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Headscratchers: G.I. Joe: Renegades
  • So they made Lady Jaye a Latina. Now, I could care less about a character's race (especially if the change is of a minor character), and I know that "too many whities" can make a show stale and not seem inclusive. Yet when they take a main character from the original cartoon and change her race entirely, it just seems like a cheap attempt to make it look like they're globally sensitive (see Rise Of Cobra). I understand how it can be a positive influence on a young viewer who sees a bit of him/herself in the character, when so many heroes are portrayed as white...I get that. Yet if they really wanted a fiery Latina on the show, wouldn't it have been more poignant to make an ORIGINAL character that was entertaining and interesting in her own right that happened to have that heritage, rather than just altering a pre-existing one? (I'll grant, there could be a rights issue I don't know about.) It isn't a single aspect that ruins the entire show for me. Heck, she may even grow on me over time with her accent and improper grammar. Right now, though, it just seems...unnecessary.
    • The problem with making an original character is that, really, fans aren't going to care one whit about an original character. If you had an original character instead, the complaints would be "Why didn't you use [established character]?" So they take an established character and change one trait which, honestly, shouldn't make any lick of difference anyway.
      • I disagree. There are times when fans respond well to the creation of an original character. It leaves an impression on them, and said character develops a following. Bulkhead from Transformers Animated for example. Or Beast Wars! They could've easily called Waspinator "Insecticon" or named him after one of the Insecticons from G1, but he got his own name and personality; his popularity saved him from getting Killed Off for Real in the Season 1 finale.
      • Hasbro needs to keep the trademarks of its characters alive, hence using them with characters that might differ from the original portrayal is a way to go. It's done all the time with Transformers, and a lot of the time they get way more than a minor ethnicity switch. (is Lady Jaye being latina instead of white and not much else different really that much of a heinous crime against humanity?)
      • Playing Devil's Advocate here: why that established character, then? Codenames are supposed to make sense. (Actually, true code names aren't, but this is a kids' cartoon in a Merchandise-Driven franchise, so eh.) The reason for Lady Jaye's name in the old '80s series was that she actually is related to European nobility (and in fact is a cousin, however distant, of the Baroness). I suppose she might be related to Spanish or Portugese royalty or something...
      • Lady Jaye isn't the Baroness' distant cousin. She's Destro's.
      • What personally bugs this troper the most (well, relatively speaking. In addition to the rest. At the moment...)? The show's title sequence actually includes bits of the characters bios, like in the toy filecards. They even use the original information for the characters, including Lady Jaye...aka "Alison Hart-Burnett; Birthplace: Martha's Vineyard, Maryland." This troper will concede that it doesn't seem completely unbelievable.
      • It's entirely possible. This troper knows personally people who have anglo names, both first and last, but are hispanic.
      • And then there's Adam "Seananners" Montoya, who is apparently extremely white.
    • On the last name thing, she could be adopted.
    • The name can make sense without much use of a hammer. Jaye is short for Joe or Jane, both which can be applied to military. Lady for female or a princess attitude. I'd have to watch some old episodes, but she was Lady Jaye before they gave the royalty angle. I'm not really sure why I keep thinking Marine with her when she's probably Army. Really, the Latina thing is probably more the actress. If you want to think about it this way, she's a white woman who sounds like a Latina.
  • Snake-Eyes being a blond white man Headscratchers. It reeks a bit of Mighty Whitey, especially given that the native character is the bad guy, and Snake-Eyes had to run off with the cute little heiress.
    • True but Snake-Eyes has been a blond white man since the begining and in every incarnation since. They're not likely going to change it for a more PC character.
      • Maybe the hair color.
      • Still reeks of it, regardless of origins. Also, see Lady Jaye's inclusion (made by another troper) above. If they could change her, why couldn't they change Snake-Eyes? It would have made a lot more sense.
    • The original reason for Snake Eyes's ethnicity was Larry Hama, who both wrote the original comics and apparently the file cards that came with the action figures, wanted to make a point. As a Japanese-American, he had encountered some cultural hostility from native Japanese, and so Snake Eyes, along with being based lightly on a real military sergeant he knew, was also used as a bit of an author insert, his way of saying that he had just as much claim over his culture.
      • So he couldn't have made Snake-Eyes a Japanese-American or another person of color dealing with the same thing?
      • That's basically giving in to their demands while the whole message is that a writer (or anyone in the creative arts) shouldn't be restricted to telling stories solely about their ethnicity. It's kind of like lambasting Quentin Tarantino for making Jackie Brown or Kill Bill because he's telling stories about cultures he is not a part of.
      • I might have missed something, but what demands? All the above troper stated was that Larry Hama dealt with cultural hostility for being Japanese-American. Furthermore, the entry was more about Snake-Eyes specifically being Mighty Whitey. There are plenty of ways to lay claim to your own culture without raising different Unfortunate Implications, especially when they consist of one of the most contemptible tropes among minorities since Uncle Tomfoolery.
      • Larry Hama hates being called Japanese-American because he is something like a third generation American. He said that so many people feel the need to include the hyphen and somehow that implies he isn't a full American. And then he is treated like he should be wearing a Japanese flag bandana at all times, which is the cultural hostility that was mentioned. My understanding is that the relationship between Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes is his Author Avatar, one representing his ethnic heritage and the other representing his nationality. Both are awesome badasses and in several continuities the two become Blood Brothers / Bash Brothers after they straighten out their rivalry. Mighty Whitey isn't always Unfortunate Implications, but might actually be the point. Their story usually goes that a third party is the one who killed their Master, so both were in the wrong for blaming the other.
    • While the point is Snake-Eyes is supposedly Mighty Whitey there's also a bit of Fridge Brilliance here. The members of of the ninja clan are so loyally clinging to traditions, that need to be changed it takes an outsider to make them see it. Granted this Snake-Eyes ''didn't have to be white but still the point stands.
      • TL;DR: Snake Eyes has always been white in every incarnation, so there's no point complaining about it now.
  • The episode with the Dreadnoks only annoyed me with the ending. While teaching the town to defend itself was good, the Sheriff getting courage wasn't. It would have made much more sense to have the town stop the Dreadnoks and get a new sheriff who wouldn't be such a coward. His getting guts at the end seemed just a tacked on moment to me.
    • Well, the whole Home Alone style of dealing with the Deadnoks was a bit iffy to me. As for the Sheriff, if he hadn't shown some guts at the end, then he would've served no purpose. In the beginning, he's basically a victim of bullying, something to which just about anyone can relate. If he doesn't take a meaningful inner journey to go from victim to warrior/defender (in this case fulfilling his duties as an officer of the law and kick some Dreadnok keister), then he's of no use as a character. That will be more meaningful for the younger members of the audience.
    • Actually I think he would have useful as he shows the reason the Joes are needed. He's an example of a weak defender and the Joes come in and have him replaced so they don't need to stay. As for the so-called Home Alone stuff makes sense. They can't outfight the enemy, so they have to out-think it. Wgat also makes it work is the more real take on the tricks. They're show as the kind of guerrilla tactics needed to win.
      • The point of the episode was for victims to stand up to their aggressors/bullies. Both the sheriff's growth and the town's citizenry disabling the Dreadnoks exemplify this. It becomes a Broken Aesop if they replace a character for a moment of weakness, or let someone else do all the work.
      • I still think it's debatable as the sheriff never showed any courage until the end. However a case like this needs to be done delicately and they probably went the way best for a childrens show.
  • How did Jinx expect for Snake-Eyes to explian what happened with the death of the Hard Master, when he apparently doesn't know sign langauge or have a piece of paper?
    • Why haven't Snake-Eyes or Jinx ever thought to learn sign langauge?
      • Ninja Idiot Ball. Much stealthier than regular Western Idiot Ball. Or perhaps they've been so busy training and eluding Storm Shadow that they couldn't find the time. Besides, seeing as how Snake Eyes was hanging on for his life, sign language probably would not have been the best idea at the time. What's more...it seems Snake Eyes has his own form of sign language; more direct, to the point, and leaves out little details like "I was trying to save your Papa-san by performing an emergency tracheotomy."
      • That and the fact that he was doing it to prevent another assassination attempt is rather convoluted and unbelievable under normal circumstances.
  • Is the government not interviewing any of the people who've witnessed what Cobra is doing? Like the farmers who were attacked by the genetically engineered monster that left behind tons of goo? Or the people who must have seen Major Blood shooting rockets in the middle of a big city?
    • There's only the Joes' word that the Bio-Vipers are from Cobra. Considering said Joes are wanted for the destruction of Cobra's facility, some untraceable goo isn't likely to sway an investigator. Cobra could also keep their association with Bludd (and other operatives like him) underwraps. They get caught, Cobra doesn't know them; if the Commander thinks they'll talk, he'll get rid of them.
  • Why is The Hub putting this show "on hiatus" due to a Live Action Movie, despite being perfectly fine having Transformers Prime air during Transformers: Dark of the Moon's blockbuster summer? Don't tell me the 2012 movie has "Renegades" somewhere in its title?
    • Because Hasbro execs always treats Joe as the redheaded stepchild because they expect it to perform as well as Transformers do, which is an impossibility due to its subject matter (military rather than science fiction). As much love as the show-runners, toy designers and copy writers give to Joe, ultimately Hasbro's higher-ups treat it like crap. And no, the upcoming live-action sequel has nothing to do with Renegades. Dwayne Johnson will play Roadblock and rumors say it will follow on the story threads left following Rise of Cobra, such as Zartan impersonating the President.
      • Teaser trailer for Retaliation just came out. Looks like the premise is similar to Renegades. The Joes are on the run.
  • What was the point of bringing back Ripcord? His death was pretty meaningful (when they mentioned it) and bringing him back feels rather cheap, much like in thw season one finale of Iron Man: Armored Adventures with Howard Stark.
    • Because tracking down 'the prototype' (AKA Ripcord) was a motivation for COBRA to step up their pursuit of the Joes, as well as to shake up the dynamic of the team a little.
G.I. JoeHeadscratchers/WESTERNANIMATIONGravity Falls

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