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Narrative
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Zephid: I was under the impression The Eye of Argon was So Bad Its Good mostly because it causes such mirth and laughter to read through it, especially if you have a tank of helium on hand.
fleb: Me too. I think the page is suffering example creep, because from my understanding, there's some enjoyment to be had in So Bad Its Good, whereas So Bad Its Horrible is purely trainwreck fascination where you never want to see it again. And there's a lot of examples that, from the description, just sound like "it sucked hard", which doesn't truly meet the truly epic failure I'd expect. I'd prune them, but since I've never seen the things I can't be sure.
Seven Seals: "If it's impossible to imagine a parody of it, it very likely counts." This is a very good lithmus test. Most So Bad Its Good things could conceivably be made one shade more ridiculous (although you'd have to be very talented to top it), but something So Bad Its Horrible is its own best parody. Krid: I completely missed this page and made my own by mistake. (Sorry!) On the off chance somebody wants to cannibalize parts of it to improve this one, here's what I had:
 ) Or would that be too obscure an example?
Seth: With the exception of the Manos thing that was parodied on Mystery Science Theatre, all of these are too obscure for me. That's the point. But remember every example and link could possibly drive someone insane or attract flamers who actually liked it.
Ununnilium: I'm going to argue that the Doom comic fits into So Bad Its Good. Certainly, I found it hilarious.
Kizor: I'm going to argue that it fits here: I found it painful more than anything. The dividing line, as the entry notes, depends partially on the person.
Kizor: AAAGH! (read the comic at the same time for additional effect.)
Ununnilium: Folder's corrupted.
Kizor: The download has a bad habit of getting cut off in mid-suck. My Firefox 2.0.0.2 is able to resume instead of overwriting.
Licky Lindsay: The Doom comic would be unreadable if it was longer, but its brevity makes it bearable. Also, it's the perfect example of an adaptation with with neither Adaptaion Decay or Adaption Distillation... the game is translated into comic form literally. Not the "story" of the game, the actual gameplay itself. I can't think of anything else quite like it.
Mister Six: Surely the Doom comc is intentionally stupid? The whole thing is a parody of the game's lack of any kind of plot or purpose other than killing. I found it pretty funny myself.
Kizor: I removed Crossed The Line Twice and the Plan Nine from Outer Space example, since those are both things that cause genuine affection, while these things have the charisma of a severe car accident and draw an audience for much the same reasons. I'll add the video link to So Bad Its Good, though. Mister Six: Updated the Doom comic bit to point out that some people think it's intentionally funny. This is because it's intentionally funny. Nezumi: Updated the Doom comic entry to once again correctly use monologue—by definition, dialogue requires there to be at least two character talking, and the Marine is the only one with lines in the comic. Zeke: Okay, this is ridiculous — Frank Miller's All-Star Batman and Robin can't be So Bad Its Good and So Bad Its Horrible. They're mutually exclusive. We need to pick one and stick with it. We should also consider neither. With both So Bad pages, especially this one, there's clearly a danger of just listing things you really hate. (I'm taking out the Dark Knight Strikes Again item for that reason — it actually says as much.) You know how a book shouldn't be called a "classic" for at least 50 years? I think ten years or so would be a sensible guideline for these pages. I hold no brief for Frank Miller, by the way. I don't think DKSA was very good (especially the art... man, he should really stick to drawing his own characters). But So Bad Its Horrible is more than just bad, and the distinction will become worthless if we overuse it. Filby: I vote for So Bad Its Good, if only because hundreds of readers seem to think "I'm the goddamn Batman!" is the funniest thing ever. The Kitchen Magician: I think that if we can't decide whether something is So Bad Its Good or So Bad Its Horrible, we should just put it in Snark Bait. Is that a decent compromise? 32_Footsteps: For the record, I can confirm that a website actually changed its PHP coding to give <i>Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing</i> the rating it deserves. I'm on the executive staff of Netjak, the site that did so. We originally used a 1-10 scale, thinking that if a game was truly putrid and not worth playing, it deserved a 1. After we all gave <i>Big Rigs</i> a try, though, we agreed that it needed a 0 in every conceivable way. We have used the rating since then, but only for one aspect of a given game's production (and not for the game as a whole), though we're hoping that we won't have to ever again. Should Napoleon Dynamite be put in here as a debated case? I personally think it fits this like a glove, but many others don't agree. Roland: It gets my vote, but I found it kinda spiteful. Roland: Is it just me or is that webcomic blog remarkably- like, unbelievably- venomous? Not that Shredded Moose doesn't deserve it, but some of the other ones they've reviewed probably didn't deserve half the hate they got- and it wasn't even constructive criticism, just lots of insults. Air Of Mystery: Oh yes. I mean, fat jokes about Scott Kurts. Wow. How witty. And his "pointlessly wear at everything all the time"? The Angry Video Game Nerd started that years ago. And did it much funnier. Jordan: Was just going to say that I agree with taking out that "Nazi Sci-Fi" book review I linked to. I apologize, as it's pretty inflamatory (indeed, it nearly deserves inclusion on the Godwins Law page). Doctrain66: I don't think The Rebirth is So Bad Its Horrible. I like it. Mark Z: Deleted Ed Wood. The nostalgia and camp value of his movies puts them squarely in So Bad Its Good territory, as the example acknowledged. Doctrain66:The Rebirth and G.I. Joe: The Movie really don't belong here. When I watched them, I thought they were pretty good. That's why I removed them. fleb: I remember the The Rebirth entry being funny, so I wish you'd've copied them here when you removed them. Later edit: Well, my memory deceived me, but here's what it said according to archive.org:
Tabby: Don't worry, "this editor." I liked Tin Man, too. SynjoDeonecros: Removed the Sonic the Hedgehog OAV installment, because of so many people claiming to enjoy it, and one person's...abrasive insistence that the "Knuckles is a Mole" thing was a mistranslation. Personally, as the guy who posted the example, I have to disagree with the supporters, especially in light of the fact that at least part of the storyline (with Amy Rose being replaced with a human princess as Sonic's love interest) was reused in the newest game... wcw ecw invation was a good story line however it sufferd from Hype Backlash and a bit Screwed By The Network(tnn wqas supposed to give wcw it's own show, the fact that most wcw wrestlers were still under contract from time warner, it deffinetly was not so bad it's horrible MrOnimusha: As if your appalling grasp of spelling wasn't bad enough, you're trying to defend something that the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of wrestling fans would agree with me when I say that it genuinely WAS so bad it's horrible. And yes, all those "vast"s were needed. Also, the Civil War segment is nice and deleted, because there's no part of it that isn't insanely subjective. Solitaire: I guess I made a bad call with the Civil War thing. For the most part, I posted it onto this list because it committed the same sin that you hold Terry Goodkind to task for: excusing the atrocities of the Designated Heroes (in this case, Iron Man and the other pro-reg supers) because they've supposedly got the moral high ground. The difference, I realize, is that this is less clear with Civil War because of the collaborative nature of the project (some writers made the right choice and backed Captain America. Now if only they hadn't taken his spine...). Given the circumstances, I'm wondering if the series can be more accurately classified as Snark Bait. Demetrios: I can think of another reason why Meet the Spartans is So Bad Its Horrible: the part that parodies Spider-Man III. As any fan of comic books knows, Venom is practically the embodiment of Nightmare Fuel, so thus beautiful women and symbiotes are a bad combination. That Other 1 Dude: Musashi Gundoh falls under Your Mileage May Vary. Mutant Robot: My, it seems everybody has something to say, and this entry is getting way too long. It looks like we may have to break up this entry soon, with separate pages for each medium, like we did with I Am Not Making This Up and Nightmare Fuel. Anybody agree? Willy Four Eyes: Agreed. I'm going to break it down piece by piece right now. Kizor: This was never intended to be subjective, and its original criterion was such that diverting too far from it would make the article completely useless. My apologies for the incident that left me unable to perform maintenance while the situation spiralled out of control. Once I have the time again, I will likely remerge the subpages when I restore the article to a meaningful state. That Other 1 Dude: Too late! It's already spiraled well beyond anyone's control, with about twenty examples per medium, and doesn't mean half as much as it use to. People seem to be ignoring that if you can start a Flame War over whether something is So Bad It's Horrible then it is NOT AN EXAMPLE! Kizor: Just for the record, this (NSFW!) is the kind of thing we're supposed to limit ourselves to.
Coolnut: Agree with Kizor and That Other 1 Dude. I planned to add at least three other examples, then it hit me. SBIH devolved into "I hate this (add reasons why), I found others that hate this for similar reasons, therefore it MUST be SBIH!" (I'm not calling out anyone, btw.) But in short, you mean you can't tell the difference between something that's plain old bad and forgettable — and something that's really, really bad that makes a Razzie look like an Oscar flick?
I also recall that in the late 90s, a Tabletop Games magazine (InQuest, IIRC) did something like this on what they thought were So Bad It's Horrible [=RPGs=], CCGs, and the like. They got hatemail up the wazoo.
Also, if it does start a Flame War, it should be deleted here and now. We really need to take the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment in hand and trim the lot of them out.
(For those who are curious, the examples included the 1985 Red Sonja flick, the NES Dragonlance game, and the CCG Super Deck!)
Mythsage: I'd just like to ask what happened to the index; it's been deleted without anybody saying why.
Phartman: My guess is because someone out there is a self-important asshole. There was a lot of really entertaining stuff that's been replaced with a simple "no examples, please." Eat me, whoever did that; eat me so bad.
Fast Eddie: They've been restored. That's what page history is for, for when people try to impose their will on the wiki without discussion.
Charred Knight: Is their a way to ban his I.P? This guy is an obvious troll
Inkblot: I'm not a troll. People were complaining about how out-of-control this page is, so I decided it would be best to combine the So Bad Its Good and So Bad Its Horrible examples into a Troper Tales page. But since the site crashed on me last night, I couldn't finish it. I'll leave the page alone for now.
...and i've been banned. Lovely. I was only acting in the interest of the Wiki. If you unban me, I promise i'll make sure to run by any major changes with other tropers before I change anything. I assumed that the dislike of what this page became is universal, and i'm sorry for that.
fleb: Banning seems like overkill. This has had discussion here and at Contributor Announcements: it went nowhere, and I was tempted to just take unilateral action myself. Regardless, we need to do to this what we did to Rape The Dog: redefine it and move the pages-as-they-were into the Archive/ namespace, so that we can preserve the entertaining stuff we don't want to lose. (Which'll require re-renaming to So Bad Its Horrible Video Games again.) Rogue7 has a good proposal for reincarnating So Bad Its Horrible into a more manageable, discussion-heavy form over at Ask The Tropers.
Inkblot: Since people have agreed that i'm not an "obvious troll", may I be unbanned? I'm gettting sick of proxies. My hostname is *@cpe-76-180-220-134.buffalo.res.rr.com.
Lord Seth: I think that anything that's popular should automatically be gone from SBIH; remember that the definition of SBIH is something that almost no one can derive any enjoyment from. (Note that this doesn't count the *shudder* "______ Movie" movies by Seltzer And Friedberg, as they weren't actually popular, they just turned a decent profit because they were so cheap to make) Anyone agree? Fast Eddie: Cutlisting this entire section as being off-mission. One of the other Cutmasters will have to do the actual cut, as I have a stake in the outcome. I now feel strongly that opinion pieces about specific works harm us, in that they distract from the discussion of tropes and cause divisions among the tropers on issues that are not related to tropes. Freezair For A Limited Time: Well, I'd rather we didn't loose the WHOLE section. They're still fun to read, after all. I at least advise some kind of archive space for all this, as it WAS entertaining. Tanto: Bah. Define "fun" — I for one find bile-spewing to be the lowest form of discourse. Seconding the cut — it should have been done a long time ago, once the page shifted from "amazingly bad stuff" to "stuff I don't like". It's always bugged me that we strictly forbid complaining and subjectivity on most of the pages, but we have these little exception pages where people are allowed to go hog-wild. Maybe if we just shut it down and say "No, not anywhere" we can get back on-message. Freezair For A Limited Time: OK. "Fun" as in "Cathartic when you've been having a bad day." To pull a quote from a Pixar movie, "Negative criticism is fun to write and fun to read." A little subjectivity and the ability to go hog-wild in a few places is part of the fun and appeal of this place, after all. Besides, it's still a fairly important part of Wiki history, as it were. Trying to cut it wholesale and pretending it never existed would fool no one. And if we did, somebody would invariably try to bring it back. The complaining would almost certainly spill over into the forum. Or, heck, why not stuff it on Darth Wiki? I don't think we ever went off message. The majority of the Wiki is still about tropes and examples thereof. Having subjective pages does not automatically mean we have forgotten our mission statement. Fast Eddie: The Darth Wiki idea might work. Technically, it would be assigning the same 'look' to the section as Darth Wiki, rather than putting it in the Darth Wiki section. The precedent that things like Darth Wiki are about blowing steam and aren't what we're really about has been set. //Later: You know, I just tried it as an experiment, and it works. I'm moving the index page to Darth Wiki, and withdrawing my support of the cut I proposed. Stellar suggestion, Freezair For A Limited Time. Freezair For A Limited Time: Awww, shucks. T'weren't nothin'. Does the "experiment" have to do with double namespaces? Because that's what I'm imagining here. Fast Eddie: Not so much. The So Bad Its Horrible stuff is now all in something that looks like Darth Wiki. There are actually three namespaces involved. In Main, a link to So Bad Its Horrible will be redirected to Darth Wiki, where you find the page as an index to "...Horrible", the pages of which look like Darth Wiki... Nevermind the tech-y crap. People can now bitch about stuff in the "...Horrible" pages and the look of the thing, hopefully, will communicate that such stuff is for that kind of fun and not about the main mission. Antwan: Somebody is having a field day with removing quotes from the articles here with no reason other than "moved it to quotes". Can somebody give me some explanation here? If nobody gives me any, I'm going to put some of them back up. triassicranger: I think he/she is moving the quotes to the Quotes Wiki, I think. Antwan: I know that. I mean, why do it? At least leave a reason. triassicranger: To prevent the page from being cluttered with quotes. I think the main page of Quotes Wiki says something like that. Antwan: Okay, fair enough. I'll place them in other pages then. Ethereal Mutation: Most of the quotes were from Caustic Critics for things that just weren't true entries themselves (as the quotes page indicates). It's not unreasonable to have the base requirement of the reviewed object to at least appear on the list proper. Great Pikmin Fan: I find most of these examples to be So Bad Its Good. Antwan: We've looked around extensively and trust us, the overall reception of these items are very bleak. There will always be at least one fan liking Action 52 or Manos: The Hands of Fate, but if it isn't significant enough, it belongs here. Sorry. Ack Sed: Finding fanfic for your fandom listed here will forever taint your perceptions. Thank you, Rule 34! :-( Antwan: Guys, I appreciate that you want to put clean up into this, but slow down. I don't know about you, but I think we're setting the bar for what's supposed to be horrible enough to be here a little too high. I know you guys don't want stuff that one person just doesn't like, but I want to be sure that whatever anybody says isn't a Justifying Edit or a trap for a Flame War. Give the other side a chance and if it isn't good enough, then delete it. Can we add advertising to this list? The rascist Sales Genie ad comes to mind. Egregious Eric: Would the xkcd image be acceptable if the colors were inverted? So ummm...does the 4Kids dub of One Piece belong in So Bad It's Horrible anime or is it So Bad It's Good? |
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