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Headscratchers: Sin City
  • Hartigan's reason for ending things the way he does never sat well with me. OK, Senator Roark might use Nancy to get to Hartigan a second time. This is a sensible fear, Roark got to be absolutely enraged with the way things turned out, and it's all Hartigan's doing. But with the hero out of the way, I'd think that the first thing Roark would do is have Nancy tracked down, tortured, raped, and killed very slowly, if only because she's the only person left that he can vent that frustration on.
    • Didn't Senator Roark not know where Nancy Callahan was? Junior had found out, by having Hartigan followed, but that particular leak had just been plugged. And by the time Roark finds whatever minions his son had used and debriefs them, she's long gone from there anyway without trace. (After all, they eventuallyhad to use a ruse to get Hartigan to break in prison, as they'd never found the real Nancy.)
      • Roark had no idea where Nancy lived, or even her full name. The break in was a coincidence (Nancy mentions her apartment is broken into at least once or twice a year) and they were bluffing Hartigan into confessing and leading them to Nancy.
  • Come to that, a senator is a public figure. Why doesn't Hartigan just shoot him instead of/as well as himself? The Roark clan is hardly going to get more pissed off with him - he just killed the heir. And since the cardinal's dead as well, this would probably break the family.
    • Hartigan probably figured he could never hope to penetrate the Senator's security cordon, especially not after the death of the Cardinal. Its not an unreasonable assumption... the way the Roark clan works, if it was that easy to kill them, they'd all have been long dead.
      • Uh, the Cardinal is still alive at the end of That Yellow Bastard. The movie is portrayed in non-chronological sequence. Note that Kevin is still alive as Hartigan sneaks onto the farm. Likewise, Marv burned down the barn in which Hartigan confronts Junior. These stories are shown non-chronologically. The Cardinal's death doesn't fit in anywhere here because the Cardinal is still alive.
    • Truth in Television, assassinating a US senator is HARD. There are a lot of crazies out there, if anybody who wanted to kill a politician could there'd be no more politicians.
      • Actually, its not that hard. The USA even had PRESIDENTS killed by crazies (JFK, Lincon, etc.), a Senator is not impossible.
      • There hasn't been a presidential assassination since JFK and a significant attempt (that I know of) since Reagan.
      • However, Hartigan is played by Bruce Willis.
      • Hartigan is no John McClane, though.
      • Why is having no politicians seen as a bad thing?
      • There's a book out there with the premise that politicians don't have any security and killing them isn't a crime. The law is set up that way as a check on political power. I believe it's meant to be satire.
      • On his way to the farm, Hartigan starts coughing up blood and having chest pains again. The fact that he even makes it there and saves Nancy is impressive enough. Bruce Willis or not, given Hartigan's health and the security surrounding the Roark family, he's not gonna make it long enough to find Roark, break into his heavily-guarded compound, and kill him before his heart explodes from sheer ridiculousness.
      • I think the case for the difficulty of assassination is overstated, especially for the universe we are set in. There are less than 1000 premeditated murders in the US, 40 percent of those are taken up by "young people 18-25" with another 44 percent being murders with a "relationship" according to the FBI and DOJ. Doesn't leave much much for the "killing jerk senators" motive percentage. Will it be harder than killing a bus driver or even a "common" senator, yes, that should be conceded.
    • Following The Hard Goodbye and the Cardinal's death, the Roark clan seems to have lost pretty much all its power over Sin City, which would also explain why the mob suddenly has an increased pressence there.

  • Why didn't Kevin do anything to stop Hartigan? For that matter, where the heck was the guard dog/wolf?

  • Also, how does Kevin get bodies to eat and the heads to mount of the prostitutes in Sin City? He's creepy in person, can't talk (except to Cardinal Roark apparently) and if its by the Cardinal's doing, why did it take so long for the Old Town to notice that the girls who work the Clergy tend to "disappear".
    • Kevin is stealthy enough to kill a girl without leaving any trace or marks on her without alerting her or the man in the bed lying nearly on top of her. He doesn't need to talk to anyone to kill them.

  • Why did volume six have no context or explanation for any scene? Does Frank Miller think all of his fans are obsessive lunatics?
    • They were all seperate short stories that had been published elsewhere. This is why you see the title at the beginning of each story, indicating that it's a completely different story. On the front cover, you'll see the names of the stories and the comics in which they were first published.
    • What the Hell was the point of the scene in volume six that, also, began the movie?
      • If I remember correctly, The Hitman is the Big Bad of the Graphic novels. I suppose it was just fanservice.
      • Haven't either of you ever heard of vignettes? Those scenes are there to establish the mood of the film. And besides, as the film is already a compilation of stories, what's the harm in just having two more which are incredibly short and just cut to the kill?
      • This Trooper was always under the impression the first and last scene were part of the same story, leading to a rather satisfactory circular feeling to the whole movie (Giving the impression that there's always a story happening somewhere in Sin City).
      • I thought the point of the scene was summed up quite nicely with the final line, "I'll cash her check in the morning." What all of this has to do with being obsessive lunatics, though...
      • It does. At the risk of explaining too much, the girl called the hit on herself. She'd gotten into some kind of trouble where she felt having herself killed was the only way to escape whatever horrible fate she foresaw.
    • Robert Rodriguez shot that scene in one day to show Miller how he wanted to do things, and said "worst case scenario: we both walk away with a cool short film". Miller loved the scene and agreed to do a whole movie and thus, that scene was added in at the start of the movie. Word of God, yes, it's on the special edition DVD. And yes, it's part of the end scene, which is totally new for the film

  • Exactly how old was Eileen (John Hartigan's wife)? John himself was "pushing sixty" at the beginning of That Yellow Bastard. Eight years later he leaves prison to find out that Eileen divorced him, got remarried, and had three kids. I know that with the prolonged life expectancy of the Western world, women tend to have children much later than in older times, but it's still not plausible she was John's age. She could have been in her early forties at best, which would still make her about twenty years younger than John. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just... a bit weird.
    • It is not unheard of for women to have children at 50 or even 60 in the US. Sorry if that Squicks anyone.
    • I assumed he was more pushing fifty and even then he was he had to be aging badly due to first his job second prison his wife also could've been younger so he's really forty five she's forty and has three kids over the eight prior years. Completely plausible.
    • At the beginning, it's mentioned that he's pushing sixty, which means he was pushing seventy during the second half. Eileen shows up in the original comic and as part of the Director's Cut. The comic version seemed younger than Hartigan. I can't recall what she looked like in the Director's Cut.
      • She was played by Babs George in the Director's Cut, and is considerably younger than Hartigan. Incidentally, Babs George looks exactly like Hartigan's wife in the comics.

  • If the letters being delivered to Hartigan in jail were the only things keeping his sanity intact, why didn't Roark just have the letters stopped? It shouldn't be hard for a man with that much influence. Why didn't they pull their little finger-in-the-envelope ruse much sooner?
    • They were holding out on Nancy providing some sort of clue. As long as they let it keep going, they had something to use.

  • How come Hartigan is seen as a White Knight Fair Cop when he was about to murder somebody in cold blood and is partner Bob was considered a Big Bad Friend for stopping him. He probably saved both their lives by doing so because the target was still human and it is against the law to kill him. Plus he is part of a very wheal connected family and the cops had been specifically been given orders not to kill him. Did Hartigann think that he could just kill him and retire peacefully? By non-fatally shooting him Bob probably saved both their lives and definitely his place on the police force.
    • He's usually considered a Cowboy Cop or Knight in Sour Armor, not a White Knight Fair Cop. At any rate, Hartigan was probably going to cover up the death. It's not legal but at the same time, Junior was raping and killing little girls and Hartigan knew for a fact that it was going to keep happening. The cops were unwilling to do anything. As for Bob, he more than willing to threaten a little girl and allow a rapist/serial killer to go free and be an accomplice in framing his partner. {{Understatement That's not the nicest thing to do}}. And he didn't save Hartigan's place on the police force and, for all he knew, Hartigan was going to be killed. Shooting an old man, turning him over to the mafia, and letting him go to a federal prison for child rape is likely going to get him killed at some point.
    • Hartigan is a White Knight and a fair cop by Sin City standards. His main priority is justice, and since the legal system in Sin City is so corrupt the only way justice could be had is by killing Junior.
    • Hartigan effectively caught Junior in the act, and Junior shot Hartigan in the shoulder. Hartigan could have easily claimed it was self defense and that killing Junior was a necessary use of lethal force in the line of duty, and had Bob not interfered, he might have been able to expose the corruption and possibly bring down Senator Roark.

      Bob's intention was to prevent Hartigan from doing any damage to the Roark clan, and Junior ending up dead when backup arrived would potentially put the Roarks into a position they can't get out of, if not outright destroy them. So, thanks, Bob.

  • Why do fans of the movie treat Senator Roark like he is evil when he is more of a Designated Antagonist. The closest thing he did to what can be considered villainous was getting the man who severely injured and tried to kill his son locked up for 20 years. While it is true his son is a serial rapist and his brother is even worse we do not see him do anything wrong himself.
    • He doesn't lock Hartigan up for injuring his son, he framed him for his son's actions out of spite. And it wasn't due to some misguided love either, he was just angry at Hartigan for ruining his chances of continuing his own legacy through the son, who he was grooming to become the next president. He even refers to Junior as a "Dickless freak", and Junior himself openly hates him. Most likely for good reason. He probably could have got Hartigan locked up for the rest of his life for trying to kill Junior alone, but instead he goes completely out of his way to not only ruin his reputation, but allows his son to pursue a revenge plot a good 10 years onwards, which would've involved killing at least one innocent person.
    • Let's also not forget that he threatened to kill anyone Hartigan told the truth to. In the comic, he mentioned that he killed his wife with a baseball bat and gloated that he got away with it simply because he was powerful enough to.
      • I think he says it in the extended version.
    • And there's that little thing how Senator is the one pulling strings so that his son can go on his little raping and killing sprees, and never get prosecuted for it. He's fully aware of his son's preferences and not only accepts, but also actively aids him in fulfilling them.
    • Wonder why the Senator didn't just get a new wife. He already killed the old one with a baseball bat and his first son is a dickless child raping/killing freak so if he want's to continue his line, a new kid seems like the way to go.
      • Vasectomy? Maybe he's got a naturally low sperm count? More than likely he's just aware that he's getting on in years and isn't sure he'll be fit enough to raise a new kid entirely from scratch.
      • It's implied that him murdering his first wife is an Open Secret in-universe (since he left proof and used his political power to avoid being punished for his crime), so maybe he tried to get a new wife but those women knew what he did and wouldn't let him get that close to them.
      • Wouldn't he have the resources to have a child raised by someone else? He doesn't seem like a very involved parent in his only scene.
      • Reversing a vasectomy is a lot easier than reconstructing an amputated penis. It's more likely that the Senator'd had testicular cancer, or some other illness, that left him irreversibly infertile.

  • This may seem dumb but why is it Marv can survive the most extreme injuries? I won't except Made of Iron as an answer
    • Well, for one Marv is a pretty big guy, so he probably can take more of a beating than a 'runt' can.
      • Two, Marv supposedly has some PTSD issues (and a medal?) he got for being a Nam War Vet (possibly even as a Marine) so he likely has combat experience and knows how to deal with the punishing rigors of battle.
      • Three, as someone with a mental illness, he may actually be Blessed with Suck in the sense that he has Power Bornof Madness. Marv may owe his unfettered strength, indifference to pain and rather intimidating physique to the fact that he is nuts. (Even Marv admits he hallucinates and is worried about his sanity with "medicine")
      • Four, motivation. A combination of the The Dulcinea Effect, Because You Were Niceto Me, Powerof Love and Roaring Rampageof Revenge with a bit of Sociopathic Hero tossed in and you have Marv. The Determinator!
      • Five, dumb luck. Lampshaded a bit by Marv that despite the many bullets fired at (and hit) him just after killing the Cardinal, the last target of his Roaring Rampageof Revenge, not ONE bullet gets his heart or head.
  • These are all good reasons but here's a list of all his injuries in THE HARD GOODBYE.
    • Shot 3 times earlier in the book,then shot at least 6 times later at the end.
    • Crashes through a window and lands in a pile of trash bags from at least 20 feet.
    • Jumps through a police car front window.
    • Run over by Wendy.
    • Gets kicked in the throat,face,and mouth by Kevin.
    • Gets his eyes slashed by Kevin.
    • Hit in the head by a sledgehammer by Kevin.
    • Slams himself repeatedly into a metal door until it breaks.
    • Pistol whipped by Wendy 6 times.
    • Gets shot in head and lower shoulder by Wendy.
    • Gets his wrist slashed twice by Kevin.
    • Kicked 6 times by Kevin later in the book.
    • Finally,has to be electrocuted TWICE before dying.
      • Actual electrocutions aren't often one shot deals. It can take two or more jolts to execute the condemned, and most states that use it have a policy of several jolts lasting a number of seconds, with a period of time between each jolt, during which time the assisting physician checks if the condemned is alive or dead. If dead, the execution is concluded, if alive, it continues until they are dead.
    • Come on,be serious.Just because he's bigger then a normal person doesn't mean injuries hurt less.True,being in the military can help him deal with the punishing rigors of battle But it's pushing it.Even if he's crazy it doesn't mean he can shrug off injuries.Just because you can ignore pain,doesn't mean you're body doesn't respond to it.It doesn't matter that he was on a roaring rampage of revenge to get revenge for someone that was nice to him,motivation can't help you shrug off wounds that would kill a normal person.Even if you get lucky and the bullets don't hit him in any vital organs or arteries,if you get shot as much times as Marv has you still won't be able to deal with the pain and will probably be dead or passed out.The worst part is he just puts tiny band aids on his face and he's ready again.Somebody explain it to me and try to be more clear,maybe with real life examples that are like this.
      • Here's the thing, and I'd recommend you sit down and brace yourself for this because it may blow your mind, but Sin City isn't supposed to be very realistic. This is a series in which surviving multiple gunshots to the vitals, carrying guns that blow limbs off and propel people backwards, entire sections of cities are basically hostilely taken over by prostitutes, and criminal networks hiring elaborate assassins dressed as ninjas is considered normal. Seriously, you're being needlessly pedantic and finicky over a fictional series being, god forbid, unrealistic. I'm sorry you won't accept Made of Iron as an answer, because no matter which way you spin it, that's the only correct one.
      • And let's not forget how Miho was completely unharmed after having a grenade landing at her feet... because she jumped backwards. Apparently she is immune to shock waves and shrapnel.
      • Made of Iron isn't even necessary. Marv being the protagonist in an action story is enough to explain why he doesn't die until the story needs him to.
  • Actually, some of the Real Life Made of Iron examples make Marv look unimpressive in comparison.

  • How come a US senator didn't have the resources to locate one girl when Hartigan was seemingly able to go straight to her apartment to problem?
    • Hartigan knew Nancy's name, so he just looked up her address. Presumably, Roark just didn't know that Nancy's last name was Callahan.
      • Couldn't he just check the police reports from the original kidnapping? Her name had to be listed somewhere. And as a powerful politician, he should be able to get past the normal privacy protections used for underage victims. Especially given the rampant corruption in every other aspect of Basin City.
    • It's possible it would look too suspicious if the would-be victim of a convicted and incarcerated serial rapist/child murderer "disappeared" while the "official" culprit was behind bars (her telling the truth to her parents probably wouldn't help). The Roarks probably never did anything about her because Junior was too busy raping and murdering other girls without Hartigan to stop him. It's probable that even if they figured out that Nancy was sending the letters, they would have simply stopped letting Hartigan have them.

  • How in the world was Hardigan's pistol shot able to blow off Roark Junior's hand? In Death Note when Matsuda shot Light's hand, Light only bled from his veins, not like Junior's case. Shouldn't the bullet from Hardigan's gun just leave a hole in Roark Junior's hand, like when Rickety Cricket from It's Always Sunny in Philly got shot in the hand and he still had his hand.
    • Because this is Sin City, not Death Note.
      • What's that suppose to mean? Are you trying say Death Note's example is unrealistic compared to Sin City's example. Aside from the death gods and the notebook itself, Death Note is fairly realistic, unlike for example the "branches of sin" blood manipulation abilities from Deadman Wonderland or the shit that goes on in GTA.
      • What it's supposed to mean is they're two different works, and don't work as a comparison for one another. It's also supposed to mean that Sin City is clearly and deliberately over-the-top in its depiction of violence. It's like saying that Dragon Ball is unrealistic because Bruce Wayne can't shoot energy balls out of his hands in Batman Begins.
    • Hollow Point rounds.
      • But then wouldn't that mean when Hartigin shot Junior's ear off, the impact would of resulted in Junior dying of a headshot. There is some inconsistency involving the strength of bullet shots towards Roark Junior's ear and hand, because in the case of Dale Denton, he had part of his ear blown off, and in the space ripper stingy eyes' incident, Jonathan had a hole in his hand from the attack.
      • Not really. Hitting a flimsy piece of cartilage like the ear is way different from hitting a mass of muscle and bone like the hand. Hitting the muscle and bone of a hand is going to be enough to make a hollow-point bullet explode, which could blow off the hand—but hitting the ear doesn't offer nearly the same amount of resistance, so there's nothing there to make the bullet explode.
      • Hollow points are not explosive. They expand and create nasty wounds, but do not explode.

  • Is Junior's hand a artificial prosthetic or was it sewn back on after his amputation / castration. Also wouldn't it be symbolic if Hardigen cut off Junior's ear and hand before Junior's death, otherwise there is no point in shooting in the ear and hand if he was aiming for Junior's genitals. Kinda disrespects some awesome fictional amputees in a way by indirectly putting them on the same boat.
    • anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but well according to Junior, Senator Roark paid top surgeons to repair, in his words "the equipment between his legs". Junior never mentioned anything about his "blown off" ear and hand, so we can guess the police managed to fetch his severed appendages and attached them back together except for his "weapon". then again that's from the movie, I don't know how the graphic novel explained how Junior's ear and hand were reattached.
      • I guess that's a possible explanation but then why does he have the need to wear gloves, even when he's basically streaking before he dies. I mean is it similar to Bloodedge from Calamity Trigger where he hides his missing arm with his jacket, but then again that's due him being in a fighting game trying to avoid the [1] problem with Bloodedge's artificial arm. Now that I think about wouldn't it be awesome if someone made a Sin City fighting game?
  • what was Junior trying to do when he injected Nancy with his "urine blood". also if Junior needed to be "erect", then why didn't he bring some kid along in case Nancy wasn't willing to "comply". since Junior only gets it up from screaming and kids, since Nancy being an adult doesn't make him erect.
    • Where did you ever get the idea that he injected her with his own urine? It's obviously supposed to be some sort of tranquilizer that was colored yellow because it's a Color Motif. Also, you're thinking way too hard about Junior "getting it up".
      • about the injection, it looked like it was some of Junior's bodily fluids like blood or urine. and the stuff about Junior's "erectile dysfunction", I figured with all that money he had, Junior at least had a back-up plan like boner pills. because it seems like they made the Yellow Bastard to be a serious threat in his story when he was harmless (since Hartigan took him out twice) compared Kevin and the one-eyed guy (forgot his name). and also isn't the Yellow Bastard story more psychologically plot-driven then the other Sin City stories. I don't know maybe its wishful thinking on my part to expect more out of Junior's character or maybe I'm reading too much into Sin City's story.
      • I don't think Frank Miller had any alternate interpretations on rather how if Junior gets off only by screaming and it explains why he targets kids or if Nancy's claim about Junior's impotence was untrue and she only said that to startle him. I doubt there is suppose to be any depth to Junior's character other than him being a pedophile. If you were expecting That Yellow Bastard to be a deep profound story, you're reading the wrong book.

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