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Headscratchers: Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies
  • Why did Phantom feel the need to frame Athena with the lighter/gun? He would have gotten away with everything if he had just left the blame on Solomon Starbuck as he originally planned. Without that lighter/gun, Phoenix would have had no evidence that someone other than Sol had murdered Clay and then escaped through the Space Museum.
  • Ok, so I'm very confused regarding Simon Blackquill's dialogue and actions concerning the Phantom. They seem rather contradictory and confusing. We know that he was worried that Athena killed her mother and allowed himself to take the blame for Metis's death. Later on, however, he states during Case 5 that he believed that conclusion to be a mistake. Furthermore, when he presents the Phantom's psych profile, he states that he has been hunting the Phantom down all this time. In the time since his imprisonment, did he ever at all suspect that the Phantom may have been involved in the death of Metis Cykes? If he did not, then why not? It's puzzling because he seems way too perceptive, intelligent, and Genre Savvy not to make the connection between Metis Cykes's murder and the HAT-1 sabotage, not to mention the HAT-2 bombing and Clay Terran's murder. If he did, then is it possible that another reason he took the blame was to prevent other people (Athena, Aura, etc.) from investigating, and thus risking tipping off the Phantom and getting murdered?
    • It looks like he let his emotions cloud his thinking and honestly didn't suspect Phantom had any role in Metis' death. He knew that while Metis loved Athena, the girl felt she was being used by her mother and was unloved, and thus did kill her in the heat of the moment and try to "fix her".
    • This troper got the impression that Simon didn't believe Athena killed her mother, but knew that no one else would really agree with him (the crime scene had Metis's corpse, a blood-covered Athena who'd clearly been doing something to the body, and a robot witness. Presumably Simon took the blame as an immediate means to protect Athena, while using his various contacts in prison to lure the Phantom out.
  • Why does Ted Tonate feel the need to type elipses and things such as "AAAAAAAAAAGH!" into his text-to-voice thing? He doesn't know about Athena's ability to sense a person's true feelings, and since he's fairly capable of concealing his own emotions, wouldn't he rather do that in an attempt to cover up his anxiety than type out his inner monologue?
    • Other than being simply for comical effect, it's probably just because he's been doing it for so long. He also very obviously has a few screws loose, so being so overdramatic and typing in all of the words and punctuation he's actually thinking wouldn't be out of character for him.
  • Okay, according to Court-Records, the Jurist system is not going to be in this game. Point of order, why?
    • Because Phoenix is the one who came up with it, and thus it's inherently biased toward defense attorneys, and that's hardly fair. Or, more seriously, it's probably because it would affect the game's design too dramatically. The games' cases are constructed like mysteries: there's one right answer and one right way to get to it. Having a jury is, from a gameplay perspective, utterly pointless, since everything revolving around the court cases still boils down to "the player must solve the riddle." The developers would have to design the game to deviate from this model, to integrate some means of "persuading" the jury to your case, in order to make it worthwhile. From an in-universe perspective, it might be Hand Waved as a result of the "dark times" descending on the justice system, with the bombing of the courthouse serving as the catalyst for the crackdown.
      • Not to mention that it'd likely make the trials too easy, considering how often the cases end up at a point where the real criminal is very obviously guilty, but only is able to possibly get away on technicalities. Any jury of halfway sane people would get to that point and vote the defendant "Not Guilty" in an instant.
    • In-story, it's because of the people losing their faith in the legal system, causing the Jurist System to be abandoned.
      • Actually, it was stated that Phoenix's framing by Kristoph with fake evidence, and Prosecutor Blackquill's conviction of murder eight & seven years previous respectively were what caused people to lose faith and start the "dark age of the law". The Jurist System used in the last case in the previous game was explicitly said to be a test, so it can be inferred that the whole legal system wouldn't be revised in such a short amount of time (yes, even a year). This also gives the implication that the Jurist System was a means to restore the citizens' faith in the courts by including them in the court proceedings.
    • There are campaigns to reform the law, which the Jurist System test would be a part of. This game is more about healing the wounds of the past than making any actual action for the future.
  • So, um, Where the hell is Ema Skye?? The last we see of her in AJ is her still being moody about being a detective and randomly chatting about "Golden Snackoos". I'm fine with the creators putting her on a bus, but what was the point in completely rewriting her character if the subsequent game doesn't even acknowledge her existence?
    • Simply, Ema would have nothing to do in the plot, and for a very good reason. She's almost certainly going to be in GS6 as the detective, however.
      • So you think that there'll be a 6th main game? I hope so to be honest.
      • Considering all the plot threads left at the end of Ace Attorney 5, I would be surprised if there WASN'T a 6th main game.
      • Motohide Eshiro, the producer, said in an interview that he's pretty sure the series isn't ending anytime soon, and certainly not with Dual Destinies.
    • Fulbright was in charge of Blackquill so it's to be expected that he'd be the lead detective in all cases involving him, Ema is probably working for Klavier and didn't show up for Case 3 because Klavier wasn't the prosecutor in charge for it and was there mostly to catch up with Courte.
    • Although the three main lawyers do rely on DNA analysis more often than in previous games to make their cases. Perhaps Ema has retaken her forensics exam and passed?
    • Ema is referenced in the DLC case, though not by name. Still a detective.
  • During the final trial, why did Apollo feel the need to force it to continue for the case of Clay's murder? They were going to hold the trial for that the next day anyway. There was nothing to really gain from holding it the very same day as the retrial for UR-1. All that really accomplished was keeping the hostages held as such for longer than necessary.
    • Most likely, it was because he couldn't handle even one more day of feeling like he couldn't trust Athena, who he had doubts was unrelated to Clay's death. He wanted it to end as soon as possible, and as a continuation to her first trial seemed more than fitting.
  • Okay, so in the UR-1 incident, why did the Phantom have to kill Metis Cykes in the first place? Is there something I missed?
    • It all boiled down to She Knows Too Much as Metis was working on that psych profile as part of an effort to identify him.
    • It is as the above stated. Phantom, who's lone fear was that he would be exposed, had inadvertantly been recorded by Simon, who took the recording to Metis so she could create a psyche profile based on the voice. Knowing that with the existence of the profile, as well as a person who could use it to find him before he could finish the HAT-1 sabatoge, Phantom went to the robotics lab to kill Metis and get the profile. However, he was found out by Athena, who stabbed him, potentially leaving more evidence of his existence behind, so he fled; unable to get the profile. Knowing that Simon was able to retrieve the profile and keep it, Phantom eventually killed and replaced Fullbright who was to be assigned to Simon so he could try to get it back. The rest is more explained in the game, but that's essentially what it was all about.
  • During the final case, when you cross-examine Ponco, how come you're not allowed to point out that if Ponco could hear "Metis's" heartbeat after she fell down, that contradicts the autopsy report, which indicates Metis was stabbed through the heart, making death instantaneous? It seems like a much more obvious contradiction than the one they wanted you to point out, as well as a much less roundabout way of proving the person Athena stabbed wasn't actually her mother.
    • Because Ponco immediately went to sleep mode after the "hug" first started. In any case, it could be plausible that even after getting her heart pierced, it didn't immediately stop beating for even the short amount of time it was pierced to when Ponco went to sleep.
    • Because Ponco's exact wording was that Metis's heartbeat suddenly "flustered", aka, rose dramatically. Like the above troper said, literally the very next second, Ponco went to "sleep" to recharge. Instant death refers to a death that occurs within a few seconds, but all Ponco witnessed was the split-second rise in a heart-beat that occurred after the "hug" which anyone would have if they were stabbed, regardless of if the stabbing kills them instantly. Phoenix even asks Ponco if she could sense the heartbeat after the suddenly split-second rise, but Ponco says she can't recall because of her "sleep".
  • In the last case we are told that the dark age of the law began because of two cases; a defense attorney used forged evidence and a prosecutor was convicted of murder. It is repeatedly stated that the characters are correcting this by proving Blackquill's innocence. Except that doesn't change the actions of Manfred Von Karma, Damon Gant, Godot, Calisto Yew, Kristoph Gavin and whatever went down in Edgeworth's second game. Even if Blackquill isn't evil, there was already high profile dirt before the supposed beginning of the dark age.
    • Doesn't this take place like 10 years after the first games? It may be that this is a new Dark Age of the Law.
    • Straws that broke the camel's back? The fact that most of the above were resolved by a defense attorney who was "proven" to have used forged evidence could be enough to greatly sway people away from trust. In one of the final case's bad endings, Athena & Blackquill are found not guilty but, because Phantom was never apprehended, respect for the law sunk even lower, so it's not just a case of people having little respect in the law, but how they also doubt if lawyers & procecutors could even do their jobs. It also didn't help that the two who "ushed in the Dark Age of the Law" were a frequently mocked, but largely well knownnote  and proven defense attorney, and a up-and-comer prosecutor under the new guard which ostensibly promised change & reform who apparently snapped and killed in cold blood for no reason.
      • Going off of that, Godot had only just started out as a prosecutor and it's possible Calisto Yew wasn't well known enough that the reveal of her crimes would dent public opinion. Kristoph, meanwhile, was revealed as a criminal not too long after Phoenix was disbarred, so probably it didn't cause as huge a sensation, since the previous news overshadowed it. Keep in mind that by the time Phoenix was disbarred, he had built up a decent reputation for pulling off wins and only using legitimate means. Him being caught using false evidence suddenly throws every inspirational case he ever won into doubt, and probably extinguished a good bit of faith people had in one of very few lawyers we see dedicated to upholding the law.
      • Oh man, that's not even the half of it. I think I have an idea, but first I want to talk about what led to the low opinion of the law in the first place. In about three years, about SEVEN prosecutors (Edgeworth, von Karma, Lana, Godot, Portsman, Ichiyanagi, and Blackquill), two defence attorneys (Phoenix and Yew), a police officer (Maggey), and the Chief of Police were accused of murder. Seven of those eleven people being the actual killers (at the time; six when Blackquill's name was cleared). Not helped by the fact that almost all of the incidents involved primarily people in the legal system; in fact, Godot and Blackquill are the only ones whose cases didn't involve someone in the legal system, and even then, Godot's involved someone who had previously worked with the police and the assistant of the nation's top attorney. Further, two of those prosecutors were the Chief Prosecutor. One of the defence attorneys murdered the prosecutor opposing them and her own client, and one of those prosecutors murdered the defence attorney that was opposing him. One case involved a police officer potentially killing a fellow on the force (Ultimately disproven). That's not including the fact that it's apparently very easy to impersonate members of law enforcement (Furio Tigre) or pretend you're in law (possibly Yew). The police force is repeatedly shown to be careless, too (nearly everything about the third case of the first Investigations game screams this). Phoenix's accusation of forgery probably struck the world hard since he was responsible for getting to the truth of nearly every single case I mentioned above, as well as several other cases involving famous individuals (Redd White and Will Powers, for instance). Which, by extension, probably cast a huge shadow of doubt over every single case making everyone he saved look potentially just as guilty as the person charged with murder. It made him look worse than von Karma, since Phoenix was a bit of a hero. Then, up-and-coming talent Prosecutor Blackquill admitted to the murder of Metis Cykes, but remember Athena tried to prevent that? Athena spouted what came across as childish nonsense; who's to say Blackquill didn't force her somehow? Think about it if you were a member of the gallery or the prosecutor or the judge: the defendant is claiming he did it, smirking and apparently smug (supposing he was just as visually smug then as he is in the present when confessing), claiming he murdered a little girl's mother right before her eyes, and that same little girl is desperately crying that he didn't do it, that "his heart is screaming he didn't do it" which is just plain ridiculous to you, someone who doesn't understand that this little girl can hear emotions. She's just making excuses, you think, I mean he killed her mother right in front of her. Why would she do that? Wouldn't she want him found guilty? Did he threaten her? How did he threaten her? Then the Fridge Horror sets in to you, the gallery member watching or the prosecutor trying to settle this case, or the judge who has never met either of these people before. Did he threaten to kill her? Something worse? This man is extremely scary looking. He's evil, he killed this woman in front of her daughter out of nothing but a simple desire to kill. No motive. Who knows what else he's capable of? To everyone else, he was probably smug because he thought Athena would be able to get him off and perhaps confess in his place, as weird as that logic is, since why would he confess in the first place? But people tend to think weird logic when children are concerned.
    • Related to that, Edgeworth planned to clear up the dark age by proving a prosecutor not guilty of murder... by instead finding a defense attorney guilty of murder? How would that restore people's faith in the courts??
      • Because Athena wasn't an attorney when the murder happened, whereas Simon was one of the Prosecutor's Office's best & brightest lawyers. Athena would get sympathy because of how Metis apparently "abused" her as a child, and that caused her to snap, whereas Simon seemed to kill her for no reason.
      • Two words: Batman Gambit. I sincerely doubt he genuinely thought Athena killed her mother, but explored it as a possibility to keep the trial going and find the truth. He probably knew all along who the real killer was (though had no idea he was pretending to be someone else). Why else would he be beyond positive of Blackquill's innocence? Phoenix's phone conversation with him at the very, very start of the game pretty much say Phoenix and Edgeworth are scheming something, and since Athena was a prominent part of that conversation would indicate she was part of it. The tone of his voice when talking about her is completely different from the rest of his dialogue in that scene, it's much lighter but he never mentions her by name. If you're telling someone about someone else you think they might find interesting, you'd mention their name, indicating Edgeworth already knew about Athena. It's possible Phoenix's tone indicated that he was telling Edgeworth Athena was ready for her assigned role in their little gambit without directly saying it.
  • How does a self-professed perfect genius who regularly refers to other people as mouth-breathers manage to have True Companions, anyway?
    • Because he doesn't treat them like that? They know he has a heart of gold? Not really a real headscratcher anyway.
    • Or perhaps he was stressed out at the time with all the recent events. His flashback showed him as a much more laid back fellow and he has the standards to not use lies and becomes humble in the middle of court as well.
    • Well, that and Hugh O'Connor isn't really a "perfect genius" anyway; his parents were bribing Aristotle Means without his knowledge to raise his grades up to "perfect".
    • Also, Hugh, Robin, and Juniper became friends when they first came to Themis, long before Hugh got his "genius" reputation. And on top of that, Hugh also admits that he deliberately Took a Level in Jerkass towards Juniper so that she wouldn't feel as bad about discovering his fake grades or letting him take the rap for Courte's murder. Being an Insufferable Genius to everyone else may have been just another part of the act.
  • In the very first case, why do the guards in the background of the lobby not react whatsoever when Apollo, the defense for the case, collapses onto the ground, blood seeping through his bandages? The same goes to the bailiff when he enters the room right after Athena notes the detail about the blood. He couldn't have been bothered to note Apollo's poor condition and offer to call an ambulance? Are defense attorneys so poorly respected that it doesn't occur to anyone that the bandaged-up defense attorney collapsing onto the ground while bleeding might, just might, be a cause for concern?
    • There is nothing to suggest that prior to the first scene in the defense lobby or in the transition to the court that the guards do nothing to help Apollo. And Apollo is still conscious and aware enough to turn down any services (at least until Tonate brains him with a piece of rubble in the bombed court).
    • They're just cardboard cutouts of guards, there to look intimidating.
  • The Phantom arranges for Aura to lower a ladder for him to grab, a 20 foot leap over a 50 foot drop, while it's moving laterally. Why didn't he just lower himself to the ground with his grappling hook watch?
    • Not enough reach? Might as well ask where Means got his chalkboard or how L'Belle managed to change hair color between testimonies.
      • The above troper hit the nail on the head. The grappling hook watch was a just supposed to be a weird "over the top" comedic antic. It's not supposed to be something you take in consideration. How did Means get the chalkboard? How did Ted survive having his his goggles blow up up in his face without any damage at all? It doesn't matter because it's just something shown for a joke.
    • On a more serious note related to the ladder, though, why didn't the Phantom arrange for other ladders to be used? The fact that he didn't came back to bit him HARD...
  • Slightly smaller one, how did Hugh get his Proof of Friendship on? He couldn't have taken it apart to put it arouind his neck.
    • The hands act as a clasp that can open & close?
    • That seems unlikely. They were made of clay, and didn't seem to have hinges or other moving parts.
    • In the animated sequence, it looked like Robin had just finished making them out of clay, so maybe Hugh was able to stretch it and put it around his neck before it dried.
    • This troper thought it looked like she made them out of some kind of resin or rubber. They probably can stretch enough to allow one to wear them.
      • Most clay in school art rooms are the kind that have to be fired in a kiln, at least in my experience, to harden. Plus him stretching it would deform it anyway.
    • They could be two halves that interlock, like they 'snap' together at the clasped hands and at the point on the back opposite them and we just can't see a seam for the back because of how Robin made them. None of them could have gotten their Proof of Friendship on easily, since Juniper and Robin both have to get theirs over their hands to fit rather snugly on their wrist and forearm, and Robin had to get hers over her elbow as well. Also, it's worth noting that you can't actually TELL what they're made of. Sure, it looks like it's clay (and I concede they probably are), but it could be something rubberier than that, and could clasp together at the, uh, clasped hands. They do kinda, to me, look like they have the texture of those wristband things that were all the rage years back, and where Robin has hers, it would need to stretch at least a little, since it's on her bicep.
  • Why did Robin's parents raise her as a boy? There didn't seem to be any explanation on why and unless she came from the same village as Bridget, I don't see why they would do something like that. On top of that, since she hasn't gone back to acting like a guy, are they now okay with it?
    • "I wanted a son"? Maybe she was from a family of girls and she was chosen to be the token "boy".
    • Since her parents were also pressuring her to become a prosecutor, maybe they thought men made better prosecutors. After all, out of all the prosecutors in the series so far only two of them have been women- and one of them, Lana Skye, didn't come out looking so great after 1-5.
    • In Japan, passing on the family name is important. They can't really do that if they have a daughter since girls take on their husband's name, so in order to pass on the family name when she got married, they forced her to grow up as a boy. They're probably NOT happy, but they can't exactly hide it anymore so will have to accept it and the fact that their family name won't be passed on through her.
  • There are some times when you get the feeling that We Could Have Avoided All This, and then there's the DLC case. Okay, a large part of the in-case controversy is that during a public water show one year prior, the performing orca killed its trainer in front of a live audience. Fact 1: the trainer had a heart condition that triggered during the show and the orca was trying to save her. This is kept secret, even after the trainer is dead, her boyfriend is distressed, the aquarium receives a scathing story by a noted author and demands are made to have the orca put down. Why? Who could possibly benefit at that point? And then there's Fact 2: the aquarium is forced to use a replacement orca after the incident. This is also kept secret, even from the aquarium staff. And while the aquarium may have far shadier secrets of its own, they aren't directly related to these two, and by hiding the fairly innocuous facts from everyone, the official aquarium statement appears to be "our orca viciously attacked and killed its trainer, and we're still using it in our performances". And this turns out to be the perpetrator's entire motive. If they could have cleared up the whole situation by revealing either of those two simple facts, neither of which are particularly damaging, why didn't they?
    • 1) Shipley might have known that Azura died of a heart condition, but he had no way to prove it. His attempts to say that she died of a heart condition that not even her boyfriend knew about would not be believed. In any case, he might have not been able to get her medical records or was in the middle of an off-screen investigation to prove Azura died of a heart attack with solid proof. 2) The secret replacing of the orca was most likely done because if Shipley admitted that he put Ora down, he would be admitting that the orca killed her trainer, which would he would never admit. It's implied he kept Ora being alive a secret so that when the time came, he would be able to allow her to return to Shipshape Aquarium with pride that she never hurt anyone. No one even knew that Rimes was Azura's boyfriend until after the fact in the court, so Shipley couldn't have told him anything.
      • On point 2, whether or not Ora was actually put down is inconsequential to this part. Shipley at the very least could have said "I don't believe Ora killed anyone, but until we can prove it we should be using this other orca Orla in our act to prevent backlash". To go as far as to act as though Orla was Ora accomplished little more than display excessive pride (but not enough pride to actually support Ora herself continuing to perform) and ensure that any Ora backlash would now target an orca that was not only innocent but also unrelated to the incident. Which happened.
      • And on point 1, a weak and possibly unbelieved defense is better than no defense at all, especially when your public stance is that the orca will not be punished for the incident. Also note that the book's author herself went through a Heel Realization the moment she heard about the heart condition (outside of court, no less), though it can be argued that Shipley wouldn't expect that outcome.
      • You missed the part where Shipley & Crab actually had to make it look like they did put Ora down, and they had to argue against the CDA from euthanizing Orla as well. The CDA didn't care that Shipley was calling the other orca by the same name as the other one, they were convinced the "dangerous" one had been put down. He couldn't just "take the real Ora to the sidelines until her name got cleared". Summers' condition was only proven to be concrete after Apollo found the records from Hickfield; Shipley who did not (for whatever reason) have said proof would not have been able to convice De-Plume or anyone else otherwise.
      • That doesn't make point one any stronger. They couldn't prove that Summers had a medical condition until Apollo solved the mystery by... asking her doctor? They couldn't have checked with him before? Or was Hickfield being tight-lipped about it, and Apollo got lucky by instead asking that guy who scratches himself and says "hmm, yes" a lot? (Good thing the patient was female, then.) As for point two, it makes me wonder what motivates the CDA, since they are insisting that Ora be killed to prevent future incidents, yet aren't actually concerned about the public's peace of mind, since they have no problem with the aquarium owners lying and saying that they're still using the same orca that killed someone.
      • It's possible that Shipley didn't want to tell everyone about Summers' condition. I don't remember if they ever said that he knew the exact reason Summers wanted it kept secret, so if that was the case, he could be respecting her wishes even after her death. If he did know the exact reason, then I could also picture him running into trouble if people found out that he was letting a girl with a heart condition do these shows with a killer whale. He probably could have said it despite either of these reasons, but then he might have wanted to keep it to himself unless it was absolutely necessary (he did manage to work around putting Ora down). Also, it wouldn't completely surprise me if the CDA didn't care about the aquarium lying as long as the apparent murderer orca was put down. They sound a little shady, to be honest.
  • The culprit of the DLC case chooses one of the worst ways to execute his plan. Really? You have access to powerful sleeping drugs and the ability to covertly administer them, and you choose asphyxiation as your murder weapon of choice? Exactly how did Marlon plan to get away with murdering Orla when he is one of the only people on the scene with the ability and opportunity to drain the pool?
    • Are we sure the culprit intended to get away with it? He wanted to kill Orla. He only prepared the frame-up once the victim was Shipley, and his intent was to make Orla look guilty. And then he testified against Orla. And when he was forced to testify against Sasha, he kept saying that he still thought Orla did it. You could say he's less of a man trying to get away with murder and more of a man who would do anything to ensure that Orla would pay for her earlier "crime". (This may or may not be a veiled Moby-Dick reference.)
  • One of the possible pressings against Fulbright has you tell him it couldn't have been her because Athena always wears a glove in her right hand. He asks you to go and provide evidence that she was wearing it during the incident, which you supposedly don't have. Therein the problem: you do have evidence Apollo had brought in just a while ago, in the footage from the security camera in Boarding Lounge 2 that saw Athena leave. Surely they couldn't have checked that?
    • Perhaps they did, but it didn't give a good image of Athena's right hand, so it wasn't usable as evidence?
    • That would just prove that Athena had the glove on her person at the time. It would be impossible to prove she was wearing it during the murder itself, and that she didn't just put it on later. Completely illogical, yes, but the court runs on a "guilty until proven innocent" system. Prosecutors and culprits have made even farther-reaching claims in the past.
    • Even if they did have proof that Athena was wearing her glove at the time of the murder, it still wouldn't have explained where the fingerprints came from. You would have to prove that Fulbright forged the fingerprint analysis report, which is exactly what you do in the original case anyway, making the glove an irrelevant piece of information.
  • During The Cosmic Turnabout, we learn that Yuri switched the rockets, and Clay and Solomon were nowhere near the bomb blast. But during the opening cutscene, as they escape through the tunnel, there are clearly flames glowing behind them.
    • Rule of Drama? Same reason why Turnabout Academy's opening has Juniper, Robin and Hugh standing over Courte's body, despite none of them actually seeing it, let alone at the same time.
  • So... exactly whose "Dual Destinies" is the title a reference to? Gonna take a wild guess here and say it ain't the Orca twins.
    • Not hard to use a bit of imagination. Here are some examples:
      • The destinies of Phoenix & Blackquill, who inadvertently ushered in the Dark Age of the Law, ending it.
      • The destinies of Athena & Blackquill intertwined from UR-1 from the start to the very end.
      • The destinies of Apollo & Phoenix who both take different paths to find the truth, to find the converge at the end to finally catch the Phantom.
      • The destinies of Clay Terran & the real Bobby Fulbright, who were both ended by the same culprit for reasons they could never have possibly forseen or prevented.
      • The destinies of Phoenix & Edgeworth, two old friends who over the years of ups and downs finally manage to take their proper places in the legal world and spearhead the movement to restore the law to it's former glory.
      • The destinies of Metis & Clay, who were both brought to an end by the same culprit and whose cases combined brought down the Dark Age of the Law.
      • The destinies of Athena & Edgeworth, due to their similar traumatic childhood cases.
  • So, what happened to Vira Misham? Apollo's reactions to her in the previous game seemed to hint that he was interested in her and she just kinda got forgot about, also while I am here. Is there a reason they completely ignored the revelations in the last case of the fourth game with Lamiroir?
    • Ummm.... not really. Vera's absence, like any client seen after a long period of time (e.g. What happened to Adrian Andrews or Will Powers between games) is not of great importance. You could say, "He's seeing her between cases" or "She's trying to re-enter society & is busy". It's just like Maya, Pearl & Edgeworth in the previous game, just because they aren't in one game isn't a cause for a headscratcher or a clear sign they forgot about them. As for the Lamiroir thing? For all we know, it hasn't been forgotten. Phoenix probably is choosing to wait for a more proper time before revealing what he knows. In any case, it would be incidental information in the story it was trying to tell; perhaps it will be a big plot point in the next game, whenever it comes out.
    • Even if Apollo was interested (something I never noticed myself), that doesn't mean she is. Just like with Juniper, as she is interested, he doesn't seem to be (hence Oblivious to Love). That's the thing with romance: to make a relationship, the feelings have to be reciprocated. I always thought he was behaving more like an older brother to all of the girls. As to Lamiroir, as stated directly above me, Phoenix and Lamiroir are waiting for the proper time. I think that's directly stated.
  • So the phantom wore a noh mask to hide his identity from everyone and so that Plonco would think that he was Dr. Metis Cyckes. But later on we find out that the phantom has a large variety of lifelike masks which he always wears and that his identity as a police officer for that case was also faked. So... why didn't he just not wear his police officer mask? Wearing the noh mask just seems completely pointless and needlessly suspicious given that he could have hidden his identity in a variety of different ways.
    • It's strongly implied that at the time, seven years prior to this game, Phantom didn't have the Latex Perfection masks that would become his defining feature.
    • Another possibility would be that Phantom was employed at the space center as a guard and Plonco could have recognized him as someone other than Dr. Metis Cykes if he didn't take the mask.
      • The above point is fully supported in-game: when Edgeworth returns during the last leg of the trial, he reveals that Ponco's face recognition data from when Metis' body was discovered shows that there were three people present- one officer and two employees- and all three faces were on Ponco's registration list. And as we know, the Phantom was amongst their number at the time and used the opportunity to steal the moon rock.
  • Everything about the Themis Legal Academy feels really off even if it was being run smoothly. Law school typically doesn't happen until a student at least gets a bachelor's degree in college, yet Themis seeks to pigeonhole its students into 3 tracts before they even reach that point. While the idea of a legal college preparatory isn't that farfetched, splitting the course tracts into "Defense, Prosecution, and Judicial" seems backwards given that you have to at least be a second year law student before you can even choose your focus (criminal, corporate, civil, taxes, international, etc). It also feels strange that the Judicial tract is separate from Defense and Prosecution since most judges tend to be former attorneys anyways. Wouldn't it be enough for an academy specializing in legal education to just give these high schoolers a broadened scope of the legal world to prep them for college instead of relying on courtroom tactics?
    • A similar discussion elsewhere raised a valid, non-Rule of Fun point: In Japan, if you know exactly what you want to be and are dead set on it before you enter high school, especially if it would normally be a long (i.e. 5+ Years) college course (Medicine and Law come to mind immediately), the there are "specialty" high schools where their curriculum is tailored to that course. However, that student is still required to enter a proper college for that course. A diploma from a specialty school is more or less a "free pass" to skip the more basic Gen-Ed and 101 courses and go straight into the more involved classes pertaining to that course, reducing the college stay by more or less half. This actually gives credence to some of the older characters and their relatively young starting ages (Nick at 24, Edgey at 20, Apollo at 22, etc.) The Rule of Fun comes in at the more ridiculous ones, like both Gavins having badges before 20 (Kristoph and Klavier are a year apart, meaning that the former was 18 and latter 17) and Franzy topping the chart at the pre-teen age of 13. However, There is actually some evidence of someone passing the Bar at age 18, though...
  • On the second trial day of the DLC case, "Turnabout Reclaimed", Marlon Rimes insists that Orla is guilty of killing the victim. However, on the first day, Orla was declared not guilty. Wouldn't double jeopardy apply in this case? As case 3-2 "The Stolen Turnabout" shows, double jeopardy laws exist in the Ace Attorney 'verse.
    • Putting aside that Rimes' assertation wouldn't be changed due to the official ruling... it could be that either double jeopardy wouldn't apply for an animal or that without the suspicion cleared due to her "not guilty" verdicit, the CDA would still order the whale to be killed "based on past events in conjunction" since the public opinion is that the two orcas were the same. The possiblity does exist that the writers might have forgotten about the double jeopardy with the DLC case, tho.
  • Related to the shuttle launch: how could anyone think that moving a launch pad could be done in secret at any point in time? Even without the mentioned increased security detail, were there no media or bystanders around? Or, the night before, any minor, unnamed staff member on-site?
    • It was mostly done to protect Starbuck & Clay, and there wasn't much else that Cosmos could do since he couldn't cancel the launch due to government pressure. The government probably just ordered a media blackout given what had happened to the first launch, but didn't do much else. The switch was made the prior night, so Cosmos would have been able to shoo out lingering bystanders or non-informed staff and before the security detail was assigned.
  • When Phoenix Wright introduced fabricated evidence (which he didn't know was fabricated) in the backstory of AJ, it resulted in the trial immediately being halted and his being disbarred. In Turnabout Academy, Blackquill introduces the falsified tape recording from the crime scene, which is proven to be a fabrication, and he apparently suffers no penalty whatsoever for doing so. What gives?
    • Blackquill was under constant observation; there was no possible way for him to create said fake evidence. Since the tape was created by an outside party & given to be used in "good faith", Blackquill couldn't have been held responsible for it. The way that Kristoph set Phoenix up was that it made him look like the direct instigator of the creation of the fake evidence, and he was disbarred for it. And if you want to go deeper, the fake evidence in "Rise From The Ashes" was a big deal since it was the police (Gant and Lana, in a way) who created the fake evidence to get Joe Darke guilty for execution; Edgeworth got into some trouble and it helped ruin his reputation, but he was shown to have been manipulated and only used the fake evidence in good faith since he thought it was real.
  • Why didn't Athena notice Fakebright's emotionless nature until Turnabout to Tomorrow? She'd been talking to him the entire game, yet it's only there she notices that his extreme mood swings are an act. It's not like she can only use her hearing with the Mood Matrix. She was able to sense something was up with Juniper, Robin, and Hugh outside of court.
    • She had no reason to try to focus on his emotions since he was never under any scrutiny up until that point?
    • Well Fullbright has incredible control of his emotions. It seems he really loses control of them when he is nervous like when he was on trial. For most of the game he was in control of most situation so he would have been able to convey any emotion properly.
  • Why did Blackquill take the fall for Athena in the first place? Unlike him, she was a child at the time of the murder and would not have faced imprisonment or execution. Since the wrong person was going to be convicted either way, he could have remained free and used his resources as a prosecutor to discreetly work on solving the case, since verdicts can be overturned if new evidence comes to light.
    • There was some fairly decisive evidence to incriminate him, such as the video taken of him leaving the crime scene and the picture of him with the bloody katana. There's that and the fact that he's more emotional than he lets on, and that could have clouded his judgement during the trial.
    • Also Blackquill seems to take the code of bushido, he may have been trying to full-fill his duty to his master (Athena's mom) by protecting her legacy. That would entail protecting said legacy from the truth as Blackquill saw it.
    • Furthermore, Simon's dialogue during Case 5 implies that he was in the same boat seven years ago as Phoenix is during the impromptu trial: he really wanted to believe that Athena is innocent, and he may have had an idea of who actually killed Dr. Cykes (Phantom), but he doesn't have any proof of her innocence or of someone else's guilt. Remember, by the time Blackquill arrived at the lab, the Phantom had removed the only real evidence indicating his presence (he took the utility knife that Athena stabbed him with and hid the moon rock with his blood on it inside the Hope Capsule). In addition to the above explanations, because Blackquill is a man who knows that evidence is everything in court and who strongly values hard evidence himself, he very likely felt he had no other option. Thankfully, Phoenix provided an alternative...
    • I think it's much simpler than any of that; if he hadn't taken the fall, Athena would have been the only other known option and the knowledge that she did it (despite being false) would have driven her insane and possibly to suicide. It can be compared easily to a scene in Ghost Trick, where the main character refuses to kill a child only to go back in time and save her life, because in Ghost Trick, when you die and are saved, you have to live with that knowledge that you died. The main character refused to traumatise that child, instead prompting an alternate solution. In this case, the third option Blackquill took was blaming himself, rather than let Athena "die" (take the fall) and grow up with the trauma that she murdered her mother (the knowledge that she 'died'), just so he can "go back" and figure out who the real killer was.
  • So, is it just me, or was Aura more interested in proving Athena guilty and punishing her then freeing her brother? Well ok, maybe not more so, but clearly equally. When Phoenix started proving Athena innocent, she immediately started going off, saying that she wouldn't accept any other verdict but Athena's guilt, even though, by that point, her brother had more or less been proved innocent through his testimony. Now that can be hand waved by her long time grudge because she thought the latter was guilty, but then when Apollo shows up and accuses Athena of murder, she says that she wants to see him prove the Princess' guilt, meaning that she still wants to see Athena be declared guilty. It makes me wonder how she treated Athena when Metis was alive, since she clearly had no problem bearing a grudge against the daughter of the woman she.....had strong feelings for.
    • Aura seemed like the kind of person who has extreme emotions and little people skills, especially telling that she was more comfortable around programmable robots than people. It seems to be a trait she shares with her brother. As for Aura letting the trial continue after Apollo accused Athena, she most likely knew it had to do with the connection of the two shuttle bombings, which was connected to Metis's killer, so she kept up the act so the trial would continue.
  • How did Hugh O'Connor never realize that something was up with his grades? Regardless of how intelligent you are (and especially so for someone who knows he's not a genius), one will come up against problems that you know that you got wrong, either from being unable to answer them due to lack of knowledge, knowing that you were only unable to complete part of the problem, running out of time on a timed assignment, or comparing results with others after you get your assignments back. Hugh should have noticed SOMETHING was wrong when he got 100% on a question that he knew was wrong.
    • He probably noticed shortly before the events of the case, thus the phone call to his parents.
    • Presides that even during the time when he didn't notice, it's not unreasonable to think that he'd just shrug any times when he got 100% despite having written down any old crap as him actually having known the answer, and subconsciously writing the right thing despite not realizing it. That's the thing about writing the "wrong answer". Unless you're told you wrote the wrong answer, you can't know that you wrote the wrong answer. If you know the answer is wrong, you wouldn't write it, so if you're just writing any old crap hoping you somehow subconsciously wrote the right thing, if you're told you wrote the right thing you're just gonna assume that you subconsciously knew the answer. Hugh doesn't seem like the kind of person who'd write an obviously wrong answer when he doesn't know the actual answer. I'd assume he'd try and write the best answer he can think of, and he'd just assume he managed to subconsciously recall them all when he was doing so. He likely noticed eventually that this trend was going on for a little too long and too frequently, and that there was something up, hence the confrontation over phone with his parents.
  • Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Edgeworth keeps insisting that Athena (an elven-year-old!) killed her mother and refuses to consider any other possibility? He is by far one of the last people in existence who should be rushing towards that conclusion, especially considering his own past! Seriously, this behavior is extremely cold-hearted, even for him.
    • Someone somewhere else on this site had given a very good explanation. Because of the similarities between UR-1 and DL-6, Edgeworth is probably one of the few people outside the former case to know exactly what was going through both Blackquill's and Athena's minds. Because of this, he purposefully piled on the pressure on Phoenix, and by extension Athena so that everything will come to light. Remember when Edgey himself took the stand in 1-4, essentially confessing to the crime that he believed himself to commit? He wanted to put Athena into that position, because since what set him on the road to recovery from DL-6 was to have his confession, and the subsequent lie he had lived in for 15 years torn apart before his very eyes. Edgey's philosophy is that there is no escape from the truth, and that one should face that truth head on, regardless of how much it hurts. Even more to add to the Fridge Brilliance and similarities to DL-6, he had to play the role of Manfred so that Athena, who is in the same boat as Edgey was all those years ago, would have the same closure he got. All in all, if there is anyone that Edgey trusts to put the spiritual sequel to DL-6 to rest, it's Phoenix.
    • OP here. Thank you for re-directing me to that. Now it makes a lot more sense...
    • I kinda want to add that there's no way he thought she did it from the start, right? He had to make sure Phoenix closed off any notion that Athena did it to capture the REAL culprit. He actually ACTS like von Karma at points, such as when he demands the verdict be handed down, shortly before Blackquill gives testimony.
  • Why the hell did nobody ever see the Phantom leaving Dr. Cykes's lab before the final case? The autopsy report says that she died between 1:00 PM and 3:00 PM; that's a lot of time. Since Blackquill was spotted leaving at around 3:00 PM (the latest possible time), why did nobody even try to check the video footage before then? If someone did in fact see Phantom, why did they never consider him a suspect and try to search for him?
    • Yuri Cosmos says at some point that the case was rushed by the government. Probably, someone knew that Blackquill was innocent, but his actions made him to look related to the Phantom anyway.
  • As shocking a twist as it was, the real Bobby Fulbright being dead for at least a year hurts my head. Why did the police just identify the body now? What took them so long? And why did they use fingerprints instead of, say, blood or DNA? And sure, maybe we're supposed to wait until the next game to find out more, but still...
    • It could be assumed that Phantom, as Bobby Fulbright, switched the fingerprint data with someone else, much like he did with Athena. Upon the moment that suspision was placed on Fulbright's records, Edgeworth would then ask for any cases with unidentified cadavers that Fulbright handled be tested again, leading to the discovery.
  • We know Aura Blackquill tried numerous times to get her brother's conviction overturned and failed, but it bothers me how nobody else seemed to even try. Simon Blackquill's case is the pretty much whole reason why Athena became a lawyer, and why Phoenix re-took the bar exam (granted, he did it at Edgeworth's request, and Edgeworth made it much easier for him to get his badge back, but still). On top of those two, we also have Edgeworth pushing for Simon's innocence, and there's no way that he didn't know when Simon's execution date was. What the hell was the plan? Storm Simon's execution chamber and yell "HOLD IT!" at the last minute?!! What would have happened if Aura hadn't taken hostages? Or is it that the legal system is just so bad that not even two lawyers (one of them VERY prominent) AND the Chief Prosecutor combined can make a difference?
    • Because of Double Jeopardy. Which is said to be a part of the legal system of Ace Attorney in the third game. This is the very reason why Blackquill's execution could only have been put on hold under special circumstances, or if the initial verdict was found to be made under some sort of dodgy trial. There's two things that made Blackquill's conviction over-turn-able despite double jeopardy; The fact that the spy from seven years ago couldn't be Blackquill. This was proven by the fact the same person also sent the bomb threat to the space centre, and it meant that the government's cover up of a spy besides Blackquill from seven years ago would come into the view of Edgeworth and everyone else. The fact the goverment made a cover-up meant Blackquill's trial was unjust and therefore Double Jeopardy suddenly becomes void. Remember when this happened too. Phoenix didn't get through proving that that a third person could be at the scene until the end of Starbuck's trial, and it was this that prompted the entire notion that the spy could exist in the first place and that they could be someone presides Blackquill. Which, remember, was proven during the same few hours in which Blackquill's execution overturn was put as a goal. The second is that Aura had hostages held in a federal building, hostages who likely were important people in space research. This happened exact around the time that the government cover-up was becoming known to everyone, which helped push the retrial of UR-1 so it could be done by the end of the day.
    • OBJECTION! Double Jeopardy only applies to Not Guilty verdicts, a Guilty verdict can be overturned whenever as long as their is sufficient evidence to support it. Still, it's possible that Phoenix and Edgeworth DID have a plan... but the Space Center bombing happened, and then the Courtroom bombing and all their time got eaten up. Their only lead at that point was that the bomber might also be the Phantom, and so they ran with that. Edgeworth might have had a shot at getting a stay of execution had he not been so busy dealing with Aura's hostage situation.
  • While it makes sense narratively, why was Juniper's trial for bombing the courtroom happening between the two trial days of Solomon's trial? Was it really so critical that she placed on trial RIGHT THEN even though the trial that was disrupted did not have a chance to complete?
    • It was seen as a terroristic bombing in a Federal building, so it's highly plausible that they would fast track it. And given that the bombing happened for a trial of a murder which happened after the shuttle bombing, and was the same bomb, it could be seen as directly related.
  • Speaking of the first trial, why was Juniper the prime suspect in the first place? She had no motive (being brought up on false charges in Case 3 doesn't count, since she was also acquitted of said charges), nor does she have any background with explosives, and most importantly, she was in the room that was to be blown up (and could very well have ended up as one of the victims if it weren't for Apollo). If everyone had their head on straight, Ted Tonate should have been suspected right away, since he was one of the few people handling the bomb, the one who reacted to the bomb first, and has plenty of explosives training.
    • For starters, Juniper's motive was that she was brought up on false charges, which she was. It doesn't matter if you're acquitted of them, the entire fact it happened and the court drama that occurred due to it doesn't magically disperser in a puff of smoke. And secondly, at the time of the initial investigation, all the things pointing to Tonate were things that were part of his job, and therefore would exist anyway. Has plenty of explosive training? Of course he does, he's a bomb squad member. Handling the bomb? Yes because it was his job to do so. First to react to the bomb? So what, that doesn't mean he planted it just because he was the first to warn people about it. In fact, the opposite logic would make more sense; "He warned people about it, which the bomber themselves wouldn't do". The evidence pointing to Juniper was evidence that wouldn't exist until she had a hand in the bombing. Which is a much more compelling argument and case then just suspecting a bomb squad member who handled the bomb just because it was their job as a squad member to handled the bomb. And the point about Juniper being in the courtroom at the time...maybe the prosecution thought she planned a suicide bombing?
      • Still, I'd think Tonate would at least get suspended, given that if the bomb was in a state where a random high school student with no bomb experience can reactivate it in ten seconds, SOMEONE DIDN'T DISARM IT PROPERLY. Though I guess Detective Arme disarmed it and she was dead, but still...
  • In the final case, how could anyone take an extremely low quality recording, to the point where the speaker cannot be recognized, and use it to create a complete psychological profile?
    • Because you're looking at it from too much a real-life perspective. Metis has, what can be described as, a "super-human" ability to read emotions in voices. Which, we can assume is a genetic thing, since it passed down to Athena.
      • If I'm remembering correctly, wasn't it stated, or implied, in-game at one point that Metis didn't have Athena's super hearing? Metis had no clue where Athena's ability came from (which is assumed to be part of the reason she was researching her daughter's power), making it unlikely for Metis herself to use the same, or even similar, ability as Athena's to create a psychological profile based on a low quality recording of the Phantom's voice.
    • It was said that Metis, even without the super sensitive hearing of her daughter, was an expert in psychological profiling; so while the voice may not have been clear enough to identify, it probably still contained certain distinct elements in the vocal pattern. Hell, it's entirely possible that Metis actually got Athena to secretly help out with the profile, which probably went over her head as "more training from Mom" since her abilities were said to be even more powerful back then (due to lack of training) and could possibly find the speaker had no emotion.
  • Apollo says that he and Clay used to hang out at the Space Centre after school a lot. How did he not meet Athena in that time? He's 5 years older than her, and became friends with Clay in middle school, which is usually only 3 grades. Therefore, he should have met her at least once or twice. Even if you argue that they only went in high school, there would have been 2 years where he would have been able to bump into Athena. Clay for certain should have met Athena, since he was at the centre even more than Apollo and seemed to be considered part of the staff. Why doesn't she know him?
    • Maybe the robotics lab and the like were closed off to the public? The Cykes family residence is in the space centre (if I remember correctly, they say it's near to the Robotics Lab). Plus not only that, but Director Cosmos says that back then the space centre had really tight security. It can be assumed that while Apollo and Clay would have been allowed in, say, the more low security parts like the lounge, they wouldn't be allowed in the more development/research parts like the fourth floor where the robotics lab is. Even if we assume they went there before Athena's mother was killed, Athena most likely would spend her time mainly on the forth floor and therefore wouldn't run into Apollo or Clay. And after her mother's murder, it's pretty much assumed that she never left the forth floor AT ALL. As for Clay running into her when he went all the time...I remember this point being brought up in the actual case. Someone, I believe The Phantom, notes that since Clay was in the same building where Athena was living so often, it wasn't unreasonable that she could have developed some motive to want Clay dead over time. Athena never straight out denies knowing Clay as well. It can be assumed that Athena just didn't mention that she saw him before a few times because she wanted to avoid that she lives at the centre. She could very well know Clay, directly or other-wise. But either way, even if she didn't ever see Clay, it can be assumed that the reason is because, at the end of the day, Clay was still just a high school kid who didn't have high level access to the robotics lab and surrounding area.
      • I thought Athena went to Europe almost immediately after her mother died to live with relatives, like Ema did in Case 1-5? Before her mum died, we know Athena went to school, that's how she met Juniper, so she should and could have bumped into the boys when coming home from school, since the younger grades get out after the older students do, ergo they'd be at the lab when she got home from school. Athena also remarks in her narrative at the end of Case 3 that she never got to meet Clay because he was murdered. It takes a lot of coincidences, I'd think, for them to never meet, unless there's some back entrance that Athena would use to come home and stayed in her room when she wasn't at school. Since Apollo and Aura seem to know each other well, I assumed that they'd been to the robotics lab a lot as teenagers.
  • Ok this is really bothering me but... what the hell is with the Themis Legal Academy uniforms?! Like for some reason, the prosecutor course and defence course wear two-piece, more traditional-looking seifuku with the school emblem on the left side of their chest, short sleeves, and (for some reason) a yellow neckerchief thing, with the skirt, cuffs, and collar being red for the prosecutors and blue for the defence. Yet the girls in the judge course (and it's not just Juniper, mind, you can see when we first open up on Athena at the school that ALL the girls in that course wear the same uniform as Juniper) are grey one-piece sailor uniforms with the emblem on the placard part of their uniform, long sleeves, and a yellow neckerchief thingy (the only actual similarity the uniforms share). The boys are easy enough; you can see in the aforementioned shot opening on the school that the boys all wear the exact same uniform just in blue, grey, and red. Why don't the girls' uniforms match? And why is the judge course GREY? They're clearly grey, since all the female uniforms have the yellow neck thing. Why aren't they yellow? I mean I get that they wouldn't want to put everyone in yellow because not everyone looks good in it, but that can easily be rectified by having all the girls wear either the one-piece uniform with colour-coded neck doodads, or if they don't care, by wearing the two-piece seifuku and having their neck doohickies match the rest of the uniform and just have the judge girls wear yellow on their collars and skirts. Hell, maybe just colour the two-piece uniform with grey collars, cuffs, and skirts for the judges and keep the yellow neck thingamabobs for all the uniforms. Some animes do stick all their students in yellow or just one gender of students (Ouran has all their girls in yellow, for instance) so they could get away with it. There is no reason why the judge course has such radically different uniforms but only for the girls.
    • While the colour you refer to as gray looks more like dark-green to me, I'll have to say that it would make sense with gray for the judges anyway, as the main judge wears that particular colour, if only as a reference to him.
      • That still doesn't explain the complete difference in style for the judge uniforms.
      • Ah, yes. While this explanation could be considered a Voodoo Shark, I came up with an idea after taking a good look at the designs. The male uniforms look dignified already, meaning that the judge wouldn't need to look more professional than the others. However, the girls wearing Sailor Fuku hardly look like the people who are going to stand in court tomorrow. Now take a look at the attorneys, the prosecutors, and the Judge(s) in the game. Which group is the cause of the least Courtroom Antics? Apart from some strange remarks, the Judges - and even then, we only know of two of them, meaning that the majority of judges could be more level-headed. The judges look more professional because the society expects them to be more professional than their prosecutor and attorney students. Either that, or the judges look different to emphasize how they are not the opposite of anything in the courtroom, they just are. This still doesn't explain why all the males have almost identical uniforms design-wise, though... Maybe the difference mirrors how Athena (and, to a lesser extent, Franziska) have rather... odd dressing habits compared to some of their male co-workers?
  • Athena is stated to be a very bad actor, partly due to Widget's tendency to blurt out or show her feelings. She also has occasions where she'll look perfectly happy but Widget is crying. How is it then possible for nobody to have realized that Athena's a Stepford Smiler?
    • Because she probably isn't an actual Stepford Smiler, at least until Clay's murder. She's probably genuinely that happy most of the time. It's not like she goes around thinking about how her mother's dead and her past sucks every single day, she's got other things on her mind, like doing what she needs to do for her client. Speaking from personal experience, people who suffer depression don't always go around thinking about what's put them in depression, sometimes they do think about other things and genuinely forget for a few moments that something's wrong with them (even when there isn't). It's the same principle with Athena. She gets distracted from her past, and when she IS faking it, it's blatantly obvious. As to Widget, I think it has to do with the fact that Athena is so sensitive to others emotions that she half-feels what they feel, and Athena outwardly shows either her own emotions or the person she's empathizing with, where Widget displays the other. Not helped by the fact that Athena's "happy tears" animation has a "sad Widget" face because it's also her animation for her empathizing tears, which tend to be of the sorrowful variety.
    • It seems more than plausible that she wasn't Stepford Smiling until Clay's death, and I withdraw my original question. However, I want to share something else that has puzzled me. I wasn't exactly implying that "she goes around thinking about how her mother's dead and her past sucks every single day"; rather, I thought that it seems odd how Phoenix, with his Magatama, and Apollo, with his bracelet, both social and friendly people, wouldn't notice that something is upsetting their newest assistant. Having to work together for a while would invariably lead to casual talk, and probably rather personal questions... Of course, Phoenix and Apollo could phrase their questions in ways that wouldn't make their abilities go off, but how big is the chance of that happening with both of them when just asking casual questions? While Phoenix might not have his Magatama with him at all times, Apollo had to cover up an eye just to not notice Athena's habits, meaning that taking the bracelet off seems to not be an option to him.)
      • I think it has to do with how the abilities work, because they actually don't work the same way as the other (something that only just really clicked with me). Phoenix's Magatama detects secrets (both consciously hidden [red] and subconsciously hidden [black]), Apollo detects lies, and Athena detects a segregation in emotion and event. She detects falsities. The Magatama detects lies that are attempts to conceal a secret, where the Perception ability detects lies that are attempts to hide the truth. Most of the things Phoenix pries out of people through the Magatama are actually opinions, fears, ideas, and secrets, where Apollo forces out the truth and facts. Athena picks up on falsities told by the subconscious. Any time someone is obviously lying when using the Mood Matrix, it's usually blatant lies that the characters take note of, such as the entirety of O'Connor's last testimony or most of Captain Space Pirate's testimony. So with that knowledge... it makes sense that the Magatama never reacted, because Athena never tried to keep her past a secret. If she wanted to keep it a secret, she would have done everything she could to avoid going to the Space Centre and refused to tell Phoenix anything. Instead, she lied, and we know she kept setting off Apollo's ability (which has apparently gotten more and more sensitive since I think it's noted that he wasn't always looking at her when she lied). Apollo never took his bracelet off because there's actually no point; Case 2 tells us the bracelet can come off, as Filch steals it right off him at least twice. His ability is genetic and affects his eyes, that's why he wore the eyepatch. The bracelet just helps him. Strictly speaking, he doesn't need it. Apollo at least probably DID ask her, once he detected her starting to lie about her knowledge of the Space Centre, since his constant asking and her constant lying is what caused his slight instability during the case. She just lied to him.
  • I don't understand how the Dark Age of the Law was able to end with the culprit of the final case being a member of the police force who deceived people for years. Shouldn't that raise even MORE red flags?
    • The talk about the Dark Age of the law only seemed to mention that the court was in a dark age, meaning that the attorney and prosecutor who started it being found not guilty would make the court more trusted. Besides, the member of the police force was not himself, but an impostor, meaning that the public who'd only know about one Phantom would think that he's now harmless due to being behind bars. And it's not like we've had a Police Chief who's a criminal before... Perhaps the police force is seen as being in a dark era, and the game doesn't mention this because hey, what can YOU do about it?
    • Maybe I wasn't clear but... He infiltrated the police station and impersonated a detective for a year. That should raise red flags for what kind of police force we've got going for us, especially if we're already mistrustful of the court system imposed by people like "Bobby Fulbright", who though not directly employed by the courts, works for the courts because he works for the Prosecutor's Office, too. Meaning he's just as able to manipulate evidence as a prosecutor or a defence attorney. He might not be a lawyer, but he's still a huge part of the court system.
      • The Phantom was an elite spy capable of impersonating nearly anyone he comes across, who typically dealt with the shadowy affairs of high government espionage. He was not just a random guy who showed up and said "Hi, I'm Bobby Fulbright" and did this for a year where someone in the police could/should have noticed it. To think the police should be held responsible for not catching it is ludicrous.
  • Apollo's injuries were pretty bad after the bombing right? How come he was able to take off the bandages he got from the bombing and not open a few wounds? The wounds were only about four days old (bombing was on the 16th, final case was on the 20th) and yet he takes off the bandages and is able to proceed with court. Yet three days ago he actually fainted because of his injuries being so bad (either blood loss or sheer pain). And he's definitely been overexerting himself the whole time since he got them, so his injuries haven't had a chance to really close (presumably fainting a few more times, especially since he also got a head injury). I mean, an answer to this apart from Hollywood Healing.
    • I'd peg it on It's Personal combined with Heroic Resolve and the legal equivalent of Roaring Rampage of Revenge. It's already confirmed that Apollo is a Determinator, and Adrenaline can do awesome things to broken bodies. Case 5-1 was probably 15 minutes to a half-hour after the fact, and the Adrenaline there wasn't enough to compensate for the pain of internally bruised everything, since looking at the bandages being bone-dry even on 5-1 I'd say the damage was internal. Given a good day or so to simmer down and recover, the Adrenaline took care of most of the pain.
      • Athena says he bled through his bandages, though.
  • So Nick occasionally visited Edgeworth in Europe during his time disbarred. My question is, where was Trucy while he was in Europe? Did he bring her with him or did somebody else take care of her? And if it's the latter, who took care of her?
    • Phoenix wouldn't leave Trucy behind, but in the event that he needed to, the most convenient choice in a caretaker would be Apollo.
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