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Headscratchers: Sly Cooper
Sly Cooper
  • Why is Guru more than happy to kill people, when he's supposed to be such a pacifist that his protege, Murray refused to use violence at all until Bentley, knocked out of his wheelchair by Octavio, begged him to help and that Murray was sure that even as the miners were threatening him and his culturally important places, he would be passive and "try to find a middle way?" Even if killing miners was for the greater good, he's shredding guards to bits with a wolf, ramming them into a van that's apparently made of steel, and crushing pirates just one or two episodes later.
  • Why oh why didn't they stick with the main villain for the third game, rather than pulling something out of their collective arses?
    • Two reasons. First, Clockwerk was unambiguously killed at the end of the second game. The very thing keeping him alive was destroyed and every part of him shriveled into nothing. Bringing him back would have been very cheap. Second, there're only so may ways you can rehash the same villain while keeping it interesting; the second game did a good job, and they were wise not to press their luck. Third (though this isn't a "reason"), the new villain has a pretty decent concept.
      • Then why did they make a third game that's more a minigame collection than a game? (Yes, yes, it's a Take That, but I was disappointed.)
      • Because people were whining about how 'linear' the second game was, I suppose. Never mind that the second game's plot was very meticulously constructed and made for a great storyline, people still complained. Also, my guess is they wanted to try something a little different as opposed to repeating the first game's concept of a Five-Bad Band - not to mention, they wanted to go lighter than the very dark second game while still keeping it fairly serious. Personally I didn't mind the plot and game as a whole, but I will complain that there didn't feel like there was a big threat/story arc for a good deal of the game as a result. To each their own I suppose.
  • In Sly 2, why did everyone act like Clock-la would be invincible and unstoppable if she became immortal? Clockwerk was immortal in the first game, but he still got his ass handed to him by the Cooper Gang.
    • Seriously, why?
    • Because of Arpeggio's plan to sow hate through all of Paris. Clockwerk's immortality was fueled only by his own hatred of the Cooper clan, but Clock-la would have the entire city boosting her immortality with hatred.
    • It should be noted that an additional reason to stop the plan is that the arrival of the blimp over Paris would cause the entire city to go into a giant destructive rage. It'd be like the Narrows in Batman Begins. And that's where the gang lives. Paris, not the Narrows.
  • Where did Clockwerk get the robot parts for his body? He made it pretty clear that he'd replaced his flesh with them a few thousand years ago, long before the concept of robots had been created, much less functional parts.
    • Prosthetics have been around for thousands of years, and since he's obviously smart enough to replace every single part of his body (including his brain and heart, somehow) with mechanical replicas, he was probably way ahead of his time.
      • Yes to the prosthetics, but they were made of wood and couldn't link to a nervous system. If Clockwerk could design and build robot parts like that thousands of years before anyone else even thought of them, why didn't he just sell them? He would've been the richest being on Earth and he could hired an army to kill the Cooper clan effortlessly.
      • And allow someone else to kill them? He achieved immortality through his sheer hatred of the Cooper clan. Clockwerk was insane to a degree previously unknown. He wouldn't be capable of thinking that way.
    • It's perfectly possible that the robotic parts are a comparatively recent addition (comparatively as in only a couple of thousand years old). As Napoleon told Ra's Al Ghul, "A strong will can fuel a frail physique", and his pure, undiluted hatred gave Clockwerk possibly one of the strongest wills in all of fiction. It's stated that his hatred is what kept him alive for so long, so it's possible that he only became the six-million dollar bird when the technology became available so that he'd be more capable of tormenting the Cooper clan. Plus, in terms of the technology becoming available, remember that Clockwerk is a technical genius far beyond even the capabilities of the Fiendish Five's nominal "chief inventor", Sir Raleigh (as Bentley says after examining the technology used by Ms. Ruby and the Panda King), and Raleigh himself was capable of casually creating a machine to control the weather, which should give you an idea of how smart Clockwerk was. Combine that with an almost infinite drive to defeat the Cooper clan and there's probably not much he couldn't do.
    • How DOES one replace their own brain and heart?
      • You download your brain onto a mechanical copy, then once every other bit of you is robotic, you replace your heart. Of course, WHY Clockwerk would need a heart is unknown.
  • Why would Clockwerk need a stomach?
    • Where else would he store the Coopers he has beat?
    • He used to be a regular owl, with a regular stomach. He probably replaced it with a robotic one at a point in his life after he decided to replace his body parts with machine parts, but still had organic left parts that needed to be nourished. Presumably, it became vestigial once he was completely mechanical, unless it was re-purposed to serve some mechanical function.
      • Don't owls have gizzards instead of stomachs, anyway? Maybe Sucker Punch just didn't want to confuse children who don't even know what a gizzard is. . .but then again according to Sucker Punch, tigers hate water.
      • Clockwerk could have also simply needed the stomach (and other organs) to supply support to the framework of his body so it wouldn't be hallow or a complete mess of wires.
      • In Sly 2 it managed to power one of Jean Bison's trains to run all day, so it could be some kind of extra engine
  • Why did Clockwerk build a death ray? Seems like an odd tool for someone who wants to be a master thief...
    • As explicated at the end of Sly 1, Clockwerk's idea of becoming a master thief is killing all better thieves so he'd have the title by default.
      • What did he actually steal, though?
      • Sly Cooper's cane. That's got to count for something. Apart from that, though, I'm not sure.
      • You could count the Thievius Raccoonus
    • New theory: Perhaps Clockwerk is only immortal in the philosophical sense- the Clockwerk family built bigger and better robot suit-type machines throughout history, passing their knowledge down to the next generation. It wasn't until nerve-connective prosthetics were invented that Clockwerk achieved artificial immortality.
  • What are Clockwerk's parts made of to be so indestructible?
    • I got the sense that it was the hate chip that was keeping them indestructible, since they all rusted to nothing once it was destroyed. But Bently did mention something about them being made of super-alloys.
  • In Sly 3: I didn't really mind Dimitri, and I actually liked the direction they went with the Panda King's character, but having Muggshot be into fighting planes is just stupid. There was absolutely nothing in his character in the first game that would lend itself to that. And don't answer with anything with "dogfight" or "top dog," because even puns that simple would sail over his head.
    • The dogfights are apparently a perfectly legal way to blow people up in mid-air. Something like that must attract all kinds of psychos and killers, and Mugshot has a lot of steam to blow off.
      • He's a mean, stupid thug, and a fan favorite.
    • Or perhaps the puns did sail right over his head, and he thought he was actually signing up for some kind of dog vs. dog wrestling match or something? Then he comes in and discovers he likes blowing up planes?
  • Why oh why did Sly have to bring back Bentley and Murray? They were set up for a timely retirement with one crippled and the other grief ridden. He could have got new partners in crime or even just work with the cops in that installment, lending them his understanding of the criminal mind and methodology. he would have had official albeit under cover off-the-records kind of 'official' help and resources with different cops with different specialties helping out for each given job. Of course, it also means working directly with Carmelita but on her terms. Ah, there's still time for that in the future.
    • Because Bentley and Murray are his friends; he simply WOULDN'T let that happen. Not while he can stop it.
      • The Cooper Gang were more than Sly's friends. They're his family, he's not just going to abandon them that easily. Even at the end of Sly 3, he knows that they know where he is and what he's up to.
      • Officially, Bently never left. He stuck with Sly after he was crippled, only leaving temporarily to get the wheelchair. Murray, meanwhile, did leave.
      • Besides, the whole plot of 3 was to steal back a fortune in previously stolen goods that was being re-stolen by an old accomplice of Sly's father. If Sly had gone to the cops for help, they'd have laughed all the way to the sturdiest cell in the joint. Plus, Dr. M was right, he was within his rights as the legal owner of the island to crack the vault. Everything in it was stolen goods, but... maritime salvage laws. We'll go with that.
      • Most of the stuff in the vault was stolen hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. The statute of limitations on those crimes is long since expired. Dr. M might have run into some trouble with the more recent additions to the vault (like the stuff added by Sly's dad) but most of it is up for grabs.
  • Am I the only one bothered by the ending, NOT because Sly pretty much abandons his friends (though that was pretty bad), but because no one points out that there's probably something wrong with lying about something THAT BIG? Especially basing a romantic relationship off that lie?? (Flight of Fancy bugged me, too— before you know that Penelope is the Black Baron, it sounds like she's very upset by the idea that someone might cheat... so, naturally, you do just that TO GET HER TO JOIN THE TEAM.)

    • The ending fades to black after Bentley figures it out, and he acts indignant enough. As for Flight of Fancy, the only caper Penelope actually helps you on is one where you're trying to stop people from cheating against you.
      • I thought she was upset that somebody had (successfully) bribed the Baron's minions into helping hurt you?
    • Penelope is with the gang, drooling over Sly, for a couple of episodes before she ends up in a relationship with anyone, and the only relationship lie involving her was the internet thing with with the 'shopped photos, which Bentley obviously got over pretty quickly. As for the Sly/Carmelita resolution being based on a lie, that bothers me a lot. Not just he faked amnesia, but that she lied about who he is. (and how the hell did she get away with that, anyway? Yes, let's just give an amnesiac criminal access to the international police's resources, and hope he's not lying now, nor will get his memory back without telling anyone.)
    • In all fairness, he did leave them all of the Cooper Vault Wealth. And He did think that he had been foolish for trying to avoid a relationship for so long a mere hour before hand.
      • Yeah, arguably, leaving his family's gold as a goodbye makes skipping out on his True Companions a bit better, but the question of the relationship he did so for being based on a pretty darn big lie on either side is still there.
      • No one said it was an easy choice. But it can only be one thing, no matter how you think abowt it. He DID leave them a good bye present after all. Being his friends, he knew they'll understand.
  • How come Penelope, someone even less physically oriented than Bentley, was able to hand Sly's ass to him in a boxing match as the Baron? And why did she deign not to use this magical talent afterwards?
    • Uh, since it's surely the succeeded task that's the canon event, since that's what's needed to continue, that should be nearly hand Sly's ass to him, and even that took lots of minions. Also, she does win the sword fight against Le Fwee, so it's not the only time she shows such a talent. Also, less physically oriented than Bentley? Where do you get that from? She was a blinkin' fighter ace, after all. More generally, hitting people is what they have Murray for, they got Penelope for the RC vehicle skills.
      • Whoops, I didn't clarify the boss fight as I had intended to, sorry. I'll accept your arguments; it JBM that someone with all that potential strength only operates through machines, is all.
      • She might be a decent fighter but the gang has a better strong person and her true potential is as a mechanic and pilot.
      • Plus, This Troper always assumed that, due to the considerable difference in size between the Baron and Penelope, that the Baron suit was some sort of machine, which would enhance her strength as well as change her voice. Plus, though both this and the LeFwee fight shows that she's quite skilled in combat, it's unlikely that a "Master Boxer' would leave themselves open to attack as much as she did during the fight. (Yes, I realize that pointing out a boss's tactics being illogical is kind of redundant with these sorts of bosses, but it should be noted nonetheless.)
      • Should what the Baron says in the cutscene beforehand be an actual part of Penelope's past and not just banter, it makes sense that she would be very good at fighting since she's "trained ten years at fisticuffs".
    • I must have missed that part of the game. Last time I played, it was the baron who got his (well, her, but... you know) ass handed to him by Sly. The canon event is Sly kicking her ass to the point where she surrenders. And, considering that Sly won, despite all the help the baron got from his henchmen, I'd say it's safe to say Sly was so busy kicking ass, he forgot to take names, if you'll excuse the Halo reference.
  • I've got to ask, between the first and second games, did Murray... go off his meds or something? I mean, in the first game, he's a fairly normal hippo (well, as normal as anyone is in these games), albeit kind of cowardly and with a serious case of "Sly-envy", as the developers put it, and in the second game, he's, well... THE MURRAY! Maybe it's explained in a tie-in comic or something, but... it just seems odd to me.
    • HE IS THE MURRAY
    • Well, what would you prefer? A not-all-that-interesting slightly clumsy oaf or THE GREATEST HAM IN THE HISTORY OF PLAYSTATION?
      • Don't pretend you didn't like Sly 1!Murray's brand of goofiness.
      • Several believe that Murray became The Murray via watching Pro-wrestling. Hence the third-person reference and the want to hit stuff.
      • Pro-wrestling? My guess was that he got in to Arnold Schwarzenegger movies and 90's comics. Lots and lots of 90s comics. Sly 1!Murray also probably had an inner desire to be a tough eccentric who could KO people in one punch. Mix that in with wanting to be a more useful member of the team, watching a few seasons of wrestling, supporting friends, a few years, and a damn good weight-lifting set, and you have THE MURRAY.
    • Plus, it IS two years between the first and second. It's not uncommon for people to overcome personal conflicts in that time.

  • Okay, a few questions about Raleigh from the first game. 1. When Sly encounters advanced technology in Ms. Ruby's and the Panda King's world, why does Bentley immediately assume that "The fifth member of the Fiendish Five" (who they didn't know about at that point) supplied it, rather than their actual chief inventor. 2. Why didn't he use any machines during his boss fight? I mean, don't get me wrong, the fight was fun and all, but he's been built up all this time as a "mad machinist" capable of creating bizarre and fantastical devices, including a weather manipulator. I was all set up to fight some sort of giant robot or massive death ray or something cool and mechanical. Instead, he just bloated himself up and tried to jump on you. I mean, I love the character and wish they'd done more with him, but... Damn, talk about an anticlimax. and 3. Where did he get that sweet hat? I want one!
    • You can get one at the gift shop. Same place where you buy the canes.
    • Perhaps Raleigh was caught up in the moment and forgot about his weaponry, or he just didn't have any on hand because he was confident no one would get him in his blimp.

  • If Interpol had the files to the Fiendish Five linking them to the murder of Sly's parents and the locations of their hideouts for years, then why for the love of all that's pure and decent didn't they arrest them earlier? Were they just not concerned with catching them and decided to focus all efforts on Sly and his gang? If so Interpol has some seriously messed up priorities if they place more importance on simple thieves than a gang of pirates/ mobsters/bank-robbing voodoo priestess(es) with a plan to make everyone in the world their ghost-zombie minions/arsonists/mad scientists.
    • Either their locations were just too damn impossible to navigate (Raleigh and Ruby come to mind), or they were only suspected of murdering Sly's parents (likely due to confirmed/suspected association with Clockwerk, who would be way impossible to catch anyway,) or they were using hostages to work out some sort of deal at one time (I mean, Panda King could blow up towns and did so once both Interpol and Sly's Gang started to go after him, and it's likely Ruby could do much more damage with her voodoo powers, Raleigh could wreck havoc if he took his weather machine elsewhere, Mugshot was basically a walking tank that took over an entire city, and you know Clockwerk could've taken over the planet if he wanted. I mean, c'mon.) Also, Sly's gang is anything but simple. Weren't they mentioned having stolen a priceless gem from some temple prior to the first game's beginning?
    • Carmelita actually showed that she didn't know that the Panda King was a criminal, so it's possible that Interpol only SUSPECTED Panda King of arson, but never had the evidence.
  • Here's what I don't get about the end of Sly 2. How did Clockwerk cripple Bentley? Where did Murray go with him? What was that red thing that looked like Bentley that was draped on a rock? How did Cooper escape the helicopter Did Murray feel guilty for not really protecting Bently? I'm very confused.
    • Clockwerk (Clock-la, really) crippled Bentley when she crushed him in her beak. Murray and Bentley went somewhere, but the location isn't important. I'm pretty sure the "red thing that looked like Bentley" was Bentley's and Murray's thief outfits. Sly escaped the helicopter because Bentley and/or Murray somehow managed to replace the pilot and control the helicopter. Sly then just jumped out of it once Carmelita took her eyes off of him. Yes, Murray felt guilty for not protecting Bentley, and it's dealt with in Sly 3. Did you actually beat the game? Most of these questions are clearly answered by the game, so I don't see why you find it so confusing.
      • Ah yes! I just recently beat Sly 2. I wrote that before I had beat it, so yah. XD
      • Dude, you gotta beat these games before asking questions like that...
  • Not really a huge deal, but I've always wondered. In the first Sly game, what are those things in the ground when you're fighting Muggshot? They look sorta like crystals, and you seem to reflect the light off of them. I'm just not sure what they are, or why they're there in the first place.
    • I think they're just fancy decorations that can repurposed to fry you. Maybe a security system installed by the building's previous owner that Muggshot didn't know about?
  • Did Sly actually become Carmelita's partner as part of his fake amnesia plan? Given the situation, I can see Interpol having an issue with that, if only for the ethics of it. (Yes, we know Sly was only playing along with Carmelita's lie, and I doubt Carmelita was trying to take advantage of him, but others would probably see it at a Heel-Face Brainwashing.)

  • What I don't get is, how can two people of different species be in a relationship? Bently and Penelope are a reptile and mammal, so it's really impossible for them to have kids one day.

  • How the heck did Dimitri end up in an Italian jail when he was arrested in France? Not only that, but the credits of Sly 2 say he reformed and became a dance instructor on a cruise ship. So what happened to that life?
    • That one's easy. Dimitri's a career criminal, he probably did something else illegal and got caught. Most likely recently, as the jail Sly broke him out of looked more like a holding cell than anything else.
    • The things he did that were mentioned in the credits of Sly 2 could have happened after the events of Sly 3.

  • Why did they introduce the mechanical eggs near the end of Sly 2? They weren't relevant to the plot, and they were a perfectly good excuse to have an army of Clockwerks for the next game, but that was their first and last appearance. This troper hasn't played Sly 3, by the way.
    • The eggs contain mini robot henchmen for that level(and yes, they had did nothing in Sly 3).

  • Would Arpeggio's scheme really have worked? The kind of anger that fueled Clockwerk was obsessive, psychotic hatred. What he was trying to create was basically a chemically induced rage. While they both fit the concept of 'anger' in the dictionary sense, they have very little in common.

  • Arpeggio's scheme is reliant on using the Northern Lights Battery to drive Paris into a hypnosis-induced rage. The Northern Lights Battery has no power in it whatsoever; Sly's gang knows this, since they were the ones who drained it, in order to be able to ride it up to the blimp, which they did. So, why the worry over Clock-La driving Paris into a rage, when it's clearly impossible?
    • He could have gotten one earlier — Arpeggio is one for planning ahead. Too bad, he didn't see Neyla's "Eviler than Thou" actions coming until it was too late.
    • Plus they still were planning to dump spice onto Paris which would probably still create the desired effect. Remember even though they stopped John Bison, it's still only mentioned that they stopped distribution in the States. Plus they'd been shipping the spice for a while until Sly and the Gang put a stop to it, so Arpeggio would've had access to plenty.

  • What is Rajan's position in the Klaww Gang? I've listed him as a Brute as he's evidently very strong, as he can deal a lot of damage against Murray, but that's all my justifications.
    • Since he's the one who produces the "spices", I guess you could call him the supplier.
    • Not every evil group has to be a Five-Bad Band, you know! Do remember that, as overeager as we tropers are to assign people into Five Man and Bad Bands, the characters themselves wouldn't be thinking along those lines when assembling groups. After all, the Klaww Gang's main source of income is spice dealing, and to that end, they'd need an organizer (Arpeggio), a transporter (Jean-Bison), a distributer (Dimitri), an insider on the police force (The Contessa)... and a supplier (Rajan). Remember, just because many things fit a trope like Five-Bad Band doesn't mean everything has to. Also, if anyone's The Brute, it's Jean-Bison, being a massive, rather thuggish lumberjack and all.
    • OP here, so he's just a something more like a Genius Bruiser, and the Klaww Gang does have members closely fitting all the other Five-Bad Band tropes
    • On the initial Five-Bad Band subject, I agree. I mean just because they associated with one another doesn't mean they were necessarily a team. After all Jean Bison and Arpeggio were negotiating a deal for the Clockwerk parts as opposed to Bison simply giving them to Arpeggio and all of them had their individual businesses aside from spice production (with the exception of Rajan) so clearly they did run their separate enterprises.
  • Why is it that neither a turtle or a hippo can swim?
    • They grew up in an orphanage and probably weren't taught. Animals in real life =/= Animals in fiction.
    • Bentley has no excuse. Murray, on the other hand, does. Hippos don't swim. They walk across the bottom of shallow water. Only water shallow enough to stand in.
      • He gains an excuse in Sly 3, when he confined to a wheelchair.
      • Which really just opens up more questions: if he's such a genius and can invent a friggin' time machine, why can't he invest in a pair of hidden floaties in his wheelchair tires or something? He's turned the thing into a short-flight jet pack (bypassing the usual trouble of scorching one's own legs), so what's the problem? Also, why is it not electric? He's able to make a mechanical arm quiet enough to pick pockets, so what's stopping him from making a silent wheelchair that moves at the touch of a finger? It's obvious the workout isn't building any arm muscles, so you'd think he'd want to save his energy for something else.
  • In the China level of Sly 3, when Tsao steals the laptop, you have to head into his palace and hack into his computer. Now, the entire point of this level is to save Jing King, who is in the same room as the computer, so why don't they just rescue her then while Tsao is waiting in the forest? The only thing between you and her is a sliding glass door!
    • I believe it had to deal with ruining him for what he did to Panda King. Tsao took his daughter, he wanted Tsao to be publicly humiliated. Also, Tsao, if I recall correctly, was part of a rich/well-known family, who could've easily set aside the resources to procuring her and ensuring the Cooper Gang ended up in jail.
  • So, Clockwerk's character revolves around him being a rival to the Cooper Clan, who's tired of them besting him as a master thief over the years. This poses two questions... 1) If Clockwerk is a master thief like the Coopers, why isn't he more notorious (according to Sly, Interpol hardly had any information on him)? And 2) How good a thief could he possibly be given that he's a giant robotic owl? His metal body makes so much noise when you fight him, it doesn't seem he could be that stealthy, and he's way too big to even fit through most doors, let alone windows or air vents or other "thief" entrances.
    • As for why Interpol had hardly any info on him? He just kills any witnesses. As for actual thieving... Maybe he has his hawk drones do that for him?
    • To answer #1, the Cooper family, we know Sly for sure, probably left a calling card at their heists, while Clockwerk probably didn't.
  • What's with Bison? He uses the Clockwerk parts to make his trains run non-stop. Given that the purpose of a train is to transport something from point A to point B, and you can only load/unload cargo when the train isn't moving, wouldn't a train that never stops be essentially useless? Also, his trophy for the Lumberjack games was truly idiotic. The Clockwerk Talons were known to have been stolen from a museum in Egypt. By putting them up as a trophy, he is announcing to the world that he has received stolen property, giving Interpol grounds to arrest him had they been paying attention. And offering an item which is technically illegal to own as a trophy isn't going to attract many competitors. Maybe that's why the Cooper gang was the only team competing against him?
    • Despite what he said to the contrary, Jean Bison was never the sharpest knife in the box.
  • If Dr. M wanted to get into the Cooper Vault, why didn't he do what Carmelita did to break inside after the battle with him and Sly?
    • A better question: Why didn't he wait until Sly finished opening the door and then shoot at him at the very beginning instead of shooting the door shut and going through all that rigamarole to get the cane to unlock the door?
  • Is it just me, or does it seem that all of Carmelita's arrests seem to be just her settling for not catching Sly? In fact, she's super focused on catching Sly. Don't those kind of cops usually get kicked off the force (and no, I'm not counting that time she DID because she was framed) in fiction? And I'm sure that most of the places she fallows Sly to are outside INTERPOL's region of operations. I even think she might be letting Sly get away (well, her unconscious mind at least) because that part of her mind KNOWS that if she catches Sly for good, that's the end of her life's work, as it were, much like Sly saves her because without her, steal would be 'less fun.'
    • Why isn't Carmalita getting kicked off the force, despite her obsession with Sly, and despite her repeated failures to catch him? She keeps getting Saved by the Awesome, that's why. She might never catch Sly, but she always seems to catch the criminals he's stealing from, and they're never small-timers. Her bosses have probably figured out by now that she'll never catch Sly (and hold him long enough to send him to prison), but they humor her because of all the big-time criminals she catches while chasing him.
  • Where the flying hell does Penelope's hatred of Sly in Thieves in Time come from? She spent most of the third game obsessed with him, and now she holds an insane desire to see him gone because he's supposedly holding her and Bentley back, despite the intro alone showing how very NOT held back they are? Hell, we don't even know how she MET Le Paradox or how easy or hard it was for him to convince her to give him the plans for the time machine. Were Sanzaru's writers just unable to think of something better to do with her than turn her into Neyla II? Was the thought of more than one female protagonist unbearable? Are they Murray x Bentley shippers?
    • Simple. Poor, lazy, writing.
    • Look at the facts. In Sly 3, it was clear Penelope had a desire for power. All of her gadgets came with major offensive capabilities, and were set to self destruct when she lost control of them because she didn't want anyone else getting their hands on them. She became the Black Baron out of a desire to enter the ACES competition, where she would be allowed to freely blow other planes out of the skies. She found herself donning the Black Baron suit more and more because she found herself powerful while inside of it. While she did idolize Sly when she first met him, it's likely her opinion of him became lower and lower as the game went on, which is why she went after Bentley after the gang recruits Dimitri. She probably began to think that Sly was much less honorable than he makes himself out to be. Also, she initially thinks that Sly taught Bentley what he knows; it's likely that she thought Sly was an intellectual at first, especially because he managed to beat her while she was the Black Baron, and eventually found out that it was Bentley who masterminded all the plans.
      • Yeah, no, sorry, still not seeing anything that should lead to what happened here. Not to mention half of that paragraph was pure guesswork anyway.
      • I'm assuming Sly 3's Penelope and Sly 4's Penelope are twins with the same name.
      • It was brainwashing.
      • The Black Knight is Penelope from a different timeline. Our Penelope's still MIA.
      • The opening sequence of Sly 4 shows Bentley working on his time machine and every few seconds we see Penelope switching jobs in the background. This would imply that Bentley became absorbed into his work. Penelope probably became upset Bentley was paying more attention to his project than her and decided to blame Sly on some faulty logic that it's his fault (probably because Bentley was building the time machine in the first place to see what the future would hold for the gang). It's stupid and irrational, but that's as good an answer as I can make.
      • She said her reasons were quite clear. She felt that Sly and his thief honor was holding her and Bentley back. She wanted to start making and selling weapons. She stated herself "We could have made billions!" in the third chapter. She blames sly for that and thus she wants to get rid of him, ignoring the fact that doing so would probably erase her and bentley's meeting as well.
      • Her vaguely explaining it doesn't make it any less poorly written.
      • Not at all. Why are people insisting that Penelope is a nice character due to lazy writing? Fact is that in her persona as Black Baron, she is still cheating (that's why she has those blimps and such). She is pretty much attracted to power, as seen in her change from Sly to Bentley. Sure she has worked with the Cooper Gang in 3, but we only know of her through the heist. If anything, her actions isn't surprising at all especially when people recall her stint as the Black Baron.
      • Before I got Sly 4, I replayed the entire original trilogy in order to familiarize myself with the series again. Playing Sly 3 and Sly 4 back to back made me realize one thing about Penelope. Sly 3 never really goes that deeply into her characterization. She is, for all intents and purposes, a foil for Bentley's character development. Specificaly: his feelings of doubt due to living in Sly's shadow. It's Penelope's attraction to Sly that causes Bentley to ask the question 'what does he have that I don't?'. Not just out of jealousy but also out of desire to better himself and be a larger asset to the team overall. It's her later attraction and actual relationship with Bentley that causes him to ask the much more important question 'what do I have that he doesn't?'. It's through Penelope that Bentley steps out of Sly's shadow and truly grows into his role in the team. This is made more evident when you realize Bentley hardly has a single moment of doubt throughout the entire fourth game (save the realization over who the Black Knight is for understandable reasons). But what do we really know about Penelope herself? We know she's a brilliant machinist and an accomplished fighter pilot, that makes up her skills. We know she can be spunky and fun-loving but serious when she needs to be, that gives us a general idea of her personality. However, I cannot recall a single moment in the third game that gave us a clear idea of her morals or her long term goals past the Cooper Vault job. What I'm trying to say is: while the third game doesn't give much warning of a face heel turn, there's nothing really there that contradicts one either. Don't get me wrong: I like Penelope and it was hard for me to see her turn against the team. But I don't see anything wrong about it from a narrative standpoint. Now whether or not you like the idea of turning Penelope into a villain, here are two things you have to realize. One: This is not the end of the story. The ending made it very clear that there is more to come. Two: Penelope is still at large and her current status remains unknown. That means that Sanzaru is not done with Penelope at all. They still have plans for her which means we don't know everything... yet.
  • This part just bugs me but Dimitri in Thieves in Time is shown being given the Thievius Raccoonus and told to watch and guard it while Sly and the others go through time. You'd expect to see a mission showing him doing that, but instead he does nothing throughout the entire game. He doesn't even talk! With they way they hyped him having learned Sly's moves in the trailer for the game this comes as a disappointment seeing how popular and well received he was.
    • It's the same trick used in the marketing for Wreck-It Ralph. Show popular characters that everyone loves and they'll want to buy it, even if the character has no affect on the plot.
  • I love this series, but...why doesn't Sly know how to lockpick? Is there not a single chapter in the Thievius Raccoonus on lockpicking?
    • Maybe lockpicking is too "common" a skill to be written down? Most of the tricks contained in there are various brands of So Cool It's Awesome, so maybe "basic" thievery skills aren't recorded because it's assumed everyone will already have learned them? Sly didn't have his father to show him the ropes, so he may have missed out on a few "simple" tricks.
    • In Sly 3, Murray suggests that Sly pick the lock of one of the hotels instead of him and Bentley going through a sewer full of mines, so he may know how to in Sly 3 but must only do it off-screen, or he's never had trouble stealing keys for pick-able locks and his friends just assumed he knows how to or would learn it in the time from the plan to this job.
  • There's something that's always bugged me about the boss fight with Muggshot in the first game. When you use the mirrors to destroy his guns, his first reaction is to head upstairs to grab his spare ones. Here's my question: why does he even need them? I mean, he's got this massive, brawny upper body, and it never occurs to him that he can just use his fists?
    • That massive upper body on top of those dinky little legs. He can punch down a vault door with ease, but he isn't built to deal with mobile targets. There is simply no physical way that Muggshot could maneuver well enough to fight up close. Sure, long reach and all, but it's doubtful Muggshot could even really walk at this point. I love the guy, but the only way ol' Muggshot is going to hit something is if it's stationary. Besides, if he decided to punch Sly it would be a One-Hit Kill.
  • At the end of Thieves in Time, Le Paradox uses his forged royal ancestry from Ancient Arabia to essentially take over Paris in the present day. After being defeated, he's immediately arrested and the changes are reversed. But what caused those changes and on what charges was he arrested for? All they did was beat up the guy who's connected to royalty and destroyed his blimp and time machine. And I don't see how destroying the time machine in the present reversed his use of it in the past.
    • It's told in the game (the very cutscene before that chapter, even) that he had tried to be a thief, multiple times, and always failed and got caught. Then when he was let out of prison, he started up an illegal operation of buying and re-selling stolen priceless artifacts. Carmelita not only found this out early in the game, but she managed to snag that Arabian coin as proof, so Interpol had plenty of authorization for his arrest.
  • Why did they introduce the Eleventh Hour Superpower of Sly 3, the laser slide, with an Ass Pull? Sly even says himself that he doesn't know the move necessary for his father's chamber in the Cooper vault.
    • The lazer slide was the signature move of Sly's father, and he would have presumably recorded it if he wasn't suddenly killed. Upon seeing that his father was able to do it he probably tried to give it a shot and was able to do it.
  • This isn't anything major due to certain spoilers in Sly 2, but why the hell would Neyla need a warrant to search the ancient, abandoned temple Rajan is hiding in?
    • It's designated as an archaeological site by the Indian Government? Running about ancient palaces like Rajan's hideout in an official capacity has to involve some amount of red tape.
  • In Thieves in Time, how does Sir Galleth know the Ninja Spire Jump three hundred years before it was invented by Rioichi?
    • I've wondered that myself.
    • Probably so that Galleth wouldn't be missing a key move that Sly has. I guess you could handwave it by saying Sly taught it to him offscreen and instructed him not to record it in the Racoonus to preserve history or something.
  • So in Thieves in Time, Sly gets back together with his closest friends in order to save his family history. Alright, all fine and good. However, what bugs me is that with a whole new extended gang present, how come Sly never invited along Panda King and The Guru on the adventure? Dimitri being behind as mission control makes sense as they need someone to keep track of what's happening in the present, but why not bring the spiritual mind controller and their explosives expert? Would've made some of their experiences a bit easier back then.
    • It's said in the epilogue of Sly 3 that the Panda King retired after the events of the game, living in a small house next to his daughter. It's probable that he declined the invitation so he could concentrate on keeping his daughter safe. As for the Guru, he took on some new (famous) students, and ended up hiding out in New York. It's likely they either couldn't find him or couldn't get in contact with him. Keep in mind that they are almost literally racing against time here, with the words of the Thievious Raccoonus disappearing as they spoke, so it's equally likely that they didn't really have time to contact the Panda King or Guru, and Dimitri just happened to be in the area for them to get in contact with on short notice.
  • WHY did Sly try to leave a calling card at the museum heist in Thieves in Time? I mean, did he really think that leaving a sign screaming he was there would go over well with Carmelita even if she never showed up? And heck, why does he leave a calling card at all? His entire "The Reason You Suck" Speech at Le Paradox is that a Cooper wouldn't blow their cover to show off - but Sly does exactly that by leaving a calling card, doesn't he?
    • Since the Cooper Gang as far as Carmelita knew had six other criminals in them I'm taking that that he thought even if he had left a calling card Carmellita would think that one of his half a dozen incredibly skilled criminal friends had pulled off the heist.

  • Sly says he only steals from other criminals because it's too boring to steal from anybody else, yet in cutscenes in between talking members of the Fiendish Five, we do see him stealing things that don't look like they belong to other criminals the names from the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
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