Dethroning Moment / Dragon Ball Z

Nappa: Vegeta, what does the scouter say about this page's suckiness level?
Nappa: WHAT 9000?! THERE'S NO WAY IT COULD BE RIGHT, CAN IIIIIT?!
—Typical reaction to these moments.

With this series being a long runner, this was only to be expected before fans wish that these moments would be erased by Zeno.

Keep in mind:
  • Sign your entries
  • One moment per troper, if multiple entries are signed to the same troper the more recent one will be cut.
  • Moments only, no "just everything he said, " "The entire show, " or "This entire season, " entries.
  • No contesting entries. This is subjective, the entry is their opinion.
  • No natter. As above, anything contesting an entry will be cut, and anything that's just contributing more can be made its own entry.
  • Explain why it's a Dethroning Moment Of Suck.
  • No Real Life examples, including Executive Meddling. That is just asking for trouble.
  • No ALLCAPS, no bold, and no italics unless it's the title of a work. We are not yelling the DMoSs out loud.

    open/close all folders 

    Z Era 

Saiyan Saga

  • LLSmoothJ: Chi-Chi's treatment of Goku after the Saiyan Arc. Or more specifically, her lack of sympathy or even care over the fact that Goku pretty much had every bone in his body broken! Worse, when she's called out on this, she justifies this by saying that it's his fault that Gohan (who compared to his father barely had any injuries mind you) was put into danger. Never mind that it was Piccolo who put him in that position in the first place! Worse, she even acknowledged that Piccolo kidnapped him in an earlier episode (Unless she blames Goku for that as well). Maybe Goku should've married Bulma instead. After all, for all of her many faults she at least showed more concern for him than his so-called wife.

Android/Cell Saga

  • Benthelame: The Dethroning Moment for DBZ in my opinion was Vegeta's Going Super Saiyan. I have no trouble with the fact that he's one but the excuse for how and why he became one still gets on my nerves. According to the English Dub, a super Saiyan is Pure of Heart and awakened by fury," Vegeta emerges as one because his heart is pure evil to the core... what?? That was all it took?? The Saiyans are a race of ruthless warriors that send their toddlers to destroy entire planets and kill their inhabitants as protocol. That sounds like pure evil to me and yet Vegeta is the only one who achieved this transformation in all the years before Frieza destroyed the planet? There are only a few conclusions that can be drawn from this. Either a race that prides itself on being strong, wiping out other inhabitants of the universe and rubbing salt in the wound by sending super powered toddlers to do so doesn't qualify as evil enough to warrant this power up or the writers just really wanted to make Vegeta a Super Saiyan. I can't complain too much, after all the possibility of Super Saiyans being evil gave us Broly but the reasoning still doesn't make any sense.
  • Darkton: My moment I'd declare the worst part of the series has changed quite a bit, but it's still from the Cell Arc. When Trunks comes in and delivers his message about a threat three years ahead, that gives the Z-Warriors three years to prepare. Or, as Bulma helpfully points out, three years to find the Dragon Balls, wish for Dr. Gero's location, and stop him. And they... don't. In fact, they just decide they want to endanger helpless lives and possibly themselves just so they can fight the guys who kill them. The only possible reason they do this is because otherwise the story would be too short, but even then, Gero could've simply retreated when he saw them coming, or otherwise eluded them, and thus make their wish void and unusable a second time. It's just unbelievable that the same heroes who pulled out all the stops against Piccolo, the Saiyans, and Freeza; hell, the same heroes who go out of their way to prevent any problems later in the arc from starting, would just do nothing for the battle that supposedly kills them. It doesn't even do much good since barely any of the characters are useful in the arc, so that accomplished absolutely nothing. It's just straight up nonsensical, and pointlessly stupid as well. Yikes...
  • Blazar: In the finale of the Cell Saga, Goku threw Gohan into a fight to the death with Perfect Cell with absolutely no warning or time to prepare (he had several days in which he could have told the others of his plans). Not only did this supposedly perfect hero and Friend to All Living Things put the fate of the world on the shoulders of his eleven-year-old, he gave Cell a senzu bean first, then proceeded to just sit back and watch as Cell brutally beat Gohan to near-death, not lifting a finger to help him until Piccolo finally called him out on it, even going so far as to actively stop Piccolo from helping him, this while Gohan was screaming in agony due to being slowly crushed to death by Cell. Yeah, Goku was a real wonderful father - and people wonder why some of us think Piccolo was a better father to Gohan than Goku ever was.
  • RAZ: The ending of the Cell saga. After transforming into Super Saiyan 2 form, Gohan decides to be a stupid, selfish idiot, ignore everyone with common sense, and drag things with Cell out, which ultimately winds up endangering all of Earth when Cell nearly explodes and as a result winds up getting Goku killed from his dumbassery. Gee, is it any wonder why readers weren't all that apt about having him play the role of The Hero after that? And aside from that, Cell officially elevates himself to Villain Sue status with the way he comes back even stronger for one last match (magically in his Perfect form no less), via the Namekian regenerative cells from Piccolo that he has in him—- an ability that, I might add, has been repeatedly stated in the past to drain one's energy when it's used, which if anything would have made him weaker by that point! But nope, the usual rules are ignored in his favor so he can curbstorm everyone and even successfully wound Gohan just to try to amp up the question of if they'll make it or not. The end result is a horrible mess of a conclusion that leaves one rancid taste in my mouth.
    • Hobgoblin: Cell was already stated to have the DNA of not only the Saiyans, which is how he increases in strength, but also Freeza, which is how he survives in conditions that would otherwise kill him. So his power-up isn't magical. The main issue with his return is that he manages to come back even after stating that the nucleus of his head needs to be intact for his regeneration to work, a fact that is overlooked when he completely blows up his entire body and even earlier when Goku destroys his entire upper body with a Warp Kamehameha.
  • Tye Dye Wildebeest: The treatment of the (non saiyan) Z fighters during the Cell Games was especially sickening. Chiaotzu didn't even show up, and the rest of them might as well have stayed home for all the difference they made. At one point during Cell and Gohan's kamehameha battle, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien and Yamcha all decide to attack Cell at once to give Gohan more of an edge. All of them, combined, only manage to mildly annoy Cell, and in the end it's a single attack by Vegeta that gives Gohan the opening he needs. It'd be one thing if they were just Demoted to Extra, but at this point it seemed like the writers were going out of their way to show how hopelessly inferior they were to the saiyans.
  • Spider Fan 14: In the final episode of the Cell Games saga, Hercule takes all the credit for killing Cell, which everyone main/supporting character is OK with. Goku died to help kill Cell and this is how they repay him? At least a scrap of acknowledgement would be nice.

Buu Saga

  • Dephlogisticate: Vegeta's sacrifice in the Majin Buu Saga; when he uses Final Explosion, which is essentially the equivalent of a nuclear warhead going off, Majin Buu manages to regenerate. Vegeta's redeeming moment: Wasted
  • SSj-Protoman: This one is a personal one for me, but there is one moment that really gets on my nerves in the Buu saga (As much of a clusterfuck as it already is.) That moment is that whole "Life-force Stop-n-Swop" nonsense really late into it. Why is this? Because it was never brought up again! Why can't other Kais use this to bring back some really important fighters to help out during the really grueling battles? Why couldn't Elder Kai have told the other Kais about this technique before being sealed into the Z-Sword? Why didn't something like this happen with Trunks' timeline to bring back Piccolo to re-gather the Dragon Balls, and restore Earth back to the way it was after the Android threat was over and done with? And, if the Shin Budokai games are anything to go by, why couldn't they have done this for the redeemed Saiyans, like Bardock and Gine? The answer is... Never explained! All this bullshit is is just one giant ass-pull excuse to bring Goku back just to shut the fans up!
  • Dr Zulu 2010: For me, it has to be Goku's decision to choose Mr Satan and Dende over his children and Piccolo during the Majin Buu saga. While in hindsight, Satan turns out to be essential about Kid Buu's ultimate defeat, that still doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. Let's put that on another light. What if Piccolo was the one who goes to Namek and tell his race of what happened while Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten and Trunks could face off Kid Buu in an epic final showdown. Can you imagine the awesomness it could turn out to be?
    • Why Not Now: There's a reason many die-hard fans such as myself consider the Buu Saga a total failure, cool in some ways, but a huge flop overall, weak in storytelling and abominable in characterization, but the crowning moment for this "honor" that exemplifies everything that was wrong with the Buu Saga and indeed late Dragon Ball Z had to be Goku just leaving his sons behind to die on Earth at the hands of Majin Buu when he very easily had the power to save them. The plot Hand Waves this by never bringing it up again and implying that since they can be revived from death that it totally nullifies the downright evil crime Goku committed of letting his own flesh and blood die. Now, not only does this make death utterly meaningless on a level never seen before in Dragon Ball Z (not even in previous sagas), but it ignores the fact that there are some acts you just can't come back from. Knowingly letting a family member die is perhaps the darkest and most sadistic thing a villain can do, never mind the HERO of your goddamn story! It's utter failure on Goku's part and proof that he is perhaps the worst father ever, that he only viewed his family as more of an afterthought next to fighting and adventuring, and that just because something is easily fixed doesn't mean there isn't lingering pain. If a real life father left one of his OWN CHILDREN to die, that child could never look at the father the same way again, and it also negates the "Larger-Than-Life God Even Among Gods" image they were trying to give Goku in the final chapter of DBZ, because a true paragon of morality would look after his own and choose his family, not a fraud who insulted and dishonored them for seven years and an alien child he barely knows. All around fucking fail.
  • MsCC93: I think Chi-Chiís Undignified Death in the Majin Buu Saga counts. While it was an understandable Mama Bear reaction due to her believing Gohan was dead, it was still undeniably stupid. Now donít get me wrong, I was always mixed with Chi-Chiís character. At times, I find her completely understandable in her anger sometimes, and there are times I find her irritating. I would like to point out that fans usually say that Yamchaís death in the hands of a Saibaman in the Saiyan Arc was the most embarrassing death, but I disagree. This is due to the fact that it wasnít even Yamchaís fault he died. Chi-Chi, on the other hand, brought her own death on herself. This is due to a few factors.
    1. She (along with the others) just witnessed Majin Buu perform a human extinction attack, which killed almost every human being on the planet. This should have been an indicator that Majin Buu is no joke and heís dangerous.
    2. After disciplining Goten in a filler episode for recklessly rushing into a battle with Majin Buu (while Goten was fused with Trunks as Gotenks), she tearfully says that Goten is the only one she has left. Her slapping Super Buu in the face makes her out to be a hypocrite and it negates what she said.
    3. Piccolo warned everybody that nobody should do anything to provoke Majin Buu, but Chi-Chi stubbornly refuses to listen. He even tried holding her back many times, to boot. I always knew Chi-Chi wasnít the brightest bulb in the room, and Toriyama intended to make her a joke character, but this scene sickens me because I would have never though she would make such a foolhardy decision like this.
  • Isaac_Heller: Gohan getting absorbed by Buu, and subsequently Goku's defeat of Buu,. All that build-up, all that time spent on Gohan, those hours trying to pull out the Z sword and then just sitting in front of an old guy who can awaken his innermost power - completely and utterly WASTED because Toryiama up and decided that only Goku can be the hero, with Vegeta as the perpetual runner-up, a trend that got even worse by the time Super came around. It's also ridiculous that a kamikaze explosion from Vegeta, Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation, the much-hyped Gotenks and his Super Saiyan 3 transformation, Mystic-Powered Gohan, and the fusion of Goku and Vegeta couldn't kill Buu, but one really big Spirit Bomb fired by Goku at regular power does it. What?

    Super Era 

Battle of Gods

  • Falconwing: Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods was full of all sorts of things to bitch about. But none was more infuriating than the incomprehensible decision to retcon the story behind Planet Vegeta's destruction. Instead of Freeza blowing up the planet out of fear of a Super Saiyan. He was ordered by Villain Sue Beerus to do it for the most pettiest of reasons. Not only does it make Freeza look like a total pussy, it made Vegeta, and Goku's battles with him utterly pointless.

Dragon Ball Minus

  • supernintendo128: For me, it's that Dragon Ball Minus Retcons Goku's already established backstory from the DBZ Bardock special. In the special, Goku was sent to earth on a mission to wipe out all the humans shortly after he was born and right before Planet Vegeta is destroyed. In Dragon Ball Minus, Goku, when he was just 3 years old, was sent to Earth by his parents a month before Planet Vegeta is destroyed to save him from Frieza. It contradicts the anime and original manga in a few ways: Why is Goku a newborn when Grandpa Gohan finds him in the woods and why does he at first act hostile towards Grandpa Gohan when he wasn't ordered to wipe out the humans? At first you would think that it's Saiyan instinct but as Gine clearly demonstrates, not all Saiyans are violent. Not to mention that it is implied that Goku inherited his good-hearted nature from Gine. Not only that, but Goku's backstory went from being similar to Superman's backstory to being an outright ripoff.

Resurrection of 'F'

  • JM1982: Yamcha has been repeatedly shat on by creators and fans alike, but Resurrection F offered a Hope Spot that he might be able to earn some battle glory alongside the other human Z fighters by helping out in the battle against Frieza's army. Instead, the long tradition of Yamcha receiving sickening treatment From the writers continues with the revelation that he's unable to help out against an army of Mooks that Krillin and Gohan were flattening as far back as the Namek Saga. You know it's bad when he doesn't even show up in the Dragon Ball Super adaptation. And now, just to twist the knife even further in Super, they have Yamcha eagerly expecting an invitation to participate in the Multiverse Tournament, when we all know he never will.
    • Thats Numberwang: For me, the DMOS was bringing back Frieza as such a powerful enemy as it completely stretches credulity. The first time around Frieza was defeated effortlessly by Super Saiyan 1 Trunks and given a firm kicking by the (presumably at the time) far weaker Super Saiyan 1 Goku. Now, after what we are told is a training cycle of a few months, Frieza is capable of fighting on par with a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which makes him one of the strongest fighters in the history of the universe. Or in other words he went from weaker than a regular Super Saiyan to being stronger than a Super Saiyan second and third grade, a full-power Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 2, a Super Saiyan 3 and the fused characters like Vegito and Gotenks all in the space of a few months. And what is even more ridiculous is this cycle of Super Saiyan transformations didn't take place in a training room, it took place over a decade whilst fighting for their lives against enemies that eclipsed Frieza's original power level by thousands.

Dragon Ball Super

  • Bobg: In Dragon Ball Super, the creators do something that honestly feels like a spit in the face to Gohan fans. After the Resurrection F arc, Gohan decided to go back to training to get back all his strength that he lost after going five years without training, in an apparent Throw the Dog a Bone to Gohan fans. In episode 52, it's revealed that that was nothing but a lie. It's stated that Gohan has given up trying to regain his strength, and doesn't give a shit anymore. Even Piccolo, the guy who was training with him says as much. They also reveal that even after the 8 months of training that he did do, his base form is still not as powerful as his ss2 form was back in the Cell saga, even though he had his potential unlocked and can only go ss1 now. It seems like they gave us a Hope Spot just to pull the rug out from under us. It's also bullshit because Gohan went through the hell of almost losing his family specifically because he had gotten too weak to defend them due to his lack of training. This implies that not even the desire to protect his family was enough to keep him going for more than 8 months. After what he went through, no normal person would continue to slack off if it meant they couldn't defend their family. It feels like a combination of Character Derailment (as Gohan is supposed to want to be able to protect his family), and the creators of the show giving us a Hope Spot only to pull the rug out from under us and spit in our faces.
    • DestinedJedi87: For this troper, it's not even that they went back on their very clear promise that Gohan was finally going to regain his lost power and start training again, it's that they blatantly swapped out his infinitely superior ROF-style haircut which actually looks like the hairstyle Gohan was sporting when he was a kid back into the shitty, god-awful butch-style haircut we had at the end of the Buu Saga that doesn't even remotely resemble the evolution of Gohan's hairstyle up until that point the way the ROF-style haircut does, simply because a bunch of whiny, entitled fanboys were bitching about it online. For this troper, it was just the final nail in the coffin to the argument that Akira Toriyama and Toei Animation just don't understand Gohan anymore, why he was so special to us, what made us love him so much back when he was a little kid, and the kind of high appeal he had to millions of fans who grew up with him. It was nice while it lasted.
      • LSSJ2Gohan To complement the two previous points. The very worst of Episode 52. Look at Gohan's appearance. That "god-awful butch cut" and the shape of his eyes. He's in his Mystic Form... You mean to tell me Mystic Gohan is now weaker than he was all the way back to the Cell Games!? For shame, Toei! It's like you want to screw with Gohan!
  • The Ginger Artist: Going into Super, I was hyped up over it just like most long-time fans. But throughout the show, I've just been finding it to be at best a mediocre sequel with a few good and interesting moments, but it was otherwise subpar compared to Dragon Ball Z. But what finally killed this fucking series for me was the ending of the Future Trunks Arc. After Zamasu is slashed in half, he becomes an Eldritch Abomination that infects the universe and kills off all the mortals sans Future Trunks and Mai. Zen'o is forced to wipe out that universe, and Whis breaks the rules and interferes with another universe to prevent what occurred in Trunks' original future verse from happening there, just so Trunks and Mai can go live there. This is treated as an Bittersweet Ending and Earn Your Happy Ending ... when really, it's a goddamn Downer Ending. Everything Trunks did in Dragon Ball Z was for nothing. Everyone Trunks knew in his timeline isn't just dead — they're completely gone because the afterlife in that universe was also destroyed. Trunks failed to protect the future and uphold Gohan's legacy. It's a horrible ending — but we're supposed to feel happy for Trunks and Mai, since they're going into another future verse and everything is alright there? If anything, the fact that Super is trying to downplay Trunks' loss by having him go to another universe that was just like his before Zamasu came in is even worse. What was the point of the sacrifice when you're just trying to replace it? The ending was so unsatisfying and infuriating, and it was the straw that broke the camels back for me when it came to Super.
    • Tropers/Kantonkage: The fact that they don't use the Dragon balls to revive Trunks' world really pissed me off. How many times have the Dragon balls being used to revive the poor victims caused by Goku (and to a lesser extent Vegeta's) fuck ups. Yet Trunks gets punished for selflessly breaking a ridiculous taboo.
    • Peridonyx: To me, Infinite Zamasu is The Scrappy of both this arc and Super itself. It's Dragon Ball's worst Ass Pull ever, it "graduates" Zamasu (already the ultimate Villain Sue) to a literal Black Hole Sue, and it begins this arc's widespread Ending Aversion.
  • Breakingchains: Episode 68, "Come Forth, Shenron! Whose Wish Will Be Granted?" ends in a massive slap in the face for Bulma. Admittedly, I'm a little bitter about Bulma being underutilized and unappreciated, and I've been enjoying how Super brings her back to form after she spent so long being treated as either a shrieking burden or entirely irrelevant. So I may be biased, but I still feel the ending to this episode is completely unfair. Time travel is considered a sin and is taboo among the gods, but Bulma is intent on fixing her time machine, for the sake of intellectual interest if nothing else. When she is found out, Beerus destroys the element she needs for her time machine, then the time machine itself, and a good chunk of her lab along with it. And for some horrible reason this is played for laughs! Hell, Beerus realized he was guilty of the same "sin" one episode ago and let Trunks off the hook for it; more importantly, the entire anime up to this point is soaked with themes of daring to challenge on the unearned authority of this entire pantheon. Why am I supposed to laugh when Bulma's small act of rebellion gets her lab destroyed and leaves her crying on the ground?
  • Ilya Rysenkov: I lost quite a bit of my respect for Goku when it turns out that he was the one who hired to Hit to kill himself. I admit, Chi-Chi can be really overbearing and annoying, but she's his wife! No doubt she'll take it hard if he died for real! (And she did.) Gohan and Goten's reaction are basically the same as hers , though they came to support his idea (which is frustrating). While I generally find this episode very interesting, this is one of the lowest points here for me.
  • [cookieman]: I feel like the unnecessary filler episode where Android 17 and Goku go to fight the alien poachers has one of the worst DMOS in a while ... they warp into King Kai's planet when they're under the impression that the poacher leader is a timebomb. Goku just casually laughs it off saying that King Kai should be used to it by now. Hello? What's wrong with this picture? Shortly after the Future Trunks Saga, Goku tried to revive King Kai in an episode that ended up being a "Shaggy Dog" Story, then Goku suddenly wants King Kai to die again. Oh ... if he, Gregory, and Bubbles die AFTER already being dead, they're Deader Than Dead. Didn't Goku realize that? Thankfully Dende revealed the villain's "timebomb" act as a bluff. Maybe characters like Toppo, Bergamo, and Zamasu are right in considering Goku "evil" at times.
  • Azn Pinoy: Okay, sure it makes sense for Frieza to be the 10th warrior instead of Buu now, but does that mean Goku shouldn't forget all the evil things he did? Lets put it this way, at Episode 95, he got hit by the ball of destruction and said that he forgot Frieza could be a real scumbag. Lets remember what Frieza did: killed billions of people, enslaved others, tortured innocents, tortured Krillin and Gohan(twice), killed Krillin and threatened Gohan, destroyed Namek and Earth, and you FORGOT THAT HE WAS AN EVIL SCUMBAG? Looks like Goku's idea on the 10th warrior is getting better.
  • Shadow 200: The reveal that Super Saiyan, which has been regarded as a myth and legend, comes down to being achieved not from feeling great anguish and despair such as Goku on Namek when Krillin was killed, or when Vegeta felt he could never surpass Goku, or Trunks finding Future Gohan's body. No, it all comes down to stretching out your back muscles. What...the...hell?! Seriously, something that's been always been an iconic symbol of the franchise and that's all you need to do to transform? Give me a break, not to mention Caulifla unlocking it with ease and the very next episode going Super Saiyan 2 with no difficulty. I'm seriously hoping she gets thrashed during the Tournament of Power.
  • SenorCornholio: Changing/expanding on my previous moment, here, because Krillin really got the short end of the stick. We were shown that he's been taking his newfound training a lot more seriously, ringing out Gohan and even going one-on-one against Base Form Goku, and with 18 helping him out, he had even greater odds than ever before. Sounds like Krillin is finally getting some much-needed love, right? Well, the anime decided that apparently they weren't satisfied and turned Krillin into the new Yamcha. It was bad enough when Krillin had to be threatened with being hakai'd out of existence after being too scared to participate due to the threat of the universe being destroyed, but then come the tournament proper and Krillin actually does pretty good... Which only lasts 3 episodes before he's unceremoniously kicked out of the ring by Frost (you heard me, Frost) in a way that could have been avoided. Namely, he got overconfident long enough to let his guard down; that in itself is a problem with Super as a whole that the characters have to be made incompetent for them to actually lose, but that's beside the point. Beerus, 17, and 18 then waste no time in laying into the poor guy for his failures which, though possibly venting off some of the viewers' frustrations, came off as far too mean-spirited for a franchise like Dragon Ball. I understand Beerus getting upset, and Android 17 commenting on how lame that performance was seemed perfectly in character, but 18 took a huge level in jerkass for that moment, angrily chewing out Krillin and outright saying "You call yourself my husband?!" just for briefly letting his guard down. When Krillin had to be coerced into joining the tournament, that should have been a sign that the anime suddenly had nothing but ill intent for Krillin; seriously, he lasted a shorter time than Master Roshi, and he lost relevance far earlier. He might as well have never even participated to begin with, if this is how the show treats him.
  • Schonberg: If Krillin got the short end of the stick, Tenshinhan doesn't even HAVE a stick anymore. In the original Dragon Ball, he was one of the most powerful characters in the canon, able to fight near evenly with Goku, besting Yamcha and Master Roshi, and had a slew of attacks from the powerful and fast Dodon Ray, the multiple arms technique, multiple bodies, psychic powers, the deadly and self sacrificing Kikoho/Tri-Beam, the crafty Solar Flare, as well as being one of the first characters able to fly. In Z he received similar treatment as the other humans, being given small moments to shine such as dealing a strong blow to Nappa and holding back Semi-Perfect Cell, before disappearing until a single failed attack against Super Buu. In Super? When it comes time for the Tournament of Power, Goku and the gang list off potential members. They think of Android 17, whom they haven't seen in nearly a decade (and Goku had NEVER met), Krillin, and even Master Roshi. By the end of the episode they've thought of 9 warriors, which would comprise the final team (and Buu)... but not Tenshinhan. Tien was only added because Goku found out Master Roshi was waiting at Tenshinhan's new dojo. To add further insult to injury, each member of the Tournament of Power team got at least one episode to show off how strong they'd gotten on their own (albeit with Krillin and 18 sharing an episode, and Gohan and Piccolo sharing one as well). In the episode Tenshinhan is recruited, he is beaten up by Master Roshi while Goku remarks at how powerful the old man had become. In the following episode, Goku and Tenshinhan face against Gohan and Piccolo to test their teamwork. Which results in Tenshinhan being taken out by a single punch from Gohan, and when he finally recovers enough to use a Kikoho Gohan stops him again. He's then left relatively out of focus until the Tournament of Power actually starts, and does nothing of note until he takes out The Preecho that Roshi was holding stunned. The next time Tenshinhan is seen he faces off with a sniper enemy, and decides to rush at the warrior with the multi-form technique, cutting his speed and power into 4. Not only do each of the clones get taken out, but Tenshinhan is then tricked off the stage as the sniper Hermilla blows up the ground beneath them both, resulting in Tenshinhan falling out of the ring, but not Hermilla who was closer to the edge than Tenshinhan was. While Tenshinhan uses the clones to drag his foe down with him, it doesn't make sense why this experienced martial arts genius would not leave a single clone on the stage as a lifeline instead of throwing them all down with him, let alone why he couldn't jump like Hermilla id to avoid the fall. He ends the tournament with the worst showing from Universe 7, participating in only one elimination and one team elimination. It's an utter shame to see what was once among the strongest characters in the canon be reduced to such a joke.
    • Schonberg: Expanding on the same point I made before as new information has come out... which makes the complaint even WORSE. Krillin and Tenshinhan, whom fans were hoping would get a better showing in the manga than in the anime, actually perform even worse, scoring no eliminations at all and losing in the second chapter of the tournament. Krillin doesnít even let off an attack, but Tenshinhan... does a Kikoho, the only move the creative staff seem to remember him having. A truly disappointing development.
  • GamingFan1997: The treatment of Universe 4. While it was already clear that this universe would be one of the less relevant universes in the Tournament of Power, there was still some potential for some interesting developments during the Universe Survival arc, such as the two hidden fighters and the rivalry between Beerus and Quitela. Also, most of the fighters for that Universe had interesting designs or abilities, and the idea of them using stealth or deception to eliminate opposing fighters could have created a good amount of suspense. As for their actual role in the Tournament of Power... they pretty much ended up being a group of Elite Mooks and nothing more. Seriously, just look at the episodes in which they were eliminated, and tell me you don't notice a pattern. Every time a fighter from Universe 4 was eliminated, it was when they were the focus antagonist for the episode (Nink being the sole exception, and he was one of the first fighters eliminated in the ToP), and aside frome Episode 119, it was as part of the focus episode for an already established character in the series, who would end up eliminating them in that episodenote . On top of that, they had no real prominence in any episodes outside of the ones where they were the main threat of the episode, which is especially bad in the case of the hidden fighters, as we could have had them picking off fighters while they were still hiddennote , thereby building up suspense for when Universe 7 finally faces them. Finally, their last appearance in the Tournament of Power, Episode 119, was basically just more of the same: Universe 4 guys appear, give the protagonists some trouble, protagonists figure out their gimmick, Universe 4 guys get their asses kicked, end episode. What makes it worse than the previous episodes in which this happened is a) there wasn't really any development or focus for any of the characters this time around and b) this is supposed to be the episode where Universe 4 gets erased, and yet it got no real sense of closure, something that all the universes that were erased up to this point had, even Universe 10. Even the fact that they eliminated Piccolo is more or less brushed off; even if Universe 7 still has the majority of fighters left at this point in the tournament, you'd think the elimination of one of the main characters would have attracted a lot more attention. Overall, it just ended up feeling like Universe 4 was more or less filler, and the fact that so much potential was wasted just makes it feel all the more disappointing.
  • Tomodachi: You know, while I have heard a lot of fans praise the manga version of the Future Trunks saga, and I admit there are some moments I found much better than the anime, there have been two moments from the manga that just makes me realize Dragon Ball Super is Not So Different from Gt in their problems. Basically, Trunks becoming a disciple of the Supreme Kai, and Goku obtaining a more powerful version of Super Saiyan Blue. I get it, people don't like Trunks getting new powers as the plot demands and his inconsistent power scaling, trust me I get it, but, why the hell is he demoted to extra in his own arc? His future got destroyed by Black and Zamasu, his mom was killed (Off-screen, by the way), and the best Toyotaro can think for him is making him a healer so that Goku, who doesn't have any interesting relationship with neither Zamasu (As Zamasu is more of a Foil to Trunks) or Goku Black (Who he never fights against), can obtain a new power up and defeat him himself? No... just no. Is Goku time all over again. The fact Trunks is all too quiet about his home erasure at the end of the arc is just pathetic. No tears? Nothing? What the hell Trunks?
  • Loekman 3: While I truly enjoy episode 130 for the fight between Goku and Jiren, especially with the former finally managing to defeat him at full power, one moment that leaves a really bitter taste for my mouth is The Reveal that Android 17 actually managed to survive his Heroic Sacrifice. What the hell Toei? He already has an effective send-off, one of the best Heroic Sacrifice of the series so having him turn out to be fine really cheapens the impact and turn Universe 7 into a big Plot Armor. Not to mention if Android 17 actually turned out to be fine, you'd think that he'd save Vegeta from his elimination and continue to pressure Jiren as he continues to stall for time.


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DethroningMoment/DragonBallZ