Headscratchers: Borderlands 2
New entries on the bottom. Beware spoilers.
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- So...did Gearbox contract Funimation for the voice acting, or what? Because like 90% of the voices are anime regulars, who generally don't do video games. Sure, Colleen Clinkenbeard was in the first one, but we've also got Luci Christian, Robert McCollum, Christopher Sabat, Jamie Marchi...I think the only ones I didn't hear were people like Micah Solusod and Monica Rial, who are probably busy with A Certain Magical Index. I'm not complaining, just...what?
- Actually, both of them show up as background characters (Monica Rial shows up as the paranoid Santuary Citizen voice). I'd say they probably did.
- Funimation is located in Texas. So is the headquarters of Gearbox. It was probably for the sake of convenience and that Funimation is pretty damn good at voice acting.
- To be more specific, Funimation was founded in Fort Worth, and are now headquartered in Flower Mound, just north of Dallas. Gearbox's offices are located in Plano, not even an hour north of Flower Mound. Also, a lot of the voice actors from Funimation double as directors, producers, writers, sound engineers, and a host of different jobs, so they, by necessity, have to stick around the DFW area. It was really easy for Gearbox to corral the Funi members into helping them with the game's voice acting.
- There aren't all that many voice actors in the industry and not a whole lot of them spend much time in Texas. Flying people in or doing everything remotely isn't generally very practical.
- Speaking of voice acting, in case anyone was wondering why both Luci Christian and Cherami Leigh are both credited as Gaige, and why you hear Luci's voice for all of Gaige's non-Anarchy lines, the explanation is rather simple: Cherami was brought in because they felt that Luci didn't quite have that "Rebellious Teenager" edge in her voice. Cherami dubbed over all of Luci's lines, as well as the Anarchy lines that Luci never got around to. By the time the character was released (which would be as a pre-order bonus when the game launched), Gearbox quickly realized that they just... forgot to switch out Luci's dialogue. It was very simply just a last minute oversight. However, the game had already launched, and Luci's lines were already being heard, so they decided to roll with it and give her credit (Removing her lines at that point would've been a dick move). Cherami thinks that it is rather appropriate that Gaige's voice "changes" the more she goes crazy with power anyway.
- So... if Roland was homeschooled in 2854◊ just how old is he? Game's set in 5257.
- That's either some sort of oversight by the writers, or a hint that the "The series is recursive" theory is true.
- I thought about this for awhile. Then I heard Lilith mention that Jack was advertising to everyone in "The Six Galaxies" to move to Opportunity. I can only assume this means that Pandora is far enough away from Earth it can be 26-something on Earth and 5257 on Pandora at the same time.
- There hasn't been any detail on how FTL travel works in this 'verse, but considering everything else, we can assume it's the standard sci-fi "really fast plane" model. I doubt there's any time dilation involved. Though cold sleep is possible, the simplest solution is that it's a typo. I'm going to pretend it's Roland's typo, rather than Gearbox's.
- That makes sense. Assuming he meant to write "5248" (and made one hell of a typo by screwing up the order that much), and that he was homeschooled until the normal graduating age of 18, then the game would be 9 years after graduation, making him 27.
- Maybe he's dyslexic?
- Roland seems to be in his 30s at least, though. It seems most likely that it is either a slip of the mind from Gearbox, or that the date system is different on his home planet.
- Cryo sleep still seems like the most likely option to me, given that (a) it takes a very long time to travel from one galaxy to another, even at near-light speeds, (b) the robotics in this world are easily complex enough to travel for thousands of years without human help, and (c) there's been no mention of FTL travel so far in the series. Here's hoping we get more explanations about this in the Pre-Sequel this year!
- Well, FTL travel hasn't been explicitly mentioned, but traveling between planets has. That means either FTL travel or cryosleep. Cryosleep has never been hinted at, while the Fast Travel stations could be a short-range version of technology used for an interstellar Portal Network. As is, we'll just have to wait and see.
- Unless Eden-6 is in the same star system as Pandora, then there has to be some kind of faster-than-light technology for Gaige to get to Pandora. Her ECHO logs explicitly mention Hyperion's invasion of Pandora, and she'd have to be using faster-than-light technology to get there in the timeframe involving the war between Hyperion and the Raiders. Plus, unless Handsome Jack had an army pre-positioned to invade Pandora - which frankly nearly impossible considering sending a single satellite was enough to raise eyebrows - then there's no way he could have gone from a code-monkey to CEO and then invaded Pandora in five years without faster-than-light capability.
The New-U stations and New Vault Hunters
- Hyperion makes the New-U stations that allow the player to respawn by taking a genetic sample and digistructing a new body from that. But Handsome Jack owns Hyperion. Why doesn't he just take your genetic sample off the network?
- They're making a profit off of charging you fees for respawning. The New-U stations even state this explicitly. Also, since Angel has access to pretty much anything using Hyperion tech, she may have hacked the New-U stations so that even if Jack tried to stop you from resurrecting, it wouldn't work. In fact, he might actually think that they don't work on you, since he seems to think that just killing you will actually stop you.
- He must notice eventually that they work for you, considering the side-quest he gives you to kill yourself despite knowing you'll resurrect. One way or another, I think the idea that Angel did something to the system that prevents him from removing the new Vault Hunters from it even after her death is the most likely explanation.
- Also, up to a certain point, he didn't think you were capable of affecting his plans, so he was more than content to let you repeatedly die horrible while adding to his coffers. After that certain point, he didn't want anyone else to kill you but him.
- After you kill Angel, Jack lets you respawn because he wants to kill you personally.
- If he does this during the last fight, he would probably rush to resurrect The Warrior and doesn't have time to remove you from the system. If he left to do so, you'd be able to free Lilith. He also thought once the Warrior would awake the Vault Hunters would be insignificant.
- One rather elegant solution: Angel switched Jack and the Vault Hunter's accounts just before she died. She knew Jack would want to kill the vault hunter (permanently) at some point, and delete them off the system. She also wanted to delete Jack, but he obviously would notice. This explains a lot of what follows in the game:
After Angel's death, Jack vows to be the one to kill the vault hunter. And nobody else is allowed.
Jack checks to make sure the vault hunter is actually IN the new-U system by giving you the "Kill Yourself" quest.
Just before the final battle, Jack deletes the Vault Hunter's entry in the system... but due to Angel's trickery, he actually ended up deleting himself. So he dies permanently.
- And why isn't Jack in the system?
- There are a number of possible answers to that one. From (approximately) most likely to least likely:
- Someone at Hyperion quietly deleted him so that when he died, the company would be able to move on without a megamaniacal dictator at the helm. We already know Blake is willing to go against the grain (such as when he "bragged" to TK Baha about the assassins sent to kill him...which coincidentally gave him time to escape), so maybe it was him or someone like him.
- Lilith's super-charged Siren powers kept the respawn from working. Slight asspull, plus she's not necessarily the one who kills him, so that's another strike against it.
- Jack is so rich that the New-U station broke when trying to calculate its cut. Silly in addition to being unlikely.
- It's also possible that Jack respawned, but it isn't showcased in the story because the game already ended.
- It's also a possible (Badly planned out) PR move on Jack's part to seem 'Pure' for the sake of looking like the hero, he keeps his original body and believes that when he dies he dies to the public, all while confident he can hide behind his robot army, holographic duplicates and then eventually The Warrior so he doesn't actually need to respawn, and by the end of the game he's so angry at the vault hunters while on his rant he doesn't realize a well-aimed bullet will end him.
- There is also a point in the game where Jack no longer needs you alive or wants you for himself. And if Angel could manipulate the New-U why do you have to be charged for it?
- It would actually be harder for Angel to cover up a New-U use if it wasn't being charged. With the Vault Hunters, she can just switch around a few names and identification. But she likely can't actually cover up the New-U being used, so she's got to keep the books balanced. In a setting this advanced, and with corporate interests this profit-oriented and unscrupulous, they'll likely notice any imbalance in their books very quickly. Hyperion doesn't care about people, they care about profit. Plus, charging you to respawn would also be a subtle incentive on her part to keep you from screwing up as often.
- Further confusing matters, it's established that Handsome Jack has (possibly multiple) body doubles. We learn this during the quest where you must kill one of them in order to steal its voice modulator, so you can talk your way past a Hyperion checkpoint on your way to the Bunker level.
- So, most likely a)Angel hacked it to lock Jack out, or b)he never put himself in the system because of arrogance, possibly trusting in the body doubles.
- While it may not apply to Jack, many people might opt not to use the New-U stations for religious reasons (not unlike how, in the Ghost in The Shell universe, there are people whose religions proscribe the use of cybernetic replacement bodies). One of the New-U quotes even lampshades another reason why people might not use the stations...
"Hyperion suggests that you do not think about the fact that this is only a digital reconstruction of your original body, which died the first time you respawned. Do NOT think about this!"
- This seems the most likely explanation. Jack knows some stuff about how Hyperion tech works, and would personally does not regard his reconstructed body as anything but a clone. For everyone else, he doesn't care if they're "real" or not, just that they are respawning and paying him for it.
- It's confirmed in deleted files, that, yes, Angel hacked the New-U station...and Jack both knows about it, and will TAUNT you over it.
- The one about nobody in charge at Hyperion wanting Jack back makes sense enough, but consider this: perhaps those who are resurrected via New-U are not legally entitled to the properties they owned before death? How else would you keep undesirables from staying in power for eternity? So even if Jack does come back he won't have access to any of the resources that allowed him to become a genocidal tyrant.
- There are a number of possible answers to that one. From (approximately) most likely to least likely:
Angel and New-U
- Why isn't Angel in the system? I mean Jack had to realize that she is essential to his plan and she was on the verge of death regardless of whether she tasked the Vault Hunter to kill her.
- Same reasoning behind the theory that she hacked the Vault Hunters into the system. She's wired into every Hyperion system on the planet (and quite a few non-Hyperion ones), so it's not a stretch to assume that includes the New-U. And hacking herself out of it would be much easier. She's a Death Seeker, remember.
- Think about it, she was hooked up to an Eridium Injection system for YEARS and when it was finally removed, she died. If a New-U station revived her exactly as she was, it would Digistruct a body that would immediately die of Eridium withdrawal anyway, only to be resurrected again, then die of withdrawal, then die again, etc. etc. So yeah, she probably took herself out.
- Honestly, I think the only explanation to these is that the New-U system is just a gameplay mechanic, and should probably just be regarded as a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation.
- While "it's just a gameplay mechanic" removes a lot of objections, let's not forget that the NPC's in this game are genre savvy, making comments such as, "Remember when you killed me?" If the NPC's are well aware that they can respawn, then it's much easier to understand Shooty's weird fetish in the mission "Shoot This Guy in the Face".
- MST3K Mantra is the only real explanation. New-U Stations are used in missions on multiple occasions to be written off as Gameplay and Story Segregation. Some of these are minor missions, but Armory Assault is a major mission that is treated as canon.
- According to this page the Snarky voice clips were added to make the New-U stations feel like in Universe technology If they hadn't been added it would have been like Aeris' death, i.e. they are just a gameplay mechanic.
- But see, that could go either way. He states that they intentionally added the voice to the stations to make it clear they were in-universe, but it's not really clear if he means "But we shouldn't have done that because it causes Fridge Logic" or "I'm happy we did that, but we forgot a few more lines that would explain the plotline deaths." Here's the full text of his response:
Regarding the New-U thing: that's my fault, but not for the reasons you'd expect. I sincerely believe that if I hadn't added any dialog to the New-U stations (the snarky lines from the Hyperion female voice), then the New-U's wouldn't have felt like an in-world technology — they would have felt like a meta aspect of the game.
When Aeris dies, you spend, like, a second wondering why Cloud doesn't just use a Phoenix Down on her and then you say "screw it" and move on, because nobody in the story acknowledges that Phoenix Downs even exist and you're pretty sure they're just a gameplay mechanic. If I hadn't added dialog to the New-U stations, I think you-know-who's death would have functioned in much the same way.
- The stations have to exist - remember when you have to get a new one to Fast Travel back to Sanctuary? That's literally the only way to get there after that - you have to Fast Travel from a New-U. At the very least, Fast Travel exists. For me, what's on this page neatly wraps everything up except for this: Why does Roland not respawn? There's even a shot of his tombstone during the credits. Could the original Vault Hunters have been removed from the system between games?
- Jack spends a good chunk of his time trying to kill off the original Vault Hunters; it wouldn't be surprising if he had taken them out of the New-U system.
- The Fast Travel stations are entirely separate from the New-U stations.
- Here's a possibility: Hyperion doesn't actually OWN the New-U technology. It already existed on Pandora before Hyperion took over, back in BL 1. When they came to Pandora, they simply piggybacked their own technology on top of the existing New-U stations. Now, at the very beginning of both games, who do you talk to first? Claptrap. Claptrap's real purpose, aside from opening doors, is to register users onto the old New-U network. In destroying all of the claptrap units except one, Hyperion managed to find all the data on the old users from the old network, and transfer their accounts to Hyperion's network. Except for the new vault hunter in BL 2, who gets registered onto the old network by the last remaining claptrap that Jack missed. When he gives you the mission to kill yourself, he's may be laughing into the ECHO device, but in reality he's scratching his head wondering why he can't find your name in Hyperion's user list...
- So you're saying that the Hyperion-built CL4P-TP robot doesn't register you on Hyperion's network, but some other network? Okay...
- Yes, there's a reason Angel wants you to follow a very specific robot. A robot that has intelligence and holds no allegiances to the company that made it. And tried to take over the galaxy and overthrow the company. And Hyperion destroyed the entire product line (or so they thought). What was your point again? Are you trying to imply all hyperion products work perfectly as intended?
- For what it's worth, one of the new lines for the New-U stations in Dragon Keep explicitly says the New-U stations aren't canon. But then again, Dragon Keep is a Game Within a Game, so perhaps the New-U stations saying they aren't canon isn't canon.
- That was just referring to the magical New-U's that use necromancy to bring back the dead. They also occasionally say "I'm so sick of speaking in this stupid voice."
- What about Nisha (aka, the Sheriff of Lynchwood)? She was Jack's girlfriend and there is absolutely no reason why Angel would go out of her way to remove her in particular from the New-U database, yet when she dies it shocks Jack so much he actually stops being a Comedic Sociopath for a moment.
- Nisha must be in the New-U database because she's back if you visit Lynchwood again later in the game.
- It's been stated that the Vault Hunters canonically killed her. She's just back because it's part of the gameplay mechanics-they always respawn so you can farm their asses off forever.
- Judging from the name of the guns (Sportsman, Target Ace, Home Security), Tediore make guns for non-military uses such as hunting, target shooting, or self-defense. If that so, then why their guns have to be reloaded by throwing them, at which point the gun explodes? Wouldn't this this can cause unintentional injuries or even deaths?
- Judging by their advertisements (one of their spokesmen claims not to have thumbs), they're going more for casual users who might not know how to reload a gun. Considering that in the first game, the guns were normal, they probably sell non-exploding versions too. This is just their niche on Pandora.
- The gun's name is not indicative of its purpose. After all, Vladof's guns are named for a glorious anti-capitalist revolution, but that sure as hell isn't going to be happening. Tediore just named them that way to be unique from other competitors.
- According to the Official Guide, Tediore's guns were never meant to explode. Here is the full quote from the guide "Tediore, being the high-profit, low-consumer safety corporation they are, didn't have time to fully perfect the technology for their disposable weaponry, so all Tediore weapons explode when reloaded. The Tediore corporation, ever optimistic, declared this a "feature" rather than a "glaring safety hazard" and saw their stock shoot up 50 percent overnight."
- So what really happened to Handsome Jack's wife? He says that Angel accidentally killed her with her Siren powers, but Jack is a liar and manipulator with severe Moral Dissonance. An audio log alludes to her "disappearance" and objection to using Angel as a Wetware CPU. So did Handsome Jack kill her to seize control of Angel? Did she leave Jack? Or did Angel really kill her after all?
- Jack is actually not that dishonest. When he says something, he almost always actually means exactly that. He may distort the truth, but the only point in the game where I've seen him outright lie is when he told Pierce he would let her go if she told him how she got scarred. So Jack's story is likely legitimate.
- Jack is ridiculously dishonest. Just because his preferred method is manipulation than outright lying doesn't mean he never lies when it could benefit him. (Consider that he spends the first act of the game trying to kill you and/or telling you you should die when his master plan relies on your survival and infiltration of Sanctuary. Or lying to his boss about why he's dispatched a Hyperion satellite to Pandora.)
- Wordof God says Jack honest to god believes he's doing the right thing. He lied to himself about the severity of whatever Angel did to her mother.
- I assumed Jack killed her. She may have been trying to free Angel when he did it, so Jack blames Angel in a "now look what you made me do" kind of way. He's just deluded himself.
- During the Angel fight, she does mention that he likes using guilt.
- I always got the idea that after Angel dies, Handsome Jack sort of drops the bullshit trolling he does and starts taking the PC seriously and isn't going to lie to them, because It's Personal now and he wants all cards on the table, as his manner in dealing with PC changes from trolling to loathing. Therefore, I'd say that when he says that his wife was killed by Angel, it sounds as though he's telling the truth because of what stage he's at that point in the story, although that's just my interpretation of events.
- What's up with Handsome Jack's face? Close examination of Jack's face reveals that his face seems to have been transplanted onto his skull. The skin tone of the face itself has a slightly different, lighter color than the flesh surrounding it. There is also a clear line where the face seems to have been grafted to his skull, and metal clips at the temples and chin that hold it in place. See it here◊. Further, During the "Get To Know Jack" quest in the Arid Nexus, the Player Character is tasked with picking up five ECHO recorder units from across the area. Listening to the voice logs, it becomes apparent that Jack used to be a mid-management toady at Hyperion before blackmailing and/or killing his boss and assuming control. And at one point, Jack's boss mentions that Jack has had extensive plastic surgery. The boss also refers to Jack as wearing "a mask." Further, upon defeating the final boss and winning the first play-through, Jack's disembodied face shows up as a pickup amid the massive loot drop, and if acquired by the PC, it's shown to be a "skin" you can use for yourself at the head-swap kiosk. So, what gives? What's the story, there?
- It's...a fake face. It's exactly what all of the aforementioned clues indicate. The face is fake. I'm not sure what else needs to be said there.
- Well, sure. I guess what I'm wondering is WHY? I mean, anyone who's blown the helmet off of a Goliath knows that Pandorans are no strangers to disfiguring injuries. So thereby hangs a tale. Jack's face is either a transplant, or a mask...So what happened to the original version? Obviously he's narcissistic as hell, otherwise he wouldn't call himself "Handsome" Jack. And we know he had some sort of plastic surgery. But did he just swap in a better one? Was he injured somehow? It just seems like (especially given all of the over-arching story elements between the first game and this one) there's gotta be some sort of narrative significance to that facet (sorry!) of his character.
- There's an image of Handsome Jack without his mask◊. Wild Mass Guessing here, but the fact that the scar matches the symbol that the Psychos wear on their masks suggests that Jack was disfigured and branded by a group of bandits, explaining his irrational hatred for the inhabitants of Pandora.
- Actually, it's given to him if you let Lilith kill him in the endgame. That head model is from his corpse. You can literally watch it be burned onto him. It's more of a general Pandora/Vault symbol anyway.
- That explanation has been circulating around, despite having a massive hole: if it's that recent, then why is he wearing a mask in the first place.
- Jack's wearing a mask. I don't really see the mystery here. He wears it because his real face is horribly scarred and ugly. It's also why he calls himself Handsome Jack. He doesn't want to be ugly.
- Given his narcissism, and how he took control of Hyperion, it's entirely possible that the mask is the face of the previous head of Hyperion, sort of a "I killed/took over from this guy and now I'm wearing his face as a trophy" sort of morbid thing.
- Just a bit of Fridge Horror: Handsome Jack's body doubles wear the same mask. That means whoever the face originally came from had their face removed at least twice.
- Just to clear this up for once and for all-in the Pre-Sequel, we get to see an Echo portrait of Harold Tassiter, then the CEO of Hyperion, and he looks nothing like Jack. Also, Jack had the Vault Key punched into his face by Lilith, so he wears a mask. Said mask looks like his old face-unscarred, good looking and with heterochromic eyes (slightly larger though.)
Why does Jack need the PCs?
- Considering that Jack's "Master plan" involves getting a specific power core into Sanctuary's shield... Why does Jack need you at all? The Raiders are constantly hitting his mines and installation (As Jack cites this as his reason for the entire scheme, so he can charge the key in peace). Why not leave the Core there to be found? The raiders are constantly looking for more power core. Why look for super badass Vault Hunters to manipulate and do the work for you? Why have them kill his Dragon?
- I can think of two reasons. First, Jack's plan would have fallen apart if anyone had actually examined the fake core before shoving it into Sanctuary's power grid. By using the Vault Hunters as his cat's paw and having them "steal" it from his Dragon, he removes any source of doubt from the equation. It's a far more reliable plan than simply leaving a shiny new Sanctuary-compatible, Hyperion-manufactured Power Core lying around somewhere. As for why he needs badass Vault Hunters, just look at how quickly everyone trusts them as soon as they hear the name "Vault Hunter"! The second reason is this: Jack is an egomaniac who loves proving how much smarter he is than everyone, and in the most horrible way possible. An overly-complicated plan where he manipulates a bunch of primal saps into dancing on his strings is far more satisfying to him.
- The Raiders are automatically suspicious of anything with the words "Hyperion" on the side. Just look at what happens when you plug a Gun Loader's AI core into anything capable of operating on its own. They even mention that they're a bit wary of the very core you've recovered. The only reason you even attempt to plug that thing in is threefold: Jack's most powerful Loader model was carrying it, Angel vouched for it, and Sanctuary's shield was getting close to collapsing. Also, it doesn't specifically matter if it's you that recovers the device. As long as someone who trusts Angel recovers it, then the mission is successful. And also keep in mind that Jack's plan doesn't really ride on you getting the device into Sanctuary at all; he's already got Roland at that point in the story, and even if Roland escapes and Sanctuary remains intact, Jack is winning because the Raiders can't do anything more than hide behind their shield. Sneaking the core into Sanctuary just removes an inconvenience for Jack. Even Wilhelm being destroyed is little more than an inconvenience; it's not like Jack can't just order his factories to make a replacement for a pittance.
- Also, the other Vault Hunters have fought Wilhelm before, and would realize that something was up from the fact that he was much weaker than he should have been. You haven't fought him before, and would be less likely to notice that something was up, especially since Angel spends most of the first part of the game telling you how much better you are than the original Vault Hunters.
- Also, the fact that the plan is exceedingly complicated would be a selling point for Jack. He treats the entire thing like a game (his reaction to Lilith teleporting Sanctuary away is vague surprise and a bit of disappointment), and even calls you up afterward and laughs about it, saying that tricking the current group of Vault Hunters was "way funnier" than the last time, as though he was playing a prank instead of annihilating an entire city from orbit. He did the entire thing not only to remove a thorn from his side, but because the whole plan was needlessly complex, he got to screw with the Vault Hunters, and the whole thing was hilarious.
- this is kind of on a different subject but I think it fits this folder's content. So Jack has A siren for a daughter and is using her to charge the vault key. Now if he just bided his time and waited for the vault key to finish charging and for his men to get the warrior. Then he simply has to just use the warrior to kill everyone. Simple as that. So then, why is he randomly hiring and killing vault hunters claiming them to be bandits when he brought them here? What was the point of even tricking the new vault hunters into taking out Sanctuary's shield? Hell, why did he do anything other than wait? Seriously, the only reason Jack lost is because he hired, attempted to kill, and kept pissing off the new vault hunters. If he never hired them they would never have joined the resistance whom would ineffectively pound away at Hyperion until they all died.
- Jack isn't hiring Vault Hunters at that point in the story. Vault Hunters are showing up to look for the Vault; Jack only hired Vault Hunters to help him find the Warrior, and once he located the Vault he no longer needed them and started killing anyone who showed up. "Hiring" Vault Hunters is just a front to channel them into an area where he can kill them more easily.
- There's an even more simple explanation given in the game: Roland and the Crimson Raiders were disrupting his Eridum mining operations. He couldn't just "bide his time" like you suggest, because his Eridum stocks would have run dry. Jack needed a way to remove the Crimson Raiders from play permanently, and that's why he sets his plan into motion.
- When you reach The Fridge, Angel tells you that "Jack is patient, but he's not that patient."
Sanctuary Safe From Jack In The Highlands?
- How is Sanctuary flying somehow making it safe from being shot down by Hyperion. Why, after it appears in the Highlands, doesn't Jack just resume bombing it? The Raiders aren't rich in Eridium, they can only feed Lilith so much. And it's not like he doesn't know where Sanctuary moved to. It's visible from not one but 2 Hyperion bases.
- When you first return to Sanctuary, if you sit around Roland and Lilith for a minute, Roland will mention they don't have a shield anymore. Lilith gets on the ECHO and tells Hyperion she can teleport the city whenever she wants, so if they try shooting again, they're just going to waste a few billion dollars. A bluff, but apparently an effective one.
- Which brings up the question: Why didn't Jack bombard Sanctuary AFTER he captures Lilith?
- Because it might kill the new Vault Hunters, and he wanted to do that personally. Plus, he was trying to wake up an alien kaiju, so he figured the city itself wouldn't be a problem for too much longer.
- Besides, by that point, Jack's winning to an extreme degree. Roland's dead. Lillith is his prisoner. The Crimson Raiders are effectively paralyzed. He's hours from opening the Vault and getting the Warrior under his command. He doesn't need to kill Sanctuary anymore.
- But why not do it anyway and get rid of the slight chance they could do something to stop him?
- Because he doesn't need to. His victory is all but assured, and he's megalomanical enough to assume that his victory is totally assured.
- Jack is Genre Savvy enough to know that if he attacked Sanctuary with artillery, No One Could Survive That.
- Sanctuary's new position is fairly close to some major Hyperion assets, including the Wildlife Exploitation Preserve and a major moonshot receiving facility. Pre-kidnap, Jack probably wouldn't have wanted to risk missed shots or fallout wrecking his assets, especially the WEP. Post-kidnap, he was absolutely pissed off enough at the Vault Hunters, old and new, that he wanted to be there and watch them die with his own eyes, preferably as slowly as possible. Blowing them to pieces would have ruined his satisfaction.
- There's also the fact that Sanctuary itself isn't really that much of a problem for Jack, it's the fact that Roland set up his base of operations there that makes it a problem. Once Roland is dead, the Crimson Raiders can't really do much, and as a result Sanctuary isn't much of a threat. The only things that threaten him at that point are Brick, Mordecai, and the PC. Of those, he wants to kill the PC himself, Brick is more of a threat due to his control over the Slabs (who aren't in Sanctuary anyway), and Mordecai is more of a loner. The other thing is that neither Brick nor Mordecai are bound to the city like Roland was; they do stay there, but Jack doesn't know that. As far as he knows, they're still running around Thousand Cuts or Tundra Express, meaning that if he attacks Sanctuary, all he's doing is risking killing the PC, who he explicitly doesn't want to kill.
- In spite of everything above, it may simply be a matter of shot delay. Considering that the orbital bombardment is artillery being shot all the way from Pandora's moon, Sanctuary went from being a stationary, easy target, to a mobile, not-so-easy target. If it takes, say, 4 minutes for a shot fired to reach the surface, all Sanctuary has to do is change direction every 3 minutes.
Zed and Mercy's medical licenses
- There's some stuff bothering me about both. For Dr. Zed, we know that he lacks a medical license, yet is perfectly capable of healing people. Doc Mercy, on the other hand, is more interested in causing wounds and he still got his medical license. But then, once you reached Fyrestone's ruins, you learn that Zed was actually born in Fyrestone. So, two questions for one folder:
- 1. Did Zed ever had a medical license to begin with?
- We know he had a license. He mentions very specifically in the first game when you meet him that he lost it. His vending machines also occasionally mutter that he doesn't have a med-school degree. So it's possible he never had the degree, but forged one in order to get the license. When the authorities found out, the license was revoked.
- A medical degree is not compulsory for getting a medical license. The fact Dr. Zed is capable of healing anyone is sufficient proof that he might have been able to pass a licensing exam. His experiments are more likely the reason for losing the license.
- 2. Is it possible that Doc Mercy killed any authority capable of revoking his license?
- Or maybe other people killed them; there are a lot of bandits on Pandora. Or maybe when he's actually practicing medicine, he follows the ethical rules of the profession. Or maybe none of the authorities care enough to revoke his license. He's only practicing on bandits anyway, after all.
- Way I see it, Doc Mercy got the license so he knows what parts to hit people in to hurt them more.
- 1. Did Zed ever had a medical license to begin with?
The Eridians and the Warrior
- Why weren't there any Eridians guarding the passage to the Warrior like there were for the Destroyer?
- Those weren't Eridians in the first game, those were guard robots made by the Eridians. And the Destroyer was a wild beast the Eridians sealed away due to it being extremely dangerous. The Warrior was a bio-weapon made by the Eridians, they just died off before they could use it.
- And Hyperion had already been there a while by the time you arrive on the scene. Maybe the guardians were there, but the loaders eliminated them all.
- You can see how Hyperion just drilled through the Eridian ruins, especially at the end of Hero's Pass. There is even an area of Hero's Pass called "Guardian Slag Heap".
The Old Vault Hunters Are Getting Lazy
- I found it odd how Brick and Mordecai had the new Vault Hunters run around and infiltrate Hero's Pass through the front gate while Brick and Mordecai presumably used Brick's bandit armada to get there. How could they even make it into Hero's Pass without the gate being down and if they could get behind there, why didn't they bother taking the new Vault Hunters with them.
- They didn't use a "bandit armada." Brick hijacked a Hyperion drop barge to pick up Mordecai with while the Vault Hunters went in on foot because they were closer. The drop barge was used to get Brick and Mordecai there quickly enough to be relevant to the fight. They didn't use it to lift the Vault Hunters because they were much closer, and would already be inside the perimeter by the time Brick and Mordecai arrived.
What happened to S&S Munitions?
- In the last game, S&S Munitions were the guys who made huge-magazine guns. They're gone. We have the bandit brand to replace them, but did I miss something?
- Not really. Gearbox never went into detail about what happened to S&S, though I imagine it was because they were really pushing the unique aesthetics for each company, and likely dropped them for being too "bland" and not really having a distinct characterization. Storywise, though, we're in the dark.
- Could be that while they're still functioning elsewhere in the universe, they've been beat out by the local Bandit-made weapons.
- This is entirely possible. S&S sells to the Pandoran market by marketing their weaponry as having high magazine capacity. Then along come the bandits, whose own weapons can be produced more cheaply and fill in the same niche. S&S stops selling altogether when their market share gets too low and no one buys their weapons and moves their shipments off-world.
- S&S looked to be a reseller, buying guns made by other companies, tweaking them a bit, giving them huge magazines, repainting them, and reselling them as their own brand. With the bandits making cheap guns that already fit S&S's niche, their operations were no longer profitable on Pandora (since they don't make their own guns) so they left or went out of business.
Where's the Old Vault Hunter's money?
- In Borderlands, by the time one reached level 50 or higher, one couldn't tell how much money they owned. This was due to the money counter displaying up to $9,999,999,999 and actually having more than that. So the Old Vault Hunter's were somewhere around "More money than God" at this point. Borderlands 2, the original gang is somehow dirt poor. Anyone got a logical conclusion for this?
- Maybe Hyperion cased their assets? Or perhaps they lost it all from New-U respawns while they were fighting Wilhelm....
- They're not dirt poor. They own a city and are apparently quite well-armed. Problem is, however, they've been fighting a war for five years, and wars are damned expensive. The war against Hyperion could easily have drained their assets.
- It's possible to encounter a respawn glitch out and lose most of your money. You went from many, many, many times the money counter cap, to effectively nothing. Maybe Hyperion pulled the same thing on the Old Vault Hunters? What're they going to do, cancel their subscription? Actually, that explains a few things about Roland...
How Dahl weapons work
- So, how does Dahl's selective-fire mechanic work. How is the gun supposed to distinguish between the user firing from the hip and aiming down the sights?
- Ever noticed how Dahl weapons tend to fire around three rounds at once while zoomed? It's pretty much one function of the brand. Can be pretty nice for pistols, but as efficient as sniper rifles may be, you may as well no-scope when only planning to use one shot at a time with this brand. Or is there something else you're wondering about?
- I think the person was asking how exactly does the weapon itself distinguish between looking down the sights and hip-fire in-universe.
- Easily. Put a sensor in the stock that detects pressure on the stock when it is put to the shoulder to aim down the sights. Bam. Done.
- It could be simpler. Dahl weapons could have a small switch near the trigger, with three settings: Safe and Auto (shared with all guns that are neither Jakobs or Bandit, for different reasons between the two), but for Dahl specifically there's "Burst". The character just simply clicks the gun into "Burst" when they go to aim, and clicks it back into "Auto" or "Semi" when they stop doing so.
- But if that were the case, you'd be able to turn burst on when firing from the hip, or turn it off while aiming. The sensor option explains why non-burst fire while aiming is impossible.
- When you fire from the hip, you can't tell where you're aiming until the bullets start firing. Needless to say, this makes burst-fire very ineffective. In short, it's all a question of "Do I want to be accurate, or should I spray-and-pray?"
Jack's use of the Warrior
- If, somehow the vault hunters and the rebels really get defeated by hyperion and the warrior, do they really have the power take over pandora? Consider the raid bosses and DLC final bosses (Terramorpheus, Badassaurus, Levithan...) whom are even more deadly than the warrior?
- I believe you're taking gameplay power a bit too literally here.
- Not only would the raid bosses (Crawmerax, if he's still alive, and Terramorphous especially) be a big problem for the Warrior, but what about Buzzards? The Warrior has no real anti-air capability and would have a hard time hitting Buzzards with its thrown rocks. Since bandits have hundreds of them compared to the one Warrior, they could easily overwhelm the guy and kill him.
- The Warrior does have that energy beam it can fire from its mouth. And besides, Buzzards are ramshackle enough that they can be brought down by small arms fire. Just have a few Hyperion troops or airborne Loaders accompany the Warrior to shoot down airborne threats.
- It could also be assumed that the Warrior probably suffered from some degree of "summoning sickness" after being dormant for so long. Maybe the only reason that beam attack just slags and damages you instead of leaving you as a greasy smear on the rocks is because the Warrior is still sleepy.
- According to the PreSequel, Jack was also driven insane by both getting the Vault's knowledge uploaded into his brain and getting his face scarred by Lilith, which explains his fixation on activating the Warrior.
Hunting monsters in Hammerlock's DLC
- Why doesn't Sir Hammerlock help you in hunting down the beasts, you can see that he's pretty good with his Hyperion golden sniper rifle, but afterwards he just spends all his time in the lodge.
- He's an invincible quest-giving NPC. It would be too easy to exploit him.
- Being dismembered by Old Slappy probably knocked the taste for monster-hunting out of his mouth. That's why he sends the players to do his research (and revenge killing) for him.
- I just presumed he was off doing his own hunting on the side, but doesn't want to slow the Vault Hunters down when they go after the big prey. I have an amusing image of his sticking his sniper rifle out of the window while seated comfortably in a big chair with a pile of books.
- He states in the main game that since he relies on prosthetic limbs now, he's not really in peak physical shape anymore and wouldn't be able to take on the threats the Vault Hunters can.
- So we have this miraculous Matter Replicator, which seemingly can create an infinite amount of copies from a single template. This is evidenced in missions where you have to get parts for a single vehicle which may then be created infinitely by the Catch-A-Ride network. This technology is precise enough to reconstruct living bodies and ubiquitious enough to let Tediore guns replicate THEMSELVES. Why exactly is Pandora still a Scavenger World? As a matter of fact, why does any sort of capitalism exist at all in the universe?
- It's made pretty clear that they're not as good as the real thing (one of the New-U quotes speaks about the fact that a person's new body is a digistruct as if it's Fridge Horror, Tediore are less effective/cheaper than similar guns, etc). Also, it appears most of the scavenging is based around designing things to scan into the digistructs (as happens to vehicles a few times in both games). I think the same New-U quote I mentioned says that they're some sort of Hard Light construct, which would be temporary by definition.
- Fridge Brilliance: This is a terrific way to explain Copy And Paste Environments, such as why do you keep running into replicas of the same outhouse all over the planet.
- Another possibility is that DS "wear out" (this would explain why stuff you store is as good as new, but Scooter has to keep building/maintaining cars and gets annoyed when they're blown up) after so many copies or something.
- The technology clearly has both inherent limitations (It's unable to recreate Eridium, otherwise no one would bother digging it up) and has some kind of arbitrary enforced limit (Tediore guns can recreate themselves endlessly but are dependant on a finite supply of ammo). The latter is in dire need of a Lampshade Hanging or a Hand Wave: maybe matter replication technology is protected by DRM as the attempt of corporations to create artificial scarcity so they can sell goods?
- Another possibility is that they can't produce explosives/combustibles/anything that generates energy from nothing (or maybe they can, but it's not economical, hence why ammo can still be stored in a storage deck). This would explain why ammo can't be produced except by higher level weapons and class mods, or by absorbing the energy of several bullets with the right sheild (they can make the guns, digistruct whatever features a grenade mod provides onto a protean grenade, but still need a supply of ammo/"blank" grenades to provide the energy and sometimes extra ammo to provide the energy for extra effects) and why Scooter freaked out about the petrol eating rakks in the TORGUE DLC.
- And yet the Catapult Bandit Technical vehicle can digistruct infinite amounts of explosive barrels.
- Simple; Vehicles have larger, more powerful digistruct devices than the man-portable ones the vault hunters carry around, hence they can regenerate the vehicle's ammo (or perhaps digistruct technology is used in the fuel tank of vehicles, somehow storing the fuel, and the chemical energy required for the explosives is drawn from that supply; hence why they never run out of either).
- It makes a lot more sense if you assume that most Digistruction is just "hyperstorage." Most cases of digistruction (New-U stations and Tediore guns notwithstanding) don't actually create something new. Say a Digistruct unit just allows it to convert matter to energy and then back again later, with some odd applications popping up now and again. There may be a replication technology, but it's probably very rough; the "upgraded" Digistruct units the new Vault Hunters carry might be upgraded with a unit to allow it to function as a Matter Replicator for simple shapes, thus meaning that a Tediore gun is really just a batch of replicator code. As for the New-U stations, there's an element of Gameplay and Story Segregation here, but it's possible to construct a rough explanation if you assume that each New-U packs a storage unit containing all of the carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, etc. that a human body is composed of, then uses the on-file genetic code of the customer to arrange it. (The New-U stations do have your genetic code registered; it's literally the first thing you do in BL1).
- Digistruction modules probably work by turning matter into energy and vise versa, and rearranging stored energy/matter into new shapes with blueprints. When you fast travel your body is broken down into energy by a digistruction module and broadcast through the air to the receiving fast-travel station where it is turned back into matter and rearranged back into a functional body. The Renew-U stations remotely deconstruct your dead body and rebuild a new one from the same component atoms. (This is probably why the fast-travel stations and renew-U stations were the same machines in the first Borderlands, they work on the exact same principles.) When you scan a bandit technical into Scooter's catch-a-ride system that gives him the blueprints for a bandit technical, but the raw materials used to construct new ones comes from scrap metal in Ellie's junkyard and Scooter's garage which is remotely beamed to whichever catch-a-ride location you are using. Vending machines work the same way, Marcus beams the raw materials to the vending machine from his personal warehouse and the vending machine builds the gun using those raw materials and the blueprint. Same deal with Tediore guns, when the gun explodes your personal digistruction module that stores all your guns and ammo remotely deconstructs the exploded bits of the gun and rebuilds literally the same gun in your hands (the ammo that was expended to fuel the explosion is lost however). This is why you still have to pay for things from vending machines and why Eridium can't be replicated and why Pandora is still a scavenger world, digistruction may be a wonderful technology that can build and duplicate virtually anything but you still need to find the raw materials first. And raw materials can be in short supply on Pandora.
Recognized on sight
- How does everyone on Pandora know you're a Vault Hunter just by looking at you? Is there some kind of nametag thing going on?
- Hyperion's wanted posters, coupled with pictures of the Vault Hunters being circulated - not to mention showing up to be a Vault Hunter seems to be a pretty big deal. This isn't some medieval society where everything is word of mouth and word takes months to get around. Everyone's got an ECHO device and people talk and send pictures. The Raiders already know who the Vault Hunters are even before they reach the shoreline outside of Sanctuary.
- The Vault Hunters are more or Less Famed In-Story even before meeting Handsome Jack. Plus they do visually stand apart from bandits and regular civilians.
- They do tend to carry more than one weapon around with them...
Taking items from Tiny Tina's Assault into the real world
- How exactly does that work? The whole thing takes place in her imagination, so it doesn't really make sense that you're able to take the very imaginary weapons you find there and use them to blow up Pandora's very not imaginary bandits, loaders, etc. I'm not complaining, of course, but I am a little confused.
- Because its Borderlands. It doesn't really have to make sense.
- Most of the story is told by Marcus; Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep is a role-play done by Tiny Tina, and Marcus decides to use some things that she came up with in his main story.
- In the case of the "Sword Gun" Mister Torgue is probably insane enough to tell his company to "MAKE A GUN THAT SHOOTS SWORDS AND GIVE IT TO THE ULTIMATE BADASS BECAUSE THAT'S AWESOME"
- Or it could have been the Vault Hunters already had those weapons at that point in the timeline and Tina is just making up a story about how they got them. Considering she already bases all of the campaign characters off existing people she knows, this isn't much of a stretch.
- Both Tina and Torgue are frankly people who have the means and reason to make guns that shoot swords that explode.
- Chronologically, it seems that Dragon Keep is supposed to take place after the main game, Pirate's Booty, Campaign of Carnage, and Big Game Hunt, so the player should have completed everything else before entering the fantasy world. This is complicated a bit with the Headhunter packs, but I suppose there's enough time between the Bunkers & Badasses game and Halloween for the Vault Hunters to say "Hey, Torque, remember that game we played? Can you make me a gun like I had in there?" How the Vault Hunters managed to learn the game's spells in real life is a better question, unless of course Tina's Bunkers & Badasses game came with an actual spellbook, which somehow seems somewhat plausible in the Borderlands universe.
- Maybe the Vault Hunters use their imaginations the same way Brick did in +5 to Punching.
Sanctuary's Fast Travel Station
- If Hyperion has a Fast Travel + New-U Station (let's call it a Fast U) inside Sanctuary, why doesn't Jack with his legions of robots simply teleport into Sanctuary and kill everyone there? If the PC can enter and exit the place whenever they like, why can't Jack? He owns the network.
- Sanctuary has its own Fast Travel codes that lock Hyperion out. That's actually the entire reason why Hyperion captures Tiny Tina and Brick in the +5 to Punching video.
- During the mission "The Man Who Would Be Jack", you get a voice modulator that, according to Angel, alters your voice and transmits a bio-signature into nearby machines. If that's true, then why are all the Loaders still trying to kill you? As far as they're able to tell, you are Handsome Jack; right now, they're shooting at their boss. It makes sense that the foot soldiers would be able to tell the difference, but not the robots. Hell, if you're fighting said soldiers and the Loaders drop in, they should start fighting for you, seeing as how Jack would have a much higher priority than some random grunts.
- Talking like Jack isn't going to fool their visual sensors.
- Angel clearly states that the modulator "echoes [Jack's] bio-signature to every machine in the immediate area". Also, keep in mind that this thing is being carried by Jack's body double, which means Loaders don't rely on visual confirmation.
- Yeah, but Jack's body double looks AND sounds like Jack. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination that hard for Hyperion to make all their employees wear a signal that indicates them as an employee of that company and an ally to their own robot forces. Just because it echos his bio signature doesn't mean you look like him. The robots could just be all like "Handsome Jack detected in the area. Hyperion signal not found. Visual confirmation: NOT JACK."
- Yeah, remember, Loaders have eyes. They can visually see that said Siren/gun-toting dwarf/heavily-armed commando/walking Metal Gear reference/teenage mechanic+deathbot/massive walking slab of meat doesn't look anything like Jack. Even if they can't, the Hyperion soldiers running around can, and can issue alerts as to the actual threat. And if for some retarded reason they can't, then Handsome Jack himself is watching you attack the mountain and can issue orders to his Loaders. Hell, the bio-signature doesn't even fool the death wall. The only thing that the bio-signature works on is the biometric scanner itself.
- One more thing: Most players don't use Hyperion weapons often, (with shotguns being the exception), and Jack has arm cannons that only he can use, and can punch you in the final fight. So if the loaders and Engineers and soldiers see Handsome Jack running around holding a Torgue Assault Rifle while slashing up people with a blue sword and throwing incendiary Tediore grenades around, that's certainly not their boss. Oh, and remember that your boss is shooting at you. Jack likes to belittle and verbally abuse employees when he can, but he doesn't attack Hyperion-controlled areas for fun.
3rd Brigade Memorial Dam
- I know it probably has to do with the fact that the game's geography is shrunk compared to what it should be if it tried hard enough but still ; the dam makes absolutely no sense. For starters, it has no reservoir. Even worse, it couldn't possibly have any since it dwarfs all surrounding geology. Second, its interior is completely off the wall, for one simple reason that we can see daylight coming in from the top third room, which makes no sodding sense. Now, we know that we are not at the the level of the entry because the end of the level shows destroyed walls which indicate it as just under the top, but the whole of the top is made of concrete and blacktop, with no indication of any place where this window could go. And the turbines still run, several rooms are is still flooded and the dam still dispenses water, which I must assume is summoned from the aether.
- The dam actually looks like it was built before Pandora underwent the massive climate change that occurred when the Vault was opened. The facilities inside the Fridge are connected to the dam itself, and those were frozen over somehow when the Vault opened. We know that there were several abrupt and unexpected shifts in water resources between when Dahl controlled Pandora and when Atlas kicked them off the planet (the Old Dahlwell Oasis in the Dust, for example) and the entirety of Captain Scarlett's DLC takes place in an area that dried up so quickly that entire freighters were left jammed up against mountains. When the Dam was built there probably was a reservoir present, but said reservoir vanished during the climate change.
- Then why is it still dispensing water, and moreover, why has Hyperion built a power plant below it ?
- There's still water flowing underground. Hell, there's steam-based power stations within sight of the dam itself. Presumably, there's still water flowing through the dam, just not a lot and what's in the dam itself is mostly just leaking from poorly-maintained plumbing.
- The bandits, as stupid as they are, probably found some way to make it work-remember, nearly everyone on Pandora seems to be experienced with technology somehow. Hyperion built a power plant below it because Jack told them to and he's insane.
- Also, it's a memorial dam. Like a monument.
- If he managed to already go through digistruction after dying many times in the 1st Borderlands, why couldn't he respawn again after Jack shot him dead?
- Its questionable as to whether the New-U stations are actually canon. See the rather extensive discussion on it further up the page.
- If New-U stations are canon, the most logical way to explain Roland suffering from a Final Death is because Handsome Jack made sure that the leader of La Résistance would be disconnected from the network (New-U is a Hyperion service, after all).