All Comments

All Comments
Valiona's Stalker Diary of The Stalking Zuko Series
The word of dialogue. Much of this, at least so far, appears to be Katara tells us about the conversations she had, rather than showing them herself, not unlike what I do in this life blog,http://gks.com.ua/ albeit with a different voice . This might be something I feel sorry for writers, but it can also be useful when displaying the dialogue from the perspective of the characters, as well as some things about it from their point of view- their response that they consider important, how they interpret the words and actions of others , and so on.
Sergpro
noted author the next chapter. The author contrasts Zuko and Toph relationship with their stalkers, which is a nice touch. http://savoy.com.ru/ <a href="http://savoy.com.ru">одежда оптом</a>
Sergpro
I'm really enjoying this series just as much as the Team 8 one.
32ndfreeze
I'm glad to hear that. I'm progressing through Not Stalking Zuko at the moment.
Valiona
The Title is a The World Ends With You Reference, correct?
SaintDeltora
Saint Deltora,

You're correct. I chose it because of the "f word" that isn't quite what you expect it to be. For Eiji "The Prince" Oji, it's "fabulous", but for Katara, it's "forgiveness."

I also made various other references to other works in my titles of my other entries.
Valiona
In general, it was beautifully nuanced treatment of gender equality, which correspond to what we know about the series and did not go into preaching against sexism. http://marafett.com.ua/ [url=http://marafett.com.ua/]пошив женской одежды[/url]
Sergpro
The maternal bond thing really annoys me a lot in fanfiction. I really wish authors would stop using it. I mean sure break up Aang and Katara in order to get other pairings. Just don't use something that doesn't not exist. Plenty of other methods would work much better.
32ndfreeze
I agree; the Die for Our Ship page for Avatar notes that the age gap between Aang and Katara(a mere two years) is the same as the gap between Katara and Zuko). On the other hand, it's perhaps a tempting solution to retcon or explain away romantic feelings, which is a more gradual and easier task than creating an incident major enough to break up a canon pairing.

I do think that this might have been a better fic if it had started from the beginning and given Aang and Katara a platonic relationship; perhaps in an installment called "Stalked By Zuko".
Valiona
That is always one real flaw i have found with any fic's that start from a certain point in canon rather than from the beginning of the series.

That the writer whether intentionally or not contradict, ignore or bash canon material of certain characters, events, background etc.

Which for me can lower the quality of their work, it's up to the author how, when and where they start their fic, and what they write about. But i think a good writer respects the canon material, even if they think it is bad, or could be better and uses it in a way that shows their attention to detail on the series they are writing. But still allowing them to make their mark with their own writing.
romancechina88
romancechina88,

I agree that respect for canon material is of the utmost importance. The problem I have with the Hate Fic genre (or even a Deconstruction Fic taken too far) is that it tends to read like more of a list of the author's grievances with canon, than an actual story, making such fics fail as stories in their own right, much less fanfics.

The author tends to occasionally correct certain things that she likely perceives as mistakes on the part of canon characters, such as having Aang try to learn healing (which seems to be a more involved and specialized form of training than offensive waterbending), or trying to break him of his predilection for airbending. Those aren't as major, but they are fairly noticeable, even without the author's notes pointing them out, and does make this series read like a Fix Fic at times.

Ultimately, for me, the most important thing is to remember that your fanfics are derived from canon, and because your fanfics can't exist without them, they should respect the source material.
Valiona
I really like how you have categorized character bashing. After thinking about it a little I would estimate at least 90%+ of fanfics that bash follow one of those two criteria.
32ndfreeze
32ndfreeze,

Out of curiosity, which of the two forms do you think is more common?
Valiona
This is another of one of the potential drawback's of Fanfiction. Writers who take what we see onscreen, or spectate and assume that some things could have happened off screen to benefit what they are writing about.

I can understand why some people do this, after all it's a fun part of writing and it also can help to make your work attract the audience who like that sort of stuff.

But sometimes I have to wonder if it really is something that writers ought not to do.

I'm aware of how stubborn some people can get when shipping two people, and it's fine to like a certain pairing, but if your going to write about one. That canon makes it hard to feel it could possibly happen, or there was little to no evidence of it, or it's been contradicted or counteracted.

Then I feel it can drag the quality of a fic down, in this case this fic suffers at times because of the authors attempts in bringing about Zutara to fruition. Which is a bit of a shame I think.

Though I'm sure the author enjoyed writing it the way she did, and the Zutara audience loved it as well, which at the end of the day would matter most.

But overall I think it is a shame how some authors at times will go to great lengths just to prove their pairing is the one and only.

That's just my opinion, and one that can easily be countered.
romancechina88
romancechina88,

I largely agree with this. Of course, in my own fan works, I do apply my own interpretations, albeit not necessarily to support a certain goal, but largely to expand on what isn't covered in canon, so I can understand how and why people draw conclusions about what happened offscreen. I try to make sure that my interpretations are natural, though, and that those who disagree with them can at least see where I'm coming from.

I also do have to wonder how Zutara would have gone if it were canon, with Katara forgiving Zuko two episodes before the Grand Finale. Perhaps this fic's expanding on events is in large part necessary to enable Zutara to happen.
Valiona
Excuse the late comment, i have had a very busy week and a half, leaving no time for tvtropes activties.

It's very understandable as to why you decided to take a break, there's no point in doing a liveblog on something that annoys you and makes you feel angry. It was around this point i stopped reading the fic as well, due to feeling tha author was just spinning things round just because they wanted their own verison of Avatar. I respect that and that's their prerogative. But the way it has been excuted here leaves something to be desired i feel.

Just the level of bashing of Aang is something i find most distaseful, it just isn't needed. It's like when fans of code geass bash Suzaku because they like lelouch more, even though both are just as flawed as each other. Or when someone overlooks any positives of a character just because they are a threat to their OTP, it's that side of fanfiction and shipping that can ruin reading or watching anything for me. It's that side of Avatar fandom i feel at times has given avatar fandom bad rep in places.

I remember when korra first came out, some zealous fans bashed asami just because she was a love rival to korra, that was it. Not anything to do with her as a character etc, just because she was another girl who was there. It just ain't worth dicussing how irrational stuff like that is i feel.

Hope to see you liveblog again soon. I will get my next chapter of Katawa Shoujo up soon.

romancechina88
I find it unfortunate that when favoring one pairing over another (e.g. Kataang and Maiko vs. Zutara), or when favoring one character in a clash of two sides that isn't entirely black and white (e.g. Lelouch vs. Suzaku), fans have no regard for the other one they chose, just like how the author said, early on, that she doesn't think much of Kataang and Maiko, even if Zutara wasn't around. By contrast, I think the Zutara is quite well done in this fic, but I'd have preferred it if, among other things, Aang had quietly given up on his feelings for Katara after the balcony scene, and rooted for her to get together with Zuko.

At the moment, I'm working on a liveblog for How I Became Yours. The character derailment's more severe there, but given the quality (or lack thereof), it's easier to not take seriously. Of course, even in spite of all that, maybe Jackie Diaz was on to something in skipping Step 1 and having Aang get together with Toph.
Valiona
Ah yes the main problem of any romance that gets dragged out too long, keeping it going without resolve. Which for me is the laziest thing a writer can do I feel when it comes to romance. This I feel take anything interesting out of it, and for me a romance that isn't interesting just wastes time all round and that is the one thing I find hard to accept in any story in any fiction.
romancechina88
romancechina88,

I agree. Setting up a couple too quickly seems like a copout, but dragging it out too long makes it feel like prolonging it. While they seem to be opposite approaches, both seem to be cases of putting story convenience over quality or believability, and should be avoided.

I checked the Fanfic Recs entry for this fic, and it noted that "Not Stalking Zuko has a lot of boring and skippable filler before Sozin's Comet finally starts." I have to wonder why authors would include "filler" (apart from series like Naruto, who do it to avoid Overtook the Manga), since I'm reminded of an Elmore Leonard quote I heard in a puzzle I did in the US Airways magazine, in which he says that he leaves out the parts readers tend to skip.
Valiona
Yep 100% agree with the above paragraph on romances.

Lots of reasons why some authors do fillers, sometimes they ain't bad and can be good, when they are bad, oh boy they can be hell to go through, naruto 80 episodes of it is mostly the latter, though there were one or two good arc's I felt stuck in them, namely the mizuki strikes back and anko seas arc, just for expanding a little bit on side characters and as well on orchimaru's operations in places as well.
romancechina88
romancechina88,

My favorite Naruto filler arc was the Bikochuu arc, because of the focus on and development for Hinata. Filler can be annoying to go through when you're watching the episodes for the first time, but if you're catching up, it's easy to skip them without missing much.
Valiona
This chapter for me was mixed as well (started reading again since I might as well finish it), especially on Aang, while I still hate the bashing he gets in the fic, some of the points do to some degree touch what I have mixed feelings for at times with the show when it comes to some of the events around Aang.

Mostly the finale with the energy bending. Since while I never expected Aang to kill Ozai, I feel the finale didn't do a very good job of structuring aang's dilemma of killing him, since it feels his discussion with the other avatars are mainly him wanting someone to tell him he doesn't have to consider killing Ozai, since he didn't seem to have any plan or idea of what he was going to do to not kill him.

Which Yangchen called him out on to an extent, also the way he met the lion turtle afterwards and what to me (not sure to other people) felt like Aang got given a solution (given since Aang didn't find it or learn it I feel) to his problem and didn't have to put his own needs aside. Again the idea of Aang not killing Ozai and the energybending in general isn't what annoyed me, just the execution and structure and pacing of it wasn't done well I thought. It just made Aang look selfish to some people and he got away with it.

It didn't help that overall the Aang and Ozai fight was the weakest bit of the finale, since the two I feel were the weakest and least interesting characters on their side (Aang isn't a bad character, just not as interesting as Zuko and others to me) Ozai being somewhat of a genericdoomsdayvillain when compared to other villains (expect unaloq and Vaatu from Korra season two who were worse). Which helped in my somewhat less than positive opinion of their fight. I felt it was boring as well and not a lot of tension despite it being built up throughout the series.

The ocean beast thing, that one overall is something I'm just not sure what to think of, it seemed for the most part to be the ocean sprit, but since Aang seemed to accept bonding with it beforehand, you have to wonder if he had any idea of what the sprit would do. Plus the way it was done in the finale was very quick and came out of nowhere for the most part. So I'm neutral on that event.

But that's still no reason to bash Aang the way this fic does at times.

The energybending not being built up very much (or in a way that I felt it should have been, I am a person with opinionated views) didn't help either.

interesting bit on the mooks, reminds me of the Clerks scene where Randall and Dante argue about contractors on the second death star and the roofer comes in how he avoided death by passing on a mob house job, and the guy says in a lot of ways the mooks on the second death star knew the risks and it's the own fault they got killed, which in some ways is fair, since while doing jobs like that for your family etc. is sympathetic to a degree, knowing the risks and high chance of death make them somewhat responsible for their own death.

As for Zuko's crew stuff. I did wonder what happened to them, though I never felt Zuko was close to them really, yeah he put them first at times, but he was distant from them and some like lee didn't like him because of Zuko's somewhat stubborn and emo attitude during season one, and the show always kept that in mind wit zuko during it. Reminding us why yes Zuko's circumstance is sad and tragic, he brings some of it on himself.

I never got why some take different view of Zhao not taking Zuko's hand, I always felt it was clear Zhao did it out of pride and spite, since the guy had no real redeeming traits at all, and really not much character to him for most of season one, so it makes it a little difficult for me to believe he didn't take Zuko's hand for any reason but his own selfish ones (though I felt Jason Issac did a fab job voicing him, but that's because I'm fond of him in general). But again that's just me and my views.

Katara stuff was something that caught my attention as well... katara has become one of those characters of avatar I have become very mixed on each time I watch the show, I think she is a good character for the most part, there are times I felt the show let her get away with some pretty mean comments like saying Sokka didn't love their mother as much as she did, some of the vents of the painted lady (though that episode in general is something of an issue for some anyway,) as well as some of the writing for her at times that can get on some peoples nerves (her feud with paaku, while yes the guy is a jerk and sexist, the way it got written and turned out felt soapbox saddie and anivllous to me, but ymmv on that), along with how some of her power up was a little bit too advanced at times considering her water bending at the start of the show. But her character development throughout the show (especially in southern raider and the runaway) and as well being well rounded and depth character is what I liked watching about her.

Great review again as always. Some interesting and smart points made, I look forward to reading future chapter blogs.
romancechina88
romancechina88,

Regarding Aang's struggling with the question of whether to kill Ozai, I think he was searching for a solution that enabled him to defeat Ozai without killing him. But in the end, he found a new solution that none of his predecessors had considered, which fits ATLA's message more than the author's intention of having the rest of the cast berate Aang for his decision.

I do agree that Ozai is a somewhat less interesting villain than some of the others. My favorite is probably Amon from the first season of Legend of Korra.

Clerks has an interesting perspective on mooks, and it's nice that it doesn't gloss over their being responsible for their actions.

I agree that Zuko wasn't that close to his crew. In the end, though, "The Storm", in both its past and present segments, shows that Zuko, in Season 1 and 2, is bitter and jaded, but he does care for others. He'd probably be sad to hear that they died, but not feel such an overwhelming desire to be able to properly mourn them.

As for my personal opinion on Zhao, I think it was a combination of not wanting to live with the shame of his failure and not wanting to be saved by the kid he hated so much.

That's a good point about Katara, which is why I liked that the fic had her regret what she said to Sokka.
Valiona
fair points on Aang, though in always going to feel it the exaction of it was very flawed and undermined his victory over Ozai, but not going to dwell on it.

Yeah Amon for me has been the best villain they have done so far (so much I was planning in my code geass fic to do a character influenced by him, Steve Blum I felt did a brilliant as Amon, one of the best in the business I feel the man is). Though Zaheer in season three was done well I thought.

Yeah I agree on your point on Zhao, that's generally what I feel his decision on that issue was.
romancechina88
Sorry it's been a while since I commented on your blog. Many stuff are going on in my personal life (moving house still on-going, death of family member, work etc.)

Quite a few things in this chapter, mainly on Zuko. I'm ot sure where the author got the idea that Zuko had mementos of his mother on his ship, since his room was pretty Spartan and only had a few things, none that looked like sentimental items at all, plus the writers would have shown something if he had it, since they tend to put importance on stuff like that when it ties into the plot.

The whole Ursa and Iroh thing has some basis, since the two would probably had a decent chance of getting along, though I doubt love was one of those connections, since Iroh obviously had another woman in his life at some point that resulted in his son being born. Though who like a lot of Iroh's life is left a mystery, same with a lot of the fire nation families past and issues.

In fact part of Atlas strength at times I felt was due to the huge ambiguity that hung over Zuko's family. That the Search kind of messed up on I feel mainly on how the background of Ursa and Ozai got written, along with Azula actually telling the truth on Azulon, which I felt was disappointing since it felt like it contradicts Zuko's Azula always lies mantra. Overall I think the whole Ursa question as best left unanswered, in fact I think nick for some reason denied Brian and Mike a movie to answer that question. Why I have no idea, it's like nick or someone there has it in for this series and Korra as a whole.

Though that isn't on Mike or Brian since neither of them or Zuko's alone writers worked on the comic's, it was someone else, whom I believe nick hired to do, so nick took that part out of Brian and Mike's hands overall. Which I wonder how they feel at that and how Nick as a whole goes out of it's way to push their show to the side at times, not all the time as the amount of money and time they have allowed them to do their series, but me being a business person really have to question some of Nick's logic at times in terms of how they treat one of their money making series, Personal egos and moral guardians may have a influence as well.

romancechina88
Sorry to hear about the death in the family and other things happening in your life.

It would have been a nice opportunity for a subtle Chekhov's Gun if they had a memento from Ursa on the ship. That's why I find it had to believe that the mementos were there and we didn't know about them.

Regarding Zuko's belief that "Azula always lies," I found that he had more than a little reason to believe that, and he certainly wanted to believe that, but it dawned on him that it wasn't the case this time.
Valiona
Interesting analysis as always form you, at least you got something out of reading the fic, getting you to look at how you do writing yourself, sometimes a good way of improving your own writing is to read something that goes against what you think or feel at times, as well as bad stuff so that you can get a feel of how to write a character, and a series as a whole.

Quick question what would be your next series to liveblog? Any Katawa Shoujo fic's by any chance. Since there is quite a few out there that would make for interesting analysis by you, Sisterhood being one since it just recently expanded it's length, quite a good read I would say myself of my least favourite KS route (though I think it is great, and Hanako is written well, she just didn't grab my interest in say Lilly and Shizune did), Sisterhood explores Lilly and her family very well (though I felt Hisao got side-lined a bit and some h scenes are way too long and too much detail for my tastes).

Another suggestion would be either the Rika fic (that one is quite different form the others I have read) or one that involves post Lilly stuff (Confession and a whole lilly-hisao universe of fic's by Fluffand Crunch).

There's a few more I have on my list to read, and I do plan to continue my liveblog on KS soon, just need to finish moving house first.

I will continue to follow whichever liveblog you do next.
romancechina88
romancechina88,

I'm considering a much shorter work, as well as possibly one that's more visually oriented. One downside to doing this is that Katara is already summarizing events in one sense, whereas with a comic, like in How I Became Yours, I can comment more on the visuals.

I tend to like works that stick out in my mind in some way, with something that bugs me enough to comment on. The Rika fic was fairly good, and an ambitious effort at doing a route for one of the fake characters, but it didn't stand out all that much in my mind.
Valiona
I'm impressed that you're going through the chapters so quick. I agree with you completely on the character points. Its amazing how in her attempt to fix the show, she makes Aang into a moron, and Katara and Zuko into jerks.

Shadowgate
Shadowgate,

Those are some good points about the ramifications of the author's alterations to change Canon. Arguably, however, Aang being "a moron," is more of a result of the author not quite getting some of the nuances of his character, and/or disagreeing with some of the decisions that he makes. In any case, you can see that his character isn't treated with the same attention and depth as the others, and it often shows.

Part of the reason why I was able to get through it more quickly was because I'd been working ahead a little, and drew upon that reserve. I'm getting back to doing the liveblog, though.
Valiona

Shadowgate
Shadowgate

For some reason I cannot see your comment but thank you for leaving it because it is nice to see people are reading

Sorry for the lack of punctuation but I found that comments on liveblogs seem to disappear and I suspect that is the cause
Valiona

Shadowgate

SpaceOutlaw
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_comments.php?lb_id=14021731280B33552200