves are no longer an immediate threat with the Senate extinguished and the civil war ravaging and so on, only force sensitive players are able to change anything in the You Kill It, You Bought It Sith enforced policy. The movies suggest the Empire is a Decapitated Army without Palpatine, the Rebel Alliance and its assets are of secondary importance there, only capable of tactical victories.
      • Tell that to Jyn, Cassian, Hera, Sabine, the many Bothans, you get the picture. Obi-Wan and Yoda were more concerned with killing Vader and Palpatine than destroying the Empire, and never mention what will happen after the Emperor dies in any scenario. Order 66 probably made them hesitant to trust any sort of military structure to accomplish anything.
    • As Cracked.com would point out, Luke leaving with R2 to try to save his friends actually helps in the long run. If R2 wasn't there to fix the deactivated hyperdrive aboard the Millennium Falcon, Leia, Lando, Chewie and Threepio would have been captured and killed. In particular, Leia would've been tortured about the location of the Rebels once again before being killed, which would lead to the Rebellion's defeat. So if he didn't leave now, help them he wouldn't, and all they've fought and suffered for would have definitely been destroyed.
    • Jedi are not omniscient and have had a lifetime being taught that dying in the name of duty is not the worst thing that can happen. I'm guessing this leaves them numb to the fact that other people don't think that way (they typically are the ones on the front line, so it's not like they expect anything they don't do themselves).
    • Because they're worried about Luke falling to the Dark Side, which would actually be worse than the Rebellion collapsing. Luke himself realizes towards the end of Return of the Jedi that allowing himself to be killed and thus making it much harder for anyone to depose Palpatine would be preferable to him becoming Sith. Even if Luke had lost the chance to really effectively oppose the Emperor, as a fully-trained Jedi he could still have sought out students in secret and rebuilt the Jedi Order underground. If he left, got captured, and was turned, that was it, Game Over for the Jedi effectively forever, in Obi-Wan and Yoda's eyes.
    • There's a simple explanation for all of this: Yoda and Obi-Wan were just completely wrong. They were wrong to tell Luke not to go, wrong not to tell Luke that Vader was his father, wrong to tell Luke that Vader was irredeemable and that if Luke could not kill him that the Emperor had already won. They were just wrong. Contrast this with Luke's father Anakin, who in the prequels did his best to obey the orders of his masters, and blundered right into the Emperor's plans as a result.
    • This whole discussion ignores the fact that Vader had no intention of killing any of his prisoners, they were the bait to trap Luke. Had he stayed away they would have stayed alive. Sure, being tortured sucks and Han was frozen and shipped off to Jabba but again, they're all alive.
      • They would've been tortured, which would've made them even better bait if Luke could sense their suffering. Granted, Leia didn't cave under torture in the last movie, but none of them knew that, and it was still a risk.
  • At the Battle of Hoth, the soldiers who were in the trenches didn't do a damn thing. The whole battle was carried by the snow speeders. For instance, after Wedge and Jansen took down an AT-AT, there was one soldier who saw it and said "Come on!", and started running towards it only for it to be destroyed by another snow speeder a few seconds later. Even taking into account that this was all a distraction, if you took them out altogether, you wouldn't notice.
    • Given the harsh conditions on Hoth, the Rebels were probably planning on an Infantry assault, likely augmented by TIE fighters. The Rebel speeders had to be modified pretty drastically in order to work on Hoth, so it was likely assumed that the walkers wouldn't be of any use. The shield would prohibit Imperial bombardment, and Rouge Squadron was on hand in case any fighters/bombers were sent in. The problem (as we see) is that the walkers obviously did work, and thus outclassed 90% of what had been prepared for the battle.
    • The whole point of the Rebel defense on Hoth was to buy time for the Rebel members to escape. While largely unseen, I always assumed that there were some Imperial ground troops as well that were prevented from storming the trenches.
    • Also, always remember, they're the plucky underground rebels fighting an extremely rich and militarized empire in a series of pitched battles. This is not two well-armed superpowers duking it out on terms both sides have had a hand in choosing. The rebels are using what they've got, not what they need to be effective. They're firing from ground positions because they haven't read the script and don't know that the snow speeders will handle everything.
    • The did have anti-vehicle turrets and high-power blaster rifles, but they were just completely outclassed by the AT-ATs. They were doing the best they could with what they had, what they had just wasn't good enough. And again, they were just buying time for the evacuation, so even if they only slowed the walkers down by making them shoot at the defenders, that was more Rebels and equipment that could make it off the planet.
    • The rebels recognize they could not reasonably defend the base. The purpose was, as the previous troper stated, the distract the imperial forces while they controlled a "tactical withdrawal." However, there WERE imperial infantry troops involved. You can see Snow Troopers during the fight, if I recall correctly, particularly attacking the base itself.
    • It's basic tactics to deploy infantry to screen defensive emplacements, both to have additional firepower and to prevent enemy infantry from infiltrating your positions and destroying your defenses. The Rebel infantry were able to slow down the oncoming Imperial armor, if only by keeping them occupied, and prevented Snowtroopers from getting close to the turrets and destroying them with missiles or other heavy weapons.
  • As Luke is leaving to go rescue Han and Leia, Yoda comments on how "now matters are worse." Obi-Wan replies that "That boy was our only hope." to which Yoda says, "No, there is another." Obi-Wan's been criticized for forgetting Leia, but isn't he right and Yoda wrong? The two are lamenting that they could lose Luke because he is going to face Vader. And yet, Vader already has Leia, so how is she another hope?
    • Partly, the line was written when Luke's sister wasn't Leia. Also, though Vader had Leia, nobody was aware Leia was Force sensitive at all.
      • He still had her, and wasn't going to release her, so she wasn't much of a hope, even with her Force sensitivity unknown.
      • Leia was a rebel leader and figurehead, but she would still have been much easier for the rebels or (if he got really desperate) Yoda to rescue, since she most likely would have been significantly less well guarded than Vader's own friggin' prodigal son.
  • During the Battle of Hoth, was there any impediment to the snow speeders flanking the AT-ATs or coming up behind them? Every approach in the movie comes from the front, where they can be easily shot down by those massive forward batteries on the thing's head. Since AT-ATs don't seem to have rear-facing artillery, the speeders could have just flown past them from out of range, turned around, then attacked (or fired their tow cables) from behind.
    • Could be that the walkers came in waves, and with each successive wave the speeders had to approach head-on due to time constraints. 4 walkers don't carry enough troops to attack an entrenched enemy base, especially with walkers being destroyed on the way in.
    • The walkers are heading towards the base. The snow speeders have to launch from the base. They're thus going to have to come around from the front, at least at the start. It's either that or loop way around, and they don't really have time for that.
  • How long does it take Yoda to train Luke to be a (admittedly partly trained) Jedi? You'd think a few months at least, the length of a Biggest Loser season say, but Luke is trained in the time it takes Han to fly through an asteroid field.
    • Actually, Yoda trained him for longer. The trip to Bespin, according to the EU took quite a while. The main hyperdrive was toast and the backup one was very slow.
    • It's also implied that they stayed on Bespin for awhile (a few days at least) before the Imperials were able to fully spring their trap.
    • I think the point was Luke was not trained enough by the time he left.
    • The new canon reference book Star Wars in 100 Scenes confirms this, that Han used the backup hyperdrive to reach Bespin and that it took months to get there, which is why they couldn't use it earlier until they had thrown Death Squadron off the trail.
  • Good grief, the entire battle of Hoth is one massive plot hole. So the Rebels have their planetary shield up, right? And the Imperials can't fire through that shield to bombard the base. The Rebels, meanwhile, have an ion cannon that CAN fire through the shield (from the inside), and it can temporarily incapacitate a Star Destroyer in a few shots. So...why didn't they just take out the Imperial fleet, then fly blithely out with all troops and technology intact while the Imperials try to regain power? Or, failing that, just take out the drop ships that are carrying the AT-ATs, or just use the ion cannon to shoot the AT-ATs themselves. Seriously, that ion cannon could have won the battle in like three different ways. Or even, maybe, I don't know, USE THE BOMBERS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO TAKE OUT HEAVY ARMOR, RATHER THAN THE AIR SPEEDERS WITH WEAK BLASTERS AND NO SHIELDS??????? Seriously, the Y-wings would have taken down those walkers easily. Or, even, since it's clear that when there's a clear shot, a few blaster shots can take out an AT-AT when hitting the neck, just fly up to the side, stop in midair (these are repulsorcraft, remember, not fixed-wing aircraft), point at the neck, and shoot! Seriously.
    • Because the ion cannon only incapacitates the Star Destroyers, as you said, temporarily. As in, just enough time to stop them from actually intercepting a ship.

      As for using the Ion Cannon to take out the AT-ATs or those drop ships, did you even see it? It's a giant mounted gun pointed straight up. It simply does not have anywhere near the articulation to hit something near the ground, and was probably only able to hit the Star Destroyers because they're frigging huge.

      As for using the Y-Wings, they're slow as hell (i.e., great targets), and there's a throwaway line about the speeders having to be modified to work in the conditions on Hoth—presumably that's what's keeping them from using the Y-Wings. And there is never anything in the entire canon of the series that ever indicates that Y-Wings, X-Wings, or any other fighters can come to a dead stop in mid-air like you're suggesting.

      So, please, cut it out with the all caps screaming.
      • Plausible on that ion cannon, but they should have been able to do something with it. Even just shooting it at the ground by the AT-ATs would at least be worth a try. The bottom line is that the Rebels are given this massively powerful plot device that can apparently do some pretty spectacular things (especially given how terrifying and powerful SDs are implied to be), and there's no real explanation for why they can't just do any number of other things with it.

        As for bombers — they're not all that slow. Probably not much slower than air-speeders, given that they're spacecraft, not air vehicles. Besides, as I said, they have actual shields, so they could probably take more than half a shot before they fell out of the sky. Not to mention that they more than likely could just lob proton torps at the things from like three miles away. And the cold conditions — we saw X-wings taking off right out in the open with no trouble.

        Speaking of taking off, when X-wings and Y-wings, and I think also T-47s, take off, they're pretty much stationary. It makes no sense for them to be unable to come to a stop, since they use antigravity tech and don't rely on speed to keep themselves up. It's just that they usually don't stop, because it's impractical, because they'd get fried. But in this case there's nothing other than maybe some AT-S Ts on the battlefield that would actually be able to aim at them properly. They probably wouldn't stop entirely, just slow down enough to get in a quick shot or two at the side.
      • Not just "plausible" on the ion cannon—look at the thing. It is physically incapable of pointing anywhere except up into the sky. By its very design, it cannot possibly do the things you're suggesting they should try.

        The X-wings took off and flew straight up into the atmosphere, not stick around close to the ground flying and fighting. They're not specific about just what needs to be done to convert the snow speeders to work on Hoth, but apparently there's something that makes it so that the space fighters don't just work.

        Just because they hover when they take off doesn't mean they can come to a stop in mid-air like you're suggesting. We're never shown any of the fighters be capable of doing that throughout the entire series. Any time they stop, they're within a few feet of the ground.
      • It has a fair amount of freedom, assuming it's mainly limited by the fact that it shouldn't point into the ground. I'm assuming the only reason it's spherical is so it can rotate.

        There's a difference between an air-speeder and a starfighter. Fighters are almost certainly designed to work in all sorts of environments. If they can't work in a cold climate, how are they going to operate in a space battle full of debris or a nebula? (Granted, space isn't actually cold, but some environments these things would be expected to work in certainly are. Air support on freezing planets, for example.) Besides, they wouldn't have to be there for long. All they'd have to do would be to spend a few minutes locking on to the AT-ATs and lobbing out a few proton torps, and bam! No immediate threat, plan an extended fighter attack on the Imperial fleet, evacuate the base with all personnel intact, and find a new base.

        Wrong. Remember the speeder chase in Aot C? Anakin takes his "shortcut" and they lose Zam, and then they pull up to a dead stop in midair, possibly miles above the ground, and argue for a minute before Anakin jumps. And don't tell me it's a different technology. They're repulsorlifts. They're used in everything. And as I keep saying, it makes no sense for an antigravity system to rely on airspeed.
      • That's a big assumption not supported by what we see in the movie. Look at it. Unless it's going to be rolling, it's not going to be pointing anywhere near where the AT-AT's are.

        It's not nearly that easy to take out one of the AT-AT's. They're still heavily armored, and they have support on the ground—remember those thousands of ground troops in the battle? The empire would be pretty shitty if their biggest assault vehicles were easy to take out with a handful of torpedoes. Since, you know, wading through that kind of fire is the whole reason for an Armored Transport in the first place. And an extended fighter attack on the Imperial fleet? The fleet that has hundreds and hundreds of disposable Tie fighters and enormous ships which dwarf in power most of what the Rebellion has in total, let alone what they have at Hoth? There's a word for that kind of thing: Suicide.

        I said fighters. And, yes, from everything we see in all of the movies, the fighters are not capable of sudden and complete stops in mid-air like you're suggesting. There are a dozen air-combat scenes that would have, and should have, played out completely differently if they were capable of that.

        So, in short, you're saying the rebels are dumb because they didn't make their Ion cannon do something it couldn't do, didn't instantly annihilate the armored transports they could barely dent with capabilities their fighters didn't have, and didn't proceed to commit suicide by head-on attacking a fleet that has them outnumbered and outgunned in every way.
      • The ion cannon probably couldn't take down the AT-ATs, but my other points about it stand, given that there's no proof it doesn't have better aim than you think.

        What makes you think an AT-AT could stand up to a proton torpedo or even a concussion missile? They never even tried anything other than ludicrously weak blaster cannons. "That armor's too strong for blasters", not torpedoes. The things are designed to take out shielded capital ships, remember. And oh you mean like they did in the next movie, and won? I'm not saying that it necessarily would have worked, but they would have had a lot more options than they did as it was. They had plenty of bombers, that clearly could have spent enough time in the atmosphere to launch torpedoes on their way up, and while they admittedly weren't likely to be able to defeat the entire Imperial fleet, they could do something similar to what they did, only with lots fewer casualties and more exploding Star Destroyers since they would have all their fighters and capital ships in one place.

        Everything indicates that they can. There is no reason why they wouldn't be able to. You're grasping at straws now. I already explained why fighters don't normally stop during combat, and that's because they'd get shot if they stopped moving, which wouldn't happen here because the only flak is either from AT-STs that could be taken out relatively quickly by turrets or speeders, or is only a problem if you're right in front of the AT-ATs. And you keep saying that I'm thinking they should come to a complete stop, instantly. I'm not. All they'd need to do would be to slow down. Actually all they'd need to do would be exactly what Luke did with that little maneuver before he flew between the legs, only aiming at the neck instead.

        Oh and there's yet another reason they could have won that I'd forgotten about. Luke uses his lightsaber to cut a hole in this thing. That brings up a lot of questions. He has a melee weapon, which would have given him a massive advantage should he have chosen to enter the vehicle and slaughter the snow troopers in the confined space, then taken control of the thing and used it to eliminate the others. Failing that (operating the walkers apparently requires a lot of physical strength, but still, this is Luke Skywalker we're talking about here), he could at least have taken out some of the others the same way he did while the Rebels were retreating. The fastest way to do that would be to grapple up onto the top of the thing, cut a hole, drop a bomb in, Force/grapple jump to the next walker, rinse and repeat. Granted he'd need more bombs, but seriously.
      • ^ What makes you think that Luke knows how to pilot an AT-AT? And how would he have time to teach himself in the middle of battle? It's better to just blow the thing up and get rid of it than to take the risk of boarding it and then waste time with unfamiliar controls.
      • No, the proton torpedoes cannot take down shielded capital ships. They never do, once in the entire series. The only time a capital ship is taken down is after they destroy the shield generators. As for them "winning" in the following movie? Well, no. They won because they blew up the Death Star and killed the emperor—they did not take on the imperial fleet and win ship to ship. They only had a chance because the Emperor specifically ordered his fleet not to attack in full strength, and that was while the Rebels had literally every single ship they could get their hands on.

        Right, no indication that they can't do that, except that they never, ever do that at any point in the series even when it would have been extremely useful. Regardless of how you think they should work, clearly the fighters work on some principle that requires them to move at speed, or at least makes it difficult and impractical to come to a stop in the air. And the writers, as I understand it, admit that the AT-AT blowing up after it topples was a cheat that shouldn't have happened—it was there to indicate the thing was destroyed and out of the fight. Can you imagine how hilariously idiotic it would be if your armored transport completely blew up while standing from just a couple laser shots to the single most obvious vulnerable spot this side of a giant glowing eye?

        "He has a melee weapon" does not give Luke some ungodly advantage. He's not a Jedi yet. The sum total of his training consists of that drone. Instead, it's "he has a melee weapon that's extremely dangerous to its own user, and he doesn't really know how to use it." If he wades into a box full of enemies with laser blasters depending on a weapon he has not been trained with, he is going to die.
      • No, he's not. I don't care if you're a Jedi or not; if you have a sword and you're fighting a bunch of people with combat rifles in a tiny space designed for troop transport, you're going to slaughter them before they even have a chance to fight back, and that's not even taking into account the fact that you have enormous natural potential with psychic abilities, with which you have (very) rudimentary training and with which you have been practicing, albeit mentor-less, for three years, you're wielding a sword that can deflect bullets, and the average storm/snow-trooper's aiming abilities.
      • That is completely wrong in every single way. A cramped environment hampers the ability to swing a sword, and you know what else it does? It gives you no room to dodge. The idea that he'd "slaughter" them just because he has a sword is utterly laughable.
      • Not when you have a sword that can cut through anything. Granted it takes a bit of time with heavier materials but still. Suffice to say, if they were expecting a random ambush inside their twenty-foot-high tank, then Luke would lose. If not, he wouldn't. Actually come to think of it, he could just lob in a low-yield grenade to clear the place out, then take out the occupants of the cockpit with his blaster.
      • Completely wrong again. Unless Luke can slaughter everyone in there before they even know he's there (hint: He won't), he is going to, at some point, be confronted with several troopers firing at him at once in cramped confines where he has no room to dodge.
      • I already explained why fighters never stop. They would get shot, because space battles are normally full of laser fire because whoever's in charge of the formation is smart enough, unlike the AT-AT drivers, to cover every angle. Besides, the snow-speeders wouldn't have to be any higher than they are during takeoff to target the neck, and I just said that they wouldn't even have to stop entirely. The only argument that can really be made is that they have some sort of maneuvering thrusters that take time to turn off or something. And as you keep claiming that it would be useful for fighters to be able to stop, it makes no sense for them not to be installed with the same repulsorlifts that power air-speeders like the one Anakin stole. If I were a Doylist, I would just say that it's so they look like aerial fighters, but if I were a Doylist I would have written all this off as bad writing long ago.
      • Stopping would've been great in the Death Star trench—stop, let the tie fighters swing past you, then shoot them down. The only time we see the fighters do any of the sort of maneuvering you're thinking of is when they're landing—probably they switch to something like a land-speeder's drive when they get close to the ground and slow down enough.
      • Don't even get me started on all the problems with the Battle of Yavin. And my point stands: they would have gotten sniped by those turrets at the end of the trench had they stopped. Or the TI Es would have stopped too. Besides, it's pretty much irrelevant in space combat because, y'know, no gravity. Although the Death Star did have some. Here I'm gonna look at repulsorlifts on Wookieepedia. (...) Kay. Repulsorlift range is the six times the diameter of the planet the repulsor is pushing against. Approx. 75000 kilometers for an average-size habitable body. And they're "included on virtually every type of vehicle". It later says that includes air-speeders and starships capable of operating in an atmosphere. They're said to be capable of "levitating" an object, with no mention of speed.
      • Nope again. Remember two things: One, they went into the trench partly because there were fewer turrets up there, and two, the turrets stopped when the Tie Fighters followed them in there. And most of the technical stuff only came years and years after the movies. I'm arguing the movies here, not the expanded universe (which, as far as I'm concerned, can in great quantities be thrown out for missing the point. I'm looking at you, contrived explanations of the Kessel Run).
      • No, it can't be thrown out. You can argue the movies all you like — that's not what I'm doing, and it wasn't from the start. Besides, that brings up even more problems, since most of the ones I haven't mentioned I'm accepting the EU explanations for. And regardless of repulsors, they've gotta be capable of deceleration anyway, because otherwise they'd be completely useless for basically anything. I mean at the very least they must have retrorockets. So they could have used your trick regardless. (They also should have been able to just cut engines, turn around, and fly backwards to shoot at the TI Es, using momentum to keep moving and repulsors to escape the DS's gravity. But hey, another movie, another battle, another Swiss-cheese plot point.)
      • And yes, proton torpedoes are designed for anti-cap-ship use. We see an orphaned torp striking a Star Destroyer in the background during the Battle of Endor (right when that flaming TIE fighter goes past), and shortly afterward, concussion missiles from a pair of A-wings are used to take down the very shields you mentioned by striking the generators. Which brings up another Fridge Logic, that being the fact that you could just have the guided missiles hit the weak-point — the neck — and be done with it. (If you want proof, Luke's torpedoes obviously curved into the vent shaft at the end of ANH. And that wasn't just him using the Force or they wouldn't have even bothered trying, since at that angle a straight shot never would have gone in. Also the discord missiles in Revenge of the Sith.)
      • The torpedoes weren't guided—remember, the other guy's just struck the surface. I think that was supposed to be something like them getting caught in the vent shaft's suction or something. They can't be guided because Luke isn't using the targeting computer, remember. And all that still depends on A. the AT-AT's having such a glaring and obvious weak point (which they probably don't), and B. the Rebels even knowing about it.
      • It's a vent, not a vacuum cleaner. Those torpedoes would have had no chance of actually going straight down the shaft without guidance. And (Wookieepedia saves the day again) it's confirmed that Rebel fighter-issue proton torps can maneuver. Quite well at that, apparently. As for A/B: the Rebels obviously knew about it, given that they specifically aimed at it after the thing was taken down. Besides, I maintain that a torpedo would completely obliterate those walkers. They're ground armor, not dreadnoughts.
      • Luke turned off his targeting computer, remember. His torpedoes couldn't have been guided, because he explicitly was not using the thing that would have been guiding them. And no, they didn't "specifically aim at it" so much as they strafed the thing with blaster fire. And you're "maintaining" something that you've basically made up. That's most of your argument, really—that you, personally, think that things should be working in ways that we never see them work. That the Rebels should be using tactics and equipment that we're shown will not work at all the way you're suggesting they should.
      • I am not the one saying that repulsorlifts work like wings when there are onscreen examples proving that they clearly don't. You are making stuff up. The protons they were using have onboard guidance systems, and as we saw in ANH, apparently they can maneuver without the aid of a targeting computer, the purpose of which would presumably be to lock on and hone the aim further. Although you do have a point; the targeting computer thing is odd since it really appears that the torpedoes are guiding themselves in, not being Force-manipulated, simply from the way they're moving. However, the plan clearly required homing torpedoes in order to work, or else they would have to have flown straight down toward it. (I know, I know. More fire. But there would have been ways around that, and they were swooping around up there anyway.) Meanwhile, there's no indication that the armor is too strong for anything more than blasters. Torpedoes are heavier weapons. That's obvious simply from the visuals and the way they're portrayed; they're clearly meant to evoke bombs or missiles. Or maybe, y'know, torpedoes. Either way they're clearly more powerful than the bullet-esque laser bolts. EDIT: I checked Wookieepedia again, and it appears the purpose of the targeting computer is to help the pilot aim, not to actually guide the weapons.
      • I guess it's analogous to the reason modern air forces (hell, air forces back to WW2) have specialized ground attack aircraft for close air support as well as air superiority fighters. And if you think for a moment about how frikking BIG space is you realize that there would have to be specialized vehicles like speeders for close air support on a planet. A fighter that can travel between Yavin IV and the Death Star in less than 5 minutes is going to be fast. A pilot trying to take part in a ground battle would be futile, once he hit the throttle on his X-wing, he would blow completely past the battlefield; just like an F-22 doing Mach 2 is not going to be able to strafe an enemy tank with its cannon. That's why we have Apache helicopters- of which the snow-speeders might be the in-universe equivalent.
      • For air support the real-world analogy you're probably looking for is the A-10, not the AH-64. Snow speeders don't hover in one spot.
      • Yes, I wanted to say "A-10" and don't for the life of me know why I didn't. Probably all the talk of "hovering" further up the page got me confused. The snow-speeders are A-10 Warthogs, the X- and Y-wings are F-22s.
    • Ok, I'm late to this discussion, but I want to give my two cents regarding the ion cannon: OP, you're suggesting that they use the ion cannon to destroy the AT-ATs... I repeat; using the weapon that can disable Star Destroyers temporarily, (of which they only have one) to take down the tiny (in comparison to star destroyers) walkers. Even if the ion cannon could target the walkers (which I seriously doubt), using it on them would be Overkill to ridiculous degrees and since they're evacuating at the same time... well, congratulations, you've stopped the walkers, and consequently, lost all your space capable vehicles because the orbiting Star Destroyers were untouched. That is why the ion cannon was only used to disable Star Destroyers; so the transports could escape untouched. Using it in any other way only runs the risk of losing even more personnel to the orbiting Imperial Fleet.
      • Has anyone considered that maybe the Ion Cannon just has limited ammo? Like some sort of battery that runs out if they use it too much. So they can't just shoot every single Star Destroyer all the time; they have to hit particular Star Destroyers at the exact moment when they threaten the escaping transport ships. (This would also explain why they can't use the Ion Cannon against the AT-ATs, even assuming you could tilt the thing downward far enough to hit ground targets. If you knock out the AT-ATs but you run out of ammo to defend the transports, then the transports get destroyed.)
    • In so far as Rogue Leader can be taken as canon (and I do considering it's movie-accurate in many respects, with a few embellishments for the sake of gameplay), it shows that Y-wings can't destroy AT-ATs with bombing runs. Even their advance-strength cluster munitions are ineffective on the walker's neck and other parts. It seems as though that they are up-armored against pretty much everything short of a thermobaric warhead.
    • The planet defense ion cannon are not terribly accurate weapons, even hitting something like a Star Destroyer is more luck (and the fact that it was sitting on the same outbound vector the escape Rebel ships were taking.) Shooting it at AT-ATs, even if it could depress to that degree (highly doubtful), would have been pointless; they wouldn't hit anything.
    • On the original subject, the Ion Cannon is not "firing through the shield." The shield has to be briefly opened for the transport and its fighter escorts to pass through, and it's during that time frame that the ion cannon is fired. The ion cannon's job is to hopefully clear out any ships in the transport's path so they have a clear route to get off world. Even then, it's a risky proposition. Note how everyone cheers when the announcement is made that "The first transport is away."
    • Long story short: There's no indication that either the ion cannon can rotate down enough to engage the AT-AT force, nor is there any indication that it's even in a position to engage the AT-AT force. If it's on the other side of a mountain or cliff from the direction the Imperials are invading, then it's completely useless against them anyway. As for using the speeders to approach the necks and fire while holding still, that's inviting them to get shot down. The Imperial force included AT-ST support and ground troops, both of which would eagerly blow apart any hovering Rebel aircraft that stopped long enough to line up a shot. As for using Y-Wings or X-Wings against the AT-AT walkers, it was more important that they use the starfighters to escort each transport out. Keep in mind that they were already stretched so badly that they could only send two fighters with each transport, so they didn't have anything that could be spared to stop the ground assault. Even if the starfighters took out some of the Imperial walkers, they would just send down more vehicles and troops until the Rebels ran out of bombs, and the rebel starfighters wouldn't be able to intercept and destroy all of the ground troops. Their best hope was to use their non-space attack craft and ground troops to delay the Imperials while the majority of personnel and equipment were evacuated, and the starfighters were tasked to the important objective of protecting the transports. The entire ground battle was just a delaying action.
      • Rogue One clears this up. At the battle of Scarif, rebel fighter craft have no trouble at all wrecking AT-ATs.
      • Blue Squadron was wrecking AT-ACTs (All Terrain Armored Cargo Transports), not AT-ATs. AT-ACTs are built for hauling cargo; they probably only have enough armor and weapons to deter pirates, using the rest of the weight for cargo. The 'back' of AT-ACTs is hollow with only a thin 'spine', a weakness which Blue Squadron exploits on Scarif, but one that isn't shared with the AT-ATs.
  • While checking for lifeforms on Hoth with their high-tech sensors, Luke and Han conclude there's nothing living there...moments before a big, very big, critter jumps up and takes out Luke and his steed. How'd they miss him? And what did such a huge carnivore normally eat on that planet?
    • I just assumed they were checking for prowlers around their base, specifically. As for how they missed the wampa? Beats me. Maybe the radar somehow couldn't pick it up? Wasn't there a blizzard going on at that time? Also, the wampa would have likely been trying to hide from Luke and the tauntan (which is presumably one of its main source of meals).
    • Depends on what the sensors were looking for exactly. I have no idea what kind of life signs could be picked up remotely, unless they were scanning for heat sources. So, the sensors they planted were IR scanners. Now let us assume that the Wampa is a creature superbly evolved to live on Hoth, one whose fur holds body heat in so well that it radiates at almost the same level as the surroundings; in other words, a creature that doesn't show up on an IR scan. Maybe this is a common adaptation for all the native life forms of Hoth, or at least a good many, which would be why it seemed that there "isn't enough life to fill a space cruiser". Or- maybe the wampa hides under the snow, waiting for prey to pass, which would have the same effect. Either way, it didn't show up on infra-red.
    • A better question is, what the heck does the wampa EAT? Well, tauntauns, but then, what do THEY eat? Hoth's not crawling with plant life. Plus, Han's mount freezes to death before the two humans—these are supposed to be native fauna, but they can't survive a typical night in their planets' weather? The question isn't where did the wampa come from, it's how does mammalian megafauna survive on Hoth in the first place?
      • A wampa is like a polar bear. If you saw a polar bear in the middle of the arctic and you didn't know what it was, it might seem absurd. How does this creature find food in such a desolate environment? Well it turns out that the arctic has more life than you might think. Polar bears eat seals, and the seals eat fish. So maybe Hoth has fishing holes of some sort, and the fish there form the basis of a food chain that leads up to tauntauns and wampas.
    • I always figured the Tauntan was simple overworked to death because Han was forcing it to go as fast as it could go without any breaks. Luke's clearly got along fine outdoors before the Wampa iced it.
    • Lots of animals can't necessarily survive a typical night in this planet's weather. That's why they make nests and houses to get away from that weather.
  • During the Battle of Hoth, snow-speeder pilots realize that their guns can't penetrate the AT-AT's, so they trip one using a cable. They they shoot at it, and it explodes. So, the snow-speeder guns suddenly got more effective after the AT-AT was tripped. How?
    • It's easier to make a called shot to a weak point on a target that isn't moving any more.
    • The crashing fall might have loosened some of the armor, or damaged the chassis, making it more vulnerable.
    • The neck is the weak point of the AT-ATs, thus it getting shot at from the neck would cause it to explode.
    • Heavily armored at the front doesn't mean heavily armored on all sides.
  • How did it take so long for Luke to discover that Darth Vader is his father? It hasn't been that long since his transformation, and surely there must be plenty of people in the Rebel Alliance who are aware of the connection. Did no one bring it up?
    • If recall correctly, the EU claims most people believe Anakin Skywalker was among the Jedi killed during the attack on the temple. So not many know he is Darth Vader.
      • Addressed in the new EU book Tarkin, where Governor Tarkin, who served with Anakin during the Clone Wars, strongly believes Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are the same person, but considers the rumors that Vader was actually an cybernetic-enhanced super soldier that Palpatine introduced at the end of the war. Some even think there's more Vaders just waiting to be activated in a lab somewhere.
    • Once Anakin was confined to the Darth Vader suit, Palpatine had no reason to reveal his identity, and every reason to conceal it. Vilifying all the Jedi in the public image would be much easier than vilifying all but one, and the only reason to reveal that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker is to make people fondly remember their romantic notions of his heroic exploits, which would make them fondly remember their romantic notions of the heroic exploits of all the other Jedi, which would make anti-Jedi sentiment that much harder to cultivate.
  • This is more a question to the original script, but most fans know that Vader's line, "No.... I am your father!" was originally, "No.... Obi Wan killed your father!" What I want to know, is what was the original line in the script for "Join me.... and we'll rule the galaxy as father and son!"
    • As far as I know, the line was already intended to be "No... I am your father!" when the script was released. The reason it was shown as "Obi-Wan killed your father!" was because Lucas wanted to keep the reveal a secret. During filming, when they were recording that scene, the only people who knew the actual line were George Lucas, Mark Hamill and James Earl Jones (who's lines would be edited in later), so it was planned at that point, possibly even earlier. I know that doesn't really answer your question, but I think the line could have been left the way it was in the original script, and use it to show that Vader is a complete nut job, when in actuality it was a cunning deception.
    • I presume it was something like "Join me, and we will rule the galaxy together without the Emperor." Something of the same length and the same basic idea, just without the words "father and son".
  • Why no air support at Hoth? Couldn't the Empire have just sent down fighters to help the walkers?
    • Planetary shield around the base.
    • The Rebels mention that the speeders had to be modified to work in the cold of Hoth, so it's likely the Empire simply didn't do the same for their fighters. Alternatively, they were holding the fighters in reserve to take on whatever fighter escorts the escaping rebel ships had.
    • If you take five minutes to consider the strategic outlook of the war and the tactical situation of the specific battle, it becomes obvious that in any interstellar war between space-faring militaries/civilizations (that is, assuming neither party has access to some kind of planet-to-planet teleportation technology), maintaining naval supremacy above a targeted planet would almost always assume a higher priority of importance than any form of ground assault. Ships sitting in orbit could either bombard the co-ordinates of the rebel base or maintain a blockade until more Imperial reinforcements arrive (or both). It makes sense to concentrate every vessel capable of space-flight above orbit, since the rebels have to get past them sooner or later. Remember that the reason the ground assault was really necessary was purely to destroy the shields of the base. Its extraordinarily unlikely that a fleet's worth of ground assault units wouldn't be able to manage that, but even if they didn't... so what? The rebels have to leave as quickly as possible, or the Imperial presence will just get stronger and stronger until escape is impossible. The argument could be made that the Empire needed a stronger assault force on the base because they also needed to take out that ion cannon, but firstly to my best recollection the Imperial force didn't know they had one until it opened fire (and therefore its a hindsight observation), and secondly it gives the rebels a much better chance at dividing and conquering their enemies.
      • A better question still: why didn't the Empire send some of those fast, agile ground assault vehicles from the prequels, rather than slow and cumbersome mechanical camels?
      • The camels, while slower, were also better protected from mines and had an important advantage over the fast, agile vehicles: armor. A single missile could take out the older vehicles, whereas the only AT-ATs that are destroyed are taken out by a Jedi and Sir Issac Newton. Also, the AT-ATs were enclosed, while the older vehicles often weren't, offering more protection from enemy fire and the cold. Given the distance to be traversed and the conditions that had to be dealt with, the AT-ATs were the better option.
      • The Empire DID send some of their fast, agile ground assault vehicles: AT-STs accompanied the AT-ATs, as can be seen in the film. According to supplementary materials, one of their roles was to use their sensors to ensure that the heavy AT-ATs had a safe path that could bear their weight.
    • They did have Orbital Support in the form of the Star Destroyer that was glad to see the first ships leave the surface. They were apparently not prepared for the ION Cannon strike. One could argue that all the lack of prep was due to Vader sending out forces all over the galaxy searching for his son. He sure was not looking for the rebels. He could not have cared less about the rebels. All he wanted was Luke. And the Empire forces on Hoth suffered for his hard focus.
    • Rogue Leader and Rebel Strike show that both Wedge and Luke encountered TIE-fighters harassing the evacuating transports. They employed bombers against the transports before/as they were taking off, and standard TI Es and interceptors against Rogue Squadron and to help soften up the transports. They didn't need to support the ground contingent because a) the AT-ATs are better suited to destroy the Ion cannon and it's surface defenses and b) the whole walker squadron had the ground battle pretty much won all by itself and some snow-trooper support without requiring air cover.

  • Is it ever explained (even poorly) how exactly Cloud City is able to float? Is the atmosphere really that thin (which would mean, assuming they are human, Luke & co. would not be able to breathe outdoors)? Is there some kind of mystical device that creates lift without any visible heat or light being given off? Granted, even for a modern jet plane one has a hard time seeing the exhaust, but Luke was hanging under there for a little while and I sure didn't seen anything resembling a "thruster".
    • Antigravity is extremely common in the setting to keep things afloat.
    • Repulsors. Same way land-speeders float and starships can lift off the ground without any visible exhaust.
    • The center pole that hangs below the city is the repulsorlift that keeps everything afloat.
    • And the center pole is made out of the stuff that black boxes are made out of.
    • So, essentially, a Jedi did it
      • No, a Jedi did not do it. Pay attention. Cloud City is held up by repulsor force fields.
      • Oh, you're no fun.
    • Bespin has a "habitable layer," where the pressure and atmosphere are survivable. Obviously, that's where Cloud City is.

  • Why is Lando wearing Han's clothes at the end of the movie?
    • There are 3 possibilities I've just thought of :
      • 1) It's a sort of 'uniform' traditionally worn by Independent Interstellar Traders. Or, if you like, Smugglers and Space Pirates.
      • 2) Lando's usual, expensive, wardrobe was inappropriate for his new role as a Space Pirate (too flashy and eye-catching).
      • 3) They are actually Lando's clothes. Remember, Han won the Falcon from Lando in a card game. Perhaps Lando's outfits were still on board and he's only now reclaiming them.
      • Well, the pants are standard Corellian military issue, according to the Han Solo novels (it goes on a bit about the red piping).
    • Lando didn't have time to pack a change of clothes when fleeing Cloud City so he would only have the clothes he was wearing at the time. It's a safe bet that Han had some of his clothes stored on the Millennium Falcon making them the obvious and possibly only option when Lando needed to change.
    • Simpler explanation: Lando is taking on Han's role in the True Companions until he is rescued. Naturally he's going to dress like him.
      • But that's the meta reason; I doubt Leia, Chewie and Luke held a meeting and said "okay, since Lando's temporarily assumed Han's place in the story, we'll dress him up like a Replacement Goldfish in the meantime. Come on Lando, let's go shopping!" In-universe, it could be any one of the three above reasons, or just a fashion sensibility than Han and Lando happen to share (if anything, Lando's original clothing as the administrator of Cloud City was probably out of the ordinary for him).
      • Given that he goes back to wearing something very similar to his Cloud City getup as General Calrissian in Return of the Jedi, I think the likeliest explanation is that he needed a new set of clothes, and Han's old duds were all that was available.

  • How long did it take for Yoda to train Luke on Dagobah? It was shown not having been more than a few days and that was far less training than Luke's father received? Is Yoda just THAT GOOD?
    • Hard to say. Obviously you can't show that much training on a film without a montage, but it's never really stated how long it was, anyways. Beyond that, Luke went off half-trained, and quite deficient (compare him to some of the stunts other Jedi do in the prequels).
    • Yoda didn't think so. He told Luke that he had taught him everything that he could. WTH???
    • Not when he was departing the first time. When he faced Vader, he lost, and would've been captured if not for things completely out of his control, i.e. Lando.
    • "Everything that he could" doesn't necessarily mean everything there is to know. Yoda wasn't in any shape to teach Luke much about lightsaber combat, for example, and there's probably a lot of teaching that goes on in a young padawan's life that there just wasn't time for. Yoda was saying he's given Luke all the instruction that he could in the time he had, not that he taught Luke everything there was to know about Jedi.
    • There is no indication that Luke's training takes "no more then a few days." He is training for the amount of time it takes for the Falcon to fly from Hoth to Bespin at sub light speeds. I realize that Star Wars isn't exactly hard science, but we can assume that if it only took a few days to fly between star systems, light-speed wouldn't be nearly as important as it's made out to be. We're talking possibly several months to a year, certainly a good deal more then a few days.
      • That doesn't jive. If the Falcon was that long in transit, why did Fett track it that entire time rather than calling in his employer to collect the bounty? Shorter interval means he can move on to additional contracts.
      • Because you don't collect a bounty just for calling someone up and saying "Hey dude, I'm looking at the bounty, money plz." You have to actually, y'know, capture the bounty and go turn it in.
    • It's also worth remembering that Yoda's primary concerns weren't about teaching Luke how to use force abilities, but the philosophy behind the Jedi and the Force. Sure, battle meditation would probably be useful, but it's not much good to someone who can't resist the draw of the Dark Side.
    • It's been confirmed that the Falcon's trip to Bespin took several months because they were running on the backup hyperdrive, so Luke got months of training from Yoda, not just a few days.

  • This spoof video has a point (1:44). Why didn't Vader grab Luke with Force after the kid'd jumped into the shaft in Ep. V?
    • The same reason that Jedi/Sith fights don't just involve throwing each other around with telekinesis. You can block telekinesis that's directly applied to you.
      • Except that Vader was far more powerful than Luke was at that point, plus his son's hand had been severed and thus Luke's ability to resist would be negligible given the pain he would be in. I always felt that the reason why Vader didn't grab Luke with the Force was because he was hurt by the fact that his son would rather die than stand by his father's side, I know that if my family showcased some sort of disappointment in me, like Luke did against Vader, then I would be affected by it.
      • OP: Of course you would, but you are not an imperturbable, emotionally-scarred, evil cyborg (you're not, right?). Even notwithstanding that, it'd be very naive for Vader to expect that Luke would just leap into his embrace right away, especially after all the pounding, arm-cutting, Han Solo-freezing, Empire-serving and Alderaan-blowing up, and Vader was anything but naive. Next, family issues can be sorted out, unlike the consequences of a thousand-mile drop. Finally, what about Force Precognition? A death wish should be a very strong emotion, surely Vader would sense it. And Vader did use telekinesis successfully during his fight with Luke.
      • Vader used telekinesis, but it was to throw inanimate objects around, he never picked Luke up. Given how ridiculously effective such a power would be if it really worked, the fact that he never used it suggests that Luke is strong enough to put up some resistance. After dropping down the hole Luke only needed to resist for a few seconds before he fell out of reach.
      • In the novel he used it directly on Luke (to push, not to pull, I admit, but come on). As mentioned above Vader was incomparably more powerful than the boy even before all the beating and arm-cutting.
      • Force Push and Force Pull are two different powers. Pushing involves creating a concussive blast in the air which hits the target and knocks them down (in the prequels you can clearly see the shockwave), but pulling involves using the Force directly on the target. Force users are able to resist Force attacks against themselves, if you look at The Force Unleashed for example, throwing stormtroopers around with the Force is a standard tactic, but as soon as you face someone who is even vaguely skilled with the Force it becomes largely useless and certainly not something you can rely on to work if you only have a few seconds.
      • I assume that force-users have a "defensive advantage" when other people try to use the force on them. So even though Luke would never have the strength to push Vader around, he has the strength to stop Vader from pushing him around. That's why Vader has to throw inanimate objects at Luke, rather than pushing Luke directly. (Or pulling, if you want to make that distinction.)
    • One word: Whiplash.
      • If Star Wars functioned with any normal sense of physics Luke would have splattered into a million pieces the moment he made contact with the cold, hard surface of that tunnel that must have been about a thousand miles below. I am assuming that the Force can cushion the damage that natural physics would have on a body so Vader grabbing Luke would have been no more dangerous than what Luke was about to fall to... his death.
      • If you look carefully you see that Luke gets sucked to the side into the vent, arresting his momentum, and after a fall of much less height than that. Vader was shocked for the second or two in which he might have been able to do anything.

  • Han hides the Millennium Falcon by landing on the backside of a Star Destroyer's island...superstructure, whatever. The Falcon looks tiny by comparison. TIE fighters are shown to be very small—certainly not substantially larger than the Falcon. Yet late in RotJ, a TIE fighter appears to explode against the superstructure and it's almost the same size.
    • Perspective. The TIE was closer to the camera when it kabooms, plus that particular Star Destroyer had an enlarged command tower, since it was serving as a communications vessel. Yes, one of the blasts from the X-Wing hit that SD, but a. Deflector Shields and b. The X-Wing probably snap-rolled left to avoid the TIE's debris, and it's final shot just went off during/after the maneuver.

  • Apparently in this film's special edition, when Luke decides to fall to his death rather than join Vader, a scream is digitally added as Luke falls. Why would Luke scream if he's accepted his fate and chose to fall.
    • Falls are still scary even if you've decided to jump. Also, his arm's still burning from being chopped at, so it might also be from pain.
    • That's the reason why George Lucas decided to remove the digitalized scream in the 2004 DVD version.

  • I just had a massive Fridge Logic realization. Near the end of the movie when Lando and Leia save Luke and attempt to escape in hyperspace, it almost doesn't work and we are treated to Vader questioning the imperial admiral if he deactivated the Falcon's hyperdrive. I have a question about this decision. This was obviously done after Han and Leia had been captured, so why didn't Vader just ORDER THE FALCON DESTROYED SO THEY COULDN'T SOMEHOW ESCAPE? There was no need to keep up the appearance that the Falcon was still on the landing pad!
    • Deactivating the hyperdrive was a spur-of-the-moment decision made after Luke escaped from Vader. Vader suspected that they would go for the Falcon (easiest ship for them to use) and rescue Luke in it. Also, if the Falcon was destroyed or removed, Lando would have known about it. Its his city, after all. If the Falcon is intact, they're going to go for it, so they know which ship they've got Luke on, and can grab him while he's escaping. If they disabled the Falcon in an obvious manner, then Leia and Lando would end up using a different ship. Vader didn't order the hyperdrive disabled to prevent them from using it, he ordered it disabled because it was a trap.
      • But as Matt II mentioned, they could have "physically" disabled it from the inside, making it appear intact but unable to take-off. Problem solved.
      • If they had disabled it completely then they would have been unable to rescue Luke. Vader doesn't care about Leia and the others, but if they picked up Luke on a ship with no means of leaving the system it would make the real prize easy to catch.
      • Fair enough, that's logical, but wasn't there a way to completely wreck the hyperdrive? I know time was an issue, but couldn't they have removed certain vital components, making it impossible to repair?
      • Removing vital components would have been obvious; if Star Wars ships are anything like modern craft, the moment even a slight bit of gear is out of place a warning light flashes in the cockpit. Remove the components of one of the most vital systems on the ship, and you're going to get a big flashing trouble light on your consoles.
      • So remove the light too? And the flashing trouble with the trouble light light.
      • They've only got a limited amount of time to work, remember. Removing parts of the dashboard would have likely necessitated taking it apart, which they didn't have time for.
      • This line of discussion is based on an incorrect assumption. Check the timeline - the Falcon had escaped before Vader and Skywalker's final showdown. The Hyperdrive must have been deactivated before Luke had even landed, possibly so that in case he successfully rescued Chewie and the others rather than being lured into the freezing chamber or if he was able to evade Vader, he'd still be trapped. His X-Wing was probably similarly disabled immediately after he left it.
    • There's actually a very good reason to not wreck the hyperdrive in an obvious manner: leaving a clear escape route means that your enemy will take that escape route. Destroying a clear escape route will have him take a different route. Vader knows that if the Rebels escape, they'll go for the Falcon, which the Imperials can easily track and chase down. If he wrecks the Falcon in a manner that it's obvious that they can't use it, then they'll go to ground inside Cloud City and maybe try to escape some other way that he can't predict. Leaving the Falcon as a possible escape route means he can predict where they'll go, what ship they'll be on, and what he needs to chase down to recapture them.
    • I thought it was because Lando wanted the Millennium Falcon for sentimental reasons so Vader agreed not to destroy it.
    • Oh, and how did Lobot know the hyperdrive have been sabotaged, and how did he know exactly what was wrong with it?
      • IIRC, Lobot intercepted the order from Vader and forwarded it to R2.
      • Actually, R2 learned it from the city's central computer. There was probably a record in there because the Empire either used local techs (thus generating a work order), sourced local parts (thus generating a requisition/commandeering order), or simply logged that they'd disabled the hyperdrive as ordered using one of Cloud City's communication consoles (thus generating a communication log.) As a wise man once said, "The bureaucratic mentality is the one constant in the universe."
    • Guys... it was being repaired. You turn things off while repairing them, then on to check if they're fixed. Nothing mysterious here.
    • If nothing else, chalk it up to Anakin Skywalker's Complexity Addiction. Why go for the Mundane Solution when you can do something really clever or fancy? Hence why he allowed Princess Leia to escape in A New Hope (so he could follow her to the Rebel Base). The fact that it keeps biting him in the ass is because he's Anakin, whether he wants to admit it or not.
  • If mynoks are known for chewing the power cables then what for the first mynok Leia sees attacks itself to the window with the mouth open ? Mynok don't feed on glass, do they ?
    • "Known for" =/= "the only thing they do."
    • Maybe they actually eat space dust? Some of that would be on the windows, so mynoks would be like these aquarium-cleaning fish, whasser name?
    • Well, the inside of the Falcon is loaded with power cables, so presumably mynoks have some ability to sense the electricity but aren't smart enough to figure out that the glass is keeping them from getting to it.
  • On Bespin, Vader seems remarkably unconcerned that he's captured Leia, one of the most important political figures of the Alliance, who got away from him once before.
    • Because Vader's only concerned about Luke at that point.
  • Why does Han's years of working for Jabba not bother Leia? This guy has been working for years supporting a slave empire. And he never shows a shred of remorse for this. Sure he's done good helping the Rebellion, but making money for a slaver like Jabba seems like exactly the sort of thing Leia would abhor. Padmé is frequently criticized for marrying Anakin after he kills the sand people. And yet, that was a single act brought on by immense stress and trauma that Anakin clearly realized was wrong. Also, just as Han has done good in helping the Rebellion, Anakin has dedicated years of service to the Republic, saved Padmé's home planet and saved her life. But Leia is given a free pass for ignoring all the awful things Han has done.
    • Well, let's see. In the first movie, she started right off by insulting him, ordering him around, and dismissing him harshly when he decides to take his money and run. It's the more naive Luke who begs him to stay and help. The best she has to say to him when he does save the day is "I knew there was more to you than money." Second movie, he tries to pull an emotional ploy where he says he's leaving, and she basically acts like she doesn't care (and probably does believe that she doesn't care). She snarks at him all through the movie. Laser brain, nerf-herder, and they even have a rather charged scene while fixing up the ship in which she calls him a scoundrel and says she prefers nice men. So what happened? She fell in love with him despite herself and despite what he was. She didn't exactly fall into his arms swooning and declaring that she didn't care one whit what he was or what he'd done.
    • Well what has Han done? All we know from the movies is that he smuggled some stuff for Jabba. We don't know what the stuff is. We don't know what the circumstances were. And with the Empire in charge, I bet a lot of ordinary stuff gets smuggled just to avoid oppressive taxes and the like. So for all we know, Han just smuggled snacks for Jabba's palace. In which case, yeah, he's working with a bad guy, but he's not actually murdering people.
  • Why did Obi-Wan wait so long to tell Luke to go to Dagobah? Three years passed between the end of A New Hope and the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back. We see that Obi-Wan is able to communicate with Luke at the end of New Hope, when he tells him that the Force will be with him always. Why wait three years? After all, Yoda is old, so old that died of old age in Return of the Jedi, which is set one year after Empire. So they do not exactly have limitless time to spare. And they had to worry that Luke might get killed before getting to Dagobah; he almost did get killed by the Wampa on Hoth. So why waste three years?
    • Either they'd been hoping Luke would progress well enough on his own only for him to hot a wall with his self training, he'd hit the point in his training where falling to the dark side was more likely, or maybe Yoda decided it was time to check him out, perhaps sensing Vader's growing obsession with catching Luke?
      • Why would they have been hoping that Luke would progress well enough on his own? Even if he could develop his skills on his own, there is no way he would have simply rediscovered the Jedi code on his own. Also, Yoda had been used to training students much younger than Luke was in New Hope. In response to all three points, they do not really have anything to lose by bringing him to Dagobah earlier. Even if he could progress without help, even if he wasn't vulnerable to the Dark Side until then (can't anyone of any age fall to the Dark Side?), or even if Yoda had sensed Vader's growing obsession, what do they have to lose by bringing him to Dagobah sooner?
    • I assume that speaking from beyond the grave is an advanced technique which requires lots of energy and excellent circumstances. In ANH Obi-wan only gets a couple sentences through to Luke, when he might have preferred to tell him a lot more. He talks more freely on Dagobah, but I think he's only able to do so because Yoda is nearby and Yoda kinda gives him a boost. So if Ben was silent for three years, it wasn't necessarily by choice. It could just be that mystic cosmic forces prevented him from speaking up until that moment. (Heck, maybe the Emperor is casting some kind of anti-ghost spell which is hard to push through.)
      • He was able to have an extended conversation with Luke on Dagobah after Yoda had died. He was also able to give Luke the message to go to Dagobah on Hoth with no apparent difficulty. But even if he were, despite all evidence, limited in how often or how much he could communicate with Luke, at the end of New Hope, he told Luke "Remember, the Force will be with you always"; are we seriously to suppose that he could not just as easily have said "Go to Dagobah to train as a Jedi"? It's the same number of words and the same number of syllables, and seems like a much more important message. If there was such a limit on what he could tell Luke, why waste words on a vague reassurance rather than telling him to get his butt to Dagobah?
      • Well, the only times Obi-Wan communicates with Luke is when he's basically in an altered state of perception, the exception being on Dagobah. The first time, when he tells Luke to "Run," Luke's just watched Ben get killed, so Luke wasn't exactly in his best state of mind. Later, during the trench run, Luke's riding high on combat adrenaline, and about to make the most important shot of anyone's life, so he's again in a heightened state of awareness (and the message was important enough Obi-Wan would have put the full force of his Force behind it). When he tells Luke to go to Dagobah, Luke's literally on the verge of dying from hypothermia. Only on Dagobah does Obi-Wan seem able to manifest at will, which could partly be because, as mentioned, Yoda's Force presence is providing more energy for Ben to draw on, and after Yoda dies, he still leaves some residual energy behind. Granted, that gets into Legends EU stuff, where powerful Force-Users (particularly darksiders) leave behind residual traces when they spend a lot of time in or die in a specific place (Timothy Zahn advances the idea that the Dark Side cave on Dagobah exists because a powerful Dark Jedi died there). Also, by the time Luke begins to have long conversations with the ghost of Obi-Wan, he's grown much stronger in the Force, so that probably plays a role as well. So basically, maybe at first Obi-Wan had to wait until Luke was in an appropriately receptive state of mind to contact him again and not only tell him to go to Dagobah, to explain why he had to go there, and that didn't happen until Luke was dying on Hoth.
  • Return of the Jedi shows that there was a bounty on Chewbacca as well as Han. So why didn't Boba Fett take both Han and Chewie from Bespin?
    • Because he made a deal with Vader that apparently didn't involve Chewbacca. Vader breaks deals when it suits him. You breaking a deal with Vader means Vader breaks you. Therefore Fett is going to do the smart thing and get the easy payday then possibly go find a more interesting bounty. If you want to get into scheming, maybe Fett hopes that Chewbacca will escape from the Imperials and thus can be captured again (and might have an Imperial bounty that's worth more than the one Jabba posted). All he'd have to do is sit back and wait.
    • Who says the bounty on Chewie is the same bounty that was put on Han? Rot J is a year after the end of ESB. In that time Chewie and Lando are out trying infiltrate Jabba's Palace and rescue Han. Maybe the bounty was placed on Chewie because of something he did to try and rescue Han during that year.
  • So what would have happened if Luke didn't bring his weapons into the cave, or not fought Vader?
    • Maybe I'm being a bit dense but wasn't that a Battle in the Center of the Mind, with the Force attempting to show what path awaited Luke if he should kill the Emperor?
  • For that matter, what is the deal with the cave on Dagobah? All Yoda says about it is that it's a place strong in the Dark Side. Is it some kind of Genius Loci? Did something really bad happen there once, and now there's some kind of "Force haunting" going on? Was there any Expanded Universe explanation given for it?
    • The old Expanded Universe established that a powerful Dark Jedi was killed at the site, and tainted it with the Dark Side, which Yoda used to mask his presence. The new canon hasn't given an explanation yet.
  • Why didn't Han ever get around to paying off his debt to Jabba? Even if he joined the rebels, I don't see why he couldn't find the time to zip over to Jabba's palace, pay off the debt, and then head back to fighting the Empire. It wouldn't have taken that long, and this movie takes place years after A New Hope.
    • Several possibilities. First, Han's massive ego. He figures he can keep evading Jabba's goons indefinitely, so why part with the money if he doesn't have to? Plus, paying Jabba after all this would be a big hit to his pride. Finally, I imagine spite has a lot to do with it too.
      • I have to disagree with that. The first movie made it very clear Han was concerned about paying his debt to Jabba and intended to do so as fast as possible. The only thing that stopped him was he decided to help the Rebels destroy the death star.
    • It's implied that Han's been on the run with the Rebellion for the past few years, and it wasn't until he ran into a bounty hunter on Ord Mantel that he decided that getting Jabba off his back was a priority.
      • But paying off Jabba was shown to be a priority in the first movie. At the end he was going off to pay Jabba and only came back to help the rebels destroy the Death Star. So after he got his medal, why didn't he just tell them "okay guys, gotta go back to pay off Jabba now. See you in a few weeks."
  • Minor question: is the Executor's name and that of its class supposed to pronounced like the guy who simply carries out an order, or like the guy who actually kills people. I swear I've heard both pronunciations from different sources over the years.
    • Technically, the term for someone who kills people is "executioner" not "executor", so it is most likely referring to one who carries out tasks.
  • Vader kills Ozzel for coming out of hyperspace too close to they system. Except... why? Unless there's something I'm missing from Expanded Universe content, a surprise attack close to they system would seem perfect for catching the rebels with their pants down, rather than coming out far enough to be detected on radar and letting them plan a quick escape. And in either case, the rebels knew the Imperial fleet was coming because they realized they were being spied on by a probe droid, and started evacuating immediately afterwards on the (correct) assumption that the Empire would be headed straight towards them. So my question is, why does Vader see it fit to punish Ozzel for this?
    • "You have failed me for the last time, Admiral." Presumably, this wasn't the first time Ozzel had failed to do exactly what Vader wanted. Even if Ozzel had the right idea this time, it didn't suit Vader so *force choke*.
      • Vader was probably cheesed off at Ozzel already - earlier in the film, they get the feed from the probe droid that Han and Chewie engaged and Ozzel tries to argue with Vader over whether it's the system they want, saying it's probably just smugglers. Vader's already proven he doesn't like it when people disagree with him.
    • Part of it is Vader taking out his frustrations lethally, like any good Sith does, for the most part. He may not have known that a probe droid got intercepted and tipped off the Rebels (especially because the Empire LOVES using comms encryption that a protocol droid could recognize from a megalight away like a bunch of dopes), and attributed the shield being up to Ozzel's enthusiasm to jump the Rebels at the first opportunity, blowing whatever chance there might've been for a Rebel-ending bombardment out of nowhere. However, assuming that Vader wasn't just satisfying a desperate need to choke a bitch, it might be reasonable to assume that the shield wasn't spun up prior to the Star Destroyer fleet arriving with more concern given to mobilizing for the evacuation. By staying further out of the system when the fleet come out of hyperspace, they could've taken a standoff position around one of the other planets (the "Hoth" we know is only really Hoth VI) and picked off some of the early transports (which might arguably have the VIP leaders and materiel onboard) before they could communicate back that they were under fire, and also negated the force multiplier of the ion cannon. Then they could drop in the AT-AT squadron whenever they felt like it, and clean up the rest of the mess. By jumping in so close, they forced the Rebels into a higher defensive posture immediately, and then the ground assault (however impressive and one-sided it was) had to be the only way of getting the job done. Though because Vader wanted Luke so badly, he might've preferred the slow route, anyways. Any of y'all tried to resist a Force choke fetish? :P
    • They never really explain how sensors or stealth work in the Star Wars universe. We've had passing references to cloaking devices, and we see in Rogue One that the Rebels at least can detect sufficiently large objects approaching in Hyperspace. It's possible that they can only detect stuff in Hyperspace if it's close, and that ships can only cloak (whether that means turning invisible or simply hiding themselves from sensors like radar). Thus, your two options, it seems, are to drop out a safe distance away and sneak in all sneaky sneak like, or do a Hyperspeed Ambush and drop right on top of them. Admiral Ozzel seemingly tried for the latter but didn't quite pull it off, meaning they just made a big showy entrance without actually getting the drop on the Rebels.
  • Minor quibble, but at the start of the film, the Belligerent Sexual Tension between Han and Leia starts when he plans to leave Hoth to go pay off Jabba. What's the big deal? The guy's explicitly marked for death. His smuggling contacts are a valuable asset to the Rebellion, but not if he's dead, and it's not like he's saying he's not coming back.
    • Leia's still in denial about her feelings about Han at this point, and she's using "The Rebellion needs your help" as a cover story for "I want you to stay with me." Han calls her on that bull, and she gets angry, again as a cover for her feelings. Her real worry is that if Han leaves, he won't come back, though she would never admit it at the time.
  • Is it ever discussed as to how Luke knew exactly where to land on Dagobah, a planet we can safely assume is at least as large as Earth? I think he had some dialogue about detecting life signs or something similar, but (and my SW knowledge may fail me here), there must be other sentient forms of life on the planet, shouldn't there? Perhaps we can just say the Force did it, but I don't believe Luke ever mentions feeling drawn to the location or anything.
    • Well, it's generally been assumed that Yoda was specifically guiding Luke's X-wing (hence why his instruments had a blackout on his first arrival on Dagobah, but apparently not subsequent visits — this is actually mentioned in at least one other article).
    • What bugs me is why does everyone assume it is a fluke of Luke. Yoda is a semi-prescient Jedi Master with 19 years to set up camp, with a space ship should he need to go somewhere. I would think it was Yoda who went to where he knew Luke would crash.
      • Hmm perhaps, but that's an awful lot of prediction to do so far in the past and it still seems hard to believe he would have gotten the location so precise. I know that most of Yoda's predictions left much "gray area" as to particular outcomes, but then again, those predictions in questions tended to depend on the independent actions of people, which are near impossible to predict. Also, he could have just been in the ballpark area, so to speak, and simply walked a short distance when he saw the ship crash. It seems to be implied that Luke has been on the surface for some time before Yoda finally makes an appearance.
      • I was not saying he set up camp 19 years in advance. I was saying he had 19 years to have a vision of where Luke would go, get in the starship, move to that general location, and if necessary, guide Luke down to where he needed him. I was simply pointing out the flaw in putting the onus on Luke alone.
      • Regarding Dagobah, I always figured that, since Star Wars was originally conceived as a simple fairy tale (albeit IN SPACE!) the planets were stand-ins for relatively smaller areas: a planet-sized city is just a large city, and a "desert planet" or "swamp planet" are just a big desert and big swamp respectively. A space station the size of a "small moon" would just be the biggest fortress anyone had ever conceived.
  • Why is it that Darth Vader got into the habit of strangling admirals for minor setbacks? Not only is it unwise to kill off your most experienced commanders for failures that were no fault of their own, it is also likely to incite other officers to resign or defect to the Rebellion. This is even more strange when you consider that he was able to show restraint towards the official that dismissed the Force in the first film.
    • Because he's a baddie.
    • He is only shown strangling two officers in the movies, Ozzel and Needa. Context indicates that Ozzel has a penchant for disregarding Vader's precise instructions repeatedly, Vader asserts that Ozzel is "clumsy". You can also infer without guessing that Ozzel as Admiral was given specific instructions on the way to come out of hyperspace near the Hoth system, and that he had failed to follow instructions in the past hence: "This is the last time you fail me, Admiral." Needa was just a destroyer captain, and he willingly shuttles himself over to the Executor to apologize to Vader personally, Vader most likely killed him to show everybody else he won't tolerate giving him petty excuses, like letting a freight cargo escape three star destroyers when they had the numerical and technological advantage. It's worth noting that Piett was promoted to Admiral in place of Ozzel; and that Vader can acknowledge that they lost the Falcon on causes not attributable to any neglect from Piett, who gets to command the Executor up until its destruction during RotJ.
      • When Captain Needa was released, the officers on either side pulled him up to 'lead' him away instead of carrying him off like a corpse, and the way his body moved as they did so suggests strongly that he was not choked completely to death. Vader no doubt acknowledged that he did the right thing by going to face him directly to report the failure and taking full responsibility; you choke him out, give him an unpleasant experience to remember, and quietly shuttle him in your head into a promotion later.
      • Needa is confirmed to have died in various other sources. Him appearing to move was probably just an error on the actor’s part.
    • Vader suffers a bad case of Never Live it Down about this, since its not like he goes left and right killing people; he does however, intimidate and pressure people left and right; like he casually remarks to Motti that "the emperor is not as forgiving as he is".
    • Because he's like Stalin. First, he definitely has the power to do it, seeing as he doesn't really have to answer to anyone but himself and maybe the Emperor. Second, an officer's failure reflects badly on him, so by killing the offending officer, he severs the connection between him and the officer, essentially washing his hands of the mistake. Third, he was mad. REALLY mad.
      • Especially third. Vader's a veneer of icy control over an eternally seething core of pain-fueled epic rage. When regular people lose their temper, they scream. When Vader loses his temper, people die.
    • In the first movie, Tarkin was there to tell him to stop.
      • And it's fairly clear from other comments made by Leia that Tarkin actually outranks Vader ("holding Vader's leash"). They never explain exactly where "Lord" Vader falls in the Imperial chain of command, but apparently it's somewhere below Grand Moff.
      • In the EU, its explained that Vader's original official position was as the senior most officer of the Imperial military, second only to the Emperor. However, that was after Tarkin was dead. This troper presumes that Tarkin's dominance over Vader was either a) less a matter of official rank and more a matter of whose influence with the Emperor was greater at that moment in time or b) Tarkin, in addition to being a Grand Moff, was the prior occupant of the job the EU described Vader as holding.
      • It may just have been that Tarkin was the commander of the space station, and a very important one at that. Vader could get away with killing random underlings. It may be that Vader is always the ranking officer on any ship (such as the various Star Destroyers he kills people on) but the Death Star is a big deal. Much like how on Deep Space Nine, Sisko can yell at Admirals and Captains all he likes, despite technically being outranked, because it's his damn station.
      • In the EU, a Moff is a planetary Governor, and a Grand Moff is essentially the governor of an entire star sector. Tarkin is of a rank second only to the Emperor or a Senator, and with the Senate dissolved...
      • I always assumed it was because Tarkin was friends with Vader - he actually calls him his friend at least twice.
      • Lots of people call people 'my friend'. Many of those people aren't friendly, and I suspect that Tarkin may have been among them.
      • According to "The Secret History of Star Wars", Vader was initially envisioned as the Secretary of Defense, A politician who has control over the imperial military, but doesn't hold an actual rank (supposedly inspired by Henry Kissinger). Note that this only holds for the ANH, when ESB comes around George apparently changed his mind and made Vader an actual officer.
    • Ozzel actually was going to take over the ship... or at least try to.
    • Vader uses the Dark Side of the Force, which means he practices a religion based entirely on channeling one's fear, anger and hatred. While this may make one a fearsome opponent in a fight, it does NOT make one an effective leader. This, honestly, is probably a large part of the reason why the ragtag rebellion is able to defeat the Empire in the first place.
    • Quick note: Timothy Zahn, in the EU, recently brought this up. Captain Ozzel, later to become Admiral Ozzel, features in an adventure Mara Jade and Darth Vader were both involved in. During that adventure he proves himself to be corrupt, a coward, a crappy tactician, and the kind of nasty piece of work that the Empire's staggering level of bureaucracy breeds; a politician who knows how to inveigle his way into power and keep it and will sell out anyone over or under him to protect his power if he has to. Vader's been looking for an excuse to get rid of him for quite some time, and the terrible botch he made of GETTING VADER'S SON BACK (and keep in mind that more than anything else GETTING HIS SON BACK is an obsession that stokes Vader's deep irrational inner rage) was all the excuse he needed.
    • There is also the Alternate Character Interpretation that Ozzel is in fact working for the rebels or at least sympathizes with them, which has some merit. Captain Needa on the other hand was just Vader hitting the Berserk Button.
  • Battle of Hoth. Luke claims the armour on the AT-ATs is too strong for blasters, thus meaning the speeders have to trip them up with cables. We see one trip up then a pair of speeders shoot it with lasers...and it blows up. So... what happened to "that armour is too strong for blasters"?
    • There's a weak spot in their armour behind their heads.
      • What, so Luke "I used to bullseye Womp rats in my T-16 back home" Skywalker can't hit this spot of a huge machine that moves at about two miles per hour and has to have it come to a complete stop first?
      • First off, Luke is a dumb kid who's boasting. Second, womp rats aren't shooting back. Nor are their friends shooting back.
      • Also, in the official novelization by Lucas, right after Luke makes his "I used to bullseye womp rats" comment, Wedge's response is to thoroughly rip him on how useless that skill is in actual combat.
      • The weak spot is not exposed to any feasible approach vector. Blasters don't arc; the only way that Luke could have got a shot at the walker's weak point while it was walking was if he dived at it from directly above the walker. Which, suffice to say, would not have been very feasible.
      • Why not? There were no anti-air weapons on the thing's top or back.
      • Actually, the target he was aiming at could only be hit from the front. Where the AT-AT's blasters are located.
      • They spent most of the battle in front of the AT-AT anyway, and that still doesn't explain why they didn't just go above the plane of the AT-ATs and shoot down, or at least fly past then tow-cable. AT-A Ts have horrible neck articulation and can't aim up, there's no reason they couldn't have flown about 2-3x as high as they were in order to dodge attacks, then swooped down and hit the weak point from above.
      • The blasters on the AT-AT's heads are mounted on swivels. They don't need great neck articulation when the blaster can just rotate up and fire. And flying up too high wouldn't give them a good shot at the AT-AT's weak point.
      • In actual fact the target is where the neck connects to the body, which would require comming in over the top of the walker and diving down (30-45 degrees seemingly). It's unconfirmed, but it seems to this troper that hitting them from behind could be a viable option as well, as the few pictures I've seen seem to represent this area as being largely unarmoured.
    • On the DVD Commentary, Irvin Kershner admitted he fudged it because explosions are cool.
    • The place the AT-AT is hit before it explodes appears to be the top of the neck/back. From the looks of things, and from how they handle in the games, the Speeders can't do the sort of dive maneuver necessary to hit that sort of target while the AT-AT is standing up. Their movement seems to be fairly limited to moving laterally, and gradual climbing and diving compared to things like the X-Wing.
      • Wow, so suddenly an aircraft of the future can't handle anything like a modern one? Bull. Maybe the games can't deal with it, but I'm damn sure it'd be possible for a good pilot to make the shot, although steering through the blaster fire at the same time would be more difficult.
      • The snow speeders seem more like higher end versions of the land speeder personal vehicles than aircraft, based on how they perform. So think Humvee, not F14.
  • They're testing the carbon freezing process on Han. All they need is Han. Why don't they leave the rest of the gang in their cell? They even let Chewbacca carry the annoying thing that doesn't shut up along.
    • Vader was having Leia and Chewie taken to his ship. He simply brought them along so he wouldn't have to bother with hauling Han to the carbon-freezing chamber and then going back to get them and taking them all together. Saved him a trip.
    • Trip? Vader doesn't make trips. He has a legion of goons to do this stuff for him. Now, I wonder why he didn't take Han to be frozen and have the rest taken from their cell, directly to a cell on his ship.
      • Because Vader is evil, and making Leia and Chewie watch Han getting frozen gives him his evil jollies.
      • That, or he was being a nice guy and letting them say their goodbyes to their dear friend...
      • Let's not forget, the whole purpose of Vader taking Han and the others prisoner was to set a trap for Luke. And how did Luke find out they'd been captured? He sensed their pain through the Force. Vader wanted all the characters to feel as much emotional agony as possible, which is why he tortured Han. He knew Luke would sense the pain of Leia and Chewie watching their friend get frozen, and it would get him into his X-Wing and on his way to Bespin that much quicker.
    • If he had, they probably would not have gotten away, with Luke in tow to boot.
      • No, it wouldn't. Leia and Chewie's escape was predicated on Lando's rescue effort; it had nothing whatsoever to do with separating the two groups. In fact, Lando only acted to rescue Leia and Chewie once they were separated from Vader and Boba Fett, so moving them in a separate group from Han would have only made Lando act sooner, which in turn might have led to a complete aversion of Vader's trap for Luke and Leia, Chewie, and Lando getting to Fett before he got back to Slave I, thereby potentially rescuing Han.
    • Plus it's a way to spread fear to those who would oppose the Empire. "We don't even care about this guy, we're just using him to test this thing, that's how easy it is for us to risk the live of people like you so get in line, or you'll be next into that pit. And your Wookie can rage and scream all he wants, but we don't even consider that worth the effort of shooting him."
      • The power and ruthlessness of the Empire was pretty well established. Surely, they were still talking about Alderaan.
      • This group has narrowly escaped them all over space until they laid this trap. Gathering them together to witness Han's freezing is begging for trouble.
      • They were under extremely heavy guard and had no way to escape without outside intervention. In fact, they didn't escape without outside intervention, even when Luke distracted the Stormtroopers the first time.
  • What is the reason behind Obi-Wan's claim that he can't interfere if Luke confronts Vader? I know he can't physically do anything, but I imagine seeing the ghost of his former friend would be a good way to distract Vader when things got bad. Was he letting Luke make his own mistakes, or did he just not feel like a trip to Bespin?
    • Force ghosts only show up for sensitive individuals, but in this case he just meant that he can't pull Luke's fat out of the fire.
    • Moreover, it's possible that Anakin just can't sense Force Ghosts. He couldn't sense Qui-Gon begging him not to kill the Sand People either. Or dark siders can't sense Force Ghosts, at any rate.
  • So how is it that Luke so readily believes Darth Vader's claim of him being his father? First of all, the only sort of info he has on the guy, Save for any news casts, are a couple sentences by an old man who died less than 3 years before? Second, if some guy claimed he was your father, I'm sure you would be questioning the validity of the claim.
    • Weren't you paying any attention? He searched his feelings and knew it to be true via the force. Also, even if he wasn't completely convinced, Obi-Wan's Force Ghost kinda confirmed it when next they spoke.
  • The Falcon is hiding on top of a Star Destroyer, Threepio is terrified beyond words and Leia's response is to reach over and TURN HIM OFF. Not cool. He's supposedly your friend, but when he annoys you even a little, you just shut him down. This scene made me lose all sympathy for Leia.
    • Why? It's not like it hurts him or anything.
      • No it doesn't, and on top of that it prevents the massive argument brewing between the droid and Han, and on top of that he was suggesting surrender.
    • What's wrong with turning him off? And how else was she going to shut him up after he starts ranting and panicking? In real life, you would likely have smacked or otherwise subdued a comrade who was acting that irrational.
    • Also, remember earlier in either the first movie or Empire, 3P0 offers to turn himself off if they won't be needing him for a while. Turning a droid off is clearly not a big deal. All Leia did was give him an enforced nap instead of having him panic and screw something up.
      • If 3PO turning himself off is akin to him taking a nap, then Leia turning him off is essentially like knocking him out. Still, I believe that droids are often treated like second class citizens in the Star Wars universe. Even kind and compassionate Obi-Wan isn't particularly disturbed when R4 is destroyed (and in the novel, he often tells Anakin to refer to R2 as "it", not "him"). I think Luke and Anakin are unusual in that they consider droids to be more equal that others do.
      • That's because in the Star Wars 'verse, Droids aren't citizens. They're tools and properties. Leia turning off C-3P0 is, to them, exactly the same as you turning off your computer when you're done with it or it's acting up, regardless of how ridiculously human he is.
      • Droids aren't sapient. They do a pretty good impression of sapience, but they are not sapient. Everything about them is built to serve their master, they exist only to please. They are programmed with fear to avoid being damaged. They kinda have personalities, but then so do The Sims.
      • In that case why does Padme have a ceremony to honor and acknowledge R2-D2 at the end of EP 1 ? That would be like President giving a metal to a Predator Drone for taking out a terrorist.
      • There have been a 'few' independent droid in the franchise, among them HK-01, HK-47 (in the Rebellion era), G0-T0, IG-88 (and IG-72) and 8t88. It's also to be noted that most droids tend to develop personalities if they go without memory wipes for a few years (like R2-D2 and C-3PO).
  • Why don't the Imperials manage to locate the Falcon while its in the asteroid, I mean it flew down a hole a good 50 freakin' meters across, are you trying to tell me that none of the pilots even saw the thing?
    • They probably did find the hole, eventually, but by that point that space slug was likely already there, and their sensors showed it (keep in mind that Imperial war machines likely have more consistently reliable tech than the cobbled-together Falcon). The idea that the Falcon was inside the slug as anything other than digested dinner likely didn't occur to them.
      • Except that Star Destroyers can detect life-signs (it's seen within the first like 5 minutes), so why not put a couple of fighters down to check on them (they have no trouble with wasting the things in other situations).
      • You mean the asteroid they flew into after all the fighters following them were destroyed? The Imperials didn't know they were in that specific asteroid, they were bombing everything to scare the Falcon out.
Except that like 95% of the other asteroids weren't even big enough to contain the Falcon, let alone having handy caves.
  • Yeah, no. There were a lot of big asteroids.
  • Oh lots of big ones, yes, but very few 'big enough' to hide in (certainly not to obscure a SD's sensors). Besides, it doesn't change the fact that none of the convenient caves were actually investigated.
  • How do you know how many asteroids were large enough to hide the Falcon? It's not like we are given a full analysis of the asteroid field, we just see the one that they fly to. There could be thousands of other suitable rocks out there which aren't shown because they are irrelevant to the plot. And even assuming that the TIE fighters can detect life-signs, there is a giant space worm down there which presumably has life signs of its own.
  • Well going from the movie, the asteroid can't be less than several km across (seen here◊ that worm has a diameter of at least 200m based on the size of the Falcon), which would make it kind of noticeable against a background of <1km objects, rather like a cement truck in a carpark. As for detecting them, the Imperials don't seem to be concerned about wasting fighters, so why not just fly a couple into the cave? No, the way they play it, it's all too obvious that they just didn't want the Imperials to find the Falcon just yet, regardless of whether or not it actually makes sense.
  • So they fly a couple of fighters into the cave, see that there's a giant space worm there and nowhere for a ship to hide, and then fly out. As someone said above, the idea that the Falcon would hide inside the worm probably didn't occur to them (or to anyone on board the Falcon for that matter, as soon as they realize where they are they decide to take their chances in the asteroid field). Also, it's difficult to judge the size of all the asteroids given that all we have to compare them to are other asteroids - a giant rock a long way off looks a lot like a small rock close up. Plus we only saw a small part of the asteroid field during the chase sequence, it's not like every large asteroid needs to appear in the background somewhere. I'll grant that most of the rocks were probably too small, but we simply have no way of knowing exactly how many suitable hiding places there were.
  • Except that they'd pick up the Falcon in an instant because they be flying into the mouth of the worm the same way it did. On the size of the asteroids, only passive sensors could be fooled by size and distance variations, active sensors couldn't (they work on time delays), and a SD definitely has active sensors. And as for having too many asteroids choose from, bull, they've been chasing them up to then, the moment they disappear off sensors the SD will get their last recorded position and find the nearest big asteroid in the vicinity (which would just happen to be the one they're hiding in).
  • The only way that the Falcon would be visible from outside of the worm's mouth is if the worm was lying perfectly straight and has a perfectly straight digestive system, and even then the pilots would be looking for something a long way off, in a place they would never expect to see it, in near-total darkness. As for the size of the asteroids, I wasn't saying that the Imperials wouldn't be able to tell what size they are, I was saying that you don't know what size they all are. This whole argument rests on your claim that none of the other asteroids were big enough to hide the Falcon. Note that Han talks about "going in closer to one of the big ones", not "the big one" so clearly there were other options, and he is not shown as having any problem finding one so they presumably aren't that rare.
  • You're all forgetting that a number of asteroids also have metals that make sensors useless (in EU Canon—makes sense, too). And being inside a life form will obscure sensors even more, if it were passible. The fact is that the asteroid field has probably a number of large asteroids, and a significant number of large asteroids that can host a ship inside of them—if you assume that the asteroid field is composed of asteroids that fit a distribution that we are familiar with, then yes, there are very definitely many asteroids that the Falcon can hide in.
  • When Luke first goes to Yoda for training Obi-wan urges Yoda to help Luke by pointing out that he, Obi-wan, was also reckless in his youth. So where exactly is that ever shown in the prequel movies? In the first movie he's practically the moderate voice to Qui-Gon's attitude of clashing with the rules. Admittedly by this point Obi-wan has been training for quite some time, but if he was studying with Qui-Gon shouldn't that have made him more reckless?
    • Remember that jump through the window to catch a droid in AOtC?
      • Plus Obi-Wan's probably referring more to his time before he was a Padawan, just a student at the academy. Considering in ESB he mentions that Yoda taught him, I imagine Obi-Wan was more reckless as a child and then lesson from Yoda, maybe even personal one to one lessons, turned him into the straight laced, by the book character we see in TPM.
    • How about Obi Wan defying the Jedi council to train Anakin even though everyone except Qui-Gon thought it was a bad idea? Promise or not, that was a big leap for him. He might have been punted out of the Order for it. There was also the time in the bar in Clones when they were chasing the assassin where he allows her a free shot at his back in order to draw her out.
  • Regarding Yoda's "mind over matter" philosophy that he preaches to Luke. The way that he tells Luke that if you can envision it with your mind and eliminate all mental barriers in your mind saying, "I can't do this.", then you will be able to do it, bugs me.
    • First off no amount of telling yourself that you can do something is going to make it so, Luke for example can't tell his mind, "I can destroy the Emperor and I can kill him in so and so manner." and then the Emperor drops dead. Of course you can argue that Yoda was saying that he was talking about tapping into the Force and the only way you can access levels of the Force thought impossible is if you open up your mind to the will of the Force, it isn't your mind that does the work but the Force working through you. However the problem with that is that Yoda has been practicing the Force for literally hundreds of years, the amount of time he has had to quiet his mind, meditate and concentrate himself to listen to the will of the Force should make him some sort of Force wielding God that could destroy entire armies with a thought. Clearly there has to be some sort of barriers when it comes to accessing the Force.
      • Yoda never tells Luke that by imagining something he can do literally anything, it was more along the lines of "if you're convinced that you're going to fail, then you're going to fail". The main scene involving this idea was when Luke tried to pick his X-Wing out of the swamp - Luke decides that it's impossible and thus fails, but Yoda knows it can be done and so succeeds. This doesn't rule out the possibility that there would be tasks for which Luke would be right to conclude that it would be impossible, but in this case it clearly was possible and Luke needs to learn the right mindset rather than giving up right away. This kind of thinking is important to some extent in real life tasks, and when dealing with magic powers controlled through mental abilities it's likely to be even more important.
      • Yeah, but that is only one part of Yoda's lesson. The other part of the argument that he tells Luke is that size matters not, that you need to eliminate the restrictions in your mind that tell you that just because whatever you are facing is bigger than you that you can't do it, that Luke shouldn't judge Yoda's power by his physical size. This applies to using the Force in that you need to remove the restrictions in your mind that there are things that are unmovable, there is no object that is totally unmovable if you allow the Force to flow through you and that if you do that the Force will allow you to overcome those natural limits since while we can't do everything the Force is an energy that binds the galaxy together and thus can. This is clearly showcased by Jedi like Galen Marek who reaches out in the Force to rip a Star Destroyer, which is a mile long battleship, out of the sky, by Yoda himself who throws star ships around like they are nothing, and Luke himself at the pinnacle of his power in the Force was able to manipulate the gravity of a freaking BLACK HOLE, which need I remind everyone is a gravitational hole in the fabric of space-time that can suck up entire worlds and stars alike. Clearly when he said size matters not, Yoda meant it.
      • The "throwing around starships" and "manipulating black holes" bit might play into the whole "is EU canon" debate here, as the movies don't indicate things can get that insane. As was mentioned in a previous IJBM, the Force still follows Newtonian law (which is why Jedi can't fly under their own power), so while size matters not when lifting an X-Wing or bringing down a Star Destroyer, it's still physically impossible for Jedi to throw planets around, for example.
    • And secondly the concept of the midiclorians throws a wrench in Yoda's theory. It is established that these micro-organisms in every living being is what allows them to hear the will of the Force, so the more of them you have the easier it should be for you to hear the will of the Force and tap into its power. This explains why the Skywalker clan is so gifted in using the Force, Anakin and his descendants have the midiclorians in such abundance that they are able to hear, understand, and wield the Force at a faster pace than a normal Force user. This doesn't necessarily mean that your average peon couldn't reach the level that the Skywalkers are at but not having as many midiclorians means that they would have a harder time reaching that pinnacle. On this note this aspect of the Force upsets me when I hear people say Vader can't become stronger than Darth Sidious due to his lack of organic mass due to his injuries, sure he can he would just have to work all that much harder to reach the potential that he once had of becoming twice as powerful as Emperor Palpatine.
      • Can't speak for everything there, but how I understood it was that Darth Vader was less powerful not because he didn't have as much body mass, but rather because his injuries literally capped his power. Heck, Palpatine could've seen to it that his suit acted as a Power Limiter (I'm not sure if I picked that idea up somewhere else or not), but that's more a WMG.
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