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Headscratchers: Kingdom Come
  • The novelization of Kingdom Come says that Power Woman/Girl dies in the nuclear blast, but if Superman survived the blast why didn't she if she's presumably Kryptonian in this universe too? It just doesn't add up.
    • Less absorbed sunlight in her tissue at that point in time?
      • It's directly stated Superman's invulnerability has never been higher due to his age, and the fact that he's been absorbing sunlight for decades more. Power Woman is younger than Superman —- ergo she is less invulnerable.
      • Due to a smaller cup size and no boob window. See what ignoring Fanservice gets you?
    • Or she's simply not Kryptonian in that universe.
      • Bingo, when Kingdom Come came out, she was still officially an Atlantean.
      • But wait, If she isn't his cousin in the Kingdom Come time line, then how come in the JSA story that crossed over with Kingdom Come it's her that's his Berserk Button upon returning? Also he calls her Kara. Was that still her name during the Atlantean era?
      • That was her name during the Atlantean period of her history. The reason that the main Earth Power Girl tried to connect with Kingdom Come Superman was because of his age, and his powers, he was much like her cousin, Kal-L of Earth-2 who was murdered by Superboy-Prime in Infinite Crisis. This was an event of Expendable Alternate Universe being averted.
    • Even if she is the Earth-2 Kara, the Earth-2 Kryptonians are Nerfed compared to their Earth-1 counterparts. Kal-L didn't have powers approaching those of Earth-1 Kal-El (in his prime, not years and years later as in KC) until he was in middle age.
  • What happened to all the characters of the DCU not used in Kingdom Come?
    • Dead or retired? That seemed to be the implication when I read it.
    • Many of them are "exploring distant worlds or other times". Most notably Superboy and Supergirl joined the Legion of the Superheroes.
    • If Alex Ross doesn't like you, you don't exist. Ask poor Kyle Rayner.
      • C'mon, they didn't include Guy or Hal or John Stewart either. Kyle had been around for less than a year when this story was written. The League in this story entirely consists of iconic old school heroes while Kyle at the time was Younger and Hipper, one of the trends being deconstructed in this very story.

  • Why is Captain Marvel's Heroic Sacrifice treated like a viable third option? He stops the bomb, but it still explodes and kills him and many metahumans. If he let Superman deal with it, wouldn't Superman have prevented it from killing anybody? Then again I'm not quite familiar with the limits of either Superman or Marvel's powers, am I missing information that would help?
    • Superman would have prevented it from killing anybody, and the war of supers would have raged unchecked across the world leaving devastation in its wake. The two options were letting humanity destroy the supers, or letting the supers destroy humanity. It was a Third Option because he found a way to instead help them live together in relative peace.
      • And said Third Option HAD to involve a mass murder? Hell, this is STILL unresolved at the end of the story, the New Heroes should be absolutely furious, but because they got lectured at on Themiscyra for a few months they just forget about it? It a great story overall, but the writer really underestimated humanitys need for revenge when they are wronged.

  • If Von Bach is German, then why is he dictator of Yugoslavia?
    • Who says he's German? He could be Austrian, which makes a little more sense considering it's a bit closer, and fits with his whole "Hitler expy" thing. The way I see it he either moved there to take it over, or he just speaks German to be pretentious. He doesn't even really speak good German “No trouble Cosmonaut" indeed.
    • Confirmed in the novelization. Von Bach was pretending to be german because he thinks its cool. Adam Blake calls him out on it pointing out that only movie germans would say schweinhund the way Von Bach does (that usage of the word has been out of favor in germany for about a century now.)

  • So, how old was Magog? He acted very young, acted rashly, talked about how he heard of Superman being outdated, etc. But when he takes the helmet off, he looks as old as Bruce.
    • He said "people were calling you old-fashioned when I was a teenager". Due to Comic-Book Time, Superman has always been around "about 10 years", and the timeline of this story adds another 10 years. So that puts Magog's age at about 35 - 45, depending on how old a teenager Magog was and what stage in Superman's career they were calling him outdated. But you're right; he does look older. Maybe he's just seen a lot of battle? Or maybe his powers rely on drugs or something that take a toll on his health?
    • Magog is based on Cable, who is also an older man so maybe Magog had a time-traveling origin story like Cable? He could have spent decades in a different time.

  • Superman stops from killing the UN leaders. Okay, fair enough, no-killing rule, totally in-character. But then he (and the writers) simply forgives them for just killing a bunch of his old friends among other people. So Supes couldn't get along with Magog who killed exactly one person (who totally deserved it) but is ready to give a free card to motherf@><ing genocidal murderers? They should be jailed, tried and sentenced not offered to work together. And don't tell me 'They are elected heads of states': first it implies that laws don't apply to them and second - so was Hitler.
    • Well, their decision was entirely justifiable. They were sorta trying to save the world. Superman probably understood that.
    • The 'Hitler' comparison isn't entirely fair, since this is hardly unprovoked aggression or anything; the superheroes (of either stripe) have been out of control for a good long while, even before Superman showed up, and even when he came back instead of working with the authorities they've in fact shown clear signs of taking over (for one example, building a superhuman prison on American soil without actually telling anyone beforehand). And now they're in a pitched battle that's threatening to engulf the entire planet and conceivably wipe out anyone who isn't a superhuman. They're completely out of control, and something needs to be done. Plus, the Superman / Magog example is kind of undercut by the fact that Superman eventually comes to forgive — or at least come to an accord with — Magog as well.
    • What else was the UN supposed to do? We've seen various heroes duking it out -for fun- over the previous chapters, with civilians in the crossfire, and no normal person's been able to stop them. Dropping a nuke wasn't just a last resort, it was also the only weapon the UN had that had the potential to stop the supers.
    • I think the bigger question is why Superman was allowed to leave when he nearly killed representatives of every country. I just realized reading this page; wouldn't doing that only make the relationships between the UN and superheroes even worse?
    • This implies that there was anybody left on the planet who had to decide to "allow" Superman to leave. At this point, if there's anybody left on the planet who could stand up to Superman it would be someone who'd survived the nuke, and one doubts that they'd be in much of a mood to argue the point, either. Sure the UN diplomats might raise a fuss in later negotiations, but the "superhuman war" apocalypse everyone was fearing had been effectively defused and everyone was probably relieved enough about that to go ahead and accept a cease-fire. Remember, this is probably the first time since the Magog trial that someone was in play who was both willing to negotiate with the humans and powerful enough to speak for the supers.

  • Soooo... how did Hawkman turn into a birdman, again?
    • Because Green Lantern became crazy because a yellow bug was in his brain and he turned evil. He tried to hit the reset button on the whole universe and made big portals appear and everything, things were turning white all over, and all kinds of nasty s*** was going down. Hawkman (Carter Hall, a handsome white guy who was the reincarnation of an Egyptian guy and later found out he was actually Native American), Hawkman (Katar Hal, an alien from Thanagar who actually lived on earth without anybody knowing it, and was the founding member of the JLA until we found out it was actually Carter and some guy impersonating him the whole time), and Hawkgirl (Shayera Hal, Katar's wife and an alien who was sometimes the reincarnation of an Egyptian princess and a cowgirl) all got sucked into a portal and crunched together. Out came this big ugly bird-man who had the powers of all three. And the editors thought that this was LESS confusing than how things were before.
    • Same reason the only living male Flash is either Jay Garrick or all the male flashes merged with the speed force and projecting as a singular being in Jay's image. Same reason Beast Boy can now only change into mythical creatures. The same reason the only Green Lanterns appear to be tied to the Golden Age Green Lantern.
    • Basically, all of the above mentioned transformations were done with the goal of making the heroes less human, more godlike, to reinforce the theme. Superman is simply more powerful than ever, Batman uses a mech, Green Lantern has merged with his power battery and lives on a citadel in space, The Flash simply is speed incarnate, and so on.
  • What I really think triggered the whole NAH running riot really was that having Magog's name cleared of charges gave the wrong message to the NAH generation - that they can take a life and create collateral damage and not take responsibility, which is what Kingdom Come really all about. It's not "NAH suck, GAH rule." Sure, it's what it looks like, but what Supes and all the others attempted to do is showing that generation that every action they do has to be done with responsibility. On the other hand, Supes' mistake was simple - a deconstruction of the superhero, if you will. Do people really need superheroes when superthreats are gone, or should human beings police their own? From the resolution of the story, it is evident that "living WITH the humans and not ABOVE them" it is fairly evident that we are getting a different sort of doctrine,which I daresay does have some theological aspect; in reasoning it out, why is it better that mightier forces (even in the family environment, i.e. parent-child relationship) do not intervene with certain problems that do not require their services? It would be spoon feeding and will subsequently hinder any potential development, in this case for the "man" to become closer to the "super" thanks to their own effort and adaptation.

  • Why does it take the revelation of Batman's identity for Bane to wreck the Batcave? It's well established Bane knows he's Bruce Wayne.
    • Laser-Guided Amnesia, happens to supervillains all the time when they learn a hero's secret identity, if they don't die.
  • The ending to the story makes absolutely no sense. The wedge between the old guard and the new generation of anti-heroes is completely unresolved, and if anything, the surviving metahumans should be MORE disenfranchised and angry at the world than before, since they were basically the target of a genocide attempt. And everyone just... forgets about it? Yeah, the epilogue has them being "mentored", but then what? What, did all of them just need someone to hold their hand and give them encouragement? What about the ones who still werent the least bit interested in what the first generation of heroes thought should be the end all to be all morality? This is not adressed at all. Where they just kept in confinement?
    • They were the target of a "genocide attempt" because their very existance was a threat to the whole planet. There are no supervillains anymore on this earth; it's all super "heroes" fighting each other because there is no one to stop them; the story explicitly tells us that after Captain Atom is killed they become even more suicidal and careless in their fights. If anything, the world powers are now super heroes vs antiheroes; and both of those groups completely disregard the lives of civilians who they are supposed to be protecting. The old guard is composed of silver age heroes who shut down into themselves, retire, or just plain abandon earth out of disillusion after Superman leaves. The very few still active are so set on their ways that they compound the problem even further, having reached the limits of their potential they are out of touch with humanity. Hawkman is an ecoterrorist who couldn't care less if he murders "evil people" as long as the environment is protected; Aquaman effectively abandons the world and is more focused on preserving the seas (he's not human anyways), Wonder Woman was expelled from Paradise Island and she believes it was because she didn't fight hard enough (ie: willing to kill) and is looking to have her status brought back, Batman is a de facto dictator in Gotham, a city that is now an Orwellian nightmare with Batman as the man in control, Keystone City is a perfect place as The Flash patrols it at superluminal speeds, correcting even the most minor of crimes in the blink of an eye; Green Lantern detaches from humanity and fuses with his battery and goes to live in orbit, scanning for alien threats but completely ignoring what happens on the surface.
    • The point is that all the old heroes become overlords who are more focused on keeping their status quo than in truly protecting makind, while their successors have almost completely eradicated supervillainy by turning into even worse thugs than the old supervillains; this is what flies over the head of many people reading this book: BOTH SIDES ARE SHOWN TO BE WRONG FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. Superman is also so detached and living in the past, unable to fix the world even tough this is the most powerful Superman to be depicted in comic book history; it blatantly spelled out during the finale: he is certain that he is able to stop the bomb getting dropped on them, he doesn't know if he SHOULD anymore.
      • But arent the anti-heroes arguably right? I still dont understand the moral at the end, it doesnt matter how much you work together with the goverments of the world, super villains would appear anyway. Unless the new order of the day is comprehensive social changes, it wont actually prevent a new generation of supervillains to appear. The anti-heroes appeared because the original heroes couldnt actually prevent super criminals from running rampant, and I dont see how that magically changed.
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