troperville

tools

toys

Wiki Headlines
It's time for the second TV Tropes Halloween Avatar Contest, theme: cute monsters! Details and voting here.

main index

Narrative

Genre

Media

Topical Tropes

Other Categories

TV Tropes Org
random
Headscratchers: Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • As a fan of KotOR 2's excellent writing, I'm quite disappointed to see almost no mention of this game. Apart for the tale of the Exile after he left, it seems like fundamentally important characters like Kreia or Atris are completely left out. Even worse, when I read the Homage line, it talked about characters created by Bioware like Carth or HK-47 but nothing made by Obsidian. Do I miss something or is Bioware really not taking into account the work made by another company? That would be quite petty but it's the fan who is talking.
    • I'm still holding out hope that we'll learn more when we actually play the game. But still, its been 300 years, and most of the events of the second game were kept private. Part of Kreia's schtick was erasing herself from history, and Atris was a crazy hermit who died alone. So we might get hints here and there, but don't expect too much.
    • As you say, KOTOR 2 was made by a different company. Negotiating the rights to use someone else's intellectual property is always tricky (and bear in mind that KOTOR was written as a standalone piece - the sequel idea was something that LucasArts came up with, and handed over to Obsidian), and can get very ugly later on, if the second party decide they don't like what you're doing, regardless of what papers have been signed. So considering the scale of SWTOR, I expect Bioware is just being vague about the canon-as-added-by-Obsidian to avoid potential future conflicts with the other company.
    • Well, one of the 3rd tier Archaeology missions is finding writings by Jedi Master Mical, so not all mention of KOTOR 2 is gone. Besides, the Jedi Exile is also in the game as a Force Ghost, and she has a name now.
    • Not even close, there are major plot points building from deleted content of KOTOR 2 even.
      • In the Sith Warrior storyline, someone who is heavily implied to be Kreia appears in force ghost form.
    • Actually, it's worth noting that Bioware was the one to suggest to LucasArts that Obsidian make KOTOR 2. LucasArts themselves explicitly asked Obsidian not to play the original game before delivering their original story pitch, so as to avoid possibly retreading the same ground. It's been mentioned that while both companies were free to develop the story, LucasArts had the final say and would ask certain changes be made in various places; ultimately being the ones to decide what is and what is not canon.
    • There have been more than one mention to KOTOR 2 as mentioned above. A Smuggler Class mission involves a holocron made by Darth Nihilus.
    • There's an Investigation mission about a survey team on Malchor V.
  • A major running theme in the first two games and expanded universe as a whole is criticism of the Jedi requirement for no romantic relationships. In this game, you get dark side points for even casual flirting as a Jedi, and light side points for turning in other Jedi having a love affair. Remember that the best ending for a male Revan in the first game is using your love to redeem a fallen Bastilla.
    • You can flirt as a jedi without gaining dark side points, it depends on when you do it though. You can even get married with Kira (in male Jedi Knight story) without the council knowing and you get no dark side points whatsoever.
    • To expand on this, quite a bit of the light side vs. dark side system is nonsensical in this game compared to the original. A Sith Warrior can get light side points for being focused on ideals of honor in one conversation, then get dark side points for it in the next. An early smuggler / trooper quest has you decide who to give recovered medicine to, dying soldiers or dying refugees, and saving the lives of the soldiers it was originally stolen from is dark side. This forces morally grey roleplaying decisions into black and white, and is bungled so badly that a PC who makes decisions based on alignment shifts (which you have to do to use high-end equipment) will be effectively schizophrenic.
      • But none of the alignment restrictions for items are really that strict - the only items requiring Alignment Tier 5 are cosmetic items and a few relics, and the only things needing Tier 4 are some open item sets. Provided you're not actually selecting at random, you'll still reach Tier 3 quite comfortably by choosing mainly one side, rejecting the choices you find totally ridiculous. Compared to the benefits you got maxing one side in Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, it's quite understated here.
      • There's a quest on Coruscant where someone asks you to steal a file that will prevent legislation that would cause the Republic to abandon the Jedi from passing. When you steal the file, someone else runs up to tell you that, sure, the idea of abandoning the Jedi is insane, but darn it, that's how democracy works and it would be wrong to try to take matters into your own hand even if it help people (mind you, it's entirely possible the character in quesiton is a smuggler who flauts the laws of the Republic on a daily basis). The Dark Side option: Say you'd rather support the Jedi than follow the rules. The Light Side option: Agree to take a fake document back to your contact and tell him it's the document he sent you to get. Not an option: Returning to your contact and telling him you changed your mind, rather than actively screwing him over by lying to him.
      • Mission is even screwier than that when you think about it, because it's not like you're some tyrant slapping down the legislation - you're sent to get evidence of the senator's agenda to abandon the Jedi and surrender to the Sith, which is confirmed by the guy who stops you, but you're dissuaded from going public with the truth because... Apparently truth works against the democratic process? I can understand there might be a conflict of interest for Jedi characters, but the dark side/light side choice delineation makes no sense for other Republic characters.
      • It's arguably more a matter of the methods than the goals. It's not as though you're making copies of the documents to share, or even that you have legitimate access to them in the first place. If your principles tell you that stealing internal government files is a questionable deed at best, do you hold to those principles when tested or abandon them in the name of expedience?
    • Tied to this in the Republic Trooper's storyline, Havoc Squad defects, and Garza wishes to keep it quiet as much as possible, so orders you not to give details or names to the Republic forces you meet. Alright, fine, so be professional and say "I'm sorry, sir/ma'am, but I'm under orders not to speak of the details, only enough for need to know." This is absolutely fine on Taris, where you effectively tell an operational command's Colonel (as a Lieutenant!) off with no light side/dark side issues. However, once in Nar Shaddaa, you get confronted by a Republic SIS agent who didn't get audio (but the visuals) of your confrontation with an treasonous officer, during which the entire issue of Havoc Squad was spoken about plainly. Suddenly, you can't even say "I'm sorry, Agent, I'm under direct orders to not speak of this." without getting darkside points. What? How is this consistent?
      • I think in this case it's a question of risk. On Taris, you and Jorgan are the only people being put at risk. The orders therefore can remain secret without hurting anyone. On Nar Shaddaa, the SIS is actively participating in the hunt. To not inform them that they're facing people with Republic Special Forces training—remember, Nar Shaddaa is the first point it becomes clear it's not just Havoc Squad—would be to send them into a combat situation without fully informing them of the capabilities of their enemies, and that could get them killed. Imagine if they thought they were just facing some renegade darksiders but you knew they were going to fight Sith—not telling them, even if those were your orders, would be grossly irresponsible.
    • I think the problem is that the game is so huge (and story intensive) that it's been hard to enforce consistency across different writers. The idea of Light Side and Dark Side is kinda hard to pin down, especially for non Jedi.
      • It largely seems to be dependent on context. Letting someone live is considered "light side", and pursuing power is considered "dark side"... except there are times where light side (at least for Imperials) involves making somebody aid you so in a way you are pursuing power. At least for imperial players, this shows up a few times. (Heck, for Sith Warriors, there are a few light-side options that are somewhat cruel, one to just spare Draahg... and knock him off a balcony into a fire so he apparently burns to death. and another to Spare Darth Baras after his Villainous Breakdown... which can be argued as you just want to watch the broken man squirm even more, which can arguably be considered sadistic.
    • And as for the romance angle regarding Jedi players, a huge part of that is due to the prevalent viewpoint that Love Makes You Crazy, and is thus not desirable to The Stoic Jedi, but much sought after by the Sith.
      • Sith think love makes you weak, so not so much.
      • It should also be mentioned that a number of the romance options for both Jedi classes are their own students, which stumbles into other moral concerns.
    • Special items for grey alignment have been announced as coming in a future patch, which alleviates things somewhat.
    • Just thought I would throw this out there - but during my playthrough as a Jedi Consular, I recieved no dark side points whatsoever whenever I would flirt with someone, or even when I bedded and eventually married my romantic interest.
    • When questioned about this, they actually state that the Jedi council frowns on, but doesn't actually ban, Jedi Masters in good standing getting into relationships.
      • Ashara mentions that sometimes, Jedi even get married. My assumption is that you need the council's permission to marry because of their fear for the dark side. So basically they have to give you blessing.
  • So, why can't we make a Twi'lek Bounty Hunter? The Bounty Hunter trainer on Hutta is a Twi'lek for Pete's sake. Race/class/faction restrictions in general seem a bit arbitrary here.
    • Headgear. The Trooper has the same problem and yes, Twi'lek trainers multiple times. If it weren't for the full helmet headgear those two classes probably would get Twi'lek race options. There just isn't space in those helmets to stuff the lekku into.
      • I'm not sure that's it either. They can be Sith Inquisitors, but that class is all about headgear that basically puts your entire head into a hermetically sealed faceless ball. Inquisitor helmets seem even less likely to have holes in them for various head-appendages. I'd be perfectly happy if they just lifted racial restrictions on classes entirely, as there seems to be little rhyme or reason to it as it stands.
    • A video of the upcoming legacy system showed a Miralukan sith warrior, who have so far been the Jedi locked species. It's possible that it's going to let you use any species for any class, but I could be wrong.
      • The Legacy system works by allowing access to any species you reached level 50 with. If a Twi'lek character was trained to level 50, the Twi'lek species would become available for all classes.
  • During the climax of Act I the Emperor possesses Kira without difficulty; yet why didn't he do this on the run? It's stated that he only knew where she was after she helped kill Tarnis.
    • He was likely using this ability to spy on Kira, and by extension the Knight. The Knight has accepted Kira's connection to the Emperor but doesn't consider it to be the threat it really is, which the Emperor is happy to capitalize on. When the Knight is weakened by Angral's fight, the Emperor finally uses the full possessive power, and he was finally banished from Kira's mind shortly afterwards.
  • What on earth is up with the Sith Academy? I mean how do they produce enough Sith for the empire to function at all when it seems like there is only a very small number of them who actually become Sith?
    • Some speech seems to indicate that there are other sith academies as gaining an apprentice from Korriban specifically is mentioned as a status symbol. There's also the fact players see a small portion and there are likely far more than than what we see. There's also the ulterior motives in each sith storyline which may make it different from most standard cases.
    • One Inquisitor quest involves getting information from a weak acolyte who witnessed a murder. The light-side solution ends up with him assigned as apprentice to a distant Sith the quest-giver knows. There are also acolytes wandering around Dromund Kaas. On the other hand, there don't actually seem to be that many total Sith any more than there are really that many Jedi, maybe a few thousand of each (discounting player characters) spread over an entire galaxy of quintillions of people.
    • This is actually major reason if not the reason why the Sith always seem to lose against the Jedi in straight wars like this one, the Sith's tests are so grueling and unforgiving that they end up killing most of the acolytes, and even fewer live to become Sith Lords, and even more are killed during and after this due to the Sith's Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. In comparison, as long as the apprentice is somewhat skilled and their risk of falling to the Dark Side is minimal, most apprentices ends up getting apprenticed to a Jedi Knight and/or Master eventually and becomes one themselves, and the few that aren't are diverted to other roles like food production. Also, the Jedi do not have Klingon Promotion as their standard practice like the Sith do, they have a very unified front, while the Sith will undermine each other's efforts to get at the Jedi constantly and often at the worst possible times in order for their own advancement. As a result the Sith, while possibly being stronger individually, have a massive deficiency in manpower compared to the Jedi while also lacking the cohesion necessary to make good use of the manpower they do have, so they end up being beaten back by weight in sheer numbers. When the Sith nearly do end up winning, it always seems to be due to strategies of stealth and subterfudge much more than manpower.
  • On Alderaan there is a mission to resuce people from the local hive-mind creatures that are holding them hostage. Most of them are grateful to get out of there but the daughter of the quest-giver has clearly been brainwashed and is speaking of no longer being herself and using first person plural like a proper hive creature. If you choose to rescue her against her wishes, you find out that the pheromones of the species suck people into their hive mind. How is rescuing her a dark side option? Is it really the right thing to do to enable her pheromone-induced Stockholm Syndrome? It's basically leaving a kidnapping victim with her kidnappers because she thinks she's happy.
    • Lore nerd coming in here. The brainwashed girl is a Joiner, someone who's been connected to the Killik hive mind and in constant telepathic communication with them. Joiners as a whole enjoy their experience and connection to the Hive Mind, it's not stockholm syndrome.
      • They force her to be a part of the hive mind and even taking her away from there doesn't seem enough to break the connection. She's forever altered and has a lot of trouble adjusting to her normal life as she doesn't even identify with herself or the people around her anymore. Just because she enjoyed the experience doesn't make it not Stockholm Syndrome or a terrible thing that the Killik did to her.
      • It's quite possible at this time in the lore that the transformation into a Joiner is irreperable, and as such, taking her away is only going to cause her more anguish.
  • I am rather early in the plot for both so maybe im wrong (nearly finished Balmora for one and just finished Chapter 1 on the other) but has anyone else noticed that the Sith Warrior and Inquisitor have the quest lines you would expect for them reversed? The Warrior plot is all about espionage and politics while the Inquisitor has mostly consisted of going into places killing stuff and taking something. Not really a big complain I just dont expect to be doing the political manipulator and plotter on the Sith Warrior while brutalizing the myriad living things in the galaxy as the inquisitor.
    • Speaking as someone who has completed the Sith Warrior story, it does fit the role of Darth Vader Expy rather well, first with Darth Baras acting as the Warrior's "Palpatine" equivilent, until Chapter three In which the Emperor's Hand, and, to some extent, the Emperor himself take over. I'm afraid all I know about the Sith Inquisitor's late game story is, and I quote, "crazy" in the words of a guildmate.
    • The Sith Inquisitor's story is about power. That's the main theme of it. So when you go around hunting for artifacts is for making Lord Zash more powerful, you are actually in line with the story, while the Sith Warrior, although also wishes power, is more akin to an Enforcer So much that your character is The Dragon to first, Darth Baras, then to The Emperor himself!
    • Personally I felt it to be a refreshing change of pace. After countless games of Tabletop games where a warrior is expected to just kill people and take their stuff (and video games where "Dur hur I am Idiot Hero Warrior You No Take Candle." is practically enforced), a warrior who acted the opposite was quite the welcome change of pace. Granted, this is Star Wars which doesn't quite adhere to the same stereotypes.
  • Regarding the civil war on Ord Mantell: why are the separatists accepting help from the Empire? I realize the Empire would funnel weapons and funds to any force with a chance of upsetting the planetary government, but wasn't the entire reason for the uprising in the first place because the separatists didn't approve of the Republic making a treaty with the Empire? I know "the enemy of my enemy" and all that, but seriously, why would the separatists accept help from the people they hated enough to start a war over?
    • A lot of different reasons, most of which are not mutually exclusive. For one accepting aid now doesn't mean they can't turn on the Empire later, when they are more self sufficient. For another... the separatist movement is a fairly crappy organisation full of brainwashed soldiers and press ganged kids, it would be really easy for the Empire to place operatives into their command structure. Depending on how cynical you want to be they whole 'Fight the power' think might just be a cool recruiting slogan for what is secretly just an outright tool of the Empire.
    • Also, I don't think anger at the republic is the only reason for the Civil War - other reasons include justifiable anger at the horribly corrupt planetary government, and some people might see the order of the Empire as preferable to that.
    • To use a real-world example, look at Afghanistan. During the Cold War, they accepted aid and weapons from the Americans to use against the Soviets, but after the Cold War ended, turned those same weapons against the Americans instead. Or the Soviets and the Americans working together to tackle the Nazis during World War II, only to turn on each other after the war ended. This sort of thing where former allies turn on each other happens all the time.
  • The original Havoc Squad's defection to the Empire in the Trooper's storyline. I understand why Tavus and his men are angry at the Republic for basically throwing them off the bus and leaving them to die after one of their covert-ops gone bad, but of all the choices that they have for revenge against the Republic, why in the name of the Force did they defect to the Empire? Especially since the Imperial culture not only permits, but actively encourage people to betray, backstab, and pot behind the back of each other. Also, when it comes down to it, all non-force sensitives are viewed as nothing but expandable pawns foe the Sith in the end, the very thing that Tavus resented about the Republic in the first place. And it isn't like that they are fooled by Imperial propaganda either, since they have seen how things work in the Empire first-hand when they fought on the front lines. It just makes much more sense if they become pirates and attack Republic shipping or something like that.
    • I think it's more the idea that while the Republic views its military as a nessecary evil, the Imperial Military is a very viable way to advance one's self in Imperial Culture. Soldiers, war heroes and the like are actively respected and lauded as Imperial Cultural Heroes. Furthermore, the Empire comes across to most as a lot more of a meritocracy than the Republic, where incompetence and corruption reign supreme.
    • Don't confuse Sith culture with Imperial culture. The Sith are permitted and expected to struggle within themselves for power and use non-Sith as expendable pawns, but the normals and Badass Normals who actually run the day to day business of the Empire can certainly understand what it's like to be treated like a Red Shirt. There's something to be said for the relative honesty of the Empire compared to the Republic, which does things just as horrible as the Empire but tries to pretend it's the good side.
  • Ok, maybe this is something that was explained in one of the Expanded Universe books or in the codex or something, but the over use of Carbonite in this game just gets to me. It's one of the Bounty Hunters main tools, and a particularly egregious use of it in one of the side quests on Taris just pushed it over the line for me. Do people not remember that when they froze Han Solo in Empire Strikes Back, they had NO IDEA if he would survive the process or not? It was kinda just them utilizing a resource they had available on location as a make shift way to trap Luke to gift wrap him for the Empire, and they were just testing it out on Solo to see if that was even an option. But apparently 4000 years ago people were freezing dudes down in Carbonite left and right. Did they just lose all records of that between then and the original trilogy? How come no one went "Dude, Vader, we don't need to test this thing out, we know for a fact it will and has worked." Just rips open massive plot holes whenever Carbonite is used pre-Empire, but this game just over uses it to the point where just relying on Rule of convenience doesn't cut it anymore.
    • IIRC, the doubts about freezing Han in ESB were because the facilities were not built for freezing humanoids. They needed to check the calibration is all.
    • Carbon freezing living beings for sublight travel has been practiced since pre-Republic times, tens of thousands of years by the time of this game. That fact's only mentioned in a few EU references, though. This is why Leia already knew Han would be suffering from hibernation sickness when he's thawed.
    • The Expanded Universe does this in other instances, as well. Another example is the egregious overuse of the word "Cantina" as though it were a Star Wars-y word for a bar instead of a word for a bar appropriate for desert areas only.
  • Who in-universe thought the BT-7 Thunderclap was well-designed? The conference rooms seats fifteen people, but the maximum crew capacity is six (counting the four bunk beds and two-person master bedroom). Was it designed to serve as some kind of mobile headquarters, for other troops to come aboard specifically for briefing purposes? It's a waste of space, especially considering the "fully outfitted medical bay", which consists of merely two beds and nary a diagnostic console, let alone a kolto tank. Furthermore, unless someone is already in the cockpit, there is absolutely no way to make an swift emergency liftoff. To get from the entrance to the cockpit, one must go up a small flight of stairs, turn left, go up a taller flight of stairs, make a u-turn left, go up an equally big staircase, and turn right. Oh, and to top it off, the cockpit's viewport is minuscule to the point of useless, being a narrow slit that's impossible to see out of unless one is standing up. I reiterate, who the heck thought this was a good design for a military vessel?
    • Playing Devil's advocate is this troper's hobby, so...
      • The Thunderclap is designed to be used as an auxiliary command center. Deploy to a backwater planet with a minor Republic presence, and you'll find a medcenter and a command center. Medcenters don't need to be checked out, but command centers could be bugged. Therefore, you hold meetings aboard the ship.
      • There isn't a kolto tank on board because it would be a waste- you wouldn't be able to store enough kolto to use it more than once. If someone was injured out of range of a good medcenter, it would be better to put them in stasis and get them to a site where they can be treated.
      • I play, but haven't gotten the ship yet, so I don't know the specifics of the design and how difficult it would be to reach the cockpit. However, given that the passengers are Republic Army rather than Navy, I can easily see them relying on autopilot. This solves the viewport issue and could be activated through the ship's systems as soon as one got inside.
    • Seperate Troper, but for the takeoff it's like the above mentioned with autopilot. All ships have protocol droids in the game. It'd be fairly easy to radio the ship and order the droid to get the engines going and take off as soon as everyone was on board or close enough to jump on. As for flight, that one's got me. Maybe there are multiple cameras on the ship for monitoring a wider area. Think like those new rear view cameras in cars.
  • Is anyone else highly skeptical of the whole "Revan held the Emperor back" idea? Yeah, I know Revan is the Marty Stu to beat all Star Wars Marty Stus. However, the Emperor is a Humanoid Abomination that plays like a cross of Darth Nihilus, a Reaper and Cthulu. He plans to eat the entire universe and exist as the only living thing in it. Even the Jedi Knight is implied to be Fighting a Shadow and only temporarily stopped him. He feeds on death. To that end, a long-running war of attrition like we see in the game would completely work in his favor. Not even his Darths could take him on, as they're busy with the Republic and the usual Sith Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be any fallout from the Malestrom breakout, implying Revan had long outlived any use he may have had. Revan himself is an Omnicidal Maniac by the time the Imperial team finds him on the Foundry, planning to wipe out 98% of the Imperial population (and probably a signifigant portion of the Republic one, considering how much side-swapping happens in that universe). If the Emperor is sitting back, feeding on all that death, then the attempt at genocide wouldn't bug him at all - more death to feast on, and it furthers his goal to be the only thing left.
    • Firstly, if this is the main complaint you have about how Revan is written, you have either an incredibly selective memory or an enviable appreciation for Bellisario's Maxim. But to summarize, the Emperor might be a borderline Eldritch Abomination but he is still just that: Borderline. He still began as a mortal, and whether or not he wants to be he's still subject to mortal fears, not the least of which being fear of death (which at this point in time is a good half of what he can feel anymore). It doesn't take a genius to read that fact off of him when your minds are so close together with his Mind Rape and all, and it also doesn't take a genius to play off of that, and to exploit the enemy's fear. Now, in the long run this isn't exactly the most decisive result ever, but the bottom line is that when you get down to it the Emperor is just a spoiled, selfish, egocentric bastard with a God Complex who still hides under the bed at night from some deep insecurities. That fact naturally means said facade can be undermined and said insecurities can be played upon, even if the Emperor is so powerful he could be mistaken for a god.
  • Why are there so many more options to flirt as a male character than as a female character? You figured out equal-opportunity flirting in Dragon Age 2, Bioware.
    • Are you talking about options with NPCs or with player companions?
      • Jedi Knight: Balanced. Males get Kira, females get Doc.
      • Jedi Consular: Girls win. They can have Tharan and Iresso, males only get a shot at Nadia.
      • Trooper: Balanced. Males get Elara, females get Aric.
      • Smuggler: Guys win. They can have Risha and Akaavi, females only get Corso.
      • Sith Warrior: Balanced. Males can get Vette or Jaessa, females can have Quinn or Pierce.
      • Sith Inquisitor: Balanced. Males get Ashara, females get Andronikos.
      • Bounty Hunter: Balanced. Males get Mako, females get Torian.
      • Imperial Agent: Guys win. Males can get Kaliyo or Raina, females get Vector.
    • Just going by that, "many more options" amounts to a lead of... one.
    • My problem with the companion romances is that the romance options available are poorly balanced in terms of alignment most of the time, and you can't influence either your romance option's or your companion's personality with the one exception of Jaesa. The result being that the only way you can effectively romance a companion if you're on the opposing alignment is to act against type. For instance, for the male Sith Warrior storyline you have a Jaesa, who you are forced to turn Dark in order to romance if you're Dark Sided, and you've got Vette if you're lightsided. If you're a male Sith Inquisitor however your options are down to... Ashara, who needs the largely Light Sided sort of responses to increase affection.
    • You forgot quite a few. Males get many more "flirt with random mission giver" options (Bonus Series on Taris and Nar'Shadda off the top of my head, latter is an Optional Sexual Encounter), plus there's your contact from the Trooper storyline (full minor romance), Watcher Two (full minor romance), the Jedi you're chasing down on Taris (Optional Sexual Encounter), Darth Lachris (Optional Sexual Encounter + bonus kiss for the bonus series) .... need I go on?
    • I think the OP is only referring to companions here.
      • OP here; I was speaking in total, particularly with regard to class story flirt options. (Outside of class stories, there's a distinct lack of flirt options with any effect for male or female characters, although there's still more for males.) Note that I'm speaking entirely of flirt options, not payoffs for flirting. It's particularly noticeable as a Smuggler. On Ord Mantell, Taris, Tatooine, Hoth, and Belsavis you have options as a male, as well as the chance to flirt with Senator Dodonna and Master Sumalee over a longer period of time. You even get a recurrence of a past flirt option on Quesh. As a female, you get Balmorra and Voss, along with some options with Skavak and Darmas.
  • Why this Sith Empire resembles more Palpatine's Empire than other Sith empires of a closer age (like Naga Sadow's pseudo-ancient Egyptian Sith Empire)? I mean, the Sith Troopers aesthetically look a lot like Stormtroopers with a red/black armor instead of white, imperial officers dress in a similar way to Tarkin and Jerjerrod, some of the highest ranking officers are actually Moffs, Mandalorians look more like Boba Fett than Mandalore the Indomitable or Canderous Ordo...
    • This is taken from the Star Wars entry for Medieval Stasis: Star Wars, wherein, according to the Expanded Universe, the Galactic Republic has been socially and technologically stagnant for at least five thousand years (out of twenty-five thousand years of its history). It's quite plausible that the Star Wars galaxy has 'maxed out' its technological development. This galaxy had a starfaring civilization for thirty thousand years. Sooner or later they were bound to run out of new laws of physics to uncover. They may have simply run out of ways to make leaps and bounds in technology, so mostly it's just been cyclic development when it comes to development; someone "invents" a new tech (which probably has been developed by someone else at some time, but forgotten), so people "invent" countermeasures, and when the "new" development is rendered obsolete, it fades from memory until the countermeasures do too and then it's back to square one.
      • For example, the V-shaped cruisers the Empire uses. They're perfectly suited to war, as they allow all the main batteries to focus fire to the front while still maintaining excellent fire cones elsewhere, while being vulnerable to flanking from behind. When the war ended and things were back to relative peace, being able to annihilate the ship in fron of you wasn't as important as being able to fit as much cargo or maintain luxury accomodations, so less and less ships were made with the V-shaped hull until it was forgotten over the course of centuries. 3550 years later, an engineer realized a V-shaped hull would allow a ship to focus fire on the front, and suddenly a ship resembling those make 3550 years ago is created.
    • It may be hard to wrap your head around this development, simply because humanity hasn't had well-recorded history for over 3600 years. Like I said, the star wars universe discovered everything to be discovered, and they're just making minor tweaks and improvements to treaded ground. Even then, remember that fashion sometimes cycles, and this cycle is just longer than most others.
    • Either that, or the fact that their constant, endless and tiresome wizards' religous war keeps burning the galaxy to the point where they can't advance because they're always picking through some ruins from the last dust-up.
    • One of the Star Wars RPG books also (while discussing modifying ships) stated that technology in the SW universe is almost always made from stock parts and, although custom bits make the difference, the vast majority of the galaxy makes due with stuff assembled from fairly uniform bits. Since many people live on city-wide planets with ancient tech, it makes sense that people would rely on older technology because they can (for lack of a better term) plug it into the wall outlet. Basically advancement is glacial because any sufficiently new technology is also too incompatible to be regularly useful.
    • ^This. This is also probably the same reason why advancements in the Force by both Orders doesn't seem to change much. Both Orders wax and wane, one side nearly winning and the other to be reduced to near nothing, losing much of whatever knowledge they possessed, only for it to happen again a few centuries later. As to why TOR's Sith Empire resembles Palaptine's so much, it's an easy enough guess that Palaptine simply based his Empire off of TOR's, which makes sense because as far as we're shown TOR's and Palaptine's Empires are probably the most stable as Sith rule has ever managed to be, so the fact that Palatine took notes from it is easy to imagine.
      • This doesn't explain the oddity of the Sith Empire and Palpatine's Empire having the same emblem. The problem here being that the emblem used by Palpatine's Empire is actually the emblem of the Galactic Republic which was just carried over when he reorganized it into the Empire. Conversely, the SWTOR-era Republic is using a stylized version of the emblem used by the movie-era Rebel Alliance. Combine this with the ship designs of the factions resembling the ship designs of the associated factions in the movies, it's fairly obvious that it's just to provide familiarity for the casual player who hasn't played KOTOR or read any of the EU materials.
      • The Republic by the time of Palpatine had been influenced by the Sith for years! Obviously they arranged the Republic to have similar symbols as their greatest Sith Empire in history while the Rebel Alliance imitated the symbol used by the Republic during it's war with the Sith Empire because like the Galactic Empire it was an Empire.
      • The emblem of the Republic throughout most of the "Republic Era" (roughly 1000-50 BBY) isn't like the Imperial emblem at all, it's more like a very ornate sword hilt. Other times the Republic seems associated with a bird-like symbol (the one the familiar Rebel Alliance icon is mimicking, which is also similar to the TOR-era Republic).
  • Wait... where does it say Kaliyo is about 1.5 meters tall? That would put her at about five feet (Maybe). Her character model is... actually around the size of everybody else.
  • Why do the Legacy family trees not have a mentor/student option? In a Star Wars game?!
  • The Endar Spire can be found on Taris, which is nice and all from a nostalgia point of view but in KOTOR the ship was very clearly blown to dust in orbit. So how is it basically intact on the planet's surface?
    • Probably engine limitations on the original KOTOR meant it was easier to render a ship-obscuring explosion and disappear the model. Bioware decided the wreck would make a good Nostalgia Level, so probably retconned it being completely annihilated to just crippled and crashed.
      • The problem with that is that the destruction of the Endar Spire in the original KOTOR occurred in a cutscene so its not that they obscured the model they chose to have it blow up into dust as if it were hit by the Death Star. Its ruins as anything larger than a basketball is very much a retcon. How the paint is still visible on it after 300 years is also curious.
      • If that paint survived plummeting through the atmosphere and hitting the ground, it can probably survive a little rain.
  • The design of the Valor-class dreadnaught (the republic counterpart to the Imperial proto-star destroyer) makes no sense to me. The Codex and Wookieepedia both say that its an equal to its Imperial competition but I just don't see how that is the case. It doesn't seem to have nearly as many turbolasers and during standard flight most of them are blocked by protruding bits of the ship unless it would turn itself vertically facing the enemy and making itself a enormously huge target. Compared to the Imperial Harrower it can bring nowhere near the amount of fire to bear on a single target and unless its shields are multiple times stronger than the Harrower's (which I think is mentioned in the codex as being state of the art) it seems like it should get blown away in a straight fight every time because well... its DPS should be way too low.
    • Looks can be deceiving, and though they share different strengths, the Valor'-class manages to be an adequate counterpart. The ship does have an equal number (possibly more) turbolasers than a Harrower, but like you said, suffers from few overlapping fire cones. The ship then makes up for it by having excellent fields of fire, as the layout means it's never able to be flanked like a forward-designed Harrower. Coupled with the state-of-the-art shield system, it can easily park itself inside an Imperial Fleet and wreak havoc. Considering its size, it probably has superior troop and supply capabilities than the Harrower. It's definitely the Tank to the Harrower's DPS, relying more on supporting ships than the Harrower'' but still being formidable.
  • How exactly does the Corellia plot work? Imperial players basically take Corellia for The Empire, yet the Republic side is them driving The Empire off of the planet. Is it kind of like Balmorra, where the Imperial players take the planet for the Empire, only for the Republic players to arrive afterwords and run the empire off the planet?
    • The Republic World Campaign is set a few days to a few weeks after the Imperial campaign. The Empire is finishing off the last defenders of Corellia, the Republic is bringing the reinforcements. It really is like Balmorra, and it ends in a canonical Republic victory, and further story developments bring up how the crushing defeat the Empire suffered at Corellia turned the tide of the war (something like 10% of their entire fleet lost) as well as the resulting desperate situation the Empire is now in.
    • For that matter, the class stories take place at wildly different times. At the very least, the Bounty Hunter class story is completely done before the Republic world story even starts (elsewise Janarus would still be in charge), and it's generally agreed that the Jedi Consular's Corellia quests are the final class story chronologically speaking (though the Jedi Knight defeating the Emperor still takes place after the Jedi Consular's Corellia story).
  • So from the above, who owns Quesh then?
    • Probably the Republic-aligned Hutts. The Imperial questline has you capturing Broga's palace for Imperial Moff Dracen. The Republic questline has you capturing the Moff in Broga's palace, implying that it takes place long enough after the Imperial story for him to have moved in and made himself comfortable.
  • Am I the only one who finds it quite odd that there are some interactions that don't take your characters' race into account? I'm willing to forgive a few instances - namely how the Republic doesn't find anything odd about a Sith Pureblood Smuggler running around or how a Miraluka Imperial Agent raises no eyebrows (Legacy), or the guys explaining what a Cathar is to a Cathar PC (They were added in later) But one moment stands out in particular - the Foundry. I ran through on a Sith Pureblood Inquisitor, and, just for kicks, selected the third option, and I rolled on the floor laughing as a sith pureblood said "Good thing I don't have Sith DNA in me". How did that slip past the radar? Does a Sith Pureblood (or well... any Sith Warrior/Inquisitor player character) try to lie in an attempt to taunt HK-47 and fail epically at it?
    • It goes both ways: there's a dialogue option on Belsavis where my Human Warrior was able to ask an Imperial Non-Human Relations Officer whether "you treat us just as well as your own kind". Whoops.
  This page has not been indexed. Please choose a satisfying and delicious index page to put it on.  



random
TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy
51406
30