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Pannic2013-01-26 23:06:42

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Pardon Me While I Have a Strange Interlude

You know, sometimes when I express the opinion that I am not blown away by this fic, I often get explanations that it’s better if you’re familiar with the games. The funny thing is, I find that learning about the games actually makes the fic kinda worse.

I mean, Red Eye just doesn’t seem as impressive once you realize that the speeches he gives over the radio are directly lifted from John Henry Eden’s radio speeches in Fallout 3. I just find myself waiting for him to return and start going on about baseball.

There’s also that one "fuck you" quest in Fallout 3 with the ghouls at Tenpenny Tower, and knowing about how that worked just made the parallel in this fic look even cheaper than it already is.

And of course, the story’s constant treatment of violence as the only answer to every problem. You know, at the start of Fallout and Fallout 2, if you don’t want to make your own custom character, you can select from one of three premades, with one premade being a combat-oriented dude with high combat skills, a thief-type character with high Agility and Intelligence, or, and this is going to blow your fucking mind, a diplomacy-based character. Apparently the Speech skill is actually a bit more useful than fucking Gambling.

Bleh. I’m gonna be a bit rambly. This chapter didn’t actually have much of anything wrong with it. It actually had a couple cute moments, and apart from reaching angst critical mass the characters weren’t annoying. I actually think I liked it more than chapter 37, honestly. If I weren't told 37 was a big deal I probably would've just moved on. So this is probably gonna focus a bit more on some overarching problems I have with the story as a whole than anything wrong with this chapter in particular.

So anyway, after breaking out of Canterlot, Littlepip has to rescue Velvet from drowning, there’s stuff there, and she passes out. I notice she passes out a lot. I mean, seriously, add that to the drinking game.

Littlepip has this dream sequence where the black book starts fucking with her and I won’t comment on this scene because it’s actually okay and I can’t really think of anything wrong with it.

I take it from Littlepip’s internal monologue here (oh boy, another one) that those memory orbs were supposed to be gut-wrenching. Huh. Odd.

But anyway, SteelHooves is briefly immobilized and they have to wait for Littlepip to wake up and reboot his system. There’s also yammering and chatting about how Littlepip saw the memory orb. I remember back in chapter 35 how I mentioned that SteelHooves’ whole “thank you for failing, your were just too perfect before” was really stupid, but I guess the context here makes it slightly more sensical for his character. Guy needs a role model, I guess. Doesn’t alleviate the aggravation that is pretty much every designated sympathetic character singing the hero’s praises, though.

Also, Calamity is having a bunch of angst about the whole thing with the Steel Rangers at Bucklyn Cross. Again? I gotta admit I didn’t quite see this coming from him, so I guess I have to give some credit there.

So Littlepip meets with Xephyr, Xenith’s daughter, but she really doesn’t care about her being back and neither of them really want to be a part of each others’ lives, mirroring Littlepip’s relationship with her mother. Ooh, Xephyr’s father is a reference to the leader of the Khans, a group of Raiders, in the first Fallout. That was fun. For yucks I played a character with 10 Luck, so when I walked into the camp they thought I was the ghost of the leader’s father and promptly shat their pants, leaving me free to browse their bookshelf and pocket a couple of molotov cocktails, which was nice because I’d picked Throwing Weapons as a tag skill.

So they meet up with Derpy and Silver Bell again (hooray for a character I actually like) and it’s a generally cute scene, and Velvet makes her horn grow back.

You know, I’ve mentioned that the few characters I do like seem to either die or fade into the background. One of you lovely commenters commented that maybe I simply liked them because they didn’t stick around long enough to annoy me. There might be some merit to that thought. Silver Bell struck me as really interesting and sympathetic when she was introduced in chapter 9, but now she’s kinda just a standard “cute kid.” There isn’t really anything wrong with that, I guess, I mean, it’s still cute, at least.

I think that I’d actually be more interested in a story following Silver Bell, Monterey Jack, those two raiders from chapter 25, Strawberry Lemonade, and Caliber. That’d be a colorful cast, provided you could give them good characterizations and character arcs and stuff. I think the thing I like about characters like that is that they’re sort of just a cross-section of the Wasteland population. The random schmoes you might fight at random, so to speak. The core cast of protagonists is a little bit too “high and mighty,” so to speak. You have Littlepip, who very quickly gets raised to the pedestal of Totally Not the Messiah. Calamity, who is the only principle pegasus character introduced so far, an exile, and prior to his exile was hot shit in the Enclave. You have SteelHooves, and while him being a 200 year-old ghoul is made less stand-outish by the presence of other 200 year-old ghouls, he’s still Applejack’s former lover and a very important pony in the Steel Rangers. Then you have Xenith, who is pretty much introduced as being “exotic” despite being less interesting than the character she killed off in her introduction. And then you have Velvet Remedy, who is fucking annoying.

What I’m saying is I think it’d be a bit better if the story gave more focus to these random schmoes. The Walking Dead did well at this, as its cast of characters was a batch of random people who just got thrown into a horrible situation. These characters also serve to help show how, exactly, the Wasteland is supposed to be horrible and it breaks you and stuff, and I think they do a better job of it than Littlepip does when she starts narrating about her physical trauma. It’s just kind of hard for me to buy the stuff about how horrible and unforgiving the setting is when the characters are carrying around enough weapons and ammunition to instate a small junta. Also dresses.

So Littlepip narrates again how she feels bad about thinking of robbing her. You know, she never did say she was sorry for burglarizing her (yes, burglarizing, not stealing, there is a distinction between the two and Littlepip actually did do one of them) in chapter 9. Since the chapter isn’t giving me a whole lot of things to complain about here, I think I’ll interrupt the recap here and draw back on another slightly “bigger picture” thing.

I mentioned earlier that I didn’t hate Littlepip from the start. Of course, a bunch of you don't believe me, but I don't really care. Actually, at the start I think I had a bit of a non-reaction because I found her fairly bland. I didn’t find her actively unlikable until the story got a bit further. You see, in the first several chapters, Littlepip does a number of things that started to send up little tiny red flags. I ignored them at first because they weren’t really big deals and were largely justified or solved in context.

She shoots an enemy that’s running away. Seraphem’s blog pointed out that I was mistaken in my assessment of the room geometry... Though if he’s facing Littlepip with a hostage in front of him and the balcony is behind him, how the hell does he jump over the hostage in his attempt to escape?... Anyway, that happened, I went “okay, that was kinda dark, thought it’d take her longer to get to that point, but he was really evil, moving on” and so that wasn’t a big deal (however I do still maintain that it makes it harder for me to take her angsting about her karma throughout the story seriously).

Then in chapter 5 there’s that stable run, and Littlepip has some reactions that make me go “wait, is it just me, or is she just a little bit sexist?” And okay, that’s not a big deal, Calamity calls her out on this and it’s really more part of an overarching thing about how things aren’t the way they should be.

Then when Velvet joins the party Littlepip shoves a weapon at her and tells her to get ready to use it. Insensitive, perhaps, but they are under attack and Velvet is being fucking annoying.

Then she burglarizes an orphan. Okay, people aren’t themselves when they’re under the influence of drugs.

But the thing is, all these little tiny things add up, and Littlepip is really bland, so her good qualities don’t really do a whole lot to balance out her less-than-inspiring qualities, and I realize that her tendency towards moments of rather disquieting behavior was something of a trend. So come the end of chapter 12 and I just have to stop and say, “This character is a dick.” And that's the thing - overall, the character is a dick. I can take characters who are dicks, but only if they're interesting or entertaining, like Tyrion Lannister. He's funny. Admittedly Littlepip has come off as slightly less dickish in the last couple chapters, but I'm not sure if it's because of a genuine change in her character or simply due to a lack of opportunity. Her narration has also shifted away from self-righteousness to a newfound emphasis on self-pity, because both of those are such inspiring emotions.

So the party moves on and finds that there’s what appears to be two small groups of raiders fighting, one of which is a few foals. After figuring out which ones are the good guys, they take out the bad ones, Littlepip has a brief freak-out when the Black Book starts tempting her to make blood knives and she realizes that’s fucking disgusting and she’d rather just stick with telekinesis as her only thing.

So they save the kids and there’s a cute moment where they talk about how much they love the Stable Dweller (they don’t recognize Littlepip as such because she’s got new barding) and Velvet, who one of them actually likes more than the stable dweller because she’s nice and stuff. I do admit, that’s going to get in the way of the coming “I hate Velvet Remedy” rant, but I still think I can manage it.

So the kids are from a nearby town, but the raiders (and Littlepip does a lampshade hanging about respawning enemies because that’s somehow funny) killed all the adults in town and took the kids hostage. So they agree to go rescue the kids from the raiders, who are stationed at Fluttershy’s Cottage.

And of course, this famous scene, raiders have shat up the place, they’re being pure evil and have to die, Velvet grabs a shotgun and goes on a rampage. Might’ve been a little bit more effective if the narrator didn’t reference the “shotgun surgeon” perk, as putting the reference in there just takes me out of the scene by reminding me “oh yeah, this is a video game.”

Also, Velvet Remedy, during her nuts bit, goes “I’ve never killed a pony before.”

Um. Yes. Yes you did. Thirty chapters ago. On the train. With the slaver you shot full of needles. I actually went back and checked the damn thing, and she did indeed kill the slaver in chapter eight. Might want to get your memory checked, Velvet, it wasn’t all that long ago. Aren't I supposed to be the one that utterly fails at reading comprehension and shit?

And thus ends a character trait. It will not be missed, for it never amounted to anything. Actually kind of refreshing that she’s finally dropped the pseudo-pacifist pretense and has just joined lock-in-step with the rest of the "shoot everything I don't like" crowd, though she breaks down into angst about it and how the raiders don't make any fucking sense. And now for me to do something I’ve been wanting to do for a while.

Now, you’ll notice that I have on many occasions stated that Velvet essentially boils down to a fluffed-up strawman who exists to show that trying to find solutions other than violence is stupid. to which I have heard endless cries of “no she isn’t!” Well, allow me to explain myself. Let us examine the facts:

The protagonist and most of the party members have no problems at all about the use of lethal force, and have routinely used that as their go-to course of action for virtually all of their conflicts. Said characters are flatly uninterested in attempting an alternative solution except in cases where they are outnumbered and outgunned. They’ve also shown themselves to be fairly unacquainted with concepts like pity or mercy, except for things like letting an attacker bleed to death rather than put her out of her misery, or giving painkillers to a dying pony who didn’t actually attack them. And of course, their methods pretty much always work and usually have positive outcomes.

The sole exception to this mindset is Velvet Remedy, who is consistently shown to be ineffectual, weak-willed, and incapable of coping with reality. Pretty much as soon as she joins the party, Littlepip shoves a gun at her and tells her to get over herself and get ready to start shooting, which she goes along with after a little bit of complaining. And as the story progresses, she very easily caves to whatever trigger-happy plan the other party members are concocting. Well, with one major exception: Saving Monterey Jack, a plan in which Littlepip specifically wanted to avoid killing anyone.

I keep hearing about how she calls them out on stuff, but the thing is that doesn’t really happen except on very rare occasions. As such, she raises a token objection that has pretty no impact after it is said, with the rest of the party moving on with what they were doing, taking nothing she says to heart. The two times when they've bothered to try her ideas about diplomacy it was fairly quickly shown to be a dumb idea and they abandoned it at the first opportunity. So far the only victory she’s had in that category amounts to one Steel Ranger. In the thirty chapters and hundreds of pages she has been a major character in this story, it has been hinted at maybe a handful of times that there is any merit to her views whatsoever. Versus the every single time that problems have been perfectly solved through the application of brutality. Totally gives me the impression of balance.

And while the other party members never learn anything from her, she certainly comes around to seeing things their way. Well, I guess Calamity gets better at shopping as a result of being around her. That’s something, I guess.

Sure, the story says that she’s good in that regard. I recall that bit in chapter 32 where Velvet and Calamity are giving the “why we’re in a relationship” talk and Calamity says “maybe there is something to your diplomacy” despite the fact that at no point has he shown that he gives any credence to that at all. That actually falls under an overarching problem the story has in regards to “show, don’t tell.”

So, in short: Yes she fucking is.

She’s also just very annoying in general. Personality-wise she's like Rarity, except completely unentertaining.

So then they go back to Maripony, Littlepip gives over the Black Book, the Goddess finds out about the memory orbs and is deeply confused and troubled. The Goddess goes over the Star Orb a lot and takes the Black Book. Then Littlepip gets a notice that Xenith has set them up the bomb. Shit gets real, the Goddess panics and orders her alicorns to flee, some dude from the Enclave shows up and wants to make a deal with the Goddess against Red Eye, and then kaboom.

Chapter ends on Homage delivering a broadcast corroborating the kaboom, before the Enclave interrupts her broadcast with the whole “we’re coming down to save you” bit.

I’m actually inclined to root for the Enclave here. I mean, they got Homage to shut up.

Comments

Unknownlight Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 26th 2013 at 3:29:21 PM
I definitely agree with you about having knowledge of Fallout before reading FO:E makes the fic not as good. My ideal order is that you should first read the story, and then play the games. That way you still (retroactively) get the references, but everything seems new and original to you when you first read the book.

Anyway, this post is more like a summation of a bunch of things you've already said in a bunch of different places at a bunch of different times, so I have nothing new to say. Props to you for compiling it all, though. You make a much better argument when your points are all together like this.
Pannic Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 26th 2013 at 11:06:00 PM
I'm repeating myself. Shit. That's a bad sign.
Sereg Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 12:12:44 AM
Eh, I still think that Velvet is portrayed too positively to be a strawman. Admittedly, you haven't reached the biggest case of her being proven right yet and it is a bit unbalanced, but oh well.

I think that the bigger issue is that few of their enemies can be reasoned with.

That said, your last line was funny.
kimba90 Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 7:55:19 AM
If you like random schmoes characters, than you definitely need to try Pink Eyes. That fic's full of them.

I think the problem with Fo E compared to the actual games happens only if you play with a character that good in speech. I for example always had characters with 7-8 levels in speech and/or carisma, with max. 6 or 7 in agility/resistance. Alas, Kkat must be one of those who gives more points to the last two, so while writing Fo E she reminded herself the way she usually completes missions (it helps that the fic is more about FO 3, the most gun-happy game of the series in my humble opinion). A pity, but what'cha gonna do.

Pip kinda reminds me of Shinji Hikari in some ways (especially in the beginning), only a little more.... vicious, if that's the right word. Her self-righteous narration can be read as way to excuse her actions. With time passing by (especially after Arbu) she becomes less of a vicious hero and more of a pragmatic one: she knows how her own actions makes her look more like the "villain of the piece" to the eyes of certain ponies, but if that's the only (well, the only sure) way to change things for the better, so be it. A way to see things I can't say that I agree with, but I can comprehend and maybe simpathize with it.

As for Velvet, her decision to a long with her happy-trigger companions can be read as a way to "close her eyes" in front of the horros of the wasteland and to the fact that she's unable to change something with her pacifist way, while still pretending to be one. Her semi freak-out at Arbu is the first sign that she can't take it anymore, and the Fluttershy's Cottage episode is when she completely lost it, it's her anger (both to wasteland and herself) finally exploding. You must give credit to her that, unlike Pip, she resisted until that point, she never spilled the blood of anypony (unless for self defense or to protect the others) and found the force to restrain herself until that far.

Lastly, I agree with you to the fact that Pip's companions almost never call her back because of her actions and/or never protest about a plan (except Steelhooves, and he's always treated in the wrong). It's only complain I can give to them, though.
Seraphem Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 7:29:50 AM
No, she, is, not. In no way is she even close to a strawman. At no point are her beleifs EVER treated as wrong simply for what they are. But rather they are wrong for surviving in the hell-hole that the Wastes are. And it is the fact that the world has changed to the point that is true which is treated as wrong, not Velvet's ideals. Li'lpip's whole goal is to do her best to bring Equestria back to a place where ponies like Velvet CAN hold those ideals and not have to sacrifice them to survive.

And I actually preferred going in knowing about Fallout, though it does spoil some stuff, it also gives you a lot more tension when you know about stuff like Maripony, The Enclave etc...

And, as pointed out many many times. Diplomacy doesn't work if the other side will just start shooting on sight. Pretty much every time they've gone up agaisnt a foe that diplomacy might work with, they've tried it. But those are very very few. raiders, not going to happen. Redeye, they did, and it worked to a point. The Goddess, yeah that ain't gonna do anything. (And yes it worked with The Master, but Li'lpip brought up the exact same point that defeated him, and she was able to counter it thanks to magic making it a null point.)

Okay, still hated reading this, but now it's just into the YMMV, less pointlessly ranty stuff again. I just cannot see how you see most of this that way.
kimba90 Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 8:19:39 AM
I think the point is that the story is usually not well balanced with her contents. For example, as Sereg said, Pip & co. meets too many adversaries where dipomacy is useless, while the games were usually more balanced in this way (except gun-happy FO 3 that is). This can make someone see the whole message as "diplomacy is useless, weapons and will-power are those that really brings peace", Hopefully that wasn't the message Kkat intended but some people like Pannic can read it this way (I did too, for a while: knowing however that Littlepip is not happy of it but is kinda forced doing this way, helped changing my mind).
Sereg Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 8:32:31 AM
I've yet to actually play Fallout. I don't get a lot of oppertunity to game and it seems a little out of my style.

Honestly, what I compared FOE to was Watership Down. That's the closest thing I had to it.

I actually do agree that Littlepip was too generic and attempts to make her deviate from genericness felt forced. I still saythat I think it would have been better for Littlepip to develop into the party rogue. It would feel more natural for her. And then we could have her solving some of her problems with sneakiness rather than violence. And then Velvet could actually have used her abilities to actually function as the face. Actually, with Velvet treated as the leader rather than Littlepip by those outside the group, that would not only be more interesting, but would solve a lot of issues mentioned here.
Seraphem Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 10:41:27 AM
And again, the very fact that so few opponents are capable of being reasoned with, means you can't complain if somepony doesn't try talking more. When for 90% of the enemies, all that does is give them more time to line up their shot.

And at some point, you have to stop getting hung up on how it was in the game. This isn't that world, so failing it for not being such, when it stays internally consistent and the entire setting makes sense in and of itself. It's just ludicrous.

And I really can't argue with the whole "Li'lpip was generic and boring" part, becuase I don't even see it enough to know how to compare anything to it.
Sereg Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 11:30:57 AM
And here I agree with Seraphem. I don't like FOE because of how similar it is to MLP canon. I like it because it made sense internally and gave an explanation of how that world could result from the world we knew and loved in a way that celebrated that old world.

Of course, I'm biased due to my lack of knowledge of Fallout.

As for Littlepip's genericness. It actually was less the genericness itself and more something related to it. The fact that it looks like she was less a naturl character (like the aforementioned random people) and more a blank slate modified for the purposes of the fic. I'm sure that kkat didn't do it this way (at least on purpose), but at times, especally early on, it looks like:

Okay, my character is a pony because they're the star of the show. We can't alienate people though, so let's avoid description. But let's make her small to showcase her vulnerability and cuteness. She has to be female based on the show, but mst fans prefer woman, so let's make her an oversexed lesbian for fanservice. And let's play it for comedy to. She has to dislike anything different to up the contrast and the drama and to drive her o be the hero. And she's a PC, so let's make her an intlligent lockpick kleptomaniac. She has to be a unicorn as they're the most popular O Cs and Twilight is a unicorn but no spells as that alienates some people when she's good at stuff they're not. etc.

Then, despite ending up with a character who seemed to start off as inteligent and sneaky, she starts heady more and more down the road of the fronline fighter, which most of her party has well covered already. Yet she becomes their leader. And the entire wasteland praises her despite the fact that beyond leading, what she does is done better by Calamity and Steel Hooves anyway.

THIS is why I say that Littlepip would have made a better rogure and Velvet could have been the Stabe dweller. Though, of course, that would have been even LESS like Fallout. Because it wouldn't be a PC and her team, but a more equal group working together.
kimba90 Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 3:40:35 PM
@Seraphem And again, the very fact that so few opponents are capable of being reasoned with, means you can't complain if somepony doesn't try talking more

I agree, it's not fault of the characters, more like fault of the story that doesn't give them something to deal more diplomatically :P.

This isn't that world, so failing it for not being such, when it stays internally consistent and the entire setting makes sense in and of itself. It's just ludicrous.

Really, that world have lot's of things in common with the atomic wasteland; if you take away the ponies and the magic (oh, and taint too :P) all that remain is a Fallout game made fic, more or less.

@Sereg Honestly, what I compared FOE to was Watership Down. That's the closest thing I had to it.

Uh, curious comparison there. A saw the movie of it so many times when I was a kid (yes, as a kid. No comment about it, please).

As for Littlepip, I was never I never found her genericness as negative. I like characters with the Everyman appeal, and she have both in personality and (fanon) design. Honestly, is much more hard making a generic and interesting main character that one with some sort of appeal.

And yeah, Velevet main problem is that she's too much underused (hell, even her medical skills are rarely touched), though instead of an actual leader I would've prefer to see her taking the Lancer role instead of Calamity and Steelhooves. She would've been more active as Pip conscience that way.

Unknownlight Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 27th 2013 at 10:55:50 PM
"THIS is why I say that Littlepip would have made a better rogure and Velvet could have been the Stabe dweller."

...This idea intrigues me. Very, very much.
Sereg Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 28th 2013 at 1:13:56 AM
@kimba: As I said, it's less her genericness (though everymen don't appeal to me much) and more that the parts of her that aren't generic feel tacked on and artificial to the point that they don't mesh with each other (and the more generic parts of her) well.

@Unknownlight: Thank you.
kimba90 Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 28th 2013 at 4:24:57 AM
@Sereg Well, that can be read as he hidden character expoding with fury after being suppressed all that long (again, kinda like Shinji. After all, it's well known that calm people when exploding, they do it with the violence of than H bomb (hell, Flutterdhy's a clear example). but I agree, that too should've been more balanced.
Sereg Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 29th 2013 at 8:47:54 AM
@kimba: Not what I mean. I mean that she seems like a list of traits rather than an organically grown chracter at times. Especially near the begining. Her exploding with fury isn't the problem. The fact that her traits don't interact with each other well is.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 29th 2013 at 9:31:59 AM
I agree, it's not fault of the characters, more like fault of the story that doesn't give them something to deal more diplomatically :P.

It's the story's (and by extension, the author's) job to set up situations that show what a character is made of, though. Regardless of intent, the onus is on the author to mold the story and if the result is that Velvet and her diplomacy come off as completely ineffectual for the "wrong" reasons, well, that's too bad.
kimba90 Since: Dec, 1969
Jan 31st 2013 at 2:52:34 PM
@Sereg Uh, never saw her that way before. I agree that she isn't very organic as a character at the beginning, but she does get better in this sense as the story progress.
Pannic Since: Dec, 1969
Feb 1st 2013 at 8:53:48 PM
The thing is, the Fallout games were never exactly on the same level as Deus Ex or Planescape: Torment when it came to being able to solve every conflict non-violently (at least if you wanted the non-shitty endings), but the series, for the most part, did allow you to roll your character as a smooth-talking diplomat, and many of the major conflicts could be solved through such means.

Let's take, for example, the Master, John Henry Eden, and Augustus Autumn. These characters were the inspiration for, respectively, the Goddess, Red Eye (granted he's a composite of numerous characters, but Eden is probably the biggest, or at least the most flagrantly copied), and Autumn Leaf. All three of them could be neutralized through diplomatic. And the last two were in Fallout 3, the one that pretty much forces combat on you.

I think it's a pretty notable departure - I mean, the manual for the first game has a list of all the player character skills, and next to Speech and Barter it has big asterisks and a footnote basically saying "pick these if you want to play a diplomatic character." There's even a character trait in 1, 2, and New Vegas you can pick called "Good Natured," which lowers your combat skills but raises your diplomatic and medicine skills. The Black Isle legacy actually has a bit of a history with this. For example, one of the main villains in Knights of the Old Republic II is pretty much immortal and the only way to defeat him is to convince him to stop holding onto life, and you can make some Persuade checks to weaken his resolve (and lower his stats). And now come this fic, where diplomacy is consistently portrayed as being dumb and useless.

I guess I've just gotten sick of shitty media that trumpets upon me the moral that violence will solve all our problems, and that wanting to do otherwise is fucking stupid. It's been chucked at me by His Dark Materials, and The Inheritance Cycle, and most hilariously and hypocritically from James Cameron's Avatar. I suppose that Fallout: Equestria isn't as bad as those, but when you consider that the original games didn't really have the aforementioned moral and the fic does... Also, I honestly find that Velvet's presence actually makes it worse, because it's like the story is hammering "oh, you don't want another boring action scene? Well fuck you."

Back onto the subject of Prissy Whine, I actually really wanted to like her. Hell, she's probably the only member of Team Protagonist that I come close to feeling things resembling empathy towards. But then the story didn't really give me anything to like. When I finished chapter 7, in which Velvet Remedy was introduced, I went "so you guys swear she isn't an annoying strawman?" And the response I got back was one of "she isn't." Then upon reading chapter 8 I find her being told to take a gun and suck it up, and her first killing of a pony played for laughs.

You can say that Velvet is portrayed positively, but here's the thing: when you have a character who is consistently set up by the story to be proven wrong (which she is), that is pretty much the definition of a strawman. And now, thirty chapters after her introduction, the story has still given me fairly little reason to believe otherwise. Also, as I have mentioned, I find her kind of annoying.
Sereg Since: Dec, 1969
Feb 2nd 2013 at 12:04:38 AM
Velvet will eventually be shown to have been right on previous occasions. And I found it rather satisfying. Is it imbalanced against her? Yes. But I'm taking the story as it's presented to me. I don't compare to Fallout because I've never played it. I knew bascally nothing about it when I read the fic. Basically still do. But, while I was irritated by the For The Evulz of most of the early antagonists,I couldn't deny that violence was the only response appropriate against them. By the time they got to actually decent antagonists, that was the MO the team was familiar with. Was that a fault in the story? Yeah. But I can't blame the protagonists for that.
kimba90 Since: Dec, 1969
Feb 2nd 2013 at 5:36:24 PM
@Pannic I mostly agree here, but keep in mind two things:

-First, the story is mostly FO 3: yeah it does have quite many things taken from other games, but the big picture it's still mostly inspired by that game. Sure Kkat could've tried to change a little the source material, but apparently she instead choose to remain mostly faithful to it.

-Second, it also depends on how Kkat played the game series. Diplomatic and sneaky options, while still there, are only options at the end and it's possibly to complete the game while killing everyone, which is maybe what Kkat (and definetely most people) did. Granted, I always preferred to have characters that were good in both speech/carisma and guns of one or two types, instead of being just gun-happy Rambos, but I suspect that the latter is how most players made their characters.

I'm also sick of seying many medias (especially movies and videogames) that shows action and violence as the only option, but as for this fic I honestly stopped caring too much about this and now I mostly analyze other things in it (and some of them are very good, thankfully). However, about the "democratic and pacifistic ways sucks" thing, I think that's not what Kkat had in mind when writing this: I know because, unlike many others of those movies and vifeogames centered on violence, the fic acknowledges the fact that it's wrong. Sure, the times this happens are few compared to those of mindless action (and they happened only much later in the story) but I'd say it's still something compared to those other works :P.

Pannic Since: Dec, 1969
Feb 12th 2013 at 5:05:40 PM
@Sereg You'll have to forgive me if I'm not particularly convinced by claims of "it gets better later" at this point.
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