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Black and Red angels
- Is it ever explained what the Black and Red "Angel" monsters you fight are? I kept waiting for an explanation, but neither the Watcher or the Hellgaurd ever comment on them.
- I always assumed they were fallen angels given that the game was based on the Bible's version of the Apocalypse and there was some mention of fallen angels and whatnot in there.
- Except a fallen angel is a demon, like on a definition level. I assumed they were just the max level angel enemy you fought. Their color notwithstanding on that, they have the same voice and same model as a "normal" angel, just red and black.
- Eh, doesn't sit right with me. The Reds and Blacks never fight with the "Standard" Hellgaurd formations. They look twisted and corrupt, and only attack with themselves or the demon forces.
- Keep in mind that this is Not your daddy's Armageddon, and line by line descriptions of what goes on in the Bible need not apply. The original Demons appear to be their own race with their own kingdom. WMG the black 'angels' are the fallen remnants of Heaven's army that was shut out of heaven after the battle (the majority of the game does take place a century after the premature Apocalypse) but didn't stick with Uriel and the Hellguard and were trying to tough it out on their own, the red angels were the ones who fell a bit further and actually sided with the demons for more power.
- I thought that the blueish-green ones were undead angels or something, given the presence of plenty of undead in the game already. The red ones seem to be corrupted and/or evil angels.
- Fallen Angels are not demons in this setting. Angels and Demons are their own races entirely, the Nephilim come from their own, original, background and nothing else seems to be consistent with mythology. This game is to Judeo-Christian mythology what God of War was to Greco-Roman - as in not something to try and expect the same rules to apply. The red angels work alongside demons so it's very easy to peg them as Fallen Angels and I'd say that's almost certainly what they are.
- According to Official Strategy Guides they're Fallen Angels. Blue/Green are lower ranked, while the Red/Black ones are higher ranked.
- The water pumping system still works after 100+ years.
- 100 years since the End War was started. They never say how long ago the last human died, or when the population dropped below the level where they could perform maintenance.
- One of the characters was originally going to be the Hunter, a super-badass last survivor type, and you can hear gunfire in the background in a number of places. Humans might not be quite gone yet.
- I know it might sound a little stupid, but... Where do the Celtic giants appear in the bible? (Also: Was I the only one who was absolutely sure Ulthane is going to be some kind of lovecraftian terror once he was referred to as "One of the Old Ones"?
- Well, since we hang out here, it's pretty much the first thing we think of when that phrase comes up. But, I believe the idea was meant to evoke Ulthane as being a literal "Old" "One", or someone who's really freaking old. Like, pre-christianity old, which is why he has a generally different mythology around him, ie. the hammer, the forge thing, the overgrown terrain and weird rune doors. Oh, and the accent. As for why he's there, well...
- He's definitely some type of Celtic pagan god. Basically, the old religion that was replaced by Christianity. It's a trope that is leaned heavily upon in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow as well. He's Pan, but more badass.
- For the record, in Darksiders verse the term "Old Ones" seems to apply to any race older than Angels and Demons, and thus usually uninvolved in the Forever War between the two. The Horsemen are technically Old Ones as well.
War and Abaddon
- Uh, Uriel...? Straga killed Abaddon, not War. You saw Straga kill him! War had nothing to do with it!
- She thought that War had jumpstarted the apocalypse. She knew that he didn't directly kill Abaddon, but it would have been entirely his fault had she been right.
- So... how and when exactly did War displace his freaking horse? I can understand that Death and Strife were just messy and left their weapons lying around for Vulgrim and Ulthane, respectively, to snatch. But a horse? Wouldn't he try to return home by himself? Also, no one ever comments on a Horseman missing his horse, not even War himself when he sees some demon riding Ruin!
- War spent 100 years outside Earth. Ruin was most likely waiting for him there when the Apocalypse started, and when no one came, it just didn't really care to run away from those others guys: I like to think that he was literally just waiting for War to return and kicking some ass while at it.
- On a tangent, I got the impression that the Mercy you get from Ulthane was a copy he made, rather than Strife's personal peacemaker.
- Ulthane was hammering away at something immediately before giving War Mercy. So it's incredibly likely it's a copy.
- Ok, death will be the protagonist of the sequel. but how will that work? he's said to be nigh invulnerable which would lead to boring invicible hero. Unless he gets stuck with a power nullifier or something and the goal of the game is it to get that thing off again.
- He's going to be a Fragile Speedster. It's unclear if its a retcon or if his power was limited somehow, but that's how he's being played.
- Death shrugged off being impaled by War, but Chaoseater still damaged him. He's tough, but he's never been portrayed as impossible to injure. It's likely that's he's just too badass to show pain at such a minor injury as a sword through his chest.
- Some of the developer interviews that have been released imply that his lack of a block move is more a result of his fighting style, rather than a lack of physical power or durability.
- From speaking to producer personally, Death doesn't block because of his arrogance. He's not willing to show pain or even acknowledge that someone could hit him which is why he doesn't block. He prefers to zip around, using his speed and skill to dominate his foes instead of crassly standing toe to toe with them like equals like some common warrior. He called him the Raphael (Ninja Turtles) of the Horsemen family to put it in perspective. And, this part is conjecture, but it's possible that Death might not be nigh invulnerable, just impossible to permanently kill. In the comic it also looked like there was some magic at play when he let War impale him (the purple mist... tentacle... things) so that may have helped.
- Most of the powers the Horseman posses were granted to them by the Charred Council who, as evidenced in the beginning of the first game, can take them away if they want to. Trying to proof his brothers innocence could be in direct violation of the Councils orders so they may have have stripped Death of most of his powers, invurnerability included, which would also explain why he's starting out on level 1.
- Confirmed. Lord of Bones says that "On this path, you do not serve Balance and you are denied your full power". All 7 Seal had not been broken, so all Horsemen were not at their peak power.
- So why exactly did Abaddon break the 6 seals, and why not the 7th as well?
- Because the 7th seal calls, releases, and empowers the Horsemen, and everyone is scared shitless of them. A large reason why the Endwar was started early was because Abaddon was worried about what would happen if they were allowed to participate. It's not quite clear what their role was supposed to be—probably fighting alongside the humans, or maybe just making sure the rules of the war were adhered to—but Abaddon didn't want them involved.
- Ah, so he wanted to start the apocalypse, just not with the horsemen?
- Exactly. Well, being able to attack the Third Kingdom without humanity being ready was probably also a point - it's better to fight a war against the Angels you know how to fight, then against them AND humans that know how to defend themselves.
- Abaddon didn't want to attack the humans, but acting at a point when they weren't a threat would simplify matters. Abaddon thought that the forces of Heaven would be able to defeat the forces of Hell at that point, but he wasn't sure if they could in the future, or with humans in the mix. Certainly not with the Horseman riding around.
- Okay, so maybe it'll make more sense when I play the game instead of just reading wiki, but Abaddon wanted to start the apocalypse to destroy the forces of hell?
- Abaddon is an angel in this game, so yes. He was the leader of Heaven's armies, destroying the forces of Hell was his job.
- From the comic, he wanted to almost start the apocalypse and kill the demon leadership in The War Room by a surprise attack. I guess that since he was betrayed, the demons were waiting for him and it quickly devolved into a full-blown Endwar.
- Also, following off above, if Abaddon is the Destroyer, then why did one of D's generals—Straga—destroy his boss?
- The Destroyer seems to be a title for the Devil's Dragon. There was another Destroyer before Abaddon, who was the one in charge of Hell's forces for the early parts of the Endwar, including the part where Abaddon was "killed." Some woman (implied to be Lilith, mother of demons) rescued Abaddon and gave him a chance at power in Hell, which he took. Probably by killing the previous Destroyer. In hindsight, that might explain why there were so many demonic factions running around—with the previous Destroyer dead, there were no orders coming down except regarding the Chosen and guarding the Black Tower.
- It's been a while since I played the game so I might be wrong but as far as I remember there was no Destroyer before the Apocalypse. The universe of Darksiders doesn't seem to have a Devil or a God.
- It's never rally explained. The Council technically only states that the Destroyer led Demons during the Apocalypse. Since Abaddon died at the very beginning, it's possible that the Destroyer emerged shortly afterwards and conquered the Demon lords (Samael and Straga included), unifying the Demons under his rule, thus giving the impression that he was behind the Endwar from the start (well, since he's Abaddon, he was, but in a different way).
- It's actually entirely possible that there was a previous Destroyer who led Hell's armies. I've always thought that it was Samael but that, for whatever reason, Lilith decided to power up another more pliable individual. This requires having read the comic of course for it to make any sense though. On the other hand, speaking strictly from what we know about the game, it might be that Straga was the initial leader and getting whupped by War made "the mystery woman" give power to someone else instead.
- Random point to bring up, but there IS a God and Satan in Darksiders. Samael mentions he doesn't like the "company" Satan keeps now with the Destroyer. God and Satan are still in Heaven and Hell while their troops join the Endwar.
- It's likely there was no intention to make Abaddon the Destroyer until after he died.
- So what was Abaddon's gift from the Tree?
- Maybe the plan to start the Endwar early.
- So what exactly did Uriel accomplish by stabbing War with the Armageddon Blade (aside from completing her death oath that had no bearing on the plot anyway)? Would it be any different, if she went straight for the Watcher and the seal?
- She completed her death oath. That was the point. She had to kill him (or be killed by him) sooner or later; may as well do it a few seconds before she activates something that could bring him back to life. Also, it distracted the Watcher.
- She was giving him a cleaner, more merciful death than the Watcher would.
- How did War survive getting stabbed through the chest by Uriel?
- The breaking of the Seventh Seal. When the End Times come and the Horsemen are working in the name of the Balance they are powerful enough to scatter demons in their wake. So when the Seal was broken War likely assumed his full measure of power and was able to shrug off that little pinprick.
- Stated word for word in the sequel that the seals have the power to call the horsemen back, even from oblivion; AKA: nonexistence
- So, Samael said that War seeing his journey to its end would explain to him why he rebelled against Lucifer, and mentioned it having do with his "master's company"... and all War finds out is the Destroyer is Abaddon. That really doesn't explain much, unless Samael was lying just to mess with him, which doesn't fit what we've seen of him.
- Two options. One: When Lucifer appointed an angel as his Destroyer, Samael was pissed and left. Two: War's journey isn't over yet.