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Headscratchers: Kingdom Hearts I
  • So...the crown symbol. I get the key motifs, and the hearts, and everything else. But what about the crowns? Is there ANY plot relevance to the crown symbol? If there is, I missed it. It's very prominent, but it's just...there.
    • Seriously? Come on, it's Kingdom Hearts. Ninenty percent of the characters are Disney, whose most famous trademark/logo is Cinderella's castle. In the game there is the presence of multiple worlds- or kingdoms, which, last time I checked, generally require a monarch. Who wears a crown. Duh.
  • I've never played this before, and I asked some friends of mine who did about it, and, I have to ask, do the later games really eschew the Disney elements to the point that they're just Final Fantasy with Mickey Mouse shoehorned in? That's what they said happened, and it kinda tarnishes the novel idea of a Disney/FF crossover if one overtakes the other.
    • That is the main reason this troper has avoided the games like the plague.
    • On a related note, I asked and they said none of the characters from the games before Final Fantasy VII show up. Why?
    • Your friends are wrong; Setzer shows up in KHII. The reason more pre-VII characters don't show up is that the director (who did the character designs for VII and VIII) isn't as comfortable with including characters that he didn't design, as I understand it.
      • He didn't design the Disney characters, though. >__>
      • I meant Final Fantasy characters he didn't design.
  • Keyblade. That name is so uninspired. When I first saw a quick preview of Kingdom Hearts in a magazine I thought, "Hey that kid's weapon looks like a key," and it took me literally seconds to come up with the name Keyblade. This is a company that routinely comes up with very cool-sounding names, so it Just Bugs Me that the main weapon name is so boring.
    • It allows for an Incredibly Lame Pun in Birth by Sleep, with the X-Blade (that X is the Greek letter Chi, so it's pronounced "Ky-blade", not "Ecks-blade"). Though I'm sure that Square didn't have that in mind when they made the first game, since BBS had probably not even been conceived yet.
      • It's actually pronounced "Keyblade" still.
    • By naming the base weapon something simple like Keyblade, it gives them the freedom to be more creative with the Keychain names.
      • The Base weapon is called "Kingdom Key." All forms are keyblades.
      • The Kingdom Key has a keychain as much as any other form of the Keyblade, and neither Terra, Ven, nor Aqua start off with a Kingdom Key. There's no reason to think that there's a uniform "base form" of Keyblades as a whole.
      • It's the base form in game mechanics, and Sora's go-to default.
    • Weapon type names are generally pretty uninspired. Broadsword? Claymore?
      • Wait, what? I get broadsword, as it's a broad sword, but claymore? Because it... clays more? It's not a great example of uninspired names.
      • It is if you replace the "c" with a "s".
      • Claidheamh mr translates (colloquially and dysphemically) to BFS.
  • If meddling isn't allowed, why the hell does Mickey send Donald Duck & Goofy? How the hell doesn't anyone from a world where only humans can talk, question the fact that there are suddenly talking animals?
    • Most of the worlds they visit already have strange inhabitants that aren't all humans (for example, Wonderland, Olympus Coliseum, Atlantica, Neverland, etc.). Traverse Town is a world where people from different worlds all show up, so there is a possibility that the population of TT has its fair share of anthropomorphic beings in addition to humans. However, for a world like Deep Jungle, I have no clue why the humans there aren't weirded out by Donald and Goofy.
      • Terk and the other gorillas could talk in Disney's Tarzan movie. Tarzan was just the only one who could understand them.
    • I think that when Donald and Goofy visit a world full of anthropomorphic animals or other strange inhabitants (or a world full of people from different worlds), the citizens of the world see Donald and Goofy as a talking duck and a talking dog, and accept it, as it's normal for them. However, when they visit more realistic worlds without strange animals, like Port Royale, they are seen by the characters from that world as whatever they would accept as normal. Like, Jack Sparrow might look at Goofy and see just a tall, goofy guy with weird teeth. And to him, Donald might be a midget.
      • And apparently, Barbossa saw Pete as a ridiculously overweight man.
      • That doesn't explain why we don't see Donald and Goofy (or Pete) as humans. Sora's not the only one whose appearance changes to adapt to a different environment. In fact, I'm pretty sure Sora would become an anthro of some kind of animal if he were to set foot in the world of Disney's Robin Hood.
      • I don't think that's true. In Kingdom Hearts II, there's a cutscene segment in Agrabah where we see through the eyes of Jasmine. Goofy and Donald clearly appear normal. Yes, I know they have genies and magic carpets. No, that should not logically lead to bipedal dogs and ducks with severely deformed bodies.
      • She is a princess of heart, so she may be able to see past any illusion magic they use though.
      • Being fair though, She was in the first game and was taken to another world. As were the other princesses of Heart.
    • It's been mentioned that King Mickey and Scrooge used to always travel between worlds when possible. I assume that most of the people you meet in the worlds met with either of them or some other Disney Kingdom traveller, so they just know something's up when they see 3 odd people (Well, a weird person and his dog and duck) turn up randomly.
      • Bad writing.
  • If The Heartless are called "heartless" because they don't have hearts, then why does a heart float off into the aether every time one is slain?
    • They steal hearts. Luxord in Kingdom Hearts II says "Whenever a Heartless is slain, it releases a CAPTIVE heart". Sax also says in the same game "Pitiful Heartless, mindlessly collecting hearts". So the hearts that float away aren't the hearts of the Heartless, they're just hearts that that Heartless had collected.
    • Because that's not why they're called "heartless": The Heartless are the missing hearts of the Nobodies, the bodies and souls of people who lost their hearts to darkness. So, in essence, the Heartless and Nobodies are named the opposite of what they really are.
    • Heartless have no bodies; Nobodies are heartless.
    • Blame this all on Gratuitous English. They're called "HEARTLESS" in Japanese, too.
    • RE: "the Heartless and Nobodies are named the opposite of what they really are", notice how many entries on this page are derived from that. Wasn't it absolutely clear that the Heartless were defined as "beings with no hearts" in the first game? Why change it completely just to complicate the plot and confuse the hell out of everyone?
      • Remember: The original concept of Heartless, the darkness in hearts of living beings given shape and form by a "natural" process, corresponds to the "pureblood" heartless such as shadows and darkballs, which don't release hearts when defeated. You're talking about the Emblem (Artificial) heartless who DO release a captive heart when destroyed. Those heartless were created by machines that forcefully reproduced the process of a heart being consumed. A Nobody comes to existence when someone's heart is consumed and creates a pureblood heartless. It is assumed that Artificial/Emblem heartless have nothing to do with this process.
      • I don't think so. Shadow heartless and some other, who are considered "pureblood" DO release hearts, when destroyed. I think, that a heartless is in fact... well... Imagine a berry. The berry itself is the heart and the juice is the darkness inside it. When the berry (heart) gets damaged, the juice (darkness) flows out and covers it. Congratulations, you just turned the berry into a heartless! OK, what I am trying to say, is, that the Heartless ARE materialized darkness and the hearts, they were produced from, are kind of broken, since the darkness completely corrupted them. They can't use them, so they are "heartless".
      • Mmm, Heartlessberry smoothies...
      • Irrelevant, but that comment and the one that spawned it has me rolling on my ass with laughter.
      • As far as I know, the name "Heartless" is more of a metaphor than anything. They have hearts, they just can't really use them. Like, if you called a person heartless, you'd be saying they were cruel, but not actually that they literally had no heart. It's the same with the Heartless. A quote by Luxord mentioned earlier says that when a Heartless is destroyed, it releases a captive heart. The captive heart is the Heartless's original heart. Heartless are simply hearts corrupted by darkness and turned into monsters. When Sora or another Keyblade wielder kills a Heartless, the heart is released from the darkness and goes to Kingdom Hearts. So yes, the Heartless have hearts. Nobodies, on the other hand, are the body and mind that were left behind when the Heartless was created. Does this explain it?
      • ...Can someone in the fandom summarize all this for the newbie here? I'm confused...
      • To Sum Up: In the Kingdom Hearts universe, all living creatures consist of three parts, the physical body, the soul, and the heart (not to be confused with the actual blood-pumping heart). Every heart has within it a small spark of Darkness (supernatural evil) which is what gives that person the capacity to do evil, similar to original sin in Christianity. This spark can be stimulated to grow in a number of ways, including feeling intense negative emotion, using dark magic, having dark magic used on you, and being bitten by a Heartless. When the darkness in a heart grows great enough, the heart detaches from the body and becomes a monster called a Heartless, which is composed of the wrecked heart and a large field of dark energy. The body and soul left behind will then either die or become a different type of monster known as a Nobody. The exact functions of the Heart and Soul are unclear. The heart is known to serve a role in memory and emotion, especially the emotional bonds between individuals. How this interacts with the physical brain's capacity for those functions is unclear. The soul has almost no known defined functions. There are at least two incidents (Xehanort and Sora) where a Heartless displays the full range of Human cognitive functions - what this means is anyone's guess. This is all in my understanding of course.
    • Xehanort's and Sora's Heartless retained full range of human cognitive functions because both willingly became Heartless. Also, I believe the Ansem Reports in the sequel say that the soul serves the purpose of animating the body and giving it life, while the heart is the spiritual center of the person. Someone's soul leaving their body kills them, but somebody's heart leaving them allows them to stay alive... but not quite human.
      • Actually the reason for that control is that they both had 2 hearts inside them when they became Heartless. The heart that was released was the one that belonged to the body, Terra and Sora's hearts in these cases. The Hearts that remained became the Nobodies Xemnas and Roxas, but as they were foreign hearts, they had no memories. Also of note is that all human Nobodies had their hearts taken via keyblade as has been releaved in recent trailers for the upcoming KH game.
      • That's not quite true. I believe the Secret Ansem reports made it clear that those who sacrifice their heart willingly will become a sentient heartless. Axel and Larxene also theorised during CoM that the reason was to do with the strength of their hearts. Besides, Xehanort is clearly the one behind both Ansem and Xemnas in each game. Terra's location is still unknown.
    • I always thought that since the Heartless were hearts, the released hearts were them.
    • Heartless come when a heart is consumed by darkness. They ARE hearts turned into black holes. Hearts can't have hearts.
      • Hearts can't have hearts makes as mush sense as one could hope for, but still, why are the nobodies called nobodies when they are the body that is left after a 'somebody' losses there heart?
      • Non-Indicative Name covers that statement. As for why such would be their given name, I would blame Nomuya's unpredictable mind for coming up with that idea.
      • Wait, I think I got it! Heartless are the creatures that have no hearts and only become solid when they capture a heart and Nobodies are the creatures that have no body and only become solid when someone losses there body.
      • No, I'm pretty sure that switching Heartless' and Nobodies' names around would be dumb.
      • You guys aren't looking at this from the right perspective. It's not "no body" it's "nobody". No individual, no self. Beings with no emotion or personality are defined and named as those who have no identity. You could just as easily call them no-ones or nones, but that would be dumb.
      • I think I can provide the explanations behind their namings in two sentences.
    You're Heartless!
    There's Nobody in the room.
    • Adding to the madcap. The term "Heartless" was given for the creature's mentality. They act like animals, there's no emotion in a Heartless, just raw instinct. Steal hearts, and self defense. That's it. That's why Xehanort called them Heartless, they acted as if they had no hearts, no feelings, like various animals. Think of them as only having the Reptile Brain. Base survival instincts. I hope that helps. Nobodies again relate to the mentioned above, as no individual.
  • In Kingdom Hearts 1, in Agrabah, Aladdin could just wish the Heartless away and make everything go back to normal, but he uses the wish to free Genie. But why didn't he just hand the lamp to Sora, let him wish them away, plus wish for two more things he wanted (that boat to get finished, for example), then just take it back and set Genie free? It can be explained away in the movie by him not really having anyone to trust with it, but Sora had just easily proved himself a trustworthy ally.
    • Same reason Aladdin doesn't hand the lamp over to Jasmine or the Sultan at the end of the movie: it's the principle of the thing. Aladdin's made such a big deal about how Genie has become his best friend and he shouldn't be forced to grant any more wishes, he's finally on his last wish, and suddenly Genie has to dole out three (or six, or nine) more wishes before he can be freed — kind of a dick move on Aladdin's part. It may not be the most practical thing to do, but it's certainly the right thing.
    • In-Game Reason: It actually wouldn't do much good. Genie's power does have its limits, so we have no idea if he could actually destroy all of the Heartless. Eventually, more of them would probably just appear anyway. Not to mention the fact that the Disney villains are still out there and know about Heartless and other worlds, and getting to the sentient ones like "Ansem" might fall under the no-killing rule. (He may not be human, be he's just as smart as one, and Jafar couldn't kill Iago in the second movie.) There are also issues of where Riku and Kairi are, not to mention the fact that even if Sora doesn't know about them at the time, Organization XIII is still out there, and nobody's safe. Also, it may be a violation of the no meddling with other worlds rule.
    • Out of Game Reason: From a story standpoint, it would be a really bad idea for any Disney characters not created by Walt himself to be monumentally important to the plot, because it would make everything even more complicated than it already is. All of the Disney characters without direct ties to the Mickey Mouse franchise are there to serve as minor characters in the universe, and guest-stars in their individual levels. Summons are fine, since they're just a gameplay element, and the only effect we see them having on the story is certain characters being familiar with Sora despite never going to their worlds (like Simba and Mushu). It would be like Tarzan becoming a permanent companion throughout the worlds. Having Genie magically fix everything wouldn't just be a boring way to end the story, but it would ruin the effect of limiting the involvement of the Disney movie characters in the plot, which works very well to establish the game as its own entity and not some random cash-grab with a bunch of popular cartoon characters in it.
    • Also begs the question why Jafar didn't use Genie to wish for control over Kingdom Hearts.
  • Why wasn't Ariel, from The Little Mermaid a Princess of Heart? You'd think Disney would want said princesses to be all six of the "Disney Princesses". And why was she replaced by Alice of all people?
    • Because she'd need to be kept in a really big fish bowl at Hollow Bastion.
      • Plus, prior contact with Humans would mess up the dynamic of her own story. Remember, she never knew Sora was a human.
      • Don't forget, Square would have had to get rid of a party member by having Ariel get taken. Plus, how would she be captured? Donald's magic was the only reason they could breathe in Atlantica.
    • There's actually a very good reason why Ariel couldn't be used, regardless of whether or not she makes more sense from the perspective of marketing — Princesses of Heart have no darkness in their hearts. Ariel made a Deal with the Devil. Those two things, generally speaking, don't go together.
      • That, plus "disobeying" her father by going to the surface world may or may not have played a part in it.
    • As for why Alice is a Princess of Heart, it works with having Wonderland as one of the first few game worlds. The heroes are alerted to the disappearance of young girls early in the quest, instead of not finding out until they get all the way to Agrabah.
      • But Alice was never a princess, she became a queen.
      • A Princess of Heart doesn't actually have to be a 'princess' to qualify. Technically, Belle isn't a princess in KH1 because in the film she became a princess only once she married the Beast/Prince Adam at the end.
      • Cinderella wasn't a princess either, only becoming one when once she married Prince Charming.
    • Going back to the initial question, it would be a hard way to work her movie's plot into that of the game. She has to make her deal with Ursula to become human. You then have to defeat Ursula somehow but Ariel still be captured. And I think Atlantica is technically an optional world. You can skip either that or Halloween Town and go to Never Land straight away. No cutscenes in Atlantica are related to the main plot either.
  • Why hasn't Gaston appeared yet?
    • Because this isn't 4chan.
      • What does 4chan have to do with Gaston? And in any case I ask why Gaston hasn't appeared yet because he was the villain in one of the most famous Disney movies.
      • Gaston is a minor meme on 4chan. He's considered a Chuck Norris wannabe/furry slayer.
      • Because he was replaced by Xaldin as the antagonist in the Beast's story, and there's really no other role for him.
      • And, compared to villains like Maleficent, Jafar, and Hades, he probably wouldn't make for a very good Boss Battle.
      • Hey, they managed to make Pete work.
      • And Clayton, who has basically the same skill set as Gaston.
      • But he has a Gun
      • To be completely fair, Clayton was only a good boss because of the Stealth Sneak. Other than that, all he can do is shoot you and heal a bit of health. He could be a nameless pirate in Port Royal, basically. Then the Stealth Sneak became a semi-normal enemy anyway. What continuously amazes me is that they made CAPTAIN HOOK work.
      • Dude, Captain Hook was easy to work... he's a swordsman...
      • Besides which, no one hits like Gaston, matches wits like Gaston, and in a spitting match, nobody spits like Gaston!
      • Wasn't Gaston lifting things like benches and tables? And didn't he manage to trade blows with The Beast? And besides, I figure a 6 ft tall guy who can carry a wooden bench with one hand would be a better boss fight than a obese cat with a peg leg.
      • Lazy programmers. Destructible objects are a real bitch. Besides, that would be the only cool thing about his fight. Clayton had a modern rifle, but barring an anachronism by Maleficent handing it off to Gaston, he'll be stuck with a musket.
      • Most significantly, adding Gaston to the Beast/Belle storyline would bring in the personal dynamics that defined Gaston in the film — that is, the fact that it's clearly implied that Belle's relationship is what drove him to action against the Beast. This plot had already been explored enough times, so emphasizing the primary plot of the film (the one centered around the rose) kept the writing down to a level balanced with other worlds.
      • It's already been alluded to that Nomura wanted to avoid similar worlds. Tarzan replaced Junglebook, since two jungle-based worlds might have been dull. As Gaston and Clayton are basically built off the same template, it would make sense that Clayton's inclusion made Gaston superfluous.
      • They should have ditched Tarzan and used both Junglebook and Gaston. Nobody can truly replace Gaston.
      • You're right. Nobody could replace Gaston. His name was Xaldin.
  • What was the voice that Sora heard at the end of Kingdom Hearts one? (The one that was reassuring him that he has the "mightiest weapon of all")
    • Near as I can tell, that's supposed to be Sora himself.
      • I always figured it was the Light. The Darkness has that volcano-dwelling Satan figure as a potential head-honcho (too bad "Ansem" completely overshadows him), so why WOULDN'T the Light have its own headman? Especially as, apparently, Darkness = unthinking monsterhood, and Light = individual sentience and identity.
      • The Satan figure was another import from Disney: Chernabog.
    • Some say, it's the keyblade itself, since it has chosen him as worthy enough to carry it.
    • It's confirmed to be Mickey in the Ultimania for KH1.
      • It's Mickey Mouse? It sounds nothing like Mickey! What the hell, Disney.
      • Ahem... 'sounds'? The 'voice' manifests as text on a screen. You Fail Logic Forever.
      • I think he means that the dialogue used sounds nothing like Mickey would say.
      • Without playing any other game other than the 1st, I would understand why Mickey COULD be the voice, but after Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep, I truly belive it's Ventus. Mickey at this point in the game does NOT know that Sora is the Keyblade wielder. (Besides, we all agree that the manner of speaking the voice has does not match to Mickey's)
      • Mickey- "Aww, we don't hate it. It's just kinda... Scary."
      • Fridge Brilliance: Mickey isn't talking to Sora personally, but rather to the Keyblade wielder whose name he does not know, but who he knows must be out there. This plays into the theory that the Kingdom Keys are the two halves of the X-blade.
  • In Deep Jungle, Sora gets shown a slide of a castle and remarks that it looks familiar to him, even though he's never been outside of Destiny Islands before. Two games later and we haven't seen a structure remotely like it yet. Was it a stray plot hook that just got forgotten?
    • It was Kairi's heart recognizing the basic shapes of her original home, Hollow Bastion. Not an exact match, no, but they are both castles.
  • Why is the Keyblade able to cut through buildings in normal gameplay, yet unable to cut through a measly Shadow in less than three strikes? Personally, my friends and I decided that it was Schrodinger's sword — It exists as both an impossibly sharp blade and a giant key at the same time, and it's state can only be defined when it is in the action of cutting something. Or ineffectually bludgeoning something, as the case often is.
    • Because that would make for a rather boring game.
    • You mean the Rule of Cool isn't enough explanation?
      • Here's a better one; the Heartless regularly become more powerful than their previous incarnations were. By the time Sora has reached Hollow Bastion in the first game, he could, statistically, kill one of the Shadows from Destiny Islands in one hit, yet the Shadows in Hollow Bastion actually take more hits than the ones on Destiny Islands did. Presumably, by the time you hit The World That Never Was, Shadows have become sturdier than your average twenty story high-rise.
      • The Heartless get stronger the closer they are to darkness. That is why, when the Keyhole in Hollow Bastion was opened, all the Heartless in all the worlds became so much stronger from the darkness that was pouring out of it, and why the strongest ones appear only in the "Heartless worlds." Also why Darkside can only fight Sora when a world is nearly consumed by the darkness. As to the building-cutting thing, I always assumed that they were highly unstable structures. I mean, they DO only contain a weak-looking latticework of what appears to be darkness and nothing.
      • As a slight continuation of the previous troper's observation on the inside of the buildings, remember the location of this battle was the World That Never Was... which in of itself is likely a giant Nobody for entire worlds. If that's true, and I do admit it's possible I'm wrong, then why shouldn't the Keyblade act like a Ginsu knife on the structures? The Heartless and Nobodies are at least self-aware, and possibly their "health" is simply how much damage they can willfully ignore before needing to dissipate and reform a body. Again, just tossing out ideas, but if that also is true, a structure that can't actually think would be the equivalent of pretty tissue paper to the Keyblade.
    • The Heartless are made out of titanium, or diamonds, or something similar.
    • Maybe Sora is holding back. What.
    • What I want to know is how does Sora manage to appear on the other side of the buildings he cuts through... BEFORE they fall apart? He's not just cutting them, he's passing right through them.
    • Going with the above theory that the buildings are actually Nobody buildings, it makes perfect sense! They're Nobody buildings, they don't really exist. Remember in Twilight Town, when Hayner and Pence (I think it was them anyways) went right through Axel when they tried to attack them? And the fact that in gameplay the Keyblade passes through enemies while still doing damage? It's the same principle! Sora and his Keyblade are passing right through the nonexistent buildings, but the Keyblade is also damaging them and slicing them apart!
    • My interpretation is that most of The World That Never Was is a manifestation of Xemnas's powers, as he's explicitly shown to be able to manifest all kinds of things at will as part of his power set. It's the power of the Keyblade to tear through his artifices, whether that be his swordplay or that replica of the Chrysler building he just chucked at you.
  • If Riku was actually chosen to get the Keyblade, that went to Sora, why did Sora have an "Awakening-dream"? Could it be, that they were both chosen to get one from the beginning, but Riku didn't get his, cause of this whole Must-trust-darkness thing, that happened to him? In that case, they would both have had this dream. Or did Riku lose his right on the Keyblade, when he was six and saw the keyhole? Man, I'm pretty, pretty confused.
    • This is easy. Riku and Sora were both intended to get a Keyblade, and Riku probably did have an Awakening dream. Sora never discussed his dream with Riku, just Kairi, so we can't really know. Riku didn't get his Keyblade because he embraced the Darkness instead.
      • Interesting... I always saw the Awakening Dream, at least in the case of Sora, as his heart/subconscious's way of preparing him for the Heartless invasion. Notice how the subject of the Keyblade never ACTUALLY comes up in his dream? Unlike in Roxas's, the blade doesn't even appear for him: He just fights with whichever Dream Weapon that he chose.
      • Who's to say he didn't have one; after all, there was that thing with the door in the flashback in Monstro — perhaps his came around the time Kairi showed up...
      • Riku actually does get a Keyblade: Soul Eater (that bat-wing-sword thing he uses) turns out to be the proto-form of Way to Dawn, the Keyblade he uses in the latter segments of Kingdom Hearts II.
    • Check out the KingdomHearts for theories on Destiny and Dreams.
    • I believe it was stated in the ultimania that that was Mickey readying him for what was coming, and that Sora was never actually meant to receive one on his own, rather the theory is that he pulled Riku's keyblade from his heart in a moment of pure darkness.
  • The game relies on power trio tropes, with heavy emphasis on theme symbolism, sometimes doubled. For example, we have Sora/Donald/Goofy (Fighter/Wizard/Shield and also Red/Blue/Green, a colour combination which repeats a lot). Hayner/Pence/Olette; Selphie/Tidus/Wakka; the Trinity Marks, Xemnas's final battles... The list is extensive. With the Destiny Islands trio of Sora/Kairi/Riku we have the theme naming of sky/sea/land, the knight/princess/sidekick and also the optimist/realist/pessimist, MacGuffin/AntiHero... But the major theme of the games are Light/Dark/Twilight. If Kairi is Light (Princess of Heart) and Riku is Twilight (reference CoM), then doesn't that make Sora Dark?
    • Well, I have thought about this too and, YES, Sora actually IS dark. I mean, he's the only one of the three, who actually became a Heartless, and he still has the ability to become one, when his body is disabled (Anti Form). Darkness is not always bad. As Riku said "We're just afraid, of what's inside...". But if you search long enough in the darkness, you MAY find a hidden treasure! Riku did (after a few disastrous attempts) find some cool, black-magic spells inside and maybe Sora will one day learn to control Anti Form, maybe even how to give other Heartless their minds back! ...OK, this last sentence kinda belongs into the WMG.
    • Bear in mind that Mickey is also Dark. The Light appears to serve as a guiding light and defender of the good that already exists (Minnie and Kairi) and the Dark is the person who forges new light. Mickey especially has a rather impressive Heel-Face Turn record, guiding both DiZ and Riku towards redemption. With that, either DiZ or Riku could serve as Mickey's Twilight, both use Darkness to achieve their aims and both are noted antiheroes.
      • Uh, so then is there a point to the Twilight, or was that just an excuse to give Riku a Keyblade?
      • I guess, if this vein of thought is accurate, that Twilight is a person who embraces both light and darkness, darkness is a kind of narrow-minded fighter, and light is a pacifist who relies solely on their glowing powers to see them through. Alternatively, though, Riku could be dark, Sora twilight, and Kairi light, although they may see themselves as something else. Heh, brings me back to the Genesis/Sephiroth/Angeal/??? — Hero/Prisoner/Wanderer question raised by Crisis Core. It's true: Kingdom Hearts is the new Final Fantasy VII.
      • Y'know, one fanfic writer actually went through with that D/T/L thing here.
      • "From light, the only way to go is into darkness. From darkness, the twilight becomes the dawn..." (probably not a KH quote, but it still fits) And the above troper's theory is what I always believed, that Kairi is the "embodiment of light, never gets consumed by darkness" personification, Riku is unstable and can go either way depending on his company and which way he's (metaphorically) facing, sort of symbolic of the typical human, and Sora is the one who is required to get his hands dirty chopping up thousands of darkness-coated hearts in order to save the world (remember, Dark Is Not Evil).
      • "If the world is Light and Darkness, let's be the Darkness." "Yeah." Or something to that effect.
    • I believe you might be wrong. In my playing of the games, I have figured that Kairi is light, Riku is Darkness, and Sora is Twilight. It makes sense when you think about the fact that Sora has the ability to use light (his normal overdrive forms, carry the heart of a princess in the first game) and the darkness (anti-form, surviving as a humanoid heartless, etc). To be honest, it makes more sense.
      • Or you're just overthinking it so it can fit into your particular pet theory.
      • Does that make me more incorrect then the previous theory? Or, for that matter, more correct? I was just stating an option and my opinion. Take it or leave it.
    • If Kairi is the "light" and Riku is the "Dark" does that make Sora the "Twilight"?
      • No.
      • Maybe.
      • It's complicated. There are compelling arguments for either conclusion.
    • You all appear to be forgetting that day has four points: Day, Twilight, Night, and Dawn. Sora's dawn, the point where darkness shifts to light.
      • There are actually two different twilights during a day: Dawn, where darkness shifts to light, and Dusk, where light shifts to darkness.
      • In my theory, I believe the concept from the troper above. Kairi is of course Light, Riku is Dusk and Sora is Dawn. Reason? Sora cannot be Dark because of the Keyblade and Ventus. Because of what happened before Bb S, he became a person of pure light while Venitas became the personification of his darkness. Riku is Dusk because he was chosen by Terra to succeed in using the Keyblade but derailed from this path of Light into the Darkness. Who is Dark, I cannot tell you because I don't know myself.
    • Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days lists Roxas's element as "Light". Given that he's Sora's Nobody, it's probably safe to assume Sora is Light as well. Besides, his Keyblade (the Kingdom Key, or Kingdom Chain in Japanese) is the Keyblade of the Realm of Light, just like Mickey's Kingdom Key D (or Kingdom Chain D) is the Keyblade of the Realm of Darkness. Most of Sora's attacks/abilities in Kingdom Hearts II are light-based, while Riku's are dark-based. Also, in the first game, when Riku reaches his hand out to Sora when surrounded by darkness, Sora attempts to take it, but a flash of light comes from his body, which repels him — this points to Sora being Light and Riku being Dark. It's possible that, if Riku had gotten the Keyblade instead of Sora like he was meant to, the Keyblade he received would have been the Kingdom Key D, not the Kingdom Key, cementing Riku's position as a warrior of the Realm of Darkness. My theory is that Sora is Light, Riku is Dark, and Mickey is Twilight. Kairi is also Light, being a Princess of Heart and all.
  • A friend of mine thinks that Square Enix needs to stop making Kingdom Hearts games. When I expressed my disagreement, he explained that each installment just muddies up the story making it more and more confusing (never mind the fact that said friend is a huge Star Wars fan, need I say more about their confusing storyline?), he also doesn't like that they keep adding Final Fantasy characters and retconning their back-stories to fit in the KH storyline. When I told him that Kingdom Hearts is a different continuity from the Final Fantasy games and that none of the interactions between FF and Disney characters is meant to be Canon to their respective stories, he dismissed it as me being the only one to say that. The problem is that I say that because I remember reading it somewhere on the Kingdom Hearts Wiki. Can anyone else back me up on this?
    • You are indeed correct. Perhaps you could direct your friend in the direction of the wiki?
    • I agree with your friend that the story with each passing game is getting more and more confusing, but the Final Fantasy characters aren't and never have been the same versions as from their respective games. Your friend must have gotten so confused by the other stuff in the series that he missed out on an obvious detail.
    • Hey how about yu tell him that in Birth by Sleep Luke Skywalker teaches the three main protagonists how to swing a keyblade. I am dead serious. And otherwise I cant disagree with him. Especially the sidegames like Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and 362/2 Days make it really confusing to go from Kingdom Hearts to Kingdom Hearts II. Its like Square is milking the story while it is alive. But lets see after KH 3 Ds if it finally ends. Then again... I really like too know what happend. Also if they did a KH:MMORPG playing in the Keylade-wars would be awesome.

  • Even though you might just say that this plot hole is simply because Square didn't come up with this element of the plot yet, it is still a question why Sora never encountered any Nobodies in Kingdom Hearts 1. If a Nobody is created every time a Heartless is, and Sora sees tons of Heartless, where are all the Nobodies? It is a mystery why no member of Organization 13 ever tries to shut down Sora's Disney-villain killing spree.
    • Easy, KH2 showed the goal of Organization 13, which is to have Sora kill as many heartless as possible, to create an artificial Kingdom Hearts so they can get their hearts back. They don't WANT to stop Sora from what he's doing.
    • He did, Sora just wasn't aware that Xemnas was one. He was just a mysterious man in a cloak to him.
  • Perhaps it doesn't fully violate the rule but shouldn't Jafar not have been able to make genie attack Sora for the first part of the boss fight as genie might have killed Sora by accident in the process?
    • One could construe it that the Genie will simply weaken Sora to the point where he can't fight back, and then Jafar would walk over and step on his neck. That's what I'd do anyway. The game censors the trachea-stomping.
      • The "genies can't kill" or any other genie rules that were used with the Aladdin universe genies in the movies or cartoon isn't established for the Kingdom Hearts version at any point before or since this fight, so it's probably not an issue. In fact, the "no killing" rule is outright defied both during to this fight against Genie and any fights against Genie Jafar after it as he actively tries to kill Sora and can succeed.
      • also I know its so its beatable but why didn't Iago just fly so high up he couldn't be hit by Sora?
      • The Lamp is a large brass vessel, probably weighing around a half-kilo, being held aloft by a scrawny makaw of probably a hundred grams or so. Iago probably couldn't lift it any higher if he wanted to, unless perhaps if he was backed up by an African or European swallow with a bit of creeper, persay.
  • Is it just me, or do they seem to have a fondness for Neverland? It gets worked in a lot, and has probably the most music mixes.
    • No. If they did, they'd show the real Neverland, not just random outcroppings copypasted from Wind Waker and the Jolly Roger.
  • Why did "Ansem" need to possess Riku at all? He shouldn't have needed to do it to "regain a physical presence" as the game claims. Other heartless are perfectly able to interact with the world despite no longer having bodies, why would Ansem have needed one?.
    • Maybe he just did it to troll Sora for no real reason.
    • If that's the case, then it's one of the most backfiring cases of For the Evulz ever.
      • Well, if you ignore the fact that Riku had to struggle with Ansem taking over his heart in CoM, then his appearance and voice in Days and II, then I would suppose so.
      • I consider it a case of backfiring because Riku ultimately destroyed "Ansem" in the end and even just minutes after Riku was possessed Riku was fighting back against him and making things difficult for him, and afterwards Ansem was pretty much sealed away entirely and then his power was used against his other half. Sure, Ansem had no way of knowing this would happen but he still would have been better off if he never possessed Riku to begin with.
      • So you're conceding to my point, then?
      • KHI Ansem needed Riku because while he was a heartless, he didn't have a physical body and thus couldn't interact, he's not exactly your typical heartless.
      • Good point. But it wasn't because of his being humanoid, it was because he was abusing Time Travel too much.
  • What in god's name is a heart, anyways? If souls exist separately, then what purpose does a heart serve? Did Nomura just want an allusion to be easier to Title Drop?
    • The body is the vessel for the heart and mind, the soul is what animates the body (think life energy) and the heart is what makes emotions possible, as well as being a sort of container for the light and darkness within a person.
      • So that would mean that the soul is essentially an allusion to the mind in Kingdom Hearts, then, while the heart is essentially the soul in all but name.
      • No, the soul is merely something that makes it possible for the body to function, it has no other purpose. To put it simply, without the soul the body would be dead, but without the heart the body can possibly still be alive, as evidenced by the Nobodies. The mind is another separate 4th thing, but unlike the heart, body, and soul, they don't really go into much detail on how the mind works, probably because it's pretty much a non presence in the KH universe as of yet, the only being purely of the mind at this point is Terra's Lingering Will. And yes, the Heart is pretty much the soul as we in the real world describe the soul, if we're referring to emotions and the capacity for light and darkness, good and evil, but in the KH universe the Heart and Soul are entirely different things.
      • Well, I made the comparison of KH's souls and the mind because they both make the body function. In all honestly, you could say people in KH don't have brains because Japanese culture doesn't allude to them.
      • In terms of KH, think of yourself as a talking plush. The plush itself is, of course, your body; the voice box is your heart; the batteries are your soul. The voice box gives you personality, but it can only work with batteries. Yes, our hearts are what make us us and are extremely important, but they cannot function without the soul to keep them and our bodies alive.
  • In the first game, Phil says that a "bunch of weirdos" signed up for the Coliseum games. How did a bunch of Heartless just waltz right in and sign up, without causing any heart-stealing disasters, especially one being a freaking Behemoth?!
    • Hades likely gave the Heartless strict orders to follow. Heartless do whatever they're being commanded to, remember. So long as that person is strong enough to lead them.
  • A minor nitpick, but with the scene where Sora meets Riku in Traverse town doesn't make any sense. The first problem is Donald outright refusing to allow Riku to go with them for no reason ever given before or since then for it, but the second problem is Sora's reaction after Riku subsequently vanishes: he's is completely nonchalant about it. Sora doesn't even get the slightest bit pissed off at Donald for driving Riku off, reacting with an "oh well" when I'd at least expect him to chew Donald out for driving his best friend off if not give the guy a light smack for it. What's worse, in Riku's mind this only serves to confirm the suspicions that Maleficent has been trying to plant in his head.
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