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It seems the perfect opportunity
- Why didn't Hans let the Duke's guard kill Elsa? He implied that he was going to do so anyways. If he didn't want to kill her unless there was no other choice, then why would he be willing to accelerate Anna's death? If he's worried that Anna would reject him, that doesn't make sense since he wasn't the one who killed her, and he could further manipulate her emotions. If he wanted to kill Elsa himself to get the glory, it wouldn't make sense since the executioner would have done so, and if the Guard killed Elsa for him, he would have gotten credit for leading the crew to her.
- He wanted her to end the winter conditions she created. After learning that she couldn't, he decided to tie up a loose end. Accelerating Anna's death would also tie up another, much larger, loose end. The fact that she was still breathing would prove everything he said false and make things end very badly for him.
- It was rational to believe that Elsa was the source of the freak winter, and thus destroying the cause would halt the effects. Since the source was a person, how does one stop it? The source either had conscious control or not. Elsa did not and nothing could be done to stop her. As this was the case, it would be the most logical to kill her. The rag-tag military did not know that. They probably assumed she had control over it. This means that she would choose whether or not to create or continue the adverse weather. If she was a benevolent queen (which she was), she would have never created the storm in the first place. If she was malevolent enough to slowly doom a land in a slow, cold death, she could not be reasoned with to end the suffering. If one of the objectives of the mission was to find an end to the winter, then terminating Elsa would be the the only reasonable course of action. There was no reasoning with her, and keeping her alive and later imprisoned up was senseless.
- The objective of the mission was to find Anna, not to end the winter. Also, the Arendelle Guards (that is, everyone in the so-called "rag-tag military" except Hans and the two men sent by the Duke of Weselton) were probably loyal enough to Elsa (by virtue of her being their queen) to want to give her the benefit of the doubt, rather than assume she was cursing the kingdom on purpose. They are sworn servants of the crown and would not be quick to jump to that sort of conclusion about their own monarch. Nor would they be willing to kill her to stop the winter if they knew she was causing it unintentionally. You speak of what is most logical, but their loyalty to the crown probably trumps any desire to ruthlessly solve the problem by any means necessary. Hans, since he wanted to rule Arendelle, made a priority of acting in a way that the Arendelle Guards would see as heroic. It wasn't until after he could pin Anna's death on Elsa, that Hans felt he could kill Elsa and have this be seen as acceptable by the people he was hoping to rule. Prior to being convinced that Elsa murdered Anna, no one (besides the Duke, but he didn't have any say in who gets to rule Arendelle) would have agreed with killing Elsa, and not trying to stop the Duke's men from doing it wouldn't have reflected well on him in their eyes. Although if his "accidental" hitting of the chandelier was on purpose, he could have been trying (unsuccessfully, since she survived) to get the best of both worlds (look like a hero for trying to save the queen from those presumptious foreign assassins, but she gets crushed to death anyway and is no longer an obstacle to his taking the throne.)
- Alternatively, he was afraid that being even indirectly involved in her sister's death would cause Anna to hate him (which was likely to happen). This would ruin his plan to marry Anna in order to become king]].
- There is also that at that point he didn't know if Anna was even alive, and since they haven't actually married yet, he needs Elsa if he's going to be king.
- Considering how socially deprived and emotionally unstable Anna was on the day of the coronation, she would have been even more likely to collapse into the closest (apparent) loved one's arms and they would be running to the altar.
- Though wouldn't putting him in charge while Anna is gone be enough for him to claim to be the legal heir?
- No. At minimum, it would probably be enough to give Hans a place in the coming succession dispute, but it wouldn't bypass the dispute entirely the way a marriage would.
- Hans seems to have the idea that Elsa that too distant and antisocial to be interacted with on an informal level, yet alone wooed.
- Though 'saving her from herself' would have been an excellent first step toward winning her over.
- He wasn't yet in a position where her death would benefit him. Anna was missing, possibly dead, and if the throne became vacant before he had a solid claim to it, all his scheming would be in vain. Therefore, he needed to keep Elsa alive at least until he knew what had happened to Anna.
- Something happening to Elsa any time following his engagement to Anna would be opportune. The reigning queen would be gone, and the spare he would marry would ascend the throne.
- In short, killing Elsa was Hans' Plan B (or possibly his Plan C, D, or E), and when he confronted her in the ice palace, he was still on Plan A (to bring her back alive and convince her to undo the endless winter).
- Elsa was obviously the source of the winter. She may or may not have been able to consciously control the weather. Elsa could not have just "turned it off". But if it is assumed she had control over her ice powers, she either would have never caused the freak storm in the first place because she was benevolent or would be too malevolent and cruel to be reasoned into halting the winter.
- But Hans couldn't have known that at the time, and he didn't decide to kill Elsa until he did know.
- But Hans did know whether Elsa is either benevolent or malevolent. If she was benevolent, she would have never caused the storm in the first place. If she was malevolent, there would be no reasoning with her. In reality, Elsa did not know how to stop the winter, and thus any communication was a lost cause in ending the winter.
- That's a False Dichotomy. Accidentally causing the Endless Winter was neither benevolent nor malevolent, and Hans may well have known that. Besides, he needed incontrovertible proof that Elsa was beyond reasoning before he could afford to kill her; and as of the fight in the ice palace, he didn't have it.
- Anybody could presume either Elsa could end the winter or couldn't. If Elsa could, she would be too irrational to convince ending the winter. But, she couldn't. Therefore, in either case, any effort would be in vain.
- Hans is nothing if not a Villain with Good Publicity, and he would get more Good Publicity for Defrosting Ice Queen (or at least trying to) than for outright killing her without even trying to Defrost her. And he WAS successful in dissuading her from killing the Weselton soldiers, which proved that she could possibly be reasoned with.
- Hans did not have any proof either way later and still forged ahead with his regicide scheme.
- Elsa outright told Hans that she couldn't undo it; so yes, he did have proof.
- Hans did not have proof that getting rid of Elsa would seize the winter.
- It's also possible that at one point, Hans worried that killing her might make things worse: that might suggest that other magical beings killed in the past have brought on a Taking You with Me which would have left him in the blast zone.
- Hans had no problem with trying to slice at Elsa later on the fjord, when things were already as bad as they could possibly get.
- Hans wants to rule the kingdom. At that moment in time Elsa had refused to give her blessing to the engagement, Anna herself was missing and possibly dead and the only claim he had was that Anna left him in charge. However, if he could gain Elsa's approval or stop the eternal winter (preferably both) then his claim becomes much stronger when he makes his real move. And it works, when Elsa sees what she's done and tries to flee for good she tells Hans to take care of her sister, essentially giving him her blessing, which would have been great except he'd already faked a wedding with the presumed dead Anna. Basically he was working all the angles to get a claim on the throne until he had a solid grip on it.
- Prince Hans already was in Arendelle's good graces. He was engaged to the princess, acted as leader in a time of emergency, provided provisions to improve the welfare of the population, and led a mission to retrieve the last bloodline connection to the monarchy. His claim was solid enough at that point. While such a daring rescue would further his reputation, in order to complete his plan, he needed Elsa gone, preferably dead. Weighing the two options, letting the queen get assassinated would clear the path to the throne while the former choice would only delay the deed. Staging the accident is a lot more riskier than just letting someone else straight-up shoot the queen to death.
- It was not always assumed in folklore that the No Ontological Inertia trope applied. Instead, especially if something was a "curse" then it might not end with the death of the caster. So Hans could not really be sure that the snow and ice encasing Arendelle would vanish if he killed Elsa. The cold might not get any worse, or the curse might just keep running in perpetuity. He needed to find out, and when Elsa admitted that she was not directly controlling it, yet it was still getting steadily worse, Hans decided that killing her was the only option.
- It can be presumed by the time Hans organized the expedition mission to the North Mountain, Elsa could not or would not stop the eternal winter. If she could subside the freak weather by her own will, she would have unless if she were really a malevolent sorceress, which, in that case, no amount of persuasion would realistically convince such a terrible person otherwise.
- And in that case, no amount of persuasion would realistically convince such a terrible person not to kill the Weselton soldiers. Remember, Hans had just succeeded in doing just that. Letting them kill her immediately after successfully convincing her not to kill them would have been... odd.
- "Allowing" Elsa to die would be contradictory of the message Hans conveyed to his army, but it would be necessary to achieve his ultimate goal of attaining the throne.
- Obtaining the throne would mean nothing if Hans was clearly seen as a villain, or even if there was any doubt at all about his heroic image. (Otherwise, he could have just stayed in Arendelle after Anna left him in charge.) And Hans is second only to Xanatos himself in playing the Xanatos Gambit, so he probably knew that he would have additional opportunities where killing Elsa wouldn't look nearly as villainous as it would have looked at that moment.
- Hans is an opportunist. He proposed to Anna within hours of meeting & later revealed his underhanded plan to her when he did not need her. It is not characteristic of him to inhibit an action that would progress his plans.
- He wasn't sure that killing Elsa immediately after convincing her not to kill the Weselton soldiers would progress his plans, though. For example, there was still that blizzard that she had caused; for all he knew (and this is documented under Fridge Horror), killing her wouldn't put an end to it, and convincing her to end it shouldn't have been any harder than convincing her not to kill the Weselton soldiers.
- Hans knew that he would have to eliminate Elsa to inherit the throne. He could never be king without her gone (y'know, unless he married her, but that was not going to happen).
- More of a Wild Mass Guess than anything, but Hans could have had feelings for Elsa (insomuch as Hans could have 'feelings'- he does appear to be expediency-sexual), had a shred of hope his original plan would come to fruition, but when Elsa remained aloof of any social implications even after he confronted her with a rather personal one-on-one discussion, he completely abandoned plan A.
- The novelization, A Frozen Heart, confirms that Hans did not actually want to kill Elsa, at least at the time; his plan was to depose her without actually killing her, and he only resorted to an attempt on her life when he had no other options. Sparing her life at the ice palace is perfectly in line with that plan.
Troll memory magic! How doth ye work?
- So to cure Anna, Grand Pabbie removed memories of Elsa's magic and told the parents not to reveal Elsa's powers. Therefore when Anna witnessed Elsa creating ice, how come she is not affected by it at all? Or is it because the curse had passed already?
- This may have been a case of Plausible Deniability. If even Anna doesn't know the secret, it's less likely it will get out before Elsa can get control of it. Though naturally this fails.
- I took it as more her being protective of Anna, and trying to give her a chance to explain it, not to mention trying to assuage the situation so no one got hurt. Basically, smooth it all out now, then we can think about freaking out.
- The bigger question: why exactly is "no memories of magic" a cure for magically inflicted frostbolt? It's one thing if it like, "oh, you're injured by ice magic, here's a warmth spell that will take care of it, or here's a Holy Light spell that will cure it." Magic designed to heal/oppose used to remove negative detrimental effects of other magic, fine. But what does memories have to do with anything? Does Troll magic just run on Equivalent Exchange or something?
- I doubt it was a requirement for the cure so much as an effort to keep Anna from blabbing about Elsa's powers or bugging her for a repeat performance. Well-meaning, but not the best idea.
- Anna's first injury could also have been a mind-based counterpart to the freezing of her heart later in the movie. The cure in the latter case was metaphorical, an act of true love, rather than some physical thing. Possibly it was the same the first time; Elsa's misaimed spell hurt Anna's mind, not her body, and removing her memories allowed the trolls to "change her mind," and heal the damage.
- This makes sense to me too. Note the way Pabbie said, "The heart is hard to change, but the head can be persuaded."
- Indeed, it might be like the effect of the Magic Mirror shard in the original story — if you get a shard of it in your eye or heart, you can't see any of the good in the world, and you become bitter and cruel. A strike to the head with ice magic might not kill Anna, but leave her with a "cold" attitude towards the world, and removing her memory of the strike and of the magic is the best way to counter that.
- Alternately, it's possible that Grand Pabbie was simply concerned that Anna remembering, "MY SISTER ALMOST KILLED ME!" might be more trauma than a young child could take, and might ruin their relationship. How would Elsa have turned out if Anna had grown up harboring "My sister is a monster" thoughts? If Anna grew up in fear of Elsa, that pretty much would change everything.
- Ah, but just because Anna is younger doesn't mean she'd behave like the Duke of Weselton did later on. A more likely outcome, had her memories not been erased, MIGHT be: Anna would feel bad about jumping off the snowpiles too fast, and even if it meant continuing to endanger herself, would persist in trying to be as close to Elsa as possible (the song "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" even shows this, at least the "Anna would persist in trying to be as close to Elsa as possible" stuff, that is). Grand Pabbie was thus more likely concerned that Anna would take another hit, this time to a less curable part of herself, which is of course what ends up happening thirteen years later.
- I interpreted it as them needing to remove the ice magic from her head, which included the magic in her memories.
- While not clear at first, it became rather self-explanatory after Elsa accidentally froze Anna's heart. When they were children, Elsa froze her mind. Basically, what Grand Pabbie's magic was tell the mind "No, you weren't frozen. You're fine". The heart, however, is not so easily convinced.
- In fact that could be the reason why Grand Pabbie alters the memories to say that the snow was natural: if Anna's brain 'knows' that ice-magic is impossible, she won't be hurt by it, because the head (unlike the heart) is logical like that.
So who was boss?
- So who ran Arendelle during the time period in between the King and Queens' deaths and Elsa becoming eligible for regency? And how long was it? It looks like it might have been maybe 5 years tops. (Anna and Elsa didn't look very young when their parents left.) Is Arrendele a relatively small city-state that could run itself until they work with international trade?
- Actually, "regency" means that a minister or another member of the royal family rules in the stead of an underage heir to the throne, guiding them and helping them grow into their role (ideally). This is probably exactly what happened; we just never met whoever ruled as Regent.
- In fact when you think about it - Elsa is 21 when the movie takes place, and the parents died three years ago, meaning she would have been 18. If the history books mean anything, and Arendelle government works like real governments did in 19th century Europe, Elsa could have been old enough to rule in her own right for those three years, she just didn't have a coronation until three years later, for whatever reason. Similar to Queen Elizabeth II - she ascended to the throne in 1952, but didn't have a coronation until 1953. Moreover, Alfonso XI of Castile, for example, was declared an adult, and began to reign himself being 15 years-old, in 1325, but was not crowned until 1332. Therefore, Elsa might have gone through all the legal processes of becoming queen, and delayed the most showy part of being coronated as long as possible by claiming to still be grieving, or that she was too busy, and so on.
- Going off the above, there's actually a line in the movie that could be interpreted as this. As the camera tracks through Arendelle and is approaching the castle right before "For the First Time in Forever," one of the dignitaries says, "Oh, me sore eyes can't wait to see the queen and the princess!". That phrase could be interpreted two ways: it could mean "Elsa officially becomes Queen of Arendelle today". However, I'd be more inclined to think that if Elsa was just becoming a ruler of her own, the dignitary's line would be "can't wait to see the new queen and the princess!" The alternate interpretation of that line is that Elsa was already Queen of Arendelle and had been ruling in her own right for the three years since her parents' deaths.
- Elsa seemed to have made it her plan to put it off until she was certain that she was entirely done grieving because having a large public event while she's emotionally compromised (also the sort of state she's most likely to create a huge embarrassing ice display in) would probably be a disaster just waiting to happen. Come to think about it, there's Fridge Horror there: if it hadn't been for Hans trying to put the moves on Anna, that day would probably have gone smoothly and Elsa could have ended up holding in that 'eternal winter' thing for YEARS, which could have had even more disastrous consequences when something happened to reveal her powers.
- 18 hasn't always been considered the age of majority (it still isn't in some places—in Japan it's 20). During the 19th Century when the movie takes place, it actually would have been 21.
- It depends where you are, in the UK for example it was eighteen. In 1837 William IV died about a month after Victoria's eighteenth birthday so there was no regency. Under the terms of the Regency Act 1830, the eleven year old heir Vicoria's mother the Duchess of Kent would have been regent, if William had produced a legitimate heir, Queen Adelaide would have been heir. The Minority of Successor to Crown Act 1751 had provided for Augusta, Dowager Princess of Wales to be her son's regent if George III succeeded his grandfather before he turned eighteen. The Regency Act 1840 provided for Albert to act as regent for his children until they reached eighteen. The Regency Act 1937 established general rules for regencies rather than dealing only with the current potential minority, it also set the age of majority for the monarch at eighteen. Arendelle theoretically could have something similar.
- Word of God has stated that there was originally a regent character who ruled the kingdom until Elsa's coronation, but he was ultimately cut from the film because it was determined that he was unimportant to the overall story.
- I recall seeing one fanfic that suggests Elsa ruled in her parents' stead as regent to her own parents' reign for the three years prior to the coronation; in other words, she was queen, but couldn't change any laws her parents had laid down.
- If there was a regent, did they know about Elsa's powers? Even if King Agdar and Queen Idun were trying to keep Elsa's powers a secret, they'd need to commission someone to look after Elsa once they died, and that's assuming that the theory that they were going to tell Anna the truth about Elsa's magic when they thought Anna had come of age, but died before that happened, still holds up. How could the regent do their job, if they didn't know about Elsa? Or did Elsa manage to keep her powers a secret for three years and the regent never thought it was suspicious that the royal palace was closed off?
- Given Elsa's 21 years old when her coronation is held, she would have been 18 years old, a young adult, at the point when her parents died, so it's likely that the regent's functions would have been limited to running the kingdom. As for her behavior, that would definitely seem strange, but there are a lot of non-magical explanations that someone who was in contact with Elsa, like Kai or Gerda, could have given (including grieving for her dead parents). And, since Elsa was the heir apparent to the throne, it wouldn't be hard for her to develop not just a paranoid fear of losing control of her powers and hurting Anna, but also an obsession with the possibility of being assassinated by an usurper, even moreso since she has ice magic and there could potentially be a lot of people who might not like the idea of Arendelle being ruled by a sorceress-queen. Yes, this is a Disney movie, but the Duke of Weselton's obviously prejudiced views of sorceress-queens and Hans's entire attempted coup, makes it seem likely that political assassinations are far from inconceivable. In fact, the fear that Elsa might be targeted for assassination because of her powers might provide an additional explanation for why Elsa's parents kept her powers a secret from everyone in the castle (Anna included) and in Arendelle except for a few trustworthy servants who could be sworn to secrecy.
- I read a fanfic called Secret Passages with a scene that partially is the source for this theory, where Elsa complains about having to keep her powers secret from Anna:
Princess Elsa: Look, I'm so, so tired of keeping this secret. It's too much for me. What is so bad if Anna knows about my powers? Or just people in general, for that matter? I agree that I need to stay away from everyone because it's not safe, but I'm sick of the clandestine part of it. Why can't I go downstairs late at night after everyone has gone to bed, for example? No one would be around, so that would be safe.King Agdar: Elsa…be reasonable. What would our citizens think of the crown princess having ice powers she can't control? You have to concede that's a bad idea. They would call you names or worse[, they might try to kill you].
- If there was a regent, why didn't Anna think to put them in charge instead of Hans? Or would they have left once the coronation ceremony was over? I know this is reaching into WMG. but it's a rather important plot point.
- If there was a regent, the regent was either away from Arendelle, or passed away from natural causes shortly before Elsa's coronation.
Did Kristoff know that Anna was the little girl he once saw healed by the trolls?
- While Jennifer Lee has specified that Kristoff does know Anna is the girl he saw Grand Pabbie heal, she never goes into specifics as to how much he knows. However, it's clear that this is a question open to interpretation. Although it strikes me that the evidence suggests Kristoff did know. For instance:
- Kristoff was a little kid when he witnessed the healing and it appears that he was far enough away that it was difficult to hear (Bulda asks him to be quiet, so she can hear better.) However, even if Kristoff didn't hear Grand Pabbie's conversations, and he didn't realize at the time that he was seeing the royal family of Arendelle, he spent 13 years growing up with the trolls. In those 13 years, the chances are very strong that Kristoff asked about what he saw that night, and learned the truth. So he may have known all along that Elsa had ice powers, even if he himself thought it was a little far-fetched and out-there.
- Assuming Kristoff did know, Grand Pabbie probably told him, and emphasized how it was important for them to keep his knowledge of Elsa's powers a secret, because there is the potential that people might try to hurt Elsa if they found out about her powers. This wouldn't be much of a problem for Kristoff to do, because, as an ice harvester and mountain man, I don't think he spends a lot of time in the villages, so he wouldn't have had the occasions to talk to people a lot, and he doesn't strike me as the kind who likes to gossip.
- When Anna's heart is frozen and her hair starts turning white, Kristoff realizes that he needs to get her to the trolls. While it's clear that Kristoff's decision is based on the fact that Grand Pabbie probably knows best what to do to solve the situation, it's ambiguous whether or not he'd also remembered Grand Pabbie saving Anna's life 13 years prior.
Freeze time you so wonky!
- This may be obvious, but if Anna's sacrifice is what broke her curse, shouldn't she have been healed before her whole body froze? Unless there's some Rule of Drama in effect...
- I assumed that it was Elsa crying over the sacrifice that was the act of love required. This would fit with the source material, where a shard of mirror comes out of Kai's eye when he cries due to Gerda's expression of love for him.
- Chalk it up to Rule of Drama and Rule of Cool.
- I saw it as her making the sacrifice at just the right moment. Exactly as the freezing was complete, but at the point when the curse could still be broken. A perfect in-between. Which, yes, is Rule of Drama and Rule of Cool.
- Another interpretation is that Anna started thawing from the inside (heart magic and all that) and it simply took a while for her body to thaw completely. If memory serves, in the opening scene, Anna wasn't instantly healed — it took a few seconds.
- Which makes some sense, since her chest was the first (external) part of her body to thaw.
- Another thing to note is the shockwave which knocked back Hans after the freeze. None of Elsa's magic has had shockwaves included. Wind yes, shock, no. The shockwave was the beginning of Anna's thaw.
- You can also see it as that, because it was actually Elsa's frozen heart that needed mending, it wasn't until Anna was frozen that Elsa realized how much Anna loved her and vice versa. So, it was only after Anna was frozen that the full magic could be completed when Elsa openly and fully expressed her love for Anna. When she heard Anna had died, she blamed herself because she knew she loved Anna but thought Anna only cared out of sisterly duty.
- True love, after all, requires reciprocation.
- It does take a whole ton of mental devotion to willingly put oneself in front of an incoming sword and stay there. It was only when there was no longer a possibility for Anna to back away out of fear that it was truly certain how much she loved Elsa.
- Besides, the curse wearing off at the instant Anna stepped in front of the blade would not have made for a very happy ending (if that were the case, well, what would have happened is a scenario that was listed under the Fridge Horror page). Anyway, the freezing took some time to take place. It didn't start instantly, so the thawing needed some time as well. You can also interpret Anna's last breath as being actually the thawing beginning.
Why did Elsa build Olaf?
- Why did Elsa create Olaf during her musical number and then just leave him there? She was obviously surprised to see him walking and talking later when Anna brought him with her, so she didn't plan on bringing him to life. And why did he wander off instead of following her to the castle? Also, if he and Elsa never spoke until then, how did Olaf know who she was and what his name was supposed to be?
- On that note, how did Olaf know what summer is, but not what heat does to frozen things?
- Not trying to jump to conclusions, but did you miss the first 5 minutes of the movie or something? In the very beginning of the movie, when the two sisters were kids, there was a brief scene where we see them build Olaf on the ballroom floor. This was the same snowman that Elsa unconsciously brought to life later in the film. Anna was surprised when first encountering him because he was a long lost childhood memory suddenly brought to life, while Elsa was surprised to see him for the same reason plus the fact that was probably the moment she realized she has the power to bring life to snow. In "Let it Go", you can see her build Olaf, but he was just lifeless at the time and she just assumed she was building the same normal snowman just to test her powers again. Olaf probably came to life much later and was probably too far away from Elsa's castle to know anything about it. From being with Anna, Olaf knew about her sister Elsa before being formally introduced with her.
- To answer the second question, it's simply because of his innocence and never experiencing Summer for himself. He's just heard about this thing called Summer (No idea where he heard about Summer in the first place) and no one told him about what heat does to snow.
- I assumed Olaf wanted to know what summer was like and knew about what it was because, y'know, he was built in summer. I also thought that he was built totally subconsciously, since Olaf was one of the last things she built with her magic back when she obviously had control over it (I mean, it's kinda obvious that that wasn't the first time she turned the ballroom into hers and Anna's own personal winter playground, and since it wasn't always frozen over as we see when she enters it and since natural heat doesn't melt her snow, she had control over it at one point.)
- Natural heat melts her snow just fine, as Olaf demonstrates with the fireplace.
- Well, Olaf was given basic intelligence to speak so I would assume that includes other basic facts. He might know that a donkey is some sort of weird animal but he hasn't seen it so he doesn't know what it truly looks like.
- Elsa builds Olaf when she's in a good mood for the first time in years, and since her powers seem to be enhanced and more controllable when she's in a better mood, it's good fairytale logic (this is a story about a magic witchy ice queen, remember) that the first thing she'd build with her new sense of power and freedom would be a snowman so perfect that he came to life.
- Olaf represents the love and good times of her childhood with her sister, the last time she felt happy (he's the snowman they made at the time). It's not a coincidence that he's the first thing she created when feeling truly happy and free again.
- Following the idea above, Olaf is the snowman Anna has begged Elsa to build over the past 13 years as seeing in "Do you want to build a snowman". Now without fear of using her powers, she builds Olaf, maybe thinking in Anna and the good old times they spend together.
- A character defined by Power Incontinence doing something unintentionally isn't that surprising.
- On another note, where did the coal and sticks come from? Elsa's ice/snow powers could create an inanimated Olaf of course, but where did she get the sticks and coal? When she builds him as a child, even a carrot appears.
- Seeing as the little girls obviously do this regularly, they probably had the accessories stashed somewhere. Elsa makes the snow but the girls build Olaf by hand, and we see Elsa 'dressing' him with the coal buttons and little twigs for arms. So it's probably mundane coal and twigs that they found in a fireplace (and those will be literally everywhere in the castle; this is before modern air conditioning was invented), and for Olaf's nose, Elsa probably swipes it from the kitchen and hides it in the nearest coal bucket ready for use whenever she and Anna do create their late night winter playground (which as implied does appear to happen very often).
The exact source of Elsa's magic
- Why was Elsa born with magical powers? The promotional materials say something about a prophecy, but there's no explanation given in the movie. She was just born with them, and that was that.
- Being born with magical abilities is a fairly standard fantasy trope. Heck, an entire class in Dungeons & Dragons, the sorcerer, is based on it. Maybe the royal bloodline has fairy blood in it, or maybe one of their ancestors was a demigod.
- To expand on this, Pathfinder actually added in magical bloodlines that grant extra powers based on what kind of magical blood you have. Elsa is a classic example of a Cold Elemental Sorcerer, meaning that somewhere in the royal bloodline, raw elemental magic was introduced.
- Not everything in a story needs an explanation. We can have a Multiple-Choice Past to explain Elsa's powers.
- I thought that it fit into the moral of the story better — Elsa has to learn to live with her powers. People are randomly born with things that may make them act like she was. If you add an explanation, it would defeat the purpose of being yourself — we may as well add an explanation for homosexuality or the like.
- This promotional aspect might possibility been a product of What Could Have Been, as the story did used to feature a prophecy.
- The troll in the beginning asks if Elsa was born with the magic or cursed. Given that Rapunzel is in the movie, there's a certain amount of "magic is just part of the world" going on.
- So if magic is part of the world, then why were her parents so concerned with not letting people know about it?! Couldn't the king have sought a sorcerer to teach Elsa how to control her power? Why do the other nobles automatically assume Elsa is evil, without giving her the benefit of the doubt? A lot of this plot seems really contrived.
- Because unlike say the Light Magic like Rapunzel had, ice and snow isn't always good. It can be incredibly destructive, as Elsa and all of Arendelle learned the hard way.
- Because they misinterpreted Grand Pabbie's words that "Fear would be her enemy" to mean that people would be afraid of her, hence her powers should be concealed for her own protection. And really, it's mainly the Duke of Weselton throughout who fears her evil, evil magic - most of the other nobles are just shocked.
- As mentioned, Rapunzel and Eugene are in the movie. Remember what happened to Rapunzel? It's not out of the realm to imagine the same happening to Elsa.
- Just because something exists in the world does not mean that people are tolerant of it existing. To offer a comparison, homosexuality exists in our world, but that has not always equalled a tolerant attitude towards homosexuality. Elsa's parents were concerned about people finding out about Elsa's magic because they were afraid that people would think that she was some kind of evil witch and hate and persecute her for her powers. And really, given how quick people were to believe that she was some kind of evil witch (albeit mainly because Elsa panicked and fled without actually trying to offer an explanation — not entirely without reason) to the point of locking her up and trying to kill her, it turns out they weren't entirely wrong to fear this kind of reaction.
- One of the main reasons people have hated on things that are different is because of how they could be a potential threat. Elsa is outright dangerous at that point, the fact that her parents limited the staff after she became considered such is a sign that they weren't big on hiding the truth when her powers were benign. The "no people ever" rule was designed to be a temporary measure until Elsa got control, only she never did and began to look at life as if she never would.
- Also, the Tangled/Frozen universe HAS magic, but it is extremely rare. It's not one-sorcerer-per-adventuring-party, it's rare-to-the-point-of-mythical magic. Note that the king and queen taught Elsa to hide her magic and control it with Stoicism instead of trying to find Elsa a teacher, which would be the logical solution in even a rare-magic setting.
- Even if magic is just rare, something like what's seen in the movie might be an extreme aberration. With Rapunzel's magical abilities, she is able to keep a person alive for a while, potentially extending that to an indefinite period if they have regular access to her abilities. While that's obviously more than just a nifty trick, Elsa's ability to unconsciously drag an entire country into a potentially never-ending winter, to build an enormous ice palace, and to create living, intelligent beings is on a whole other level. People might fear her abilities because, even if they've seen magic before, her powers are just a step below those of a Reality Warper. If she were a less benign character, a conscious effort on her part could potentially kill millions of people through direct hypothermia and through famine.
- Could be that Elsa's a Conduit.
- Think of it this way: what would have happened if Elsa didn't possess her powers? Her parents die, she becomes Queen, Hans appears and marries her (or Anna, followed by creating an "accident" for Elsa) then Arendelle falls under the power of a malevolent, villainous king who is then succeeded by a long line of malevolent kings/queens. So, if you're any sort of "greater power" in the Disney universe - what do you do? Disney's often about greater good coming from bad or sacrificing lesser good. To quote Spock: "have faith...that the universe will unfold, as it should". Or to quote Gandalf: "there are other powers in this world beside the will of evil...". Elsa was supposed to get her powers. Her powers were a gift that changed the natural course of the universe for the better. Her powers weren't just a gift to her, they rescue all of Arendelle from Hans' plot, sacrificing Elsa and Anna's happy childhoods in exchange for the kingdom's ultimate freedom. The power of good is just sneaky that way - all convoluted and subtle, but it knows what it's doing.
- The answer to the original question, of course, is the X-Gene.
- It was confirmed in an interview with Jennifer Lee that it was going to be explained by a troll narrator that every time there's a certain alignment of Saturn, a child is born with ice magic 1,000 years later, but she eventually decided to just say she was born with them and leave it at that to avoid it sounding too complicated. In a way, since Elsa was born on some alignment of Saturn, it actually makes a lot of sense. Why? Well, what are Saturn's rings made of? Rock and ice. Even more significant, what is one of Saturn's moons? Enceladus, a world covered entirely in ice◊. Probably one of the few times a specific planetary alignment actually makes sense. (As for the "prophecy" thing mentioned in the original question, the prophecy was about the whole "A ruler with a frozen heart" thing and stuff about a "sword sacrifice", so I think this can still be stated as the confirmed circumstances.)
- Considering it draws from norse mythology, it might be that the ancestry of Arendelle's royal family traces back to the Frost Giants of the legend, and sometimes a member of the family is born with stronger giant blood, bestowing him/her with power over the Frost.
Anna, you didn't think that one through, did you?
- Okay, so even though Anna knows for a fact that Elsa's powers are triggered when she gets scared or stressed out, she decides that it would be a good idea to tell Elsa that she accidentally trapped her hometown in an eternal winter. What exactly did she expect that Elsa's emotional response to that news would be?
- Actually Anna doesn't understand how Elsa's powers work, not in the slightest, because of the trolls erasing her memories. Though that doesn't explain why she thought it was a good idea to keep insisting she come home when snow started blowing around the room.
- When has Anna ever paid attention to the details? This is the girl who was going to marry a man she just met, rushed out into the wilderness without properly preparing (Honestly, she was lucky to have stumbled upon Wandering Oaken's Trading Post & Sauna), and threw a snowball at a giant snowman when Kristoff specifically told her not to do.
- Because a) Anna had had her memories of the childhood accident altered, so she didn't know her presence was especially upsetting for Elsa; b) she hadn't seen how immediately dangerous Elsa's powers could be; eternal winter won't kill you on the spot, and during the party scene, Elsa's ice spikes didn't hurt anyone. They just sent a message of "Get away from me!". C) she wasn't insisting Elsa come home at that point, she was trying to calm her down ("you don't have to be afraid", "we can work this out together", "don't panic"). It would have been smarter to back off and let Elsa get over the initial rush of panic, yes, but there is no explanation required for why touchy-feely and kinda ditzy Anna wanted to be close to her panicking and vulnerable sister.
- To answer the first point, she saw Elsa's powers go off when she was freaked out at the castle, so she knows they respond to Elsa's emotions.
- Not necessarily- sure, Elsa's outburst in the ballroom looked like she'd done it because she lost her temper- but not necessarily like it was totally involuntary. Elsa's horrified body language could have read as instant regret at what she'd done in anger, without anyone realising that was total Power Incontinence (after all, getting so angry that you hit someone- even if you'd never normally be violent- doesn't mean you have no control of what your hands do).
- Would it really be better to delay telling Elsa about Arendelle's situation, whatever the risk? When Elsa is the only one who might be able to help?
- Yeah, I pretty much agree with the above that Anna had to explain because it was a time-sensitive problem. Also, Anna clearly expected Elsa's emotional response to be exactly what it was. She's stalling and visibly cringing when she explains the eternal winter to Elsa. It seems like the issue was that Anna only realized Elsa didn't know about the eternal winter during their conversation in the castle (when Elsa said, "No, Anna, I belong here, alone, where I can be who I am, without hurting anyone". Anna's dialogue in the song that follows does seem like she initially assumed Elsa knows about the problem but is too scared to come back and/or fix it), so she had like thirty seconds to figure out how to explain it tactfully, and failed to do so before her mouth got ahead of her brain and she blurted it out.
- Anna went up there assuming Elsa would be able to reverse the winter with a snap of her fingers. She thought Elsa could control her powers at that point. She didn't realize that Elsa had no idea how to thaw her own ice. Either she had thought Elsa already knew about the frozen kingdom or else she had to reluctantly break the news to her then and there.
- Anna's motive is largely a selfish one. She finally knows what's wrong, and she thinks that means that now she can be in her sister's heart (and in her space, through the door) and that will fix everything, because for Anna, that WILL fix everything she thinks is wrong. But Elsa's problem is more complicated. Only Elsa can solve it, and Anna's *desire* for her to fix things isn't enough motive for Elsa to break through her fear. Desire still leaves room for Elsa's fear, fear of letting Anna and everyone down. It isn't until Anna unconditionally loves Elsa that Elsa has room to understand what she needs to do.
- Anna knew exactly what Elsa's response would be. Pay attention to her face during that entire scene; she's very reluctant to actually tell Elsa what's going on in Arendelle once it becomes apparent that Elsa has no idea, keeps repeating the word "deep" while finding the strength to say "snow", and visibly winces as she finally says that word. She wanted to break it to her more gently, but Elsa kept playing the, "Everybody's safe and fine if you leave me alone, so I'm kicking you out of my ice palace and you will never get another chance at this if you don't blurt it out now!" card. She had to say it before Elsa slammed the door in her face, or nobody ever would.
- Really, Anna must have figured out sooner that Elsa didn't know. While the two were talking before Olaf came in, Elsa said, "No, Anna, I belong here, alone. Where I can be who I am... without hurting anybody." And the look on Anna's face as she says, "Actually, about that-." clearly states that it had to have dawned on her. The whole purpose of the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever" was most likely to stop Elsa from pushing her sister away again long enough for Anna to tell her what's happening in Arendelle.
- Anna's also very young and naive and doesn't know Elsa very well. When she first set out she didn't realize quite what a state of terror Elsa was in- she just thought that Elsa was furious at her, for her behavior with Hans and the ensuing argument. Perhaps only by the time she makes it to Elsa's balcony does Anna seem to get a bit more of an idea that Elsa's problems are a lot worse than she initially thought, but it seems to be what she thought when she first started looking for Elsa.
- In short, the whole thing, can basically be summed up in one word: impulsiveness. Anna simply doesn't think things through. It's a part of her character. Had she taken some time to think, her actions would've likely been wiser, such as shutting up instead of continually talking when her sister is beginning to have a panic attack.
- Anna's plan seems to consist of just calming Elsa down and reassuring her that she's still wanted by her people in Arendelle, on the assumption that she just needs to come home to get it all sorted out. Which isn't entirely stupid, and explains why Anna thought she was the best person to do it and should go up there without backup. It's not even like she was wholly wrong- being there for Elsa did turn out to be the solution, sorta.
- Let's be fair to Anna here, because "you've completely frozen your entire kingdom to the point where everyone's potentially in danger of freezing to death very very soon" is kind of an important element of this situation that has to be addressed at some point sooner rather than later. There's being tactful and walking on thin ice (no pun intended), and then there's ignoring the frozen Elephant in the Room.
Was that really a good idea, Grand Pabbie?
- Why did the troll remove Anna's memories and told Elsa's parents to hide her powers? If people around Elsa knew about her abilities, they would be more careful, they wouldn't force her to take off her gloves and would try to shield her from strong emotions. Yes, they would fear her, but at least chances of accidents (like the one that triggered the plot) would be reduced.
- The trolls are actually kind of stupid and don't explain or think their instructions through very well. This happens later in the movie too, where they don't bother explaining that the source of true love to break a curse doesn't really matter.
- Grand Pabbie explains that Elsa's powers have the potential to be dangerous, and that "Fear will be the enemy." The royals interpret this as meaning others will fear Elsa and she will be in danger until she can control her powers, but it's entirely possible that the troll was really refering to the fear Elsa and her parents had of her own abilities, and warning them not to do ... exactly what they did.
- The "fear will be the enemy" line was followed by Grand Pabbie showing them an image of people fearing Elsa, causing her to be afraid, so it still fits — it's interesting because he's still not altogether that helpful, and in fact the King takes his advice in a much worse way than was probably intended. The Troll Chief recommends hiding the knowledge of her powers to prevent others from fearing her, but the King goes too far and hides the girl away from everyone. He also seems to not actually know the secret to controlling Elsa's powers, either, or else he'd have told them.
- Grand Pabbie does also specifically say that Elsa needs to learn to control her abilities. The problem is that Agdar takes that to mean suppressing them instead of how to use them. If we use a bomb analogy, he thought of it as a Dead Mans Switch that needed to always be pressed instead of Elsa learning about bombs to be able to make pyrotechnics instead of explosives.
- It seems possible that the trolls don't fully understand the situation very well, even if they understand it better than the human characters. Given the apparent age of the map that the king uses to find them (it's written with Scandinavian runes, which suggests that it predates the modern, cosmopolitan Arendelle shown in the film) and the fact that only the elderly Grand Pabbie knows even enough to hand out incomplete advice, it may have been a very, very long time since someone else was born with the same powers that Elsa has. In that case, every one of the trolls who has actually encountered a case like Elsa's could be long dead.
- If Word of God by Jennifer Lee is anything to go by, it has been a very long time—likely 1000 years, in fact, at the least. Apparently a child would be born with ice magic 1000 years after Saturn was in alignment with something, which makes sense because, you know Saturn's rings are part ice and its moon Europa is an entire world made of ice (they just eventually decided to just say she was born with them and nothing else because, to quote Jennifer Lee, "the more you explained the more questions you had about magic and the rules"). And if we assume that that happens to only one child in the world and ice magic isn't genetic, the last one might not have even been anywhere near Arendelle. And according to the Essential Guide, Bulda (Kristoff's adoptive mother) is "700 years young". Assuming that the last child (maybe the original Snow Queen?) was born close to there and encountered the trolls as well, Grand Pabbie is likely the only one we see in the film who encountered the last one.
Why doesn't it work every time?
- If True Love is supposedly what defrosts Elsa's ice, why didn't Anna get defrosted immediately after Elsa accidentally struck her in the beginning, and horrified, immediately rushed to her side? Clearly she showed deep concern and love for her sister (considering the song that they were best friends) and even at that young age, if she's powerful enough to create a ballroom flurry, why shouldn't the opposite be true? Furthermore, even though it was an Act of True Lovenote that ultimately caused the defrost, how did Elsa's love, by itself, defrost the world?
- This is explicitly stated in the movie. An act of true love is for a frozen heart, but changing one's mind (via memories) is required for a frozen mind. Different problem, different cure.
- I interpreted it as Anna had to perform an act of pure love for her to be healed and Elsa realizing that she was truly loved is what let her control her powers.
- This is my interpretation too: if you have a frozen heart, then YOU have to be the one to love. The heart has to thaw itself, it can't be thawed from the outside. It's a wonderful Red Herring in the movie: the trolls' suggestion of a "True Love's kiss" brings to mind Snow White and Sleeping Beauty that were saved by others. Anna saved herself. (A True Love's kiss might have worked, but only because a proper kiss is mutual.) Even in the case of the frozen head, the troll says that the head "can be persuaded" to recover, which suggests that Anna's brain thawed itself, but with the troll's help.
- In response to exhibit A, Perhaps it just took a moment for the magic to take hold? After all, she was FROZEN solid from her act, the magic finally taking over. Perhaps it just took a little bit for her heart to start thawing after such an utter chill? Or perhaps ala Beauty and the Beast, it wasn't until Elsa acknowledged her love for her sister in her embrace that the spell could complete. As for exhibit B, If Elsa's power activation was partially due to her fear, loneliness, and anger, perhaps the blizzard itself was a reaction to this. Thus realizing her love for her kingdom was what helped her thaw it all. Or perhaps she just realized that it was her joy that allowed her to fully control her powers, and thus began the great thaw off of that. After a climax like that, the writers possibly decided that it wasn't that important to dissect.
- Except look at the way Elsa desperately grabbed to her sister after she struck her in the beginning? The way she clings to her fallen body is a pitch perfect mirror to how she clings to her frozen corpse at the end of the film — she clearly showed her love for her sister and was unabashed at hiding it.
- The first time, Elsa's magic struck her in the head. That's the difference. It only needs an act of love when it's her heart.
- Additionally, Elsa's primary emotion when rushing to her sister's side was one of fear and guilt. A junior version My God, What Have I Done?.
- Maybe they needed two things needed to break the curse. One, was the selfless act and two, was that the person needed to acknowledge the act. Anna performed the selfless act and Elsa realized how Anna's sacrifice saved her life. Which is why Anna unfroze right after Elsa started crying all over her. Another example might be when Kristoff was rushing Anna back to Arendelle. Technically, that could count because Kristoff had already fallen for her and was willing to give her up. This should have broken her curse, except Anna didn't acknowledge it as an act of love because she was focused on Hans. Really, if the two had realized they were meant to be sooner, the last 25 minutes might have gone differently.
- But then, wouldn't that completely detract from what a "Selfless Act" is? If Elsa's love for her sister needs to be acknowledged in order for her spell to be broken, it's not a selfless act. If a person needs to perform a selfless act and the other person needs to acknowledge that said person did it, is it still considered entirely act of true love? They're doing it specifically so a person can acknowledge it.
- Ah, but Anna didn't know that she would be healed by doing so. If she was indeed trying to game the laws of magic by performing a "selfless" act in front of her sister, it probably wouldn't have worked, but this was an unintentional result. Anna thought she was running away from her salvation, so in her mind she was choosing her sister over herself.
- She was not only running away from her salvation, she was stepping in front of a blade. She had no way to know she would conveniently be turned into an extra cold sword shattering statue at the exact right moment.
- If we want to get Mind Screw-y here, why wouldn't the parents' love for her daughter have been able to defrost the ice originally either? Going by the first two posters, Power Activation and selfless acts, why wouldn't the parents' deep concern for her daughter, in the history of Elsa being alive, have ever been able to defrost anything? True, one could make the argument that being sheltered wasn't exactly loving, but Elsa understood her parents motivation, definitively showed compassion for their training and was equally torn by their deaths.
- That's slightly incorrect. "True Love" doesn't defrost everything Elsa has frozen over; it thaws a frozen heart. Elsa expanded on that and realized that love allowed her complete control over her powers.
- There are ways to read this without appealing to magical rules. The troll chief says "an act of true love", not *any* act of true love. It wasn't some law of magic that saved Arendelle, just pure matters of the heart. Elsa has been constantly afraid, to some degree, for her entire life since she was 8. However, once Anna turns into an Annasicle, Elsa has nothing left to fear that she cares about anymore; she has done all the worst she ever feared she could do, and even though she condemned Anna to a slow horrible death — even with Anna knowing that fact — Anna never stopped loving Elsa and trying to save her, down to her last frozen breath. Thus, for what could be the first time in 13 years, there's no place for any fear in Elsa's heart — just love for Anna and sorrow at having lost everything that mattered. Through Anna's courage and love, Elsa was able to finally experience and understand having a motivation, a love, of her own strong enough to drive out her fear, allowing the thaw to begin.
- One thing I found rather jarring is why "Some people are worth melting for." didn't work. What Measure Is a Non-Human?, but still...
- Come to think of it, the fact that he keeps talking about love and how it is putting someone else before you means that the scene is probably intentional. Olaf or Krisoff's acts didn't work because it has to be Anna's act of true love.]]
- Guys, you are all missing the point of that entire plot. Her heart freezing is METAPHORICAL as well as literal because she keeps losing and contradicting the kinds of real love she actually has in her life. Up to that point where her heart is frozen, she spends the entire movie thinking it'll be as simple as leaving her one true love back at the palace, finding her sister and, now that she understands her sister was pushing her away to keep her ice powers hidden and not because she didn't like her, the sister she loves so much would listen to her and come back. Then you get to her song reprise with Elsa and Elsa still refuses to come! Picture the end of that scene without ANY magic for a second. Anna is trying to comfort her sister and reassure her and what does Elsa do? She turns and SCREAMS "I can't!" at her. The way she says this, she is MAD. And then right after, she throws Anna out! It is clear by the way Anna reacts this is totally unexpected and she has no idea what to do now, she thought for sure Elsa, her sister who she still loves a lot, would listen to her. And yet even with the frozen heart thing, she survives okay for a pretty long time, getting all the way to the trolls and sitting through an entire musical number without ANY ill effects. It's only When the trolls point out they're marrying her to Kristoff, that she has her first really bad reaction, which makes perfect sense. At that point, she didn't love Kristoff, she was still in love with Hans, so marrying Kristoff would have been a betrayal of love she was being tricked into. And it's only When she has that bad reaction that Grand Pabbie finally appears to help and tells her about the true love thing, so they want to go back to Hans. And then of course, Hans betrays her too.]] These repeated acts of breaking her trust in someone she loved are clearly speeding up the process. After Hans leaves the room, she looks to the fire, but no longer has the strength to get up and start it until Olaf shows up and does it for her. You say 'some people are worth melting for' didn't help but it did, it helped her enough to be able to get out of there and run across the ice to save her sister. Repeatedly throughout the movie people who Anna believed loved her are (to use an appropriate metaphor) LEAVING HER OUT IN THE COLD. Her sister who she loves shut her out and when she finally thinks she knows why, goes to Elsa and gets shut out again when she tries to help, and her fiance who she was willing to brave the wrath of her sister for (Note she says at the first meeting with Hans "If you'd done that to my sister..." meaning she knows Elsa has a temper) and came to begging for help reveals he never really loved her. Anna had been preforming acts of true love the entire MOVIE, what she needed was for someone to preform one for HER, to reassure her she really was loved. She needed someone to 'touch her heart' and stop 'leaving her to the cold'. One of Elsa's lines during "Let It Go" was "You'll never see me cry!" When she's singing about how happy she is to be alone and free and away from everyone including her sister. But when her sister is frozen she does exactly that, crying desperately over Anna's frozen body. THIS is the act of true love that saves Anna, not rescuing Elsa, because someone finally showed Anna they loved her as deeply as Anna loved them. That's why there's a delay, because it's Elsa who breaks the curse by finally regretting having never let Anna in and proving her love, not Anna.
- ^ That. The "True Love" thing is getting blown way out of proportion. To be true love, it has to be reciprocated. Anna demonstrated her love for Elsa by sacrificing herself for her, and Elsa demonstrated her love for Anna by crying over her sacrifice. This was the Act of True Love required to thaw Anna's frozen heart. Their parents' love couldn't thaw Anna's brain because fixing the mind requires a different procedure than fixing the heart. Also, love isn't the key to controlling Elsa's powers, it's the key to thawing them. Elsa demonstrates plenty of control over her powers any time she's onscreen and not under the influence of fear.
You go girl! Wait, Elsa, what are you gonna eat?
- Okay, so Elsa storms off into the wilderness, she feels free, she doesn't have to hide her powers, it's totally awesome, she's never going back, yadayada. But what exactly is she planning to eat out there?
- I would assume she would create food using her powers. Kind've bland having all your food taste like ice, but it's better than starving.
- She'd starve anyway, surely? You can't live on water alone, at least not for more than a few weeks. Perhaps the few weeks would give her some time to figure out campfire cooking, but it seems like it'd be a messy business all around.
- She managed to create sentient life from snow. It shouldn't be too far of a stretch to assume that she can make sustainable ice food.
- Probably it would look like the food Tecna made while lost on Omega Dimension.
- Use the creatures she creates to hunt food for her.
- Or maybe she doesn't need to eat to begin with. She seemingly has no issue with endothermic taxing ("The cold never bothered me anyway"), so maybe she doesn't need energy or nutrients. She is probably like a zombie, only animated by ice magic rather than dark.
- But she can eat and enjoy chocolate. So either she doesn't need to eat, but can do it, she would have had snow beast get food for her, or she planned to starve herself to death. Or you know, she's being irrational and panicked just a little to much, which she did, and didn't think things through. Several times in a row, in fact. Her happiness at being "free" was 1). very sudden, 2). seemly in denial (really, she had NO clue she froze the kingdom and thought no one would come for her), and 3). complete Mood Whiplash. It's not hard to say that she's depressed and sudden "high" periods can end up being temporary. She's happy to be free of the mental restraints, but she's deluding herself into thinking that she's found the perfect solution.
- Maybe she took cooking lessons from Jessie's mom?
- I'd say she just didn't think about it. She wanted to get as far away as possible from people she could hurt or be hurt by, as quickly as possible. I doubt she stopped to think about food, and then after that she's probably still riding the emotional rollercoaster for long enough that it doesn't occur to her before she's brought back to Arendelle.
- Exactly. Despite the triumphant themes of Let It Go, Elsa's new life in the mountains is just as unsustainable as her attempts to bottle up her magic. The only way for her to move forward is to make peace with her powers and the people in her life, as she does by the end.
- Well, she's up there long enough to have gotten hungry if she was going to. The Snow Queen is traditionally a self-sustaining elemental goddess; that may have been Elsa's Final Form.
- Probably not so much. The length of time that that part of the movie takes place over doesn't seem like it's that long (maybe less than a day). The sort of emotions that would come with horrifying yourself by lashing out dangerously at others, followed by being cast out of your own home, and then becoming briefly euphoric from the realization that you no longer need to be afraid of something that's horrified you for most of your life could probably keep you from noticing that you physically needed food for a while. Like others have said, although "Let It Go" is a song with a generally upbeat tempo, it's not exactly her highest point, objectively. It's not so much an actual sustainable plan as it is a reflection of the character's briefly euphoric mental state at the time.
- Really, that's probably the point. "Let It Go", while seeming triumphant, is really a big honking lie in song form (you'll notice that Elsa goes on to contradict most of the lyrics—we do see her cry later in the movie, she does come back, and instead of ignoring the 'storm', meaning her powers, she freaks out over them in the reprise of 'For The First Time In Forever'). It's not really the solution to her problem, and the situation it posits is as untenable as the one she was in before, and the fact that she'll starve if she remains in that position is just the tip of the iceberg.
- Word of God says that Elsa has mental health problems and it's fair to suppose she was having a fairly intense episode in 'Let It Go': either she was too euphoric to be hungry, or felt so invincible that she felt above needing food, or so numb that she was indifferent to the fact that she'd starve up there- in that extreme level of depression the physical sensation of hunger sometimes doesn't automatically trip the distress that should make the person act on it.
- I highly doubt Elsa was in a state of euphoria from the time of "Let It Go" all the way to the time Anna reached her. My guess is either Elsa just didn't feel hungry (maybe she was still a bit stuffed from the party) or would've figured something out if she was. Elsa's actions were impulsive, yes, but she's pretty smart. It's really not too much of a stretch to think she could've survived in that castle.
- In the moment, rather than afterward, her plans were unsustainable and a result of a less-than-lucid state of mind. Under different circumstances (ie., if she hadn't frozen over an entire country), she could have figured out a solution to the more basic problems related to her survival, but those solutions would have been ad hoc rather than planned out from the beginning. The more fundamental problem is less that she didn't plan around food very well and more that she thought that running off into the mountains was a long-term idea in the first place. Obviously someone was going to follow her, and obviously they were going to eventually find the giant ice palace, but she couldn't be troubled by that at the moment. While a euphoric spell is usually pretty brief, the enormous amount of stress that she would have been under would have made things like hunger or sleep seem like more distant issues until they became extreme.
- Anyway, we don't know how she spent the 36 hours or so between building the tower and Anna finding there- she did just run up a huge mountain then cast more magic than even she realised was possible- for all we know that's exhausting and she could have made herself a big snow pillow and slept half that time away.
- The magic probably sustains her much the same way it protects her from freezing to death. Remember, a calorie is a measure of heat generated by something. Normally, Elsa would require a lot of calories just to preserve her body temperature on a mountaintop (especially in that dress). But instead she seems perfectly comfortable. That implies that it is not her metabolism that is keeping her from hypothermia, and she may require little, if any, caloric intake. Eventually she might need some protein, vitamins and minerals. But there are ways she could get those.
- Cinema Snob Reviews Frozen hinted that Elsa might have made ice-based food. Other fanfics seem to support the same theory. I saw another fanfic where Elsa attempted to hunt for berries in between "Let It Go" and Anna's arrival, but retreated when she spotted wolves in the area.
Extra fun sociopathy discussion!
- Is there any solid reason beyond Draco in Leather Pants that is making some fans so averse to calling Hans a sociopath? He fakes emotion, manipulates people, takes joy in the suffering of others, lies habitually, and feels no guilt about his actions. He attempts to outright murder Anna and Elsa twice and attempts to engineer their deaths another half a dozen times and actually goes out of his way to be cruel to Anna when her heart is freezing by explaining his initial evil plan to her, which reveals that none of his prior behavior has been genuinely altruistic. And yet despite all this, there are people who say that we are jumping the gun in using that word because "Word of God hasn't directly confirmed it" or some such nonsense? Do we also need Word of God to tell us that Elsa likes blue or can we just use the fact that we only ever see her wear blue as evidence that she does in fact like blue?
- Calling him a sociopath is just as dickish to him and real sociopaths as calling him autistic or gay or any such other things. "asshole", yes, what he did was the definition of being an asshole. But he could have done all that without being a sociopath, and a different character could be a sociopath without doing a single thing you listed.
- Being a self-centered asshole is one of the defining traits of sociopathy/psychopathy. What's more, his actions go beyond just self-centered assholery into multiple attempted murders and a power grab. It's not a hard logical leap to make.
- Because it's really freaking uncomfortable that every single "charming but dangerous" villain gets slapped with the "oh they must be mentally ill" label. There is an explained motive in text in the form of his ambition to be king, combined with the implication that he was neglected and bullied by his older brothers. He's a person with a messed up home life that has come out of that thinking it's okay to be cruel to people younger or more vulnerable than you. That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't possible for them to be a sociopath, but it's a headcanon, and accusing people who don't agree with it of doing it because they find the villain sexy isn't cool.
- Though Word of God said Hans' brother's treating him badly was true, it doesn't justify his actions. Sociopathy it's a potential alternate explanation (and while it may explain his actions they were still evil). Even if we decide to discard Hans' words about his childhood, I don't think he's lying about wanting to be king, and "ruthlessly power-hungry" does not necessarily mean "sociopath". As I said, you are free to believe your theory, I'm not trying to take that away! But I would suggest that it's not unreasonable to believe in alternate explanations when the text itself provides them, which is what the original post in this thread is arguing.
- Calling having your family, or even just part of your family, literally pretend that you do not exist, for YEARS only a "slightly bad childhood" is a clear sign that you've never had anyone do that to you, nor have you ever met anyone who's been subject to that behaviour. It is absolutely absolutely absolutely emotional abuse.note It is telling somebody that they are worse than nothing, that they would be better off having never existed, and it is incredibly hurtful and psychologically damaging. Personally, I think Hans is an absolutely awful person, but I don't think he's a sociopath. There really isn't any evidence that he doesn't have the ability to feel empathy or anything like that, we just see that he was faking it for one specific person. It's rather pointless to make him a psychopath just because he does terrible things. Humans can be absolutely horrible people while being completely neurotypical, they don't need a mental illness to do it.
- Yes, the spoiler is terrible and would be psychologically damaging, but the only indication it happened are the words of a known liar who was explicitly trying to manipulate someone at the time. (And Word of God.) Hans' childhood is a complete Ambiguous Situation for that reason, as we never get any reliable information about it other than the fact that he has brothers, going off a comment at the end.
- With regards to this, it's fully possible that Hans actually was telling the truth that two-or three of his brothers "pretended that he didn't exist". Think about it - if he has like, over ten older brothers, just imagine the age-gap between him and the oldest. His oldest brother could have possibly been over a decade older than him (or more) and when he's a little kid, is well into adulthood so he simply doesn't have time. Especially if he refers to brothers who may be twins.
- So aside from having all the symptoms, traits, and general behavior patterns, he's not actually a sociopath? There is literally a mountain of character evidence pointing to his being a sociopath. Also HOW IN THE NAME OF CHRIST IS IT INSENSITIVE?! We aren't mocking a handicapped person here, we are identifying a character's mental condition. Hell, Anna pretty much was a victim of emotional abuse (and later physical, though that was entirely unintentional on Hans' part and luckily not successful in hurting Anna due to magic) at the hands of Hans. You could make the case that its more insensitive to casually dismiss the idea that he is a sociopath and trying to assign him a sympathetic Freudian Excuse.
- You can't "identify a character's mental condition" unless you're a doctor. Specifically, their doctor. I'm pretty sure that you aren't Hans' doctor, so why do you feel the need to play Armchair Psychiatrist about it? Isn't it enough to be able to agree that he is objectively a terrible person who does evil things? It takes more to diagnose someone than a single day of observation.
- There seems to be a degree of talking past one another throughout this argument. I can see where people prefer to avoid conflating high-functioning clinical sociopathy with general purpose homicidal assholishness, and that is fair even if the difference to those that are in the way of either come close to being academic. On the other hand, there are those whose objection to the sociopath label is fueled by how much it interferes with the woobification of those so labelled... which does earn the ire of many.
- Bravo good sir/madam for saying what is probably the most sensible thing in this entire argument.
- Hans' casual attitude towards homicide is the clear evidence that he is an actual sociopath, and not just a schemer. He seems almost to enjoy being able to tell Anna (whom he expects to die shortly and thus not reveal anything) about his plan to marry onto the throne, his decision to pursue Anna when Elsa seemed too frigid and the fact that he would have had to wait a little while before murdering Elsa. At no point does he exhibit remorse, or even reticence, over what he is doing. He shows an extreme degree of detachment from the emotional aspect of his plan. Which distinguishes him from, for example, the Duke, who is motivated quite openly by avarice and fear of magic, and demonstrates emotions matching his actions.
- In closing, Hans has the traits of a sociopath and he most likely is one, but the labelling will have to wait until the writers and directors of Frozen confirm or deny it.
- To everyone who believes Hans is a sociopath, you are correct. Jennifer Lee has confirmed he indeed is one.
- If that is the case then Jennifer Lee doesn't know what she is writing about.
- It's been confirmed. Jennifer Lee is the director of the film; it's her character and her story (inspired by/initially based on 'The Snow Queen' by Hans Christien Anderson). Even if it's inaccurate to some real-life sociopaths (not all are the same though they share traits), she intended Hans to be a sociopath and he displays some of the traits, therefore HANS IS A SOCIOPATH, case closed. Everyone trying to put the leather pants on Hans, deal with it.
- From Watsonian Versus Doylist perspective: Watsonian: Hans is either very subtle at deceiving the viewer, or well, not everyone ticks every box of personality disorders. From a Doylist perspective: he's supposed to be The Sociopath but writing someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder (the real psychiatric condition that the Hollywood Sociopath is supposed to have) is extremely difficult and nearly all fictitious attempts at this are inaccurate representations to some degree; Buck and Lee got closer than you'd expect for this kind of film, though. Also, not all sociopaths display their sociopathy to the same degree.
- This argument is closed, it has been so since the moment it became word of God that Hans was in fact a sociopath. If you want to believe in your own head that canon is wrong, then you are welcome to do so. However that doesn't change word of God.
Anna, your hair is odd.
- Is Anna's hair color blonde or red? In the current profile pic here she looks blonde, but in the movie her hair was a really red-blonde?
- If you're talking about the main page pic, that's not Anna, that's Elsa with her platinum blonde hair.
- I'm talking about this◊.
- Maybe it's a case of lighting? Maybe her hair is a bright reddish-blonde but in certain light it looks more red... or maybe the creators fought about her hair like certain three fairies about a colour of a certain dress and we see now the remainders of the battle.
- The linked photo looks strawberry-blond to me, same as in the film itself.
- Seconded. In the picture her hair looks to me to be on the redder side. Monitor differences?
- In a novelization, Anna, describes her hair as strawberry blonde.
How do magic dresses work?
- This has been bugging me: in "Let It Go", when Elsa undergoes her Evil Costume Switch, she forms her new dress using her powers, so it's covering her other dress...but her new one has a slit in the hem, showing her bare legs underneath. What the heck happened to her old dress?
- I figured she just used her ice powers to rip apart the old dress.
- But if that was the case, wouldn't we still see the shreds of the old dress on the floor or something?
- It did notice the bunch of snow that shot off when she changed; perhaps those are frozen bits of the old dress.
- Eh, I'm willing to write it off as "the animators wanted to do a costume change quickly".
- It looks like she turned the old dress into ice to create the new dress.
- Re-watch the video. You can actually see the old one ripping and hear a ripping sound.
- A split skirt is the least of it. While not showing cleavage, her new neckline does dip a lot — from a half turtleneck or collar before — and her sleeves are visibly gone through the translucent sleeves of the new dress.
- It's also very form-fitiing and Elsa no longer had stockings.
How do magic dresses work round II!
- Related to the headscratcher directly above: how DID Elsa create her new clothes? Wearing ice seems rather uncomfortable to me..
- Well, to quote Elsa's song, "The cold never bothered me anyway". Indeed, ice, snow, and cold temperatures don't seem to have any effect on Elsa at all, which, having ice powers, would only make sense she'd be immune to ice-related stuff. So to answer the question, it's entirely possible that her clothes are completely made of ice and snow, but it simply doesn't bother her.
- The question we should be asking is why her ice clothes don't melt. Just because the cold doesn't bother her doesn't mean that she doesn't expel body heat.
- That or it's sort of the same logic behind Olaf's snow cloud at the end, but without a visible cloud.
- See above.
- An application of Required Secondary Powers. Elsa would need to support some kind of magical insulation over her skin to avoid being frostbitten by her own ice. By preventing her body heat from escaping (which is what makes us feel cold), it also prevents the ice around her from being heated. Similar to how you could wear icicles over a coat if you wanted, except the coat is invisible.
- Elsa could have just been using her powers to keep the ice dress frozen. She's more than strong enough to do something like that.
- It's actually entirely possible that she doesn't expel body heat. Notice that in scenes where other characters' breath creates visible steam, Elsa's does not.
- Since Elsa turned summer into winter and the inside of the castle freezes over despite the fact that every fireplace was likely lit, that any ice/snow/etc generated by her magic actually doesn't melt unless Elsa makes it so. The only time this ISN'T the case is the ballroom inside the castle is clearly not frozen anymore, but it's also possible that Elsa's love for her sister and parents began to melt it at some point. Unless Elsa wants her dress to melt, it simply won't. She unfroze Arendelle because that's what she wanted to do, but she didn't want to melt her gown. With love, Elsa can unmelt what she wants of her magic.
- OP here. What I meant was more along the lines of "How did Elsa create cloth out of ice?" But after reading the responses, I guess her dress could literally be ice, even if that seems a bit implausible.
- I always imagined that if you looked at Elsa's ice-dress under a microscope, it would be more like chainmail than regular fabric, with tiny little ice ringlets. Combine this with my WMG that Elsa can magically turn anything into water-ice even if it isn't made of water, and her Required Secondary Powers keeping her from getting cold (either she has an unusual metabolism, or else is insulated by magic), and I think that's a somewhat reasonable (or at least internally consistent) explanation for everything about the ice-dress, including its creation, its composition, and how she can wear it.
- Different interpretation here: if Elsa can create life from snow, surely she can create cloth, skates, etc. from snow even if it's not strictly snow. That is, if she can do things to snow that snow usually can't do (be alive), she can make it into other things (cloth, metal) and still have it be within the realm of her powers.
- Her power is not merely over snow and ice, but over all things winter.
- Alternate interpretation: I always saw it as her constantly "updating" the snow/ice dress as it melts off, like a passive "ice armor" spell in an RPG that just happens to be much thinner and prettier than the usual pauldrons of doom/chainmail (chainfrost?) bikinis.
How do magic dresses work round III?
- Wouldn't it extremely awkward for someone to hug Elsa when she's wearing that ice dress? Elsa may not mind it, but it must be like hugging a big block of soft ice because that's... well... pretty much what you're doing.
- When Anna hugs her just after her Disney Death, she's still wearing her winter gear, and it was still freezing cold outside anyway, so she probably didn't notice. After that, Elsa presumably had a line of regular cloth dresses made in the style of the dress she designed herself and obviously liked, and she's wearing one in the final scene (before which enough time passed for a custom-made sled for Kristoff to be commissioned, made, and delivered).
- I don't think Elsa planned on hugging anyone when she moved to her ice castle..., and if she had, it probably wouldn't have been the first thing on her mind as her dress was made.
- And when Anna hugs Elsa at the end, she certainly doesn't look like she just hugged a block of ice.
- I'm thinking we're all taking Elsa's ice ability a little too far. Yes, the dress could very well be made of ice, but Elsa can conjure snow too and, as we all may know, snow can compact itself and stick together. Not to mention the person who continually said Magic above has a very legitimate point. The magic would be able to keep the snow molded to her body, the cloak could be made of a mixture of frost, snow and ice in order for it to have that almost transparent quality to it. As for where her other dress goes... I have a theory. The magic shredded it, turned it to ice and then used it to make parts of the dress, also adding to the fabric-like quality of the material.
- Well, there's at least one Fanfic that seems to go along with that theory that Elsa's ice dress was actually a combination of the original coronation gown and the ice/snow/frost blend.
- So it's a mix of snowflakes and silk fibres? Well, it's a clever idea...
Let It Go! and explain!
- There is a theory that Elsa's powers represent homosexuality. What does "Let It Go" represent in this regard?
- Her coming out of the closet presumably.
- "Let It Go," is a song about rejecting what society might think about you and exalting yourself for what makes you, you. It really doesn't matter what Elsa's powers represent (sexuality, talents, personality), its meaning really doesn't change.
- Think of it this way: Elsa is born with certain traits linked to her emotions that, while not inherently bad, are embarrassing to her parents. Her parents tell her to repress these feelings ("conceal, don't feel"), and this repression is linked to being a good member of the family ("be the good girl you've always had to be"). When her secret does come out, some people think she's dangerous and a monster. When she rejects society and decides to celebrate herself, she changes from a high-necked, long-sleeved dress into a low-cut shimmery thing with a slit down the leg. I definitely saw it as a metaphor for coming out of the closet.
- Except for all LGBT people I know, "coming out" meant integrating into society with their secret revealed, not running into the wilderness to live as a hermit. If anything, Elsa is even worse off after being "outed" than she was in the palace, where she at least had books, servants, etc. She chose to isolate herself from society out of the fear of accidentally hurting someone with her powers, which is pretty much the opposite of coming out: she only dug herself deeper. To me, "Let It Go" is more of a Then Let Me Be Evil moment, minus her actually being evil.
- No metaphor can be perfect, but that's a bit like splitting hairs. The key point is that Elsa is no longer ashamed of her inherent attributes and therefore no longer hides them, just like LGBT individuals should no longer be ashamed of their inherent attributes and therefore no longer hide them. In the real world, societal acceptance is a top priority in case you want a confortable, long life, but many LGBT citizens came out because it is the right thing to do, regardless of the consequence (i.e. Alan Turing). Elsa basically came out, she accepted herself for who she was and no longer cares if anyone has a dissenting opinion. She simply did them a little favour by residing in the mountains so that her powers would not affect anyone directly, but it's not like she's particularly concerned about whereas anyone is still a prick and goes after her (until she is informed that her carelessness doomed everyone that is).
- I saw a great deal of honest joy in Elsa over actually using/embracing her power, but I agree that in the long term such isolation would not be the best goal. The true triumph was not the mountaintop keep, but the skating rink in the palace courtyard.
- I thought that "Let it Go" was a moment of Elsa accepting herself, but not accepting her position in society. She only kinda somewhat accepts herself. It's like the moment where, if we're using homosexuality as an example, one realizes that one is gay and begins to celebrate that within yourself, while still being absolutely terrified of what everyone else around you will do when they find out. She has found freedom within herself... but she still needs to reconcile the fact that just because she's okay with herself, doesn't mean that others will be. So she runs off and hides in a tower that serves as a metaphorical prison. She's more free than before, but still trapped within her fear. She accepts herself, but not what accepting herself will mean for her life. It's a big, important step... but she's still got a ways to go, which is why the movie doesn't end there.
- When you're from a particularly conservative community, you can only truly come out and be yourself after leaving it (and, worst case, breaking off all contact like Elsa meant to do). In a perfect world this wouldn't be necessary, but this ain't a perfect world. Reconnecting with your birth family after you've accepted yourself (and worn that shimmery ice dress at the Pride parade) is a nice bonus.
- Perhaps this is way off, but I thought of it as very similar to the very blackest pit of depression, exactly as described in Hyperbole and a Half. This is the stage where she's eventually so tired of hurting, she...stops caring. About anything. Which gives her a giddy sort of courage, because it means nobody can do anything to hurt her anymore. This is Elsa saying "fuck it, I'm not playing anymore". The problem is that it is not freedom from depression, it is its heart. It is isolating, and dare I say, cold. However, when people reach this point, they don't even realize there's a problem. It feels good not to be afraid, right? The tone of the song is so upbeat because she thinks things are looking up, when nothing could be further from the truth.
- In the context of the movie, I figured the scene was about not hiding behind the mask she had created anymore. Had it not been for the accident, she would probably be a lot more like Anna. I think one of the key things people seem to forget, even Elsa, is that her parents' original intent was not to hide her powers but to learn to control them. They just believed that controlling them meant her powers not seeping out when she didn't want them to. She had to become this prim and proper woman that had to be unemotional because they knew her strong emotions caused her powers to start flaring up. Unfortunately, the only strong emotions were from fear through an endless cycle of losing control of her powers scaring her, and being scared making her lose control more. It's the whole "world of cardboard" problem, but she went about learning to live in that world by staying in one place without touching anything instead of practicing with disposable items to understand her relation to everything.
- You guys are also totally missing the "born with it or cursed" moment too, which echoes the whole "gays are born that way!!" "No they aren't!!!" Debate that once raged. Also "let it go" is about letting go of caring about what everyone thinks- which as a gay raised in conservative Texas, I understood. Because sure coming out is about integrating yourself as your true self into society... You're missing the really important fact that it MUST be a society that ACCEPTS you. And anybody who doesn't can quite frankly (expletive deleated) themselves. So yes the song and scene are quite accurate. As is pointing out the whole "conceal don't feel" part which many gays have had to deal with- myself included. So while Frozen may not have been created specifically as a gay allegory... It works surprisingly well. Well enough that I (and a few others I know) have shown it to our parents for that very reason.
Elsa, champion of the 4 mile Ice Sprint
Ok, so how in the world did Elsa get up the north mountain so fast on foot when it took Anna and Kristoff at least 3/4th of a day to go the same distance on horse/reindeer back as well as walking? How did Elsa get up there with enough time to build her ice castle in 1/2 the time?
- Elsa didn't need to stop and dress for the cold. She didn't have to worry about normal clothes being frozen solid by either sweating or falling into water. She froze a path across a large lake, then made a staircase across a gaping chasm, so she wasn't weighed down by equipment. Elsa could take the most direct route up the North Mountain because she didn't need to take any precautions like Anna and Kristoff.
- Additionally, she's putting out enough cold magic that wolves would hesitate to attack her, and she's just going straight up the mountain in whatever direction the mood takes her rather than actually trying to follow someone.
- It's also possible that the elements aided her; the wind at her back for support, maybe even the snow acting like a moving walkway.
- Anna doesn't seem like the sort to be particularly good at tracking or hunting in any way. We don't know much about the entirety of Arendelle's geography, so for all we know, in going to Wandering Oaken's Trading Post & Sauna, Anna could have been going in completely the wrong direction for the first day and night of her pursuit. Then she had to backtrack to get over to the North Mountain.
- Given that she didn't know where the North Mountain was (despite being a significant percentage of Arendelle's skyline), it seems safe to assume that Anna is about as useful at land navigation as a Second Lieutenant with a map and compass.
- I mean, she probably was doing just that. Elsa didn't exactly leave a forwarding address. Anna took off on one of her wild ideas without having a clue where she was going, and didn't have so much as a hint of where Elsa was. The best she could do was head off in the same general direction as Elsa, bumble around in the darkness, and hope someone saw something. Then she gets to Wandering Oaken's Trading Post & Sauna and happens to overhear Kristoff talking about the "howler" on the North Mountain, and her immediate reaction was, "Oh, this guy knows where Elsa is! And I see he has a sled, so he can give me a lift!" Elsa, on the other hand, made a beeline for the remotest place she could think of. To put it another way, until Anna got to Oaken's place, yes, her search for Elsa was akin to a pilot trying to fly a plane through thick fog without instruments.
- It just bugs me that they drew a lot of attention to Hans' gloves, almost daring the viewer to make a connection to Elsa's gloves, yet they never came into play. I expected him all along to also secretly have elemental powers, perhaps for a final battle against Elsa.
- It helps if you think about it as a metaphor; both are characters hiding deep secrets from Anna (Elsa and her ice powers, Hans and his plan to take over Arendelle) but while one of them is hiding theirs to protect her, the other is hiding it in order to harm her. Besides, people are already complaining that his evil plot came out of nowhere; chances are people would be ESPECIALLY pissed if he also had fire powers out of nowhere as well.
- In tandem with the above: think about it - "the gloves coming off" is a way of describing a person's true intentions being revealed. When did Hans take off his gloves? When he was detailing his plan to Anna!
- Wait a second...watch that scene again. Hans put out a candle with his bare hand - explicitly after he removed the glove.◊ I'm willing to bet they originally meant for him to have fire powers, and eventually decided it would be too out of nowhere. They changed the part later - he puts out the fireplace with a jug of water - so it won't be obvious, but did they neglect to change that small bit and hope viewers wouldn't notice?
- Nah, that's just the normal way people who know what they're doing put out candles. Noobs blow on them, which leaves the wick smoldering and producing smoke. Licking your fingers (which Hans does) and snuffing out the flame by gripping the wick, preferably without dipping your fingers into the hot wax, puts out those embers and leaves the candle smokeless (which the filmmakers got wrong).
- Why ruin (probably high-quality/expensive) gloves putting out a candle? Take off the glove, then wet your fingers.
- I always thought that Hans' gloves were a quirk similar to Elsa's in that they're to avoid skin-on-skin contact with other people, but while Elsa is afraid of hurting people, Hans is rather... ''different'' about how he sees other people. Maybe he's a bit like Adrian Monk and he's someone who's a bit sensitive to people touching his skin- other people are warm and usually greasy and sweaty, like, ew. The only time Hans actually touches another person's skin with no fabric in the way is when he does his No, You to Anna, who at that point probably doesn't feel much like a human being and anyway, it's worth it for the effect it has. YMMV, though.
Anna chasing Elsa
- How in the hell did Elsa get all the way up the mountain in that short a time? Anna was chasing her on horseback, then also had Kristoff take her on a reindeer-driven sled, and still took much longer to get there. Elsa was able to basically settle in while Anna was still in the process of buying a new outfit.
- Simple enough. The ice, wind, and snow responded to Elsa's conscious and unconscious desires, aiding her in her ascent. The storm hadn't really gotten going in earnest until she'd reached her destination, and it's not impossible to think that the wind was at her back, pushing her along faster, and that the snow that hampered Anna and Kristoff wasn't anywhere near as deep yet. Plus, in "Let it Go", Elsa mentioned that the snow was hiding her footsteps. Anna had no idea where her sister had gotten off to until she met Kristoff, and didn't know specific locations until they met Olaf.
- Anna went off in the wrong direction, where Elsa went right off the the North Mountain. Also, the snow was much, much thicker when Anna went up than Elsa, who while she is shown to leave footprints just before her musical number, was clearly not up to her mid-thighs in snow.
- More importantly, Elsa was able to cut across the fjord due to her feet freezing it, while Anna, on her horse, had to go the long way around.
- I know it's a continuity error, but for what it's worth, the entire mountain seemed to be working to keep people away from Elsa, not just the snow. I mean, how else do you explain the huge wall of rocks that seems to have sprung up literally overnight on the flat stretch of hill that Elsa had walked across before building the staircase leading to her castle?
No one suggests that perhaps Anna should take some guards or scouts with her on her journey?
- I know it was probably Rule of Drama and would've ruined the plot here, but.....Anna is a princess of Arendelle and, with Elsa missing, the acting Queen. She's also probably not been outside the castle grounds that often, if at all, since she was five years old. She doesn't have a clue where she's going (seeing how she had no idea where Elsa was until she overheard Kristoff's conversation with Oaken). And yet...no one suggests that maybe she should take a guard or two along? I mean, okay, Hans does volunteer to assist Anna sidenote , but she turns him down because she wants him to keep the public in Arendelle calm. Still, you'd think Anna might want to have some form of backup on hand just in case she ran into any problems....
- Besides a heavy helping of The Main Characters Do Everything, the most plausible reason is that Anna knew that Elsa was scared and would perceive any strangers as a threat and lash out (as was aptly demonstrated later - her golem was the first to attack the delegation at her gate). Anna had to approach her alone if she wanted to have a calm discussion with her and avoid putting others at risk. Add in a dash of Anna's usual impulsiveness and the general shock everybody was in, and I think it makes a lot of sense.
Source for Japanese dub castings
- Seriously, can anyone tell me where it is stated in the Japanese dub, Maaya Sakamoto is Elsa, Yui Ishikawa is Anna, and Takehito Koyasu is Hans?
- There seems to be an ongoing edit war on the Japanese Wikipedia with those names being added and removed, but I haven't found any trace of an official source. The official Japanese Disney site only gives the English-language cast.
- And it appears we can now throw those out entirely. The first official cast member has been announced: Takako Matsu is Elsa.
The trade-off between primogeniture and the kingdom of Arendelle
- So, why exactly was the tradition/law of primogeniture more important than ensuring that the probably cursed daughter with magic powers that become hazardous to those around her when in distress didn't end up causing an icy apocalypse from the stress of ruling? Couldn't the king have declared that, for the safety of the kingdom, he would temporarily suspend primogeniture and name his younger child heir for the safety of both his children and the kingdom (and/or privately convince parliament or local equivalent to do so if that's how the local legal system works?
- Somehow bending the rules to let Elsa keep wearing gloves seems a lot less complicated. Also, how does the guy who crowned her NOT notice the stuff is partially iced over?
- Given the time period the movie most likely takes place in, and the various delegates at Elsa's coronation (French, German-most likely Prussian or Austrian, Spanish etc), suddenly changing the line of succession without a good reason for why Elsa was unfit to rule would have invited interference from the European Great Powers.
- This brings up another issue...
- The thing is these things are called laws. They're hard to change. When Emperor Charles VI tried to change the succession laws to allow Maria Theresa to ascend to the rule of the Hapsburg hereditary lands, not only did he have to spend significant portions of his reign convincing the other powers of Europe to allow for this 'Pragmatic Sanction' (which was basically what you were saying, "We're changing the laws of succession to deal with this situation"), but upon his death, a great number decided to ignore it, resulting in the War of the Austrian Succession. It wouldn't be easy to change the laws of succession, and doing so would likely result in bad things for Arendelle - sanctions, maybe wars. We don't know. Because of that, it's probably in Arendelle's best interests to try to resolve Elsa's problems than risk a war as the great powers take advantage of your announcement to get their preferred heir in place, or even generate their own claim.
- The whole Austrian Succession mess is not the best comparison, as Elsa was already considered an acceptable heir. However, shunting aside an heir apparent that has not actively made herself unpopular is a delicate matter at best.
- Great idea, let's make the parents look bigoted in the eyes of the modern audience!
- They already looked like that for their 'bottle it up' instructions. Making her not crown heir would drastically reduce stress and pressures on her — requiring far less bottling it up and far less isolation, enabling her to be herself more. Remember, being the one in charge is a burden, not a privilege, heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that.
- "Remember, being the one in charge is a burden, not a privilege, heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that." Except, that's viewing it from a modern adult perspective. Medieval heirs wouldn't have fought for thrones so much if they had shared that view. Besides, Frozen is in a fairy tale world. In fairy tales, inheriting the throne is usually an unambiguously good thing, part of a traditional Happily Ever After ending, and kids are likely to think that it's awesome — and feel sorry for Elsa if she was denied the throne through no fault of her own.
- There is a non-trivial possibility that Agdar did not realize how fragile Elsa's control was by the time she was in her late teens, a larger possibility that he did not want to admit even to himself how badly he and his wife miscalculated in their efforts to get Elsa's powers reined in, and a near certainty in both cases that they had no idea how powerful Elsa actually was. In any case, Elsa's powers being a secret outside of the royal family (to everyone except Kristoff) means that they also would have to have some sort of legitimate explanation to the public about why they chose to cut her out of the line of succession (and given how much they cared for Elsa, one that would not slander her).
- And to be fair to Agdar and Idun, even the most grounded people often suffer badly after a sudden loss, such as the death of both of your parents. If they had been there to raise Elsa up into adulthood, maybe things would have turned out better. Then again, maybe not.
- This one's easy; Agdar and Idun probably were not expecting to die young. In the prologue of the movie, both Agdar and Idun are still fairly young people in what seems to be their late 20s/early 30s who no doubt anticipated being alive for a good long while yet — and consequently, they anticipated having plenty of time being around to help Elsa come to terms with her powers so that she would be able to control them sufficiently come her elevation to the throne. No one was anticipating that they'd be lost in a freak storm at sea; for all they knew, Elsa wouldn't come to the throne for another twenty or thirty years. Not very forward-thinking of them, perhaps, but how many people throughout human history and their plans have been blindsided by sudden death?
- Another point: Even if the laws of succession were all worked out and Anna ascended the throne, it would have finally confirmed to her that there was something physically and/or emotionally unstable in Elsa which made her unfit to rule, which would in turn have further prompted her into pushing Elsa to tell her the secret.
- Also, what about Anna? Promoting her to heiress apparent (it appears that Arendelle's succession is gender neutral, hence why Agdar and Idun didn't appear to try and conceive a son after Anna was bornnote ) would not only put a strain on Anna, but would also, as stated above, possibly elevate her curiosity about Elsa. Agdar and Idun are shown to clearly care about Anna just as much as they do Elsa, and wouldn't want the risk of two emotionally unstable daughters (even if Elsa were "relieved" or her duties, she still is in need of a lot of support and care).
- There is no reason why Elsa could not have abdicated in favor of Anna. Especially if Elsa was unsuited to the throne. There was a case where a Crown Prince of England abdicated in favor of his younger brother.
- But Elsa is more grounded and savvy than Anna. It's clear who would be the better ruler. Yes, Anna is able to get serious and order people around, but it's more difficult for her because of her Adorkable personality. Anna's way of doing it also seems to cause disdain in people (look at how much effort it took her just to get Kristoff to provide her transportation) whereas Elsa is a more natural leader who people follow on the spot.
- Although allowing Elsa to become the queen definitely presents some problems at the beginning of the movie, primogeniture was probably the best option available. Elsa is, for the most part, able to control her powers. Maybe her methods of doing so weren't the best methods, but they seem to work out for at least the time being. At any rate, her parents wouldn't have had any reason to suspect that the outburst that sets off the movie would happen. Besides, Anna is enormously emotionally immature and lacks sound judgment (falling for Hans, some of her actions on the journey, etc.). Would you really want to give whatever power the crown in Arendelle has to someone who wants to marry someone they just met?
- The Austrian Succession works perfectly here... If they had had gotten rid of a perfectly acceptable heir without a true reason and created their own version of the Pragmatic Sanction, the whole kingdom would have been ripe for interference. What if France (or any other Great Power for that matter) thinks, "Elsa has a better claim!! If we defend her claim and place her on the throne she'll be indebted to us!" You'd have a "War of the Arendelle Sucession" on your hands. And no it wouldn't matter that Elsa was against it, as the war could also be used as a convient excuse to carve Arendelle up, take it over completely, or simply just neutralize it by smashing it's armies with a supposed "just cause." So the powers supposedly fighting for Elsa might not have even cared about her opinion in the matter, her stronger claim would have just been a tool used horrificly. And you're forgetting that nearly everyone who's renounced claims has had large reasons to do so, reasons which are normally overwhelmingly accepted. What would Elsa's have been? The only true reasons would have damaged her and her families reputation- just like when that particular Prince of England damaged the Windsor's reputation when he resigned. Succession laws are also a huge Pandora's box that most intelligent dynasties don't like to screw with. Think about it, changing them- even temporarily sets a dangerous precedent. That the laws can be changed. This could prove dangerous in the future, with all the scheming and wheeling and dealing seen in royal courts it wouldn't be surprising if down the line someone else in the royal family (or maybe simply a noble family) attempted to change the laws to benefit themselves simply based on the fact that, "the laws have been changed before, why not again?" The easiest, simplest, least dangerous route is to simply let Elsa learn to handle herself and then rule as queen. Her parents obviously thought they'd have A LOT more time with her to iron out the kinks. They just died unexpectantly before it could happen.
Everybody's okay with a witch-ruled kingdom
- The dialogue makes clear this is some variant of Europe, the chapel makes it clear something like Christianity is a thing in Arendelle, and the dialog also makes it clear from uses of the word witchcraft with revulsion and horror that the popular and possibly religious concept of witch=bad in and of itself likely exists in-universe. Won't there be massive problems (possibly up to and including a crusade) relating to the fact that a country within Christendom is now openly ruled by a witch?
- Elsa's powers aren't anything like the sort of witchcraft the real Church condemned. Witches were specifically people who were getting powers drawn from The Legions of Hell, and using them to harm and curse their neighbors. The Church never tried to apply the same brush to, for example, the supernatural powers saints and kings were frequently believed to possess. Elsa's powers could be seen as beneficial, as they could confirm, or at least reinforce, the assumption that royalty are born inherently different from ordinary people, and perhaps are somehow invisibly superhuman. Neighboring monarchs would be finding or creating legends that suggest they have something like that in their own family history that might just show itself one day. However even if you presume a 17th century setting (there are enough muskets about to rule out any earlier time periods), the scope of Elsa's power would force a degree of realpolitik into the discussion. The wiser rulers would stand over the shoulder of their lands' ranking prelates as a letter is written to the Arch(?)bishop of Arendelle concerning the 'wild tales', a reply to the effect of "do not worry over Her Highness' Completely Non-Satanic Gifts From The Good Lord" will be duly accepted, and no more would be said. There's also the military and security benefits of having a Person of Mass Destruction running your country when everyone else only has, at best, black powder weapons; Elsa is essentially a war deterrent equal to nuclear weapons. Other nations would be lining up to make friends with Arendelle or shutting up and keeping their heads down.
- Remember also that Elsa was charged by Hans with treason, not witchcraft. Considering that Hans would use any tools available to get the throne, it's unlikely he would pass off such a good and easy opportunity to get rid of her, especially when he'd have the sorcery-hating Duke of Weaseltown (WESELTON!) backing him if he went that route.
- There doesn't seem to be so much prejudice against magic in Arendelle. Elsa's parents don't seem to consider her powers to be evil, simply dangerous. This also compounds the implied LGBT themes, as even the most homosexual-friendly person is going to be a little surprised when one reveals he or she is gay out of apparently nowhere.
- Within Arendelle, everyone would likely turn a blind eye so that what happened in the movie doesn't repeat itself, especially now that she has control over her powers. Besides, she seemingly works in the entertainment industry, such as converting the palace grounds in an ice skating field. She knows how to keep the masses distracted and has proven benevolent to her subjects even if not all of her people were thrilled by her powers.
- For those who still don't like being ruled over by a magical monarch, they can simply leave Arendelle. Given Elsa's powers, anyone who opposes Elsa would likely avoid confronting her for fear of what they think she'll do in response.
- Any nation that decides to attack Arendelle, and any force they send, would have to deal with the full force of Elsa's powers (that's not even factoring Arendelle's army, who would likely take exception to an attack on their Queen or Country). To elaborate; attack by land, she sends a blizzard. Make it through that, you then face an army of Marshmallows. Seaborne invasion is even worse - Elsa would just freeze the fjord solid, immobilizing your ships if not outright shattering their hulls: this is the era of wooden ships, after all. Attempt to offload and cross the ice, she just unfreezes it, dumping you and all your supplies into the drink... and if she's really feeling nasty, freezes it again while you're all in the water. Weselton's lucky she doesn't visit and plunge the nation into eternal winter. Fortunately for neighbouring countries, she seems benevolent enough to not likely advocate an expansionist foreign policy.
- First off, OP assumes that the culture is fully accurate to Europe at that time and not an Alternate History. Given the Church of Saint Genericus that Elsa was coronated in, that's probably not the case. The Duke of Weselton had prejudice against magical people, but the people of Arendelle, on the other hand, though they were quite startled by the sudden appearance of Elsa's powers, were not as quick to immediately share the judgment that their queen must be an evil monster. Note that Hans felt the best way to curry favor with the people of Arendelle that he hoped to rule was to avoid agreeing with the Duke and give Elsa the benefit of the doubt, and he didn't feel he could get away with openly killing her until he thought he could pin Anna's death on her as a justification.
Architecture and Engineering
- So, how did Elsa have the architectural skill to make a structurally sound castle on her first try, without any pretty-but-prone-to-collapse flourishes, particularly given she seems to have built it on a whim?
- The book A Sister More Like Me establishes that Elsa had an interest in geometry since childhood, with the mention of fractals in her song confirming this (despite fractals not being invented until 1975). And then there's this quote from BioShock Infinite:
Booker: Where did you learn to pick locks?Elizabeth: Trapped in a tower with nothing but books and spare time... You would be surprised what I know how to do.
- The answer lies in Olaf and the ice stairway that Elsa builds shortly before constructing the castle. If you look a bit more closely at Olaf, you'll notice that his legs aren't actually connected to his body; they just shuffle along the ground while the body levitates above them, kinda like Rayman, and the same can be said for his chest and for his head. That actually is how he's able to come apart and yet get put back together so easily. The bridge is a similar case. It looks solid enough once built, but Elsa builds it by simply extending it from one edge of the chasm to the other *while walking on it*. Realistically, it should have just snapped off and fallen into the chasm. Clearly, Elsa's magical ice can defy the laws of gravity. I would imagine building a fanciful ice palace is a lot easier when all you need to do is give it form and you don't have to worry about the pesky laws of physics collapsing it on top of you.
- But then again, the chandelier did fall from the ceiling.
- With Olaf, Elsa's powers prove that they can create self-regulating items (notice Olaf's able to instantly repair his parts when skewered/disassembled). Her castle is likely held together entirely by her magic, especially since things start to fall apart when she gets upset with Anna's revelation that she sent the kingdom into a deep freeze.
- The book A Sister More Like Me establishes that Elsa had an interest in geometry since childhood, with the mention of fractals in her song confirming this (despite fractals not being invented until 1975). And then there's this quote from BioShock Infinite:
Elsa's Room in "Do You Wanna Build A Snowman?"
- If Elsa didn't know how to thaw her ice, how did her room turn back to normal after the grieving scene in "Do You Wanna Build A Snowman?" I guess she could have just moved to another room, but if her powers went out of control and she had to move again...that's a lot of rooms in the palace that are getting frozen over.
- Elsa doesn't know how to thaw her ice magically, but seeing how Olaf begins melting several times, it melts well enough naturally with normal heat. She likely left her room for a while with strict orders that no one (not even servants or maids) should enter without permission and waited for the ice to melt.
- But by that logic, wouldn't there have been no reason to worry about the winter she caused, because it would have melted by itself, Arendelle being in the middle of summer, and all?
- At that point, her powers had gone out of control so badly that even being in the far mountains above the treeline qualified as being in the 'same room'.
- I daresay a relatively thin coating of ice in a single room will melt and dry quicker than an entire town that's being subjected to a mighty blizzard.
- Elsa's powers don't seem to melt unless she wants them too, unless the thing in question is living (presumably her magic with living ice is a might bit unstable and that's what causes Olaf to melt on several occasions). Natural heat doesn't seem to melt them, since her ice dress stays after she returns summer to her kingdom nor when she's embraced, and an entire castle with all the fires lit still freezes internally, even in the rooms with the lit fires. It's possible the love she felt for her parents subconsciously defrosted everything in her sleep. After all, you can't control your emotions whilst you sleep. This same kind of thing is likely what unfroze the ballroom after the initial accident.
- If that's the case, how do they deal with the constant water damage? All that cold water can't possibly do any favors for the woodwork, the carpet or floorboards.
- It depends- it doesn't look like she often makes a huge amount of ice in there. It would probably be little enough to pass off as a damp problem or a lot of condensation.
- Most likely, the ice she created on the walls melted away and/or vanished when she calmed down, since the flare ups in her room were caused by high emotions. When she said she couldn't reverse the blizzard, she was emotionally unstable and faced with a task much more challenging than thawing a bedroom.
- Elsa's ice seems to have ontological inertia. If she's not actively maintaining it, it has to sustain itself. Olaf demonstrates this when he starts to melt. Her room probably just thawed naturally. As for how this relates to the winter storm, we honestly don't know anything about the effects of the storm. We don't know how far it extended outside of Arendelle, or how cold she dropped the temperature. There is no way to be certain how long it would stay if left to its own devices. We can't even be sure it would end if she died; that might just cause it to stick around until it clears up naturally. Ultimately, it doesn't matter: a surprise blizzard in the middle of summer can be devastating to a medieval country's economy, destroying crops, killing livestock, and also killing citizens who aren't prepared for it. Every day that the winter storm is still in Arendelle makes the kingdom less sustainable.
- The kingdom probably wouldn't have thawed out if they just waited because it's clear from the scenes shown in the town that the temperature is remaining very low. Presumably after Elsa's outbursts at home she'd get back enough equilibrium for her powers to stop affecting the ambient temperature, so it would melt in summer and in winter she could light the fire to get rid of it. (I know princesses don't usually light their own fires but she wouldn't want anyone else to see the room.)
- Did Anna ever get her memories back of her and Elsa playing as children?
- Well, yes and no. Grand Pabbie did not remove her memories so much as alter them. The girls' location and clothes changed and possibly memories of a couple minutes prepping for wintry fun (assuming she would've remembered that at all), but other than that, she would have remembered those moments much the same way Elsa would. She just didn't know that Elsa was the source of the snow. While Anna now knows that many of her memories of having fun in the snow occurred indoors rather than outdoors, she still does not remember them that way.
- Besides, Anna's no older than five when this happens. Having missing, patchy or nonsensical memories things that happen when you're very young is perfectly normal. They could explain this away.
- There was a tie-in book that I believe had Anna getting her memories back.
The Kiss Dilemma
- Choosing to have the final climax be resolved between the two sisters was a masterstroke; however, that does leave a big gaping question...if the situation was different and the chance was there, given how many classic fairy tale tropes this film chose to turn on their heads; would a kiss from Kristoff have actually succeeded at fixing the curse at all? There were no real clues to support it working, nor any real points to it not being a viable solution either. Not to take away from a great finale of course, but it does leave some ample room to wonder the possibilities...
- I thinks no. The trolls say that only an act of true love can undo the curse. A kiss from someone you love is nice, but is it really an act of true love in the way that sacrificing yourself for someone is? It seems like that the act of true love has to be someone doing something that expresses how much they love someone else, instead of just a kiss. Interestingly, by that logic, it could be argued that Kristoff taking Anna to Hans, wanting to her to be happy with him even though he loved her himself, could have been interpreted as an act of true love itself. In that case, maybe it's the cursed person themselves who has to express/feel the true love. This fits in with the canonical cure, Anna's sacrifice.
- There is a speech about true love and about how it means thinking of others above yourself, or something or other. A selfless act for a loved one is good. But what made Anna's an act of true love was that she had a choice between running to Elsa or Kristoff. In her mind, the kiss would have saved her, or so she believed. So she was essentially choosing to save Elsa instead of saving herself. That proved she loved her sister enough to sacrifice her own life for her. And it seems that maybe Elsa in turn didn't realise how much Anna really did love her. She must have thought after years of them being estranged, Anna didn't love her that much anymore. And in that moment, Elsa realised that she was loved as well. Fear made Elsa lose control of her powers, but love helped her regain control.
- Yes, the kiss with Kristoff would have worked. Otherwise, from a story position, Anna's sacrifice wasn't a sacrifice at all, as she wouldn't have been giving up a chance at life.
- From my point of view, it would, and, simultaneously, it wouldn't. It would have to work — or Anna must believe it would have worked — for it to fit the sacrifice properly, as you say. At the same time, though, if Anna had given up the chance to save Elsa in favor of potentially saving her own life (by running to Kristoff for the kiss), that would probably have invalidated it and the kiss no longer would have worked. It's contradictory, but makes sense if you think through it slowly. This interpretation holds that the matter hinges on Anna's own belief in the effect (which doesn't seem out of the question when magic is interacting so strongly with feelings and metaphorical hearts). Either way, though, Anna probably didn't reason through this, just went "sister in danger, save" - which is, of course, why the sacrifice saved her.
- So what are we to take from this? That romantic love, the way that it is presented and conventionally applied, cannot be used as a conditional effect for arguments of true love? What Olaf said was certainly true: Kristoff did indeed commit to several actions in the third act of the movie that did not benefit himself — and even hurt him — only to show that love. Therefore, does romantic love simply not work in terms of healing the frozen heart? I don't like the idea of that statement, because it invalidates Kristoff's struggles and basically makes him superfluous in the climax.
- The way I understood it is that the act of love had to be done by Anna herself, otherwise, there were several times the curse could have been broken by Kristoff, and even by Olaf (allowing himself to melt just so Anna wouldn't be alone).
- One thing to think about Kristoff and Olaf is that saving a person's life is the duty of a decent person, especially when it's the life of a friend or your ruler. I don't have to truly love you (or like you or even know you, really) to put myself through considerable inconvenience or hardship to save your life. However, I would have to truly love you to face certain death to save you (I'm not that good of a person).
- Kristoff plays an integral role in the climax as he provides Anna with a way out, even if only in her mind. Without such an escape, Anna cannot perform the act of love (a Heroic Sacrifice for Elsa) she needed to thaw her heart. Like stated above, Anna is the one would needs to perform the act in order to warm her own heart.
- I believes not for a different reason-whilst definitely there, Kristoff and Anna's love had not been developed enough for it to be considered true love. Kristoff's heart is obviously in it, there's no doubt about that. But we mustn't forget-he's only known her about a day, and though he's had a good glimpse of her personality and past, there is still plenty he doesn't know (come to think of it, there's plenty the viewers don't know-what's her last name?). He is also likely unprepared for any sort of long term relationship-remember that he was an Ineffectual Loner with No Social Skills a few hours ago. On Anna's end, she never even noticed anything particularly special about him or his actions until Olaf points it out-though Anna thought herself in a relationship with Hans at the time, she never even considered him as anything more than ordinary until it was, as I said, pointed out by Olaf. At the end, they haven't even given their relationship an official label, though this may be because they find the whole boyfriend/girlfriend thing to be awkward. One could argue that it's a Disney movie, but times have changed since Snow White, and, well, Hans. Enough said.
- I feel that as long as the love felt by the person committing the act is true, reciprocation is not required. Is Marcus' sacrifice for Ivanova in Babylon 5 not true love, even though his love was mostly unrequited? Anna's motivations were pure, she intended to sacrifice herself for Elsa and did everything she could to do so. Even though she didn't die, compare with Harry Potter's self-sacrifice. Survival does not invalidate the act, you just got a bonus 1up.
- I feel like both Kristoff AND Anna believed their kiss would have worked (why else would Kristoff do his Big Damn Heroes ride?). And since they both believe it, it would have worked, at least at that point in time. And then Anna sees Elsa about to be murdered. Sister in danger. And she loves her sister more than her own life. Of course if she had run for Kristoff, would he have been able to love somebody who abandoned her sister like that? Like the Trolls say, love is a force that is powerful and strange.
- Don't forget that stepping in front of a blade being swung already counts as a pretty big sacrifice in itself, even without the "forgoing a chance to get a true love kiss" part. It trumps every other potential act of true love seen in the movie either from Anna or directed to her (except Olaf's melting, and even then it was not instantly fatal). I personally like to think that Anna had to be the one to perform an act of true love, as she was the one with the frozen heart, and that the ultimate sacrifice (dying for her sister, not avoiding a kiss that could have saved her) was warm enough to thaw it, while kissing a man would not have been.
What happened to the henchmen?
- They were both unable to move, on the brink of death...and Elsa's ice seems pretty hard to break...and the climate makes it unlikely that the ice-blades would melt naturally...and I doubt that Elsa would have melted the mountain range in the finale, it being a natural ecosystem in itself...yeah, I'm finding it hard to think they lived.
- You see them getting on the ship home with the Duke of Weselton at the end of the film.
- It's not a stretch to imagine that Hans (not to mention the rest of the search party) helped them down after Elsa was knocked unconscious by the chandelier.
- Use the butt of the crossbow to break the icicles holding Henchman A to the wall, and toss Henchman B a rope and/or slide the ice wall out of the way. Easy as pie.
What happened to the ice harvesters?
- Okay, so in the beginning, we have the ice harvesters harvesting ice. Kristoff is their apprentice or something (considering that they're not watching him terribly much, the way parents would, and he's clearly "adopted" by the trolls, which implies orphanhood). Cut to thirteen years later, and it seems that he's the only ice harvester around. Where did they go?
- Well, if you take the real world connection into account, maybe all the ice harvesters we happened to see in the opening sequence were all members of the Sami. If history tells us anything, being a member of an indigenous peoples has never been exactly easy. Perhaps they're still around, just, not anywhere near the castle town; opting to stay wherever it is they've made their settlements. It's a bit of a stretch, but it's plausible.
- I took that as a sign that with the King and Queen dead, Arendelle was going through an economic depression.
- Ice harvesters disperse in the summer to the different areas that they are supplying, Kristoff supplied the area around Arendelle, while other harvesters supplied other areas. Remember, the goal is to make money, and you can't do that by selling to a very limited market, demand quickly declines.
- More likely, the ice harvesters only work in the winter, gathering and stockpiling ice to create a supply to last through the summer. Kristoff, being the anti-social guy in a questionable relationship with an animal that needs a cold climate, likely stays up in the mountains, only coming to town to sell his ice to anyone who doesn't have their own supply. During the summer, the other harvesters probably either have farms or other businesses that won't suffer too badly if they head into the mountains for a few months every winter.
- The other harvesters were all minor characters anyway. Why would they still be in the movie?
- Kristoff is also the guy who's seriously into ice. The other ice harvesters probably find something else to do during the summer months when there's no ice for them to harvest, but Kristoff likes to hang around close to the ice because, well, he really likes ice.
- At least 13 years pass between "Frozen Heart" and the events of the main plot. Ice harvesting is only done in the winter, so they have to have another job that they do in the summer that makes money, like logging or store managing. Plus, in that 13 year period, many of them have probably quit the ice harvesting business. Or died.
How does Elsa's hair work?
- Elsa's pre-Let It Go hair is a bun with a forehead braid. Then she takes it down and it turns into a French braid. How?
- It was tied into the French braid first and then put up in the bun. If you look at her hair when it's up, the bun is slightly to the side as well. It's just how it was styled.
- But isn't that impossible? Elsa's braid is evenly sectioned, and it starts at the crown of her head. The Coronation hairstyle is a bun with a twist at the front and no visible part in the hair (she swept it all to one side, kind of like a comb-over.)
- Considering that this happens seconds after the causes a massive ice palace to rise out of a mountain, I think it's fair to say that the hair is the least of the impossibilities in that scene.
- The ice palace is to be believed because of Willing Suspension of Disbelief. I'd say this is more of an example of MST3K Mantra or Bellisario's Maxim. The ice palace has an explanation; this does not. However, the hair is nonetheless not an important detail. We could also talk about the fact that when she lets her hair down into a braid, it passes through her shoulder. The answer is just that CG hair is really hard to animate, and considering the timeframe the filmmakers noticed the 'animation glitch' but let it slide.
Elsa's hair Part II
- This is probably just an oversight by the animators, but where did Elsa's bangs go when she let down her hair? They just kind of disappear or magically elongate so she can sweep them back.
- The coronation bun is very complicated, but essentially, the lower half of the braid runs along the left and front sides of her head, and her 6 inch long bangs wrap around it to hold it up, and it holds the bangs up. When Elsa grabbed the back of the bun and pulled, it slipped the end of the braid out and the bangs fell to their full length. She then pushed her bangs up on top of her head, giving her hair a feathered look and hiding the lack of balance between the sides of her hair. The real question is how did she style that in less than 16 hours?
- I get that explanations for her longer bangs, but I'm talking about the bangs across her forehead like in this picture: ◊ It looks like those are just her normal bangs, not braided/styled into anything. When Elsa lets down her hair, they literally disappear. Probably just an oversight by the animators.
- They have been wrapped around the braid and are 6ish inches long. The angle to the right is because they have been pinned there by the braid.
- Maybe she didn't like bangs, so she cut them off with a thin, sharp piece of ice while letting her hair down.
- My guess about the short bangs as mentioned is that it got swept up with her longer bangs and kind of just stuck with them. Ice probably makes a hell of a hair gel if you know what you're doing.
- From looking at a gif of the scene frame by frame, Elsa's short bangs seem to be there as she throws away the crown but have vanished as soon as she reaches back to pull down the braid. Looks like Rapunzel isn't the only one with magic hair.
- Oddly, I watched the movie for three hours, only the scenes with Elsa so I could detect her hair. It looks like the braid in the front is actually connected to the bun in the back. The bun in the back is the French braid rolled around itself and tied down that way to keep it in place. The braid in the front is just the longer bangs that Elsa pushes back and disrupting the braid in the back actually loosens the braid in the front, causing it to flop down, giving a reason for her to push it back. This makes sense considering Anna's hair is in her two iconic pigtails during the coronation, but they are also artfully braided around her head to appear more formal for her sister's coronation.
How did Olaf get into the castle?
- How did Olaf get past the gigantic castle wall, avoid detection, AND somehow conveniently find the room that Anna was locked in?
- The guards are either extremely inept or the guy's a lot sneakier than he looks.
- He is small and made out of snow. If he keeps his mouth shut remaining unnoticed in a snowstorm is not that hard.
- That is a very big "If."
- On that note, maybe he scared the guards away (the same he did that random woman when sledding into Arandelle) by walking up to them and going "Hello!" Eternal blizzard... princess just returned, clearly sick and dying... and now talking snowmen? Screw This, I'm Outta Here!! For the last question, a WMG on the page posits that Olaf can always tell where Anna and Elsa are, because he is magic and, more specifically, magic built from the bond of love between them. It's an unconscious power.
- At this point, the snowstorm is getting much worse, everything is freezing over to the point where the storm is freezing the inside of the castle, the snow looks like it's starting to pile up over walls and buildings, and even royal guards have their limits. Olaf probably manages to get around unseen because almost everyone is either huddled together trying not to freeze to death or is preoccupied trying to find Elsa.
- There's several feet of snow in the middle of summer and your new queen has just been revealed as a corporeal ice-goddess. A talking snowman probably wouldn't be thought of as unusual by that point. The guards probably took one look at him, took a hit from a flask of brandy, and threw another log on the fire.
- Who says he got inside without being seen? Maybe he just explained the situation to one of the guards and they told him what room Anna was in - at that point, everyone knew about Elsa's ice powers, and there may have been someone working there who knew about her magic beforehand, maybe even about how the princesses had built Olaf before as kids.
- Also, consider how Elsa gets out (apart from the fact that she causes part of the building to collapse, it seems). From her window she looks straight out onto the thickly-frozen fjord- normally that window would look only onto deep water, that surrounds the castle on all sides, so it's now possible to walk right up to the castle walls where normally it would be only possible to access by boat or swimming. It's also not terribly secure, as cells go- and presumably that's just the dungeon. Chances are that there are a lot of such weak spots- an entrance for supplies, say- which don't have much reinforcement because they're never normally accessible on foot.
- There could be some damage elsewhere in the building and Olaf probably has no problem climbing up snowdrifts to get to, say, a window that's burst open in the wind.
- Olaf is a small creature made of snow walking around a town subjected to an overwhelmingly heavy blizzard. He blends in well.
Why keep both of them in the castle?
- Why is Anna stuck in the castle since childhood along with Elsa? It's pretty obvious she was bored and wanted company, so why not let her leave and meet other people?
- A simple explanation: Anna would probably start asking her parents why Elsa couldn't go out with her, leading to her parents having to come up with a reason to keep Elsa in, and it would seem more and more suspicious if Anna was always allowed to go out while Elsa wasn't.
- She's a princess, she's not supposed to go out and meet those filthy commoners. She might have been offered servants or nobles for company, but knowing Anna, it's unlikely that any company without being able to leave the palace or see Elsa would be enough for her.
- Perhaps to cut down on the rumors? I don't think Anna would be the kind to intentionally gossip, but it's easy for me to imagine her saying things like "yeah, my sister never leaves her room, even inside the castle" or "Sometimes, I see servants throwing out furniture from my sister's room that has water damage, what's up with that?" Or maybe Anna wouldn't spill, but someone else would tell her a story about someone cursed with uncontrollable ice powers, and it would be eerily familiar, enough for her to connect some dots. Elsa and their parents were paranoid, they wouldn't want even a chance that people would start to figure out her secret. And/or the above explanation also makes sense - whether or not the royal family is prejudiced or biased against commoners, it'd still be very weird for Anna to just... walk up to them. Imagine six- or twelve- or sixteen-year-old Anna leaving the castle with a royal escort (if the manpower could even be spared; they were running on a skeletal staff and, again, didn't want people going in and out to spread rumors about Elsa) and trying to wander around and make friends with random subjects. Alternately, she *did* try that, and found it so awkward and unsatisfying that she pinned her hopes on the coronation introducing her to peers of her social status (like Hans) and forcing Elsa out of hiding.
- If it was to cut down on the rumors, that probably is the most likely answer, because it does cut down on suspicion towards Elsa specifically. If Princess Anna frequently leaves the palace and Princess Elsa stays locked away, people are bound to wonder, "What the hell's wrong with Princess Elsa? Why the hell do we never see her in public and just her younger sister? Elsa's supposed to be our next queen, right?". And it is bad for Elsa since she is next in line for the throne - people might question whether she is fit to rule. But if the entire royal family stays in the palace then you maintain the illusion that everyone just wants to keep their business to themselves. Alternately the girls never left the palace before anyway but Anna and Elsa didn't mind because they had each other for company. It would be improper for two young royal children to go outside the palace without some kind of escort - and that hardly allows them to have the kind of fun they wanted.
- Well who would have been able to go outside with Anna since they were running with a skeleton crew?
- Seemed clear to me that she was basically kept imprisoned in the castle, forbidden from going out. In the song "For the First Time In Forever," she expresses (perhaps hyperbolic, but still) surprise that the doors and windows even open anymore. As lonely as she sounds from that song, if she could have gone out and met someone, it seems likely she would have.
- A Sister Like Me, in addition to Elsa's love of geometry, has Anna going outside. She rides a pony, climbs trees, looks in Elsa's window, is out in all weather. Even just by the movie, she knows how to ride, which would be hard to learn if you spent your whole life after 5 inside. I think we can go with "Elsa did not spend 13 years in one room, and Anna did not spend 13 years indoors, but their childhoods were lonely and Elsa avoided playing with Anna or talking to her much." As for the song, that could refer to the hall windows and grand doors for crowds, vs. small doors for individuals. The palace had been dark and empty and mostly shut up, not sealed. Now there was light and crowds!
- I always figured that perhaps their parents had issued a decree that the gates stay closed until Elsa turned 21. That would explain Anna's excitement at having visitors in the castle during "For the First Time in Forever".
- Not to mention, even if Anna wasn't specifically stuck in the castle herself, she's still shown trying to reach out to Elsa several times while they're kids. It's not unreasonable to assume that she may have gone outside sometimes, but didn't get to as much as she may have wanted thanks to trying to talk to Elsa so much. So the idea of that many people at once naturally had her excited, and Anna may have exaggerated.
So like, Elsa's got control over cold and ice, yeah? How does her power generate light? How does this enable her to create life? And how does this allow her to alter her dress?
- Rule of Cool. Plain and simple.
- She's never shown generating light; ice and snow always glow slightly in moonlight, and animation has to bring that effect to life somehow (or, it could just be a passive Power Glows effect). The dress is made out of very thin layers of ice. Her powers over ice and snow allow her to literally transfigure snow into sentient, living creatures (she could not bring anything made of other materials to life).
- Though this does not explain how Olaf's stick arms and eyeballs came to be
- Her powers also clearly give her control over the winds and weather in addition to ice and snow; when she formed Olaf, you can see the stick arms and other pieces fly in from offscreen, carried by the wind.
- So, basically, she stole someone's eyes...
- I think the "light" the OP was talking about was when Elsa makes the big snowflake pattern on the top floor of her castle sort of light up ("my power flurries through the air into the ground"). As to the life, it's possible that part of her magic is unstable, since Olaf is the only thing Elsa creates that is shown to melt due to natural heat. Putting life into something is something Elsa can only do when she's feeling extremely powerful emotions (joy at being able to be herself for Olaf and Marshmallow was born out of her desire to protect Anna from Elsa herself)
- Barring the dress and the living snowmen her powers are easily described as emotion fueled Burst Type PSI. Everything else is "Magic". The main problem I have is: Where is she getting all the water from? Even if she pulls the hydrogen and oxygen out of the air she would have problems after large bursts, such as the castle, where there would be very little available H2O in the environment. She is not getting a lot of it out of the snow as that would result in structural issues as that would result in collapsing snowdrifts, avalanches and the like.
- As far as the light goes, considering that Word of God confirmed Elsa's ice powers as being from a 1,000-year time gap after the last alignment of Saturn... the ice volcanoes of Enceladus say hello.
- We're talking Functional Magic here, not Stock Superpowers. Given their magical nature, there is no requirement that Elsa's ice magic strictly follows laws of physics or behave within a scientific framework. She also produced a lot of classic Disney sparkles when creating the ice palace. Presumably, this is a kind of elemental magic that allows her to do anything so long as it is somehow related to ice (e.g. making ice shed illumination).
Why did it take Kristoff so long to get back to the castle?
- In the climax, after Kristoff drops Anna off at the castle, it seems to take him much longer to get back while galloping downhill at breakneck speed than he spent walking slowly and dejectedly uphill while leaving.
- Maybe he had an initial burst of speed to leave the castle behind him as fast as possible, and then slowed down to give Sven a rest. Also, on the way back down into Arendelle, he and Sven were fighting through a blinding snowstorm and snow was blowing in their faces.
- So why did striking the frozen Anna make Hans' sword shatter and produce a force wave knocking him back?
- Magical Ice or concentrated power of love, take your pick.
- If you look closely, the sword ices over just before it hits frozen Anna's hand, likely making the sword all the more brittle, so that probably helped.
- Still doesn't explain the force wave, which is clearly magical.
- Because Elsa wanted to protect Anna.
- If you make iron or steel cold enough, it becomes extremely brittle (also explaining how Elsa got out of the shackles). The shockwave could have been caused by the magic that froze the sword as it struck Anna's hand, which might have been connected to the freezing-curse or an instinctive reaction from Elsa.
- I'm sure I've read that even temperatures that are survivable to humans can make some steel- steel that contains a lot of sulphur, mostly made before modern industrial processes- weak enough to break with sufficient impact (the Titanic kinda probably seems to have had this issue). Now, Hans' sword does not look like ones made in the 19th century... and given his Blue Blood, there's a good chance that it's been passed down the family for a few centuries, so really wasn't produced by modern smelting, so wasn't up to being taken down to well-below freezing (cold enough to spontaneously frost over its surface) and then hitting a very hard object.
- I thought the shockwave was from the spell finishing freezing over Anna, since the next shot is her last breath. Note that there's a shockwave from Elsa's shock, horror, and misery when Hans tells her Anna died. That shockwave stopped the storm.
- Possible alternate explanation: In many mythologies and stories, winter is tied not just to ice magic, but also to death and entropy. It's possible that the "flash" of winter magic given off by Anna's transformation created little lines where the metal rusted or dissolved.
- There's also the sound of a shockwave- though not nearly that strong- when Elsa breaks down and the snow stops falling. Perhaps it's something to do with Elsa's magic messing about with the air pressure?
- One 'save scene' was actually going to include Hans getting back up with the remains of his sword and trying again, and the sisters were trying to protect each other when Kristoff would have stepped in and punched him down. And though I would sell a kidney to see that, the writers obviously didn't want to take away from Anna's rescue, or were worried about showing Kristoff hitting Hans after Hans mentioned having bullying brothers.
- Not that physics really applies to magic...but Anna freezing solid so quickly would have effectively released a significant amount of kinetic energy from arrested atomic motion. Normally that would be expressed as heat. But since her freezing coincided with Hans' sword striking her hand the kinetic energy may have transferred to the sword, and him, instead. That would further explain the sword shattering and the shockwave.
Gloves vs. Shackles
- It will be a stupid question, i know, but it bugs me: How does Elsa's gloves work? They are not magical gloves made by the trolls or anything like this, they are ordinary gloves. And yet Elsa has much less trouble with controlling her magic when she has them on (or much more trouble without them). How is that even possible? What's even more puzzling: the solid, metal cuffs Elsa was chained with turned to ice and broke quickly - and she was chained for a short while only. How come the gloves were not damaged in the slightest after so many years of wearing them day in, day out?
- A good chunk of the gloves' effectiveness strikes me as psychosomatic. Elsa is not in direct contact with something, therefore it will not freeze as readily. As for the shackles? Those she wants to destroy, and I suspect that if she ever wanted the gloves off half as badly as one would want to remove the chains keeping her in a cell where she is about to be killed out of hand, the gloves would be a memory.
- Elsa's powers were growing stronger as she got older. Perhaps they also got stronger as she started using them more, kinda like Chronicle. So by the time she was captured, her powers had grown to the point where gloves wouldn't stop her as well anymore.
- The plot made a big deal of the fact that every time Elsa lost control of her powers, it was because of fear. The gloves didn't need to actually do anything as long as Elsa was conditioned from childhood to believe they would block her powers, so she would be confident in the knowledge that she couldn't harm anyone while wearing them, even if it wasn't objectively true.
- We see Elsa using her powers many times with her feet and her shoes don't do anything to stop it, so I'm guessing the gloves were a psychological measure. (unless her foot magic only works when she has her hands uncovered)
- Even when casting magic with her feet, although she stomps on the ground for dramatic effect as an adult, in the childhood ballroom scene the magic works when her feet are resting on the ground while she cradles Anna in her arms. Pretty much confirms psychological measure.
- I figured the gloves were winter gloves, much the same way Elsa seems to be wearing a formal winter dress to her coronation. It's just that they were keeping the cold from escaping outside instead of the other way around. The shackles are metal, and metal tends to conduct temperatures pretty well. Given how fast she could frost up her windows as a little girl and the coronation paraphernalia, it shouldn't be surprising that the shackles started icing up quickly. Also, as was mentioned above, her powers are emotion based, and the shackles didn't start icing until after Elsa woke up and realized they were there. Combined with the freaking out that resulted in the castle getting iced over, the shackles didn't stand a chance.
- It's also not uncommon in fantasy stories for silk to block magic so maybe her gloves were made of silk and that helped her contain her powers.
- Actually, this is pretty simple. When she was wearing gloves, she didn't want to use her powers, had no idea how strong she was, and wanted to keep everything hidden, the gloves were to stop her from icing over anything that touched her skin. When she was shackled she was a somewhat liberated, uber powerful Frost Witch who darned well wanted to get free and knew what she was capable of.
- The gloves give her a barrier between herself and the world, even if it's only in her mind. Notice at the coronation how she visibly relaxes once she puts the gloves back on? And how the ones that her father gave her as a child were thin, silk gloves that wouldn't stop the wind, let alone the powers of a Physical God? The gloves basically function as a Security Blanket for her. Throwing her glove away on the mountaintop thus becomes another symbol of her growing up and leaving the past behind her.
- Elsa's powers get stronger as she gets more stressed. By the time she is locked in the cell, she's so stressed that not even metal shackles can contain her powers.
- Note that Elsa was able to transform her coronation gown into her Snow Queen outfit. That validates the notion that the gloves were a psychological crutch, and not an actual limiting factor on her powers. By the time she was a teenager she did not want even her family touching her at all, gloves or no gloves. They may have given her a sense of security. But she still tended to stand with her hands clasped close to her body, even with the gloves on, and declined a dance when asked at the coronation ball.
Trading with Weselton
- Probably not very relevant, but why did Elsa decide to end Arendelle's business with Weselton? I mean, sure, the duke was an insufferable prick, but is that really a good enough reason to break relations with your biggest trading partner because of one corrupt duke (who might not be the one to hold ruling authority in Weselton in the first place)?
- The Duke had tried to kill Queen Elsa, the head of state of an allied nation. This is an act of war, not merely being a prick. In real-life wars have stared over less, even in real-life, so Elsa declaring war on Weselton would not only be plausible, but an approved action in their political climate. If the only consequence was Weselton was losing Arendelle as a trade partner, they got off with a slap on the wrist, especially considering the magnitude of Elsa's powers.
- The Duke gave the orders in a low tone. How could anyone prove that he ordered them to kill Elsa? And why would the Duke admit to it?
- Because both men are wearing Weselton's uniform, which Elsa clearly recognizes from the coronation (Elsa probably also recognizes the men in question as being the Duke's soldiers, since she did see them respond to the Duke's order to stop her). They are also the only two people trying to attack her as opposed to capture her, and they clearly are not shooting at her out of panic or desperation; you can tell (and presumably Elsa can see) that they have the concentrated and emotionless looks of professional hitmen. Meanwhile, the rest of them are Arendelle soldiers and Hans, who are trying to talk to her and who want to bring her back to Arendelle alive. The Duke might not admit it, but killing a foreign queen (even a witch one) probably isn't something a pair of nameless thugs wouldn't decide on their own and Elsa's sharp enough to know that. Particularly when the Duke was the first one to start screaming "monster!" There also could have been off-screen imprisonment and/or interrogation of the Duke and/or the henchmen.
- This isn't a direct answer to your question, but I think it's worth noting a few things: 1) the Duke is introduced by an Arendelle servant as being from "Weaseltown" even at the beginning - conceivably an accident, but also possibly indicating a long-standing rivalry; 2) the Duke claims that Weselton is Arendelle's biggest trading partner but he also claims to be good at dancing (or so he thinks); and 3) at the end, when the Duke is told trade is cut off, we also see another foreign delegate agreeing to take Hans back to the Southern Isles, and being thanked by a representative of Arendelle. Elsa clearly spent some time talking to her guests and making arrangements to clean up her mess. She had time to think about her decision and to make new arrangements if necessary to compensate for the lost trade.
- These three points are plausible, as well as a few more. Weselton may not be 'Weaseltown', but language studies would suggest that the 'ton' in Weselton means that it mostly consists of a large town or a small city with connections to trade routes, as well as some surrounding land; a feudal duchy, not a kingdomnote . Also, the fact that Kai, who is trained and accustomed to talk politely and know countries like the back of his hand, calls the country 'Weaseltown' implies that Weselton is a) militarily weak, b) is a pain in the ass to have diplomacy with, and c) held in contempt by the majority of countries present. All in all, even if the Duke were to bring about war on Arendelle, it would probably get scorn from the other kingdoms and nations, as well as great problems with trade with all of its partners - not to mention Arendelle's military is likely to prevail, or that Elsa could easily freeze the sea around Weselton, preventing it from both trading and launching a fleet.
- A duke is a relatively (considering the ranks we are talking about here) low ranking member of the royalty, coming in below King, Archduke, Grand Duke, and Prince. This implies that, whatever power he has, the Duke has a Prince or King over him. When he is returned to Weselton in chains with a message from Elsa that basically says, "Because your man here tried to have her killed, Queen Elsa of Arendelle is severing all business ties with you until further notice", it is meant as a message to whatever monarch the Duke is under that he has royally screwed up and that monarch needs to un-screw the situation, likely at the Duke's expense, if they hope to regain Arendelle as an ally/partner.
- That being said, the Duke's superior might very well realize that he cannot be trusted with the responsibility representing Weselton in foreign affairs and may therefore strip him of his job and replace him with someone who is much more trustworthy.
- Unless Weselton is an independent duchy rather than a city within a kingdom.
- No it's not. For example, the younger brother of the heir to the throne of England (the Prince of Wales- though the current one, for added confusion, is also titled Duke of Cornwell) is officially titled "The Duke of York." Not only are Dukes high-ranking nobilty, some are princes and even expected to inherit the throne.
- Also, the Dukes of Saxe-Colburg actually were rulers of a small nation, as were the Dukes of Tuscany, and others.
- Within the period there is still such a notion as a 'city state'. Size doesn't necessarily relate to economic and political impact, particularly in terms of trading nations and who controls critical ports.
- It's also worth noting that it's the Duke who refers to Arendelle as their "biggest trade partner" not the other way around. Arendelle's top trade partner could be someone else. That could mean that while Weselton's trade industry would suffer, Arendelle's might not.
- In addition to everything else, there's also the question of if the Duke's response to Elsa's revealing her powers might have been aberrant enough to prompt sanctions from countries in addition to Arendelle. Although everyone seems surprised to see that Elsa has powers, the Duke is the only one to call her a sorceress. Given that it's confirmed that magic use is rare but not unheard of in the Frozen and Tangled continuity, it's entirely possible that the behavior of the duke and his close subjects (particularly his soldiers attempting to kill her after she had surrendered peacefully) could be seen as extreme bigotry, (the latter possibly also as a war crime).
- It's probably a free Duchy like has already been said. This was extremely common and The Holy Roman Empire and Italy were lousy with them up until their respective unifications. Being a duke has NEVER explicitly meant you were under someone or the brother or whatever of a king. Duchies just tended to be smaller and less powerful. There was a clear line of power based in the title a ruler had- free city, Duchy, kingdom, empire, etcetera. Elsa is a QUEEN, meaning her nation is obviously bigger and more powerful than Weaselton, which was only a duchy...
- When the royal family first visits the trolls, the trolls apparently recognize the king on sight. Yet trolls are thought to be a myth by the people of Arendelle, so how do they have that kind of knowledge of what the king looks like? Further, when Kristoff brings Anna to their home, no mention is made of how she is a princess despite the aforementioned knowledge of the royalty of Arendelle. That their adopted son is in love with a princess is something you would think would at least be noticed.
- Was Agdar not in uniform? Perhaps the trolls know enough of Arendelle to recognize how the royal family would dress. As far as Anna goes, maybe that was part of "Fixer Upper". The trolls are gold diggers! Ha!
- Well how exactly are you supposed to recognize a girl who is now 18 years old when you first saw her at age five once? Plus Anna was wearing a cloak over her dress and she didn't really look very princess-like at the time. And Anna hadn't been outside the palace for 13 years, so they would have a slim chance of knowing what she looks like these days.
- Plus, it's made clear that the trolls don't get human visitors that often (Kristoff being the obvious exception), so it's likely they'd remember what the few that they *have* seen look like. And as far as I can tell, Anna's the only human with strawberry-blonde hair and white streaks in it, a clear sign of the snow magic that had affected her years prior.
- The king immediately went to the Trolls when Anna got hit with the ice magic, and he knew exactly where to find them. It's pretty obvious that both parties had prior knowledge of each other.
- Actually, the king didn't know where to find them; he has to consult a map in a book to know where to go.
- How the trolls recognized King Agdar is pretty easy; it's the same way some Canadian kid who's never even been to England would recognize Queen Elizabeth II. Agdar's face is all over Arendelle's currency, which people might have given the trolls as payment for spells or something, or maybe just dropped in terror when rocks started coming alive around them. But Anna wouldn't be on any money, as the second princess (nor would Elsa most likely, since she was only just coronated only a few days ago, and it would take some time for the Arendelle money presses to be modified to print Elsa's image on new Arendelle money thrown into circulation), so the trolls wouldn't recognize them.
- If we want to get really technical here, only two trolls seemed to recognize King Agdar: the troll that says "It's the king!" and Grand Pabbie; everyone else just kinda took their word for it and stared in awe, so it's possible that no one else recognized Anna.
- Given that Agdar has a reliable way of locating the trolls that is kept secret from everyone else, coupled with the fact that he thinks of the idea of going to them so quickly, it's likely that the royal family has had dealings in the past with the trolls, who obviously view themselves as loyal subjects (given how quickly the Grand Pabbie acknowledges the King and how he immediately begins administering treatment to Anna), but they aren't supposed to call on them for every little thing (hence why Agdar can't remember on his own where the trolls live and has to consult a map). Odds are that maybe meeting the trolls is part of the coronation/rite of passage for monarchs in Arendelle, but Elsa missed it from a combination of her father being dead and her having her freak out before that could happen.
- This is validated by the fact that Agdar apparently knew exactly which book to look for in the library, and didn't seem to bother to stop to read it, just to get the map hidden inside of it. It is worth noting that many ancient traditions hold to the idea of there being a special connection between a sovereign and their land. The trolls, being strongly associated with elemental earth, may share this view and regard the monarch as the metaphysical embodiment of the kingdom and not just a person in fancy dress clothes.
- I like this, as the trolls' existence doesn't seem to be common knowledge. Anna's clearly totally unaware that such things were real.
Wait a minute Hans, where's your ring?
- How come not even ONE person asked Hans about the wedding vows? Not only there is no witness of such event (which is understandable),Hans doesn't have the wedding ring on his finger. Basically, he has NOTHING to prove his rights to the throne of Arendelle. Okay, i understand that Arendelle is in deep crisis because of the eternal winter, but were they REALLY going to accept that someone guy who came here just few days ago is their king because he claims he married a princess who died seconds later? Anyone could say that!
- He and Anna asked Elsa to marry them at the coronation in the presence of multiple witnesses. Also, Anna previously left him in charge, and he proved himself caring about the people in their time of need. This should be enough proof not to question Hans' authority at the time of a succession crisis, not to mention the problem with eternal winter that still needs to be resolved.
- A ring is not necessary, but two witnesses are, and Hans' account of their vows and Anna's death does not mention any witnesses.
- Agreed with the above explanation, but would like to also add that many witnesses also witnessed Anna telling Hans to "kiss me right now" before giving them privacy. She clearly was into him. Also, a ring is not technically needed for a marriage.
- Consider also that at the point this is all happening, Elsa is unknowingly destroying the kingdom with magic snow and has been imprisoned, her sister — who, the last anyone here saw or heard, was clearly not far from death — has apparently just died and they're all in imminent danger of freezing to death. At this point, they're probably just functioning in a crisis-mode state of thought where they want to get the immediately pressing we're-in-imminent-danger-of-freezing-to-death problem sorted out first and then address all the legal niceties.
- It wouldn't be difficult in the slightest for Hans to bribe or pressure two servants into saying they were in the room, and heard the vows. That's a detail to be fussed out after the fact.
- Hans' general MO is Bavarian Fire Drill now, while everyone's panicking, tie up the loose ends later (or not; he may show no sign of the explosive temper often associated with The Sociopath, but maybe 'impulsiveness' explains why not all of his schemes, on close inspection, are as thought-through as they seem.)
Troll memory magic, part two
- The trolls changed Anna's memory so instead of making a snowman in the middle of the room, she remembers that she and Elsa were building ordinary snowman, during ordinary winter. While being OUTSIDE the palace. Why Anna never questioned her parents on the fact the she remembers that once she and Elsa were allowed to go outside (I suspect they weren't from the start, that's why Elsa was making snow INSIDE the castle) and now not only they can't leave, they can't even meet each other?
- Remember they are princesses and Elsa is the heir to the throne. Their parents could simply say that Anna, as she is getting older, should start to behave like a proper princess - which means, no contact with commoners of any kind. And Elsa, as the next in line for the throne, is way too busy with learning all those things needed for a queen to have time for her sister. It would have worked even better if Anna also got a set of things she is "supposed to" learn to be a Proper Lady.
- And as for the fact that Elsa was making snow inside, in the particular scene that's shown, it's the middle of the night when Anna and Elsa get up to play. They're probably not going to be running outside in the middle of the night, and they live in a castle with lots of huge empty rooms, so why not just go to the closest ballroom to play? It's closer, safer, and warmer than going outside.
- As for why she never questioned her parents on why they're not allowed to go outside any more, even if we remove the 'magical ice powers' element Anna had still suffered a head injury and, even when becoming a teenager, was clearly very naturally disposed towards being clumsy; it would not be that hard for her parents to concoct a story about how, say, she banged her head after slipping on some wet rocks while playing outside and had a severe concussion, and told her that it was too dangerous for her to play outside the castle grounds any more.
Was Anna neglected by her parents?
- Think about it. During "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?", Anna is all alone. The only time she is seen with her parents is when she hugs them goodbye.
- Plus, we also see them more with Elsa and Anna by herself because it's establishing the drama of Elsa's developing powers and her struggles to hide them and her increasing disconnect from Anna — for all we know, their parents devoted as much time as they could to Anna when they weren't dealing with Elsa's problems, we just didn't see it because it wasn't relevant to the story that was being told.
- Anna's relationship with her parents seems to be relatively warm and loving during the few times when they are shown together, so it doesn't seem particularly likely. In fact, her ability to let her parents leave without trouble and trust that they'll return (as unfortunate as that ends up turning out) is contrasted with Elsa's absolute horror at the idea that they're leaving, to help set up the difference between Anna's apparently normal relationship with her family and Elsa's terrified fear of losing them.
Ok, so why did Kristoff take her back?
After we find out that only love can thaw Anna's frozen heart, the trolls suggest that perhaps True Love's Kiss would thaw her, and that makes Anna's mind cast immediately to Hans. Ok, I understand that. However, why did Kristoff agree to take her down to him? Didn't he say to her not a day before that "you can't marry someone you just met," and want to dissuade her from being with Hans? Why take her back, especially since he probably figured out by that time how much he cared about her?
- It doesn't matter what he wants. Anna is convinced that Hans is her true love. They're engaged, so as far as Kristoff knows, Hans thinks that, too. Whether or not it fits his standards doesn't matter anymore: Anna is dying and needs help now. He loves her so much that he's willing to take her back to her fiancé rather than see her die.
- Anna's mind doesn't cast back to Hans. Kristoff is the one who suddenly makes the connection between true love and Hans (despite his better judgement and earlier disbelief that Anna and Hans could genuinely be in true love, it's the only idea he can come up with), then tells/reminds/advises Anna that she needs to get back to Hans. Anna's own thoughts are elsewhere - throughout the troll's musical number (especially the "people make bad choices when..." lines) Anna is clearly thinking about Elsa and taking in the advice in relation to the recent confrontation with her sister, rather than being distracted about Hans, Kristoff or anyone else. If her freezing heart hadn't been in play to debilitate her, Anna probably would have returned to Elsa after hearing the trolls' advice and used their lessons to fix everything. When Kristoff says "we need to get you back to Hans", Anna's response is clearly dazed and confused, agreeing only because at that moment she's not thinking straight. Had Anna been more lucid she would likely have refused his idea and said, "No, we need to get back to the North Mountain. You heard the trolls: they're saying that my sister might be just as easily able to undo the damage."
- Kristoff may think that the commitment Anna made to Hans was stupid and probably made for all the wrong reasons, but it was made, and is still to be respected as a marital relationship (that might become something more substantial, in time- after all, Kristoff has never met Hans so can't judge how good a chance they have.) Hell, one could argue that Anna eschewing the emotional infidelity that proximity to Kristoff may be tempting her to and returning to her fiancé could count as an Act of True Love in itself. And as Kristoff really cares about her happiness, he probably wants to stop making it hard for her to do the right thing.
- In fact he takes her back for the same reason that he called her out for getting engaged so quickly in the first place: because under the Grumpy Bear exterior he's a guy with strong values and believes a promise to marry is a very serious step to be respected as such.
- I feel like Kristoff's self-esteem is on the low side, and it's combined with some denial. He doesn't really believe Anna could love him. Better that she get back to this prince who she does love and who loves her. The idea that Hans turns out to be... well... Hans, doesn't really occur to him (Kristoff suspected Hans might not be perfect but it wasn't like anyone could foresee him being like that). He's just too worried about Anna, to think about his own happiness. That's what Olaf meant.
Would killing Elsa have really solved the eternal winter?
- Do we have any prove that if the Duke of Weselton or Hans killed Elsa, the eternal winter would end? There were cases that the person responsible for a certain curse were the only one who could remove it, and killing her/him would mean that the curse were irreversible...
- No, but after Elsa stopped subconsciously supporting the winter, it likely would have eventually thawed by itself. Note that Hans only tries to kill Elsa as a last resort, and before that, tries to reason with her first, only switching to plan B after she reveals she doesn't know how to stop it. As for the Duke, he was prejudiced and not thinking rationally.
- Also, remember that this is basically fantasy Norway. Like its real world counterpart, summers are likely cool and brief. Elsa froze the fjord completely (no small thing) and covered the whole country in snow. Even if killing her stopped the magic that was steadily-intensifying the cold, it might not have made all the ice and snow vanish the way Elsa did at the end. Given how short summer is that far north, there was a very good chance that Arendelle would not have thawed completely before natural winter set in, at which point they would have been very thoroughly screwed over for all eternity.
Ice-obssesed guy seeks normal girl why?
- Kristoff loves ice. It's damn near a canon Cargo Ship. When he and Anna reach the ice palace, he wants to go in and explore, outright stating his love of ice. So, he starts dating the girl he has no romantic sparks with, who he knows full well has a sister who generates ice. The first two thirds of movie, up through Hans' Face–Heel Turn sets up the idea that Elsa and Kristoff will hit it off over their mutual love of ice, and that still could have happened after Hans. In fact, that would make more sense then the Kristoff-Anna Romantic Plot Tumor.
- Because just because you like something doesn't mean you're going to look for it in your love interests. Ironically, the ice likes ice attraction is one of the main reasons Elsa and Jack Frost are being shipped so much.
- I saw Kristoff's ice-love as a Red Herring towards his attraction to Elsa, making Hans' Evil All Along reveal all the more surprising. Also, Kristoff and Elsa are both pretty similar in temperament, Anna works the Opposites Attract angle.
- Uh, guys? When was it ever so much as hinted that Kristoff is attracted to Elsa in any way? And what on earth makes you think Elsa would so readily reciprocate just because the guy "loves ice?" Loving ice is different than wanting to date a girl with ice powers, and just because Elsa has these powers doesn't mean she shares the same "love" for it as Kristoff. Plus, even if you honestly think that has anything to do with his love life, isn't it just as good to be dating a girl whose sister makes ice, or for that matter to live in a kingdom ruled by such a person?
- And consider the personality traits that Elsa and Kristoff do have in common- neither of them open up or socialise very easily. It's going to be a long courtship if they have to take her sister and his reindeer on every date for the first year or so, and if you have hangups about mixing with people, someone who has similar problems isn't always the best person to form a relationship with. (It's not much more sensible than Anna's idea that she and Hans were meant for each other because they're both seemingly quite childish. Even on the face of it, being with someone just like themselves can bring out the worst in a person, not the best.)
- I like burritos, but that doesn't mean I'm fated to fall in love with somebody who cooks in a Mexican restaurant.
- Actually there's something in that. Kristoff may be the biggest fan ever of Elsa as an 'artist', but that doesn't mean he has to enter a romantic relationship with her. He might even admire her enough to annoy most girlfriends or wives if he hadn't happened to hook up with a woman who had Elsa at the centre of her life.
- It makes for a good fake-out for the viewers, especially with Kristoff's blond hair. But at the start, he's not really thinking about love; he's thinking about his ice business. Once Anna has gotten him to open up a little, you also realize that he is consistently aware that he is basically the scrapings off society's boots, aka the bottom of the barrel. Then in the Ice Palace, Anna and Elsa are arguing. I always assumed that Kristoff was wandering around downstairs saying "This is freaking AWESOME. I want to get to know the chick who did this - and I mean know her really well!" Then he hears the argument getting worse and worse. "Uh-oh, that doesn't sound good." He runs up the stairs and gets there just in time to see Anna take a blast of ice magic to the heart, as we see him catch her. Elsa doesn't want to know Kristoff, and Kristoff realises that Elsa is very dangerous. Okay, time to go. And on top of that, Elsa creates Marshmallow, who makes a spirited attempt at killing them. That sort of thing is kind of off-putting. By the time Elsa isn't crazy, Kristoff is in love with Anna.
- Why would Anna's clothes turn to ice when her body did? I understand that the Doylist explanation is that it looks better for everything to be frozen, but can anybody offer a reasonable in-universe reason for her clothes to turn to ice as well?
- Not to be *that* guy or anything but magic. Maybe her heart froze with enough spare energy to freeze her clothes as well?
- Same reason that Medusa turns people to statues with stone clothes: It's easier and it (arguably) looks cooler.
- Anything touching her skin froze, probably. Her clothes were snuggled right up to her freezing body, so the magic froze them too.
- This would also support the sword-shattering thing—because it was only in contact for a split second (right at the moment the transformation reached the spot it hit), it was supercooled (making it extremely brittle) but not turned completely to ice. The shockwave could then have been caused by the magic escaping or shorting out when it shattered.
Just how wrong were the king and queen?
- So it's pretty much a fact that hiding Elsa away from the world was not a good idea and teaching her to fear her powers was wrong. However, was teaching her to keep her emotions in check really so wrong? When Elsa is growing up and is scared of her magic, her father tells her, "getting upset only makes it worse." And he's right. Sure, Elsa's figures out how to stop the winter by the end of the movie, but she's still not very much in control of her emotions. What if sometime in the future she loses her temper and freezes Arendelle over again? Consider a person in real life who has anger issues and lashes out at people when they get angry. You would teach them to control their anger and not let it get the best of them right? Elsa's parents were trying to teach her to control her emotions, not suppress them. I think a lot of people forget that.
- That's true, but they still did a piss poor job of it either way. Perhaps their deaths had something to do with it but at the end of the day Elsa still grew up terrified of herself and her parents have a good deal of the blame for that. It seems that based on Elsa's sayings, "conceal, don't feel", "be the good girl you always have to be" her parents equated suppressing her emotions to controlling them. And it worked right up until she snapped.
- There's some belief that it was a misunderstanding on Elsa's part, hence the shortening of the mantra from "conceal it, don't feel it" to "conceal, don't feel." The king wasn't trying to teach her to control her emotions so much as stop thinking about her powers. That's what "conceal it, don't feel it" was about: his idea of how Elsa should control her powers was like ignoring an itch so you don't scratch it, or act like it's not there. By misunderstanding, Elsa dropped the two "it"s from the mantra, making it "conceal, don't feel," and thus, made it "don't feel emotion or the powers will manifest themselves".
- Controlling her emotions was about keeping calm and working through the manifestation. You can think about it like learning a new skill. Don't allow your frustration at failures to prevent you from focusing on the task of learning. With enough practice, everything will start falling into place until it becomes easier and easier.
- Agdar wasn't trying to help Elsa control her powers; he was helping her to restrain them. They knew that her powers flared out of control when Elsa felt strong emotions, such as the time she shot Anna in the head in panic, so he was trying to make her into The Stoic in order to suppress her powers. Unfortunately, that backfired because they didn't give her a healthy outlet for her emotions, leading to her powers manifesting out of her control whenever she got emotional about something. Given how quickly she was accused of sorcery, it's not surprising that he did this, but it's the source of the problem in the film: If Elsa had found a healthy outlet for her emotions instead of bottling them up, she wouldn't have been having the outbursts that lead to her self-imposed exile.
- How about this: that King Agdar, like most of the north European elite of the 19th century, was also brought up to be The Stoic- meaning that he's a rather repressed man who's horribly ill-equipped to deal with a child like Elsa. This is, after all, the generation most associated with the Madwoman in the Attic trope.
- Also, as this was the 19th century, Agdar, even if he referred to doctors, would be using pre-Freudian psychology. As in "pre-psychology-actually-existing". The whole concept of giving Elsa a "healthy outlet for emotions" is a new concept, and quite frankly, the whole concept of emotional health didn't exist back then.
- Also, even if the King understood that it wasn't so much that Elsa needed to get a tighter grip on herself (which is Elsa's interpretation, and it doesn't work) just saying to someone "Relax, stop worrying!" doesn't work when it's coming from someone who's very worried themselves. This was why Anna could lead Elsa to her breakthrough when their father never found the way.
- What proof do we have that Elsa truly did set off an eternal winter? There's about one day between Elsa's initial freak out that froze everything and Anna telling her she froze everything, making her freak out again. If everything was going to thaw naturally, it might take more time than that. Note that the weather seems pretty calm and sunny when Elsa is herself calm. Why does everyone in-universe and out assume the winter is never going away unless Elsa counters it herself?
- Most likely because it's been brought on by magic. Not to mention, the duke does say that the temperature is getting colder and colder, so there was the very real worry that even if the winter didn't last forever, everybody in Arendelle might have frozen to death before it thawed.
- The only ice thing Elsa makes that is ever shown to melt of its own accord is Olaf, and a previous guess notes that perhaps her "living ice" magic isn't as stable as the rest, because life itself isn't eternal but ice and snow is in some places like mountaintops and Antarctica. It can be assumed that the rooms she froze in the castle before the events of the film were melted by love subconsciously, because natural heat doesn't melt her ice, as seen when the firelit room Anna is in freezes over. Presumably, since Arendelle seems to have reasonably hot summers based on how fast Olaf starts to melt, if natural heat could thaw, the summer temperatures would have. Since they didn't, it makes sense that everyone in-universe assumed that the winter was eternal. Out of universe, like I said; only Olaf ever melts due to natural heat. Unless Elsa wishes it through love, the snow won't melt. That's why her dress didn't melt despite the summer, and why Olaf's personal flurrymakes it cold for him, but doesn't leave snow deposits on the ground around him.
- Olaf may be the only ice that melts on his own, but he is also the only bit we see having prolonged exposure to intense heat without additional magic fueling it. The fire freezing over can easily be that the cold Elsa was outputting was enough to overcome the heat of the fire. Arendelle is based off a Danish fairy tale and Kristoff is explicitly a Sami, the indigenous people of Norway, Sweden, etc. That indicates that their summers aren't particularly hot. I'm no weather expert, but I suspect that a massive cold front like the one Elsa generated wouldn't just go away. Especially since there's only one day in between Elsa's initial freak out that caused the winter and Anna's visit, which made her freak out again. That one day did have reasonably nice weather, sunny and windless, and when Elsa is fueling the winter the weather gets worse again. Leading to the question, what if she just stopped fueling it?
- Elsa left a frozen trail during her trip to visit the trolls. Obviously, it melted rather sooner than later, and it should have done on its own.
- The only person who outright calls it eternal is Anna, who isn't exactly notable for thinking before she acts.
How isolated was Elsa?
- It's made clear that growing up, Elsa was secluded in her room for a lot of the time, and that she did not interact with Anna they way she did when they were little. When they talk at the coronation, Anna is clearly nervous, uncomfortable, and unused to talking to Elsa. However, just how isolated was she? It seems unlikely that Elsa would have literally lived out her entire childhood and adolescence in her room, or that she never spoke to Anna at all in the years they grew up. After all, she does come out to say goodbye to her parents. Did Anna and Elsa ever pass in the hallways of the castle, or have meals together with their parents? Just how often did Anna and Elsa see each other after Elsa decided to shut herself away?
- According to the picture book, Elsa did come out of her room but she wore gloves and didn't speak to Anna.
- In particular it has Elsa knowing how Anna dresses, how messy Anna's room is; Anna knowing that Elsa liked proper tea, and was cooped up in the study (not bedroom) and enjoying it (the weirdo.) There's even a picture of Elsa watching (in a dressing room mirror) Anna run by, with a smile on both faces.
- You don't have to never meet for your younger sibling to want to spend more time with you.
- Elsa wasn't necessarily completely isolated. Do You Wanna Build a Snowman is mostly about wanting to play and be "best buddies" again, and only after their parents' death does Anna say "People are asking where you've been." (If she had been completely shut up for ten years or so by that point, they would surely have ceased to bother.) Most likely Elsa moved about the castle freely and participated in family things, but avoided being alone with Anna, and especially playing with her. After all, it was in exactly that situation that she hurt Anna. Whenever Anna's nagging got to her, she shut herself in her room, to keep Anna away for both of their sakes (she thought).
- Agreed, but I would still say that Elsa spent the better part of her time in her room.
- Also, Elsa would probably have just been making excuses for various things of pressing time, like how she pawned Anna off on the Duke of Weaseltown (WESELTON!) because she doesn't dance. Especially after their parents died, Elsa probably had a lot of tutoring on her duties and international relations. Who knows how she would have handled any meetings.
- I think Elsa is allowed to leave her own room, but her various 'issues'- shame, depression, generalised anxiety- mean that she starts to avoid doing so if she could.
- A Sister More Like Me says that Elsa 'needed peace and quiet'. In other words, she's an introvert. Introverted people often need a certain amount of 'alone time' and it's not necessarily unhealthy for them.
- While their talk at the coronation is awkward, it does not feel like it's the first time they see each other in years. And for Anna to have developed theories about why Elsa always wears Conspicuous Gloves, she would have to have seen her sporting them more than once before. So they probably saw each other occasionally. Also, they certainly received some tutoring befitting their status (although, given her condition, Elsa maybe got hers from her parents only). Finally, it's implied that both sisters are wearing a corset, and I don't think it's a garment you can put on by yourself.
- They could have always had a servant, like Gerda, help them with the corset.
- A number of fanfics go with the idea that Anna and Elsa did interact as much as they did before, just that Elsa couldn't be alone with Anna in the same room.
Grand Pabbie, it's all your fault!
- I've got the impression that it wasn't the childhood accident that traumatized Elsa so much. Yeah, she seemed scared at first but mostly calmed down after Pabble healed(more or less) Anna. And then he just HAD to show her that it is entirely possible that the townspeople will treat her as a monster and kill her. Actually, i think this was one of the reasons why Queen and King kept Elsa in the castle - not only so she wouldn't hurt anyone but also so she wouldn't get hurt (and looking at the Duke of Weselton, you have admit they had a point in doing that). But was it really necessary to show her that? If he kept that thing to himself (or told quietly the King and Queen that Elsa's power may be dangerous), Elsa probably would be much less scared to use her powers, practised them more often and thus gain control of them much sooner. That way, the whole "isolate the whole castle from the outside world" situation would have ended much earlier. But how was she supposed to use her powers if after injuring her younger sister she is bluntly told she may be considered a monster by her subjects? And her parents were as much terrified of what the troll said as she was?
- I think it's fair to say that trolls think differently than humans. Presumably, they did not correctly guess how the royal family would react to the knowledge.
- Agreed. Grand Pabbie was trying to tell the King that "Fear will be the enemy" i.e. Elsa needs to accept her powers rather than live in fear of what would happen if she lost control. The royals misunderstood this incredibly clear, non-vague message. The Grand Pabbie tends to give advice in ways that can be interpreted in many ways, such as his "act of true love" hint later.
- Actually, what the image shows is a little ambiguous- an adult version of Elsa stands between two groups of people, casting magic, which seems to explode overhead- the people's gestures go from wonder to terror, and then the whole thing is sucked inwards- may have appeared as the people pouncing on Elsa but may also have just been Grand Pabbie collapsing the illusion. True, Elsa and her father probably saw it in the most threatening way possible, but they were both still on edge at the time given what had just happened to Anna.
Did they really think it was normal?
- Okay, so Queen and King spend most of their time in Elsa's room. So they MUST have heard Anna's singing about how she wants to play with her sister and how she's bored. And they didn't anything with it? Were they thinking that it is an absolutely normal behavior for a child to spend every day singing at her sister's bedroom door? They could make up something to tell Anna - even if it was the above explanation of how Elsa is busy with learning how to be a High Queen (etiquette, kingdom finances, basic law, how to not freeze the knight while giving him her blessing and so on) and that Anna should start to behave like a princess too.
- I think the singing was just a narrative device rather than something she actually did for a significant portion of the time. And there is no reason to think that such an explanation was given, but Anna was lonely enough that it did not help.
- Or, as above, the isolation wasn't so much enforced by the parents as by Elsa herself. There's only so much you can do by telling a child to go play someone when said child clearly doesn't want to. Furthermore, the king and queen aren't dealing with "normal", they're dealing with a child with ice powers, and making it up as they go along.
- Possibly they were aware that it wasn't optimal, but considered it a back burner problem compared to Elsa's trouble. When Anna eventually stopped asking Elsa to play, the thinking was likely, "Well that solved itself then."
- I'm sorry, but this keeps bugging me. If Elsa was queen, how was killing Anna treason? She's the Queen, so her word is law, and besides, royalty kill siblings all the time, especially in ye olden days.
- One, Frozen seems to take place in the Early Modern period rather than in the Middle Ages.note And even if Arendelle is an absolute monarchy (depending on how you see it, it's entirely possible that Arendelle's government could just as easily be a constitutional monarchy, but that's not the point), it still doesn't give Elsa the right to murder people without reason, especially her own royal family. If Elsa really wanted to kill Anna (she didn't, but again, that's not the point), there should at least have been a trial and execution per due process, otherwise the indiscriminate spilling of royal blood could well provoke a revolt and/or foreign intervention from other kingdoms. Besides, by that point, Elsa had already been imprisoned for summoning the winter and it hadn't helped matters, so the nobles were probably just eager for any excuse to get rid of her.
- Killing the heir presumptive to the throne without proper legal process would be treason in many jurisdictions, even if the killer is the monarch.
- That line also might about been about 'she's clearly betrayed the country by 'attacking' us with winter and killing the heir'. Even if it's not the case, one simply has to say that in Arendelle, it is treason to kill anyone of the royal family without just cause.
- It's a matter of a number of very delicate circumstances. When Elsa exiled herself, she effectively renounced the throne to her sister Anna. Thus, Princesses Rule came in play as Anna became Arendelle's official ruler. Anna left Hans in charge when she went to find Elsa, so Hans became the acting ruler. Hans rules over Arendelle for most of the winter spell (three days or so), before the official ruler, Anna, comes back. Anna has been struck by her sister, who exiled herself but is still evidently within the kingdom (as Oaken is one of her subjects despite living far out in the woods). Therefore, Elsa, now little more than a peasant all but in title, fatally struck the kingdom's then-official ruler, Princess Anna, who then returns to the castle with this news that she's dying because of the exiled Queen. Then, as far as anyone's concerned, Anna, still the official ruler of Arendelle, weds Hans, which gives Hans official rule in Arendelle, rather than acting rule as he is the husband of the kingdom's current ruler. When Anna dies, that leaves Hans the sole person ruling the kingdom, as Anna has died and Elsa is no longer an official ruler. She's the ruler only in title (why Hans calls her "Queen Elsa"), but she has no actual power. Hans claiming to be married to Anna was to give him official status as Arendelle's prince, not just to make it look like he's acting the part of a grieving widower. Because Hans was the sole official ruler of Arendelle (again, as far as anyone but he and Anna knew), he could charge Elsa with treason for murdering one of the kingdom's official rulers. No different than someone murdering a Queen. That's just my take on it, though. So, Hans was the official ruler of Arendelle at the time he issued the order, not Elsa.
- This film REALLY needed a Regent who could point out how pathetically unstable Hans' claim to the throne was. First he was put in temporary command by Anna - who as a princess has no right to do so. He 'married' Anna without a priest, documents, or witnesses, and she died minutes later, and nobody even has a body yet. Elsa, Sorceress or not, has just been crowned the queen, and is legally so until an official abdication. And yet the lords accept Hans' order to execute her.
- Additionally the Regent could have gone to fetch Kristoff. It would have made his return more believable - despite not knowing that Hans' kiss wouldn't work or even that Elsa was in danger, Kristoff was riding Sven really Big Damn Heroes.
- As pointed out on the Trivia page, there was going to be a regent in the film, but he was ultimately cut for time purposes.
- Actually King Charles I of England was found guilty and executed for treason (though he did have a full trial before a relatively- relatively compared to Hans anyway- well-recognized authority, even though he didn't cooperate with it.) Actually it took place in a relatively early-modern state in which there were statutes limiting the power of the King which the King had unquestionably overstepped, but it shows that this is at least possible. (Although Charles didn't think that a king could commit treason either, which didn't help his case.)
- This example doesn't quite work. The execution of Charles I was done by native revolutionaries who took control of the state and saw the monarch as having betrayed the state for his own personal interests. Hans is a foreign usurper who has no authority in the kingdom to do anything. This scenario (usurping and (almost) killing a foreign head of state) playing out in real life would be an Act of War against Arendelle.
Anna the Child Bride
I just realized something that should be obvious: Elsa is the elder sibling who was crowned when she came of age. This makes Anna underage, so even if Elsa had been cool with her engagement with Hans, could they even get married? The way Anna talked about it made it sound like they were getting married next week.
- By coronation day, Elsa is 21 and Anna is 18. Old enough to get married.
- Could be like drinking age. By 18 Anna is legally an adult, but is still too young to officially occupy the throne.
- If Anna was underage, then her request for Elsa's blessing wasn't just a desire for her sister to be happy for her — she needed her legal guardian's official permission to get married.
- In the 1800s, "of age" meant 21. Of course, this is a Disney movie. Remember Ariel married off at 16, or when old enough to (in 21st century America at least) get a driver's license. Sleeping Beauty took place on Aurora's 16th birthday, and she was happily engaged by movie's end. Heck, not two generations ago, it was commonplace for couples to get married at 17-18.
- In many European legal traditions there was/is a gap- some of them as long as nine years- between an age where it's legal to marry with your parent/guardian's consent, and being 'of age', when one could marry without their involvement (legally- socially is another matter)
- Actually, there's more to this than some people might realize: In this time period, anyone in line to a throne needed to get permission from the monarch to marry. If they failed to get it and went ahead with the marriage, the monarch had legal grounds to cut them out of the line of succession. In other words, Anna's age is irrelevant, it's her status as the new queen's sister that's the problem. That's why she actually brings Hans to Elsa and asks Elsa for her blessings.
- On a related note, Hans should have been asking permission from the King of the Southern Isles (whether that be his father or one of his twelve older brothers) before he proposed- though since it looks like Hans came to Arendelle already intending to get hitched, he may have covered that matter of business in advance. A good real life exploration of what happens if one doesn't ask for blessing is what happened to either Mary or Catherine Grey, yes sisters of the nine day queen Lady Jane Grey.
- There's a chance that the worst that could happen as a result of Hans not having permission from the ruler of the Southern Isles is losing his place in their line and, since he deems it so low he doesn't hope to become King there, it'd not bother him. It's also possible that his place is low enough to exempt him from needing a permission.
Does Marshmallow know about summer?
Olaf somehow knows about that season but not what happens to snow (at least until the end, when Elsa made that cloud appear over Olaf's head to keep him cool). But does Marshmallow know about summer, let alone what happens to ice and snow around that time?
- Possibly. But he also probably doesn't care, if the north mountain is cold enough to sustain snow year-round.
- There are places in the Alps and the Himalayas where snow above 15,000 feet can last into the late summer, and there's a ski area in Oregon that operates year round, so it's easy to assume the natural weather that high on the North Mountain is probably pretty cold.
Elsa the queen.
- At the end of the movie, how did Elsa convince the people that she was still fit to rule after nearly destroying the kingdom, instead of abdicating the throne in favor of Anna?
- To be fair, take the two sisters' individual personalities into account. Elsa is calm, diplomatic and as the heiress apparent for the majority/all of her childhood was reared to be queen. Anna meanwhile is impulsive, naive and what's more, has no knowledge of how to rule a kingdom. Yes, Elsa inadvertently caused an eternal winter... but she got rid of it on her own. At the end of the film, she is clearly in control of her powers, so the people would've accepted her as their queen. Foreign enemies on the other hand...
- She may be in control of her powers, but I think the Duke of Weselton is not the only person in the world who would be prejudiced against Arendelle being ruled by an ice sorceress. There are a number of Fanfics that seem to support the possibility that some of the normal people in Arendelle probably will sport an excuse to hate Elsa because of other consequences stemming from the eternal winter.
- Anna probably wouldn't have accepted the throne, even if everyone insisted she take it. And with Elsa having control over her powers, it would be very beneficial to have her as the queen. Not only is she basically a One-Woman Army (Enemy army on the way by land? Cue a blizzard that grinds them to a halt because they're not prepared! Enemy navy sailing in? Just re-freeze the fjord so they can't get within striking distance!), but she can ensure that there's no damage from cold or ice, stop freak snowstorms, and give everyone all the winter fun they could want (courtyard-wide ice rink, anyone?)
- A near-inevitable counterargument would be that Elsa is not likely to abandon Arendelle if she is asked to step down by the populace. Of course if the populace would trust her as a linchpin of their defensive strategy... why on Earth would they not trust her as Head of State? Especially compared to, well, Anna?
- Another counter-argument, there were two foreign enemies who attempted assassination plots against her. All the freezing could be explained to all who were not in the need-to-know circle as defensive measures or part of either Hans's or the Duke's plot from the beginning. The counter argument would be coming from two people who were known have attempted regicide. It wouldn't be difficult to convince people.
- Seems like it would take a lot of courage to tell your home-grown Snow Queen who just froze the kingdom that you don't want her. This is probably not a person you want to make mad or angry.
- Considering Elsa could hardly be described as malevolent, it's doubtful she'd purposefully freeze someone or the kingdom for telling her she's not wanted.
- It doesn't matter what Elsa would do, all that matters in regards to that is what they think she'll do.
Line of succession after Anna.
- I don't think you can inherit a throne by marriage. If Elsa and Anna both died childless, by real traditions, the throne would pass to the late king's eldest brother (assuming Agdar had any brothers), then his children, etc. For Hans' plan to work, he'd have to kill Elsa before she married and had children. His power would derive from his marriage to Anna: he'd share power with Anna as a Prince Consort or, after Anna died, rule in the stead of their eldest son (or eldest daughter if they had no sons) until the young king/queen came of age as Prince(ss) Regent. And for that, his marriage to Anna needs to last at least nine months. To provide extra security, he'd want to father several children before killing her to take the regency.
- Either a Chessmaster was willing to put in a lot of time and effort into a plan that it would be common knowledge wouldn't work, or Arendelle's laws of succession are different. Considering they vary wildly in the real world, I don't think this is a problem.
- Actually, Hans' original plan (marry Anna, have Elsa whacked, use Anna as his puppet or simply claim authority on the basis of jure uxoris and Anna's lack of training) fits this line of succession very well. Once Elsa revealed her powers and ran off, everything was improvisation in the hopes of becoming a hero to either surviving sister and the populace at large. The attempted "Monster Slaying" at the end came off as a last resort move to become the peoples' choice through general heroism.
- Given how we see Anna act, it would seem like getting power from her would be simple. It just takes one night at a party to get her to trust him enough to leave him in charge of Arendelle. His plan very well could have been to slowly use her trust to get her to hand over more and more power and responsibilities to him, until he was doing everything important and Anna was basically just a figurehead.
- I doubt Hans would have had a problem with killing the mother of his children and brainwashing their first born successor into being his puppet so he could rule as the power behind the throne for the rest of his life.
- Why murder Anna when she'd be just as puppetable? He probably does like her and feel attracted to her- when he's been knocked under the boat in the fjörd, the audience sees him give a really sweet-looking, charmed smile at how cute Anna is. It's just as in-character for him to ply her up with sweet words for the rest of her life and then be able to brag back to his brothers in the Southern Isles that he got the willing hand of the beautiful Princess Anna of Arendelle and saved her from a wretched life with her mad, dangerous sister while quietly manipulating Anna into letting him basically rule.
- Simply put, Hans never planned on killing Anna. He planned on marrying her and killing Elsa. It's also not clear on whether he cared about actual ruling, just about having his own kingdom.
- This is actually how he almost becomes King at the end. Since there don't seem to be any other members of the royal family to fall back on (ignoring the Word of God that Rapunzel was Elsa and Anna's cousin), then Hans could be made a new king by virtue of the royal family going extinct and him saving the kingdom in their stead.
- That's the sort of thing succession wars are made of. Hans would be in the right to claim that Rapunzel was ineligible for the throne of Arendelle because she's the crown princess in line for the throne of Corona, another kingdom. Hans seemed to be banking on the scenario that if his claim were disputed by other royals that the people of Arendelle would side with him, going to war if necessary, and possibly that any family he has back in the Southern Isles would vouch for him, if only to pawn Hans off on somebody else.
- There's no particular reason why Arendelle's laws might not be entirely different from any real world rules regarding this sort of thing. Beyond that, though, Hans's actual goal may have been to have the wealth and prestige of being a king consort rather than to actually rule the kingdom. Not much of either comes with being number 13 in line for the throne, relatively speaking.
- Princes and Kings Consorts in the 19th century could often be more powerful than their title suggested anyway. This was partly because of how the era saw the role of a husband, and partly because, well, families the size of the one Hans comes from were more or less the norm for the ruling classes, and a combination of medical beliefs pre-modern medicine (that women needed bedrest for months before and after childbirth) and prudishness (that a proper lady never appear in public while visibly pregnant) meant that, for example, Queen Vicky didn't get much of a look-in politically for many years while siring her nine kids, so most of her duties were actually being taken by Prince Albert.
- Realistically, if you think about it, if Hans's goal was to get the prestige of being a Prince Consort or a King Consort, he probably wouldn't have needed to try to have Elsa assassinated. Even with Elsa alive, Hans has opportunity to make himself the man behind the woman to his wife or sister-in-law (depending on which sister was an easier one to marry). Elsa is a brilliant and smart girl, but she is a fragile shut-in who never had any say in whether she took power or not- he is about two years older than her, very cunning, is a powerful, charismatic personality and has enormous will to be a leader. Plus, as he's assessed that Elsa is unwilling to marry, as her brother-in-law it would still make him the highest-ranking male in the country, which- the world being the way it was in those days- would give him a lot of clout politically.
- You can in fact inherit a throne through marriage. In fact- quiet perfectly- this very thing has happened in the Kingdom of Sweden before. The Queen of Sweden (Ulrika Eleonora) married a guy then abdicated in his favor allowing him to rule even after her death. William and Mary of England are another example in which Mary the true person with a claim to the throne co-ruled with her husband who then continued to rule after her death. Ferdinand and Isabella of Aragon and Castille (essentially Spain), are another example with Ferdinand continuing to rule after her death. It's not unlikely that Anna would have been naïve enough to name Hans co-ruler. She had also named him "acting ruler" when she "died" so while it is a weak claim it is still a claim. And Hans was in the best position out of any other possible claimants to seize power since we was already defacto wielding it. I'm not saying that it would have been a stable situation, just that it was not in fact unlikely. However if Rapunzel really was a cousin of Arendelle's royal family, there's clearly people out there with better claims... And the power to back said claims up. Also Rapunzel being a Crown Princess set to inherit a throne would in NO WAY harm her claim to Arendelle's throne- it would have probably strengthened her claim next to Hans's- she's the third most powerful royal in her Kingdom and extremely high up in the line of succession for her family in general- vs lowly son with virtually no hope of inheriting anything from his own line. However it could damage her chances based upon the relative power of Corona and Arendelle. Much like how The War of The Spanish Succession was started to prevent the Bourbon Dynasty from attaining true ascendancy and forever upsetting the balance of power, if Arendelle and Corona were both powerful enough it's reasonable to assume that their neighbors would prefer them to remain separate. No one would want Rapunzel to go from Queen of a powerful kingdom, to Empress at the helm of an unstoppable empire- no matter how benevolent she may be.
How in the world was this originally supposed to end?
The official word is that Hans was not originally a villain, but if that had been the case, there would have been no one to attack Elsa in the climax and, thus, no need for Anna to save her. So where was their "act of true love" originally going to come from? How could Anna have possibly been saved in a version of the story without another villain attacking her sister? Unless the entire story was vastly, vastly changed, the whole "made a villain at the last minute" claim seems exaggerated — the character couldn't have been changed to a villain that late in the writing process for the story to work.
- Elsa was originally a villain. We can only assume that the original script was very different from the final version.
- They were still writing the songs when Elsa was changed to an Anti-Villain. And "Let It Go" was the first song written. The songs and voice-overs are recorded earlier than animation is completed. After realising Elsa wouldn't be the main villain, they likely changed tack and did some heavy rewriting.
- This is more or less explained by the Spring Pageant outtake on the deluxe soundtrack album. In the original concept of the film, there was a troll prophecy about unending winter, that seemed to ambiguously imply that killing someone with a sword would end the curse. It also casts Elsa in a bad light as a "ruler with a frozen heart." With Elsa's bad attitude in the original script, it's easy to see a misguided or jerky-but-not-villainous character being inspired to stab her in the hopes of saving Arendelle.
With blasts of cold will come dark artAnd a ruler with a frozen heartAll will perish in snow and iceUnless you are freed with a sword sacrifice
- Come on, all we need to do is eliminate that Bond Villain speech, change it to a "I'm sorry. I don't love you. I just wanted your kingdom. However, I will avenge you and make this right", and Hans's motivations could easily be that of a misguided good guy.
- Which could explain why Hans was shifted from a mere Admiral to a 'spare' prince in his own right: the Admiral quite liked Anna but had to ultimately admit that her most attractive feature was the wealth promotion to royalty that came with her- presumably the Admiral wasn't set on getting rid of the sister and making himself king. That would make his gold-digging motives just about acceptably grey without their being the dastartlyist dastardliness that Hans eventually commits. After all, the shocking thing about Hans' attitude to the marriage isn't that it's mercenary (that's hereditary power for you) but the deceitful way he behaves about it. Plus, a low-born Admiral could feasibly have really needed the status of a wife above his station to be accepted, so made more sympathetic.
No dating before marriage? How 18th century of you.
- Why is Anna marrying Hans after a day treated like it's absurd and archaic by Elsa and Kristoff? This a story which is presumably taking place in the 18th/19th century, where arranged marriages would still be fairly common. I understand that the film is an Anachronism Stew and that the aesop revolves around deconstructing love at first sight. But it just seems completely inconsistent with the time period that characters would find the absence of courtship between Anna and Hans so shocking.
- There's a difference between an arranged political marriage and meeting some guy at a party and deciding that you're in love and must get married immediately—making that sort of decision in a fit of unthinking passion is one of the things arranged marriages are supposed to prevent.
- An arranged political marriage would have required correspondence between Elsa (as Anna's guardian) and Hans's family. This would have taken several months as letters went back and forth, during which a proper courtship could take place. Elsa and Kristoff are more shocked at the speed with which Anna entered the engagement, than with there actually being an engagement to begin with. If Hans hadn't done something obviously treasonous, their engagement would have been legally binding and breaking it would have caused offence and embarrassment on all sides.
- In most real-life cases, a member of the royal family—especially the heir apparent—had to get the permission of the monarch to marry. Elsa explicitly stated that Anna and Hans did not have her permission as queen. The "engagement" was therefore nonexistent and not legally binding.
- Not to mention that this movie is clearly not historically accurate. We have no idea what is normal in Arandelle, except that marrying a guy you just met isn't.
- And even in arranged marriages, the betrothed wouldn't first meet on their wedding day. The families usually made sure their was some interaction before marriage, sometimes going as far as to send the bride to live with her future husband's family.
- If we're going by courtship norms of the 18th/early 19th century, Anna and Hans' behaviour is bordering on reckless. Going off into the garden together for a chat with no chaperone?! Scandalous!! Going out for a midnight stroll together, without having even introduced him to Elsa, let alone having her permission?! So uncivilized! If you look at norms of the era, Hans would have to be asking Elsa's consent even to write letters to Anna, and probably would know that the social expectation would be that Elsa would expect to be allowed to read them too.
Anna's riding on a horse wearing nothing but a flimsy cloak is implied to not take much time, but she was on there long enough for all-but-one of the winter clothes in Oaken's shop to be sold out?
- That "Winter Department" of his was clearly no more than a corner where he had dumped all the scraps that had been left unsold since last winter. Look at real life: The best time to buy cheap Christmas ornaments are in January. Those clothes were the only ones that had been there for months.
- Here's an alternate idea: that wasn't just the leftover winter gear from last winter. Oaken did have a lot of stock in the winter department, but he received quite a lot of customers during the course of the day who needed to buy emergency winter clothes, so by the time Anna shows up, there's only one dress and set of boots left in stock and he won't be restocking 'til the next morning.
Where are the Arendelle nobility when needed?
The country enters on crisis-mode, the royal family is disappeared ... and foreigners seem to take charge of the kingdom. I know that Anna left Hans in charge, but it seems he only discuss his decisions (including things like arresting, sentencing to death and killing the Queen) with foreign dignataries. Where are the local noblemen, ministers of the government, judges, etc.? Don't they have anything to say?
- Since Hans was (presumably) visiting Arendelle for the first time, he might not have been acquainted with officials other than the royals. Or, considering his plans to take over the throne, he might have disregarded any officials from Arendelle, as they might've just gotten in the way. This could also explain why he only seems to associate with the Duke of Weselton: since Weselton was Arendelle's biggest trading partner until Elsa makes an embargo with him, the Duke might have been the closest person Hans knew to an Arendelle official (as he would probably have some knowledge of and stake in the kingdom). Hans might have also only really associated with the Duke because he agreed with Hans' plans to kill Elsa.
- So Hans, the scheming Chessmaster plotting to take over the kingdom, couldn't be bothered to suss out what the local power structure was. And then, when the kingdom is in crisis and a foreigner seizes power based on the vague, hasty decree of the heir-apparent (not the reigning monarch), that local power structure... saw that he was ignoring them, decided they weren't needed, and wandered off to watch Game of Thrones. That makes sense.
- When Anna left to go find Elsa, she left Hans in charge. Anna's word might just be really important.
- With Elsa AWOL and angsting, Anna was in charge. Leaving Hans in charge meant that he could hold his own council, and he chose to discuss it with those who had no real authority over the kingdom. Serves as a great Foreshadowing of his later betrayal, actually. Most likely, the Arendelle authorities were tasked with keeping everyone alive during the Freeze, while he covered it up by claiming that he was handling the foreign dignitaries.
Why would Elsa create Marshmallow?
- Elsa's supposedly isolated herself to protect Anna and Arendelle, yet she creates Marshmallow, a gigantic sentient ice golem to throw Anna and Kristoff out. Marshmallow, who later chases Anna off a cliff. Anna gets away from Marshmallow unharmed, but never occurred to Elsa that maybe sending an ice monster after her little sister might result in Anna getting hurt? Seems to me like it would have just been easier if Elsa created a slide of ice under their feet to get Kristoff and Anna out of the palace and then just destroy the ice bridge if she wanted to be isolated.
- Elsa is in great emotional turmoil at that point in the movie. Not only does that make it harder to think clearly, it also apparently screws with her control over her powers (hence the whole accidental winter thing). At a guess, Marshmallow was just supposed to harmlessly remove Kristoff and Anna, and then block them—and anyone else—from coming inside until she could get her control back. But because of her emotional state when she made him, he was nasty and violent, and the predictable happened. As for why she didn't make an ice slide? Because as she knows all too well, that's not safe either.
- Also note that Marshmallow isn't that nasty and violent, not towards Anna and Kristoff. He just grabs them and relatively gently deposits them outside the castle. Even after Anna angers him, all he really does is roar and stomp a lot, he doesn't actually hurt them. Even when they're dangling right in front of his face and he could grab them and squash them in his hand, all he does is shout at them to go away. He didn't throw them off the cliff, both times they went over the edge it was Anna's decision. The movie makes it seem like Anna narrowly saves herself and Kristoff from him by cutting the rope, but it was probably unnecessary. Whatever he was planning to do with them after shouting at them was not going to be fatal, otherwise there would have been no point in telling them not to come back. Overall I get a "grumpy old man trying to scare some cheeky whippersnappers straight and perhaps enjoying it a little too much" kind of vibe from Marshmallow. It's different with the soldiers, of course, but they did pull out their weapons the moment they saw him, so their hostile intentions were pretty clear.
- Like Olaf, Marshmallow isn't completely under Elsa's control but has its own personality and autonomy. While it obeys orders from Elsa, it's up to its own judgement to interpret whether "make them leave" equals "just throw them out" or "squash them flat".
- Olaf and Marshmellow seem to have their personalities based on Elsa's state of mind at the time. Olaf was created when she was obviously reminiscing about her happier times with Anna, hence his "I love warm hugs" mentality and child-like innocence. Marshmellow was based on her thoughts of "GTFO!" and thus was geared towards acting like a bouncer.
What happened to Anna's self-preservation instinct?
- She's only, like, four years old and we've seen her jump off a tall pile of snow with nothing to catch her that should have broken an arm from the fall alone even without the magical problems, and fall down an entire staircase taking enough damage to ruin her bike. How can she be that stupid and not have died long, long before getting 'Frozen'? I mean I realize she thought Elsa would magically fix her despite Elsa basically shouting at her she was going to get herself killed, but... that makes her stupid decisions worse, I think. Not to mention all the stuff she does as an adult, starting with her inability to change into winter clothes. I find her incredibly cute and like her as a character, but she seems suicidal pretty much everywhere except when she actually does get herself killed, for Elsa's sake.
- She's reckless. This is in contrast to Elsa's controlled nature. Anna doesn't hold back, Elsa does. Both love and trust each other, but Elsa holds some of that back—if she didn't, Anna would not have been in danger.
- She is the Red Oni to Elsa's Blue. Anna is impulsive and doesn't think through the consequences of her actions. She wants to get married to a guy she's known for the length of a single song. She runs off into a blizzard without even stopping to grab gloves (while leaving said suitor in charge of her entire kingdom). She attacks 30 foot tall snow monsters. She jumps off cliffs. It's a part of her personality: she is the type to leap without a parachute, and every so often (like when she got shot in the head or when she accepted Hans' proposal), it's going to at some point come back and bite her in the ass bigtime. That's why she is shown taking it slowly with Kristoff at the end. She has learned her lesson about impulsivity and is going to develop her relationship with him properly.
Mascara and Ice Shadow?
- Even ignoring Elsa's ice powers including lip gloss for no stated reason, why is her idea of an 'empowered' appearance so... Playboy bunny? Lots of make-up, high heels, a skirt that will show her ice-underwear if she took a wide enough step, a cleavage window despite the long sleeves... How does any of that make sense?
- She'd been going by, and was rebelling against, the motto 'conceal, don't feel'. Only natural that she go for an outfit embodying 'show it, feel it'.
- The slit in her skirt only goes a few inches above her knee, and the sheer part of her dress is not a cleavage window, as she's not showing any cleavage, just her shoulders (which Anna's formalwear does as well.) Showing a little leg would still probably be daring in her society (although it is a fantasy kingdom) but her outfit is pretty tastefully sexy by modern standards and I think people are re-imagining that slit to be higher than it is.
- For proof.◊ Based off of that picture, Elsa would have needed to be doing the splits (or maybe an impossibly high kick) before there was any danger of her undergarments being exposed.
- Agreeing with the above troper. While there was some sexuality to her outfit, it was never ever used for Male Gaze purposes and it is clearly Elsa expressing herself. Probably too many creators use "she's expressing herself!" as an excuse to put their characters in ridiculous skimpy outfits, but this is not one of them.
- Also, "lots of makeup" is an exaggeration. A little bit of lip gloss, mascara and a light eyeshadow (it's much lighter in the movie) is a pretty normal, everyday look. It's not like she has raccoon eyes or falsies. And royalty has always worn makeup, in any time period, sometimes far worse than Elsa's. Some girls use makeup as a form of self-expression (thus, empowerment), not necessarily to look pleasing, and it's quite obvious Elsa isn't trying to please anyone if she plans to live in isolation.
- Actually, looking closely at the coronation scenes, it's more or less the same make-up as she was already wearing, just maybe with a slight glisten to it. It looks different because the coronation was lit by bright summer light or warm candlelight; the ice palace is lit by blueish reflected light which makes Elsa's complexion seem even paler, so making the make-up show up more in contrast. And mascara... well, if you look at the shots of Elsa as a small child, she seems to just naturally have huge black eyelashes.
- Beyond that, the light actually changes the make-up look itself: the lipstick that looked a soft pink in the yellow light now looks deeply pink, and the eyeshadow that was a soft brown-grey-purple colour now looks a strong purple. (When the tower is lit by a yellow light in Hans's siege it looks far less strong again.)
- Looked at differently- while the dress more-or-less covers what Arendelle society seems to think should be covered, it's very fine fabric (possibly made of ice), and Elsa's transformation takes her from having quite sturdy shoes and stockings to barely-there shoes and bare legs. Her sleeves go from velvet (if you look very closely at the coronation dress you can make out the texture) to being sheer, and she throws her cloak away. Possibly Elsa's avoidance of both touching people and of what she is have lead her to years of wearing unnecessary heavy clothes, when her idea of a comfortable temperature was actually far below what it was for other people, and in her (supposedly) private kingdom she can wear clothes that she feels like she can actually breath in.
- I'm one of the camp that wondered why 'Powerful Elsa' wore fewer clothes and more mascara, but I stopped wondering when I realized that the first draft had her as a straightforward villainess. They probably had Elsa's 'Snow Queen' appearance completed before that rewrite, and were operating under the trifecta of Evil Is Sexy, Makeup Is Evil, and Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains. It made me grin to picture the reactions in Animators' Alley: "What do you mean, 'now she's a misunderstood emotional shut-in with a sympathetic backstory'? You asked us to design 'Morticia Addams Goes To Aspen'! It's too late to redesign her again!"
- Great... except that she was actually rather drastically redesigned after her personality overhaul. The sheer sleeves and general slinkiness (described as 'softening her lines') always belonged to Elsa as we now know her.
- What "cleavage window" are you even talking about? Elsa's blue dress has roughly the same neckline as Anna's coronation gown. Or is Anna too "playboy bunny" for you as well? The slut-shaming here is unneccesary and uncool.
You're gonna keep them?
- "Cuties. I'm gonna keep you." Waaaaait... does this make Kristoff a changeling? (It's much worse if you know your mythology.)
- Nope, Kristoff didn't have a family before he met the trolls.
- Indeed, Kristoff explicitly says that he and Sven were alone before the trolls took them in. Why do people keep missing that?
- Trolls in this movie can tamper with memories. (Not to cross into Ron the Death Eater territory, it's just something to take into account.)
- Then why was he out on his own with only Sven? The ice guys didn't acknowledge him and even rode away without him! He didn't seem scared or intimidating, even when he was riding out into the middle of the forest. It's clear at this point he doesn't know anyone.
- Why does he call them friends rather than family? I like to think that his family searched for him and found him after a couple of days, but Kristof had after that time made an connection to the Trolls that made him check back to the once in a while during the years.
- I don't know why people think this. As stated above, Kristoff explicitly states it was just him and Sven before meeting the trolls. And as he says later, he calls them friends, but they are really more of family to him.
- The thing is that Kristoff said that he and Sven were alone before the trolls took them in, just like Anna said she had no idea about Elsa's powers. Because of the trolls' memory manipulation powers, we can't necessarily trust what Kristoff says is accurate. It's at least possible that the trolls edited Kristoff's memories, removing his parents from them, the same way that they edited Anna's memories by removing Elsa's magic from them.
Royal Recognition 2: Big Summer Blowout Edition
- Okay, so when Anna wanders into Oaken's trading post (and sauna!), why is it that Oaken doesn't seem to acknowledge that the Princess of Arendelle just walked in? If Anna's (possibly skewed, admittedly) dialogue is anything to go by, Oaken could have been able to recognize Elsa, because she was the queen. So why not Anna? Did he not realize? Did he maybe just not care?
- Oaken lives way out in the wilderness, he probably can't recognize the royals on sight. Elsa is wearing a crown, although I'm willing to bet that Anna just over implied Oaken's ability to identify her.
- It is said that, when Louis XVI attempted to escape from Paris, he was recognized in the country because, being the king, his face appeared in French currency.
- The Princesses have also been hidden away their entire lives until that day — Oaken could never have seen her before this, unless he'd met her as a child.
- On a similar subject, how did Anna pay for the goods that Kristoff couldn't? She didn't appear to have any coinpurse on her, or any signet ring or something similar she could use to prove to Oaken that he'd be reimbursed by the royal coffers.
- She was all dressed up for a huge royal ceremony; presumably that little necklace she was wearing was actually worth mad cash. Not to mention her summery ballgown was most likely made with the most expensive material available. She probably bartered her things for the less royal-quality winter clothes and supplies.
- Alternately she somehow proved she was the Princess and could get money to him as soon as she'd sorted the problem with Elsa. Or she could have suggested he send someone down to Hans at the castle to collect money at her words.
- She must have come out with money. That's all we can say.
- Many ways to explain it. Anna could have bartered her expensive (but presently useless-to-her) summer finery and jewelery. She could have proven her royal position to Oaken by reciting the lineage of her family line to a level of detail that most travelers who wander into a trading post at 10:30 p.m. wouldn't have memorized. He simply might have accepted her word as credit - people who can prove that they are fantastically wealthy but are currently short on liquid cash (as a princess wandering in wearing the finest clothes and jewels money can buy would be able to easily establish) would have been able to easily get things on credit. She could have drafted and signed a promissory note in her own name and title authorizing him to draw on the treasury for the value of the goods. She might have a signet ring or seal hidden away on her person somewhere.
- That said, the bartering is the most likely outcome. Clearly, she wasn't hauling around her summer clothes and fine jewelery on her big adventure. A good runner-up is that she worked out a deal with Oaken where she purchased the goods Kristoff wanted and her own clothes on credit, with her jewelry and summer clothes - which are clearly worth far, far more than some wintertime supplies and a few carrots - as collateral. Either she comes back with the 50kr he wanted for the goods and can take her clothes and jewels back, or she doesn't, in which case Oaken can claim the goods as his own and make a fantastic profit on them.
"Bring me my horse!"
- Anna has spent the last thirteen years inside the castle. Why does she have a specific horse for her use if she never goes anywhere? Does she just ride around a courtyard or something a lot?
- "A Sister More Like Me" features Anna riding a pony, chronologically happening after she was estranged from Elsa, so she did practice riding somewhere. The castle courtyard is as good a guess as any.
- More than riding: "While I galloped on my pony / in the wind and rain and sun". I don't think you can gallop far in a courtyard. I guess if there's a race track.
- There's no implication that the castle is a prison. The princesses can probably go out, just rarely and carefully controlled.
- I am fairly certain that that snippet of the song where Anna ran around in the garden, chtting with ducks was Disneys' way to tell us that Anna was not litteraly locked inside. Shame that none lisned.
- There is a world of difference between having access to a garden, one surrounded by stone walls, and leaving the castle frequently enough and on long enough trips to necessitate having your own, specific horse.
- She's part of a royal family. Even assuming they didn't have a large enough courtyard or a private field, rich or royal people often own stuff that they don't really need or use.
- She's a member of a royal family in a rather isolated and difficult-to-navigate terrain; why wouldn't she learn how to ride at some point and have a horse in case she ever needed to ride across land at any point? The castle is also presumably not the be-all and end-all of the Arendale Royal Family's land holdings in that area; I think it's probably safe to assume that they have large spaces of open land available nearby for their own private purposes.
- Because she has spent the entirety of her life since she was five confined in a castle that sits on an outcropping of rock, the only way off being a bridge into town that is repeatedly stressed that she doesn't go there. The Royal Family could own every speck of land in Arendelle and it wouldn't matter because Anna never leaves the castle's walls.
- True. But she could still learn to ride within the castle walls. There's a courtyard, after all.
- This actually explains a lot. Anna learns to ride in the courtyard. But she doesn't learn to ride around the country and so on. That horse ran off really fast at the first sign of danger, whereas if she'd learned to ride it properly, and it had been trained outside of the perfectly safe courtyard, she would have been able to control it and it wouldn't have been so nervous.
Thirteenth In Line?
- The most implausible moment in the whole film: Two beautiful, wealthy, eligible young noblewomen, one about to become queen, and the Southern Isles sends the thirteenth in line for the throne to the coronation ceremony. It's implied that Arendelle is comparatively wealthy and economically stable, as local kingdoms/princedoms go. Hans's twelve brothers would be murdering each other (and quite possibly their wives!) for a chance at Elsa or Anna. How does Hans end up with the duty?
- Hans' brothers might all be married already and if they are, they are most likely married to noblewomen who are socially equal to or just a bit lower than Elsa and Anna, so there is no need for them to rush off to marry. Hans, being the youngest and unmarried brother, was probably sent to A. be the Southern Isle's representative, and B. woo Elsa or Anna and marry one of them. If Hans and his brothers all married princesses from different kingdoms, that gives their family lots of political power. Think Queen Victoria and how her children married into royal families all across Europe. The line at the end saying that Hans will face his brothers' as punishment implies that they didn't expect him to go crazy and try to kill Elsa for the throne. The Doylist explanation for Hans' place in the succession is so that the audience will understand that Hans has no chance of ever being a king through inheritance.
- Also, seeing as Hans is the youngest, it makes sense that he'd be forced to go to the kingdom where it'd be hardest to get hitched because it's likely that all his older brothers had snatched up all the "easy" princesses and noblewomen in the area, so Hans was forced to go to one of the few other places with sufficient nobility. And Arendelle was an obviously open choice - remember, Elsa had a reputation as an aloof shut-in whom no one had seen in years, so she probably didn't get many suitors. Hans mentions that he initially came for Elsa before he encountered Anna.
- Arendelle is based on Norway, so it's pretty far north. The 'Southern' Isles might be pretty far away, too far for them to be all that concerned about it, but not too far for a jealous and desperate son to travel to for a chance to seize power.
- The Southern Isles are based on Denmark, which isn't that far away from Norway.
- Or, if the allegations that he was mistreated by his family are true, it's very possible that Hans' family was just trying to get rid of him, even temporarily. Perhaps they needed to send a representative but none of the other brothers felt inclined to attend. At that point Hans decided to try to make the best of the situation.
- I assumed Hans's family hadn't sent him at all, that Hans was there of his own choosing to do his dastardly plan. It explains why it was just him and his horse, and no other assistants - plus at the end "We'll see what his brothers think of this" implies his home may be unawares.
- Or he talked them into letting him go but they never for a moment took the idea seriously that he'd successfully woo one of the sisters. It doesn't sound like Hans' family think very much of him. Otherwise they'd make use of his abilities instead of letting him go rogue.
- Since we never get to see the other representatives in detail, it's possible that there was an entire delegation from the Southern Isles, including some of his older brothers. It would be bad form of the highest caliber to send someone so unimportant to such a prestigous event, so it's likely that Hans either joined the delegation without telling anyone or was there as an underling to one of his older brothers and managed to (almost) score himself a princess in the process.
- I always felt like the deal with Hans was basically, twelve brothers, and you're going to get a bit neglected. That doesn't mean you're abused. And he only mentioned three of his brothers mocking him. He had nine others who didn't, rememeber? To make him feel important, he could have been sent to represent the kingdom. Except he took it as an opportunity to get hitched.
Snowman Pain Perception
- During their quest to and from Elsa's Ice Palace, Olaf is knocked to pieces and look at that, he gets impaled, all without him feeling seriously hurt. However, it's the fireplace inside Arendelle's castle that causes him to show some intolerance for pain (albeit in a calm, Plucky Comic Relief kind of way). Why was it the fire that elicited a pain reaction from him, as opposed to all the instances of him being destroyed, decapitated, and impaled?
- Maybe because heat and fire would render him a puddle, in the right temperatures, impalement and dismemberment don't actually harm him because he can just put himself back together.
- Impalement and the like merely rearrange his molecules bit. His arm catching fire, on the other hand, could do some actual damage.
"I don't see no ring"
- Well of course you don't, troll kiddo, because Anna is wearing MITTENS! Can trolls see through clothes or something?
- They're Comically Missing the Point in order to Troll Kristoff. It's not that hard.
- The trolls have many magic powers. Them having X-Ray Vision is not a bad assumption. It's not like it matters, though, as Hans never gave Anna a ring in the first place; there's no ring to see.
- The little troll could have checked. On a re-watch, (starting at exactly two minutes) Kristoff announces that Anna's engaged to someone else and several trolls huddle together, discussing the engagement. Ten seconds after the announcement, the little troll pops into the huddle randomly to announce that there is no ring. We don't see Anna again until almost half a minute after the announcement.
- They have Anti-Shipping Goggles, plain and simple. They want to assume anything they can to convince themselves that she's single so Kristoff can have her.
So Elsa has perfect control now?
- Okay, Elsa has been battling for control of her powers for 12-13 years by now, and all of a sudden she can control them perfectly after a single Eureka Moment? I get that she now understands how to control her powers, but that's different from being able to actually control them all the time. She can still get upset or become afraid, and she's more used to trying to shut down those emotions rather than deal with them in a healthy way, even if she knows she should calm down. There are times when a person knows being upset or angry won't help a situation, but that doesn't mean they stop being angry because they decide to.
- Look how quickly she masters her powers once she decides to "Let It Go." With absolutely zero practice in over a decade, she creates a castle, clothing, and sentient life. She just never made the connection before between emotional state and her ability to control her power, since she was actively trying to surpress her powers rather than study them. Anna's comment about true love "thawing" a frozen heart makes the connection in her mind that by using her positive emotions, she can dispell as well as create the snow.
- Even if she can control her powers, that doesn't meant she will be able to fully control her emotions.
- When she tried to control her emotions, she bottled them up and lost control at incredibly awkward times. Now that she is in total control of her powers rather than trying to bury them, she won't feel the need to bury her emotions anymore for fear of lashing out. She can express her emotions, which will give her better understanding and control over the emotions that cause accidental ice ages.
- Elsa spent most of her life in a downward spiral: the more she was afraid of her powers, the more they manifested without her consent, and the more she was afraid of them. It is similar to someone who begins hyperventilating because afraid of lacking air. Being able to thaw a whole kingdom probably restored faith in her abilities enough for them to be under control again.
- The synopsis of the upcoming Frozen Fever short mentions how Elsa's powers mess up the birthday party plans they were making. Also, the short novels 'Anna & Elsa: Sisterhood is the strongest magic' makes it clear Elsa can still lose control over her powers when she is tired or upset.
- Since at the end of the movie Elsa is the queen and seems completely in control of her powers. Does that put Kristoff out of a job? If the queen walks by a pool of water and touches it every day, you've effectively eliminated the ice business.
- She has other stuff to do, so ice she makes is largely confined to the castle and immediate environs. Somebody still has to deliver the ice around the kingdom, she just saves him the effort of going out to the lake with a saw (and probably puts a lot of the rest of the industry out of business since delivery-only needs less manpower), besides, they can always export the Ice.
- Since Kristoff is now Royal Ice Master and Deliverer, that means the Ice Harvesters will all be under his employ anyway and answer to him. Essentially the ice industry of Arendelle will become a government-owned monopoly. Clearly Elsa didn't put Kristoff out of a job because he now works for her.
- However consider the consequences of doing something like that. If Elsa did walk by a lake or pond and froze it so that the harvesters could collect the ice, slowly but surely the lake would start to dry up. Also the constant shift in temperature caused by Elsa freezing the water and unfreezing it everyday could kill the wildlife in the area.
- As evidenced by Olaf's personal snow cloud, Elsa has enough of a handle on her powers to create highly localized "endless winters" now.
- And even if we don't take any of this into account, Anna would probably intervene with her sister to keep her from accidentally sabotaging Kristoff's business, if only by at least letting her know about it.
- She's the Queen. It's not unreasonable to suggest that she has other duties that will occupy her time other than making ice for Kristoff to move about the place. I strongly suspect that Arendale's methods of procuring ice will take place the same way they did before she came along, and that now she has Elsa will more or less restrict using her ice powers to special occasions.
- Besides, with Elsa's powers to create ice on command, does the palace really need an official deliverer? It seems like the position was created by Elsa as a way of A) honnoring Kristoff for his actions in protecting Anna, and B) giving him an excuse to around the castle (and her sister) on a regular basis.
- It's a sinecure job she's created to thank the hero who helped the sisters through their adventures, rather like the Lord Privy Seal. He doesn't have to do any actual work, but he can draw a salary, has status in the government, and can still go and do what he wants elsewhere.
- The palace might not need to specially order ice, but other people will. And they'll need to deliver it.
- So, the ending was sweet and all, but did Elsa actually solve the problem of accidentally ice-blasting her sister? She was fairly in control of her powers before both incidents, after all. Does she now know how to thaw the damage? Or is Anna doomed within the week?
- First off, I would argue that her power was fairly in control of her during the "blast the heart" incident, and second off, she controlled her powers with instinctive love beforehand (blasting her sister in the head, and thus allowing fear to creep in, made her forget) and has now figured out how to do it manually. I'd be very confident in her ability to remove the damage to Anna's head. Also, Anna's Skunk Stripe vanished when Elsa thawed her out at the end; I wouldn't be surprised if the damage was removed during that same incident.
- Elsa was in control of her powers only when she was feeling calm. As soon as her mood shifted even slightly, things went to Hell (notice how the castle started to crack while she was freaking out about Arendelle being frozen). Now that she has more control of her emotions, she can prevent freakouts like the one she had when she froze the kingdom.
- Elsa wasn't 'slightly' losing control. Everything was really messing up. The most terrifying day of her life. All these people might hate and fear her. She might hurt people. Well, now the worst is over. She's not going to burst out so violently now. She's not afraid anymore.
Economic Damage to Arendelle.
- Hasn't Elsa done rather serious economic harm to her kingdom by cutting off all trade with Weselton, Arendelle's biggest trading partner? Granted, the ruler of Weselton had undoubtedly committed hostile acts against Arendelle, but isn't cutting ties with your biggest trading partner cutting off your nose to spite your face? Obviously, nations do from time to time impose economic sanctions on other nations, but usually that's to get the target country to change some specific policy or behavior that the sanctioning country doesn't like. In this case, Elsa seems to have sanctioned Weselton permanently, or at least indefinitely, over past behavior.
- That depends on how many other prospective trade partners are available to take up the slack and how many of them are willing to give non-exploitativenote trade terms.
- Generally speaking, countries, or rather the people within countries, trade with people/countries that it is most profitable to trade with. If Arendellers are doing lots of business with Weseltonners, it's probably because it's most profitable for them to do business with them. There's no way for Arendelle to cut off their biggest trade partner without doing themselves serious economic harm.
- Since the Duke is more eager to trade with Arendelle than anyone from Arendelle seems to be eager to trade with him, this suggests that it's actually less profitable for Arendelle to continue trade with Weselton than the other way around. And economic circumstances change; just because someone was your best trading partner yesterday doesn't mean they'll be your best trading partner today or tomorrow. In that case, cutting them off might even be better for Arendelle in the long run. In any case, it's also hardly in Arendelle's best interests to continue trade with a partner whose main representative has openly proved himself (and Weselton by extension) to be duplicitous and untrustworthy, since it's likely to suggest that Arendelle is unable to trust Weselton when it comes to their trade relationship as well.
- Since a Duke is usually subordinate to a King, odds are that her trade embargo with Weselton will be lifted once the King demonstrates suitably his apologies for the Duke's actions, as well as provides proof that the Duke has been properly punished.
- Given that the Duke of Weselton tried to assassinate Elsa and was verging on trying to assassinate Anna, as well as colluding with another attempted assassin and would-be usurper, the Duke will be very lucky if "properly punished" constitutes life under house arrest. If he's still somewhat lucky but not very lucky, it would constitute life in the King's dungeons, but most likely - given that he tried to murder an incarnated Physical God, it would take the form of beheading, hanging, or facing the firing squad.
- The Duke is lucky to simply being deported in disgrace: given that he tried to have his guards kill Elsa, and the considerable scope of her powers, Weselton would probably have acquiesced to whatever punishment Elsa felt was appropriate, up to and including execution for attempted regicide, which could even be treated as a hate crime.
- There's economic damage, and there's political damage. After the Duke's actions, Elsa needs to do something to assert her authority and demonstrate to Weselton and Arandelle's other partners and neighbours that she will not tolerate representatives of a foreign power conspiring to assassinate her while a guest of Arandelle, crisis or not. Arandelle's economy might take a bit of a hit until relations are improved, but that's probably better than everyone taking advantage of Arandelle because they think Elsa's a push-over.
- Also, trying to assassinate the leader of a country that you are visiting as an official representative of your own country is considered to be pretty much an act of war. Magic or not, it is the ultimate breach of diplomatic decorum and grounds not just for explusion of that diplomatic, but potentially for the immediate cessation of all diplomatic relations and the declaration of hostilities. Since you are also quite clearly the aggressor, it will also almost certainly damage your relations with other nations; those who are allied to and / or friendly with Arendelle will be doubtlessly taking Elsa's side, while those who are neutral will be viewing your diplomats with increased suspicion and those who are allied with you are hardly likely to be keen to be dragged into a war caused by the stupidity and paranoia of one of your own diplomats. And, of course, Arendelle now has a leader with supernatural ice-powers who can freeze an entire nation (such as, oh, yours). Unless Weselton is for whatever reason spoiling for a fight they can't possibly win, they will doubtlessly be taking their lumps and doing everything they possibly can to assure Elsa that the Duke was working on his own and that he will be punished accordingly.
Power Vacuum in Arendelle
- The King and Queen die. In their will they decree that the royal palace will continue to be closed to almost everyone, including servants, and access to the surviving royal family and especially the heir-apparent will be extremely limited. They give none of their reasoning for this and there is no indication that they appoint a regent to ensure that these decrees are enforced. And everybody... just kind of does what they say. Then, three years later, the royal palace is re-opened on schedule, the heir-apparent makes her first public appearance in half a decade at her own coronation, and then everything goes to hell, the new queen starts blasting ice everywhere and runs off, and her heir-apparent rides off after her, obviously distressed and not thinking clearly, and shouts something vague to the effect of, "This foreign dude I just met this morning is in charge!" And everybody... just kind of goes along with it. Really? nobody— no regent, or uncle, or steward, or captain of the guard, NOBODY— attempts to grab power? No foreign power invades while Arendelle is apparently entirely without a head of state for years at a time? Nobody questions these very suspicious provisions in the previous monarch's will, and especially nobody questions the authority of this foreigner when it derives solely from a hastily-shouted verbal decree from the heir-apparent and not even the reigning monarch? REALLY?
- Did you watch the movie? The castle is restricted after Elsa blasts Anna, a full ten years before the king and queen die. "Closed to the public" in this case means that people can't just walk in to the royal family's residence without express permission or some good reason, and that permission is hard to get. You know, the same policy that almost every monarchy in the world has used. None of those were assumed to have no head of state and Elsa having the public coronation despite really not wanting to shows that even she, the one most adamant that she been kept out of sight, believes that she cannot truly hide away forever. Hans being put in charge of Arendelle is unorthodox but perfectly legal. Elsa forfeited the capacity to rule when she ran away, Anna very publicly gave Hans her authority and he had been working hard to ingratiate himself to the people.
- It was hardly "just" closed to the public: from what we saw, the palace was nearly deserted besides Elsa and Anna. The point is that the kingdom apparently has ZERO nobility or bureaucracy in place between "royalty" at the top and "everybody else" at the bottom, and NOBODY (besides, eventually, Hans) steps in to fill the power vacuum. It makes no sense. In the real world, there is an orderly line of succession from the vice president on down. In a bad enough disaster you might have to go all the way through the Cabinet to figure out who the Acting President is, but there would be one.
- Who's to say there is no bureaucracy? If there wasn't someone working for the government, Arendelle would not exist as a nation. We just never see them because any such people are completely irrelevant to the story. As for the line of succession, Anna giving power to Hans was her completely ignoring it, which would be odd (and stupid, given who he turns out to be) but still completely legal. That's the thing with monarchs, they can pretty much do whatever they want.
- We did see bureaucracy and/or nobles: there was the guy who told the Duke that they would no longer be trading with him, and also the people Hans talks to when he tells them that Anna is dead.
- That's the point: if a bureaucracy or noble class existed, it would be very relevant to the story, because it would be an obstacle to Hans' grab for power. It strains credulity that everyone in the nation would blindly follow a dead monarch's decrees if there were no authority enforcing them; but if there were someone enforcing them, where were they when an existential crisis (in the form of an apparently-genocidal witch-queen) befell the kingdom?
- You're still operating under the mistaken assumption that Hans grabbed power. He was given it, legally, in front of dozens of witnesses, by the heir and acting monarch. The authority here that people are obeying is the law: opposing Hans and trying to wrest power from him at that point would be treason.
- The question isn't whether it would be right or wrong or legal or illegal. The question is why nobody tries it. It puts an undue strain on Willing Suspension of Disbelief to think that Hans is the only authority in the kingdom after the sisters leave, and that there is apparently no formal authority between the old monarchs' deaths and Elsa emerging from the castle after years of seclusion. A more realistic depiction of Arrendelle's government would have opened up rich storytelling possibilities, but the opportunity is left on the table and the film is poorer for it.
- And maybe if the movie was specifically about the Arendelle constitutional crisis they would have explored some of those storytelling possibilities, but since the storytellers needed to focus on the relationship between Anna and Elsa rather than Hans scheming against the Arendelle bureacracy (because, let's face it, how many kids are likely to be interested in watching what basically would amount to a Disneyfied version of House of Cards (US)?), they just handwaved it with Anna nominating Hans to be in charge and everyone deferring to him because he was just so darned nice and competent on the surface and got on with the story they wanted to tell.
- Hans didn't actually take the throne; perhaps there would have been challengers and dissenters, once the shock had worn off. From the time Elsa leaves to the time she returns and fixes everything...that's not even 24 hours, is it?
- The journey takes three days at minimum. It takes Anna roughly one and a half days to get up to Elsa's ice castle. It's another approximately 18 or so hours from there until she gets back to Arendelle when the visit to the trolls is factored in.
- Since Anna left Hans in charge, they likely deferred to him and were focused primarily on providing comfort to the citizenry during the crisis. Unfortunately, this left Hans free to scheme without anyone to stop him.
- I imagine there's actually quite a large bureaucracy in Arendelle- only they're men who like obscurity and believe in continuity of government above all else (which would make it more of a Disney Yes, Minister). That would explain why it runs for three years when the only obvious authority in the country is not only a minor but doesn't even consider herself competent to rule; and why the monarchical candidates in her absence are left to fight it out among themselves. Arendelle seems to run like a chicken: long after the head has been cut off, the body can keep on dancing. (True as the country looks to be threatened with a famine within weeks they may want a designated ruler to take decisions, and in truth that might be why they fail to interrupt Hans's rise to power when claim is dubious but he seems to at least have a strong personality, and can make tough and unpleasant decisions and is probably prepared to be brutal if the wheels come off the ship of state. Hell, Hans is decisive and confident enough he's even prepared to take responsibility for nasty things and stand by them, going so far as to try to personally carry out the death sentence on the previous queen. If the Arendelle civil service are really cynical, they could see him as usefully disposable if people don't like his policies, seeing as he's foreign and nobody has any firm loyalties to him.)
Failed Act of True Love
- Okay, so it's made clear that the only way to save Anna's life from that ice in her heart is with an act of true love. They immediately think "kiss", but the movie went about it by having that act of true love be Anna getting in between Elsa and an attacking Hans to protect her sister. That's all fine and good, because after all, Olaf himself said it earlier, that love was putting someone else's needs before your own, which is exactly what Anna did. But, at that moment, Anna was worried because Olaf had made a fire and would melt if he stuck around, she wanted him to leave or else he'd melt and technically die. But Olaf refused, he stated that he would remain with Anna until true love came to her. But, there was one happening right there! Olaf was in front of a fire, in danger of melting! He was willing to risk his life, his entire existence, just for Anna's sake and well being. If that's not an act of true love, I don't know what is. The fact that that didn't cure Anna's condition just feels like sloppy writing to me.
- The implication is that Anna herself has to do the act of love, since Kristoff leaving her to live happily ever after with Hans doesn't work either, and was acknowledged to be an act of love.
- In the climax, Kristoff charges head-on into the storm to find her, Olaf risks melting in order to relight the fire and keep her warm, and Sven throws Kristoff to shore before falling through the ice all perform acts of true love before Anna does, and none of them thaw her heart despite two of them being performed directly for her. Anna herself has to perform an act of true love to thaw her heart.
- I interpreted it as Elsa's crying and hug that saved Anna, not the sword-blocking. True love can't be one-sided. Anna has always opened her heart up to Elsa, and it took Anna nearly dying for Elsa to finally open up and express her feelings to Anna.
- A simpler explanation would be this - at the end of that scene, where Olaf realizes that Anna really doesn't know what love is, she asserts that he move away from the fire as his face starts to fall apart, to which Olaf responds that some people are worth melting for...only to rebuke that line seconds later by trying to hold himself together, saying, "Just maybe not right this second!" Whether he was being truly selfish here, which even I am willing to admit that I doubt, or was afraid to leave Anna alone and that his own sacrifice wouldn't work is irrelevant, as at that moment the window is blown open and they notice Kristoff making his way back. So the act of love didn't work because Olaf didn't follow through on it.
- Related to the headscratcher immediately above, why did the act of true love have to come from Anna? It wasn't her fault that her heart froze. It was Elsa's fault. Elsa's the one who shot her with the ice magic, even if it was accidental. It makes no sense why Anna should have to make the act of true love when it wasn't even her own fault that her heart froze. Wouldn't it make more sense if Elsa, the perpetrator, was the one to make the act of true love, thereby saving her sister, proving that she isn't wholly destructive, atoning for all those years of neglect, and proving to Anna that she really did do everything just to keep her safe?
- Though Elsa froze Anna's heart, her own heart wasn't frozen with ice magic. For example: If it's Elsa's fault that Anna got injured, putting a bandage on Elsa wouldn't do anything to fix the damage. The act of True Love had to come from Anna to heal Anna.
- Basically, 'True Love' would be a mystical heat generated by the heart. It doesn't matter how warm Elsa or Kristoff or whoever's heart gets, the ice in Anna's heart will only melt if the heat is in her heart.
- OP here. I get what you're saying, but in the context of the story and the Aesop they were trying to deliver, that still doesn't make any sense. Let's go by the first replier's metaphor. Anna's injury was Elsa's fault. Of course putting the bandage on Elsa wouldn't solve anything, she wasn't the one who was hurt, Anna was! What I'm saying is wouldn't it make sense for Elsa to be the one to do the bandaging? Elsa is the person who is supposed to learn the lesson that love will help her control her powers but she's never shown making the step to learn that lesson.
- Think of Elsa's spell as a brainwash and the solution was a "I Know You Are in There Somewhere" Fight, so, while other people could help, it was ultimately Anna who had to overcome the spell on her own. True Love's Kiss would have worked, but only because Anna was the one doing the kiss too, not because the other person "rescued" her. I do agree that Elsa learned the lesson too quickly, but then again, her aesop was not about The Power of Love, but about facing her responsibilities instead of Letting it go.
- Possibly because it wasn't Anna's frozen heart, but Elsa's, that had to be thawed by an act of true love. Since Anna is really the only person who 'loved' Elsa, it had to be her. Only once Elsa's heart was thawed could she undo the magic on Anna.
- I figure it's mutual. Anna saves Elsa. And Elsa finally opens up her heart to show her own love for Anna. True love is not one-sided.
- The "frozen heart" can also be understood metaphorically, especially Grand Pabbie's comment about Elsa putting a sliver of ice in Anna's heart. Here's a girl who spent her life attempting to reconnect with her sister, only to be rejected once more. You could interpret the ice blast from Elsa as being the last straw, making Anna temporarily give out on her sister and become more concerned about herself for a change. Seeing her sister about to get killed would have reawakened her love for her sister.
Kristoff and the Snow Cutters
- What was their relationship? At first I thought one of them was his father, and they were teaching him, but that's never mentioned again after he finds the trolls, and he's mostly treated like an orphan that they adopted. So, there's two possibilities: 1) the trolls semi-kidnapped him when he wandered in, because they made no effort to return him to his family, who he apparently didn't want to go back to, or 2) the Snow Cutters didn't care that a random kid had wandered into the middle of their work site, question where he came from, or show any concern for his well-being.
- It's possible that the trolls adopted him some time after the night he first sees the trolls. Consider this scenario: Kristoff becomes fascinated with the trolls, and spends all his free time with them. Then something happens with his family: perhaps they become abusive, or his parents die and he is treated cruelly by his foster parents, or some such. This sours him on humanity, and so he runs away from home, and the trolls take him in.
- I like to think of Kristoff's relationship to the ice miners as being parallel to Hans' relationship to his older brothers. It also explains Kristoff's initial misanthropy pretty well.
- I think that Kristoff has no known immediate family but the ice-cutters could be very distant relations. Like him, they're implied to be Sami, and he'd presumably be absorbed into the communal mens' work of the siida system, like the ice-cutting, perhaps at an earlier age than normal when he wasn't ready for it or big enough to be of much use. (Doesn't explain the obvious neglect, but presumably he kind of fell between homes and got overlooked.)
- I always felt like Kristoff worked with the ice-harvesters. But since he doesn't like humans, he goes his own way to sell the ice he harvests. Also, I feel like that night he was clearly struggling to keep up, and got left behind.
- I liked the idea of him actually assisting in the herding of reindeer in the winter months. Additionally, Sven is a reindeer. Good stock males - which Sven certainly is - are often 'rented out' in the mating season.
Isn't Anna still the heir?
- At the coronation Anna is quite reluctant to stand next to Elsa in front of the crowd. "I'm not the heir" she says but... that doesn't really make sense to me. Elsa doesn't have a husband or child and Elsa doesn't seem to be too keen on making either of those things a reality any time soon, so wouldn't that make Anna Elsa's heir(yeah she probably won't inherit unless Elsa dies childless or abdicates but still...)
- She's an heir in the sense that she's quite high (second in line, in fact) in the line of succession, but she's not the heir until the coronation is complete and Elsa is crowned queen. Until then, Elsa's the heir-apparent and Anna is second-in-line. Bit of a weird technicality to bring up right that moment, but technically correct.
- As the responses to the third question noted, Elsa may have been ruling - through decrees and such, rather than publicly - since their parents died. Since she hadn't been crowned yet, though, she'd still be the "heir", rather than the "queen". It wouldn't be surprising if people, or Anna at least, had got into the habit of referring to the ruler as the heir, and Anna's comment is a result of force of habit to describe the title as that. Of course, she actually is now (more or less) the heir, ironically.
- Anna doesn't say "I'm not the heir," ever during the movie. What she says is "Oh, here? Are you sure, 'cause I don't think I'm supposed to-" She's not saying anything about being the heir, she's just nervous standing so close to her sister. Elsa hasn't talked to Anna at all for most of her life, so it's understandable that Anna would be a little uncomfortable suddenly being so close to her. This is supported by her reaction when Elsa actually starts talking to her.
- Actually when Monarch 1 dies (in this case the King) Elsa automatically becomes the new monarch on his death. Sure she doesn't have the coronation for a few years but Queen Elizabeth II didn't either but that didn't make her any less of a queen now did it? And that automatically means the next in line (in this case Anna) is the new heir to the throne coronation or not. I mean look at King George's brother he's known as Edward VIII but he never had a cornation. When there dad (George V?) died Edward VIII came to the throne which automailly made George (known as I believe Albert back then) the new heir (which also made Elizabeth II be third in line)
The infamous hair glitch
- Was it really necessary to get that braid from the back to the front by any means necessary? The shot and framing certainly didn't seem to warrant it.
- It probably got argued for and against for a while. A single shot in The Incredibles of Bob feeling his supersuit and finding a hole was so complex that many of the animators begged Brad Bird to have it happen offscreen while Bob says there's a hole. They eventually achieved it, though.
- The Elsa's Hair animator said yes: the Elsa's Body animator said no: and in the resulting power struggle, it was decided to leave it as it was "because it's not like anybody will ever notice."
Why are both sisters so inhumanly strong?
- The film drills it in to the audience's mind that Elsa has magical ice powers that make her impervious to cold. But, um, even without those powers, both Elsa and Anna seem to be inordinately strong and durable, at the very least for teenage girls of slight build, if not for humans in general. In her distress, Elsa casually wanders for miles up the tallest mountain in the vicinity without getting visibly winded, while Anna (among other things) hammer-tosses a bust across a decent-sized room. (even if it were hollow inside, it should still too heavy to throw very far for anyone but an experienced Olympian). Nobody is around to witness these things, but it's enough to wonder whether there are other powers that the sisters just don't notice because they haven't much contact with normals.
- They were stuck in a castle with loads of free time. A child as energetic as Anna would probably get plenty of exercise. The bust was pure Rule of Funny. When Elsa wandered up the mountain, the entire environment was backing her up; ankle-deep snow doesn't bother her, wind and snow support her, she can circumvent any obstacle, etc.
- Because Anna and Elsa are Frozone and Mr. Incredible's ancestors, as shown here.
- Whatever the bust was made of, you're forgetting that it was held up by a cake after she tossed it. It couldn't have been that heavy.
- Probably plaster treated on the outside to make it look like bronze.
- I'd always assumed Anna carrying the bust was real and the cake supporting it was meant to be the funny part. It's not uncommon for layer cakes to have some form of support for each layer, but those wouldn't do that well if it were very heavy. Realistically, I don't think the bust would have landed on the cake at all (more likely hitting the wall and smacking off a layer of the cake on its way), especially at such an angle for the comedic shot, which is why I think the cake part is the Rule of Funny there. As said before, Anna was quite energetic so it's not hard to believe she'd be strong enough for that.
- So if Elsa really wanted to be alone, why didn't she destroy the bridge that connected her ice castle to the other side of the cliff after she threw out Anna? It would be harder to get to her without climbing the mountain/crossing the cliff first. Doing so would've made her ice castle into a mountain fort, complete with giant snowlem bouncer.
- Her efforts to rein in her powers seems a sufficient distraction at this point, and her difficulty consciously dismantling her constructs is an additional factor.
- Well just look at Elsa during the "Let It Go" number. She doesn't seem to be thinking as she's using her powers. She's just having fun with them. She completely forgot about Olaf. She only built the staircase to help her cross the mountain and she probably forgot about it as soon as she'd finished building her castle. Alternately she secretly did want someone to come and find her - the way depressed people secretly want someone to notice their problems.
- Elsa also didn't know at that point that she'd set an endless winter on Arendelle, so she probably thought that with the way everyone at the party saw her, no one (besides Anna, perhaps) would want to come looking for her. And she's not really scared of what Anna thinks of her.
How'd they escape?
- How did Anna and the Duke get out of the ballroom? I mean, the way Elsa accidentally flung them, they were all pointed inwards, with no way through, and yet 30 seconds later, we see Anna and the Duke see Elsa run away. I guess you could argue that the could jump, but a ballgown would have definitely ripped, and there was nothing of the sort ion that following scene.
- If you're referring to the spikes (and I'm almost certain you are), the Duke probably had his guards break them. Ice isn't that hard to break, you know.
- Besides, the ballroom probably has more than one door- the sisters seem to both come in through side entrances when Kai announces them, and when Anna comes in with Hans she comes from a totally different direction to the one Elsa goes off in.
Treason? Part 2
- When the Duke of Weselton questions Hans' loyalty to Princess Anna, Hans responds that he "will not hesitate to protect Arendelle from treason", implying that the Duke's comments were treasonous. But how can the Duke commit treason if he's a representative of another sovereign state?
Hans: I will not hesitate to protect Arendelle from treason!Duke: Sedition.Hans: What?!Duke: Treason is if it's done by a native. When a foreigner does it, it's sedition.Hans: Ah.
- I don't think Hans was threatening the Duke, so much as trying to say that he was working in the best interest of Arendelle and he wouldn't betray Elsa or Anna.
- This could also be Hans' true nature slipping through; as far as he's concerned, dissent is equitable to treason.
- Duchies aren't necessarily sovereign territory, the Duchy of Weselton could easily still be part of the kingdom of Arendale according to feudal law, but it has a degree of autonomy that leads to it's being treated almost akin to an independent state. The best example of this is probably the Duchy of Burgundy in France, which often acted as if it wasn't a part of France because that single duchy was wealthier than most of the rest of France combined, but at the same time the king of France was still technically sovereign over the territory.
- What, so it was supposed to have a little joke scene like the first Spider-Man film?
Disney "Princess" Elsa
- Why is Elsa referred to as a Disney Princess when by the end, and throughout most of the film, she is a QUEEN? So shouldn't Elsa be acknowledged as such?
- "Disney Princess" isn't just a descriptor, it's an official franchise. Not every princess who's appeared in a Disney movie is counted as an official Disney Princess, and at least one official Disney Princess (Mulan) cannot in any way be considered royalty.
If Hans wanted to rule the Southern Isles badly, why didn't he kill all twelve of his brothers?
- He was clearly capable of nearly murdering Elsa! Why couldn't he kill all of his brothers?
- Killing a woman most of her own country currently thinks of as Public Enemy Number One is not in any way comparable to getting away with murdering twelve people without anyone suspecting his involvement. Even if he convincingly makes it look accidental, after the first two or three princes end up dead people are going to take a long, hard look at anyone behind them in the line of succession, and the more murders he commits the more likely it is that he'll slip up in some way or otherwise be found out. Arranging an "accident" for Elsa, as he'd planned to do before she took most of the work out of his hands anyway, is a much lower-risk prospect than trying to off all twelve of his brothers and somehow manage to avoid suspicion enough to still be able to take the throne.
- Plus, given how old Hans is, it's more than likely that some of his brothers have kids. Even if he killed all his brothers without people suspecting him, he would have to find a way to kill all his nephews and not get caught. Killing Elsa and marrying Anna is really the simpler alternative.
- Perhaps he tried, when he was below the age of criminal responsibility and so not nearly so good at plotting. It would explain why they don't like him!
- Arrange twelve accidents!? Wow, even the royalty of The Chronicles of Amber would have regarded that as going a bit far.
- Indeed, that would be rather like taking Game of Thrones Up to Eleven! Hans' original plan did not involve murder at all. He came to Arendelle planning to woo Elsa, not Anna. Murder was not necessary to that plan. But when Elsa was visibly too reserved to be easily romanced, Hans switched his attentions to Anna, and then murder was on the table. Arranging an "accident" for Elsa would be fairly easy compared to trying to do the same to twelve princes, especially since he would be the prime suspect in the Southern Isles. Keep in mind that he was totally improvising here. His plans required more and more deaths as the situation developed, as compared to his comparatively straightforward original plan of marrying the newly-crowned Queen.
- Probably because his brothers knew exactly what a little sociopath he was and would immediately suspect him if one of them suddenly died.
Visible Breath Inconsistency
- This is a minor detail, but one of the few that persists for me through multiple viewings. Down in Arendelle, Hans and others are shown with visible exhalations. Up on the mountain, Kristoff, Anna, and even Sven don't have those little puffs of condensation despite all the running around they're doing, and even while standing in Elsa's ice palace. During the third act, however, Kristoff and Sven do have visible breath puffs down in Arendelle. Animation oversight, or is there a new level of Shown Their Work regarding atmospheric density or something of the sort at play here?
- Probably just an animation slip. I know they were deliberately not doing Elsa's right (another Required Secondary Power?)
- Witness the prison scene with Hans. His breath mists, hers doesn't. That can't be an accident.
- It does seem consistent (it happens at and just above sea level, doesn't in the mountains) so there probably is a reason for it, real or magical.
- It's a part of Elsa's Required Secondary Power- not only does she not perceive cold (that wouldn't in itself stop her getting hypothermia and frostbite) but she doesn't loose any body heat as normal human beings do, including not exhaling it.
- That's all well and good, but the question isn't about Elsa. Of course Elsa's breath wouldn't frost over. The question is about Anna, Kristoff, and Sven. Up in the mountains their breath doesn't frost over, but down in Arendelle it does.
- How the heck can the King and Queen of the Southern Isles have thirteen MALE children? That seems logically impossible in real life. I have no idea if they were lucky enough to get fraternal or identical twins or triplets multiple times, or the creators just threw in the twelve brothers thing at the last minute (which is likely what happened, seeing as how much the film was altered after they decided Elsa wouldn't be evil). Or maybe the creators thought that being thirteenth in line is unlucky!
- Not impossible, just very unlikely.
- Let's say that Hans mother gave birth to one child every one or two years, and all of them turned out to be boys. Maybe Hans' mother wanted a girl, but kept having boys, so that's why there are thirteen siblings. Another prediction on why there are thirteen male children-I read an article online that a mom took in six kids from her dying friend's family. Seeing as disease was pretty often in the time the movie takes place, perhaps Hans had a few adopted brothers. Or maybe Hans was an adopted child himself!
- Check out the Massive Numbered Siblings trope page for how many monarchs of roughly this period had that many kids- and more! Having them all one gender is unlikely, though.
- In a similar vein to the above response,it's possible that Hans and his brothers don't share the same mother. Given the time period,a woman dying in child birth wouldn't be unusual. In that case maybe Hans's father had more than one wife - hell, for all we know some of those brothers(or even Hans himself!) could've been born from a mistress.
- Nah, I doubt if Hans could have called himself 'Prince' if he were illegitimate. Unless his hurrying Anna along was so that she didn't have time to check his credentials...
- Just because Hans is legitimate doesn't mean all of his brothers are though.
- No, they're ahead of him in succession- they're all legitimate. But they might have different mothers- widowed fathers with young families (and thanks to how dangerous childbirth was, there were a lot of those about) usually did try to provide the kids with a stepmother, and a king is always attractive to somebody.
- Also, due to the differences between X and Y sperm (X sperm being more endurant and Y sperm being faster) the chances of conceiving one gender over the other can be improved consciously by parents. So Hans' parents could have been trying specifically for boys.
- Except that even with modern understanding all methods other than selective IVF are so hit-and-miss they're hard to call whether they worked or you just got the sex you wanted by coincidence. And that's since chromosomes were even understood, well into the 20th century.
- Is it possible that one or both parents had some genetic quirk that meant XX embryos just failed for them? (Actually, if they were related- as royal couples often were- and they both had a 'fault' on an X chromosome...)
- This is hardly out of the question, Sweyn II of Denmark had at least twenty children over the course of his long reign, eighteen of whom were male. And while that is a remarkable number, it shows that this kind of feat isn't impossible in a situation where a king has been alive long enough. Hell Sweyns brood could very well be the inspiration for Hans back story given how the brothers never really got along.
- It's more or less equivalent to flipping a coin and getting 13 heads in a row: the odds are something you wouldn't like to bet on, but the laws of physics allow for it just fine. (Come to that, we don't even know if Hans had sisters that he just didn't bother to mention for some reason.)
- If the Southern Isles practices male primogeniture, then any older sisters that Hans might have would be behind him in the line of succession despite their age. Until very recently, virtually all monarchies placed males ahead of females in the succession regardless of respective ages, with Queens regnant only occurring if there were no male heirs (as was the case in Arendelle actually).
- It's possible he has at least one pair of twins too.
How did Elsa not know she froze the kingdom?
- Sure, she was hiding in the mountains and likely wouldn't notice it was winter there. However, to get to the mountains she had to run through the countryside, which was covered in snow. Unless she was experiencing some kind of fugue state, Elsa should have realized what she did.
- She was almost certainly aware that she froze the areas she passed through; she probably just assumed that the effect was localized around her and that it would thaw quickly after she left. That's what always happened before, after all: as a child, she had to be consciously maintaining the effect or it would dissipate. It wasn't the freezing that surprised her, but the fact that it was apparently permanent.
- In "Let It Go", she at one point declares "Let the storm rage on", which I took (at the time) as her rejecting the kingdom entirely and intentionally continuing the storm, or at least not caring what happened to Arendelle. This seems to clash with her later not knowing that the storm is permanent.
- She had never used her powers on a large scale before. She'd managed to get through her life to-date without freezing Arendelle from inside of the castle, so she probably did not even know that she was capable of causing such far-reaching effects. By the time Arendelle was thoroughly snowed-in, Elsa was up on a glacier on a mountaintop in a palace which faced away from the kingdom.
- A certain critic went into detail on how little sense this makes. I can buy Elsa choosing to ignore the winter weather in different areas as she passed through them, but Anna and Kristoff could see clear down to Arendelle on their trip into the mountains, and Elsa's palace was even higher up than they were, meaning she should've been able to see it if she'd just looked down from her balcony. And we can see the cliffs and hills surrounding Arendelle at the beginning of the film, very clearly devoid of the ice and snow that's seen later on. So the "She's on a snowy mountain" excuse doesn't really work, either, since the areas immediately surrounding Arendelle weren't snowy before the winter took hold.
- Consider that from the point where Anna and Kristoff were standing when they saw the fjord, the North Mountain was at their nine o'clock position. As for the view from the balcony, well, there's a strong implication that perhaps Elsa wouldn't know that the lower parts of Arendelle had frozen over as well, because her ice palace was on the side of the mountain summit that faced away from the fjord.
- Where does it say or show that Elsa's palace is built facing away from the fjord? In Let It Go, she climbs the mountain, runs up a small hill, creates an ice staircase, and proceeds to build the palace atop the cliff at the top. She's never shown moving around the mountain, especially enough to be on its opposite side, and when Anna and Kristoff are on their journey there, Anna turns away from Arendelle and points in the opposite direction, asking "This way to the North Mountain?", and then Kristoff adjusts her arm so it's pointing up, but still in about the opposite direction of Arendelle. (And, again, Elsa had to have had some view of a place that was frozen over that wasn't supposed to be, even if she couldn't see clear down to Arendelle - she's been into the mountains when her parents took her to see the trolls, and Anna and Kristoff both pass by a frozen waterfall before they meet Olaf, so something should've struck her as odd.)
That is one dainty crown.
- The painting of Elsa and Anna's father shows him with a standard European crown. But when Elsa claims the thrown she is given a completely different crown. What happened with the original?
- Maybe the animators thought the father's crown wouldn't look right on Elsa?
- European monarchies have often had more than one crown, and made the distinction between the coronation crown and the state crown, which is worn on formal occasions other than coronation. The late king was probably depicted wearing his state crown.
- She couldn't use the king's crown because the king's crown was probably with the king — who was lost at sea.
- It was also appropriate to her age and assumed maidenhood. Modesty was not considered a bad thing in many royal courts, especially for very young monarchs (particularly female ones). Elsa's reasonably simple yet elegant gown, conservative hairstyle and dainty crown give the impression of royal restraint and frugality, which would actually be viewed favorably by many people (especially the commoners).
- While this is probably not intentional, someone with Elsa's odd physiology probably would be forced to go with this option. The kind of crown that her father is seen wearing is extremely heavy, something most human neck muscles are not meant for. Fun fact: the current queen of England, a fairly small woman, has had to 'train' with her two larger crowns for most of her life, wearing them for short periods as part of her daily routine, to keep her neck muscles strong enough. Now, Queen Elizabeth at least has a fairly normal human neck, but Elsa... (it shouldn't actually even support her head, really) probably wouldn't even be able to start at this.
What did they tell her?
- Even with the constant knocking and pleas for Elsa to play with her, you cannot tell me Anna didn't ask her parents a few times why her big sister suddenly didn't want to play with her anymore. They had to tell her something to satisfy her, even for just a while, but since they didn't want her to know about Elsa's powers, what could they have possibly told her?
- Perhaps Elsa's behaviour had become so odd generally they tried (unsuccessfully) to persuade her not to take it personally.
Why Was Elsa Still The Heir?
- Elsa couldn't control her powers,she'd confined herself to her room and her parents attempts to help her weren't working. Seems to me that something like Queenship would have been (and almost was) too much for Elsa to handle... How could she be a Queen if she couldn't even leave her room? Yet Elsa somehow remained the heir. Why would her parents risk putting an incapable ruler on the throne (by incapable I mean the freezing things when she's upset, that could've - and nearly did - ruin Elsa's reign from the get go) when they had another daughter who didn't have all the problems their eldest did?
- Presumably the laws of succession didn't allow them to simply disinherit an eldest child by fiat. Besides, they died pretty young. They likely thought they had a lot more time to try to help her through her problems.
- Historically monarchies have always tried to work with and around unfit heirs rather than replace them outright. Nobilities tend to not want people to start getting the idea that you can pick and choose leaders based on competence or fitness; besides, the point of a monarchy is you get what you're given by God because God has chosen this individual to be King/Queen for a reason.
- I don't think Elsa spent ALL her time in her room. We see her come out to say good-bye to her parents, and Anna says "People are asking where you've been," which they wouldn't be asking if she was a well-known recluse. Elsa staying in her room during (almost) the entire song...I think it was more metaphorical than literal (just as Anna wasn't singing the same song for 10 years).
- She didn't spend all her time in that room. Like you said, she's seen saying farewell to the parents, and in "A Sister More Like Me", Anna did see Elsa walking around the palace time to time, but could never get her to talk.
- Elsa could still rule from behind closed doors, and more importantly, she was actually being properly educated for her future role as a ruler. The alternative being Anna on the throne, if I were their parents, I'd pick the lesser of two evils.
- How is Anna being queen with Elsa in an advisory role be worse than someone with uncontrollable magic when stressed being constantly placed in stressful situations.
- As noted by others, King Agdar and Queen Idun were fairly young, and their deaths unexpected. It was probably not anticipated that Elsa would ascend the throne for several decades. Thus the belief that she would, as an adult, learn to control her powers would not have seemed unreasonable to them. Meanwhile, Elsa was being educated for the role of Queen. Her father was effectively ruling from behind closed gates, and so could she if necessary. At the time, she had not used her powers to an extent that implied that she could alter the environment throughout the entire kingdom just by losing control. Indeed, the effects of her powers had never extended beyond whatever room she was in at the time. Altering the line of succession would, if anything, draw attention and raise questions, which the King and Queen were trying to avoid.
- Disinheriting a beloved daughter is not something most traditional royal or noble parents would even consider. Agdar and Idun no doubt told themselves there was plenty of time to find a solution for Elsa's problem. According to Word of God Agdar had accepted that 'conceal it, don't feel it,' wasn't working and intended to change tactics after his return by reopening the castle and increasing Elsa's contacts, with her parents' support.
Why the hurry, Hans?
- Anna's rush to get engaged is easily explicable (the gates would be closed again next morning, and anyway she's sheltered and naive- but it seems unlikely that she would become totally cut off, at least by letter, to someone she already knew- and she certainly won't be meeting any other men. So why does Hans decide to propose to her behind Elsa's back, when they need the Queen's agreement to marry, and the way he's gone about it would make any responsible guardian (let alone one who seems very uptight) suspicious and hostile? Even if he was courting her honestly, it was silly, albeit maybe in-character for the guy he was pretending to be. The way things actually are, why risk Elsa distrusting him from their first meeting? It's not like on paper he's that inappropriate a person for Anna to marry, if that's what she really wants.
- I suppose it's plausible that he wanted to drive a wedge (or, rather, an even bigger wedge than was already there) between the sisters. Though even that doesn't make a lot of sense- if Anna defies Elsa to elope with him, then Elsa has grounds- perhaps she'd even be expected- to disinherit her, meaning he's married her for nothing.
- I highly doubt Elsa would disinherit Anna for that reason, even if it is very foolish. My guess is Hans thought since Elsa was Anna's sister, she'd approve. Anna thought the same, clearly.
- Maybe not, but Hans can't have exchanged more than a few pleasantries with Elsa (and it's not like Anna and Elsa seem close - they might be as dysfunctional as his own family). You'd think her most reasonable reaction would actually be what she initially does ("Hey, wait, slow down, who is this guy?")
- Of course Hans is clearly naturally inclined to fly by the seat of his pants, although he usually seems to have thought things through a little better in fact if Hans is what most people assume he is, one of the usual defining traits is impulsiveness and grandiose over-confidence. But Hans doesn't usually seem to conform to those aspects of the definition.
- Hans was running a gamble that just kept paying off. He tried to charm Anna - and succeeded. He got her alone at the ball and spun her a line - and that succeeded too. He brought the subject around to love at first sight, proposed marriage - and succeeded. Odds are that he hadn't expected things to be this easy and was too far along to back out with a "Well, ask the Queen to let me stay in the castle for a few weeks and then we'll talk about it." It would have broken character.
- No proposing on the first day before attempting to gain the guardian's trust is what breaks character. The is supposed to be intelligent, manipulative, unassuming and conscious of social norms. No one with his motivations would have acted the way he did in the movie.
- Except that Hans was improvising. His original plan was to start a courtship with Elsa, not Anna. She was the Queen after all (and Hans didn't know about the ice powers thing). But Elsa was so incredibly reserved and distant at the coronation that he saw that she was not going to fall for the Prince Charming routine no matter how well he played it. Since he'd had the good fortune to make the acquaintance of Anna earlier that day, he quickly switched to Plan B and romanced her instead. This plan would have required that he arrange Elsa's death sooner or later. If Elsa would not consent to the marriage, then it probably would have been sooner rather than later. Anna would then turn to him for emotional support and (as the new heir) would be in a position to consent to her own marriage. The major supporting evidence that Hans is The Sociopath is the way that he effortlessly switched from a plan that required nothing more than being charming (wooing the reigning Queen) to one that required murder by default (installing the Queen's younger sister on the throne and marrying her) without missing a beat.
- If Hans tried to court Anna on a more traditional timescale, likely the first thing Elsa would do would be to have him investigated to see if he was suitable for her sister—and for that matter, if he would likely be a threat to her or her future children. Given what we know of him, it's entirely possible that there is something in his past he couldn't afford to have Elsa bring to light. Plus, Hans also has to be worried about keeping Anna's attention: right now, she thinks she's in love with him, but she's never met another man her age. If he allows her to slow down, think about it, maybe even be courted by rival suitors, she could easily change her mind about the marriage. Under the circumstances, Hans may feel his best choice is to push the engagement as fast as he can in hopes that the marriage is fait accompli by the time either sister develops serious reason to object to it. As to whether marrying Anna against Elsa's wishes would cause her to be disinherited, maybe, maybe not. There doesn't seem to be a surplus of heirs, so he might figure that Elsa will just put up with whatever Anna does given the absence of any other clear choice as heir.
Kristoff the lone Ice Harvester
- While I know Kristoff isn't really a people person,why is he portrayed as working alone? Ice Harvesting in real life requires at least 20 men(and sometimes more in larger operations)to get the job done yet Kristoff is never even implied to be working with a group(aside from at the beginning of course). How exactly does that work? It'd take more than Kristoff to operate the equipment and what's gonna happen if he falls through the ice? Does Kristoff just freelance or what?
- I'm guessing here, but I'd expect ice-harvesting to be a seasonal activity, and possibly he meets with a band of guys who do it for a few weeks every year for some money, then go their separate ways, maybe taking on other kinds of work depending on what's needed for the season, like farm work or fish-processing.
So where does Kristoff live?
- The movie seems to implie that Kristoff is homeless when Anna meets him(and probably lived with the trolls full time before)but where does he live now that he's Arendelle's official ice master? Is he still homeless? Does he live at the castle now? or did Elsa arrange for him to live in the village?
- My guess is Elsa arranged for him to live in Arendelle. It's obvious she approves of Kristoff, so she's not going to let him be homeless if she can do something, but at the same time, it probably wouldn't be appropriate for him to live in the palace with her and Anna, especially since their relationship (Anna and Elsa) is only beginning to be repaired.
- I'm pretty sure that he'd move into the castle at least after the marriage. Whatever he's doing, Anna is needed there.
- I'm not sure whether he's so much 'homeless' as itinerant: his job means he's constantly on the move, and sometimes he has to take whatever lodgings he can get.
- I figured that during the summer months he worked as an ice harvester. During the winter, he would take on the tasks of a winter farm-hand.
The Troll's guide to raising humans
- At the beginning we see Bulda decide to adopt the orphaned Kristoff and Sven but how would trolls know anything about caring for a small human boy? or how to care for a reindeer calf for that matter?
- Likely nothing. The troll only kept them because they were cute.
- That's exactly the problem. The trolls know nothing about how to care for a human child, so how exactly did Kristoff survive to adulthood?
- Well, the trolls might be...er, eccentric, but they're not stupid. As long as they had some common sense, they could figure out the basics. Plus, Kristoff wasn't an infant when they adopted him. He's around the same age as Anna or Elsa. He could tell them when he needed something, and what Sven needs, and the trolls would figure out how to get it and accommodate him.
- Agreed: also they seem to have been more or less taking care of themselves at the time they met Bulda- Kristoff probably already has a good idea how to cover his own physical needs, but it's more his emotional upbringing that she takes over, something that she seems completely able to do.
- Although... Sven, on the other hand, is very young, possibly young enough to still be suckling. I guess milk (even reindeer milk, if it's herding country) might not be that hard to acquire, and grazing animals are known to thrive after being bottle- or cup-fed.
what did the king tell them?
- At the beginning of the movie the king decides to limit Elsa's contact with people,this includes cutting down the number of servants and shutting the whole family in the castle. Thing is this also means he must have come up with a story for why he did so but what could he possibly say that would justify firing most of the servants and closing the court?
- If we can use deleted material as evidence, the song We Know Better suggests that at least those servants who had most contact with the girls must have known something about Elsa's powers, as she wasn't above playing pranks on them.
- One might just as easily ask why they didn't notice something weird when Elsa was little- she doesn't really seem to be secretive about her magic and if her parents know chances are the staff do. We also don't know when she first started showing it- if there's been something uncanny about her since infancy, presumably most of the servants who attended her would have noticed something (like if a toddler's tantrums were accompanied by cold winds indoors, say.)
- Elsa has spent most of her life keeping Anna away, including having ejected her with some emphasis from the ice-tower. Yet when Hans has her in the cell, Anna is the first thing she asks for. I'm sure there's a good reason for this, but why?
- Most likely because she remembered that she unintentionally struck Anna and is worried about her well-being. When Elsa ejected her from the castle, she did so under stress, having just had a panic attack (not to mention her castle was beginning to fall apart). In the cell, she's still stressed, but much calmer due to having just woken up and can think clearly. The movie shows us Elsa's first priority is Anna, so it's understandable her well-being is the first thing that would cross her mind.
- Okay, although asking "Is Anna okay?" seems a reasonable opener in that case (she may be uneasy with Hans but last time she saw him he was supposed to be romantically involved with Anna, and she doesn't have any reason to believe he's a really bad man.)
- It feels to me like she wants to make a proper abdication and leave Arandelle, and just wants to get everything straight with Anna before she goes- also that it's appropriate to announce it to Anna in person. Seeing as she probably intends to disappear forever, she probably wants to both try to give Anna some sort of briefing to become queen, and to try to repair their relationship enough to say a proper goodbye.
- This is more about WMG/Fridge than the movie, but aren't people assuming a bit too much about Hans's brothers? Unless I'm not remembering something, all we know is he's the youngest of thirteen sons and three of his brothers completely ignored him for two years. Hans has to be at least Anna's age, if not older than her by a couple years. How is it remotely plausible that being ignored for two years causes someone to be a borderline sociopath (especially in comparison to someone ignored for thirteen years and still growing into an optimistic adult)? There's nothing to suggest all of his brothers were abusive.
- Actually, what we know is that Hans "says" he was ignored for two years. We don't know if it's true or not. I assume Anna or Elsa could do some digging after the fact.
- Two years is a long time. And it likely wasn't the only possible mistreatment that occurred. After all, his parents didn't do anything about it.
- Really most of this comes down to Jennifer Lee's Word of God that Hans had a loveless, miserable upbringing that somehow bent him out of shape. (Presumably he's actually understating the psychological bullying, if that's true. Though that doesn't really sound consistent with his ingratiating personality, does it?)
- As for Anna, the worst period of being ignored is for three years, from 15 to 18. Before that the affection between her and her parents suggests that they actually have a lot of love for her, even if Elsa takes up a bit more of their time. It's not wholly consistent, though perhaps both Hans and Anna are similar in being somehow underdeveloped personalities, just in different ways. And Kristoff falls somewhere in between there, too- he seems to have been abandoned by humans and grew up with a front of misanthropy, but it is just a front, he's actually an unselfish and emotionally intelligent guy, maybe because he gets out looking for his next meal in the real world a lot more than the junior royals do.
- OP here. I see all of your points. I just find it a bit far-fetched that eleven people (or thirteen, if you want to include his parents) are abusive. Who's to say he wasn't on good terms with some of them and just that bitter about being 13th in line?
- It is. It totally is. But it's the sort of universe where the far-fetched event is usually the one that happens.
- In fact the only real evidence from the film is that in his breaking speech to Anna, he makes it sound as if life was obviously a meaningless failure if he never got a crown of his own (unless the words 'I never stood a chance' mean something more general and even more dysfunctional, like 'I never stood a chance of being noticed or respected'- that's conjecture but somehow seems plausible). Which, as most of his brothers won't either, is a bit of a weird attitude for him to have- suggesting The Glorious War Of Sibling Rivalry is still ruling his life (it's not like he's not in a position to use his charm and intelligence to influence either his brother or Elsa). But that's just evidence that he's a bit weird about his brothers.
- Possibly it wasn't just the bad relationships with his family that made him so dysfunctional as the context they took place in with everyone else: he was born the son of a king and may have been extremely spoiled by the household staff (to the point that he's not even really aware of it.) If all the relationships he's known for much of his life are polarised between a family who seemed to hate him and ordinary people who treated him as a young demigod, it may well have made his personality a bit skewed.
- Hans' parents probably had very little to do with him. Historically, wealthy people weren't expected to have very much contact with their children; Hans was probably raised by a nanny or governess (or several.) Some governesses were recorded to be very good caretakers, teachers and substitute parents, but none of them had any training at teaching or childcare and tended to get the job based on their family's status rather than whether they were actually competent, and many governesses were only in the job because it was the only 'respectable' one they could do and resented having to work instead of get married- there are many records of incompetent, neglectful, abusive or downright crazy governesses holding their positions in respectable homes because their charge's parents paid them to just keep the children out of their hair until they were teenagers and never really checked what was going on. They also didn't necessarily stay in one job for long periods of time, which wouldn't have helped children or siblings who already had a troubled dynamic in the nursery. Hans would probably be one of those with a "troubled dynamic". This is in contrast to the royal sisters of Arendelle, who were most likely raised directly by their parents because A) there are only two of them, not 13 and B) it's dangerous for Elsa to be in the same room as Anna.
- Further supported by the size of the royal family. With that many children, they probably maintained a very large household with a lot of staff. Hans might have had rather more contact with the "downstairs" sort of people in a very Downton Abbey sort of environment than his older brothers who were closer to inheriting. Since he was not likely to be the heir ever, what advantages he had in life he probably had to gain through currying favor and manipulating the right people. In a large household, he could have gotten up to rather a lot of intrigue without anyone noticing.
- We don't know WHICH of Han's thirteen brothers had been ignoring him. Or when. We don't know how many were in the palace while he was still growing up. If he was like, 13 when it happened, he would have probably five or more brothers in the palace on a regular basis. He might even have felt resentful about his eldest brothers 'ignoring' him and not understanding that they're at least 12 years older then him and busy. On the other hand, Anna lacked proper contact with Elsa since she was six, and she didn't turn into a murderous sociopath.
- It's on a case-by-case basis. Hans might have had a resentful and cynical world view, (and quite possibly some form of mental illness; like a lust for power or narcissism) and the bullying he received only serves to confirm and deepen it. It can explain his ambition and ruthlessness: he wishes to be loved, to be listened to/obeyed, to hold power and feel powerful, and will do so at whatever the cost. He's very similar to The Phantomofthe Opera - willing to manipulate, murder, blackmail, extort etc. to not be lonely and ignored anymore. There might have been people who cared about Hans and the Phantom, but in their misery and cynicism, they don't acknowledge that. The Phantom stated, "The world showed no compassion for me!", lumping everyone into one uncaring, evil mass, including Madame Giry who helped and hid him, and Christine who loved him. Hans might have been too busy being resentful about his loneliness and his being bullied that he doesn't accept help and care from others (his nice brothers, for example).
No one noticed the ice on the orb?
- When Elsa takes up the globus and sceptre during the coronation ceremony and presents them to the audience, a lot of ice accumulated on both of them, and somehow not one person sitting in the front row (or anyone else in the audience) noticed, let alone Anna who was standing right next to her?
- Well, it was extremely improbable.
- Actually Elsa's face is extremely attention-grabbing. Look how nervous Elsa is while the bishop is saying that Norse stuff. Not her mouth, but specifically, the panicked look she's expressing with her eyes. Presumably the crowd notices how nervous she is, and they wonder whether the she is going to drop the orb, throw up or faint before the bishop can finish talking.
- It's also possible a few people did notice, but no one said anything because they didn't want to show disrespect.
- Looking at the clip again, it isn't actually that obvious- it's obviously not nearly as much as there is on the box and candlestick Elsa practices on in private during her solo in "For The First Time in Forever", and it's thin enough that it could be mistaken for vapour rather than ice. It could be mistaken for Elsa putting warm skin to very cold metal; if it melted quickly even the bishop will think it was a nervous sweat, which wouldn't have been polite to draw attention to.
Elsa had suitors?
- Hans tells Anna, "As queen, Elsa was preferable, but no one was getting anywhere with her." So does that mean Elsa had suitors before? But how? She isolated herself up until her coronation and presumably would've done so after the day was over (if the lyric "It's only for today" is anything to go by). How was she getting suitors? Was Anna rejecting them for her?
- Easily. I imagine it went something like:
Letter: My lady Elsa, it would honor me if you would allow me to court—
Reply Letter: NO.
- Honestly, the fact that she had isolated herself her entire life in itself means that nobody is getting anywhere with her. It's pretty self evident. Plus she seems like she could take care of Arendelle by herself.
- Also, when Elsa's parents died, she was eighteen. Easily old enough - or at least Anna obviously thinks so - that other royal families might be suspicious about why Elsa's parents hadn't even been engaging with them on the subject of potential suitors for Elsa, something that, as a 20 year old at the time, Hans would almost certainly have heard remarked on, seeing as he and/or one or more of his brothers would have been on the list of acceptable bachelors, even if he was as low down as say, #45 on that list. This would be happening even if the marriage itself was months, if not years, off. One assumes they were avoiding the issue waiting for Elsa to get 'controlled' enough to be willing to physically touch other people. (Though Elsa probably also got very anxious at the issue, too, given her general manner at eighteen.)
- He could also have had a good chance to read Elsa's body language at the coronation ball, before he puts the moves on Anna in earnest, having guessed that Elsa really wasn't receptive to being courted.
- Here's an idea I saw in one particular fanfic that retold the movie, and the five years prior to the main plot, from Elsa's point of view: while Anna was "dancing" with the Duke of Weselton, Hans tried approaching Elsa to request a courtship with her, and she quickly turned him down.
- Easily. I imagine it went something like:
Where did Hans get the key?
- Everyone knows that scene where Hans locks Anna in the library. But where did he get the key? The sound effect of him locking the door definitely sounded like a key being turned in the lock. Unless all the locks in the castle were the same, and there was one master key that could be used for all of them, and he kept the key with him at all times. After all, he was left in charge of Arendelle. There might have been a spare key in the library somewhere Anna could have used, but understandably at the time she was in no shape to go looking for a spare key.
- If I'm remembering correctly, the staff took Anna to Hans in that room. Perhaps he spent a lot of time there when the focus wasn't on him and one of the staff gave him the key if he wanted privacy or something.
- Or he lifted it from someone and made a copy.
- I doubt he could copy a key that quickly.
- The room in question seems to be the monarch's personal study (Elsa is seen composing herself in there, and she has a scene there earlier with her father.) So Hans would probably consider it his right to install himself there, key and all.
- Possibly the key is kept in the outside of the door. Actually, it would make more sense to keep it on the inside of the door, but perhaps Hans picks it up when the camera cuts to Anna.
- Sort of a related question: Hans locks Anna in the study to die. As noted on YMMV, this winds up being his undoing because, even without being able to take Olaf's intervention into account (why should he? He's never met the snowman), Hans's story would've been instantly thrown out if a concerned servant or member of the ruling council found Anna first, or Anna had managed to write a note saying "Prince Hans of the Southern Isles murdered me and my sister." Why didn't he just wait until she had frozen solid before he left the room (obviously, murdering her before leaving the room wasn't an option because, as said, a bloody corpse that even a 19th century doctor could say died as the result of a stabbing instead of freezing from the inside out would discredit him)? Was that supposed to be overconfidence or something else?
- Maybe even as nasty as he is, it might still be hard to watch someone slowly die, whimpering about how you've betrayed them. There's also that Anna lingered for seemingly 20 minutes longer, and Hans wants to end the winter as soon as possible. The sooner he gains the throne, then the sooner he kills Elsa and stops the storm.
Social Status Strife
- By the end of the movie, Anna and Kristoff are in a relationship. Though Elsa has given them permission, wouldn't royals (many of whom placed high priority on social status and believed they were above everyone else) from other states take a dim view of Anna (a Princess) being in a relationship with Kristoff (a commoner)? They do love each other, it's just in those days marriages were viewed as a way to secure an alliance, not something done for love. If Elsa ended up with a commoner, as the reigning monarch, it would be harder to challenge given she's the reigning monarch and not wanting to cross her due to her powers (though it may cause an uproar still), but Anna is a Princess; would that cause strife? would certain types of suitors aspiring to marry Anna (since only one can marry Elsa) try and 'deal with' Kristoff. I don't oppose it, I'm wondering if that would cause problems.
- Royals marrying commoners in Disney films is as old as Walt's own Cinderella. The previous Disney film even had a princess marry a guy who tried to steal the literal royal crown. In real life at the time, those situations would indeed cause more political strife, but real life doesn't have queens who can create eternal winters either.
- It feels like by the end it's been confirmed that both sisters have probably missed their chance at being "normal" royalty, but they still do the job just fine, and the people are going to learn to love them as they are. That would be the general dynamic of the ending.
- To Murder the Hypotenuse might free up Anna for somebody but as only Elsa could make her marry anyone (and maybe not even then) it would be a very long game, as she probably wouldn't be open to suitors for some time, and it would have to be a hit that couldn't possibly be connected to the suitor in question... in short Kristoff is probably no more at risk of this than anyone else that Anna or Elsa might marry.
- The Anna/Kristoff situation can be compared to the modern day Princess Madeline of Sweden. Madeline is not the crown princess so marriage to a commoner, even a foreigner (Kristoff, technically, is a foreigner to Arendelle) won't trigger a strife given that Elsa gave her the blessing. Modern Swedish crown princess Victoria is married (also to a commoner) with a baby girl though, but Elsa can promise marriage and issue soon to compensate.
If you're going to Let It Go..
- So, Elsa is free to use her powers at last, and she builds herself an awesome ice castle to live in and then.. just stops? Really? She never tried freezing air or other materials, freezing as hard as she could to see what happened (which, if she could get down to 0 Kelvin, could advance science by a century or more), creating cross-sea trade routes made of ice, freezing fire or seeing how much she can resist fire, seeing how much she can freeze herself with her immunity, or even just Iceman's cool power slides? When she's got confirmation she can create life - and finds she can do it voluntarily - she stops after one golem rather than realizing how this could revolutionize her life and her country? That castle should have been full of experiments, artworks, anything she could think of - it's not like she's going to run out of ice, after all. Dangit, girl, you just became a goddess and that's all you do?
- She might have got round to it if events hadn't intervened. She might well have got round to it after the film (some fanfics cover this.) She was up there about 48 hours before Anna found her, and after she'd spoken to Anna she was probably trying not to do anything in case she made the situation worse.
- I think this comic answers that question perfectly.
- It's not clear whether we see the whole of the ice palace or there are a lot of rooms we don't go into. Certainly there's a lot that we don't see Elsa making in 'Let It Go' (the whole first floor area with the mock-fountain, for example.)
- I think Elsa might not be making snowmen casually. Creating sentient life that may be functionally immortal isn't to be treated as a parlor trick.
- After holding her powers back for well over a decade, just letting loose with ice and snow would be stimulating and exciting enough.
- The movie takes place in about three days, and that's one of the moments she could have used to sleep.
- Elsa looked as if she was planning to stay alone. So there is absolutely no reason why she would need to do all those things. As long as she could provide for her own comfort, that was all she needed.
- Between the emotional turmoil she's been through and the energy she's used building her castle Elsa must be pretty tired. After the ice doors slam behind her she probably creates herself a comfortable bed and catches some zz. When she wakes she most likely busies herself with furnishing and decorating her new home until interrupted by Anna's visit after which she's likely too freaked out to do anything but pace the halls wringing her hands as her castle gets darker and deadlier around her.
This is not how to trick people
- Why would Hans even bother telling Anna about his own betrayal? If he really wants to kill Anna, he could have just kissed her anyway - since it would not have been true love's kiss it would not have healed her, but she wouldn't necessarily have realized that (it might take time to work) and only by her death can she get that final confirmation. If he actually succeeds in killing Elsa after telling Anna, he's now got an active queen who can tell everyone else about his betrayal. And why mention that he's going to kill Elsa? It's not as if Anna's going to help him do that..
- Hans has no reason to believe that killing Elsa would save Anna, especially since she was minutes away from death.
- Hans seems to have been fairly convinced that Anna wouldn't last more than a few minutes after he left her (otherwise presumably he wouldn't have told everyone she was already dead.) Without Olaf breaking in, it's implied he would have been right. He also seems to have guessed that breaking Anna's spirit will speed up the process- putting out the fire is obvious but there's no other reason to darken the room as he mocks her (and he appears to have been right.)
- Hans has no idea how the 'true love's kiss' actually works- for all he knows it might have been enough that she loved him. (Which she probably doesn't, but that's the sort of emotional fine detail that Hans probably isn't good with himself.) In any case, Hans was probably just taking the chance to take out his sadistic impulses on someone who couldn't tell on him.
- His real mistake is that when the door was opened Anna would be found collapsed on the floor near the door like she was trying to escape; if it was how he said she presumably would have been found laid out on the couch or somewhere more comfortable. (It would have been more practical to just smother her or bludgeon her to death, but the film would hardly have got away with that, and a bloody corpse would have discredited him)
Who's a perfect girl?
- Elsa several times refers to the line "be the good girl you always have to be", or "that perfect girl is gone". But when was Elsa ever told that hiding and concealing herself was necessary to be a "perfect girl"? She and her parents both seemed to be perfectly clear that it was purely to control her powers. If it was supposed to be some expectation of feminine behaviour, wouldn't they have laid into Anna for being totally unlike Elsa?
- It's hard to interpret what exactly Elsa felt was expected of her, but she was expected to be 'normal'- even if that came at the cost of her whole social and emotional life, she had to pass as non-magical- and she was expected from childhood to grow up into a reliable and responsible queen. I'm not sure her gender was that important in the matter (both these things would apply equally if she had been born a crown prince). When she says she has to be a 'good girl', she means she is a girl who has to be good, not that she has to be good at being a girl.
- Consider how poised Elsa is during any of the times we see her when she is not hiding in her room. The formal curtsey she performs when her parents leave, the almost military rigidity in how she stands at the coronation, etc. She hasn't behaved "girlishly" since she was an actual little girl. Otherwise, even within the royal household, she maintained a very stolid persona. The contrast to Anna is understandable, as Elsa was the heir and Anna was not. This was magnified by the belief that strong emotion would cause Power Incontinence. One reasons that for Elsa, maintaining that "perfect girl" image whenever she was around other people must have been very exhausting to maintain, especially for thirteen straight years, and locking herself in her room was the only way Elsa could ever relax. When she runs away into the mountains and creates a private ice palace, she probably feels free for the first time since she was a child — as symbolically represented by literally letting her hair down and playing dress-up.
- You also have to take into account that this is the song that shaped Elsa's entire character, and then she was changed accordingly. Elsa was originally going to be more in tune with the character she's based on in the original story, The Snow Queen, who is very much the villain of the story. Long story short the main characters were a boy named Kai who she kidnaps because he reminds her of her lost childhood, and his sister who tries to get him back. If Hans was in the original script, I'm guessing he wouldn't have been the villain, and it would explain why he seems like he was made evil as an afterthought. The song was not written for the character, the character was written for the song. So any inconsistencies between the two is perfectly understandable.
- The song was written when she was actually a villain, but then immediately afterward, inspired by the more positive and empowering aspects of the song, they picked the story apart and put it back together so she wouldn't be. It's probably kind of a leftover seam from that. Even then it's not too much of a stretch, just an odd emphasis, as the pressures of being the heir-apparent combined with having to try suppressing her ice powers with an unemotional facade could reasonably be worded as having to be a "perfect good girl". Even if that may seem like a slightly odd way of putting it, this is coming from the darkest, most messed up part of her mind and "be the good girl you always have to be" was basically at Survival Mantra level, so it makes sense that the wording would be a bit idiosyncratic.
Could Anna have lesser powers?
- It's commonly commented that Elsa got all the magic powers in the family, but could Anna reasonably have subtler ones too? This would explain her ability to walk through the frozen landscape and even have her clothes and legs soaked in freezing water without hypothermia, her ability to wear skates made of ice in the ending, and her turning to ice at exactly the right moment to save Elsa from Hans. Granted, her power isn't strong enough to stop her head or heart being frozen, but that's not due to outside cold but due to a direct hit from Elsa's magic, which is probably a whole new level (Elsa herself might have trouble with that, after all - we never see her blast herself!)
- Really that's no different than Aladdin being able to survive in the Arctic for a few minutes in hot weather clothes. Word of God is that Anna has no tangible magical powers.
- Not to be rude or anything, but...how does wearing ice skates made out of ice hint toward Anna having powers of her own?
Currency in Arendelle
- What exactly would the currency in Arendelle be? Money clearly exists since Oaken tries to get Kristoff to pay him four times what Kristoff has in his pockets for the rope and axe, but they never mention the name of the currency.
- The Scandinavian countries had different currency names prior to the Scandinavian currency union in the 1870s, but they all subdivided into units called Skillings or Shillings and Pennings or Pennies. So Arendelle's currency is probably shillings.
The ice blocks on Kristoff's sled
- When Kristoff first enters Wandering Oaken's Trading Post & Sauna and Oaken tries to rip him off by claiming that supply & demand is behind his outrageous price gouging, Kristoff replies, "You want to talk about a supply and demand problem? I sell ice for a living!" and we see his sled out front, with a bunch of ice blocks tied down on the back of the sled. Except, in the next scene, when Anna and Kristoff are riding in the sled, the ice blocks are gone. What did he do to the ice blocks? Did he untie them and leave them outside Oaken's place?
- I see no reason why he'd keep them, especially if Anna wants them to go to the top of the mountain right away. They'd just slow them down.
- It's not like he's going to sell them before this freak weather is sorted out anyway. And there's plenty of ice to be found...
The lighting in Elsa's castle
- In the room that is the "heart" of Elsa's ice palace, the floor and walls change color to match Elsa's emotions, much like a mood ring: bright blue when happy, purplish-red when upset and/or frightened, and amber when angry. From the perspective of the characters, would Elsa be seeing the changes in color the same way the viewer sees them? Or could some of the colors be caused by natural light (when that particular room is seen with purple and red lighting, it appears to be sunset outside)?
- It was just the result of outside factors - the sunset and sunrise, northern lights, things like that. With all of the neat geometric formations and whatnot that Elsa created when she built that palace, I'd imagine it would probably look pretty interesting depending on the varying effects of outside lighting.
Oaken's store hours
- Doesn't anyone think Oaken must have really weird store hours? When Anna enters the store, there's a clock on the wall behind Oaken's desk that clearly reads 10:30 p.m. Just seems odd that Oaken would even be open at 10:30 p.m. at night when his store is in the middle of nowhere and there aren't many people who would be passing through at that time of night. I'm guessing it's possible the store could double as Oaken's residency, and he sleeps in a backroom or in an unseen basement, or there's some sort of residence that's hidden behind the store, allowing him to be open very late for emergencies like a princess traveling through looking for her runaway sister.
Kristoff: Hang on! We like to go fast.
- It's a trading post, like the modern day 24 hour gas station, traders, wanderers, salesmen, hunters, and the sort that could come through at all hours of the day. And considering it's remote location in the woods, having him live inside either in the back, or in an unseen shelter like the barn is entirely possible.
- Speaking of which, Anna walks in the front door. Less than a minute later, Kristoff staggers in, covered in snow. Wouldn't Anna have seen his sled approaching? Granted, she'd probably think he was just another traveler passing through that neck of the forest, and the darkness may mean she very well didn't see him, but that does raise a question or two.
- They like to go fast.
Hans's first meeting with Anna
- What was Hans doing at the docks where Anna crashes into his horse? I don't think it's at all explained.
- People are arriving from all over. He's at the docks because his ship came in.
- When Anna freezes over and Elsa finally breaks down crying, we can see that there are some people in the castle watching them, who are then seen applauding when Anna unfreezes. As it turns out, the place where Anna freezes is conveniently on a ship. How far away could this ship be from the castle? Anna was obviously traveling to that point against a driving blizzard (and anyone who has driven or walked in whiteout conditions knows that distances can feel longer when you can't see what's in front of you), which may make it seem like the ship was farther away from the castle, but it's obviously close enough that people at the castle can actually see just who it is that turns into an ice statue and unfreezes.
- The ship was docked, or at least several meters from a dock. Also, those guys were looking out from the castle window, which is on an island and thus can see out to sea.
- They were actually on a balcony, weren't they? In any case, it's certainly acceptable that the castle would have balcony allowing those inside a view of the fjord.
When Elsa's leaving the castle after her powers are exposed...
- ...this is after Anna has accidentally grabbed the glove for her left hand. The movie suggests that Elsa control of her powers when she gets upset. To the point that, when she backs into an ornamental fountain after a woman asks if she's okay, and she grabs the fountain, it ices over in less than five seconds. So logically, almost anything that left hand touches logically should freeze over, right, since she's not in complete control? I'd assume that's not the case, since Elsa uses both hands to push open the doors to the courtyard and finds the public crowd gathered outside, and she clearly touches one door with her bare left hand, and it doesn't ice over (the door by which she leaves the ballroom doesn't freeze over since you clearly see that Elsa uses her still-gloved right hand to turn the doorknob).
- While she may not have complete control, it doesn't mean she's completely out of control. Revealing her powers to the guests inside was what prompted her to run away, while seeing the people gather outside to greet and curtsy to her, among them a woman and her baby, was what filled her head with fear of what she could do to all of them. That kind of fear caused her power to manifest even more powerfully and less willingly than it had before.
Anna's "skunk" stripe
- For most of the movie, until her heart is unfrozen, Anna has a streak of platinum blonde hairs in her otherwise strawberry blonde hair, established to have happened as a result of the accident when she was five and Elsa accidentally struck her in the head with her ice powers. It wasn't undone by Grandpabbie's troll-doctor work, and it's noted under Fridge Horror that this one strand of platinum blonde hair could be a pretty nasty physical reminder for Elsa about how her powers almost killed her only sibling, and caused severe feelings of guilt and self hatred for thirteen years. So it kind of makes me want to ask why Anna and Elsa's parents didn't consider trying to dye the platinum streak in Anna's hair (a few possible reasons could be that hair dye doesn't last long and would have to be reapplied very regularly, and also, as this is the 19th century, when dyes were extracted from plants and not made from mixing chemicals, the dye in question would be impossible to come by).
- Red hair dye made from henna was certainly available in Europe by the end of the 19th century but was a huge hassle to use and had erratic results- it would be unlikely to produce a very natural-looking shade even on a natural redhead. Furthermore dying one's hair was not really a wholly 'respectable' thing to do, at least not to admit to.
- Also Anna was obviously told that her stripe was just a funny quirk that she'd been born with and she doesn't seem to give it much thought- going to the trouble of henna dye would have drawn her attention to it more than her father would have wanted to. Young Anna doesn't go out much and the mundane explanation he gave her is probably good enough for most people anyway (being born with random patches of colourless hair is not unheard of)
Hans's argument with the Duke over blankets as "tradeable goods"
- If it wasn't touched on, when Hans is passing out blankets to the townspeople, he's confronted by the Duke of Weselton:
Duke: Prince Hans! Are we just expected to sit here and freeze while you give away all of Arendelle's tradeable goods?Hans: Princess Anna has given her orders...Duke: And that's another thing! Has it dawned on you that your princess may be conspiring with a wicked sorceress to destroy us all?Hans: Do not question the Princess! She left me in charge, and I will not hesitate to protect Arendelle from treason!
- The main page suggests (under Villainous Breakdown) that since Hans looks noticeably angrier than he should be, it does hint at his cruel nature hidden below his masquerade. But could it be entirely possible that he personally dislikes the Duke of Weaseltown for other reasons? One possibility being that Hans doesn't like the Duke thinking that blankets are tradeable goods that should be outbound to other counties no matter what, when they should going to the people who need them most: the people of Arendelle, who would otherwise be freezing to death. Or, maybe the Southern Isles have had some bad blood with Weselton and cut off trading with them for reasons similar to why Elsa cuts off trading with Weselton at the end of the movie.
- Hans was already positioning himself to be the future ruler of Arendelle once Elsa, and Anna, were disposed of. The trick is that the husband of a queen regnant is typically titled a prince consort, not a king. However, Hans could hypothetically wield as much political power as his royal wife would allow him. Anna had already shown that she was willing to drop complete authority into his lap at a moment's notice. He already planned to kill Elsa in order to install Anna on the throne. Odds are he would have eventually arranged for Anna to die tragically young as well. If he were very popular with the people of Arendelle, he might be able to claim kingship with their support. Thus how he was perceived by the people of Arendelle was far more politically important than keeping the Duke happy.
- I realize the movie isn't going to have time to show us everything, but...are Elsa and Anna good at running on little sleep? Elsa runs off at night. By the end of Let It Go, the sun is rising, which would mean it's morning, and we're also shown Anna riding on her horse. So were Elsa and Anna awake all night? I'll buy neither of them being hungry, but going 24 hours without sleep should've left them exhausted, especially Elsa since she climbed a huge mountain and built a palace. You'd think she would've collapsed.
- Here's an explanation for "Let It Go:" night in the far north in summer is very short- it could well be about 3 or 4 in the morning, and we don't see Elsa for at least another 24 to 36 hours, she may have spent some of her offscreen time asleep.
- Anna has quite a bit of missing time- it takes her a whole day to get to Wandering Oaken's Trading Post & Sauna, and another 12 to 13 hours to travel with Kristoff to Elsa's ice castle, compared to how long it took Hans' company to ride right up the North Mountain (assuming they left in the late afternoon, say around 4:00 PM, it would take them about 12 to 13 hours to make it up to the ice castle by horse on the most direct route to arrive by daybreak) - but it's more a case of where she might have rested than when- it's far too cold to stop anywhere without shelter.
- An example of a possible place is that Anna and Kristoff stopped for rest shortly after escaping the wolves.
Kissed by a Troll
- When I saw this movie in theatres, I thought I remembered hearing Anna telling Elsa when they were kids that she dreamed she got kissed by a troll, which I guess is suppose to reference her romance with Kristoff because he was raised by trolls. Whenever I watch Frozen on TV now, though, that part never actually plays, so I was wondering...Did I just imagine seeing it, or do they just choose not to air it in non-theatre showings? And if it's the latter reasoning...why?
- You've got some scenes mixed up. Anna tells Hans she dreamt she was kissed by a troll after he asks about the white streak in her hair. She was saying she dreamt the streak was causing by getting kissed by a troll. Elsa was completely absent during that scene.
- Okay, so the promotional material for the film frequently describes Kristoff as a grumpy, misanthropic mountain man who prefers being by himself...but am I the only one who doesn't really see him that way? Maybe my idea of "misanthropic" is a little overplayed - I actually really like Kristoff's characterization in the actual film, as well as his relationship with Anna...but at no point during it did I really see him as mean-spirited or cold or all that grumpy. I honestly thought he acted like any number of normal guys, save for a few things he says to remind us that he's supposed to be looked at as a gruff loner and the overall fact that he seems to live alone in the mountains. At no point does he distance himself from or shut himself away from Anna, save for when she inadvertently gets his sled destroyed and he considers not helping her...but even that didn't seem too far off to me from what any normal person might do.
- "She'll die on her own" "I can live with that" sounds pretty misanthropic to me.
- But he didn't mean it. Remember he's BOTH sides of that conversation. He's pretty annoyed with Anna at the point but there's no way he's going to let anything happen to her and he knows it.
- Not to mention he has a small song about how "reindeer are better than people". Granted, I do see your point. There is a difference between being misanthropic, and just being grumpy and cynical.
- "She'll die on her own" "I can live with that" sounds pretty misanthropic to me.
How did Kristoff reach the mountains so quickly ?
- Kristoff is seen during the coronation sharing a carrot with Sven. The evening of the same day, he's deep in the mountains with his sled full of ice, and apparently out of carrots. I can understand that he did not care much about the coronation celebrations, being misanthropic and all that, but how did he manage to reach the mountain and harvest enough ice to fill his sled in such a short period of time ? And why did he not stock up on carrots while in the city (though for that one I guess he did not expect to find himself in full winter halfway back) ?
- Kristoff lived near the mountains at least for most of his life, so he would know the quickest and/or easiest routes compared to Anna who's most likely never been out in the mountains.
- It wasn't actually the evening of the same day. Elsa runs off into the mountains and Anna goes after her late at night the day of her coronation, or extraordinarily early the next morning. In another scene, we see Anna looking for her sister in broad daylight the next day when her horse runs off on her - she wanders through the wilderness for the rest of the day and comes across Oaken's shop that evening, thus making it close to 24 hours between Elsa running off and Kristoff and Anna meeting. As for the ice in his sled...it could've been just stock he'd gathered when it was still summer and had been planning on selling in Arendelle, but when Elsa cast eternal winter over the kingdom, he went off into the mountains to maybe try to find some way to return things to normal.
Who has the authority?
- I am confused as can be. Elsa is the queen. Duh. She exiles herself, so that would presumably leave Anna in charge, who ends up leaving Hans temporarily in charge. But Elsa doesn't exactly go through any legal matters. She just runs off. So she should still be in charge above all, right? Here are my questions: 1) I realize there were special circumstances, but how does Anna's word, even as princess, mean anything? 2) How can anybody charge the queen (or king, for that matter) with treason, especially someone who's not even from that country? 3) Even if that is possible, wouldn't they need some kind of proof Elsa actually injured Anna? Or is word of mouth simply enough? Forgive me if there are obvious answers to these. I don't know anything about royalty in those times.
- 1) When Elsa went into her self-imposed exile, she effectively renounced the throne to Anna. This makes Anna effectively Arendelle's official ruler. Anna then puts Hans in charge of running things when she goes out to look for Elsa, so Hans becomes the acting ruler. 2) Monarchs have been charged and executed for treason in real life. King Charles I of England was executed for treason (though he did have a full trial before a relatively well-established authority, even though he didn't cooperate with it.) That also took place in an early-modern semi-constitutional monarchy in which there were statutes limiting the powers of the monarchs, which Charles I had unquestionably overstepped, but it shows that this is at least possible. (Although Charles didn't think that a king could commit treason either, which didn't help his case. 3) Elsa's the only person in Arendelle known to have obvious ice magic.
- Also, consider how Hans behaves: something comparable to the Bavarian Fire Drill trope. Everyone is confused and frightened and it's not obvious who should have authority- so when Hans calmly takes charge and acts like he can keep it all in hand, people obey him. The quickest way to become a leader in a crisis situation is usually to just behave like a leader, and Hans has that down to an art. People might not even mind for now that his claim is decidedly dodgy.
The escape from Marshmallow
- We see that Anna, Kristoff and Olaf go over the cliff to escape from Marshmallow. Sven did not go over the cliff, so would I be correct to assume Sven found a safer route to get down the cliff to catch up to them?
- Obviously. How is this a question?
Why is everyone so afraid?
- Why does everyone at the coronation party start acting afraid of Elsa just because one guy burst outside pointing fingers and shouting, "Monster!" at her. Couldn't anyone have noticed how terrified the poor girl appeared to be and maybe considered she was just a little overwhelmed?
- Because she's shooting ice out of her fingertips. People in that situation are going to freak out, they're not going to be reading her body language. Fun fact: People freak out and don't act like calm and rational beings when confronted with a dangerous unknown.
The dress was one thing...
Okay, so let's ignore all the discussions over Elsa's dress being made of ice that are listed above - I'm willing to accept that she's somehow able do such a thing. But in Frozen Fever, which is a short about Anna's birthday that plays before the live-action Cinderella film, to those who haven't seen it, she is literally seen creating sunflowers and green and yellow dress extensions with her magic. Ice at most I can say is one of three colors on its own - green, blue, or certain shades of purple - so how even in Arendelle's world is Elsa able to make flowers? The short simply shows these things appearing out of thin air without any explanation!
- Actually, she didn't create flowers out of thin air. There were was a convenient vase of pink flowers on the table. Elsa just basically froze them onto her dress. As for Anna's dress, it already had the sunflowers, Elsa just used to some ice to make them look brighter and lift a sunflower from another convenient vase of sunflowers to put in Anna's hair.
Cold vs Colds
- This is another Frozen Fever thing which might take some of Elsa's limits into question. Sure, she can "wear" ice, and seems to have some kind of secondary power that the ice she makes doesn't necessarily make her feel cold. But if that's the case, how can Elsa get sick? Colds usually start happening in reaction to extreme conditions, usually of cold or overexertion. So if that's the case, how did Elsa in her queenly job catch one? I can't imagine what her being sick during the years before the movie would've been like if that was a regular thing. Also, the fact that she can feel warmer than normal also raises my eyebrows. Could it be that Elsa's just like any other person, only with that unique ice power? Is it possible that her inhuman nature that fanon seems to blow up might not be as true as we thought?
- Cold is carried by viruses. As Wikipedia says, the reason it's more likely to be caught in cold weather isn't entirely understood and is a combination of factors, including the viruses being seasonal, exertion, a weakened immune system, and more time spend indoors in confined spaces, around potential carriers. Elsa's Required Secondary Powers make her resistant to cold in terms of weather and temperature drops, but do nothing against most of the listed infection risks.
- Actually, this is quite simple: Elsa hasn't let other people come close enough to breathe on her for over a decade (and even before then she and Anna don't seem to have played with any other children.) So she has had almost no exposure to most germs until she recently started meeting her people now that she's back in society... and as such actually has a fairly weak immune system. That's why her cold makes her so ill.
- Elsa thinks she's immune to cold because like everyone in the early 19th century Elsa has never heard of viruses and thinks the Catch Your Death of Cold trope is real life. The truth is she's just never been exposed to one before.
- This isn't meant to be an answer to the question, but whatever the fandom conjures up to try and emphasize that Elsa is inhuman in some way is not meant to be taken as canon. She has ice powers; this doesn't mean she's the equivalent of a god. If anything, I'd imagine she wouldn't want to be looked at as a god, just as she couldn't stand being looked at as a monster. While admiring her for her amazing powers is one thing, I think Elsa just wants to be seen and appreciated as a normal person, and for her everyday traits and characteristics as well as her supernatural ones.
When is Anna's Birthday?
- So, any idea how long after Frozen is Frozen Fever? A year? A month? How long?
- I believe I remember learning from somewhere that Anna was born on the summer solstice and Elsa the winter solstice. This would mean either that Frozen Fever takes place a year after Elsa's coronation or Elsa's coronation was held sometime before the 21st of June the same year.
- Apparently it takes place 'just a few months' after Frozen, which explicitly took place in July. So Jennifer Lee seems to be contradicting herself, or Anna has two calendar birthdays like real royals have.
What are the odds?
- Yes, it's a minor issue, I know, but I'm just kind of curious...Was I the only one wondering what the odds were that the last winter clothes Oaken had in stock happened to be Anna's size? Isn't that a little bit unlikely?
- Unlikely, yes, but the Doylist explanation is that Anna just happened to find clothes that fit her perfectly, so that the pace of the story wouldn't slow down. A Watsonian explanation is that the clothes didn't exactly fit her at first, but Oaken or a member of his family had sewing skills and fixed the clothes to accommodate Anna. It was common for people in the past to buy their clothes from tailors rather than stores, and have clothes custom made for them. When the clothes didn't fit them anymore, tailors could tear out the threads and make clothes bigger or smaller for the customer. It's possible that between the time Kristoff got thrown out and Anna found him in the stables, Oaken adjusted the clothing sizes.
- Actually considering the type of clothes they are: cloak and hat: one size fits all; blouse/shift: big and intentionally loose; skirt- in that sort of outfit it's probably dirndl waisted, so probably an adjustable drawstring waist; stays (bodice): we never see any closures on these, so they must be on the back and are quite possibly lace closures, so also adjustable.
Why not winter?
- Somewhat related to this is the question a few lines up, in which it's mentioned that Elsa was born on December 21st (or 22nd). Why didn't she have her coronation in winter? That is the day she legally comes of age to be queen, correct? So if someone else planned it, why did they decide to wait six months if Elsa was old enough already? And if Elsa planned it...While I can understand she may have wanted to hide her powers for a little bit longer, wouldn't it have made more sense to have the coronation in winter? That way, at least if she gets upset, she'd have an easy excuse (to a certain degree) for the manifestation of ice due to her powers.
- Arendelle is in the far north. They want a good turnout at the party, but ships can't get in and out of Arendelle's harbor when the fjord's frozen over. And most of the guests seem to be arriving by ship.
- Royal events in most of northern Europe usually take place in summer (even the custom of the monarch's 'official birthday' is probably for this reason.) People are unlikely to line the streets much in freezing rain/snow; and it's generally easier to celebrate when the day is 22 hours long than when it's 4 hours long.
- A more likely explanation is that the summertime festival is the anniversary of Arendelle's founding or another holiday that Elsa chose to coincide her coronation with (like Midsommer, given the maypole that is seen being raised in the town square while the camera is tracking through Arendelle) — putting it off as long as she possibly could.
- Anna's lines indicate that Coronation Day is her time limit for getting out of the castle. Then in the ice castle, Elsa tells Anna to enjoy the sun and open up the gates at home. When arguing, Elsa says to 'close the gates', then Anna says she 'can't live like this anymore' indicating Anna herself would be shut up again too. Elsa then tells Anna to 'just leave' if she disliked it. So Coronation Day on(or potentially earlier), Anna could have left the palace at any time if Elsa gave permission. Why did Elsa not have a courier sent to inform Anna of her freedom first thing, if that was the way it worked? Why didn't she try to find a workaround for the three years, such as sending out Anna but keeping the gates shut and only communicating via letters? Was Elsa so self absorbed she had no idea how miserable her sister was stuck in the castle?
- I think one of the reasons Anna never left was because she was waiting for the day she could rekindle her relationship with her sister - when Elsa finally tells her to leave if she doesn't want to stay cooped up inside, you can tell how distraught Anna becomes at that moment as she realizes just how distant her once-pleasant and kind sister has become, though unbeknownst to her, of course, it's not without a pretty good reason. This is what led to her finally confronting Elsa up front about why she always shut herself away, leading to the main plot of the film.
- I think that we can take it that in this canon sheltered teenage girls don't just strike out permanently to seek a new home in a world where they don't know anyone. (Anna's trip to find Elsa- which almost ended in disaster anyway the way she went about it- had a finite goal- find Elsa, placate Elsa, come home.) We know from out of canon that they've got other family but that would be too confusing in the film and anyway Anna doesn't know them.
Anna's not very adventurous, really
- Why does Anna never try to escape or sneak out, like Princess Jasmine tried? She's presented as an adventurous, spunky girl, but she just waited three years for someone else to open the gates for her. It seems a little odd.
- Note that Jasmine never snuck out of the palace until she was Anna's age, too.
- See the question above for my answer.
- Additionally, Anna and Jasmine both have different reasons for what they want - Jasmine seeks to be free and make her own choices, which a life in the palace doesn't seem able to supply to her, while Anna just wants friendship, companions, and love, and seemingly doesn't have many qualms specifically with being a princess.
- There's also, also the fact that sneaking out of a castle and running away isn't something you're capable of just doing on a whim, and Anna's supreme specialty, as we all know, is acting on whims. Something like this requires planning, choosing the right time to go, and most of all, coming to terms with your decision and clarifying with yourself that it's what you want to do - none of these aspects of forethought are among anything Anna is familiar with performing.
Anna's never had a real birthday before?
- In Frozen Fever, Elsa says, err, sings that Anna has never had a real birthday before. Um What? Are they seriously saying that the king and queen never celebrated their daughter's birthday?
- I think what's really being implied is that Anna just had a bunch of really depressing, half-hearted birthdays, with no friends she could have there to celebrate with her and no Elsa for her to spend time with either, even on that one special day. There's only so many new gifts you can expect to receive and only so many special memories you can expect to create when your only party guests are the same few servants your parents have decided to keep around the castle through the years.
How did they think this would play out?
- I understand Elsa's parents thinking they were doing good by isolating their daughters from the world and trying to teach Elsa to control her powers, and how they would've thought they still had plenty of time before she would have to take the throne, but, seriously...a ship sinking in a storm is not something anyone should've been surprised at. It seems to me like that kind of catastrophe would be common enough that the king and queen would've had some backup in case something did go wrong. Why are both of them so calm and self-assured when they leave on their trip? Why didn't one of them stay behind to look after the girls in case something happened?
- This is one of those "hindsight is 20/20" claims.
- A car being totaled on the highway is common enough. Do you make sure you only leave the house alone and keep your spouse at home every time you leave?
- They're calm and self-assured because they're assuming they'll come back alive. No one can account for storms with such severe hurricane-size waves.
- If my daughter had ice magic that I knew was based on her emotions, and I was going on a 2-week trip by boat, I'd be a little more concerned than they're shown to be. And there are about a zillion more risks involved with travelling by 19th-century ship through northern seas for two weeks, than there are just driving on a highway in the modern day. Elsa's parents should've realized that being caught in a storm was a very real possibility and compensated accordingly for it to make sure she would be able to cope and adapt in a healthy way, in the event that something did happen to them.
- How? What kind of advice are you going to give an already-distressed teenage girl that's going to make it so that she's okay after her parents suddenly and unexpectedly die? What can you tell her or have her do right before you leave that she won't be emotionally distressed by it? Or do they spend months and years 'training' her to get used to the idea that her parents might die?
- They could've left one of the parents at home. Or gotten someone else in the know about Elsa's powers so they might better understand how she dealt with them.
- Most fanfics I've read think that some of the castle staff probably had to have knowledge of Elsa's powers, like Kai and Gerda (the two who are most commonly given names).
Elsa's powers working by themselves
- Is it plausible that there are times when Elsa's ice magic works independently without any influence from Elsa? Many seem to take it that when the Duke's men corner her, the magic itself created a shield to intercept the first arrow centimeters before it would have embedded itself between Elsa's eyes. By that token, could the shockwave that threw Hans backwards at the same point that the blade shattered from contacting Anna the Human Popsicle have also been Elsa's powers protecting her from harm?
- To address these two things separately...with regards to the first scenario, Elsa's powers are often shown working on a somewhat subconscious level - in the beginning, she's shown twice waving or gesturing in the most nonchalant manner when she's anxious or afraid, yet both times her powers manifest themselves without any conscious effort on her part. In the scene with the Duke's men are attacking her, she is similarly in a state of anxiety and fear, not just of them harming her but of her harming them, and she does a similar gesture by throwing her hands up as if to defend herself. So in this case, while her powers do not function completely independent from her, they are still capable of acting even when she doesn't want them to. In the second instance, however, the wave of frozen air, for lack of a better term, that shot out from Anna as she froze was just a result of her heart being frozen solid by Elsa's magic beforehand; Elsa didn't notice until several seconds after Hans fell back that Anna was even nearby, so her powers acting based on things they "know" but Elsa is unaware of would go beyond the simple notion that they merely act completely on their own.
True love thaws frozen hearts, eh?
- Only an act of true love can thaw a frozen heart. Okay, that's great! It certainly saved Anna. But why didn't Anna try it on Hans instead of kicking him off a boat? I think it's a little hypocritical that the good guys are the only ones who are allowed to be loved. Who knows, maybe if she had forgiven him, he might have made a Heel–Face Turn! It seems to me that Anna exacting her revenge on him is only going to make him bitter and vengeful. If I'm not mistaken, all 12 of Hans' brothers are mean to him. If only someone could have shown him love! So, why not show a little compassion? Is it simply because he had already gone too far?
- Yes. He obviously did. He tried to murder both Elsa and Anna with a smile on his face. He wasn't going to make a Heel–Face Turn, and nothing in his character suggests that he's capable of it. How is this a question?
- Pabble meant a literal frozen heart, i.e. a heart with literal ice in it like Anna's. Trying to give some selfless sacrifice to Hans would just give him another chance to stab you without consequences.
- When Anna says "The only frozen heart here is yours", it's a figure of speech, not literal. Hans was never attacked by someone with ice powers and had his heart frozen as a result - she only meant it as a clever way of calling him cold-hearted, in that he was willing to leave her to freeze to death from a real frozen heart and subsequently use her death as a means of assassinating Elsa. Beyond that, she has no reason to show him any sympathy after he personally attacked her as well as sister, and in the larger picture trying to usurp control of what is actually her people. The fact is, all four of the main characters experienced a lack of love in some way - Anna, Elsa, and Kristoff still managed to become decent people despite such circumstances, as should be strived for by anyone in a similar position. Hans isn't meant to gather as much sympathy as the others since not only do we not know the extent of his troubled childhood, but instead of trying to rise above it, no matter how bad it may have been, he chooses to forces circumstances equally as miserable upon someone else, up to and including attempted murder.
- Hans had manipulated Anna into making him all-but-heir, had abandoned her to die, and had planned to murder her sister. If there's any circumstance where a punch in the face is arguably justified, it's that. In fact, that's quite restrained, given what Hans had done. Hans's actions were of the kind that probably would have earned him a free date with a noose.
- Why, in the climax, does Anna not try shouting or calling out to Elsa when she sees her, opting to utterly and blatantly sacrifice herself instead? Considering Kristoff was (somehow) able to hear her moments before when her voice was barely above a whisper, weren't there other ways that she could've alerted her sister to what Hans was doing? Like say, scream "ELSA! LOOK BEHIND YOU!"?
- Anna was freezing up and could barely speak above a whisper. If she could have screamed for help when Hans left her to die, she would have.
- Technically, on the fjord, if Anna was running to intercept the sword before it could hit Elsa, wouldn't she have enough adrenaline to shout to Elsa regardless of whether or not she was freezing to death?
- That run happens in a (improbably) short time in which Anna has no time to cry out before she's already there and probably doesn't waste the breath. A second after she sees it she's standing there doing a Big "NO!" at Hans. If she'd stayed on the spot and shouted 'Look behind you!", Hans could easily have struck Elsa before she had time to react (unless she used her powers and Anna didn't actually see Elsa fighting with them so she'd never know that.) Really she only gets there because Hans takes a few seconds adjusting his grip to line up the blow.
- Also, if Anna heard the sword being drawn from about 20 to 30 feet away, then presumably so did Elsa, and it's a distinctive noise. Elsa probably knew exactly what Hans was going to do and had reasons to sit on the ice and let him.
- Obviously Anna had only seconds to react, but I'm to guess that her weakened condition is the reason why she chose to shield Elsa from the blade as opposed to say, attempt to disarm Hans. She's obviously in no condition to be putting up a fight against an able-bodied guy in his early 20s with a sword. He'd probably stab her too, and possibly Kristoff, just to get rid of a witness (and risk his story being thrown out since he'd now clearly be seen killing both sisters on the fjord in view of a number of dignitaries).
- If there was ice in her diaphragm, restricting her ability to breath, her ability to scream would be severely hampered.
- Except she quite loudly cries, "No!" when throwing herself between the two. Also, to the above poster, I wasn't suggesting that she try to disarm Hans. And even if Elsa HAD wanted to die at that point, it was due to her thinking that she'd been responsible for her sister's death - if she'd heard Anna scream, she would've been pulled out of it upon realizing she was still alive.
Why not pay a visit back to Grand Pabbie?
- I wonder why Elsa's parents didn't consider ever consider returning to visit Grand Pabbie and the trolls once Elsa's powers began growing stronger. Wouldn't visiting Grand Pabbie be the best course of action given he seems to be the one with the most knowledge of Elsa's powers and how they work?
- Perhaps because Elsa's control over her powers seemed to improve as she grew older - really, in the three shots of her during the song, she spreads some ice on a window sill - nothing really noteworthy at all. Then later, we see that she's frozen a part of her bedroom, which is certainly a bit more noteworthy, but not something the king and queen wouldn't have expected and may have been a rare occurrence. And the third time, we see that she's mustered up enough confidence to leave her room, no small feat for her, and although she's a bit nervous, understandably so, it's only because the two people who know about her powers are going on a trip and won't be there to reassure her if she needs them. So, really, there were no instances that would've screamed for them to go see the trolls again - Elsa was easily able to control herself during the coronation, so she'd obviously learned more than a few things through the years.
- So, the only reason they'd return to Grand Pabbie is if the powers grew in a way that none of them expected? Like, if Elsa or her parents found out that her snow could come to life before she ever created Olaf in "Let It Go"? Obviously that never happened and there's no implication that Elsa's snow came to life before Olaf.
- Or if Elsa requested that they return to see Grand Pabbie again, which wasn't likely - we see during the montage how much she's trying to keep to herself, eventually refusing to even hug her parents if it means she may end up hurting them, so she probably wouldn't have asked for help. Olaf coming to life was during a time when Elsa was in a state of exuberance over finally being free to use her powers without fear, whereas in the castle, she was trying to suppress them and keep them contained. And aside from a few incidents, such as those shown during the song, it seems to have worked at least somewhat well for her.
- Granted, if I were Elsa's mother, and I was watching her grow up suppressing herself in such an unhealthy way, I would've suggested that we go back to see the trolls anyway - it was important for Elsa to learn to control her powers to keep from hurting people, but there should have came a point where her parents said, "Elsa, this has gone too far," and they would have taken her back to Grand Pabbie to find a healthier way of dealing with them. The fact that they never seemed to does constitute a trifle of bad parenting on their part.
- Or Idun did suggest it, but Agdar was still in denial about his inability to get Elsa's powers reined in.
- That's possible. But then again, another possible reason why Agdar and Idun never took Elsa back to Grand Pabbie was mentioned earlier on this page: they did not realize how little control Elsa had of her powers when she was in her mid-teens, that they did not want to admit even to themselves how horribly miscalculated they were in their efforts to get Elsa's powers reined in, and certainly no idea of how powerful Elsa actually was.
Turning down Anna's marriage proposal from Hans
- When Elsa refuses to bless the marriage proposal and firmly says, "Nobody's brothers are staying here, no one is getting married," was she more concerned about the fact that Anna had fallen so quickly for Hans or about the political implications that a marriage would half? Or was she concerned with both problems?
- I think it's a very strange mix of both - she's upset that Anna has fallen for Hans so quickly, without taking politics and foreign relations into account, among other reasons, because the two of them basically talk about the whole thing almost as though they're planning a sleepover instead of an important union between two powerful dignitaries.
- Well, Anna for certain doesn't understand the political and foreign relation things. Since Hans wants to marry into the Arendelle line or usurp Elsa, he'd probably be much more aware of the implications a union between him and Anna would have. Hans certainly seems fully aware that even if Elsa gave him and Anna her blessing, he couldn't reasonably tie the knot with Anna for at least nine to twelve months at minimum.
- Elsa's reasoning from a political standpoint: Anna is her heir to Arendelle's throne, and Hans is the 13th prince in line in the Southern Isles clan. Such a marriage would be one-sided in that it would be more beneficial to the Southern Isles than to Arendelle, and Elsa seems to be the kind of ruler who wouldn't rank another kingdom above hers.
- I think it's entirely because of how fast and ill thought out it was. Elsa doesn't like interacting with people but she's queen now, there'll be people around in some form or another all the time, no matter what. Anna finding a boyfriend would be a plus to her because then Anna wouldn't be alone anymore and she wouldn't have to feel guilty about it.
The 13 years of isolation
- Would it be reasonable to assume that at some point, both sisters would come to resent not being allowed to spend time with each other? It does seem a bit far-fetched to assume that either Elsa or Anna would put up with this with no questions asked. Anna certainly didn't like it, given her remarks in the argument at the coronation about Elsa only being good at shutting people out. Wouldn't Elsa probably resent that she had to shut Anna out?
- Anna seems at least somewhat resentful at first, during the coronation, but this changes to sympathy and understanding once Elsa's powers are exposed and she realizes there was a good reason for her to lock herself away. Elsa also clearly wants to have a close, loving relationship with her sister, but she is more consumed by feelings of sadness and regret - since she and her powers are the cause of said isolation, really, the only person she would logically feel resentment towards is herself. Also, in the beginning, there were questions asked - didn't you see the entire first half of "Do You Want to Build A Snowman"? It wasn't until Anna was a teenager during that song that she finally gave up on asking questions and persuading Elsa to come out.
- I'm aware that Anna stopped asking Elsa to come out and play after the first five or six years, and was basing the question off a prequel fanfic that suggests Elsa became resentful towards her parents for making the decision to isolate her from Anna. Said fanfic also suggests that as much as Elsa would resent the living situation (there are couple of scenes in it where Elsa gets angry at her parents whenever they try to isolate her from Anna), she tried to connect with Anna as much as she reasonably could, even if it wasn't the most ideal.
- The girls weren't forcibly isolated by their parents, they were forcibly isolated by Elsa. Elsa saw Anna around, ate meals with the family, I'm sure there were a few events she couldn't avoid from time to time, but she made the choice to avoid interaction with Anna because interacting with Anna made her feel things which made her lose control of her powers.
- Technically, it was 'the sisters were forcibly isolated by their parents due to Agdar's misinterpretation of Grand Pabbie's advice on how to handle Elsa's powers'.
- The King and Queen hid their daughters away from the world but they did not try to hide them from each other. Keeping away from Anna was Elsa's choice. At the most her parents accepted her decision.
Anna's knowledge of Elsa's powers before the movie
- Obviously, Anna's knowledge of Elsa's powers was wiped by Grand Pabbie to heal her head injury. But when Elsa's powers are exposed at the coronation, Anna doesn't seem at all freaked out about Elsa having powers and more concerned about apologizing to her and getting her to return to Arendelle. Obviously Elsa couldn't entirely hide her powers during those 13 years, so could there have been telltale clues Anna picked up over the years that in hindsight were staring her right in the face, that she just didn't put together until that one incident at the coronation? Like say, the temperature in a room dropping whenever Elsa got upset or angry? Or meltwater appearing outside Elsa's room after she'd frozen it over for whatever reason?
- Probably because she 'knows' that that's impossible so more or less accepts explanations that there's a damp problem in Elsa's room or whatever. It's a bit hard with this universe to guess people's acceptance of the existence of magic- obviously it's real but sufficiently rare that nobody seems to expect it until they see it.
Why not tell Anna?
- Elsa's parents seemed confident that they were leaving their daughter in good standing when they departed on their fatal voyage...which I'm assuming means Elsa was in well-enough control of her powers. So, while she still wouldn't want to go blabbing about them to everyone she meets, couldn't she at least tell her sister? Anna's not a five-year-old, anymore, so it's not like she would pressure Elsa to recklessly use her powers for fun like she did when she was younger, or at the very least, she might try to coax her sister out in a better, more productive way.
- Trusting Anna with such a secret is probably not the right idea given Anna probably isn't good with keeping secrets, and word would then get out pretty quickly, and eventually come to certain individuals who might wish harm on Elsa. Alternately, Elsa was pretty traumatized by the events of her freezing Anna's head, so she'd probably be afraid that she'd hurt Anna again.
- Anna was shown to be quite understanding when she finally found out about Elsa's powers, and was focused on finding her so she could apologize and mend their relationship, so it would seem out-of-character to suggest that she would blow the secret in some way if Elsa explained to her how serious a secret it was - indeed, the thirteen-year isolation should be able to speak for itself as to how serious and important this was to Elsa. Also, how does Anna knowing or not knowing have any correlation to the possibility of Elsa injuring her again?
- Anna didn't blow the secret after finding out because there was no secret anymore; everybody knew. Even if she was trustworthy, her parents didn't expect her to be. As for the correlation with her knowing, her parents' line of reasoning is this: Anna got hurt because she begged Elsa to play with her with snow power. If she doesn't know about her snow powers, then she won't ask to see them again and won't get hurt. As explained under Poor Communication Kills on the main page, it's suggested that their parents may have planned to tell Anna about Elsa's powers when they felt Anna had come of age, and they figured that by then, Anna would have matured enough to not ask Elsa to deliberately use her snow powers.
- Anna was completely fine with Elsa's powers when she was younger - there is no reason to believe that she would've blown the secret or pressured Elsa to use them if her parents explained to her the seriousness of this situation.
- One fanfic, Secret Passages, had a different idea of why Elsa didn't reveal her powers to Anna: she could've been worried that Anna would be scared of her if she knew, and knew that Elsa had injured her in the past with said powers.
- Because Anna is a bad influence on Elsa. The whole frozen head incident happened because Anna talked Elsa into doing something she knew she shouldn't be doing and then escalated things until they were out of control. Yes, Anna would be well intentioned but she's impulsive and fun loving and that could have had very bad consequences.
- ...Um...where was there any indication that Elsa felt she shouldn't have been using her powers in the beginning? Yes, she tells Anna to go back to bed at first, but then Anna asks "Do you wanna build a snowman?" and we see Elsa smiling. She was clearly in line with the idea. It's not as though Anna held a sword to her sister's throat and forced her to use her powers - the entire movie only happened because energetic Anna was jumping from snowbank to snowbank faster than Elsa was able to keep up, and then because Elsa shot out a blast of ice that just happened to strike her head. That was it.
- "There's 20 feet of fresh powder down there; it'll be like landing on a pillow...hopefully." So why did Kristoff create the snow anchor if they could've pretty much jumped and been fine? (And how did he know there was 20 feet of snow down below anyway?)
- As to the first point: Kristoff was digging the snow anchor to secure his rope. He and Anna intended to scale their way down the cliff with the rope and climbing axe. It's just that Marshmallow then grabbed them so he could scream "DON'T COME BAAACKK!" in their face, and then Anna cut the rope with the knife. As to the other point (the "20 feet of fresh powder" bit), I would think that Kristoff was probably just guesstimating.
- It's been magically snowing all day with no sign of stopping. He could easily deduce from that there must be tons of fresh snow below.
- To slow the fall, hopefully, by abseiling (you can still fall quite hard when you abseil, especially if you're a first-timer and/or your equipment has been set up in a hurry, which would be most likely to happen given that this one is being set up during an impromptu escape from a giant snow rage monster) No harm in trying to make it doubly safe.
- Realistically, given the length of that drop, I think Anna and Kristoff would probably be killed or at least break a lot of bones.
"What's this swing attached to?"
- This only came up thanks to watching the Literal Music Video of "For the First Time in Forever": Anna sings the first running of the chorus while standing on some sort of swing. What is it attached to? In a related subject, why would the ballroom floor be so greased to the point that Anna can slide across it at running speed?
- I always figured the swing was actually a piece of window-washing equipment, in which case it would probably be strung up from some overhang or a part of the roof or something. As for the ballroom, I've rewatched it and it actually looks like it might be some sort of error - Anna appears to be sliding across the floor before she even enters the room, without even getting a running start, almost as though she's being pulled along by something.
- If it's attached to an overhang, the overhang must be outside the camera's viewing area, which is why the platform appears to be dangling from the sky.
- It's actually a hoist. These are fairly common in the Old Bergan area that the main town in Arendelle is based on (though not as much so as in Amsterdam, where there are hundreds of them still today). Notice how big the window Anna leaves by is, and how Anna pulls herself higher on it (and Elsa lowers it in Frozen Fever)? They were attached to tall wooden buildings with narrow stairs and corridors because it's easier to haul goods and furniture up the outside of the building and pull it in at an upstairs window than carry it up four flights of stairs. They are attached to a beam that sticks out about 3-5' from the wall just below the roof, which would be why it doesn't appear from that shot to be attached to the building.
- Ballroom floors were- and are- supposed to be slippery: they would actually be finely dusted with 'french chalk' (poor quality talc) for exactly this reason. If you have smooth-soled shoes you should be able to skid quite a long way on one.
Snowgies, how do you stay cold?
- In Frozen Fever, the Snowgies are created by Elsa's sneezes. But my question is: we see that Olaf has to have his own personal flurry just to keep cold and that flurry is clearly visible. Since the Snowgies were created in hot weather, why do none of them require a personal flurry to keep from melting when they're in Arendelle?
- Maybe there's enough ice magic in the courtyard for them to survive off of, and Elsa herself emits a sort of cold aura that further lets them exist as long as they stay around her. And once the short is over, Olaf and Kristoff bring them all up to the mountains to stay with Marshmallow, so I imagine they would be fine there.
Musical world hypothesis question
- Looking at the Musical World Hypotheses trope page, I wonder, which of the four hypotheses would be most applicable to Frozen? The idea mentioned earlier that Anna's singing in "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" was probably just a narrative device is what leads me to ask this question.
- I believe it would likely be the Adaption Hypothesis, since Anna clearly did spend many years asking Elsa to come out and play during "Do You Want to Build a Snowman" and did argue with her about returning to Arendelle and the eternal winter she'd caused in the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever", even if there was no actual occurrence of singing in either case.
- My opinion of how it would go:
- "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" is clearly an Adaption Hypothesis.
- The original "For the First Time in Forever" is All In Their Heads Hypothesis. I say this because none of the servants take notice of Anna moving some of the salad plates, nor does anyone pay any attention to Anna singing as she travels down the railing of the bridge to the castle against the crowd of arriving guests. For Elsa's solo, since she's by herself and there's no way she'd know way she could telepathically know what Anna was doing, all of her lines, except for "Tell the guards to open up the gates!" are being sung in her head.
- "Let It Go" was probably All in Her Head, too. Elsa's completely alone when she's singing the song, so the song is probably her internal thoughts.
- "In Summer" is probably Adaption Hypothesis because Olaf was fantasizing about enjoying summer activities and both Anna and Kristoff clearly understood what he was saying. He probably was expressing his fantasies without actually singing about them.
- "For the First Time in Forever (Reprise)" was also Adaption Hypothesis, since Anna did clearly argue with Elsa about returning to Arendelle and the eternal winter Elsa had caused. The actual conversation probably went more like Anna saying "Elsa, please, Arendelle needs you! You can't spend the rest of your life hiding up here in the mountains!"
- "Fixer Upper" is probably also Adaption.
How did Hans get back to Arendelle first?
- Kristoff departs from the trolls with Anna at what looks to be sometime late at night, while Hans and his search party are shown storming Elsa's palace at what I'm assuming is supposed to be sunrise the next morning. Given this timeline of events, how could it be that Hans has already returned with Elsa to Arendelle by the time Kristoff and Anna arrive later in the day? The ice palace was at the top of the North Mountain, which is farther from Arendelle than where the trolls live, and barring that, you'd think someone with as impressive knowledge of the mountains as Kristoff would've known the fastest way through them and back to the castle (especially compared to Hans, who should know nothing of the geography of Arendelle or its surroundings) - thus, shouldn't he have gotten there first?
- As to Hans getting Elsa back to Arendelle before Anna got back:
- It's true that Hans, being a foreigner, probably wouldn't know much about the geography of Arendelle other than what he'd read in books. But remember that Hans is not traveling alone. He's got a group of about seven or eight men with him, who are comprised of the Duke of Weselton's two assassins and a some soldiers from Arendelle's army. I'd say that after the Duke volunteered his men, Hans probably went to wherever the Arendelle army officers are quartered to volunteer some officers and there was a conversation like this:
Soldier #1: Prince Hans, what are you doing here?Prince Hans: I'm launching a search for Princess Anna. The Duke of Weselton has been kind enough to volunteer two of his men, but I need at least six or seven more men who are willing to help me and endure bitter cold and blinding snowstorms to find her and Queen Elsa.Soldier #1: How are you supposed to do that? You're a foreigner to Arendelle. You don't know squat about the geography of this kingdom.Prince Hans: That's true, I don't know much about the land in Arendelle. That is in fact the reason why I'm here. Gentlemen, who of you here is very familiar with Arendelle's mountains and geography in general?[A couple of soldiers raise your hands]Prince Hans: Thank you. Those of you who raised your hands, get suited up right now. We'll be setting off in about an hour.Soldier #2: Understood, Prince Hans.
- Presumably, I'd say that after that, that Hans and the search party traced Anna's route. Presumably they traced her route to Oaken's store (it wouldn't take as long for Hans and his team to get to Oaken's because they're traveling on horseback and Anna traveled there mostly on foot):
Prince Hans: I'll be stepping inside for a moment. I just need to see if the owner here has seen her.Soldier: Understood.[Hans goes inside]Oaken: Hoo-hoo! Big summer blowout! Half off swimming suits, clogs, and a sun balm of my own invention, ja?Prince Hans: Um, no thanks. I don't need sunbalm and I'm certainly not going swimming in this weather. Are you Oaken?Oaken: Ja?Prince Hans: Good, you're the guy whose name's on the sign above the door. Listen, has a girl come through here recently, 5" tall with red hair, wearing royal clothing?Oaken: Ja, one of zem came through about 10:30 last night. She bought the last dress and boots I had in my vinter department.Prince Hans: Do you remember anything else?Oaken: She vas asking me about ze Queen. Ja, that's what she vas asking about. While she was here, an ice harvester came through and he said he'd been dealing with a blizzard on the North Mountain. The girl seemed very interested in this. I think she asked him the storm was "magical".Prince Hans: Of course it's magical, it's July and the whole of Arendelle is covered in snow.Oaken: Last I saw of this girl you speak of, she left with the ice harvester on his sled.Prince Hans: Thank you. [He exits and approaches his waiting soldiers] We've got her! She was last seen headed toward the North Mountain. I have a strong feeling that when we get there, we'll find Queen Elsa, too. Which way's the North Mountain?Soldier: I know the way. Just follow me.
- And then, presumably, once Elsa got knocked out, Hans's first priority was getting her back to Arendelle to be treated. I'd assume that, since they knew for certain where they were to go, the Arendelle soldiers who had volunteered did know a faster way back down the mountain.
- Additionally, it's possible that the valley where the trolls live is farther out from Arendelle than the ice palace is, not the other way around.
- It's possible, I suppose, but it only seems to take the royal family a few moments to reach the trolls at the beginning of the film, and when Kristoff brings Anna there after their encounter with Elsa, he starts walking away from her ice palace, meaning that the valley is probably closer, if only slightly, than the North Mountain. Also, while there are probably people on Hans' team who were familiar with Arendelle, I still wouldn't think they would know the mountains better than Kristoff, the antisocial loner who seems to spend most of his time exploring around the mountains and should especially know the area around where his family lives.
- I thought it possible that Anna and Kristoff could have gone slower at points so as not to wear Sven out.
Would it have made a difference?
- Would the events of the third act have turned out for better, worse, or the same if Kristoff had gone into the ice palace right away with Anna instead of waiting outside while she talked to Elsa?
- It probably would've made a difference, because otherwise, the writers wouldn't have decided for him to wait outside. Chances are since Kristoff has been Anna's sole voice of reason since their meeting at Oaken's, he would've tried but probably failed to talk Anna out of putting so much pressure on her sister, and then noticed what Elsa was about to release when she became upset and, depending on how Kristoff considers his relationship with Anna at that point, he would possibly put himself in between her and her sister to try and shield her from the ice blast. And if he didn't shield her, the plot from that point would've probably been unchanged. If he did shield Anna, the plot from that point on would have been much different.
- As an occasional writer, he was probably left outside less because he would change the plot drastically if he was there and more so that they could have a one-on-one scene with Elsa and Anna. Sometimes you just stick a character on the other side of a door so you don't have to worry about having to keep them in a scene that's not about them. Besides, it's clear Kristoff entered the ice palace at some point during the song, since he rushes in with Olaf seconds after Anna is struck — he and Olaf just don't follow Anna immediately when she follows the fleeing Elsa. Most likely, he probably got tired of waiting and wandered in, then he heard the girls' voices arguing and he followed the noise up the steps, and from there on out, well, we know what happened.
- I thought I remembered Olaf being the one who came inside, but perhaps Kristoff followed him later to examine the palace interior, and came running when he saw Anna get hit as he was coming up the stairs. Though if Anna had just wanted alone time with her sister, which I can totally understand, she should've told Kristoff that, as opposed to the rather ridiculous reason that he's a guy, and Anna tried introducing Elsa to a guy before, and she froze the kingdom when it happened, even though the surrounding circumstances were entirely different in both cases. At this point, Kristoff still seems a bit worried that Elsa might be dangerous, despite her impressive cryoarchitectural skills, and that Anna might not be able to talk some sense into her, so he clearly would've made some difference if the movie hadn't left him outside, whatever the reason.
Hans should've waited
- I realized this after watching CinemaSins' review of Frozen - Hans could've found a better time to betray Anna and reveal his true nature. If he would've kissed her when she asked him to, even if it hadn't worked, it still wouldn't have required him to risk nobody believing him when he went to fake their wedding vows to the other dignitaries - knowing Anna, she would've probably left the kingdom to him anyway. And on the off chance that it had worked and thawed her heart, he still could've found a way of arranging Elsa's execution without Anna finding out or turning against him, couldn't he?
- Without finding out? I think that would be almost impossible.
- Even if they were married, Anna still would never let him kill Elsa. Remember, she clearly loves Elsa enough that she would refuse to let someone put a scratch on her. Doing it behind her back would only delay her from figuring it out for a short while at most. He already figured she'd need bumping off so he could ascend, so he might as well take the opportunity now when she's already mortally wounded and not in a position to interfere.
- There are a lot of ways he could've done the deed inconspicuously, especially since Anna didn't yet know that Elsa had also been returned to Arendelle. After kissing Anna, Hans could've just done a low-profile execution of some kind before she recovered completely, told Anna that Elsa left the kingdom, that she attacked him and his men and they had no choice but to shoot her/stab her...He could've made up any number of stories to explain Elsa's disappearance or how it wasn't solely his fault - at that point, Anna's opinion of Elsa after being struck by her powers isn't very high, so Hans could've easily swayed her to think more along the lines of what he wanted her to.
- It's still a pretty complicated plan and all still relies on Hans placing Anna as a high priority. To a guy as cold-hearted as him, she's not a high priority and might eventually, if not already, be an annoyance. Killing her later when she's recovered, even years down the line, leaves the chance that the murder could be traced, while letting her die her makes it seemingly untraceable. He only had a few seconds to think about it after finding out Anna was mortally wounded, and the simplest route is to just let her die. And he can't accelerate that process by smothering her to death because a corpse that clearly died from something other than internal freezing would discredit hm.
Why give away free blankets and soup?
- When Anna is still in the north mountain Hans is very generous with the citizens of Arendelle. Why would he feel the need to make an impression on them when Anna is likely dead? Even he's surprised when Anna returns from the North Mountain.
- If he makes a good impression on the commoners and on the palace staff, few will mind him staying on the throne if Anna and Elsa have died. He needs the people's approval so there won't be a succession crisis or a revolt. Surely they would be mad at first that some foreign prince is now ruling their nation, but not if they see him as the best alternative.
- Hans understands the rules a lot better. If he wants to take the throne and have more support, he needs to do something to gain the public's trust so that they'll vouch for him.
Out of Character Moment
- So, as we all know, Anna spends between 25-50% of the movie making brash, impulsive decisions, and in a lot of cases, even for someone like Anna, they're only made in order to advance the plot - Anna falling in love with Hans, Anna pressuring Elsa about opening up, Anna going out to look for Elsa without so much as a winter dress, Anna enlisting the help of a grumpy stranger to help her climb the North Mountain, Anna insisting that they leave immediately at night when it would be safer to travel by day, Anna trying to climb a steep cliff face even after aforementioned grumpy stranger she hired is telling her how dangerous it is, Anna pressuring Elsa even more about opening up...I'm accepting of the fact that it's part of her character, but then we have the part where she asks Kristoff to wait outside when they arrive at Elsa's palace, suggesting that introducing Elsa to another guy might make things even worse. When did she gain these sudden powers of forethought, and more importantly, why doesn't she use them from that point on? Her suggesting that Kristoff wait outside for such a reason goes against her character and was really only there as a way of keeping him out of the scene, especially since in the very next scene, Anna goes right back to smiling, singing, and cheerily trying too hard without thinking to convince her sister to come back home, without realizing how worried or damaged Elsa is by this point.
- It's not "sudden powers of forethought." It's basic pattern recognition — when Anna brought Hans to Elsa, she freaked out. This happened, like, less than 48 hours earlier, so Anna remembers that. She's a little dim in thinking that's the main reason Elsa freaked outnote , but she doesn't have to suddenly change character to decide not to bring Kristoff inside.
- Fine, but she still proceeds to go right into the palace and repeatedly pressure Elsa and insist that she come back home and that if Elsa just tries, then everything will turn out alright. She already tried doing this throughout her entire childhood and it didn't work, and she tried it again at the coronation, and those times were both when she didn't know about Elsa's powers - shouldn't she have realized, in the same vein she realized about Kristoff, that perhaps a calmer approach to Elsa would work better? Trying to talk to her and help her work through her problem still with optimism, but also caution and some control, instead of just smiling and telling her it will eventually go away? (I will admit that she does sort of try this, but it's only after Elsa has struck her heart with her powers and is thus even more frightened and apprehensive than usual.)
- So now you want Anna to suddenly act out of character and behave like the completely competent therapist and counselor which she clearly is not? Don't you remember that line from "Fixer Upper," the one that went, "People make bad choices when they're mad or scared or stressed?" People don't always take the most optimal action at any given moment. In fact they usually don't. Remember that this is true in movies and real life. Having had her previous memories of Elsa's magic erased by Grand Pabbie, Anna clearly does not really understand what's going on, and the course of action you're suggesting would require that she does, and that she have particular training and preparedness to psychologically analyze and help someone in Elsa's mental condition.
- No...Not at all. I'm perfectly fine with Anna being impulsive if it's part of her character. But she could've just told Kristoff the same thing she told Olaf: to give her and her sister some time to talk things over by themselves by waiting outside, instead of saying it's to avoid Elsa getting upset again by Anna meeting another guy.
- The "give us a minute" thing clearly applies to both of them. The extra thing she tells Kristoff isn't instead of, it's in addition to what she told Olaf. This is really getting into nitpicking here.
- Anna's spent her entire life watching Elsa and if she's learned one thing from her childhood between age 5 and 18, it's "Elsa doesn't like being around people, especially complete strangers". She's even nervous when it's just her and is actually surprised the door opened for her ("It opened! That's a first."). Anna knows this is going to be an uphill battle but it has to be done and she thinks she has enough of a grasp on the situation at last that Elsa will finally let her be close and help.
Why didn’t the Princesses go, as well?
- Why didn’t Anna and Elsa accompany their parents on the voyage that ultimately cost them their lives? Coming from how people are thinking they were travelling overseas in order to attend the wedding of their niece, Rapunzel, wouldn’t Anna and Elsa have been expected at their ages to have made appearances as Princesses of Arendelle? Or were Agdar and Idun just seeking some sort of a vacation without having to look after their daughters? A king and queen going on a trip and leaving their two daughters behind for an unexplained reason comes off sounding...kind of mean.
- Because they've already been isolating Elsa from the world until she can control her powers, which she hasn't. Elsa's practically under house arrest.
- It's possible Elsa had learned to control her powers, or suppress them at the very least - her parents certainly seemed comfortable enough to leave her there alone, and the reason she was so upset later was clearly because they had passed away, and she had no idea how to connect with anyone else.
- She clearly did not and they knew that. It's not they were "comfortable enough to leave her there alone," it was, "they were not comfortable risking her going anywhere else." And...yes, that's why she was upset? What's that got to do with anything?
- There's a big difference between being trusted with staying alone in the house you've grown up in and being trusted to go out in public, especially since the risk and potential consequences of disaster would be much greater on the voyage. Worst case scenario at home, Elsa freezes her room, again. Worst case scenario on the voyage, Elsa creates an iceberg and sinks their ship or unleashes a blizzard on the wedding.
- Elsa's inability to control her powers might have been a contributing factor, but the real reason is that you just don't put your entire line of succession on the same boat. That's an easy way to bring your dynasty to an end with a short and really sharp blow. The king, queen, and both kids die if (and in this case, when) the boat sinks and the result is a full-on civil war in Arendelle, if not an invasion by your neighbors who might want to annex your territory. It's the same reason why the US Secret Service always has a designated survivor for any situation where the entire US presidential line of succession could be zapped.
- Furthermore, even if the trip itself is uneventful, this is the 1830s we're talking about, when the absence of the entire royal family from Arendelle for any amount of time might be just enough of a weakness to spark off some ambitious or rebellious lord who wants power to himself; do you really want to come back and find that you have to re-invade your own country? Probably not. It might be mean to Anna and Elsa, but by keeping them in Arendelle, the royal family's presence in the kingdom is maintained even while Agdar and Idun are making a state visit elsewhere. This also keeps Arendelle's economy stabilized if the worst should happens and keeps the royal bloodline intact. Monarchies, even to this day, are all about the bloodline, dynasty, and continuity. In short, Agdar and Idun didn't bring their daughters along because, well, Elsa still didn't have control of her powers, and because they've probably made enough enemies who probably want the power of the throne to themselves.
Elsa's reaction to Anna's "death."
- So Elsa's powers seem to run out of control and intensify based on her fears, stress, sadness and being overal upset. But at the climax of the movie Hans claims that Elsa had killed Anna when she had frozen her heart. This makes Elsa collapse to her knees in utter despair and causes the snowstorm to completely die down. But shouldn't the emotional impact of Anna's supposed death have caused the exact opposite effect and make Elsa's powers go completely haywire? If anything the news should have made the temperature plummet to absolute zero rather than dispel the snowstorm.
- Theory: Elsa didn't quite realize yet, but since it takes love to fully control her powers, her grief that Anna had died let her unconsciously contain them while she mourned. Only after Anna dethawed did she put two and two together and figure out how she did that.
- Elsa’s powers were out of control earlier in the film due to her being not only upset, but also frantic, anxious, and in a panic as she struggled to restrain her feelings and fix things. When faced with a truly tragic event, however, such as the deaths of Anna and her parents, she comes to lose her grip on everything, even her own powers, due to finally allowing herself a chance to cry, and to grieve, and to reflect on the love she felt for her family. Much like in “Let It Go”, she manages to control her powers by just letting her feelings flow, be they happy or sad, in both cases due to believing that she has nothing else to lose, although for different reasons. Bottom line is, it was never about containing her powers by containing her emotions...All she needed was to release her emotions, to let them flow naturally, and her powers would eventually follow on their own.
- Her powers run haywire when she feels negative emotions, but in different ways depending on which negative emotion. When she's feeling anxiety and turmoil, she gets a snowstorm swirling around her, but deep, numbing emotional shock from something like the death of a family member causes the weather to go very still to the point that the snowflakes actually hang immobile in midair.
Creating Olaf during "Let It Go"
- An earlier question supplied an answer for where Anna and Elsa got the things they needed to give Olaf his nose, buttons and arms when they built him as kids. But when Elsa builds Olaf during "Let It Go," how is it that her magic is able to summon the twigs to create his arms or the coal to create his buttons, when there's no possible nearby source for either item (we already know that Anna supplies a carrot from Kristoff's pouch for animated Olaf's nose)? Rule of Cool? Or is it something else?
- I believe her powers may have tapped into the icy winter winds that were in the area around the North Mountain, and she used them either subconsciously or otherwise to carry the things she needed to build him to her from afar. All it would've taken were a few twigs and some bits of stone, both of which are probably easily found in the mountains of Arendelle.
Elsa And Depression/Anxiety
- So is Elsa actually depressed/anxious, or supposed to represent those two illnesses, or are people just projecting their own interpretation onto the character and complaining when it's not canon? Because I never got the idea that she was supposed to "represent" any sort of mental illness, let alone actually have it. I mean, she's anxious about her powers being revealed, but she seems fine with herself after she realizes that she doesn't have to hide her magic anymore.
- Co-director Jennifer Lee has confirmed that Elsa suffers from depression. Elsa actually isn't fine again after "Let It Go"; she's still withdrawing from the world, and after learning her powers are still affecting Arendelle she tries to withdraw even further. Pulling away and denying help from things you once found fun is a pretty big symptom of depression.
No attempt to tackle Hans?
- From a writers' perspective, having Anna step in front of Hans just as he's swinging the sword, and thus 'sacrificing himself for her', constitutes the 'act of love ' clause. It's noted on Fridge Horror that if Anna had frozen a second too late she'd have been sliced to death. Logically speaking, wouldn't it have made more sense to try to push/tackle Hans so that he at least drops his sword?
- Given that she can barely stand upright under her own power at that point and is using literally the last bit of energy she has, chances are a chance to push / tackle him would only be very easily brushed aside and next to useless. Even if she's killed, as far as she's concerned she's dead anyway, so she might as well go out in a last-ditch attempt to protect her sister.
- Given that she is slowly freezing solid it is unlikely Anna is thinking clearly, or at all. It's pure protective instinct that causes her to throw herself between Hans and Elsa.
Frozen heart, freezing body
- How does the part about Anna's body freezing from getting hit with Elsa's ice work? Does ice travel through her bloodstream until her entire body freezes over?
- It's magic.
- Elsa's magic appears to emerge as energy of sorts before solidifying into ice form. Getting struck with that energy before it's turned into ice is what causes the problem. Perhaps it affects one on something of a "spiritual" level (for lack of a better word), causing your soul itself to freeze over and therefore your body.
- I'm one to think that the freezing started in her heart, slowly freezing her bloodstream over. Eventually, it spread and turned to her skin, and, uh, her body started to be converted into ice on a molecular level.
"Love, of course...Of course?"
- I'm not sure whether this has been brought up already, but at the end of the film, what is it that Elsa realizes that suddenly allows her to thaw the kingdom? She spends the entire movie denying that she knows anything about how to undo the curse, but then after Anna saves her, she just says "Love," waves her arms at the ground, and boom, the kingdom thaws.
- She saw that Anna's freezing was undone by their mutual feelings of love. Before she had been trying to restrain her powers by repressing all feeling. But having seen now that happy emotions did the opposite, she tried invoking those instead. Pretty quickly indeed, but that's what she figured out.
- But hadn't she felt similar positive feelings before, during "Let It Go"? Even if they weren't stimulated by love, the general optimism was still there. And I know that trying to keep from worrying about something, as Elsa did when she found out about the winter, can be very difficult, but this still begs questions like if love in itself is the only thing that can act as a cure for ice magic, does that mean different emotions can lead to many different outcomes? If so, why didn't the film seem to address this? And why didn't Grand Pabbie mention love acting as a cure to Elsa in the beginning?
The Un-Proactive Trolls
- I don't hold much against the trolls themselves - they're pretty funny, and a lot of their miscommunications could just as well be attributed to Anna and Elsa's parents. But then there's how unproactive they are. At the beginning, they seem to recognize the king, which would imply some sort of history with him, and Grand Pabbie is shown giving Elsa some advice on coming to terms with her magic. But after this scene, they never really seem to do anything on their own, even when the situation would call for it - after the king and queen die, during the coronation, when the entire kingdom is cast into the frigid heart of an eternal winter, all of these, we can presume that all the trolls do is sit all curled up into boulders in their valley and wait for Anna and Kristoff to come find them. So if they were really as useful as the film shows them to be on the two occasions that we see them, why don't they ever do more to...help out, in some way?
- What makes you think they even know about any of that stuff? Their valley seems untouched by the winter, and they're not at the Coronation. Going out and getting involved is just apparently not something they do.
- Wasn't there supplementary material somewhere about how the trolls actually turn to stone during the day (explaining why we only see them at night)? Regardless of that, the trolls probably know about the rest of Arendelle being frozen over, but they probably don't care because they have the geothermal features and geysers and whatnot to keep their area warm and snow free. In fact, they probably don't see a need to help anyone.
Shouldn't Elsa have a Privy Council?
- Is it my imagination or are all the people in the room discussing the future of Arendelle OUTSIDERS? Y'know, people from other countries like Weselton and the Southern Isles? Especially when one of them - and I think it's Hans or the Duke - orders guards (of Arendelle) to capture/kill Elsa. Hello? Who died and made you the leader? What happened to there being a Privy Council to run things in the absence of Elsa or a regent? Even the smallest kingdom in the real world had one of those, right? I know that Agdar trimmed down the staff a lot after Elsa accidentally hurt Anna, but....how can you eliminate your Privy Council? They should be the ones working to decide Elsa's fate once she's brought back to Arendelle, not outsiders.
- This topic has really been discussed time and time again. Yes, it doesn't make much sense, but what people have boiled it down to is as follows...
- Elsa is queen.
- When she runs away, she effectively abdicates the throne to the princess Anna.
- Because Anna goes to chase after her so quickly, there's no discussion over who runs the kingdom while she's gone, so people have taken her "I leave Prince Hans in charge!" line to mean that Hans has now officially been handed complete control of Arendelle. (I sincerely doubt that would be legal within any monarchy in real life, no matter what the situation, but hey.)
- When Anna returns to Arendelle, Hans leaves her for dead and fakes their wedding vows to the other dignitaries, who accept him as their new king (even though most of them aren't even FROM ARENDELLE) without asking to speak with the priest, witnesses, Hans' wedding ring, or the supposed bride.
- To cement his status as king (once again, to a bunch of outsiders), Hans declares Elsa guilty of treason (without a trial; there hasn't even been a trial to strip her of her title or disown her from the family at this point, so technically, she can't really even be charged with treason, as it would require her to commit a treasonous act against herself.).
- In short, the film doesn't handle the formalities of this whole running Arendelle thing very well, because it's mostly too focused on the other, arguably more important aspects of it, but still delves just deep enough to bring into question how it works and why it wasn't explored deeper. It really just comes down to everyone saying that Anna's line about putting Hans in charge somehow nets him control of all of Arendelle - because, somehow, the word of an immature, impulsive, 18-year-old princess is more effective than the royal family's council.
- To me it seeems that it's not so much a case of Anna's word trumping the royal council, as there is no royal council. Though a city-state (as Arendelle seems to be) would be expected to have less "middle management" nobility between the monarch and the commoners than a larger kingdom, you would still expect there to be some, but in Arendelle there seems to be none at all. So when the king dies, there is no regent, and Elsa becomes de facto queen immediately even though she puts off her coronation for a few years. When she freaks out and runs off, there is no one for the power to go to but Anna, and despite her absolute lack of qualification, she apparently has absolute power, including the power to delegate authority to whoever she wants, since there's simply no other power structure in place to prevent that. The foreign dignitaries apparently understand that this is how it works in Arendelle, so they regard Hans as the legitimate authority there, and as guests, they look to him as the leader. So it's not hard to understand how a monarchial government could be structured to allow this. What's really astounding, though, is how a monarchy with such a simplistic power structure and absolutely no safeguards could have survived this long. It really seems like it's just begging to be usurped (which could be why Hans targeted it, but that still leaves the question of how it even survived up till then. It really doesn't seem conducive to long-term political stability.)
- Also, they were originally going to have starred Anna and Elsa's uncle, who would act as a regent, but scrapped him as he was deemed unimportant, using certain aspects of his design and/or character for the Duke of Weselton.
- This topic has really been discussed time and time again. Yes, it doesn't make much sense, but what people have boiled it down to is as follows...
The Not-Villain Song
- Exactly how was it that the developers went through so much of the process of making Elsa the (redeemable) villain, but then they wrote "Let It Go" and realized that...she hadn't done anything wrong? Or that the song was too inspiring to be sung by a villainous character? There were ways around both of these problems - freezing the kingdom on its own was a pretty bad deed, and if you listen to the song in a certain way, it could sort of come off like Elsa had known what she'd done and just not cared, which would certainly be the mark of a villainous, if misunderstood, character. Not to mention, they wrote the film. They could write in more bad stuff for Elsa to do to cement her status if they wanted to. And as for it being too "inspiring"...what are they saying there? That characters who are known as villains can't also be looked at as inspiring or relatable? (Point is, I guess, Elsa in the final film doesn't really do anything, besides show up in a few places and then convey the whole "power of love" thing in the end, which even then would've been stronger if she was the misunderstood villain redeemed by her love for her sister. And the developers clearly intended for her to be the villain, so what made them change it?)
- There's another factor being left out here. When Elsa was the villain, she really came off as a Card-Carrying Villain with no depth, which is very much not what they wanted. When "Let It Go" was recorded, they saw a different path toward making her a complex, nuanced character, and thought it was more interesting.
- But why not just make her a villain who had some depth? That would've served to give her some importance to the story, instead of being all but forgotten after Anna and Kristoff meet her? In my opinion, a character who embraces villainy and does villainous things due to being feared and ostracized by her people would make for a very interesting character - in certain versions of the original tale, such is the backstory of the Snow Queen herself - whereas Elsa just seems to be portrayed as...too innocent, too frightful at times. Why not just make her the villain, have her freeze Arendelle intentionally, or at least not care that she'd done it intentionally, effectively renouncing her connection to other people, only to have Anna's love and sacrifice for her despite all she's done win out in the end, leading her into a change of heart so she can redeem herself. Wouldn't that make for at least a bit more interesting story?
- "All but forgotten"? What movie were you watching?
- What I meant was, after she strikes Anna in the heart, the story shifts from trying to get Elsa home to stop the winter and instead focuses on Kristoff trying to get Anna to the trolls, and then to Hans before her heart freezes. Yes, we cut back to Elsa on occasion, but she doesn't have her own story to for us to follow, nor does she really influence Anna's and Kristoff's until they're reunited at the climax. What I was saying is, treating Elsa as the villain would've been a better move than just treating her as a secondary character.
- At no point is she treated as a secondary character. She's a main character who's not on screen for a bit because she's unconscious. Just because there's a couple scenes she's not in doesn't mean she's "secondary" or that she's "all but forgotten." She's still one of the two central characters, she just isn't the direct focus for a scene or two.
Olaf after the movie
- I actually had quite a few questions about Olaf...He seems to stay and live with Anna and Elsa at the castle - how exactly would they have to accommodate him? Would magical snowman need to eat or sleep? And when Elsa grows old and dies, what will happen to him? Everyone seemed to think the winter would end in the movie if Elsa was killed, so would Olaf similarly melt if she passed away?
- This was actually suggested on WMG that perhaps Olaf and Marshmallow were tied to Elsa's life force.
- Frozen Fever shows he's capable of eating cake, though it doesn't appear he needs to eat to live.
- This raises questions like, does Olaf have a digestive tract and whatnot?
Do you want to build a snowman... Seriously?
- I mean, how could Anna keep asking Elsa to build a snowman after her memories about playing with snow coming from Elsa's powers were erased? Wasn't she supposed to forget that her sister had snow/ice powers?
- She lost the memories of the powers, not the memories of playing with the snow. The troll dude is explicit — and puts up a brief demonstration — that she's keeping her memories of the fun they had. Anna remembers making snowmen and sledding with Elsa just fine. She just doesn't remember Elsa using magic powers to do it.
Did Elsa realize what she'd done?
- After the reprise of For the First Time in Forever, does Elsa know that she struck Anna with her powers? She turns around, sees Anna hunched over and gripping her chest, and seems to appear distressed by this, but if she does know what she did, why doesn't she do anything like acknowledge it, apologize, or advise Anna to go to the trolls, and why did she seem surprised when Hans told her Anna had died from it? How had she expected her to survive without knowing the cure or who could help her find it?
- Did she understand that to some extent, she had accidentally injured Anna with her powers? Yes. Did she understand that she had cursed Anna's heart and that Anna would be magically transformed into an ice sculpture without an "Act of True Love" to reverse the curse? Probably not. When Anna got up and seemed to be fine, Elsa's thought shifted from "Oh God what have I done?!" to "I need to get her out of here before I hurt her any worse". Thus, the appearance of Marshmallow to forcibly eject her from the building.
- Fair enough. But even if she thought it was just a scrape or something, and was still very upset, why didn't she even consider telling her she should go see the trolls? Anna almost dying after being hit in the head is what led to Elsa's isolation when they were kids - you'd think she wouldn't want something like that to happen again, right?
Is Arendelle a city-state?
- There don't seem to be any heavily inhabited areas in the kingdom besides the capital city, and said capital doesn't seem to have a specific name unless it is Arendelle. It could be that the borders extend far beyond the area shown in the film, but then it doesn't make sense to equate freezing that area with freezing the entire kingdom, unless that area is the entire kingdom.
- Yep, this troper basically assumed Arendelle was a city-state with a port. Even a small city-state of 10,000-20,000 would need at least 100,000-200,000 people in villages and towns to support it, and then there's the trade they get from neighboring places. The idea of a single unified kingdom for an entire country is a lot less common than people think, and it was more usual for a country to be split into a dozen or so petty-kingdoms.
"In Summer" imagine spot
- So when that shot of Anna and Kristoff with Dagwood Sandwiches comes up in "In Summer," is that supposed to be Olaf imagining them there, or are Anna and Kristoff just trying to put some sort of visual to Olaf's lyrics?
- I think this is a good indication that this page is getting a bit too long. It's just a song number. It's not meant to be taken that seriously. Basically, yes, it was Olaf's imagination.