Before all the lying starts, how come the fact that Olive supposedly had sex with ONE person affected the school so much? In a large public school like that, many of the kids would have had sex. No one really would care unless it was with a lot of people or something like that. Also, Olive is a nobody which makes it even weirder that people would care.
Don't forget that the story is being told from Olive's perspective, and gossip seems more prevalent when it's about you. Probably, the initial wave of rumor and innuendo would have died down in a little while had Olive not begun feeding more grist into the rumor mill.
Either the writer/s were out of touch with that part of teenage life, or they were taking artistic license to make the story work.
Well, it was her first date with the guy and he was supposedly from college. One night stand with some college dude would warp pretty quickly, especially since it's implied Olive hasn't been in a relationship before.
Actually, Truth in Television. Olive was an invisible, unnoticeable good girl that did something 'bad'. Those who didn't know much about her would be surprised to know she lost her virginity (which in high school, especially one as conservative as the one shown, is a big deal), while those that did know anything about her would find it surprising that 'that one good girl' did something 'naughty'. As a guy who grew up as an invisible, unnoticeable good guy who had friends of similar reputation, you did anything that people don't consider perfect, they will make a bigger deal about it then its really worth. Essentially, people were shocked that the good girl Olive lost her virginity because they didn't expect her of all people to lose it.
Pretty much everything about Rhiannon bugs me, but let's start with the most glaring piece of Fridge Logic: When Olive first "confesses" to losing her virginity, Rhiannon sqeals, "Finally!" Then, like a minute later, it's implied that she herself is still a virgin. Why would she feel it's high time that Olive had sex when she herself never has? Aren't they the same age?
I took it as how she presents herself to be worldly, but really isn't. it's pretty common, and not just amongst the teen-age. It's one reason why adults (who are often blind to this pretense) assume everything kids say is true, particularly about their sexual experience.
She also mentioned that, while she hasn't actually had sex herself, she considered herself 'a super slut' because she let someone motorboat her in front of people. It also went with her character, Rhiannon constantly makes a big deal out of everything, especially when it concerns Olive.
I was very annoyed by the implication Olive was going to patch up their friendship. Olive may have lied, but Rhiannon wasn't a particularly good friend even when they were friends, and later on showed her true colours and tried to get Olive expelled for apparently being "sluttier," than Rhiannon was. After that, why the fuck would Olive want to kiss and make up?
It never says she does. That's one way to read her text-message at the end wherein she apologized for lying, but that could also be read another way. Sometimes an apology is a way of ending a relationship, not renewing it. An apology, after all, is a way of discharging an obligation, and discharging an obligation is a way of severing a tie. That apology might have been Olive's way of saying, in effect, 'Now I can be done with you.' I'm not saying that that is definitely how it should be read, but it certainly could be.
I read it as almost sarcastic. After they stop talking, Olive finds out that Rhiannon has been lying (or omitting the truth) to her about kissing Todd, probably more. Olive apologizes to her for lying, and Rhiannon looked pretty guilty. Maybe Olive was really just subtly rubbing Rhiannon's lies that she never apologized for/admitted, and her refusal TO admit or apologize for them, into *her* face?
I hate how Rhiannon didn't believe Olive when she said she didn't have sex. If she was such good friends with her, wouldn't she trust her and/or know when a) Olive was lying and b) what it would take for Olive to have sex? And why was she so convinced about the sex? Just because you go on a date doesn't mean you lose your virginity, especially in high school.
Olive was lying. Rhiannon could have noticed this, and assumed she was getting the truth when Olive changed her story and "confessed." And let's face it. Olive did make it sound like a "one weekend stand" when she started talking about "all that love, and knowing it's mine" followed with "no, it was just one of those weekends." Not saying that this is what happened, but it it could have been. Also, Rhiannon might have been resentful toward Olive because she started acting like someone she didn't use to, and instead of a better or more mature response, she became angry with her.
I got the impression that Rhiannon was not a terribly good friend to Olive. They seemed like girls who had been friends as little kids and remained so out of habit rather than because they still had lots in common. As for assuming about sex, well she obviously just thinks in those terms.
This Troper got the impression Rhiannon was living vicarious through Olive much like most viewers do. Getting it on with a College boy is cool for her, becoming the school slut was going too far, after all Rhiannon isn't a slut!
Depends on whose vantage point you're looking at. Olive lied to her, and then wouldn't seriously tell her the truth. Then she started spreading news around about sleeping with other people, and hanging out with different crowds without telling her. Rhiannon went too far, but Olive was a pretty bad friend herself. No one is spotless.
I got the impression that Olive didn't feel that Rhiannon would listen to/believe the truth, and Rhiannon never seemed like the type who was into really into listening what others had to say to begin with.... at one point (right after the "calling Nina a twat" incident) Olive tried to calm Rhiannon down enough to tell her the truth about the non-existent college guy, but Rhi just steamrolled right over her and seemed totally non-receptive to hearing anything that didn't match her own take on the situation. Many friendships can be one-way streets in this sense, especially when one personality is so much more dominant, as Rhiannon's personality seems to be.
Olive claims that her outfit doesn't violate the school dress code because her skirt reaches below her fingertips. So the school monitors hemlines, but not necklines?
This troper's school has an official policy about the length of hemlines, but no such neckline policy.
That's how it is in many schools, as they are more concerned about exposure of the south than the northern exposure.
Better Just Bugs Me? The hemline of her boy-shorts in the musical number is most definitely above her fingertips. How was she not yanked out of the gym by the scruff of her neck?
She was, just not right away. I think it's fair to suppose that the principal was so stunned that it took him a moment to react.
Occasionally PE has different rules about sportswear.
Cheerleaders, specifically, generally have different rules. It's supposed to be because the skirts are designed to be a little less risque—length isn't the only indicator, and the school gets to veto cheerleading uniforms—but it's enough for a loophole.
Brandon running away from home to shack up with an older man. I certainly feel his pain, but that's what we in the gay community call "A bad idea."
Teenagers aren't exactly well-known for always making great decisions, though. Especially gay teenagers who have faced a lot of homophobia from family and peers. Not saying it was a great idea for him to do that, but it's not exactly unrealistic for a teen in his situation.
And they did seem happy together.
I didn't get the impression he was older - just "big".
Why (and how) would Mrs. Griffith convince Olive's principal not to kick her out of school? Olive revealed she (Mrs. Griffith) had slept with a student as part of her confession.
This bothered me too, but the conclusion I came to was that Olive was referring to the fact that Mrs. Griffith had exposed the school to an enormous lawsuit by Olive's parents. The school would almost certainly be liable for the fact that its guidance counselor knowingly allowed a minor to take the blame for her illicit affair. So Olive might have meant that if he talks to Mrs. Griffith, Principal Gibbons would realize that the school couldn't afford to expel Olive.
Don't forget, the webcast didn't START until 6 p.m., which was well after the pep rally was over.... therefore, Olive had not even started the webcast of her "confession" when she told the principal to talk to Mrs. Griffin. We, as the audience, knew about Mrs. Griffith's affair with a student, but most of the characters in the movie didn't know yet.
This might be Fridge Brilliance, but it seems clear to me that Mrs. Griffith must have cheated on her husband at least once before Micah. After all, she had to get chlamydia herself to give to him. Also, she claims to Olive that she and her husband hadn't slept together in months, but in an earlier scene, we clearly see Mr. Griffith flirting with her and indicating his desire to have sex. She turns him down because she has an after-school meeting that we later discover was with Micah. So it's pretty clear that whatever problems exist in her marriage are her fault.
Definitely. I think perhaps she's a woman worried she's only attractive to her husband now that she's getting older and the fact that Micah (and whomever else) found her attractive was too hard to resist. On a related note, the fact that Mrs. Griffith so called accused Oliver of anything was shallow and pathetic. I hated her in that moment.
I'd say that Mrs. Griffith is no longer attracted to her husband, even though he definitely still finds her attractive, so she's been the one avoiding sex with him and not the other way around.
In the scene where the evangelical Christian students are picketing Olive with placards, Rhiannon is holding a sign that says "Exodus 20:14." In my copy of the Bible (the JPS edition), Exodus 20:14 is "You shall not covet...." It's the preceding verse that contains the commandment against adultery. This certainly could be just because different editions of the Bible have slightly different chapter and verse numbering, but it might be another case of Fridge Brilliance, since Olive speculates in the same scene that what is really motivating Rhiannon's anger is envy of Olive's "popularity."
The whole purpose of chapters and verses in the Bible is that chapters and verses are all the same in all "editions" of the Bible. It was either an error that wasn't caught, or Rhiannon is being shown to be stupid.
That's the idea, but not the reality, especially since different religions and sects use slightly different original texts. Apparently, Exodus 20:14 is "You shall not commit adultery" in many versions.
When I Googled "Exodus 20:14" the first link it returned said "You shall not commit adultery".
In general, the Chapter/Verse numbering is consistent. However, the particular verse in question is from the Ten Commandments, about which there is significant disagreement over how to number the verses.
Marianne comes across as an evangelical Protestant, but her father sounds much more like a mainline Protestant. His statement "The Christian Church recognizes the existence of hell" sounds like the phrasing that a Catholic or a high-church Episcopalian would use. Not that evangelicals don't believe in hell, but the phrasing "the Church recognizes" sounds like something you'd hear from one of the more institutionalized, hierarchical varieties of Christianity. Of course, there's nothing conclusive to indicate that Marianne is an evangelical, it's just the impression I get.
Why can't they be different religions? My Mom is Catholic, my Dad is a lapsed Mormon and I'm Atheist. Religion isn't genetically encoded.
True, except Marianne at one point says that Micah "goes to our church." The "our" in that sentence implicitly refers to her family, suggesting that she and her parents are of the same denomination. I'm not saying its impossible for them to be of different religions, but it's not likely.
Some Episcopalians are evangelicalists, especially in certain regions of the country. The denomination varies all over the board on issues. Also, Marianne's dad could also be a priest of the Anglican Church of America (an offshoot of the Episopal Church of America) that does not even ordain women.
Olive at one point, gets sent to the Principal for calling a girl a twat, when has that word ever been considered so bad that someone would get detention for using it? In Britain it isn't really even considered a swearword, at least it isn't in the part of Scotland this troper lives in.
It is in America.
This American troper didn't get why it was thought of as so bad either. Probably because they didn't want the rating that comes with using a certain synonym for "twat" that certainly would get you sent to the principal's office ...
This is the reason, the original version of the film was a Cluster F-Bomb, and the original word was 'Cunt'. They must have forgot to change it.
This troper was initially surprised that she got into trouble at all, most British swearwords flying beneath the radar in the US, the fact that her Principal is British himself however explains it, as he no doubt knows exactly what it means.
What I didn't understand is that Olive got in trouble for calling Nina a twat...only because Nina called her a tramp first. Why didn't Nina get punished?
"Twat" is a swearword in America. It's a vulgar word for a vagina there. What words are considered swearwords change by region. Detention is an acceptable punishment—but threatening to expel her for more then two violations at a public school is ridiculous. The fact that Olive doesn't comment on it probably is an age thing with the writers.
Or a cross between the principal being blustery and Olive being a good girl—it didn't really hit home as important because, well, she wasn't going to swear at school again. So no real point in arguing.
Olive is a very "live and let live" sort of person. She would rather not retaliate to the actions of others and if she does, it's only in proportion to what is done to her (snark for snark with Marianne, insult for insult with Nina, and only taking strong action against Mrs. Griffith after a reasonable plea failed). She would rather let the whole incident die than attempt to drag Nina down with her.
Two things bugged me about this movie, the first thing is that Olive is most likely still going to be expelled for her dance number, and maybe rightfully so considering how illicit it was and violated countless of the school rules. I doubt the principal cared enough to watch her little reveal later that night, and even if he did it had no bearing on why she shouldn't be punished for the Pep rally stunt. Second, I found it hard to feel sympathetic towards Olive because in the end she was giving out the impression that she was a slut. I mean at a certain point she should have just corrected Amanda Bynes character and Rhiannon. Not actively dispelling a rumor is one thing, but actively feeding it the way she was just added to her own problems.
She 'actively fed' the rumor after the realization she could help the 'losers' of the school. Before that, she did try to dispell the rumors.
She originally only fed it to help Brandon, who's sexuality was getting him bullied constantly and resulting in him being blamed for all his trouble. And even there, she only did so because no one else would. After that, she got annoyed at how people were treating her and talking about her because of it, so she basically decided 'Screw it, you want a tramp, HERE!' Her feeding it was merely her reaction to the rumours. There's also the fact that she, at least to some extent, enjoyed the new-found fame she got as it gave her an identifier, something she didn't have previously. Like Elliot in Scrubs, it may not be the ideal way to be known, but at least she's known. Of course, doing so was childish and the reality of her reputation soon became clear to her, which was why she realized she had to fix it. The film is largely a Way To Break It Hero plot; she 'broke' her reputation by allowing herself to be known as 'the one that Really Gets Around', and she had to try and fix it. There's also the fact that, as she says at the end, it shouldn't matter if she's a virgin or not, or if she's slept with all these people or not, its, frankly, nobody else's damn business WHO she sleeps with.
She did try to correct several people throughout the course of the film: Rhiannon (who ignored her until she heard the story she wanted), Marianne (who told her that God would judge her for what she "did"), Evan (who coerced her by saying that he'd do it with or without her permission), Mrs. Griffith (who wouldn't LISTEN to her despite that being her JOB), Anson (who tried to rape her anyway), her parents (who were still pretty skeptical)...Not that her solution was correct, but it's no wonder that after a while she didn't think anyone would listen to her.
As for being expelled, see a few subjects above: the awkwardness surrounding Mrs Griffith will probably keep her out of trouble.
Apparently what marks Olive's love interest out as a 'good guy' is that he doesn't believe the rumours about her... despite the fact that he made no attempt to dispel them, stand up for her or confront the people who were making her life hell. Apparently standing idly by makes you ideal boyfriend material.
To be fair...she was actively spreading the rumors as well.
Only after she realized she could help others. My guess would be Todd was both too busy with his own life to fix hers and thought she knew what she was doing. Which for a while she did. And then Micah went to the hospital and we know what happened from that.
Also he had no way to know if the rumours were true or not, he just didn't think they were. Given that he and Olive only got close later in the film and just knew each other to say hi to earlier he would have been meddling in a situation he knew very little about. Plus the guy wears a lobster on his head professionaly, he's got his own problems...
Considering how sappy and unrealistic the rest of the romance is, I'd say this was a refreshing bit of realism. He's not a bad guy because he doesn't involve himself in her affairs.
Also, it's not like she marries him at the end. They might date for a while and then break up later after they realize that they aren't really right for each other. They might fall in love and eventually get married. They might not fall in love, but decide to get married for some other reason, and have a happy life together anyway. Olive might decide to become an astronaut, make first contact with an alien civilization, and marry a member of that civilization. Who knows? More to the point, "it is nobody's G-d d—n business."
Exactly as others put, its not really his business to interfere with her, or he's too busy with his own stuff. I mean, for all the good parts of the film, he's largely a Satellite Love Interest, who exists for her to desire him. All that's important is he's aware of the rumours, he doesn't particularly believe in them because he knows her, but in spite of those rumous, he's not after sex. He just happens to like her as a person.
That damn orange that falls out of Olive's bag when she leaves the church. It has to be of some importance or it wouldn't have been there.
In the DVD commentary, the director did say that he tried to put oranges in every scene. I don't know why.
Or just Fridge Brilliance when you realize she confronted the guy that gave her the 20% off coupon while he was working in an orange grove. It could be that he tried making up for the lousy payment with some oranges from work?
What really bugs me about the movie is that Olive is beautiful and highly attractive and yet she is unpopular and never even remarked for her beauty, even going as far as no guys ever hitting on her. Normally in high school and college, guys would be all over that.
Not true at all. Just because you're pretty does not make you automatically popular and a man-magnet. I know plenty of very pretty girls at my school and most of them aren't noticed by most guys unless they are pretty well-liked and popular. It doesn't matter how attractive you are, it's your charisma, etc. After all, there cannot be romance without some sort of interaction beforehand.
This Troper concurs with the Troper above and would like to add that high school guys usually don't go for girls like Olive. Be it culture making a self fulfilling prophecy, or the guys being immature (please to be not taking offense, high school guys who might read this), there is a certain type of girl in high school who is considered datable. That girl is not intellectual, nor does she desire anything deeper in life than a hot guy and lots of "friends." If you don't fit the mold, no matter how pretty or charismatic you are, you will not be popular or a man-magnet.
One thing we can all agree on is Emma Stone is stunning.
Amen to that.
This is a case of Hollywood Homely. We (the viewers) think she's attractive, but the other characters might not.
I think the important part here is that she herself feels she is unattractive, or unllikable. Surely everyone here went to school with one or two people who were stunning, charming, nice people, who were convinced they were the dregs of the barrel. You don't need to be a gargoyle to think you're unattractive.
The frank truth is Hollywood Homely. Not only is Emma Stone gorgeous, she's also dressed for attention from the beginning—perfect make-up, perfect hair, and fashionable clothes. The closest movies come to making their main character in a teen comedy unattractive is like Cady from Mean Girls—still sleek and shiny hair, but in a ponytail. Baggy clothes. Less accentuated make-up. It still doesn't change the fact that Olive is very pretty, and in most situations would even be dressed confidently enough to attract attention, but didn't because of the plot.
Olive is definitely beautiful, but isn't the type to "dumb herself down" to attract the opposite sex and therefore is probably significantly less popular among the guys than the girls who DO pander to them.... there are many attractive girls in high schools everywhere who aren't the center of male attention for this exact reason.
Just my guess, here, but remember Olive's first actual date onscreen? She starts babbling on about diseases. She may be hot, but if her response to interest is to babble about inappropriate subjects, that's...unattractive.
This troper thinks it's pretty cute, actually, but the fact is, yeah, she's kind of a nerd, and everyone knows it. A lot of actually intelligent girls in high school conceal their intelligence to make themselves more attractive (sadly, this works in certain respects), and Olive clearly does not do this, nor does it even occur to her that she "should."
How is it that the fact that Olive fakes sex with people for gift cards gets spread around enough to attract a decent amount of "customers", but not enough to contradict the rumor that she's a slut?
Simple: dozens of people were present at Melody Bostick's party to hear Olive and Brandon pretend to have sex, but Brandon told only one person, Evan, what really happened; it's possible that Brandon told a couple of Olive's other clients. Likewise, Olive's clients each would have an incentive to reveal the truth to at most one or two close friends; the deception does them no good if the truth comes out. So a handful of people know the truth, but have no incentive to spread it widely, but the whole school hears the false rumors. Also, it's in the nature of gossip and rumor to produce multiple variations on any given tale, so there were probably multiple wild versions of each story about Olive flying around. Anyone who heard the true version might not necessarily believe it. Consider that Anson hears enough of the truth to know to offer Olive a gift card, but thinks that she'll really have sex with him.
Additionally: the guys are mostly going for a reputation with females and jocks. These are the groups who wouldn't need Olive's help anyway, so them being out of the loop doesn't really hurt business.
The "I feel bad about telling you the truth" bit. I just don't get that at all. I could see how she felt bad for being the one to bring him the bad news, but I seriously don't get why Olive feels bad about telling Mr Griffith about his wife, period.
I took it as Olive's inexperience in relationships. She honestly thought that the marriage breaking up was worse than him not knowing*
probably forgetting that he might get chlamydia if they ever had sex again...yeah
. It's the sort of thing that doesn't make sense if you think about it, but Olive wasn't thinking anything but "happy in relationship->my doing something->broken relationship", so blamed the step from point A to point B, her action.
I saw it more as her thinking that the way in which she told Mr. Griffith was too abrupt, perhaps, that she should've been more gentle in telling him. In other words, there's a better way to go about that than just bursting into someone's office/classroom/what-have-you and shouting, "Your wife's screwing someone else!" and then leaving.
Considering that all/most of Olive's problems come from wild gossip, I can see why she'd consider blurting out a scandalous one-liner to be gossip and thus wrong. Her purpose in that one moment was to hurt people, not help them, and she ran away rather than make it right.
Why won't the second guy Olive helped admit what really happened? Yeah, he's getting a lot of action because everything thinks he had sex with Olive but since he now has legitimate experience, what does it matter if the Olive-sex never happened? Is sleeping with her somehow cooler than just having had sex at all? Even though she's supposedly insanely easy?
Eh, I guess it's a whole "I've been a lie" type of thing.
Plus that guy was clearly a prick from the start.
A lot of people complain about the antagonists being over-the-top Christian fundies. It's not something that bugs me because I've met much worse people in real life. But what DOES confuse me is how much power they have. In real life, people who behave like that are often ridiculed by their peers. Said peers won't take anything they say seriously and will just make fun of them behind their backs. But these guys manage to get a school to change their mascot. They convince the entire school that a girl is a slut because she slept with ONE guy. One, it's a high school. Even finding out the "nice girl" lost her virginity shouldn't be a huge deal. Maybe people will gossip for a day, but they'll get over it quickly. Two, like I said, fundie people like these guys aren't usually respected or taken seriously. If you know a person is like that and they say someone is a slut, wouldn't you pretty much know they were over-exagerating?
I thought that people did seem to find the blue devil change to be ridiculous and annoying and Marianne's little club only had a handful of members. If Marianne's parents made a big fuss and threatened to sue then I can see the school folding even if the students aren't on board. And people didn't really seem to think that Olive was a slut at the beginning when it was just George. If anything, the attention seemed pretty positive and Olive was enjoying it and making no effort to correct the rumors. Sure, Nina already suggested that she wear an A on her clothes like Hester but not only did Hester also sleep with one guy to earn that reputation but Nina was one of Marianne's followers. It was only after her very public display with Brandon at a party and subsequent clients that Olive really started to get a reputation as a slut.
Different horses for different courses, I suppose; in some schools those groups would be on the low rung of the social pecking order, in others they'd be right up at the top. It depends on who goes there and who's in them, I suppose.
So, question: if the school principal was really prude/conservative, (only assuming that since he has a problem with gays) and the small fundamentalist Christian clique apparently had a lot of power and influence in the school (come on, they were able to get the mascot changed!) why wasn't there some kind of dress code? Maybe it was just the schools I went to, but I don't think many schools (at least not upper class ones like the one in the film) would really let Olive go around the halls dressed like that.
There was. I remember Olive specifically telling Mrs. Griffith that her hemline was never above her fingertips.
Maybe I'm slow, but how would the podcast vouch for Olive's innocence? And how did it work out for her mom since it was more or less true what they say about her?
The podcast certainly wouldn't prove Olive's innocence, and it's possible that some people, or perhaps most people, will not believe her. Both Rhiannon and Marianne seem to, but who knows how many others will? We don't see the next day at school, after all. It does seem likely that Olive is done with taking new clients, and will probably be dressing more conventionally in the future, so that might help her credibility. But ultimately, the purpose of the podcast is for Olive to tell the truth. Telling the truth is a means, toward others having true knowledge, but it is also an end in itself: it is important for Olive to tell the truth, regardless of whether she is believed. As for her mother, presumably she eventually changed her behavior, and entered a social circle where she didn't have a bad reputation, and moved on with her life.
Maybe Olive didn't care if people thought it was true. She got her side of the story out. That could be all that counted to her and be damned with what the other students said afterward.
Why didn't Olive demand payment in cash? Rule of Funny? Or was there some reason in the plot I'm missing?
These guys didn't have a lot of cash but they did have goods and services and Olive deemed the offerings acceptable for fake sex.
During Olive's meeting with Mrs. Griffith where she told her she had changed to mind and wanted to reveal the truth, why didn't she bring some kind of tape recorder or set her self-phone to record just in case Mrs. Griffith refused? Olive should have expected she would be reluctant to confess.
She was too naive to think that Mrs. Griffith would do that to her.
Why was her teacher watching the podcast? I'm pretty sure we don't see her explaining to him what it's really about, so...It's kind of dodgy that he's watching what he thinks will be one of his students in a rather, um, inappropriate context. And that she seems to be expecting him to be watching.
If this is a reference to Mr. Griffith, he never believed the rumors. Yes, Olive essentially announced to the school that she was going to have sex with Todd during the podcast. But in some ways, Mr. Griffith is Olive's closest friend at the school. He would have some idea whether or not the announcement was other than what it seemed. He may also be wondering about the background to Olive's long, shouted one-liner about how his wife was cheating on him. He may have been even hoping to see Olive in a risque situation, just to see that she has changed and restore his faith in his wife. There are several reasons he might have been watching besides the one that motivated most of the rest of the viewers.