What's the deal with Julius? Is he from an alternate dimension?
Late in the game, Ludger has to kill Julius. He does so but this somehow winds up sending him to an alternate dimension where he meets what I assume is Julius' alternate self and kills him as well. So... does this mean that he was from an alternate dimension all along? And why does Ludger comment that his pocket watch is Julius in a skit following it all? Nothing in this scene makes any kind of sense to me...- I dunno if you actually played the game or only played the Japanese so here's why: You see Julius is actually turning into a divergence catalyst (The one that Ludger has to destroy in every fractured dimension) due to overuse of his Chromatus power. When Ludger kills his brother, both end up in another dimension that Julius created (assuming he used up his last power for it) so that the prime dimension doesn't get destroyed.
- Now for the watch question. Yes, in the prime dimension the watch ACTUALLY belongs to Julius. Both gold and silver watches. But the gold watch somehow merges with Elle's. In Chapter 7, Julius wants the watch back but wasn't sure if Elle's telling the truth but he's convinced when Elle somewhat accidentally brought Alt! Milla to the prime dimension. This also hinted that Ludger is NOT using his Chromatus power by using Elle's watch, it's actually Elle's power that's giving the Chromatus power to Ludger.
- Um actually the gold watch is officially supposed to be Ludger's. Julius's official watch is the silver one I believe. Julius's kept Ludger's it to increase his power and probably as another measure to prevent Ludger from becoming involved with Origin's trial.
- And to answer your question about why Ludger says the silver watch is Julius, it's a symbolic thing since it stopped when Julius dies and gives Ludger what he needs to be able to defeat Chronos. Plus at this point, Ludger's probably desperate to cling onto something to deal with his grief.
How did Victor evade charges while setting up a house at Lake Epsilla?
Willingly living at the murder site of most of the original party would seem suspicious to anyone with common sense. Also, some of the people killed were very famous, like the prime minister of Rieze Maxia and the leading Spyrite researcher. It's highly doubtful that people in the government like Gaius would let him off that easily once they get that seed of suspicion. Even if he took over as CEO of Spirius, his connections might not be enough to get the Rieze Maxian government off his tail.- You really need to talk to the NPC's in that timeline. Gaius's body is in terrible shape by that time and it's implied that Full Chromatus Victor did it when he killed the other five, which would make identifying him pretty tough. Also considering how powerful Spirius is, it's enough to muddle the case at least.
- Another theory is that Victor set his house on Lake Epsilla after killing the party member in which he pretends to set a house there to find the killer there. (and probably take care of Elle at the same time). He might have cover up all evidence against him by killing 'witness' and hide his true identity so no one could suspect him. It is likely that the people who were about to assassinate Victor in the beginning of the game wants to kill him even they don't have proof he done it.
How does Ludger use the friendship potions?
Does he just give them to the other party members? Does he cook it in the food he feeds the party member of his choice? Or does he pour it all over himself and go like 'YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE ME.'??- I'd chalk that up to a quick-and-easy gameplay shortcut - trying to explain it's effects in-story would be difficult at best; exactly how do you make a potion that causes an instant increase in affection in the first place, let alone explain how it works?
Semi-good Ending
How does Ludger meeting Lara Mel Marta again in the prime dimension and marrying her, which would lead to the birth of Elle, exactly lead to the same tragedy that Victor (his alternate counterpart) experienced?- Because the Bad Ending shows that Ludger can (and very easily could) go down the same dark path, becoming obsessed with protecting what matters most to him instead of letting go, damn the consequences - he could do the same with Prime!Elle further down the line, just as Victor did, doomed to repeat the cycle.
About the Good Ending
- What would happen to the Prime!Elle or the soul that would become eventually become Prime!Elle now that the Elle that was traveling in with the party is residing in the prime dimension?
- Maybe her soul just didn't exist before her conception. Or maybe she'll be incarnated as a different person.
About the Prime and Fractured Dimensions
- If fractured dimensions are not destroyed, eventually, the prime dimension is destroyed. If this comes to pass, would this cause a fractured dimension to become the 'new' prime dimension, meaning the cycle repeats itself? Or would there simply be no prime dimensions? Would the prime dimension's destruction cause all fractured dimensions to cease to exist, too? And can a fractured dimension create another fractured dimension?
The Bad Ending
- Exactly why is it considered such a Bad Ending? Certainly, Ludger just killed the Xillia party, which included the Prime Minister and King of Rieze Maxia, as well as freaking Lord of Spirits Milla Maxwell, too. That will have consequences, of course. And Julius is still afflicted with turning into a catalyst, but Bisley is in Canaan and has someone, who will become the millionth catalyst with him. And he said that, after a wish is fulfilled, all crystal transformations stop. Sure, Bisley will wish for a world with no spirits, but this could put Rieze Maxians and Elympions onto the same page finally - Elympions cannot use spirit artes, but neither can the Rieze Maxians. It could certainly lead to both countries getting together and finally figuring out a way how to survive in their world, without the reliance on spirits. If anything, this feels more like a Bittersweet Ending, with heavy emphasis on the bitter part.
- I believe Bisley wanted to have all the spirits be stripped of their freewill and become pretty much become tools of humanity that simply keep the world going instead of treating them like living beings who have their own will, emotions and thoughts, not getting rid of them in general.
- If million catalysts are made, doesn't humanity technically speaking failed the trial? Even if Julius was healed, unless Origin decides to be lenient to Bisley like what he did in Elle's ending, humanity is doomed.
- Humanity only loses the trial if the 1 million is reached before the wish is granted.
- Getting the wish doesn't stop the transformations, unless you wish for that. That was the whole question in the normal endings after all, what to wish for. Two more people have to become catalysts to hit 1 million and that would stop the transformations. But considering at that point the possibilities are Ludger, Julius, Bisley and Elle, Bisley isn't going to turn and Ludger doesn't even know about the whole thing, Julius is doomed.
Fractured Dimension Selves
- The Fractured and Prime dimension version of the same cannot exist in the prime dimension, okay. But does this honestly work for Alt Milla and Victor? Considering Alt Milla is vastly different from Prime Milla in that her personality and way of growing up are nothing alike and that Alt Milla has lost her position as Lord of Spirits, would she still count as the same 'Milla' in the prime dimension? Milla herself didn't disappear because Alt Milla appeared, after all; she was shoved into the dimensional abyss by Chronos, apparently. The same goes for Victor. He is an older version of Ludger, with a different Chromatus and further advanced. Doesn't this mean that Alt Milla sacrificing herself to bring Prime Milla back turned it into a Stupid Sacrifice? And made Victor's plan pointless and unnecessary, since he would not have disappeared from the prime dimension, because he is so different from that Ludger?
- Two are basically the same person (with tweaks background) so it's count.
How Ludger was actually able to kill The Party in the Bad Ending
- This troper doesn't understand how Ludger could possibly beat the ENTIRE XILLA 1 CAST, Gaius and Muzet without dying. Ludger isn't more skilled than the party who (with the exception of Elize) have been fighting and training longer than he has. Ludger's powers may be broke but there is no way that he could be able to take on Milla Maxwell, 5 Great Spirits, King Gaius, The Conductor, two Martial Artists, a Trained Mercenary and an Enhanced Child. All of these people attack him at once. Putting aside the fact that it is eight on one (twelve if you count the Four), those are all incredibly powerful individuals. If you wanted to argue that Ludger could take each of them in a one-on-one, then while I might not agree with you in regards to certain individuals, I could maybe suspend my disbelief for that. But all of them? At once? I don’t care how “hax” Ludger’s power is supposed to be, nor do I care how upset he is. That’s simply not possible to me, from a realistic standpoint considering the parameters set in this universe with regards to those characters. It seems more like a forced and contrived convenience to say "Wow Ludger is such a Badass he can kill the Whole Party" really it is more like a light novel. Where the Character is only a "Badass" So the player can project themselves onto them.
- The point is the party has no intention to 'kill' him while Ludger has an intention and willing to do so including throwing his life away as he properly went Ax-Crazy at that point. Victor also did manage to do this in his dimension. There is also Chromatus's body enhancement and healing factor (If you remembered Victor himself got gundown by the whole group of agents and survived) to keep him going.
- Look closely at the cutscenes when Ludger and Victor go full out; they're so good that they block each other's bullets while moving. That's the normal skill level, enough to handle three different weapon styles at once, skilled at all of them - the Chromatus is an entirely different power level granted by Spirits higher than Lord Maxwell him/herself (let alone Muzet or the Four Great Spirits). In the Bad Ending's cutscene, this fully allowed him to meet and attack all eight of them at once... and those were just brief skirmishes, where the Chromatus' only limit is the person's body (outside of gameplay). In addition, most of the Xillia cast are normal humans, despite wielding artes/weapons/skills - only Milla and Muzet are not, but they are still spirits that have taken human form, and therefore have human weakness (whether killing them did so for real, or 'merely' dissipated the masses of mana that were their human forms). In the end it would be difficult, incredibly exhausting... but possible...
- That...still doesn't make sense because Ludger is coming at them with the intention of killing. They would all be going all out, especially if he killed even one of them. As for Victor, it is never stated if he killed them at once, if he thought them separately or in pairs, so that is a kind of vague. it is also shown that Victor had a full Chromatus, but Ludger only had a level 2 at that part in the story, so him fighting on par with Victor made no sense. Also the Ax-Crazy thing makes even less since because then he would be wide open for any type of hit and blow, seeing as how his skills would actually be diminished from Lack of coherent thought. The Chromatus may be a gift that is granted to the Kresnik clan by a stronger spirit, but still realistically in the context of the Story, it wouldn't be strong enough to handle Lord Maxwell and 5 Great Spirits. And then on top of that Ludger is still a normal human himself, like King Gauis, despite having all this power. From an in story point of view, he wouldn't survive that battle realistically, in the context of the Xillia Universe. The Bad Ending tries to present this as a "Quick and Effortless" Battle for the Stu/Player Insert Ludger, but it is clearly breaking established Power settings. It makes no sense. Down to the wire.
- Victor is no where near in good condition when they fighting against him. Justified as he has been suffering from Divergence Catalyst for a very long time as well as it's cause his mental issue as well (and he still get an upperhand anyway until Elle and DC both screw him). Power-level wise Chromatus (Which has its setback) is strong enough to fight against Great Spirit, Going from plot pov, the party still has a hard time dealing with Chronos while Bisley can beat him without a sweat and they can't even beat him until Ludger unlock his 4th Level. The "Quick and Effortless" is Jossed, the screen after the fight clearly shows that while Ludger won the fight he doesn't curb stomp them as it was already night time which mean the battle actually last pretty long contrast to his duel with Julius. And to remind you that this ending is "non-canon" this never actually happen but is it possible? Maybe. (Say Leon in his route).
- It never was stated that Victor killed all of them at once, but he did kill all of them (save Gaius apparently, but he was crippled). Also, you assume being Ax-Crazy would make him open to blows, because he's not operating at peak condition or rational thought - there's no evidence that's the case in all instances here. Victor was Ax-Crazy, weakened from becoming a Divergence Catalyist, yet still fought at peak-for-weakened-state power, enough to basically match Ludger's lvl 2 Chromatus + the party (except when he got stabbed at the very end). Similar applies to Ludger in the Bad Ending, because they are the same person: he's a man who's been pushed over the edge, with only one goal: protect his brother, which means killing them all... and unlike Victor, he is not weakened in any meaningful way by that point. That would focus his adrenaline, sharpen the reflexes/skills, and so forth... and where it was presented that it was 'quick and effortless'? Ludger was bleeding in said ending, completely unmoving out of apparent exhaustion (until Julius's pain got his attention), and nothing says he did so that easily - not to mention, all logic says it was an intense battle. Speaking of which, Ludger is a regular human, but as we saw from Victor when he got shot down in the beginning, the Chromatus can brush off fatal wounds fairly easily (seen by the bullets 'falling' out of his body), and Ludger was no doubt using it a lot, if not near-full-time... the others cannot say the same thing for their mortal wounds. And even if Ludger is facing Maxwell and Five Great Spirits, if Ludger can dodge all their attacks in either form (look at Ridueax, who did the same thing when Milla was released), that power isn't a guarantee for the party... a great effort to overcome, but not an impossibility... which basically applies to the whole fight itself.
- This Troper remembers that Ludger is just standing still covered in light blood, not his own blood. The light amount of blood insinuates that the fight did not take that long. and to think that Ludger could dodge all 5 Great Spirits, 6 if you count Muzet there as well, while fighting the entire Xillia Cast and Gaius, at the same time, is ludicrous. The whole Ending is crazy in somehow stating that Ludger would somehow still be alive, because even though Chromatus shakes off bullets, I doubt it would shake off multiple wounds that would be causing death to him. Heck we know that Milla, Gaius and Muzet would be fighting to kill and that alone is really more than enough to take down Ludger in the terms of the actual universe. But Xillia 2 doesn't care about actual in game characters powers and established parameters. They changed everything so that Ludger could all of a sudden be more powerful than the entire party because of his "Hax" powers, but I don’t care how “hax” Ludger’s power is supposed to be, nor do I care how upset he is. That’s simply not possible to me, from a realistic standpoint considering the parameters set in this universe with regards to those characters. I’m sorry, but there is no conceivable way he can win this and still be a believable character within this universe. It simply is not believable even a little bit. But of course, Ludger is a Self-insert/Gary Stu character, so him being able to win for no other reason than existing allows him to win. He was literally conceived to be the player’s self-insert power fantasy, and so the player has to be all powerful at all times. What better way to make the dudes playing feel powerful than to give them a guy that can beat down all of the above? It is the ultimate power fantasy this series has to offer, actual story and character integrity be damned. There’s no other way it makes sense.
- How can the fight doesn't last long? Considering the environment around and you would see it. Also, a reminder that Great Spirits themselves in this universe aren't practically god or invincible and can easily get themselves killed if they get a direct hit. Considering 2 of the strongest spirits get owned by a normal humans in both games. Not to mention Ludger also goes 75% Chromatus for the first time as well.
- No Great Spirits are not invincible in the Xillia Universe but they are extremely powerful beings capable of godlike feats. Sealing away worlds, ruling over all the elements, controlling time, traversing the dimensional boundaries etc etc. the only spirit we see get owned is Chronos, since Maxwell was actually crushing the party just fine in Xillia 1 until Milla showed up and basically weakened him, thus allowing for Gaius and Muzet to come in and fight and restrain a tired Maxwell. But in the Bad Ending everyone is at their top conditions. Sure the Chromatus regenerates Ludger I doubt it can keep up with how quickly he would actually be getting damaged. His power up still shouldn't matter since he is losing to Bisley and to Chronos again in the end of the game. The Bad Ending and really the whole game just hypes up and over powers the Chromatus for the sake of Ludger never losing. This Troper agrees with the Original Troper. It just isn't possible in the context of the Xillia Universe. But hey, not like Xillia 2 actually paid any attention to what Xillia 1 did since it Retcons most of the stuff.
- Not much was actually Retconned, aside from the spirit clime thing... and anyway, Ludger only loses to Chronos because of his time-rewind ability, when otherwise he overpowered him once he got strong enough. Bisley had a lot of strength and the power of Origin through Elle, and therefore enough power to overpower Ludger's Chromatus... BUT without it, Ludger could quite possibly match him, even before Lvl 4 Chromatus then completely overpowers him. It is entirely conceivable that Ludger could kill the entire party, not all at the same time but over a period of time, in such context (the lack of blood is more of a discretion thing; it's not completely indicative, especially since by that logic, stabbing someone for their catalyst should get more blood than we're shown). Especially since for the Great Spirit's he's facing - Milla and Muzet - he would just need to destroy their bodies, which would disperse their spirit essence (as they are in human/humanesqe form). They are powerful, but they aren't invulnerable; even Chronos isn't, because he relies on his time-rewind to heal damage, rather than nullifying it from the start.
Destroying the Fractured Dimensions
- So they wish Origin to destroy all the Fractured Dimensions. Apparently they lost their moral objections to destroying other worlds to save their own now they're not doing it themselves. But the bigger question is, does that really save their world? In both normal endings, at least one person becomes a catalyst after the dimensions are destroyed and there are still descendants of Kresnik who can use the chromatus and turn into more catalysts. Doesn't the ending just restart the whole mess from the beginning?
- They never lost their moral objections - Origin's simply the only one who could do it in time (and efficiently), so they'd just want to get it over with. As for the catalysts, Origin said he'd destroy all fractured dimensions, and he did - even when Elle or Ludger became them, they didn't become fractured dimensions; just vanished completely. This obviously made them the last ones included to destroy in Origin's efforts, since it would take a little time to do so. As for the Kresniks, that depends. The Chromatus was granted to the Kresnik family as part of Origin's Trial... which one way or another, they just ended. It could have been taken from the Kresnik line, as there would no longer be any need for the Chromatus, since it's purpose was a 'test of power' and the ability to destroy fractured dimensions (ie no longer needed). If not... well the reason so many Kresnik's abused the power was because of the wish of Origin's Trail, which again they just completed... the only one left (that we know of) is Elle, who may/may not have the power herself, and wouldn't use it anyway if she did. In the Semi-Good Ending, this would restart the problem, because of the Victor implication... but in the True Ending, the last (known) remaining Kresnik would have no interest in using it anyway, because she wants to live to honor Ludger.
- Minor nitpick but there is other surviving members of the Kresnik Clan outside the named characters, they were simply not powerful enough and not well-known enough to be worth mentioning unless you talk to the NPCs in the Spirius Building thus Elle isn't the last of the Kresnik Clan.
How did Elle not recognize Ludger as her father, Victor, from the very beginning?
- You would think that Elle knew who Ludger was from the beginning of their meeting. I assume Victor had his mask off at some point for Elle to see his face once in awhile, so how is it possible Elle couldn't put two and two together?
