Headscratchers / Catherine

  • A minor one but still odd. One of the questions that can alter your alignment is whether briefs or boxers look better on mennote . How exactly does your preference in underwear influence your alignment?
  • Who or what does Atlus have to thank for the game's unforeseen success? It sold pretty well for an Atlus produced game and anybody who hasn't heard of Atlus or Megami Tensei seem to know about it to an extant.
    • Sex Sells
      • But with people who have no interest in anime graphics? I still consider that a feat.
      • Maybe rather than sex, per se, it's more the relationship and romance. I know I bought it because I was interested in how you would control the choice between K and C, and how the relationships would play out.
      • Mature treatments of open ended relationships certainly are rare in videogames. Maybe in this case a fresh idea happened to be a winning formula?
    • A new definition of "unforeseen success?" It did about in the same range as the last two "mainline" Persona games, indicating that while the fanservicey packaging drew a lot of interest, sales probably went to the Atlus base.
  • This troper can't see how anyone can like Catherine (aside from the obvious). All of Vincent and Catherine's supposed hookups happen when the former is so drunk he can't remember anything, and that's assuming that sex happened at all in the first place. So either Catherine's raping Vincent every night, or she's tricking him into thinking he's cheating on Katherine with her. Neither option puts Catherine in the nicest of lights.
  • Why do people keep crying Financial Abuse in reference to Katherine? The most she does in relation to Vincent's finances is suggest that he ought to stop blowing cash on useless crap all the time. Even Vincent will comment on his poor financial situation at certain points. But Katherine doesn't even touch his money at all at any point.
    • If I remember correctly, Katherine says at one point that she'll handle the finances after she and Vincent marry, which is apparently enough for some fans to accuse her of being a financially abusive Control Freak.
      • It doesn't help that this is a Japanese made game with Japan being infamous for such wives. This sparks such fears despite the game being set in the US.
  • The reasoning behind the nightmares and Catherine honestly doesn't make sense. The whole thing just being a scheme to keep the population up, using Catherine to manipulate the male, and the nightmares to keep them on edge, and freaked out. I can kinda understand that. What I find kinda hard to comprehend is why the nightmares kill off the dreamer. Considering that Martha and Lindsay say that about 750'000 die of unknown causes, and that a vast majority is due to the nightmares, wouldn't that reduce the population by a large amount on an immediate scale, countering the countless months (if not years) to have the female get together with someone new, like the other male enough to want to marry, and then wait the 9 months for children? And what if this woman or man is infertile?
    • Gods, in general, never seem capable of thinking up these facts when it comes to humans and their ways or limitations. Possibly a case of Gods Cannot Comprehend Humans?
      • Since Gods have much more time on their hands than us humans, immediate short term planning is fairly pointless. Kill off 750,000 men who won't breed with women, increase the chances of the 400,000 'correct' men getting with women and making babies. Going with a hypothetical average of two kids per couple; that's a net gain of 50,000 humans....That or Izanagi is stepping in; you want to go into Japanese Mythology, since gods are real in this setting. (Izanami kills 1000 people each day, Izanagi has 1500 people born each day)
  • If Catherine is supposed to represent the free-spirited open relationship choice, how come she's so incredibly jealous? Doesn't that undermine the whole argument? "I'll kill you if I see anyone else with you" isn't very chaos-y, in fact, it's pretty controlling. More controlling than Katherine even.
    • Well she does represent Vincent's ultimate, perfect desire of lust and perfect girlfriend - so maybe her being so Yandere is just what he wants and finds hot?
  • When Katherine drops by Vincent's when Catherine is there, Catherine goes into the bathroom and later flushes the toilet. Considering she is an illusion in that world, how would she be able to even interact with the flush? She only has a visual body to the men she seduces so... it shouldn't work.
    • Well, consider the fact that she has been seen able to interact with other objects (such as drinking drinks and slipping on the cup saucer in their first encounter).
  • Vincent is convinced that he slept with Catherine. How come he didn't think it odd that, while she was completely naked, he was still wearing his underwear? Even if we assume it was Right Through His Pants, wouldn't they be, you know, somewhat moved? And this isn't merely a case of his scene-model wearing the underpants, the animated cutscene of waking up next to Catherine has a glimpse of his underpants under the blanket.
  • One of the confessional questions is what you'd do, if your lover was in love with someone else. How come the decision to 'cling what is mine' refers to Chaos and not Law? Wouldn't it make more sense that I'm trying to keep my relationship together be more of a sign for Law? Or is this going the route of 'true love means letting go'?
    • What generally produces the more chaotic result; to fight for a relationship that's doomed to fail, or to cut your losses and move on?
  • It's revealed that the nightmares occur to men who spend a long amount of time in a relationship 'with no commitment'. Turns out that story is bull, but that's not the point. How come longstanding relationships are referred to as having no commitment? It requires some proper commitment to stay in a relationship for such a long time, including Vincent spending five years with Katherine. Not to mention, being in a 'no commitment' relationship doesn't impede the chance of having children to begin with. What's this 'no commitment' bullshit?
    • 'Commitment' is rather subjective in terms of what is considered the right amount of commitment. In Vincent's case, he was committed enough to spend five years with Katerine, but not enough to 'seal the deal', in the eyes of Ishtar/Astaroth/Dumuzid. After all, a married couple is much more likely to procreate than two casual lovers, namely due to social values. A stagnated pair like Vincent and Katherine was rather situational, we could classify them as a borderline case.
  • In hindsight, this game makes no sense if it takes place anywhere except Japan, and considering the names of the characters it clearly isn't meant to. Catherine's plot only works in the context of Japan's population crisis, because in most of the world the idea that demons kill off men who are keeping women from having children for the sake of the population is crazy. It ignores the fact that our planet is ridiculously overpopulated and if anything, there need to be less children being born than there are right now. If the gods really were doing this everywhere in the world, it essentially means they're overbreeding us until our numbers become unsustainable for our resources.
    • However, the True Freedom ending reveals that the city seems to be a space colony (likely on Mars, considering Vincent's comment earlier about "I think someone on Mars didn't quite hear you!"). Population management would be a bit more of an issue in space, depending on how far the colonization process is going. Another point is that this is plan is being spun off by the goddess of fertility, who probably has a vested intrest in keeping the population expanding, along with her other reason to keep it going.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/Catherine