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Headscratchers: Percy Jackson and the Olympians
  • In the Demigod Diaries, Luke and Thalia are living rough, battling monsters and just trying to stay alive. They don't know about Camp Half-blood, but somehow, Luke knows that they're demigods. OK, so that can be explained when he mentions having met other demigods in his years on the run; presumably somebody explained to him what he is at some point. And OK, that could explain why he knows about Celestial Bronze. But how, HOW, does he know that he's a son of Hermes, specifically? And that Thalia is a daughter of Zeus? Considering that there are kids at the camp that have no idea who their godly parent is, how could two demigods on the run know? Even if they had been officially claimed, who would know what the symbols over their head even meant? Then, OK, so they know *about* Celestial bronze via word of mouth from other outlaw demigods, but how in the world did they GET any? Luke and Thalia have safe houses scattered about that are stocked with, among other things, caches of Celestial bronze weapons. This just doesn't work out. If there's some logical, in-universe explaination for why Luke and Thalia know who they are (or who they're from)AND where they got not just one or two CB weapons but entire caches' worth, it needs to be spelled out, because otherwise it just leaves the reader confused.
    • Lukes mother knew. she probably told him. as for Thalia I think her mother told her too. Especially considering what we find out about Thalia's mother in Heroes of Olympus.

  • Two words: LORD ANTAEUS. The giant in the Labyrinth in the fourth book. You know, the son of Poseidon and Gaea. Can ANYONE explain to me how that is not Squick to the tenth power? Gaea is Poseidon's grandmother!!! Also, she's incredibly evil and at almost no time has she ever wanted to do anything but destroy the gods. But mostly, brother and sister (incest) is typical, since Hera and Zeus are that. Child and parent? Eww. Child and grandmother?!!! SQUUUIIIIIIICKKKK!!
    • First, its Greek mythology. With everyone sleeping with their sister and want no this isn't that big a deal by this point. Two, its implied genetics and stuff is not the same for gods as it is for mortals. Third, IIRC in myth Anteus was more an accident. Poseidon was pursuing someone else and for lack of a better term missed.
    • The books are basically recycled Greek mythology, however well done, so you can't blame them for staying faithful to the source. Riodan actually handled it quite well, not editing the squick out but not drawing attention to it either (unless it's so Percy can snark about it).

  • Why are the gods so bad at staying with a single mortal woman? Out of the ones we know about, two of the seemingly less dependable ones stayed with their loved ones until tragedy happened, but Athena and Poseidon both moved on without any reason whatsoever, and their partners also treat it as the most normal thing, and are still on Just Friends terms with them. Why, exactly?
    • Well, the Tenth Doctor said it best: "You can spend the rest of your life with me...but I can't spend the rest of mine with you."
    • I figure if you live for eternity, your sense of personal loyalty to those who drop as quickly as flies gets SKEWED.
    • I dunno. Ask the Greeks.
      • Poseidon also knew that he wasn't supposed to have had Percy, so he probably figured that by staying away he would lessen the chances of the boy being discovered. Also, since we don't know the circumstances of Annabeth or any of the other's births, Athena could view her children almost as construction projects. She meets with someone with whom she has a close connection, they work together and come to develop a strong mutual appreciation of each other, and then finally the brain child (hardy har har) is completed and Athena leaves the project for new ones, only occasionally checking up on it like a building that needs work done while the male parent becomes more a permanent caretaker. I'll stop this analogy now and end by also saying that several times the gods say they aren't allowed to directly interfere with things, which does seem to extend somewhat to their children's entire lives, so as long as the parents intend to keep the kids around the gods can't be there as well.
    • Heh heh. ""Hardy".
    • I'm sorry, but are you categorizing Hades as less dependable? Hades, the single god who, in all of the Greek myths, was shown to be almost completely faithful to his wife? Hades, who's one "cheating" story is so little known I've only been able to find one account of it, and who, in the story in question, never made if past kissing, and only went that far to see of his wife loved him enough to stop him? That Hades?
      • The gods were never all that dependable. In the sequel series, which concentrates more on demigods who aren't children of the big three, there are a few excuses given: Aphrodite claims that the man wouldn't be happy knowing that the mythology is real, Hephaestus is just plain antisocial and stuff. Still, it's probably just that the gods don't feel like it.
    • Surely, dependability would consist of staying in your own realm and looking after your responsibilities, rather than hanging around sexy humans?
    • Also, while the Gods do have marriage and child-rearing, it's not really clear that they strongly resemble human ones. They might be going by the standards of Ancient Greek relationships or have expectations for a long-term relationship that humans are incapable of meeting.
    • When you have lived for millennia time would go by in the blink of an eye. To the gods their human partners and demigod children are only extremely fleeting relationships, passing by in a moment, and leaving the gods heartbroken. I can't blame them for not growing attached.

  • Celestial Bronze. Much is made of this wonderous material in the first book, along with the statement that demigods are especially vulnerable since both mortal weapons and Celestial Bronze hurts them. Luke's sword Backbiter is described to be horrid because it's possible of hurting both mortals and not. Yet in later books, things such as shotguns, mundane explosions, and blue plastic hairbrushes have been seen to kill or at least hurt even Titans. Whats the big deal? What's the point in having a dual-material weapon, if a regular iron one wll do just as well?
    • Well if you think about it, really think about it, a shotgun blast still packs more force than any mortal can put into a sword swing. And of course an explosion would hurt. An explosion isn't a weapon- it's a massive expulsion of heat, energy and pressure. An explosion which is quite a bit higher on the scale of lethality than a sword, magical or not. As for the hairbrush, it probably didn't really hurt him so mush as shock him and its worth noting he was in a human body at the time anyway. I'm guessing though that higher ranked monsters could probably shrug off human weaponry for the most part though which is the reason half-bloods carry it. Besides, it's the only weapon we see that can hurt the gods.
      • The other troper forgot that all the explosives were of magical Greek fire so naturally it would do the job. Though based on how it's described in Sea of Monsters, the way it functions sounds suspiciously like the way a hand grenade works.
    • I remember a mention in the third book of celestial bronze bullets. Annabeth's dad found some in her stash, right?
      • The Sequel Series actually has a specially made shotgun in the armory that fires celestial rounds
    • In d&d terms: dr 10/celestial bronze or regenerate/celestial bronze. In terms for normal people: they're resistant to damage from mundane sources, or you can blow holes in them but it'll grow back unless it's celestial bronze.
      • It also cuts the other way. Celestial metals are highly toxic to monsters, so any cut from a celestial bronze weapon will kill a weaker monster, whereas you presumably need a lethal shot to do the job with regular weapons.
    • Also, remember how in titan's curse Percy deflected bullets from the skeletons' sidearms with Riptide? Monsters can probably do the same. The guy Percy's mother shot was probably just caught by surprise. Kronos was only just into his mortal body-when Rachel threw the brush it unsteadied him. Furthermore, Celestial bronze is implied to make sharper and stronger swords than mortal steel - Percy frequently slashes through rock and metal with it without doing it the slightest bit of harm.
    • In the shotgun scene in question is not the shotgun that kills the monster, it just pushes the monster towards a demigod weapon, it is being pierces by that weapon what actually destroys it.

  • Annabeth's siblings. They're described in the first book as sharing her blonde hair and gray eyes, the latter of which is understandable, since it's a trait inherited from their mother. But Annabeth quite obviously inherited the former from her father - seeing as her mother has black hair. So how do her siblings all share the same hair color? Does Athena just have a thing for blonds?
    • They're made intellectually, so the rules of natural birth don't really need to apply. She could shape them to her image.
      • It makes more sense too, since Athena was always a virgin in Greek mythology and thus would never really procreate with any man, blond or no.
      • You missed the handwave. She never uh, joined in the gods' traditional pastime. She presumably gave birth to her daughters about the same way she was, born from her mind.
    • And gods can appear in practically any form they choose. Maybe Athena decided to go for black hair after a century of being blond.
      • Maybe she doesn't approve of the "Dumb Blonde" stereotype?
    • Also, in the Titan's Curse Percy describes her as: 'looking so much like Annabeth I almost called her that' so at that point she must have been still Blond, since otehrwise he would have described her differently...
  • So how come Demeter was seen as hiding out in the underworld with her brother (Hades) and Persephone? Did Hades decide that since she's Persephone's mother, that she could stay down there with her? Or is he afraid that Demeter could destroy the world if he pisses her off again. (Remember in Greek Mythology she almost starved the world because Zeus sold her daughter off).
    • Ten drachmas says Persephone nagged Hades to get her mother out of harm's way (what with Typhon coming and Kronos' attack) by taking her to the underworld with them.
    • As far as I know, nobody is outright banned from the Underworld. It's just that nobody usually wants to visit, as it's depressing.
    • a), Demeter and Persephone never took part in the first (Greek mythology) Titan wars anyway; b) where do you expect Demeter to be when Armageddon is knocking? Right.
      • Demeter might have been, besides the fact that she's a woman, and frankly, I haven't seen a lot interpretations/translations where women fought in the first Titan War. Social rights wasn't too much of a concept in ancient history.
  • The Plan in The Last Olympian. It's understandable that, since the story is told from Percy's point of view, the audience isn't going to know things that he doesn't know. The Prophecy is an example of that. However, Nico's plan was plainly known by Percy while the audience was left in the dark. For chapter. After chapter. After chapter. Even when his mom asks about the plan, Percy tells her. In a sentence much like that. This troper enjoyed the books, but that little ordeal of Fake Suspense was extremely irritating.
    • This troper found it annoying too, but now that I think about it, it would've been even more boring if everything was stated from the beginning. Sometimes Fake Suspense is ever-so-slightly better that none at all, but of course YMMV.
  • It's been established that Olympus (along with the gods) moves to wherever the cornerstone of Western Civilization is (first Greece, then Rome, and currently the USA). Why then are demigods "hardwired" to only be able to read Ancient Greek fluently? Given the transient nature of the gods, shouldn't it actually be easier for them to understand all languages and texts rather than just one, specifically from a region the gods themselves have not been based out of for thousands of years?
    • Because even though they are moving with Western Civilization, they are still Greek. They want to keep at least something of their homeland. Add to that you can hand wave it that the reason the demi-gods are like that is because their parent is a god and anything goes.
    • It's better explained in the sequel that while their taste match the country the flame is brightest in, they are still connected to their birth country and would fade if it was destroyed.
      • Why, exactly? According to the myths, the gods existed long before humanity. Why would they suddenly be tied to the civilization that worshiped them?
      • Maybe it's just that being prayed and sacrificed to just influences them more than simply living in a specific country.
      • This troper has always assumed that in-universe, the gods are just meant to be personifications of ideals rather than actual literal beings. Note that any myth which contradicts modern science is sort of glossed over- Apollo's chariot isn't the sun, it's made out of what people think of the sun (or something). So the gods could just be the concept of Western/Greek civilization (or the part of western civilization inspired by Greece) personified. By the same token, monsters seem to represent chaos (antithetical to civilization) or nature (satyrs getting reincarnated as flowers.
  • In The Last Olympian, we learn that Gods don't have genes, so while a relationship between any two demigods with the same Olympian parent is taboo, a relationship between two demigods with completely different sets of parents is a-okay. But if Gods don't have genes, what is the difference between the two? What makes two of Apollo's kids gettin' it on so much worse than Annabeth and Percy's relationship?
    • Hmm... Maybe because they would have lived with each other for some time? Or their godly parents would be disgusted by it? Wait, nevermind, these are the Greek gods... Sorry, can't help.
    • Maybe it's a psychological thing? Like, it's techicially not incest, but they know they have the same mom or dad, so it's still squicky, but don't feel as squicked out with someone from another cabin?
      • It never says the gods forbid it, just that it doesn't happen - too squicky for the mortal raised halfbloods.
      • That's exactly right. Also, readers want to see Percy and Annabeth together, but feel squicky if they're reading incest. This explains it away so nicely!
    • Maybe he means that the gods, being of a different ontonlogical nature to humans, don't have the same kind of genetic resemblance to each other - the gods aren't treated as being related to each other in this regard, but their half-human children still share the same parent.
      • It's also perhaps to do with the convoluted Greek family tree. Athena is Poseidon's brother's daughter, so since Percy is Poseidon's son and Annabeth is Athena's daughter, Percy is technically like her uncle once removed, which would be enough distance in a normal mortal relationship anyway. Whereas if Percy and Annabeth had the same parent they would be half siblings, which, genes or no, is probably just a little too close.
      • Actually, Percy and Annabeth would be first cousins once-removed. Percy is the son of Poseidon. Athena is the daughter of Zeus. That makes Percy and Athena first cousins. Annabeth is Athena's daughter, therefore she and Percy are first cousins once-removed. This troper is personally far more squicked out by the implications of something between Luke and Thalia, considering that, since Hermes is the son of Zeus, and therefore Thalia's brother, and Luke is the son of Hermes, Thalia is Luke's aunt. And you can't even use the "different gods" excuse to get around that one.
    • The Greek gods are beings spun of power and magic, not genes and cells. They don't have genes because they're completely different than human beings, they exist because people believe in them. It's more about magic than genetics, and a lot of myths reflect that.
      • Siblings are usually not attracted to each other by default, both through psychological and physical\hormonal reasons. Cousins are less of a big deal, and if they're only related through their godly parent, then they have everything listed above as an excuse. Siblings would still have to think "out daddy is the same person", which would be squicky for them regardless of genetics. I've always assumed, though, that even if gods are beings of energy, demigods would still have their traits (maybe except for the supernatural ones) translated into their genetic code.
    • The thing about incest is that the problems associated with it stem from the likely hood that both carry the recessive alleles for the same genetic disorders. Granted, people who are unrelated but carry the same recessive alleles unknowingly have kids together, but it is much more likely in two closely related individuals. I interpreted the whole situation when Percy mentioned it as something that was not technically incest, but rather the gods being gods having none of the genetic problems that warranted the incest taboo through their side of the family.
  • Apollo, while arrogant and frankly kind of a dork, is portrayed in PJatO as essentially good. On the other hand, rapists are generally considered, you know, bad. So any theories on what really went down regarding that whole "Cassandra" incident?
    • For those of you out of the loop, in the original mythology, Apollo thought Cassandra was cute and gave her the ability to see the future, then got pissed when she turned him down anyway, and cursed her with the whole 'no one will believe you' thing.
    • Pre-series character development, maybe? None of the Gods are as big of jerks as they were in the original mythology anyway.
    • Or, going with something like the above troper's suggestion, perhaps some aspects of the gods' values changes with the times. For example, in traditional Greek Mythology, female demigods are usually princesses and/or abnormally beautiful, but not heroes. But now in the PJatO universe, female heroes are perfectly acceptable and encouraged. So, what with rape being much more frowned upon nowadays, the gods don't do that anymore? Though that doesn't explain why they still have loads of affairs. Alternatively, since there's many different versions of the same myths and Riordan even changed some things from Greek Mythology, maybe the PJatO Greek gods didn't go around raping people?
      • Going with the idea that they've changed, one would assume the mortal affairs are consensual.
      • Which makes sense if the Gods are the embodiments of Western Civilization - when they lived in a time when rape was okay, they raped. Now that it's a big no no, they don't do it anymore.
    • The original post only made mention of Apollo, but come on - just about every Greek god and goddess did absolutely horrific things according to the commonly known and studied myths, and the gods do nothing to deny them. Why is anyone willing to give them any respect or look on them with anything but horror, even if they have stopped raping or killing out of petty revenge and so on? It's not fear in the series, and just because you have a parent doesn't mean you love them, so love isn't necessarily the reason...
      • The gods were not beings of pure evil like many modern people think. Most of them were live and let live unless you did something big to piss them off. Zeus, the god of morals, was ironically the worst of them all. Its made clear he and several others like Hera and Ares are feared more than loved. You respect them because of what they will do you to if you do not. Their kids want acceptance by their parents. Others have their personality quirks, but are not evil abominations.
      • It may also have something to do with the viewpoint of their current seat of power. In Ancient Greece, for example, the term hero didn't mean person who goes above and beyond to aid those in need and defend the helpless but rather person who is powerful or smart enough to do whatever they damn well please. The gods were revered as greater than heroes. Essentially, in Ancient Greece, people believed the gods had the right to rape because nobody could stop them anyway. Later countries, such as America, have a different attitude, namely we don't care who the hell you are, you don't get to rape someone. As well, it may also have to do with different attitudes—the Greeks merely told stories, they never judged the subjects of those stories. If you go purely by direct mythology, the Titans were never said to be better or worse than the gods, merely that they were overthrown by them. Contrast America, where we harshly judge and criticize people, especially those in positions of power. Look at this page. Heck, look at some of our tropes. We were viciously trodding all over Zeus well before Riordan started writing his books, magic rapist that he is.
      • One must also consider that it's seriously implied in the books that Ancient Greek mythology is not exactly what happened. (For instance, when Theseus is briefly raised from the dead by Nico Percy comments that he looks like a teenager similar to himself, and Hephaestus mentions that Hera was the one who threw him off Olympus as opposed to Zeus as most records say.) It's possible Cassandra really did do something to piss Apollo off or some incident happened, but she told her version of the story to put herself in a better light.
      • Also, there's a lot fewer cases that are definitely rape-as-we'd-define-it in Greek mythology than a causal reading would suggest, because the word rape is mostly used in the classical sense - taking the woman away from the people she belonged to. Any sex in this situation is likely to be rape, (because kidnapping does not demonstrate a great regard for consent and because the power imbalance makes consent difficult,) but not necessarily.

  • Something I think people forget is that at one point the greek gods were actually The Greek Gods, meaning people actually saw them as something admirable and worthy of worship. You can take that two ways: either the ancient greeks were a bunch of sick bastards or that in the millennia since the original Values Dissonance has been Flanderized beyond all belief (literally). I'm going with the second myself.
    • Gods are created to explain the unexplainable. In the Greek mythology, gods were just as flawed as humans, perhaps even more so, because gods had far less consequences for their actions without the threat of eternal punishment after a death that would not come. The Greeks believed in the gods, and worshiped them because they truly believed they controlled everything. If you don't leave a good enough sacrifice on Demeter's altar, you're crops will wither and die and you will starve. You laugh about Zeus's cheating ways, and he'll strike you dead in an instant. Yes, they saw them worthy of worship, because they believed that if they didn't worship them, they would die. The gods have never been "something admirable".
      • This isn't completely true. The Greeks admired the benevolent side of the gods. Zeus and his upholding of public order. Poseidon protecting you at sea. Aphrodite and her protection of lovers. Etc. However, they viewed the gods has being like humans and having a dark side too. The gods were superior to mortals and could do things mortals were not allowed to. Humans were not the center of the universe. The gods were. Humans were more like really intelligent animals. The difference is nowadays fictional portrayals emphasis the dark sides without the good sides as well. Riordan is actually giving a fairly balanced portrayal.
      • The gods were supposed to be morally flawless according to some early myths. I'm not sure how they got flandarized into their common portrayal, but it's probably just because flawless characters wouldn't make a good story.
      • Blue and Orange Morality
  • Why did it take so long for anyone to determine who Percy's father was? Heck, Annabeth, supposed to be wise and all being daughter of Athena saw what he did during the bathroom incident and didn't even get a hint? How many Greek deities associated with water are there to have any confusion, after all?
    • Lots actually. More or less every river, lake or individual sea had its own associated deity. Poseidon is just the most significant of them.
      • Yes, but in this case we're talking about toilet water.
      • True, but the book doesn't mention any sort of lodging for children of lesser gods. Or children of lesser gods, at all. Of the 12, he surely is the only one, and if you know just a little bit of Greek Mythology, trusting a god to keep a promise isn't all that reliable, especially considering Zeus himself broke it, too.
      • Actually it does - when Luke is explaining things to Percy, he mentions that Percy could also be the kid of a minor god who has no cabin. Cabin Eleven is so full because they take everyone not claimed and those who aren't children of Olympians. Additionally, there's Ethan Nakamura, son of Nemesis, and his being on the side of Kronos because he was promised proper respect for the minor gods and their offspring.
    • Consider that everyone was hoping for him not being Poseidon's son. Chiron because of the prophecy, Annabeth because of her mother's rivalry. There is a little of denial about Percy's parent.
    • This could also be seen as a respect issue. If a god has not yet claimed his child it would be disrespectful to presume its ok for you to say its his kid, no matter how obvious it is. You don't want to get on a god's bad side, after all.
  • Okay, so Percy's Mom's husband (can't remember their names ever) is kind of a dick, true. However, why the hell does being a Jerkass make it okay to MURDER HIM? By turning him to stone, no less.
    • Years of physical and emotional abuse, bullying a twelve year old, forcing said 12-year-old to pay for his beers.
    • He was abusing her, the former love of a god. Percy imagines that Gabe's fate in the Underworld is to play poker in boiling oil for eternity.
    • It was strongly implied he abused Percy.
      • That was never outright stated or shown. Beside which, that is still not a reason to KILL someone. Contact the police, damn it.
      • If someone was abusing my mother I'd want them dead. Secondly, killing out of self-defense is generally considered acceptable. Killing someone in retribution for years of abuse is a-okay in my book. Then again, I've been called Axe Crazy.
      • Just imagine what Poseidon could've done to him if he found. Being turned to stone sounds pretty good now, doesn't it?
      • I think there's a fanfiction based on that idea.
      • Plus, with the contact-the-police idea, there are far too many domestic abuse cases where the victims would call the police and they wouldn't help for numerous reasons.
    • Isn't it implied that those turned to stone by Medusa don't actually die unless their statue is broken? I'm pretty sure Percy said something about Gabe not deserving eternal punishment, even though he was such a horrible guy.
    • Are we even sure his stoning was her fault? Maybe he was rooting through her stuff and did it to himself.
      • That's what happened in the Movie. Makes it seem more like Gabe though.
      • The stoning was specifically done by Sally Jackson in the books: she sells Gabe as a sculpture titled "the Poker Player" to some art gallery and makes a killing off it.
      • What movie? There was no movie. There was never any piece of crap movie just barely based on the first book of the series.
      • Hey, I don't hate the movie any less than you, but this one scene was just unremarkable, while the one in the book made me go WTF. I know it mirrors the mythology, but still, that's no reason to kill (?) Gabe's poker buddies along with him.
      • She didn't kill Gabe's friends on the book. She sold him off as "the poker player" (SINGULAR). So it is strongly implied that she killed just Gabe when his friends had left. And considering this is a man who abused his and his adopted son, and provided no financial support for the latter to speak of and threatened to turn him into the police, I'd say Gabe deserved what was coming to him.
      • Whatever happened or not in the movie, it is entirely possible that Gabe was never killed directly by Sally (as much as we see Sally imply it with "meat loaf surprise", we're already aware Sally has a sense of humor plus she had previously shown misgivings about doing this to Gabe). It's possible a situation identical to or at least similar to the one seen at the end of the movie took place and Gabe sealed his own fate, and Sally just took "credit" for it in her letter to Percy.
      • Also remember that Percy, despite being an American, is also very Greek (his brain being hardwired for the language and all, plus his stout defense of Greek culture and the Greek side of the gods in Son of Neptune over the Roman side of things). Just like he and the rest of Camp Half-Blood are naturally predisposed to the Greek language, they're probably also predisposed to the Greek way of doing things, vigilante justice and all that.
      • There's no real need for it to be an innate disposition. Percy and Sally could both have picked up on the attitudes of the supernatural people they hang out with. That (and My Country, Right or Wrong) are enough to explain Percy. It's not clear whether Sally has enough contact with Gods and Monsters to have the same effect, but it seems more likely than homicidal tendencies accompanying clear-sightedness, an ability that might or might not be associated with Ancient Greece.
    • Thematically, killing Gabe makes sense, because it reinforces the damage he did to Percy and Sally. It puts him on the same level as the Monsters.
    • And of course, let's not forget the reason why Sally really stayed with Gabe was because Percy is the son of Poseidon. Smelly Gabe just happened to be strong enough to mask Percy's scent and protect him from monsters.

  • Near the end of the second book, Luke gives the impression that he is perfectly willing for Annabeth to be eaten by his bear-man minion. This seems a bit out of character for me, since throughout all the rest of the books he generally seems to not want her to die. For example, in the third book, he hesitates about killing her when they don't need her any more, then in the fourth book, he orders his minions to kill Rachel and Percy, but not her. I know he's a complete Jerk Ass, but the rest of the time he goes out of his way to not hurt her when he gets the chance, so why doesn't he in the second book?
    • Well, Kronos on the ship and he probably didn't want to look weak in front of him.
    • It might be more that Luke is perfectly willing to pretend to be about to kill Annabeth, if that's what he needs for leverage against Percy. There was never any chance that Percy would stand there and watch any of his friends eaten, and Luke could have prepared for it in advance with a quick 'hey, if I tell you to kill Jackson's friends, don't start with the blonde girl.'
  • I thought of this when Annabeth said she wanted to visit Greece: If all the Greek gods, monsters, and even "geographic locations" are now in America, what the heck is left in Greece?
    • Only the magical locations are there. The ruins - like the Parthenon, say - remain in Greece; also, it's probably worth something to see the original locations, at least for sentimental value.
    • Also as revealed later in T Ho O, the ancient ruins are still deeply connected to the gods.
  • In the third book, it says that all of Artemis's hunters are immortal, unless they're killed in battle. Why? I know they said it's unlikely, but why does that matter? Nothing is stopping Artemis from just making them all 100% immortal, so why not? If she had done that, it would havekept Zoe from dying. Are they afraid the hunters might rebel against them or something?
    • I think full-fledged immortality is only granted in extenuating circumstances. Actually, looking at Greek Mythology, their are plenty of times when the gods wanted to protect/immortalize someone and instead of just making them immortal did something weird like transforming them into plants and animals. Apparently only the gods get to have full immortality.
    • Artemis gives the Hunters eternal youth, not eternal life. Nowadays we don't tend to draw much of a distinction between the two, but Greek mythology did.
    • True immortality is only granted to gods or their immortal consorts.
    • The Last Olympian mentions that Zeus needs the approval of the whole counsel to grant true immortality. Presumably that's too much trouble for Artemis to go through. Also, even gods can die (Pan) or be killed (Kronos).
  • This troper hates it how everyone forgave Silena. She basically betrayed camp and endangered them all. Because she was seduced by Luke.
    • Well, she did sacrifice herself to save the camp.
    • This troper has to agree with the first troper. Silena took it really bad after Beckendorf died, but still continued to provide information to Luke? I mean, I suppose she could've been hypnotized or something, but it didn't seem that way. And it was only after Annabeth took the knife that she finally lost it and decided to switch. Since when did she and Annabeth get on so well?
      • I think it's stated that she felt awful about it from the beginning, but as soon as she provided any information at all, Luke threatened to expose her as The Mole to everyone and she didn't want people to find out. So at first it was a poor decision, and then she was blackmailed into staying as the informant. Given that the more experienced campers were also [[taken in by Luke]] and mostly have pretty low expectations of the children of Aphrodite's decision making ability, it's easier for them to see her as Luke's dupe than a traitor in her own ight.
    • The Last Olympian has a strong Redemption Equals Death theme going. Silena saved all their butts and sacrificed herself by getting Ares camp to come, so they consider her redeemed.

  • Wouldn't Dionysus, Apollo, and Artemis all technically be half-bloods?
    • My Greek mythology is rusty but Dionysus was conceived by a mortal woman but upon seeing Zeus's divine form, she was incinerated and died. Zeus took the apparently took the embryo and sowed it into his thigh. So Dionysus can be handwaved. I don't remember about Apollo and Artemis though.
    • Apollo and Artemis's mom was a Titan. So was Hermes's, actually. I suppose that makes them demigod-demititans, but they're not mortal-parent demigods.
      • Also keep in mind that the original seven Olympians were also the children of Titans. There's no biological (metabiological?) difference between the two factions; it's a matter of title, not species. So Apollo, Artemis, and Hermes aren't half-bloods (nor are Hephaestus and Athena, who are grandchildren of Titans, though their status isn't in dispute anyway). Dionysus still requires the above handwave, though.
    • In The Last Olympian, the gods offer to make Percy a god. This implies that half-bloods can become gods if they do enough. Maybe the half-blood gods managed to rise in power over time.
      • Hercules was said to have become a full god after his death, his cremation burning away the mortal part of him and leaving only the divine.
      • I think it was outright stated that Dionysus was mortal at one point and was made a god.
      • In Percy Jackson and the Greek Gods, it's... speculated that Dionysus was elevated to true godly status by having an enormous number of worshippers. It also makes specific mention that Gods Need Prayer Badly, so it's certainly one possibility.

  • What pissed me off is Dionysus' rant about heroes in the third book, pointing out how Thesus abandoned Ariadne. Cue Percy more or less just agreeing with it when the proper response would be, "demigods being dicks and assholes to mortals who help and/or love them, gee I wonder where they learned that from?" What with a fair number of greek heroes being the product of outright rape on the part of their divine parents, then being saddled with the blame for their parents' indiscretions and made to clean up after the gods' messes. Is it any surprise that most demigods are slightly less than well adjusted?
    • True, but actually coming out and saying this to a god's face is only going to make them angry, and you wouldn't like them when they're angry. Not even Hestia.
      • The way I heard the myth was that Dionysus came up to Theseus and told him to leave Ariadne behind because Dionysus wanted her for his wife. It doesn't sound like Theseus actually decided to just leave because he was a jerk. When I read that rant on demigods I was like "What?"
      • Yeah, cause the gods aren't known for being hypocrites or anything.
      • There are multiple versions of Greek myths on record and some do say that Theseus indeed dumped Ariadne on an island on his own accord, so it's possible for Riordan to have just taken that version.
    • In story, I think Percy was just shocked that a guy who'd always seemed to be a jerk for the sake of it actually had a genuine grievance. However, I suspect that the meta-textual reason that it is not challenged is that, while the reader very often sees demigods blamed for the actions of parents they barely know, it is very easy for the reader to judge the Gods the same way, discounting them all as worthwhile people for the way we see them act. It's a subtle way of calling out the people who have Moral Myopia and making us notice the shades of grey.

  • The whole Nico/Rachel ship. I'm going to ask you other fans: Nico is 13/14. Rachel is 16/17. Rachel is now a maiden. Like, until death. Why are people shipping them?
    • Pair the Spares? Rachel fans want their beloved to be happy so they attach her to the next most significant character. Nico fans may be looking for a romantic option for their favorite dead kid. Personally, I'm investigating alternative pairings for Nico mostly involving another child of a death god...
    • Being a shipper of them myself I can definately say that it's Pair The Spares. People need to pair Nico with SOMEONE and Annabeth or Clarisse or Thalia just doesn't...work.
      • Maybe he'll find someone in the Roman camp?
    • This troper agrees with the first troper. Why do Nico and Rachel need to be romantically involved at all, with anyone?
    • To this troper, Nico/Thalia is a bigger headscratcher. Larger age gap: Nico is still 13/14 but Thalia is mentally 17/18. Like Rachel, Thalia's an eternal maiden. But you can bet Artemis would be less forgiving of her fricking Lieutenant breaking her vows, than Apollo of his Oracle. (In the myths, Artemis killed such 'traitors'). Plus Thalia enjoys being a Huntress AND she's immortal AND permanently travelling. At least Rachel and Nico are both around camp: There's potential for interaction. (Romantic or not). With Thalia and Nico, there's none at all. Why do people ship them?
      • "They both wear black" is the main reasoning.
      • Don't question shipper logic, lest your head goes boom.
      • Wouldn't recent developments in House of Hades, affect that?
      • Since when has something as simple as a character's sexuality stopped people from their shipping?

  • Celestial Bronze only harms mythical beings, correct? Seems to me that Percy and Co would be fairly screwed if Kronos just sent guys with guns after them. Hell, big strong guys with sticks would suffice because there's not much Percy's little "only kills monsters" blade could do to stop them. Granted that wouldn't be much of a story if Kronos just sicced a gang of mercenaries on Percy but if their weapons wouldn't work, what's to stop them from getting killed dead by mortals with shotguns?
    • He wanted Percy on his side. In Greek mythology you cant fight fate and so when a prophecy says when this douchebag turns sixteen hes either going to kill you or help you takeover the world you better goddamn make him want to work with you.
    • Plus, remember Percy's block-bullets thing? And that demigods are implied far stronger and, well, just better than mortals? or maybe the gods just think, "hey, it's embarrassing if mortals go around shooting our kids. I'll turn his gun into a dead fish."
  • Demigod's level of power; how strong are we talking here? They're head and shoulders above laymen mortals but divine blood isn't the only way people come across enhanced strength and improved reflexes. Say if a demigod went up against a well trained mortal martial artist who would win? Could the Half-Bloods outfight a U.S. Marine or an SAS officer using comparable technology?
    • Children of Ares, maybe, due to Ares being the god of warfare. The others...not so much.
    • Well, if it was a kid of the Big Three, they could... (a) Vaporise them with lightning (b) Turn them into a fish (c) Send them straight to the Underworld.
    • Also, within the setting of the book the best trained US Marines or SAS officers would probably turn out to be demigods anyway. The idea is that most significant 'mortals' secretly are.
      • That, or roman demigods, or magicians, or a magical something or another. I don't know to what extent all myths are true in this verse, but it seems like most important people are connected to some mythology.
  • So WWII in this verse was fought between the sons of Zeus and Poseidon and the sons of Hades. I can get behind Churchill and Roosevelt being sons of Zeus and Poseidon but what about Stalin? If Hades does indeed resemble "every dictator in history" then wouldn't Stalin be a son of his? And I can understand Hitler and Mussolini being sons of Hades but am I expected to believe that Emperor Hirohito was too? Especially with the concept of Japanese nobility descended from Amaterasu and the Olympians being explicitly described as "gods of the West" it just seems like a big oversight.
    • On the Japanese point maybe they do only have authority over the western world and the east has I don't know Zoastroa or Chinese ancestors or Budha or the God Emporer Of Mankind the story never really mentioned the east. Or maybe the Imperial family are the gods of the east. Stalin could have been mortal I know alot of people who dont count Georgia (The Country) as part of the western world and thus him being a Georgian by birth he wouldnt have been related to a Greek god.
    • I imagine the "every" was hyperbole and most of dictators were sons of Hades. Remember, Percy isn't likely to be great at world history either.
    • Alternatively, some of said dictators could have been the grandchildren of Hades.
    • It should probably be pointed out that the Kane Chronicles establish that Egyptian mythology is just as true as Greco-Roman mythology, so why not Eastern religions? Seems only fair that there'd be an Eastern civilization counterpart to the Greco-Roman gods and their connection to Western civilization.
  • Dionysus' rant about heroes in the third book. It's already been mentioned above, but... Well, isn't Dionysus a halfblood? Even with the handwave, his mother was still a mortal. It's true that most heroes in greek mythology - demigods or not - were idiots, but Dionysus is one too. It really just bugs me.
    • Depends on the myth. There are countless variations of Dionysus' birth from being born from a mortal woman to being born from Zeus' thigh. All myths seem to agree that he was mortal for a time, that he led an army of crazy women on a cross continent orgy of sex and violence before ascending to Olympus.
    • It's also very possible that Dionysus hates halfbloods so much because he was originally supposed to be one. Less idiocy and more hate for an inferior position he is embarrassed to have once been in.
  • Percy's Fatal Flaw is loyalty? I'm sorry, but that's the kind of "flaw" you put down for a job interview. Annabeth overly proud, Thalia is easily tempted with power, the Di Angelo's are prone to malicious grudges and Percy is...too good a friend?
    • To be fair, loyalty can be a flaw if the person lets their devotion to someone make them do bad things (like siding with somebody who's gone evil).
    • No, Percy's flaw is being insanely reckless when it comes to his friends. Yes, it can be a flaw, and if he didn't learn to control it, he'd probably be dead by the end of the book.
    • His flaw is putting the safety of his friends and family over the safety of the world. That's bad.
      • Wrath—all-consuming though justified anger—is a flaw when it's uncontrolled. Loyalty is a flaw when it's blind. Any virtue becomes a flaw is taken too far—love turns to obsession, justice turns to enforcement, kindness turns to subservience, etc. Overcoming one's fatal flaw is more about keeping it from getting to the point that it becomes a weakness. Percy himself seems to have realized it in the last book, as he prays that Kronos won't notice his mother and stepfather, knowing what would happen if he did.
      • From the few hints dropped in Son of Neptune, it seems as if this element may be explored in the third book.
      • Definitely. I think Riordan realized what a Weaksauce Weakness it is, and is now compensating. It is heavily implied that Annabeth will cause major problems in the third book, and Percy will stick by her even if she's dead wrong. It's outright stated that Percy would save a friend rather than the world, and he needs Frank's sense of duty.

  • Percy blowing off Hera at the end of Battle of the Labyrinth. Granted, Hera isn't the cuddliest Olympian but she saved his life and personally helped him on his quest. Percy and Annabeth came off as seriously ungrateful which angered Hera...and why would anyone want to purposefully provoke Hera, Goddess of Disproportionate Retribution?
    • Let's put it this way. If Charles Manson did you a favor back before everyone knew he was a murderer, would you help him out now?
      • If he was a supremely powerful being who everyone I knew thought had the right to do such thing and whom I could do nothing to help or harm at the time, when helping was defined as nodding and truthfully agreeing the favour was helpful and disagreeing would do nothing to change his horrific ways except mark me down as victim? ... Yeah, I probably would. ... Besides, by that logic, they wouldn't have any dealings with Athena or Poseidon, either.
      • He wasn't angry at what Hera did, he was angry at what she didn't do—he didn't like her dismissing Nico. As noted above, Percy's fatal flaw is personal loyalty.

  • If gods don't have DNA, how do their children "inherit" their physical characteristics? It's mentioned Annabeth has her mother's hair, etc.
    • Annabeth's hair is actually a different color than her mother's (Athena's is black and Annabeth's is blonde). But anyway, Athena doesn't give birth conventionally, her children spring out of her head (much like how she was born), so she can probably create them in whatever image they want. As for the others...*shrug*.
    • Well, making a foetus requires some kind of DNA or DNA-substitute in order to create cells.

  • So, that Rachel Elizabeth Dare's name spells out "RED" isn't actually important?
    • The color symbolizes sacrifice. DUH.
      • Also, warning (danger), passion (love interest), fire (Apollo), beauty (love interest), anger (unhappy with her life).
    • I took it as a meaningless nod to her hair color.
    • This troper read it as R.E. Dare- "Are we there". Appropriate, since she was their guide through the Labyrinth.
    • In the next series, the villains hire an elite team of mercenaries known as "BLU" to hunt her down.
  • Why are Demeter and her halfblood kids portrayed as weaker/ lamer than the others? sure, you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of myths about her, and she's not as well loved, but still, she's not some little pansy. Doesn't anyone remember that she was willing to kill every mortal thing- animals, plants, men, women, children, all of it- because her daughter was missing? That is way more badass than turning someone into a spider. And then there's the guy who cut down her favorite tree. What does she do to him? she sics Hunger on him so that he EATS HIMSELF. How on earth is that not badass? She's insanely powerful, not a pushover that can't fight. She could just sic hunger on the enemy demigods until they died, and the titans would have had no army.
    • She WAS beloved in her day. She's the goddess of the harvest, that's one of the less glamorous but most important positions in the pantheon. I don't know about why she was portrayed that way, but as for the half bloods it's because farming powers aren't combat oriented. That said, any strategist can tell you about the importance of logistics and supplies.
      • Sorry- I meant if you ask a kid( or anyone really) " Who's your favorite Greek God or Goddess" you won't get many saying " Demeter". And the books don't really help- It's been a while since I read them, but the only named child of Demeter that I recall is mentioned at the end of Lost Hero, having gotten her nose stolen by one of the other campers. They never play any sort of role in the prophecies or even give aid to the heroes that get to go one quests. And their powers could be combat oriented- more so than Aphrodite's, and her kids get cool stuff and names! It's not like Demeter's not one of the major goddesses- but I can't recall a single scene where Demeter does anything plot related at all. she's just a vote on the council, that's all, and well, it bugs me.
    • (raises hand) HERE! I'm a complete Demeter fan :-) You haven't read your Pratchett, right? Godly power is proportional to the number of followers. And Demeter never participated in all the macho shit Zeus et al were dealing. She's the Bona Dea, the one goddess who is benign to mankind. Oh, Riordan could have ended the series very quick by Kronos attempting to do, eh, bad things to Persephone...and instantly Demeter would have wiped the floor of Tartaros with him. But that's a Parallel Universe book :-) Lest not forget the Crowning Moment of Funny with the Demeter/Persephone/Hades "We're one Dysfunctional Family" scene in the last book which had me in stitches. No, good sir, given that Demeter usually doesn't get ANY credits in Greek-myth based books, I didn't found her undermentioned.
  • You had to give him black hair and green eyes, didn't you, Rick Riordan? You had to give him black hair and green eyes and a more-or-less ordinary mother and a superpowered father and an inseparable female brainiac friend. There are readers smart enough not to go "OMG U RIPPED OFF HARRYPOTTER O NOES!" There are readers who... are not.
    • Er...Harry Potter's mother was a very powerful witch. And where does it say what colour his hair and eyes are?
    • Yes, let's blame the author for the stupidity of the readers when he's not encouraging it.
    • Actually, I see your point. Black hair and green eyes isn't a particularly common combination in real life. I don't think Riordan stole from Harry Potter since...you know, he finished writing the manuscript in 1994 and HP 1 came out in '97. But it might've been a smart marketing move to change the freaking hair/eyes combo for this very reason.
      • Hold on I know plenty of people who have this combo of eye and hair color. PLUS SEA green eyes and green eyes are actually a big difference I always though of Hp's eyes as being http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_of_green#Mantis while Percy would have something more like teal or Persian green.Also two people can have the same hair and eye color and still look nothing alike.
    • Whether intentional or not there are a lot of similarities between first books of HP and Percy Jackson. However, the following books stand alone. So wait, he has a brainy female friend (Annabeth->Hermione), a friend who is knowledgeable about the new 'magical' world (Grover->Ron). He suspects a particular character of wrongdoing, but they are actually not responsible (Hades->Snape), while a character that is helping the character (Ares->Quirrell) who is actually a puppet of the real big bad who people are nervous about naming and who they think is long dead/out of action forever (Voldemort->Cronos). While there is a secret magical place that teaches you to use your 'magic' (Camp Half-Blood->Hogwarts) where you see your school antagonist (Clarisse->Malfoy) who lives with some apparent 'bad apples' (Ares House->Slytherin). And all the while you are special because of something that was essentially out of your control (Percy[being the son of Poseidon]->Harry[taking out Voldemort when he was a baby]). The teacher in charge has taken a particular interest in the main character and appears to be respected by the people who he trains (Chiron->Dumbledore). All the while normal people have no idea what is going on and don't think that their particular world ever really existed despite legends of their that say there was. That being said, there are still enough differences to make it its own story, the similarities are there when comparing the first books of the series and it is distracting.
      • Not to mention a pair of trouble making twins (Stoll Brothers->Weasley Twins).
      • Also a language that the protagonist understands inexplicably (Ancient Greek->Parseltongue)
    • Percy is based off of Rick Riordan's son, so his appearance is most likely based on him.
  • Jason's sword/spear is made of Imperial gold. You know, the same metal that's only used for jewellery and ornamentation because it bends under stress? How can it be any use in combat?
    • Its not the same metal. The imperial gold used in the books is a magical metal. Bronze is one of the weakest metals, but the magical kind in the books can cut through steel.
  • How are the gods any better than the Titans? Yeah, I know, the Titans want to blow up the world and force humanity back into "darkness" (whatever that is,) want to end civilization as we know it, et cetera, et cetera. But all the gods do is sit back, be jerkasses, make unbreakable prophecies that make humans miserable and in general patronize and overcontrol everybody. There is no free choice in Percy's world because the gods control everything. Is that really a good message to send to kids and teens - that there's no point taking responsibility for your own life because you've got one fate that's going to come to be anyway, just because some jerky gods want to control your life? What. I wouldn't want either existence, personally - the Titans in control or the gods in control, I would have fled to a safe corner of the multiverse where I can take charge of my own life, thank you. You know what would have been an epic ending? Percy defying both the gods ''and'' the Titans.
    • So, I have only read one book in the series so... the Titans want to force humanity back into "darkness"? Where does Prometheus stand about this?
      • The Titans are worse because the implication is most of them want to return mankind back to the stone age (or at least an age of severe ignorance). The Titans are basically always Chaotic Evil beings who view mortals as sport. The gods are portrayed as a bit better because they allow mankind to advance and while being major jerks and a-holes a lot of the time they also tend to have their kinder sides as well. They or their demigod children are responsible for many of the world's problems, but both parties are also responsible for a lot of the good as well.
      • And you are wrong with some of your arguments. The gods do not control everything its the Fates whom ultimately do. Zeus's attempt to avert the prophecy worked to bring it true. Hermes stated he knew Luke's fate, but telling him would have somehow made things worse. Its implied that on some level it is possible to defy fate or at least certain key moments are not set in stone. Luke chose to sacrifice himself to stop Kronos. As for the gods, the implication is they do not control mortals nearly as much as you imply. Apollo stated one of Zeus's rules limits how much the gods can interfere in mortal affairs. The gods seem more or less to follow the trends of human civilization and control the big picture, but do not micromanage leaving many things up to mortals. Its their children who typically use their powers to change the mortal world and not the gods.
      • I don't know which book you have read, but in "The Last Olympian" Prometheus sides with the Titans. Its implied that much of his foreknowledge comes from being able to calculate the most probable outcome of events. He sides with the Titans because he believed the Olympian side did not have the strength to win just has he calculated the Titans did not have the strength to win in the first war. He cites how the Olympians are just as petty as the Titans due to Hermes knowing of Luke's future, but doing nothing to prevent it. He claims to have a revelation that would advance mankind as far as fire as brought humanity this far, but Zeus would never allow humans to grow that powerful. His ultimate side seems to be his own and to a degree humanity. It is implied that one of his reasons for siding with the Titans is his hatred for Zeus due to his punishment involving the eagle and this could be clouding his judgment.
      • Greek gods are indeed total jackasses. That's the point of a Greek god. I have to agree with the OP and say that the best ending would be for Percy to Take a Third Option. I mean, the gods really don't seem to have done much good, in all honesty.
      • The problem with that is that it's implied that the Greek Gods are the pillars on which civilization stands. In the end, having a bunch of jackasses in charge is infinitely better than having nobody in charge because everyone's dead. Ultimately, the Gods leave humanity alone for the most part. Kronos, on the other hand, wants to eat the United Nations.
      • Its also revealed in "The Last Olympians" that the Gods are so tied to the Western Civilization that if they died than civilization will die with it(e.g Demeter dies, than the whole breadbasket Mid-West becomes a barren wasteland, If Hermes Dies, Commerce, Free Trade, communications and the internet will cease to exist, If Zeus dies, electricity will vanished etc). So Percy Jackson really has no choice to side with the gods because every good thing in life is because of them.
      • Hey, what about Pan? He died, and nothing happened!
      • Maybe it's more of a gradual thing. If Demeter died the Midwest wouldn't have turned into a Dust Bowl at the snap of a finger. The area would likely have petered out over several decades or a century. As for Pan, he is the god of wilderness and forests... which are gradually fading anyway. Perhaps that is what killed him in the first place. His death may simply speed up the process.
  • In The Titan's Curse, Dionysus talks about making a mortal woman his immortal wife after her death. Why then, when Maria Di Angelo was killed, did Hades have to "respect the rules of death" and lose her forever? Was it because he already had a wife, like first come, first serve?
    • I think its a combination of his divine role and the reason you stated. As the god of the underworld Hades is in charge of maintaining fairness and the overall afterlife. He can't just change the rules whenever he feels like it. Otherwise, it's a betrayal of his divine duty which is something Hades has shown to take more seriously than Zeus. The other is if he resurrected her Persephone would no doubt take it as some sort of insult and Hades would be pushing things too far.
      • Yeah but what could she do, isn't she just like, the goddess of flowers or something?
      • "Persephone" means "Bringer of Destruction". In a quite a lot of mythos, Persephone, once she has changed from Kore, becomes as much the queen of the underworld as Hades is the king. She's just as powerful as he is, in their realm.
  • Why does everyone treat Luke's death like a huge Heroic Sacrifice when he was going to die anyway? Doesn't going to Elysium beat being burned away as Kronos rises?
  • Okay, so Poseidon wasn't allowed to have children with mortal women. Did he ever, ugh, hear of this little thing called a condom? Or does he have magical sperm with a 100% chance of getting a child?
    • Condoms can break. And Poseidon could've easily been in an arrogant mood and just not cared for unreliable man-made protection.
    • Not to mention we don't exactly know what is being exchanged when a mortal and god have intercourse (see the discussion about the gene-god issue above), so a condom might not be able to block whatever is happening.
    • In the original myths, it is explicitly stated (by Poseidon, to his mortal one-night stand of ...questionable consent...) that "The embrance of a god is never barren." I don't think any form of contraceptive would work.
  • Am I missing something, or is Percy Annabeth's uncle? Cause that's only slightly disturbing.
    • Uncle once removed, which is probably more than enough gap for most mortal relationships, except for the fact that most uncles once removed would be significantly older than their niece. Also, see above for debate about gods not having genes.
      • No. In order to be Annabeth's Uncle, he would have to be a sibling of her parent. Since Athena is Zeus's offspring, Not Poseidon's, this makes Percy and Annabeth second cousins.

  • The Curse of Achilles. How specific is it about choosing places on your body to make weak? Do you have to have it on the outside of your body? For example could I choose to make my stomach my only weak point? Or my heart? Surely that would make you basically invincible except to poison or heart failure. Or why not your spleen or something very small and totally random. Sure maybe Percy just wouldn't be the type to think about those sorts of things but would it be theoretically possible. Also, even if it has to be something on the outside of your body, why not an eyeball, so if anything is about to hit you you can just close your invincible eyelid and no harm will come to you.
    • If it was his eye he would die the second an invincible eyelash got stuck in his eye. Achilles died of essentially a tiny scratch from what I recall.
    • What if he gets a vat of acid to his face? or an arrow through the eye? jeez, i think something at a high speed would penetrate his eyelid. I forgot what the concept is called, if you try and keep it a secret, the person you're keeping it from will find out (memory sucks sorry). And Organs fail, Percy would be no exception.
      • No, it wouldn't pierce his eyelid if it wasn't the vincible part. "Invincible, anyone?"
    • It's the place from which Percy imagined a cord coming, connecting him back to the people he loved, so it would probably take a pretty good imagination to make it come from a minor internal organ, especially whilst standing in the Styxx.

  • In The Lightning Thief,before Percy's godly parent is known,Grover states that he could be a son of Nemesis. Nemesis is a female god,and Percy already has a mom. What?
    • If Gods can take pretty much ANY form (which they do, e.g. Zeus as a horse, bull, swan, golden light, a storm, etc.), do you think that gods can't change gender? In fact, there was even an intersexed god/dess named Hermaphroditus, the child of both Hermes and Aphrodite. So... Yeah.
    • In the original myths, Zeus seduced Callisto by taking the form of Artemis and impregnated her. It's up to version and interpretation whether he changed back to his own form for the impregnating part, but... y'know, we can safely assume gods can do whatever they want. Also in the original, Hera had children on her own, and in the series, Athena has children with mortal men while remaining a virgin.
    • Grover's diction is that Percy could be the son of a minor god, like Nemesis. It was used for comparison (albeit phrased rather badly).
  • Why is Zeus such an idiot? Seriously, I know he is supposed to have deep character flaws, but for the ruler of the world he comes across as a complete moron. Every time he is mentioned or shows up it only makes a situation worse, screwed up, or acted like a complete jerk (putting it very nicely). If he cannot bully his way out of a problem or use a thunderbolt to solve it he comes across as useless. Under his rule in recent times we have had two near civil wars in the first book of each series (the first being his fault), two crisis he has ignored when they are obvious allowing them to grow in strength (both threats), and such dislike of his rule that he basically gave both Kronos an army with the demigods and minor gods. All in all he comes across as something worse than a massive jerk being paranoid gullible, incredible arrogant even for gods, and all around unlikable. Add on his general disregard for others (including wanting to put off saving his own wive) he insipirs little to no loyalty in anyone except his wife and perhaps Athena. About the only purpose he serves is to keep the gods somewhat under control with a WMD and one wonders what that says about the Olympians as a whole. Is this really the only way to portray him? Wouldn't it be easier to destroy Olympus by turning them against each other? It comes across as fairly easy thing to do.
    • "Wouldn't it be easier to destroy Olympus by turning them against each other?" This is EXACTLY what happens in the first book. It doesn't take because Percy, Annabeth, and Grover succeed in their quest and stop it.
  • How does Prometheus, who can see the future, pick the wrong side? He said he looked into the future, and Olympus lost. Either he's really bad at his job, or he's a complete moron.
    • Its implied that much of his foreknowledge comes from being able to calculate the most probable outcome of events. He sides with the Titans because he believed the Olympian side did not have the strength to win just has he calculated the Titans did not have the strength to win in the first war. Remember, at the time Hades was sulking in the underworld with no sign he would change and Poseidon was busy with Oceanus. Even if Kronos had not attacked Olympus it did not look like the gods would stop Typhon in time. The bitterness between Zeus and his brother and their own selfishness and pride is so great it was highly unlikely they would put aside their differences. Zeus almost had a fit when he had to thank them. It is implied that one of his reasons for siding with the Titans is his hatred for Zeus due to his punishment involving the eagle and this could be clouding his judgment. Finally, Prometheus saw one future. Its strongly implied that the future is not entirely set in stone. Percy saw one future where he grows old and dies, but could have changed that by becoming immortal. Prometheus once saw a future where a son of Metis would overthrow Zeus so Zeus took steps to prevent it.
  • Ok, I know that this doesn't really make sense, but- Why couldn't Hera have kids? She's the goddess of marriage, right? So here's a scenario- just hear me out. So there's this mortal couple, right? And they really want kids, but the Wife can't- she doesn't have any eggs.( it happens) and the marriage gets strained, because they both want this so much, but can't afford to adopt. so Hera shows up, offers her Goddess/divine Egg, and they do a type of surrogate mother thing- Hera's egg in the mortal lady's womb. Presto, one half-blood of Hera, no cheating AND a saved marriage, which is Hera's domain anyway, so it's not like Zeus could get really mad at her, she was faithful and she was using her powers to do her job.
    • I seriously doubt Hera would lower herself in that way. It would be simpler for Hera just to magically fix whatever is preventing the woman from having children. It is questionable if gods even reproduce the same way as humans. They are portrayed more as beings of pure magic then flesh and blood. In Hera's mind that may very well be considered cheating especially if she did it without Zeus's permission. And Zeus would throw a fit since Hera could have fixed it the way I mentioned. He also is not known for being the understanding or reasonable type. Sorry, but it doesn't work.
      • In the original myths, Hera was always mad at Zeus for cheating on her all the time, so if she cheated she'd become a hypocrite.
      • Helping individuals doesn't seem to be the gods' style anyway, unless said individuals are actually important. If Hera is the goddess of childbirth, then I assume it's meant in the general sense, so MOST women get to have children or something.
      • Hera's way of thinking is just a tiny little bit old fashioned, so she'd probably consider the children bastards if the parents aren't married, sex or no sex.
      • Also, she seems to mostly want children so she can bring them up. Having someone else raise them would defeat the point.

  • The Olympians claim that they are more or less embodiments of Western Civilization and without them it would collapse into chaos. Do you think this is true? The Egyptian gods from the Kane Chronicles are supposedly the first gods of the west. They were imprisoned after Egypt was conquered by the Romans with no known ill effects. Pan, the god of the wild, died and entrusted mortals with protecting the wild instead of him. So would Western Civilization fall without the Olympians? Or is it they are just the upholders of the current order? Without them another set of gods like the Titans may replace them and reorder the world.
    • Uh, how would Egypt be the West? They're in the Middle East.
    • The thing is, Western Civilization is the current order. Yes, humanity and society could endure past the fall of the Olympians. But whoever replaces the Olympians may not be so disposed to liking humans; for instance, the Titans pretty much treat mortals as trash. I doubt they'd let civilization survive once they took power.
      • This other troper doesn't quite understand how the order could be tied to the gods, though. Prometheus, a titan, was the one who created humanity and gave us fire or enlightenment or whatever in the original myths, which seriously pissed off Zeus.
      • Big gaps between the earliest controlled fire and the earliest civilization. Somewhere between 60, 000 years and 260, 000 years, to be specific. Also, it wasn't the giving people fire that pissed off Zeus, it was the fact that he stole it from the gods.
    • One has to guess that even if civilization survived without the Olympians, they probably wouldn't be going around telling people that. Think of them like politicians. "If I'm not re-elected president, the world will end." Just because someone says something doesn't mean its true, especially if they are egotistical maniacs or people who worship them.
    • One must realize that there are many type of Western Civilizations, Egypt was the First Western Civilization, but it collapse because Isis banish Ra in The Kane Chronicles. After that The Greek Gods took over and created a new one with Greek and Rome.if the Greek Gods die than odds are U.S and every nation that has ever been influence by Greek or Roman culture(e.g U.K, France, and every country that has democratic government or has been part of the Roman Empire), will collapse into chaos, allowing any new diety to take their place and create a new "western civilization" albeit in their own image. This is probably what the Titans were planning to do.
  • Thalia's age. If she was 12 when Annabeth was 7, how come she's only 15 in The Titan's Curse, when Percy and Annabeth are 14? Did being turned into a tree slow the aging process on her?
    • Yes.
      • It was explicitly stated by Apollo, who managed to calculate her exact age. She didn't know how old she was until he told her.
  • In The Titan's Curse, Zoe says that nymphs can become Hunters of Artemis. The problem is that a nymph can't go too far away from her tree/river/whatever, and the Hunters are always traveling. When a nymph becomes a Hunter of Artemis, what happens to her tree/river? Is it not tied to her life force anymore?
    • We just don't know. True to the original myths, the gods have all kinds of mysterious and not at all defined powers, so maybe Artemis can "untie" them. The author probably didn't think of it when he mentioned nymphs offhand, though.
    • In the original mythology, Artemis was always attended by a group of nymphs who were originally, I believe, either ocean or river spirits. When they joined her, in a way she became their tether/life force. So yes, the ability for a nymph to leave their original tree/river/etc once they swear themselves to Artemis is just part of the Hunter blessing. Eternal youth, magical bow, increased strength and stamina, and for nymphs being untethered from their focus.
  • The children in a few of the cabins were mentioned to look alike, so why doesn't anyone seem to pay attention to appearance when trying to find out who the kid's parent is? On a related note, why do some gods have children who all look like them, and others resemble their human parents instead? How does that work, exactly - if Sally was Chinese, would Percy have looked half-Chinese or something?
    • On the first note (why do they not pay attention to appearance?)... because genetics are weird? Even if we disregard the "God's don't have genes" thing (see further up the page), there's still the fact that just because you look lime somebody does not mean you are related. For instance, most of Athena's children have grey eyes. Does that mean every demi-god with grey eyes is a child of Athena? No. Of course not. A demi-god could, for example, be the child of Hermes and a woman with grey eyes, inheriting the mortal mother's eye color. Or it could be an eye color shared with another God (Zeus also has grey eyes). Add in the fact that the gods can change shape to look like pretty much whatever they want and appearance would, in fact, be an incredibly poor way to try and label a demi-god's godly parent.
    • On the second question (why do some gods have children who look like them and some don't?)... the same reason some humans have children who look like them and some don't. Genetics are tricky. You inherit half of your genetic make up from mom and half from dad. But that doesn't mean you will look like a perfect combo of mom and dad, because some genes are dominant and some are recessive. For example, in real life, if your mother is dark skinned with dark hair and dark brown eyes, and your father is light skinned with green eyes and red hair, you will most likely end up looking very similar to your mother and not too similar to your dad. Likewise, in P Jat O, sometimes the kids look more like their godly parent, sometimes they look more like the mortal one. As to the "if Sally was half Chinese" question... like any other couple, if Sally was Asian and had Percy with Poseidon, Percy would most likely take some traits from her and some from his father, but it would depend on which genes were dominant. So he could end up looking pretty much 100% Asian, or he could end up looking 100% Caucasian. Most likely he would be somewhere in the middle. But it would depend on the genes. And of course, none of this is taking into account the "godly shape shifting", "lack of real genes" and "possible weird ways of reproducing" that have all been discussed further up this page.
  • The prophecy from the first book isn't complete. You shall go west and face the god who has turned - Ares.
You shall find what was stolen and see it safely returned. - Done that. You shall be betrayed by one who calls you a friend. - Luke. And you shall fail to save what matters most, in the end. - This line of the prophecy isn't fulfilled. He saved his mother, so it can't be her - so if not his mother, and not the bolt, then what?
  • It WAS his mother, and was referring to how she had to 'save' herself from Gabe. Or, it could have been how she was stuck in Hades. when Percy goes there, he wasn't able to save her. (how do I add spoiler tags?) Either way, it was talking about how Percy wasn't the one that saved her.

  • Who/What held up the sky before the Olympians decided to punish Atlas with it?
    • The story I've heard is that there was a pillar holding up the sky, and that the first war between the Titans and gods cracked it.
    • In the one I saw, there wasn't any sky before that.

  • Unlike the original Greek Mythology in the PJO series there is a large number of demigods who are the children of goddesses rather then gods. Alright fair enough times change and the gods change values with it. Except, how is that possible? Gods can sire several children at a time but goddesses can only carry one at a time which would mean the demigods of gods would outnumber that of godessess signifigantly. For that matter wouldn't the other gods note when a godesses is pregnent since she can't hide like the mortal consort of a god can. You would expect that to be a kind of big deal what with Aphrodite being married to Hephaestaus and all (and Hephaestus is not the understanding type). I can forgive Athena because of the whole "brain child" thing but that still dosen't explain Demeter or Aphrodite.
    • Well, if we follow human biology (which is entirely optional), they could still have about one child a year, which is a whole lot of children. Aphrodite could be explained - the cheating part is a given since she's been doing it forever (I doubt Hephaestos has been trying to get her into a trap with every lover), and Percy pretty much described her as all of his celebrity crushed pulled together, so who knows if she even appears as herself. Also, Demeter had lovers in the myths, but I don't recall her ever getting married. Sure Hera would still call her children bastards, but she's not cheating on anyone.
    • You're asumming they follow human biology. Goddesses can appear in multiple places at once in one form or another. I doubt pregnancy works the same way for them.
    • It's established in The Lost Hero that Gods can be in as many places as they want at a time. So, say, Aphrodite could theoretically simultaneously be in Seattle, Houston and Boston having three different kids with three different mortals all at once.

  • In the first book, Zeus says he will let Percy live so long as he doesn't presume to fly again. But in the second and third books, he flies on horseback, and in the fourth, he flies using one of Daedalus's machines. So why is he still alive?
    • It's flat out said that Pegasi are fair game. Percy's dad made horses, but Zeus is lord of the sky. It's neutral. As for Daedalus, I honestly don't remember that happening at all.
    • Also, Zeus tends to be full of hot air. Sure, he will bluster around to ease he wounded pride, but deep down he knows that if he kill Percy Poseidon will hold Zeus accountable. Given Zeus himself has time and again broken the oath making him a hypocrite and knows Percy does not deserve to die it would only make him look bad if he killed Percy. Afterall, he let his own children live.
    • Percy is also concerned about this when he uses Daedalus' wings. The trick there was that they didn't go all that high, thus not attracting notice.
  • Okay, I suppose the answer is obvious in terms of narrative, but I kinda want an in-universe explanation for the fact that in all the years since the ancient Greek myths were told, the gods didn't get any more children with each other.
    • With Zeus and Hera it may be they haven't touched each other or considering how Hephaestus and Ares turned out they did not want anymore. The rest could just be birth control. Why would Poseidon want a hundred immortal kids running around. The ones he has already create enough of a headache and would either be rivals for Triton, potential to overthrow him, or just more than he needs or wants to have to look after. It may also be that if each god fulfills a universal role no more are needed because all of the roles are currently occupied.
    • It's simple. Somewhere on down the line, the Greeks got conquered (was it by the Romans? My history is fuzzy), so nobody made any new Greek myths, so there were no more stories about these gods having babies with each other. The gods are tied to society and culture. Since there were no stories about gods having babies with each other, the gods no longer had babies with each other. Since all (most?) mortals no longer believe in/worship the Greek gods, they are essentially sterile.
  • Anyone here just find the whole series NOT FOR KIDS? Anyone who knows Greek mythology knows that there are a hundred things that aren't kid friendly. There's incest, rapes, and the fact that most demigods are born out of one night stands from a god to a mortal. Is it just me or does anyone else think that Riordan is sugarcoating Greek mythology to make it look like it's perfectly kid friendly?
    • I was in sixth grade when we learned about Greek Mythology in school and that is the bottom age range these books would be aimed at. I fail to see the problem.
    • Riodan is glossing over or outright omitting the worst aspects. To have any respect for many of the gods, especially Zeus, you have to do that.
    • Besides, it's certainly not like he's the first to try introducing Greek mythology to a young audience.
  • This troper got the weird feeling that the books are very ethnocentric upon rereading them recently. So, the Greek gods are responsible for Western civilization. That's great. However, the gods and the books themselves seem to utterly disregard other civilizations that were as good or possibly even better than the Western. The Middle East, China, Japan, the Americas—all of these places had empires and civilizations that did great things, yet the books seem to just forget about them. It's like the Greeks are taking credit for all the things that everybody has done and then saying they are Western inventions.
    • Don't be offended; it's just part of being loyal to the genre. The gods are arrogant; yes, they are taking credit for everything significant that's ever happened. It's not meant to be subtle.
      • Not to mention the fact that every mythology has a their own "Domain" which they have power over. Greek Gods have control over most of U.S.A, however its reveal in "The Son of Neptune" that in Alaska and Canadian Regions are "Beyond" their power. So its possible that China, Middle East, and Japan, as well as other countries have their own Gods/Dieties, but they can only have influence over their own civilization, and are powerless outside of it.
      • Also worth noting, the Kane Chronicles and the upcoming Norse series imply that All Myths Are True, and all of those civilizations had their own gods which are probably still around today.
    • Nobody's forgetting about anything, it's just that the books focus on Greek Mythology because it's set IN THE WORLD OF (or at least the future of) Greek Mythology. Also, everything that has been mentioned in the books as being the result of Greek Mythology is either American or British. How is that taking credit for Chinese, Japanese, or Middle Eastern inventions? Answer: it isn't. It'd be way more ethnocentric to shoehorn in mentions of every culture that ever existed while still utilizing America as the exclusive home of the gods.
  • Is anybody else bothered by the idea that all (or almost all) highly significant humans were demigods?
    • This troper got the sense that it was just Riordan's way of incorporating the world of Percy Jackson into the real world. Yes, it does seem to imply that only demigods can accomplish great things, but I don't think that was the vibe Riordan was going for.
      • Olympians also tend to be so arrogant that they claim everything important happened to them. So not all of these may be true.
  • Here's one that slips into Fridge Horror territory. In Sea of Monsters, Percy mentions that there are two Stoll brothers, both sons of Hermes, right? Then, he says that they're not twins. Does this mean that Hermes left so much celestial spunk in their mother that she had another child, or did Hermes come back for seconds?
    • More than likely Hermes just visited the mother twice. Nothing I recall has been stated that says this never happened. Thalia and Jason are the first case of a mortal attracting both the Roman and Greek aspects. Nothing has been said about the Greek aspect coming back twice.
    • Remember Bianca and Nico had the same mother, but were a few years apart. Obviously, a god sleeping with the same mortal twice isn't a big deal.
    • The first time the Stolls are introduced it's mentioned that they aren't full brothers. Just look and act enough alike that they are called twins.
      • Yes, they're brothers. They have the same surname. In Sea of Monsters, Percy only says they aren't twins, as the OP stated.
  • Where in the name of Zeus are the Titanesses in all of this? They aren't mentioned even once. Did they just lose their immortality and fade out of existence like Briares's brothers?
    • Odds are they they still exist but aren't incorporated in the story as the books are focus mostly on Percy Jackson and the demigods, not the gods and titans themselves. Greek Mythology has hundreds of minor deities and incorporating that into a book would fill more pages than the Library of Congress.
  • Why is Minos one of the judges of the dead? In life he was a cruel and vindictive king and that has followed him in death. I know he is a son of Zeus, taught law by Zeus, and later made a judge by Zeus, but isn't this extreme nepotism? In Percy Jackson, Zeus has a long history of making poor decisions even when the right one is obvious. In the books he tries to manipulate Nico and wrongfully condemn Daedalus. The ancient Greeks had to try and rationalize it by saying their were to Minoses. The morally just one and another who was responsible for the Minotaur and Daedalus' suffering. So why is Minos a king? Should all the souls he judge be retried to make sure he did not let his vindictive nature get in the way and his judgements were just?
    • Cause he is in Greek Mythology, and in Greek Mythology the strongest theme is "life's not fair" and in many cases "The Afterlife is not fair" after all the stories are filled with heroes who are really jerks, who beat up innocent people and steal things from there rightful owner receiving absolutely no comeuppance for doing these things. Or in the case of someone getting punished, its always disproportionate, if you spotted Artemis bathing, not in her home, simply in a forest, you'd get turned into a stag and she'd hunt you like an animal. All in all, in Greek myths nothing's fair.
      • I would say that is a tad simplistic. It is true many heroes were jerks, but often they were at some point punished for their crimes like Jason and Theseus. Any they often did good thinks like killing monsters. In the Artemis case it is not so much that they accidentally glanced but that they decided to continue to stare that they were punished At least according to some versions.
      • Life is fair on greek mythology. It's just that their concept of fairness was very weird for our standards.
    • You just answered your own question. Nepotism and poor decision-making skills on the part of the Gods.
  • The Hunters of Artemis....they are said to swear off love and all that, which is very much implied in myth to stay virgins. The question I have to ask is, what happens if hunters are attracted to their fellow hunters?
    • Presumably depends on how Artemis defines "virgin". That they're only asked to avoid "the company of men" is promising, but the "company" bit being a euphemism might imply the extent of the statement is expected to be understood.
  • The most obvious headscratcher of all is...Luke and Annabeth!!! Ok, so Annabeth obviously had a crush on Luke for long time; it's fairly common for kids to have things for older cool teens. And for most of the series, Luke seemed to love her in a little sister kind of way (he says so himself in the first book). But what is NOT ok is Luke actually being romantically interested in her too. That's verging too close to statutory rape for comfort; Luke is 23 and Annbeth isn't even 16 yet, people. Plus it's just...so weird! Luke practically raised her, for crying out loud! Wife Husbandry anyone? Besides, why would a 23 year old like a high schooler? Come on, they aren't even on the same playing field emotionally or mentally. Sure, seven years isn't a big deal when it's between two adults...but at this point in their lives, that makes Luke a pedophile. I for one firmly believe that Luke asking if Annabeth loved him was a desperate attempt to just see if anyone even cared remotely about him. But the romance route between a kid and an adult (especially when its portrayed as totally NORMAL and not creepy) is too much. It would NEVER happen! But, disturbingly enough, Riordan implies through Percy otherwise...
    • Well, Percy sees Luke as a rival for Annabeth's affections. And Percy seems to have always felt he has all the family he needs in his mother, so he'd be a lot more likely to see a hunger for connection as romantic.
  • For the movie: assuming they continue adapting the books, how are they going to handle Nico and Bianca di Angelo? Y'know, since they made Hades into a Satan analogue?
    • This is only compounded in Sea of Monsters. Several Half-bloods switch sides earlier than in the books and Kronos repays them by trying to eat them.

  • Dionysus - What did he do to get banished from Olympus? I know the official reason is he chased on off limits nymph, but a hundred year banishment to Camp Halfblood seems kind of harsh considering other Olympians have performed worse actions and gotten off with lighter punishments. Do you think it was merely the latest in a long line of offenses that finally pushed Zeus too far?
    • Could be that yes, he pushed Zeus too far; doesn’t sound unlikely, since Dionysus seems to be one of the most reckless gods in terms of behavior. But reason for punishment aside, what is a century for a god who’s been around for hundreds of years? It probably sucks for one of the most hedonist gods to spend time with a bunch of kids (including his own children) in a camp, but it sounds quite like a light punishment in a god’s eyes.

  • Paraphrasing Cinema Sins video about the movie, regarding to Sally's marriage with Gabe: "(...) Couldn't have been, like, almost any other tactic to disguise de smell of his (Percy's) blood other than marrying a smelly, abusive asshole? Aren't there some nice guys out there who just happen to smell bad, too?"
    • Probably, but keep in mind that Percy was being regularly attacked by monsters that could easily have killed him. She probably felt that she couldn't afford to wait until she found another suitable man.

  • Percy states that his family is so poor that renting a movie and getting Burger King is a treat that they can rarely afford. There is nothing to really support this though in their lifestyle. Percy has gone to private school since at least sixth grade, and is implied to have gone since first grade. That isn't cheap. Percy has enough pocket change at twelve years old to take a taxi home from the Port Authority, not the cheaper bus or subway. Keep in mind that no business would hire him at that age for a regular job, most of the work he would have gotten at this point would have been small jobs for neighbors, which he wouldn't have been able to get in five/six months because of the boarding school he had been at. Though there was no evidence that Camp Half-Blood was picking him up for the summer, there was no hint that Sally was figuring out creative, low cost ways of getting Percy to camp. Sally, despite living in Manhattan, could afford and had a car that worked well enough to drive Percy to Maine, and could take time off from work to do so. The drive from Manhattan to even southern Maine is about five hours even in the best of traffic conditions. There is also no suggestion that at any time in the Jackson household that there was anything less than plenty for everyone to eat. If they're so poor, how can they afford all this?
    • Possible financial backing from Poseidon that was kept secret from Percy? And Percy being Percy might have not noticed some other things that should not be affordable in his family?

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