Headscratchers: Scott Pilgrim
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- How, exactly, does subspace work? I mean, I know it's supposed to be a plot device more than anything, but still...why does it only seem to pop up at the most convenient of times, why don't all the characters use it as a form of transportation instead of taking the bus or driving in a car, does it cost any money to use (does it use tollbooths, for example?), why does it run through Scott's brain...seriously, did O'Malley even think the thing out before he put in the story?
- Let me answer your questions starting with the last; no, O'Malley deliberately put it in there at random; just like other aspects of the series, you're not supposed to question it. But since you've already broken that rulenote , I'll give you my best guess as to them. Continuing along, how it works is assumed to be the general rule of subspace, it is a pocket dimension that is smaller than ours, and so as the user crosses from point A to point B, represented by doors with stars on them in the series, they travel more space in the "real world" than they do in the sub-world. It pops up at convenience due to, at worst, bad writing, but it can be explained away by there being so many subspace doors scattered around that you can't go a block without encountering one. Also, Ramona knows where they all are. There is no toll (we see Scott use one in volume 4 and I think they'd mention if he had to pay). The reason no-one ever uses them is addressed in volume 1, when Ramona comments that they don't teach about subspace in Canadian schools. In America, they are a commonplace, well-known means of travel which everybody knows about, and likely get a lot of traffic (picture an elevator at the mall that everybody's trying to get to). In Canada, however, they're deserted because they're not very well advertised. And, lastly, Scott having a subspace highway running through his head is just one of those weird quirks in the series, possibly saying that Scott's mind works on a different frequency than everyone else's. I'd imagine there are a handful of other people with the same issue throughout the Pilgrimverse, maybe one in every 20-30 people has one. This just means that some part of Scott's mental space is partially in subspace. Did that help?
- This is sort of a stupid question, but do they ever provide any plausible explanation for why everyone's eyes are black?
- It's just the drawing style. The characters have actual eye colors that we can't see.
- Stephen Stills should not be able to get that guitar sound in the movie out of an acoustic guitar....
- Electric acoustic guitars exist, yo. It's plugged in whenever they're playing.
- To clarify: even if an acoustic guitar has a microphone taped to the inside of it for the amplifiers, you can run the cable through various filters like chorus, distortion, phaser, etc pedals. It doesn't usually sound as clean as having an electric guitar with fancy pickups, but I really don't think that a clean sound is what they were going for...thus this is completely ok to have a busted up acoustic guitar playing that part. Also justified in that these guys don't seem to be made of money so rather than even buying a cheapo electric he's using some third-hand acoustic guitar held together by duct tape.
- I can't remember if the order of events was different in the comics, but in the film Scott gets the email from Matthew Patel after he's barely had one awkward conversation with Ramona. How did The League of Evil Exes know they would eventually date?
- Because the League is so obsessed with Ramona that they won't even let her have the chance to date anyone else, thus one awkward conversation is all it takes for them to try and kill someone.
- Most likely the League found out through Stacey's "Mass text message" about the situation.
- The idea of the evil exes being on Stacey's mailing list is far funnier to me than it should be.
- Why hasn't anyone arrested Scott for running around murdering people? Why is nobody freaked out that the local guy is killing the ex-boyfriends of his girlfriend and are treating it like some sort of minor inconvenience? It's Nightmare Fuel if you think about it. Furthermore, since the world is based partially on videogames and River City Ransom, why doesn't anyone ever respawn or have extra lives or do they respawn offscreen and just decide to avoid Scott and Ramona from now on?
- Probably the respawning thing. Hasn't it been said that they have all menaced other people who tried to date Ramona?
- The film at least gives evidence to the respawning theory. When fighting Roxy, Ramona tells Scott her weakness is the back of her knees, and he just taps them. Roxy instantly starts convulsing in pleasure (cuz it's funny) and then bursts into coins. Scott just barely touched her weakness, and its implied that Ramona paid special attention to that area "when [they] were making out" and if one tap caused her to burst into coins one can assume Ramona would get similar results from whatever they were doing. Since Roxy is still alive post being dumped, one can assume all the evil exes can indeed respawn. As to why they don't bother any main characters after that, theres probably some unspoken League rule that says if they lose they have to leave Scott and Ramona alone from now on... Or they'll be around for a sequel.
- In the movie, Roxie mentioned that she can only be defeated by Scott thanks to League rules. Since Ramona had delivered a pretty sound beatdown earlier, the back-of-knee-poke was probably Cherry Tapping.
- Word of God from the author's tumblr states that the evil exes "respawn in their homes, having learned their lesson."
- No - Gideon was Ramona's last boyfriend, and he formed the league after she dumped him. Between the league forming and Ramona meeting Scott, it seems there hasn't been anyone else.
- we're talking about a world in which dead people POOF and drop coins, sodas have stat bonuses instead of nutritional information, travel through people's dreams is completely commonplace, and the "Power Of Love" means you can pull a Katana from your chest, and you're wondering why the cops aren't interested in murder?
- Perhaps this is the purpose of the Save Point we saw once; people can't die in the Scott Pilgrim World, but they get a game over and restart far away from where they lost. Alternatively, they don't matter because they're just NPCs, and Scott's the only one who is real. And he's not afraid of death because he can respawn, too. Or maybe the fights to the death are perfectly legal in this 'verse, because the League of Evil Ex-Boyfriends is a registered union.
- Perhaps this heavily-influenced-by-comics-and-games version of Toronto takes a form of Quantum Immortality into account? Think of this scenario: you kill someone, they turn into coins, and as far as you're concerned they remain dead. To them, they get a Game Over and either restart the game anew or continue from an earlier Save or Checkpoint. They can come back and kill you (or be killed by you, of course) - if they win then you will remain dead. However you shall never know this, because from your perception they are the deceased, and you two carry on in your lives within your own separately saved games.
- River City Ransom, which provided most of the Scott Pilgrim world's mechanics, didn't actually have a Game Over screen. If you died, you respawned at the last mall you visited, but with half your money gone. The enemies did the same thing, though. Whenever you left their screen and came back, they'd be back again.
- Contrary to what a certain XKCD comic says, when you die in Canada you don't die in real life.
- Because he's not murdering people. He's killing them in self-defense.
- At least some of them would count as murder. When he headbutts Todd so hard the man bursts, the situation lacks the immediacy necessary to count as self-defense. Patel gets steamrollered so much that it'd be difficult to prove he has the ability to seriously damage Scott (necessary to show legal self-defense), although Canadian caselaw on whether fireballs count as deadly weapons is not exactly complete. Enemies respawning once you leave the screen is thematically appropriate for the setting, so it's a good justification even if there's no evidence. On the downside, that means Gideon's still wandering around, although losing seven million (Canadian) dollars might be enough punishment.
- This would explain the film crew being so blase about the death-by-skateboard-explosion of their big star, too.
- That and only fight that could even begin to count as murder is Mathew Patel (Because he was a complete twit who didn't know what he was getting into and got the HP thoroughly beaten out of him). Lucas was death by misadventure (Not directly caused by Scott), Todd was self defence even if the Vegan Police stripped him of his power, Roxy had a sword so you can't call the No Self Defence rule there (You can't go to jail for being a pussy), the twins had kidnapped someone with intent to murder who came after them so that's a shaky one and finally Gideon himself outright killed Scott so that one would count as self defence.
- Todd's death was outright murder. Self defence doesn't really fly, as Todd had just been rendered helpless. Scott actively went for the kill on the helpless Todd. It could have been justified if Todd was actually a danger, but at this point, he wasn't.
- In my opinion it largely depends on how much are you going to consider as true In-Universe events. If you think about it, especially while reading the first issue, Scott constantly boasts about how awesome he is, how he had beat up an entire school of bad guys (while he had lost to just three bullies on his first day of school) or how he calls out for a Deus Ex Machina just a panel before the Vegan Police shows up. Although neglecting the entire settings of the comics would also mean renouncing on pretty much the whole plot of Scott Pilgrim, Scott making up a lot of the events narrated would make sense even if all the videogame mechanics were true. For example, his breaking up with Knives takes only 2 panels in the comic, with the only reaction from Knives being nodding her head. Although you may argue that it had been cut in order not to lose focus from the plot, it seems just a tad too unrealistic that you only see how Knives reacted in a completely different issue. Talk about being ego-centric. It gets worse when you think about the first evil-ex boyfriend fight, where Patel actually denounces fighting for Ramona. While the movie had the decency to make Knives faint, she's more than awake during the fight in the comic book, to the point of joining Scout and the band in their own choreography. It's something that seems very unlikely, seeing how protective and vindicative Knives is. Furthermore, the way Young Neil is described as a living prop, how Scott is oblivious to Stephen Stills being...what the sixth comic revealed him to be and the way he and all the other characters refer to Other Scott as, well, Other Scott (even Wallace, who, being in "love" with him, should have preferred him over his straight room-mate, or at the least called him just "Scott) show how egocentric Scott is and how unreliable as a narrator he is. Finally, as a nitpicking bonus, everyone else but Scott and Ramona is called by their first name and surname form. It really looks more like Scott recollecting the facts and informing the audience about the people he knew, just like you do when you talk about your long-missed or forgotten classmates to a friend, while only using the first name for the people he thinks are the most important in his life.
- Easy. He's living in a comic book, emulating video games. All the characters have an excellent fourth wall awareness, so they know in what world they live. Almost all they know all the video game mechanichs, like saving points, extra-lives, coins, and such. It's a living video game. So, Scott being a total fan on these, he's living his life the way he knows it: playing a video game. There are respawns surely, there are continues, as it was shown in all the volumes, there are EX Ps., so you can take it all as symbolisms of life through a MMORPG. You don't feel shame when you kill someone on Counter-Strike of Mario Bros., so why should Scott, of the others, who are living in a self-aware video game Canada, worry about it? They know it's all a video game (just the fights and some things, of course, as the relationships and all that are too real).
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki9oYZcVzcI&feature=feedf Word of God says they respawn.
- As a friend of this Troper noted upon seeing the movie for the first time, "So... the vaguely autistic guy goes on a rampage in a night club with a sword?"
- Guys, this is really simple: What does it say each time Scott beats one of them? "KO!" As in "Knocked Out". Not killed.
- Actually the "KO!" only happens on the first and last exes, signifying the start and the end of the league.
- Simple: the Scott Pilgrim world acts like a video game, right? Well, it must be a video game where it doesn't matter if you murder people. Problem solved.
- Ok, if most of the characters (Scott, Stephen, Wallace) went to University of Toronto then why do they all work at such entry level-jobs? Stills is a cook for a fastfood restaurant and Wallace seems to be some sort of Customer Service Rep.
- They probably all just dropped out- I mean they're all slackers and colleges at that level * do* have high dropout rates.
- You can ask that in THIS economy??
- Three words "Liberal Arts Degrees."
- do not mock those of us with Liberal Arts Degree's, there's a reason why we become teachers and college professors.
- It should probably be noted, in case there's any confusion, that in Canada, the terms "college" and "university" are somewhat interchangeable - as in high school graduates can go directly into "university" the following year. The only difference is that, in general terms, one goes to "college" to learn practical trades (mechanics, farming, plumbing, etc.) with hands-on courses, while "university" is oriented more towards theoretical coursework. As someone attending an Ontario university, let me tell you: while going to college pretty much guarantees you work after graduating, a university graduate (who'd be 22, like the characters) tends not to do as well (with some exceptions; generally, commerce and hard science students find work in their field somewhat easily, but all of the characters strike me as general art majors [music, english, etc.], and definitely not commerce or engineer students).
- That, and it's never made clear if Scott actually graduated or not thanks to his Laser-Guided Amnesia
- Scott explicitly states that he "remembers graduating", so it's safe to assume that Scott and Stephen graduated (jury's out on Envy and Wallace). But, as a college graduate with an entry-level full-time job, I can say that it's not even slightly strange that they have shitty jobs.
- Considering Wallace has a full-time job in some white-collar profession, he probably did graduate. As for Scott and Stephen, maybe it's because of their majors. Though with Scott, some of his time after Envy dumped was a blut.
Wallace at the party
- This is a tiny one, but why wasn't Wallace at Scott's 24th birthday party?
- Wallace isn't that close with Scott's other friends, they probably didn't invite him.
- And? Birthdays are supposed to be about the person whose birthday it is and thus their friends are invited no matter how close they are to the rest of the guests. It might be different if the Wallace and Scott's other friends hated each other but they didn't.
- Or he was busy working
- The guy let Scott live in his place and eat his food for far longer than Stephen or Kim ever did. It was probably because he didn't have time to go to the party.
- Why didn't Scott sell Lucas Lee's Mithril Skateboard at the nearest We Buy Anything store? Assuming mithril is as valuable in this setting as it is in most depictions, he'd have no money problems anymore.
- Maybe the skateboard has Bind on Pick up?
- Actually I think it poofed out of existence when Scott said he didn't pick up the skateboard proficiency in grade 5.
- That's exactly what happened, and the skill he learned in place of "skateboard proficiency" is an excellent case of Chekov's Gun.
- I presume that skill is his "longsword proficiency", he was talking about when he got the "power of love" in volume 4(http://scott-pilgrim.com/comics/SP_Series/04/179 ).
Ramona, Scott, and Knives
- Why did it take about five volumes for Ramona to figure out that Scott was with Knives while he was courting Ramona? Did every single one of them conveniently forget about Knives kissing Scott in full view of both Ramona, and all of his friends? After which, they all stared at him for an explanation? He ends up retreating to the back stage, and then everyone never brings it up again. I would've thought by volume five, it was common knowledge that Scott had cheated on Knives with Ramona... but I guess not.
- I read that scene as Ramona arriving just after the kiss and Scott running away to avoid having to introduce everyone.
Stephen Still in vol 6
- Stephen Still's Suddenly Sexuality in Vol. 6. Just...seemed like such an Ass Pull. And with Joseph? They've been working together, sure, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. At least if this was done with Niel or someone who's been close to him for a long while, it'd be less of a problem.
- Stephen just has a thing for assholes.
- They hint at it at least twice, though. Neil's "Captain Homo" comment in Book 5 and Knives laughing at Scott's question of whether or not she was dating Stephen.
- It was pretty subtly hinted at to be honest. I mean, Joseph explicitly said that he found Stephen attractive in Book 4, plus there's the fact that despite "months of work" mostly by Stephen and Joseph on the Sex Bob-Omb album, it ended up only being 17 minutes long...obviously they were up to something else during all that time...I think the Stephen/Knives misdirection made it look like more of an Ass Pull than it was.
- Going back through the books definitely makes his spending lots of time with Joseph more noticeable.
- These two pages, back in volume four, don't seem innocent AT ALL once you actually know what happens next.
- What two pages? Could you be more specific? The other end of the links just say Account Suspended.
Gideon in the book
- Gideon's plot in the book. I couldn't understand the parts with the handbag being Ramona's soul, or how Gideon was in Ramona's head as he was fighting Scott, or the whole business of the glow and subspace he mentioned making a profit of. Can someone help me please?
- Subspace allow someone to jump through subconscious to subconscious from dreaming (Either through sleep or lost in thought). When Ramona goes through the Subspace, she pays a price: Gideon can follow them wherever he goes and do whatever he wants (A fraction of the profits goes to Gideon), he used to mess around with Scott and his friend as well as stalk her when Scott started falling in love with Ramona. Ramona's handbag is the collective of her various personalities she had adopted to escape from her past, namely Gideon. The original Ramona who met Gideon could never leave that memory behind and it took Scott entering Ramona's mind to get him out of her head.
- I still don't understand it. He explicitly mentions that whatever the heck he's doing traps people in their own heads. So how does this tie into dream-jumping? What does this mean for the books' story as perceived by the reader (or, simply, how much of the events of the books are real in-universe?) It's never really given any antiquate explanation—and I'm not asking for real-world logic (that would be impossible), just something less cryptic and an accurate descriptor of what was done. "Trapping people in their heads" and "using subspace to her advantage" doesn't tell us anything, it's just confusing.
- Reading Volume 4, this started to make a bit of sense about dream-jumping. When Scott first attempted to go through subspace himself, Scott was going through minds which in his case ran into Ramona during her vulnerable moment of being angry with Scott and remembering her days Gideon. Gideon, being inside her mind uses this opportunity to attempt and trap Scott within his own mind namely triggering his worst side of himself: Negascott. Remember he just nearly became an evil exe when he nearly had sex with Lisa, but that incident was good enough for Gideon to play around with.. I will try and decipher the "Subspace use by Ramona later"
- My interpretation is this. Subspace is a way of teleporting by traveling through a world made of people's dreams and subconscious. Ramona has tied her personal subspace into her bag so she can have a bag of holding. (We've seen this is part of regular subspace as well, as Scott ended up there once by accident). The handbag isn't so much part of her soul as it was the most convenient subspace door to reach her mind (since that's where it opens up and it was the closest physically to Scott). Gideon's glow attack traps people in their own heads, not literally, but forcing them to deal with their own darkness. But Ramona's darkness is running away from her problems. Because Ramona can travel subspace (which is part of your head) and because her darkness is running away, she was able to use the glow to instantly travel to subspace which is how she disappears in a bright light.
Kim and Lee
- So Gideon screwed with Scott's memory of fighting Simon Lee. Then why would Kim dream that Lee kills Scott?
- I guess it was because, despite how Scott remembered it, they actually both screwed Simon Lee over. So she dreamed about Scott being killed by Simon because she felt guilty or whatever?
Ramona in Canada
- Ramona's reason for being around. It ain't easy for Americans to work in Canada without either a lot of money or a really unique skill, since the government is pretty protective of jobs. One could argue that subspace is a really unique skill, but even then Amazon doesn't have private delivery people.
- I guess subspace makes quick, private delivery possible. The extra shipping charge for subspace is probably ridiculous, though.
- Maybe she, despite being called "American Delivery Ninja", is not an American citizen, but rather a Canadian citizen(either Canadian-born or naturalized).
Scott & sex
- Possible question about Scott's sexual history, did he really slept with Kim and Envy or was Ramona really his first? And I wonder why all of his sexual encounters always been of the "dry sex" variety.
- That's a very good question, maybe when Gideon said he spiced up a few of Scott's memories, he added those or made them more exciting. I consider that part of my personal Fanon.
- Out of genuine curiosity, I remember separate panels of Scott under blankets with Kim and Envy, but when was it implied Ramona was his first? Or that Kim and Envy were only "dry sex"?
- There was no mention. The OP is wondering about whether Scott actually had sex with Kim & Envy because Gideon specifically mentioned that he'd screwed with Scott's memories which has cast Scott's entire backstory into doubt with some people.
- Why did Scott blow up Todd? The Evil Exes gave him ample opportunity to leave Ramona be, but when Todd loses his powers and ceases to be a real threat, Scott, without waiting for him to attack, "kills" him.
- 'Cause them's the rules. You don't let the boss live after you've stunned them!
- The rules of the duels were "to the death". Ergo, the duel doesn't end 'til one person's dead.
- Really? In the movie they only ever say Scott has to defeat the evil exes, not kill them. Todd was pretty much defeated.
- It was specified in the email Patel sent out, in the cinematographic version of Punctuated! For! Emphasis! in fact: the camera focused on "duel" then cut to "to" "the" "death" in sequence.
- Maybe Pattel just wanted a duel to the death, he's a pretty flamboyant guy. He could have added that part.
- The only time "defeat" is used is when Ramona is talking to Scott, and it's to correct him when he says he has to "fight" them. But yes, the initial e-mail specifies it's to the death.
- Scott DID say he would pay for his crimes against humanity. Crime of passion? Reclaiming his manhood after Todd beat him in the Bass Battle? Perhaps he was Genre Savvy enough to know that if he left Todd, Todd would've come back with a vengeance. Plus, Todd was a pretty big dude, chances are he could still beat up Scott. Though that's going by the movie.
- Besides, who said that de-veganization was permanent? Perhaps Todd could restore his powers in time.
- So, in the beginning of the film, it's established that Knives is 17. Then, partway through, she invites Scott to meet her parents for her birthday party. But then afterward, she's still identified as being 17. Eh?
- I assume you mean the movie, because I couldn't find a mention of her birthday when she invites Scott to meet her parents in Volume 2. Word of God is that the film takes place within the span of a few weeks or so, rather than the year-plus of the graphic novels, so one assumes her birthday still hadn't taken place by the end of the film. It seems safe to say that a naive, over-eager 17-year-old who's "in love" with the first boy she ever kissed would probably invite him to her birthday far, far in advance of its actual date.
- The movie, when he breaks up with her, just before that she invites him to her birthday dinner within a week. It's possible the rest of the movie occurred between this scene and her Birthday, I suppose.
- Also, if she was eighteen by the time of the second round of the TIBB, the use of Broken Social Scene's "Anthems for a Seventeen Year Old Girl" wouldn't have made any sense...
- The last time she's referred to as "17 Years Old" is on-screen immediately after Stills' "we need stalkers!" comment, and before dying her hair. If we really want to analyse this and are determined it must have happened before the film's end (I personally don't remember the "next week" part of the invitation to the dinner), it's entirely possible her birthday took place between the hair-dying scene and the Clash at Demonhead concert (which was a few days of time), or between the Roxy fight and the Katayanagi fight (which was also probably a few days), since it's strongly implied the Katayanagi fight and the Gideon fight were actually the same night (Scott gets home after moping and talking to Stacy, and Wallace hears about the break-up for the first time. The Gideon fight is immediately after). Since it's never explicitly stated when her birthday is, I assume that if it was the filmmakers' intention she had a birthday before the Katayanagi fight, they figured nobody would be keeping track and they could still play an awesome Broken Social Scene song.
- Read the book sometime! In the last book Knives tells Scott she turned 17 the day they met, so the birthday she invites Scott to would be her 17th. Personally, my family constantly has parties on weekends if the actual birth-date is in the middle of the week, for example.
- Why is the Chaos Theatre considered level 7 when there were only five boss battles (and thus five levels) before that?
- 7 exes, 7 levels, presumably the twins are both 5 & 6
- In the game, Stage 6 is a trek through the woods, with the boss being Nega-Scott. In the books that could be the case as well.
- Level 1 is wooing Ramona?
- This has very little bearing on the plot, but is this one of those systems where you lose your progress when you respawn? Considering poor Scott never seems to level the entire movie (until he gets to Gideon), it seems fairly cruel to make him lose the level he gained the first time around. Even if the new one does offer better stats.
- None of the old-school, 8- or 16-bit games that Scott Pilgrim's inspired by had automatic saves. I totally wish they did. On the other hand, I don't know of any games that made 1UP's into automatic save points either, so I can't tie the movie's logic to any specific examples. As a side thing, if the movie's like the Scott Pilgrim tie-in game, Scott would have kept his leveled up stats even after restarting, and might have had to level up multiple times while losing to Gideon over and over, until his stats were high enough to take him down.
Would not hit a girl
- Why wouldn't he hit a girl if shes trying to murder you it is nonsensical and stupid not to fight her when she has fricken ninja teleportation powers fight back!
- Remember that this is Scott you're talking about.
- I didn't expect him to be that stupid.
- Even with the vague threat that Roxy would kill Scott (which she hadn't proven she'd do by that point - hey, she had even let him out of that first fight they had because he wasn't in the mood. What a cool girl!), Scott, at least in that moment, seemed like a "if I leave this problem alone, maybe it'll go away" kind of guy.
- Also...this franchise is kind of all about small, everyday things going way too far.
- Truth in Television. This troper, because it was conditioned into him VERY strongly at a young age, is physically incapable of hitting a girl. My muscles quite literally lock up. I doubt I could do it even if I was being threatened. Perhaps Scott's the same way.
- In the movie, he actually said he didn't "think" he could fight a girl. Ramona never really gives him a chance to find out. In the book, he's running from the conflict and once he mans up, he has no problems fighting Roxy.
Exes and Gideon
- Why are the other exes so devoted to Gideon? Roxy even says if he can't have her no one can. It would make sense if they were fighting for themselves, or to test Scott, or just to mess with Ramona, but why fight so hard for just some random guy?
- In the books at least, Roxy was never really jealous of Scott. She didn't want to get back together with him; in fact, the exes are generally pretty much over Ramona, but have agreed to work with Gideon. (The only ones who may not be 100% over her are Matthew and Lucas, who are seen as kind of pathetic for still being invested in a relationship from way back in middle school, and the Katayanagis, who are still emotionally affected by the fact that she cheated on them). Roxy and Ramona never had much of an emotional connection, they seem to have just drifted apart rather than breaking up, and they actually have a pretty jovial relationship in the comic.
- Maybe his mind control? Speaking of which...
- Mind control? I know the sixth book wasn't written yet when the script was finished, but even not having read the books at all, I still expected what turned out to be the canon explanation for Ramona's attraction to Gideon just from the "he has a way of getting into my head" line. And the idea that Ramona can't get over Gideon because she can't get away from him, and even if she doesn't want to be with him he's still the literal man of her dreams is way way way more poetic than a freaking mind-control chip. WTF?
- Gideon in the comics is clearly evil. Affably Evil, yes, but still not a good dude. He didn't have that in the movie, and the subspace highways are almost entirely cut out of the film. In the movie, however, all the stuff he did fell into the not really that bad camp. He offered Sex Bob-Omb a contract. Oooh, evil. Turning him into kind of a creepy mind control guy in the same way he was in the comics (albeit in a different way) kind of makes sense.
- In the commentary for the movie, the director mentioned that he found that in one of Bryan Lee 'O Malley's old notes. He just decided to use that one.
Fighting for money
- So if Scott Pilgrim is the best fighter in the province, and he has no job, couldn't he... like take up boxing or become a professional fighter or something?
- But then he'd be a sellout.
- Not to mention that would take effort, and this is Scott we're talking about.
- I suppose that leads to the question (perhaps explained in the comics, which I haven't read yet) of how he got to be the best fighter in Ontario without effort?
- Scott is the best fighter in the province for the same reason that a a short, portly plumber can be a brilliant acrobat.
- The Free Comic Book Day comic shows that Scott obsessively selects his food for the powerups.
- In the comic, why didn't the vegan police strike as soon as Todd ate the gelatto, or better when he partook in the plate of chicken parmisan? In the movie at least it's implied that there's a 3 strike rule and with the half and half incident they instantly appeared.
- So, in the movie, Roxy is defeated by Scott touching her in the back of knees, apparently her g-spot or something. Apparently, Ramona did this everytime they made out. So everytime they made out, Roxy died?
- The little death maybe? I don't know if she'd drop coins for that, though.
- As mentioned above, that came after Ramona beat the hell out of her. Touching the back of her knees was probably like Cherry Tapping.
- I have an explanation for this! Roxy is a Lesbian, and her knee-butts are instant orgasm spots, right? But Scott, a male, touches her in the back of the knees therefore causing her to orgasm at the touch of a man. I submit to you that she was not defeated by force, but rather by heterosexual sex. It makes sense. The pure mortification coin'd her. With Ramona, it was just sexy for her.
- The knee thing was supposed to happen to Envy, and it didn't kill her, just make her crumble blissfully to the floor, but through the means of adaptation the Romona/Envy fight never happened, and most of the moves (including the knee touch finisher) were transferred to the Roxy fight. Roxy was actually supposed to be chopped in half and explode into animals, but I guess that just raises it's own questions...
Todd and the exes
- Why is Todd Ingram a member of the League of Evil Exes? Matthew Patel resented the fact that Ramona used him and quickly discarded him, Lucas Lee thought she cheated on him with Todd, Roxy Richter resented the idea that Ramona only regarded her as a phase, the Katayanagi twins hated how she played them against each other, and Gideon was a self-obsessed asshole who couldn't stand the idea that Ramona (or anyone) might leave him. Todd, on the other hand, left for Vegan Academy, and seems to have left on fairly amicable terms. What did he have against Ramona that would have caused him to reply to Gideon's Craigslist post?
- Because he was a triple timer, during his time in Vegan School, he had fallen head over heels for Lynette, then went after Ramona when they were parting ways and then Envy when he left Ramona before meeting Lynette and Envy again and aimed for a double relationship.
- Maybe he wasn't enthusiastic about it, and Gideon really wanted Todd's psychic powers on his side. It does say in the comic that he just wanted to beat scott and get it over with quickly, perhaps it was peer pressure that caused him to join.
- The other six threatened to beat him up. He wouldn't have a chance.
- I don't think he was forced, he was by far the strongest evil ex of them all, he could beat all of them with his hands tied behind his back
- I suppose that one hint that he was forced was in his breakdown at Honest Ed's. The brief clip of Gideon telling him to use his powers to kill Scott in the midst of the other things which he might not be too proud of suggests that Gideon did his whole "lock him inside his own head" thing. He does seem more determined to kill Scott after that breakdown, which might mean that he wants to be free of the glow so that he doesn't need to live with himself. It still doesn't explain why he would reply to the Craigslist rant (unless maybe it was to brag that he'd had a better relationship with Ramona then the others).
- I'm guessing membership in the League also comes with benefits aside from getting to screw over Ramona that appealed more to Todd. While I can't explain how those might come up in a drunken Craigslist rant, I suppose it's possible that Todd replied just to be a dick and stuck around when he smelled the money.
- Ramona explicitly states she dumped him once learning he was heading off to Vegan Academy, his little hand-drawn version in the flashback looks sad, and there's even a little animated broken heart. Seems safe to assume he wanted to try a long-distance relationship.
- Actually it's all quite simple: The old guy in the flashback was presumibly Todd's Dad or Mentor telling him he couldn't be a vegan. Todd's always been a bit rebelious but his inferiority complex combined with his power turned him into an egocentric douche who thinks he can do anything he wants. And as stated above, he just wanted to be a dick, and even if Gideon wasn't paying him(Why would an up and coming Rockstar need more money anyway?) he would do it just to screw with Ramona. Todd's just that much of a sociopath.
Natural hair color
- Seriously, what IS Ramona's natural hair color? Is it blonde or something?
- Pretty sure it's blue/teal. In Volume 4, she mentions she hasn't dyed her hair in a while, or changed it really. She doesn't for the rest of the volume, and onto volume 5. And the volume 5 cover her hair seems to be blue, so...
- I'd like to think's a brown-ish brunette color, since that's the hair color of Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who played Ramona in the film. That and, in th game, one of her palette swaps gives her a somewhat light brown hair color, wheras all the other palette swaps give her hair colors taken from the books (or at least the promotional art by O'Malley).
- And now Word of God claims it's probably medium-to-dark brown.
- What was the point of changing Scott's age in the movie from 23 to 22? Considering that scene was practically lifted right from the pages of the comics, it seems so pointless.
- The actor was 22 when they were making it, as I understand it.
- He's 22 now (The Other Wiki lists his birthday as June 7, 1988), so he would have been about 20-21 during filming. Even still, so? Does Cera not know how to portray a 23 year old?
- And Stacy was changed (in post-production, according to Anna Kendrick) to 18 years old. My assumption is that Scott's was changed to get the age a little closer to Cera's, since Cera still did look a bit young on-screen, but 22 is still old enough for him to have already graduated from U of T. And it's arguable, but a 22 year old would naturally be slightly more immature than a 23 year old, and maybe that's an implication Wright meant to make. By the same idea, making Stacy a year younger preserves the 4 year gap between their age, and thus preserves the "she's 4 years younger but much more mature than him" dynamic. Making her younger would risk making her too cartoonishly Wise Beyond Her Years (and increase the Dawson Casting vibe), but making her older would rob a bit of the irony in her being more emotionally mature than him.
- My guess would be to make the Scott-Knives relationship less squicky. The characters do harangue Scott about it, and their relationship never gets physical, but it would hardly be the first time that distributors or the MPAA overreacted to an innocuous plot element.
- Is it just me or does the Clash at Demonhead's (female) drummer have a serious five o' clock shadow going on?
- In the graphic novels, in the game, or in the movie? In the graphic novels and the game, she looks completely normal but in the movie, she looks a little man-like, but this troper thinks it's just the lighting.
Mook power levels
- Regarding the film, the Powers of Love and Self-Respect must have given Scott a RIDICULOUS increase in power, if the coins dropped by Gideon's mooks at the Chaos Theatre are any indication of their strength. They dropped enough to create thick coin silhouettes of their bodies on the ground. Compare that to Matthew Patel (you know, the Bollywood'n, FIREBALL SHOOTIN' first ex), who didn't even drop enough change for bus fare, and even he gave Scott a run for his money during their fight. Gideon's mooks fall before the Digitanas like they were paper.
- In most video games, harder, late game enemies ALWAYS drop more than earlier stuff, regardless of how OP you are. I guess Gideon's mobs are so much bigger than anything else he's fought. If I were the final boss, I'd surround myself with mooks at least as tough as the most recently defeated boss.
Photos of Gideon
- How come the only photos of Gideon Wallace could find were blurry and unrecognizable (forgot which volume) but in the last volume we see his face clearly on the cover of a magazine labeled as a millionaire? I know Wallace is kinda useless but c'mon, even he could've just went to Google or something. Did Gideon just get famous right before volume 6 or do we just call Fridge Logic?
- They had dial-up.
Breaking the swords
- Does Gideon breaking both of the swords imply that neither the Power of Love nor the Power of Self-Respect are enough to defeat The Power of Being a Douchey Uber-Rich Music Producer?
- In the movie, maybe it's that some fights can't be won single-handedly. The Power of Self-Respect carries Scott further than the Power of Love, but even a douche like Gideon can have love and self-respect: to actually win, Scott has to put his own issues aside completely and fight alongside Knives, the person he's wronged most and has the most reason to hate him. What beats Gideon is The Power of Friendship and even The Power of Forgiveness, because those are the things a guy like Gideon can't understand.
- Though I would love to hear a flashback of the movie's power-up announcer actually saying "Gideon has unlocked the Power of Being a Douchey Uber-Rich Music Producer!"
- In the movie I always assumed each fight was essentially a battle of "Cool vs. Cool" with whoever was more "awesome" having the advantage. The breakdown going something like this:
- Fireballs and Demon Hipster Chicks fail against being a Badass Normal
- Lucas Lee is obviously cooler than Scott, but Scott is (marginally) smarter than him and thus being able to outsmart him is pretty cool
- The same with Todd
- Roxy is weakened by her fight with the cooler-by-virtue-of-being-less-psycho Ramona, weakened further by the awesome co-op mode of Scott and Ramona and finally defeated via Cherry Tapping
- The Power of Rock will always defeat douchey electronic-pop
- The Power of Love is cool, but Gideon exploited Scott's mistake of turning his back on him, thus killing him. The Power of Self-Respect is really cool, but the Digitana is just way cooler, with Gideon only being defeated with the So Cool It's Awesome tag-team battle with Knives.
- What was the hilarious text that Lucas received during his fight with Todd?
- You mean fight with Scott.
- Pretty sure is some joke Gideon or someone sent to him about Scott. Or probably he just received a message that he's going to star in another bad titled cliché film? Who knows?
- "So smart getting your stunt doubles to fight him, while you get off Scott-free!"
- Why isn't the cool song playing during the Roxy fight scene on the soundtrack?
- It's on the Original Score release (and appropriately titled "Roxy"), which is only available (legally) on iTunes and Amazon, I believe. It's actually the longest song on the album, too.
- What is wrong with Todd Ingram's fans? They love and adore him even after it is revealed that that he is a triple-timing asshole who flings girls into walls. Then he "justifies" his actions by stating that he is a rock star, all while Flipping the Bird at the audience. If I witnessed all of that, I would start rooting for the other guy.
- You're talking about the same people cheering for Envy over Ramona, even though Envy is clearly a huge bitch, because "Ramona, sweetie. I'm famous."
- I'm also talking about the guy cheated on Envy. The girl thrown into the wall, that was also Envy. Her own fans were cheering for this jerk.
- Truth in Television. Ever heard of a dude called Chris Brown? He still has tons of fans, and he's arguably worse than Todd.
Scott and Wallace
- Did Scott and Wallace ever...you know...do stuff? There are occasional hints and stuff and Scott said it was "pretty gay" how he wound up living with Wallace...
- Probably not, Scott seems straight as hell. And I think they explained it partly in the book, how they became friends and such, and the last panel of that had them walking drunkenly together to some place...wait...
- I don't think THAT happened when they were walking drunk. Besides Wallace asked Scott if he could crash at his place.
- Scott is a Fag Hag, he just happens to have a penis. From his reaction to Stephen and Joseph in the last book, I get the feeling he gets some voyeuristic thrill out of seeing two men together while not actually wanting to participate in it himself (in the same way people enjoy action movies without wanting to go on killing sprees). It is sort of a weirdly specific fetish-type thing, but Scott is pretty weird.
Ramona and Scott cheating
- Why does Ramona act surprised when Scott tells her he cheated, in the movie? Knives kisses him in full view of Ramona in that scene, rather than in the comic where Knives kisses him before Ramona gets there. While we're at it, why change that scene into a less sensible one? For a one-off joke of Scott running away? That is not nearly funny enough to warrant a plot hole.
- Just about the only reasonable explanation is that, from Ramona's point of view, Knives is some young girl who's weirdly obsessed with the band, but she's far too young for Scott to actually be dating her, so it must've been a weird, over-the-line fangirl moment on Knives' part (and the reason everyone started awkwardly staring at each other immediately afterward was because they recognized the crazed fan had crossed a line).
- The Internet seems obsessed with finding the snippet of the Queen song (for the record, it's the cue that plays when Gideon kisses Ramona's ring at the Katayanagi concert), so I haven't been able to find when the remix of "Romantic Rights" by Death From Above 1979 plays in the film. Any help?
- The Queen song is "The Ring (Hypnotic Seduction of Dale)" from the Flash Gordon soundtrack, specifically the first second or two, which is actually a SFX sample from the movie that Queen used at the start of the track. It happens exactly when the above troper said it does. As for the Death From Above 1979 track, it's probably a difficult-to-legally-find b-side, but can be found online through less than legitimate sources.
- Look on the iTunes and you should find the Romantic Rights remix. I found it there.
- OK, so, the ending of the movie: "CONTINUE?" What is that? A Sequel Hook? Has O'Malley even tossed around the idea of more Scott Pilgrim?
- Y'know how when they lost the Ninja game, it said CONTINUE? So perhaps...
- ...Perhaps what? I'm sorry, I'm just kind of baffled on the whole thing, you'll have to spell it out for me. I know about the ninja game, just not sure how it corresponds to the ending thematically.
- ...Perhaps it's a Bittersweet Ending. Didn't you see the Pot Hole? Gosh. I mean that maybe it means his choosing Ramona wasn't the right way to end his game.
- It's a videogame reference, plain and simple.
- They just want your quarters. Duh.
- Aw, man. All I got in my pocket is some dang ol' Chuck E. Cheese tokens.
- The videogame metaphor was that your time with the game (that is, movie) is done, so you let the countdown run out so you can go home, unless you want to stick around for The Stinger of lil' sprite Scott kicking the shit out of THE END. That's what I figured, at least.
- It could also be the opposite, Scott and Ramona are choosing to CONTINUE, ie take another go at building a relationship. That's the (pretty obvious) metaphor in the comic and it seems applicable to the movie as well.
- Or perhaps is a throwback on how arcade games will always play the exact same stages, with the exact same events and the only thing changing would be your reactions to them.
Stalking is Love
- Does the film's alternate Knives ending have any Stalking Is Love undertones to it, or is it just me? It felt like the build-up, with Ramona wishing she could be as devoted to someone as Knives is to Scott, was implying that Scott should go with Knives because she's obsessed with him, which is a terrible basis for a healthy relationship. Please tell me I'm reading it wrong?
- In the alternate ending Ramona leaves because she believes she could turn Scott into another evil ex, letting Knives be his girlfriend. Ramona had never had a person who sincerely cared for her, just like she had never cared for anybody before she met Scott. Since she's insecure for the very first time about whether she'd be as devoted as him, she believes Knives deserved the spot much more than her, especially after being told that Scott cheated on Knives for her. Scott acknowledges that he was so busy fighting for Ramona that he forgot that Knives had always been here for him, aside from the fact that she enjoys the same stuff Scott likes. Finally Knives is awarded not because she stalks Scott, but because she only want him to be happy - in fact she fights Ramona not because she stole his boyfriend, but because Ramona broke his heart. I think that'd have been a MUCH better ending if it wasn't for how sloppily they directed it. Still a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming.
- Very arguable. If Scott had gotten back together with Knives, then we'd essentially leave the characters in the same place they started. Scott would still be dating a high-schooler, Ramona would still be running away from her past, etc. etc.
- It's a little unnecessary to ask, but do you think Toronto got some sort of increase in tourists after the whole series, people wondering if certain places were real?
- Doubtful. I seriously doubt anyone but the most unhinged, and richest, fans would spend a lot of money on a trip to Canada based on this film.
- Well, my brother's American friend is attending university here in residence and asked if he could show him all the places from the books and movie, so who knows.
- Is it me or is there a severe lack of chubby/overweight characters, excluding the fat mooks from the game and maybe Roxy?
- Welcome to the movie industry.
- Consider that virtually none of the characters have access to cars. They do a lot of walking.
- I found it to be the opposite. The comic is filled with fairly plump and quite believable body shapes, especially for all the female characters who aren't Envy Adams or Lynette Guycott. But maybe that's just Bryan Lee O'Malley's art style.
- This one bugs me to end. WHEN IS THE MOVIE/COMIC SET? Everyone's playing 8-bit games, there are no cellphones, Amazon seems like a huge novelty, and Scott's computer is making Windows 3.1 sounds. Perhaps the date is specifically spelled out in the comic book (haven't finished it yet), but the movie is silent on the matter.
- The comic is pretty much set in the present day. Scott just likes old video games.
- Uh, Scott plays a PSP in book six. Neil plays a Ds or something in the movie. Plus, someone said something about the year being 2005.
- Cellphones are used oodles of times in volume 5. Its more like comic book time as seen in volume 6.
- Some site (I think the Scott Pilgrim wiki) said that Scott was born on September 27, 1981 and Kine Pine was born in October of 1981. Make of that what you will.
- It's implied that it's only Scott who is a bit behind the times and thus uses payphones and doesn' know about amazon.
Exes, not ex-boyfriends
- So, in the movie, Ramona is constantly reminding Scott that he has to fight her Exes, but Matthew Patel introduces himself as "Ramona's First Evil Ex Boyfriend!"... and Ramona says nothing?
- She only said anything about it after the fight with Patel. Scott gets the e-mail, ignores it, Patel attacks, then Ramona tells him what's going on.
- When Scott says "evil ex-boyfriends", he's collectively referring to the entire League of Evil Exes, which includes a girl. When Matthew said it, he was only talking about himself.
- She's reminding Scott that he can't say "ex-boyfriends" collectively because one of them isn't a boyfriend. Patel can introduce himself as the first evil ex-boyfriend because he is the first out of the six who are male.
- In the guest comic featuring Michael Comeau, he mentiones he is opening up a restaurant with someone named fancy, who is that?
- In the game, you get the Power of Love when you fight Gigadeon, his huge-ass monster form, but when you fight his human form that has the digital sword from the movie, you don't have your sword. Even if you enter the code that gives you the Power of Love there's still no way to carry it into the area where you fight Gideon for the final time. Why would they include both the Power of Love and Gideon's digital sword in the game but make it impossible to replicate the fight with these weapons from the movie?
- Because the Power of Love shattered on the first hit when it was used against Gideon? You're confusing it with Self-Respect.
- There is no Power of Self-Respect in the game. Scott only has the one sword and only for the Gigadeon fight.
- Okay, so what exactly is so horrible about Honest Ed's? One character specifically asks, but the only answer we get is something about how newborns cry at the horror of being alive. Oooo-kay... Both Todd and Scott freak out in there, but it's not clear why. Is the stuff in there terrifyingly cheap? Is it the commercialism (like a Canadian Wal-Mart, or something)? Or is it that all the "grea deals" create a compulsion to buy a lot of crap you don't need? (Might explain why they both have a bunch or random crap they picked up towards the end of the scene).
- Having been to Honest Ed's, I can confirm the existential horror experienced by the characters in the comics. It's just such a weird place with all of the bizarre slogans and such, and there's just so much crap and it all costs practically nothing, it just makes you want to spend money on completely useless bullshit even though you're completely aware of the fact that you wouldn't ever actually use any of that stuff. It's huge. You can genuinely get lost in it. So yeah. It's huge and it's like the floor plan was made up by a team of crazy people, and all of the things there are incredibly, ridiculously cheap, not to mention largely pointless to boot.
- Alternate answer: It really isn't that bad, and that's the joke. You silly goon.
Character on volume 2
- Who's on the cover of volume 2? I'd assume it's Ramona, but she doesn't get that haircut until the next volume. Also, in the colour insert at the beginning of volume 4 (where her hair is blue, not red), it's mentioned she hasn't done anything to her hair for a month and a half other than let it grow out, though I don't know if that would cover the time where she did have that haircut.
- Apparently, it is Ramona.
- In the end of the movie Ramona knees Gideon in the groin, but wasn't she under his mind control? I don't remember anything indicating that the chip was gone or deactivated, so what gives?
- That part came after the chip deactivated when Scott apologized for his actions towards Ramona & Knives. So, by that point, Ramona was acting on her own volition when sacking Gideon in the groin.
Eight evil exes
- I apologize if this was already covered in the previous entries above. Ramona tells Scott about her seven evil ex's after his fight with Matthew. When Roxy shows up, she's surprised because she didn't think Roxy would count on the grounds that it was just a phase. Does that mean there's one more evil ex out there that Gideon couldn't get in contact with?
- Yeah, Doug. In the comics at least. Although he wasn't outright evil, just a bit of a dick.
- Scott has the chance to collect the coins left by the dead exes. While he actually does bother with it at one point, neither Scott nor any of the other characters bother to collect any of the seven-figure digits' worth of cash left by Gideon Graves. Even scooping up a handful of Canadian currency (of which the largest denomination is $2) could be twenty bucks or so by itself. His pockets could probably hold, oh, a hundred bucks each, if not more. And if he had a bag, he could have walked away significantly richer, even if he had to leave most of the coins behind. Of course, trying to find all that money IN COINS on a crowded dance floor and among all of Ramona's stuff, would be too hard for a bunch of very drained characters. Still, talk about a missed Moment of Awesome in the course of a character's life.
- This was actually fixed in the films alternate ending where Scott ends up with Knives. As they walk Scott asks if Knives wants to go to the arcade. She says that she doesn't have any quarters. Scott having just defeated Gideon points out that he does while rifling though his coat pocket.
- Maybe his currency inventory was maxed out, it's just unobtainable, or it's plain old Money for Nothing in play? That or they're hipsters, and Goodwill and Pizza Pizza is cheap enough that it's just not worth the effort.
- Rule of Symbolism? In the comic, when Ramona finally learns her aspect of the moral, she then blocks Gideon's sword with her subspace bag, shattering it. Then, she later notes she needs a new bag and doesn't want to start picking up and hoarding her old stuff because, like Scott, she needs to stop living in the past. Proceeding to have Scott fussing over something as trivial as money, let alone money from her exploded ex, kind of breaks his character arc of moving on and not dwelling on your past.
- Funnily, the movie averts this when Stephen Stills realizes that the band isn't getting paid after Gideon explodes. They start scooping up as much loose change as possible.
- In the comic, the money fell on the crowd starting a panic. It would be hard to collect change in the middle of a riot.
- In the video game, why are most of the main females dressed from the waist down in just their panties (or alternatively Japanese style gym shorts)? In the middle of winter. In Canada.
- Crosses into Fridge Brilliance when you remember that Scott Pilgrim version of Toronto runs on video game logic. Just to pull from a recent example, it's entirely possible to strip down to your birthday suit in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and jump into arctic waters without suffering in the slightest. Unless it's a specific mechanic of the gameplay, temperature doesn't have any discernible effect on people in video games.