All Comments
Pannic Reads Stuff He Hates
Introduction
just once more, not liking it is fine, YMMV and all, but please don't insult the people that do like it by saying it doesn't deserve the praise or it's overhyped, all that means is you think your idea of what's 'good' is better then theirs
Seraphem
Lots of things get called overhyped - Halo, Harry Potter, Final Fantasy, etc. These are not taken to be insults towards people who like these things. I simply think that the story, for how praised it is, has a number of what I think are noticeable problems.
Pannic
Not saying it's perfect, but on the whole the good parts far outweigh the bad.
Seraphem
If you're interested, the First two Fallout games are available through in GOG.com . They're pretty different from latest installements ( classic RPG's in Baldur's Gate style, rather than sandbox shooters with RPG elements), but some elements of the fic were took right from there (like the Goddess, called The Master in the game).
kimba90
Our Hero
It's not really Awesomeness By Analysis, just a bit of common sense, and yes it varies just like ANYONE can at times be blind to the blinding obvious. and ok your complaints about the beginning are all valid, and if kkat ever went through and gave it a second draft it would definitely help the beginning.
Seraphem
Point taken.
Pannic
It's just one of the flaws inherent about writing fan fics by the chapter instead of all as one story, as you grow in talent and figure out your voice, your unable to go back and redo the earlier chapter to match your improvements.

Well you can but then you end up like Through The Eyes Of Another Pony
Seraphem
Shooty-Shooty
Remember that character revelation is just as important as character development. The feelings don't have to be new changes as long as they tell us something about her.
Sereg
I got the impression that she was on auto pilot during the slaughter at the library
thanotosomega
Hat Accent
I do have to agree that Pip is pretty wishy-washy from a character perspective. She gets called out on it, but it always seems like they cal out the unimportant/necessary to survival hypocrisies rather than the casually avoidable ones.

A random detail that you forgot/missed that makes the beginning of the chapter make more sense is that the doctor mixed the medicine with booze, so Pip was drunk for that whole scene. It's still pretty silly, but at least it's not unexplained.
PerpetualLurker
yeah, giving the characters other names really doesn't help you seem like your not trying to just make fun of it anyway you can. Your taking away the character and replacing it with your version that has all the of what you perceive to be the negative traits brought out and solidified while blocking the balancing parts.
Seraphem
Yes, Litttlepip has some hypocricy issues, but that's not an invalid character trait and she never gets particulrly bad abou it. Personally, I like Littlepip, but prefer her allies.
Sereg
I don't think her hypocrisies are addressed very well. In any case, I feel a number of the "balancing" parts in regards to characterization just make her come off as inconsistent at best and full of crap at worst.
Pannic
who said they had to be addressed? not every flaw every person ever has always gets addressed publicly.
Seraphem
Note i like this fic as both a Fallout fan and a brony but you sir are hilarious so i'm not gonna hate i'm just going to enjoy this
thanotosomega
The Search for Prissy Whine
No it's not inconsistent, she is those things, but she SUCKS at coming up with plans ahead of time normaly. But she's good at just winging it. Which is great becuase there are so many random things that can go wrong, any plan she makes is sure to get FUBAR'd at some point, so better to just go in with a general idea and adapt.

Also, no the STORY never tries to tell you to feel anything, it is all how Lil'pip feels about it, and yeah could she just ignore it like everyother action hero, yeah, or hey people can have conflicting emotions and thoughts about stuff, and it's never said we're supposed to see Lil'pip as pefect, quite the opposite.
Seraphem
ook but mean there. thing is Kkat doesn't write Lil'pip like a action hero, or any other character archetype, she just tries to show what an ordinary pony would be like, and yeah there's unnoticed hypocrisies, little lapses in uudgemnt, conflicting emotions and thoughts, but all that does is make Lil'pip seem more real, not just "Our Hero" which is why ading on your own little names for the characters is a bad idea, you can get cought up in your own label for them and fail to see the full picture past that.
Seraphem
Sometimes I feel that it doesn't go towards making the character feel more "real" and that a lot of things just seem like they're contrived, or the story is trying to have it both ways or she's just being a dick. I mean, okay, I can get the drug addiction thing and that driving her to steal from an orphan. It's a big dick move, but it's believable on account of her character flaw (This won't stop me from making fun of it, because "hero steals from orphans" is honestly just too good to pass up. Please, you gotta let me have some fun with this).

But then you have things like her cowing Velvet Remedy into helping her murder someone. That bit there really bugs me in particular and if I continue this liveblog I'll go a bit more in-detail when I get there.
Pannic
"She's generally short, to the point, and snarky. Yet in the narration she's kinda waxing poetical - somehow I can't see these descriptions and stuff in her actual dialogue, which makes me wonder why this story needs to be in first-person."

This makes FAR more sense once you reach the end, where you find out why Littlepip is telling us this.

"But we have both Appleloosa and New Appleloosa"

You'll be amazed at how common this is IRL. I'm talking multiple suburbs within the same city here.

"but the problem is that Our Hero has been established as a character who works on being resourceful and using her intelligence, for example the when she talks Monterey Jack our of robbing her. Now she apparently resorts to the Indy Ploy. Just seems inconsistent to me. "

Not to me. She never planned her conversation with Montery Jack. She just winged it.

Luke Skywalker was a rebel and Neo was an anti-hero. Both very different types of characters. I appreciatd Littlepip's concern.

Personally I was furious with Littlepip about Arbu. I've never been angrier with her. I was entirely on Calamity's side there.

"This is my problem with the melodramatic narration. Like mentioned earlier, a first-person narration should generally be to get us in the character's head and really show us how they feel, but there are a number of points where it seems like it's the author telling the reader how to feel."

Again, makes sense when you realise that the entire story is Littlepip's propoganda. Good intentioned propoganda that I agree she was right to do, but still.

"Yep. This is our new character, the token straw pacifist. "

People are supposed to disagree with straw characters. I actually like Velvet a lot and agree with her often.

Sereg
and she was never intended as a straw anything, 'straw' something requires the author to intentiaonly be using her to prove a point and the what she supports is false. Yes her nature is rather Stupid Good, and it's made out that it's a bad thing for the wasteland, but ti's also made clear the very fact that she can't safely be as peaceful as she wants is the real issue.
Seraphem
LP isn't inconsistent. Pragmatic, definitely. She uses Indy Ploys when she doesn't know enough about the situation to make a real plan, but also has an amazing Batman/Memory-wipe Gambit later on that's just pure damn genius.

Arbu. Frickin Arbu. That's an easy one to get hung up on. Too much time was spent on the morality of LP's actions there.
sargecadet
There's a German City called "Neunitz" translatable "Newto(w)n" and "Neu-Neunitz" "New-Newto(w)n" there isn't a mile between the two.
theonebutcher
On an unrelated note...

"That book also made me hate elves"

Pure win here! Elves are so much of a Sue race there that I actually cheered hard when the Galbatorix's general offs the elven queen in the final book.
NTC3

CCPrime
So it's like that opening level on Battlefield 3?
WEEELLL...nah not going to rehash the whole unicorn magic debate we had over in lurker's, just go read the comments in last few of his chapters if you're interested

eh as to it being annoying, eh, that's just a YMMV issue

other then that, sorry if seemed i was ragging you overmuch, like i said in he thread, not asking you to like it, just try and be fair.
Seraphem
Well, I'll see. The next chapter wasn't as, well, I'll get to that in a bit.
Pannic
DANG ALL THE FOOLS WHO DENIED LESBIAN JOKES!!! you all just couldn't let things be and now us mellow folk have to pay the price
thanotosomega
Back to Boredom
she was never going to steal from her, nothing was going to be takin, and keep in mind, right now she's a bucking addict, yeah those are ALWAYS rational where there drugs are concerned.
Seraphem
In regards to the Ditzy/Derpy thing, this story was written before season 2. An absent minded pegasus named "Ditzy Doo" was mentioned in "Winter Wrap Up". Most FOE fans prefer to believe that her canon name is Ditzy and that Derpy is a nickname.

Nukes of evil.

LP gazing longingly at the Rari-statue. Yup. She's a perv.

At least it's an interesting (mostly) quest chain.
sargecadet
QUESTS
I like it
belajarforeximf
wonderful
belajarforeximf
An Interlude For Murder
Well, as far as random skeletons go, the Fallout games have random skeletons in people's houses too. In addition to this, you can kill a person literally one foot away from someone else and they won't notice if you have enough stealth and can lie your way out of it. Realism is not a big deal in that series.
sargecadet
Oh, I loved that chapter because of:"Do you think I would leave a plus five shotgun of Dragonslaying laying around?"
theonebutcher
And back up to speed
No that doesn't magically clear up the issue with NA.

and somepony can be naive about somethings, but sharp about others, she's only naive when it comes to the wasteland, she knows how to talk to and read ponies easily.
Seraphem
Agreed. It's fairly common to only be naive about some things.
Sereg
She's something called a social rogue. Oh, and the Videogame Logic is just what remains of Discord after someone shoved a "+5 Nuke of Lunaslaying" down his throat.
theonebutcher
Dead Guy
One thing that you should be aware of is that the alicorns are continually becoming more powerful. Killing one makes the others harder to kill as you'll see.
Sereg
not so much more powerful as smarter, as they have a group mind and so learn from the death's of each one, the same trick never works twice.
Seraphem
Other Stories!
I've haven't read either of these and now I don't want to :D Wow, are you being serious about these fics? Are the premises really that ridiculous? Huh. Well, I never read shipping and I guess this is why. I don't see why someone would think that taking two canon characters and slamming them together in a relationship is a good idea. Someone please prove me wrong.
sargecadet
btw, nice title change. Describes it perfectly XD
sargecadet
Well, admittedly there are some shipping fics that I like. My favorite would probably be "It's Always Sunny In Fillydelphia," which is an Applejack/Soarin' fic. It's actually pretty funny.
Pannic
Back to the original thing
Zebra armor? Racism? That isn't racism, that's SH being against a party-member wearing the barding of an enemy from a war that never really ended, that he "lived" through, that according to some parts of the fandom is still a belligerent fighting force. No, not really seeing the racism in that. He's racist in other parts but this one seems more pragmatic/justified in some ways.
sargecadet
Well, being against a party member wearing protection because of a centuries-old grudge isn't really something I'd call "pragmatic."
Pannic
I think he's going for something more along the lines of "wearing enemy armor is a bad idea because your allies might shoot you by accident."
JapaneseTeeth
That's a risk that's likely to run? Huh. Well, I'll have to read on.
Pannic
This chapter did get a bit awkward at points. But personally I like Littlepip. Not as much as her allies, but I still like her.

They didn't want Pinkie Pie investigating because they were traitors to Equestria, so Pinkie was in the right here.

And yeah, there are still some zebras around and Steel Hooves has understandable reasons for disliking them beyond what you've seen so far.
Sereg
1. it wasn't ass kissing, calamity just really feels that way, he's not trying to suck up.

2. the "flutterguy" quip wasn't in there just as a random meme, but for a hint at who Watcher is, since not many would even KNOW what Flutterguy sounded like or was.
Seraphem
Sincerity doesn't make it less annoying to see another character praising her.
Pannic
Still a difference between that and asskissing though, you know I'm all about the semantics :)
Seraphem
Grimderp, Lesbian Jokes
...and then they fuck.

No. Really.
RichReeders
"OH BOY I SURE TOTALLY MISSED THE RAPE STUFF FROM THE EARLIER CHAPTERS EEYUP"

Well, I'm the last person who wants to read about rape, but at least we're not seeing the act itself. And to pretend that it doesn't happen would be unrealistic.

I admit that you're right about the stupidity of the raiders. They're a little too For The Evulz for me. I far prefer the other conflicts of the fic. However, I know how incredibly evil people can be in real life, so maybe even I'm not being cynical enough. Raiders like these might not even make the news in my country. Though, as you said, the colt would have run or at least tried to shoot back in a realistic situation. However, I'd have shot the colt even if he was running. The fact that my country lets people get away with such actions is the reason that it's the rape capitol of the world and has one of the highest murder rates in the world. I don't care if they're a child.

"And. Now he's going to be executed... what. He's reintroduced immediately and now he's gonna be killed off... what? This is fucking stupid. "

This does serve a poin in Littlepip's character development.

"Monterey Jack: "Yeah, I'll totally blab even though I probably know this'll get me killed leaving my kids helpless. Something about 'corrupted virtues' and some sort of moral there." People do not act like this. "

Honestly, I could totally identify with Montery Jack there and can even see myself doing the same thing, even before the reveal of his additional motives.

Sereg
While I would take up your offer of The Walking Dead, I detest zombies and anything with them as a major backdrop is going to fall under "I don't give a fuck about this shit". :P

" This story doesn't seem to be able to go beyond "murder and loot" or "not murder and loot" and the answer is almost always "murder and loot." "Also, I'm a self-righteous hypocrite and I treat my friends like shit."

At least it's better than The Hunger Games, right? :P

CrimsonFlameKnight
Actually, I'd say The Hunger Games, at least the first book (haven't read either of the sequels), is a lot better than this fic. It does first-person narration a hell of a lot better, as it's used to illustrate the protagonist's personality - mainly, she's practically emotionally dead and is humanized through her interactions with the few characters she does care about, mainly Prim and Rue. She's very stoic, which has the bonus of her not throwing as much angst at the reader. Katniss isn't a likable character, but I don't think she's supposed to be. That's the key difference. The Hunger Games doesn't tell me that I'm supposed to admire her. It's made pretty clear that the whole "Girl on Fire" thing was a media ploy being spun by her dress designer.

Littlepip, on the other hand, is a vindictive, self-righteous twat, but the story assumes that I'm gonna root for her just... 'cause. But the thing is, I don't like this character, and the story's insistence that I admire her is grating. Her narration is also loaded with her commenting every time she's angry or horny or she has something to angst about.

Katniss also has a substantially lower murder count.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
"Katniss also has a substantially lower murder count."

Considering the entire premise of THG, I don't think that should be counted as a point in her favor.
CrimsonFlameKnight
Two More Things
I can honestly say that this blog entry made me lol.I completly agree with you on MLD. And wow, thinking about it, the protagonist really is freaking creepy.

Not even gonna comment on the first story you mentioned though. I'll have to check out Pretty In Pink soon.
marston
And now to continue
I actually identified with Montery Jack here. And his situation is actually more complicated than is currently apparent.

Again, Littlepip is trying to give a message. It makes sense that she's doing it this way later.

Actually, what she means is "fear of open spaces". (Yes, it does exist.)

I must admit that the start of Homage/Littlepip was ridiculous as you said. At least Velvet/Calamity had build up. And yes, I know couples like them.
Sereg
Not ever romance needs build up. Lik'pip /Homage it was basicly just two ponies that needed some other pony/wanted to be with another pony and figured why not. That they ended up being more or less good together was a bonus but the start was just need for ANY-pony to be with, plus reasons for Homage that you need to read 20.5 to really get and yes we had this debate in the thread already.
Seraphem
That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice it reads like something out of a porn.

Oh wait.
Pannic
Re-reading chapter 17 again, I do wish Kkat had waited a couple more chapters before having LP and Homage hook up, I thought their pre-couple interactions were really sweet and I wanted more build-up to when they finally became a couple. Doing that would have made the Yuri Fan in me just squee in pure delight.
CrimsonFlameKnight
And Getting Longer
I just picked up the story at the insistence of a friend. I don't have much to say about everything else, since I agree with a lot of the stuff you said here. The things I do disagree with are mostly subjective as well*. I enjoy stupidly lewd, disgusting and inappropriate jokes a lot more than most people, because I'm about as mature as a glass bottle of grape juice. I understand that the vast majority of people would just be horrified by the things I find funny.

On the other hand.

"Rarity totally isn't gay but she likes the kissing and Rainbow Dash continues and Rarity says she isn't gay again and Dash continues with "hey just because we have sex doesn't mean gay" YES IT DOES YOU IDIOTS."

That just comes off as kind of bigoted - it's narrow minded, or inaccurate at the very least. It's clearly possible for someone to be a closet bisexual, and it's also possible for someone to experiment and find out that they don't actually like the same sex very much. To put that into more context, you could be like the gayest person in the world and only have relations with people of the opposite sex, and you might never be attracted to any of the people you're dating or fucking. It happens.

I'm not sure why the same can't be true the other way around, unless you're specifically defining a "gay" person as "any person who has ever had consensual intercourse with another member of the same sex, ever". I mean, clearly that's a pretty gay act right there, but it doesn't mean that the person is necessarily gay, any more than screwing around with the opposite sex means you're a straight person.
Sessalisk
Not Much, Really
Again, the 'abusive' parts are mostly do to the drugs and addiction, which will be over soon.

Bag Of Holding and they know she likes to look nice. Plus there has already been occasions where Velvet looking the part of a performer/singer came in handy.

Practicality, they know having that might be the only thing that saves them at some point. And she gets less horrified as it goes, the initial shock was more that, shock, she simply wasn't expecting that effect, now that she knows what it can do she'll be ready for it and know what's going to happen if she uses it.

Yeah you can't really blame the radiation thing JUST on video games here, it's pretty much a stable of ALL media that anything made by radiation is healed/powered up by it, Godzilla, The Hulk, Super mutants, Ghouls, Nuclear Man. Yeah can't really lay that as a complaint against this story in particular when it's a standard of nearly all media.

And Steelhooves was never really actively trying to hide the fact he wasn't a ghoul from anypony except the guards in Tenpony Tower. He just avoided making a point of it.

That's just your opinion, it's an action story, that stuff is to be expected. Complaining about having action scenes in this kind of story is like complaining because you sat down to watch a horror movie and it had gore. Nothing about the scenes is a detriment to the story itself, it's simply not the type of scenes you personally like reading. Doens't make the story or the scenes bad or wrong.

Umm yeah I never had hooves reach out of the screen and hold me down, force my eyes open and read it, so, WTF are you talking about?

No more vindictive then average. You make it sound like she'll spend her life hunting and killing some pony that flipped her off once.

Except your going ahead and assuming that what you see as crossing a line is the same as the narrator/lil'pip

Self-appointed, cause yeah there's really somepony in charge that can appointed somepony to deal with all this crap. Everyone in the wastelands pretty much is "self-appointed" whatever the hell they do becuase there is no one higher then any other pony unless your a slave

Avenger, that's bad cause yeah there's really nothing that needs fixing. and as fucked up as the wasteland is, you cant chop down a tree without avenging SOMETHING, that happened at some point

The message that I have no idea how you getting? Yes it is portrayed as bad that the wasteland does this to ponies, breaks them, makes them do stuff ponies never should be forced to. but it's on the Wasteland and the circumstances that cuased it, not the ponies that end up that way out of neccesity.

because your reading the thoughts of a confused, scared, out of her element, still fairly young pony that had a sheltered isolated upbringing. Everything here is lil'pips thoughts, her experiences her perspective. It's what she is thinking, not a third person impartial narrative of what happened.

Seraphem
Because beautiful dresses are worth a fuckton of money due to scarcity? Because they boost her seduction&perform skills? Also the "Radiation" is not Nuclear radiation. Its necromancy designed to "Send Ponies Straight to Hell allá Spikes Letter-Sending Breath" and in lower doses "Turn Ponies into Flesh eating Zombies" who seems to be a recurring theme in Zebra-Attack-Spells. So: It's Dark Magic, not gamma rays. The Narrator is Littlepip After Character Development and LP is Unlikable, because she is a druggy.
theonebutcher
"And thus, we have passed the point where the main character " the sentence ends here, I guess you let it pass.
RN452
Oh, Shut Up
Not sure how you got it being Applesnack spying on the CMC, don't remember it ever being mentioned it was him, and he'd have no reason to.

No it wasn't derailment, what Fluttershy did makes perfect sense for her to do. Wasn't smart, but makes sense.

Well yeah, but the shariff is just scum anyway. It was just a lucky break that killing the ghoul encampment turned out for the best. He only did it because, 'ghouls need a killin'

Not to nag, but again, using "" when not quoting what is in the "" word for word, is kind of wrong. And I really doubt she said "two chapters ago"

Again, inner monologue, it's Lil'pips thoughts and feelings over what happened. So no real reason she'd be subtle with herself

yeah Steelhooves can be a cold mother-bucker when he has to be, but that's to be expected, being a soldier that's survived all the shit he's been through.

And as we kept saying about 80% of the crap with Pip early on was the drugs

Generally, yeah. Except we, though not Homage, already know the Pinkie was able to do the same exact thing, just to late for it to have mattered cause the next day the bombs dropped. And for that matter, it's kind of dumb to assume that the Mane 6 were the best at EVERYTHING, some pony has to be better then them at a lot of things, the issue is an OC being better then the Mane 6 at something important to them, something the canon pony is know for. Like throwing parties better then Pinkie, being faster the RD, smarter the Twilight etc... Simply being able to do one thing that isn't a vital part of who they are better then one canon pony isn't a big deal.

Massive decades long war, the other side always gets painted with massive propaganda. We don't see a single Zebra that is treated with massive disrespect personally. And nearly all the information we get about the Zebra's comes from those propaganda filled times.

Oh yeah homage teasing Pip like that becomes a running gag. As to the speed of them hooking up, why not, not every romance needs some big build up, or something huge, literally at first they were just two lonely ponies throwing themselves at each other for companionship. Only after did they find how much they did love each other.

The pony that robbed and threaten to kill the pony that not five minutes earlier had freed him from slavers is just NOW being made to look like a dick?

you're not paying attention, that orb was the macguffin Watcher wanted lil'pip to get him.

And yeah, her obsession with the orb does get kind of disturbing.

Ummm, no, wait till you see exactly what he meant by that. And kind of hard to be both totally peaceful and alive in a hell-hole like the wasteland. it's made pretty clear the fact that it's necessary is fucked up and the the world should be a place ponies like Velvet never have to give up there ideals.

And first act being sub-par compared to the rest, admitted fact, it being crap, YMMV.
Seraphem
Ginger told me that Applesnack was the pony spying on them.
Pannic
In 20,5 we get told that Pon3 sleeps with her just because she is a "hero" that she hypes her up and declares her messiah to inspire other ponies and that she doesn't actually think Littlepip is all THAT much of hot stuff. Also her main charm is her being EXTREMELY horny and desperate, which Homage finds funny. Only After that is said does Littlepip ask for some faith and Homage says, Okay, I'll try to believe the Crap I feed my audience, until you crack and become a Raider, like all the other heroes before you.
theonebutcher
Resuming Our Regular Programming
Why hold back? Go ahead. I'd love to see that rant.
ILSS
On comedy
uummmm no, YOU don't find it funny, that does not mean it isn't or it's wrong, just that it's not something you personally do not find funny. Humor is completely subjective, you can't call something bad just becuase you persoanlly didn't laugh, I found a lot of the bits rather funny,not SMOF by any means, but enough for a quick chuckle or grin.

it's not trying to make you ROFLMAO, just give a bit of a grin, if it doesn't work for you but works for others, it's not bad, it's just subjective.
Seraphem
i would just like to point out that a lot of what this story is doing is aimed at the Fallout games and not just MLP remember during Pip's assault on the slavers when she killed the ones playing cards and had a moment of reflection that was about how as players we let the coler of our cross hairs tell us "see these guys you have no prior knowledge of they are bad kill them" and we do also Pip and Calamity's kleptomania is used to lampshade how players behave and a lot and if your a fan of the games then the whole fic becomes a scavenger hunt for references i'm not saying the fic is perfect if any thing what i'v said exposes the problem that you need to be a fallout fan to get half of whats going on
thanotosomega
Little Pip IS this giddy to impress her potential f-buddy. I don't care if Spikes line isn't funny, it's completely something a huge effin Dragon would say to tell the Enclave "You are in over your head if you mess with me". Remember you are talking about a Dragons liar. They know it's full of treasure, so Spike has to go for Maximum Intimidation.
theonebutcher
Two chapters!
You know, the story becomes a lot more interesting if I take the perspective that Littlepip is an Unreliable Narrator and she's touching certain things up or lying to make herself look less odious, but sometimes she slips and forgets things, thus we have things like her being horrified by this gun yet continuing to carry it and be perfectly willing to use it despite having plenty of things that shoot at other things, or how I'm expected to believe that she's worried about her moral status despite not doing anything about it and having killed another pony in the most painful ways she could within a day of leaving her stable.

That is actually probably true now that I think about it. After all, the entire fic is well-intentioned propoganda.
Sereg
Actually Live
You forget a thing about the Canterlot Ghouls' exposition: the fact that both Pip and Velvet are told by Calamity that the Princesses didn't Ascended To A Higher Plane Of Existence but they died while protecting Canterlot from the Balefire Bombs. And what's Pip reaction, after some minutes of comforting both herself and Velvet?

"I decided that I will still believe that they're watching us from the sky".

Angst? What Angst? anyone?
kimba90
Eh. That's not an Angst What Angst thing, that's a "still believing in your religion even when an atheist grills you" thing. A better example of Angst What Angst is Velvet's nonchalant reaction to the battle on the train in chapter 8, wherein she accidentally kills someone and nearly gets stabbed to death.
Pannic
This chapter and the last one are hilarious not a single paragraph without a laugh
thanotosomega
as the zebras go right back to attacking, because that's totally believable and shit.

This makes more sense later. Knowing what I do now, if I was a zebra, I'd have done the same thing.

Forcefield, pink cloud, this story is really trying to make me hate the zebras, ain't it?

Some do. I sympathise with them. Though I agree with Fluttershy the most often in this fic.
Sereg
It's from the perspective of a dying soldier who witnesses Fluttershy using the megaspell to heal everyone on the battlefield. Rainbow Dash then yells at her for starting the battle all over again as the zebras go right back to attacking, because that's totally believable and shit.

This is stupid for more reasons than just that. Fluttershy's ministry comes up with a way to instantly heal large numbers of people of anything from chicken pox to dismemberment, with none of the limitations or negative side effects of any other known form of healing magic, and it's immediately dismissed and never mentioned again.

Forcefield, pink cloud, this story is really trying to make me hate the zebras, ain't it?

Pretty much.
ILSS

ILSS
Hit the wrong button.
ILSS
Compression
Wait you mean Angel isn't the warrior king of bunny's every thing i know of this show is a lie!
thanotosomega
I hope you like video game references
One of the funny things about doing this liveblog is that sometimes, it isn't until later that I find something else about something I read earlier that gives me more reasons to dislike it. Such was the case in Fallout Equestria, but I'll save those for later because I haven't been feeling good with school lately and right now I don't feel like being met with incredulity for thinking murder is bad.

If you're talking about what I think you are, then I agree. It's amazing that Kkat took a plot line from Fallout 3 wherein both sides are murderous assholes and altered it such that one party is all but completely exonerated, and then had the protagonists murder him horribly anyway and cover it up simply because they didn't like him.
ILSS
The Plothole was "Why didn't Luna help against the Changelings?"
theonebutcher
Retrospective
That whole thing in regards to the Ghouls at Tenpony.
Basically everything about that is just an awful mess.

In Fallout 3 Tenpenny Tower is run by Allistair Tenpenny, a vilely bigoted ex-slave owner who shoots ghouls for sport, explaining the "no ghouls allowed" policy. In Fallout: Equestria Tenpony tower is run by the Twilight Society, whose members' attitudes don't mirror Tenpenny's, so the official hostility towards ghouls is nonsensical.

I don't think he even actually shows up until his face gets torn off.
He doesn't. In Fallout 3 the security chief is openly enthusiastic about killing ghouls. In FO:E, the only line we even get from Grim Star is that he did what he had to do to protect Tenpony's inhabitants. Most of our impression of him comes from Homage, and she's calling for his death.

But then the story ham-fistedly goes "hate this guy" and then kills him off.
The thing that gets me is that the mercenaries reveal Rottingtail's plan and everyone still acts as though the security chief was completely in the wrong. They just keep going on about how much support there was for letting the ghouls in despite having found out it would have been a fatal mistake. Nobody cares in the slightest about the ghouls' planned treachery; Blackwing outright states that she intended to keep it a secret so as not to justify his beliefs. Grim Star didn't know about it, so it was horrid of him to hire mercenaries to kill them, but this entire thing has the pro-ghoul equality camp agreeing to cover up the truth of the incident because it would make their side look bad. It keeps going many chapters later when Littlepip tells Homage what really happened, and she simply weasels her way around it in a later broadcast.
ILSS
I'm Gonna Be Here A While
ugh seriously, I couldn't even finish it, if all your going to do is complain bitch and gripe over how the story doesn't fit your singular ideal of a "perfect" story in which no pony ever does anything wrong, never hurts another pony and is utterly and totally perfect, why bother reading it, I can't even finihs these posts anymore, all you do is hate hate hate hate, and look at everything in the worst most twisted way possible.

You don't like the story, we get it, but none of it has anything to do with the story itself you clearly hate anything the would involve *GASP* people/ponies not having the option to sit down and talk every single solitary issue out all while being perfect pacifists in a world where that doesn't pretty much get you killed.

Ugh, yeah giving just how outright mean-spirited every thing I've seen you write so far is just in reviews, yeah i'm done. Not saying you don't have a few decent criticisms but you treat every single flaw as some huge issue that someone would have to be an utter moron or total monster not to find horrid and a reason to hate the story. Even if said "flaw" is simply, doesn't meet YOUR personal expectations of what a good story is, or isn't totally embracing your idea the anything other total pacifism is horrid evil, wrong, and sick.

Given just how many people LOVE this story, obviously it's not the utter peice of trash you seem to think, is it perfect, no, is it for everyone, again no. But you clearly seem to feel that you and you alone are the arbiter of all thing "good" and anything which does not meet your personal idea is garbage and horrid.
Seraphem
That's because they are huge issues, and one of the reasons why I'm writing a remake of it. Seriously, something that I adore in the Fallot series is that it gives you lots of options to resolve the various quest, some of them even completely unrelated to violence. The action scenes, while fun id written well, becomes boring after a while if you are interested to see other things that just action. Unfortunately many fans seems to be only interested in that, that's why they don't see the problems the fic has (sure violence is not the only thing tey love of the fic, but it's undoubtely one of those).
kimba90
kind of hard to have multiple choices and paths in a book as compared to a game. This isn't a written account of a play through of a game. Yes it does borrow a good deal of game logic and such, but there's a line between that and out right Lets Play

Is the story violent, oh hell yeah. Does that make it in anyway bad, no. Does it mean everyone has to like it, again no. If ti's not your type of story, it's not your type of story just don't read it. Don't read it, knowing the very basic levels of it are something you don't like, and then act like it's horrible for not being what you want it to be.
Seraphem
And no it's not the violence I love, or what anyone I know that likes the story loves about it. It's the story as a whole, the fact that despite being so violent, do dark it never succumbs to Grimdark-ness, it's not dark or violent just for the sake of being dark and violent, it does it to show just how wrong it is, how this is not how ponies should live, and to set up just how bad the Wasteland is, making all the more inspiring that one single pony is able to remind the entire Wasteland what Equestria was, and to light the fires of hope in them, rally them to help change what they once just accepted as fact, to end the hatred, violence, and bloodshed of the wastes, stand up to Slavers and Raiders, find something worth fighting for and in the end bring back the hope that Equestria could once more become what it was.

The Darkness, violence and what not isn't there for it to be there, it's there to contrast both how Equestria was, and how thanks to Littlepip, it will be again.
Seraphem
My problem is that I do not find that Littlepip is a character who inspires hope.
Pannic
admittedly she isn't really the type personality wise, but it's her actions that do it, not her. Standing up to slavers and raider, Redeye, The Goddess. simply reminding the ponies of the Wasteland what they had lost, and a good part of it admittedly does go to Homage for turing Littlepip the flawed, unsure, toaster repairpony into Lil'pip, the Lightbringer. Making her a symbol far above her own ability to be so.

She's hardheaded stubborn tends to be a shortsighted, yes she has plenty of flaws, but it's that same stubbornness that prevents her from just giving up, that keeps her going no matter what it coasts her. Taken in a vacuum yeah Lil'pip isn't really that type, but in context, everything she does is just the right thing at the right time.

Keep in mind we see everything, most of the rest of the ponies don't all they know is so far in the last few weeks this mare has

Wiped out the Raider nest in Ponyville, freeing that area from them

Rescued all the slaves from Appleloosa

Wiped out the raiders and slavers from...forget the name, the prison

Brought the sole source of widespread entertainment in the Wastelands new music for all the ponies to enjoy, (yes not as epic but still something that none of them ever thought would happen)

Dealt with a chimera nest that was making parts of Manehatten impossible to pass through

Walked right into Redeyes fortress and emerged alive. and while doing so restored DJ Pon-3's voice and eyes to the area.

The hope is less from he persoanlly, then from seeing how just one pony that refused to give up could do all that to make the wasteland better in just a few weeks
Seraphem
kind of hard to have multiple choices and paths in a book as compared to a game

What i'm talking about is for the protagonist do different choices that aren't limited to gnning everything not good that moves. In the games (well, more the earliers than the laters) follow this logic is like a double-edge sword that can bite the player in the ass lately. If that can happen in videogame, where mindless violence is usually the norm, why can't in a piece of narration?

in context, everything she does is just the right thing at the right time.

And the right thing is to respond to injustice with blood and deaths, in a world where Death is already everywhere. That's really going to inspire people on foing better and to make old Equestria returr, alright. Afterall, there's no way in hell that all the raiders and slavers Pip and co. gunned down had loved ones or families, and even if they have they'll sure going to behave if they don't want to be guuned to by Littlepip "the Destroyer" instead of growing even more angry with the world and bring even more blood and death right?!

I now want to quote this words from Black Jack, protagonists of Fo E: Project Horizons:

“A long time ago there was a war between ponies and zebras. I saw a memory of it not long ago. I saw the hate and the blood and carnage. Some ponies think the bombs ended it. But I disagree. This is a war that is still being fought today, only now we’re fighting between ourselves. And every single time we kill, we keep it going.”

I’ve learned of a pony from that time who realized what everypony else didn’t. The war had to end, and if we were ever going to win it we would have to do better. Be better. Not better killers. Not more ruthless. We would have to be… kind.”

“I’m not an executioner. I’m Security. If he’d threatened another I wouldn’t stop fighting him ‘til he gave up. If he threatened your lives I’d do all I could to end his. But like this… I can’t give you what you want. I’m sorry." “I know I can’t stop you from killing him. I know that many of you need this. But I’m begging you… please… be better. Be kind.”

This are the words of a pony who inspires hope, the words of somepony who wants to change for better with the hope that the Wasteland can change as well. Now what I want to ask is, did Littlepip ever note of this? That since the beginning of the war ponies have responded to violence with violence and were still doing this even after it? Did she and her freinds ever took in consideration than maybe something else should've be done instead?

That's the big limit to Fo E, to beleive that violence and blood against evil is the only way to make everything better: no matter how this is so much common in media, it's a terrible lesson to show to people.

kimba90
and again, yes her personality isn't really that of some great savior. It's her actions that inspire the wasteland, not her speeches. Yes violence is not always the best answer, but sometimes it simply IS the only answer.

Would Lil'pip have been a good leader or a good symbol for reforming Equestria and guiding it once the threats of Redeye, The Goddess, The Enclave et al were defeated, probably not. But she WAS what the Wasteland needed, a symbol and a hope that those threats COULD be overthrown, that it was possible to change the wasteland. That raiders, slavers and the rest could be fought. These threats were not ones that could be talked away, under any circumstances.

The hope I'm talking about Lil'pip inspiring isn't about hope that everything will be perfect and just like Equestria was before, guiding the ponies back to that was something a pony like Velvet or Homage would be better at. No, Lil'pip gave them hope that they could stand up and fight, and win. Gave them the hope that that Redeye, The Goddess, all that sought to enslave, cower, and control them could end giving them the chance to rebuild Equestria as it should be.
Seraphem
Yes violence is not always the best answer, but sometimes it simply IS the only answer.

yes, but Pip (almost) never thought about other answers, because she and co. thinks that violence is the answer to every problem (even with unwinnable situation like with the Steel Rangers, who haves really strong armors and weapons of mass destructions; and still, they goes down like mooks! Logic, this is unknown :P). Even Velvet, the only in the group who tried other ways, gave up to it because the story's truly convinced that there's no other options but brute strenght.

These threats were not ones that could be talked away, under any circumstances.

Sorry, but I disagree.... partially. Even without using words, there are things called Non-Lethal K.Os., that should be especially easy for her given that she's an expert in telekinesys, the best way existent to make people lose consciousness. And even without that, there are still non-lethal bosy parts, like legs, arms or almost anything beneath the rib cage; shoot there and most people would be so much in pain that they won't think about aiming anymore (and for stimpaks/heal potions you can make them lose consciousness ao they won't take them).
kimba90
I love this! I really enjoy Fallout: Equestria (and its side-stories) but that doesn't mean I'm not entertained by your rants about it. There's a lot in this fic that can be mocked, and I find myself laughing every few lines as you point out everything that's wrong with the story. I hope you continue, because there's so much more that I want to read your reactions to. Great work with this!
Unknownlight
I'm completely aware that Littlepip is a perverted selfrighteous bitch, who is overblown by Homage for Propaganda reasons. She's also an unreliable narrator, who always narrates things in order to justify the actions of her future political faction look good and the fic sends Horrible Messages. It's still Hilarious though.
theonebutcher
Aaaaand Countdown
It's possible that the only reason you like the characters who were quickly killed off is just that they didn't get enough screentime to properly annoy you yet.
Unknownlight
Life Bloom strikes you as smarmy? That's interesting. Oh well.
Sereg
Well, I dunno. Doesn't exactly make a very big first impression, and mostly I get "Yeah, I'm in a secret society. I'm kinda cool like that. And I like you because you're the Hero."
Pannic
Life Bloom gets more important later on. Partially retroactively. And yeah. Let's just say he doesn't like Littlepip for he body.
Sereg (edited by: Sereg)
Wait, a character who doesn't worship the protagonist? Now I'm interested.
Pannic
Oh, he likes her. Just not for her body.
Sereg
And she actually comes to respect him, probably more than he does her (can't remember well enough to be sure). As she should!
Sereg
"one of which tries to tentacle rape Littlepip, because that's totally what this story was missing" Oh, lol... FO:E is so good BECAUSE it's characters are murderous Heroes only in name. And who doesn't like unreliable narrators? Heck, you thought it was in first person JUST BECAUSE? It's in first person because Littlepip wanted to make herself sound good. It's propaganda.
theonebutcher
WMG WTF
You're right of course, but I'm still amused by all the random insanity.
Sereg
Worst Brotherhood Ever
I swear, sometimes it seems less like I'm being told a story and more like I'm listening to a therapy session. Wouldn't that be funny. At the end of the story...

Celestia: So, Littlepip, tell me more about your mother. Littlepip: I already said pretty much everything. I mean, she isn't a very fleshed-out character[[/quouteblock]]

[lol] That would have been hilarious! What's funnier is how close you are to the truth!

[[quoteblock]]Blimey, Littlepip's important. It's a marvel that the sun can rise without her involvement. Actually, scratch that, Littlepip is the sun and the world revolves around her.

Oh, you are going to love snarking about one of the perks! And the revelation of just how imnportant Littlepip is!

Littlepip agrees but calls them a bunch of twits, and I'm inclined to agree. This secret society seems sorta stupid.

You have a point! It's like they're all about being cool and mysterious rather than doing anything importanbt!

There's also some bullshit about stars and that laser gun Homage has.

That at least becomes important later.

and you never think to investigate the fucking box?

True! But as I've said before, Fallout Equestria is all about ponies making really stupid decisions!

But yeah, I was really angry with Littlepip over Arbu. I felt that she was murdering people for their eating habits which is totally irrelevant. W Hat next? Gasp! They're wearing leather! They must die! (Still, I thought that she actually improved after Arbu.)

Sereg
when their "eating habits" include cannibalism....yeah you kind of deserve it. Granted Lil'pip did take it to far out of rage, but hey, you just found out the friendly people you just killed to defend was a cult of cannibal's that secretly fed you meat from a person, most people wouldn't be thinking all that clearly.

And yet another why the fuck am I reading this of you going on and on bashing it because it's not your personal idea of a good story, and refusing to look at anything in anything but the worst possible light.
Seraphem
It's cause you know you love me, Seraphem. Can't resist my charm and wit.

As for certain perks, yeah, I noticed that bit - "Celestia-tier telepathy, you might just move the sun one day." Of course, I'm condensing stuff down like hell, so there's a fair bit of stuff I don't get around to making fun of.
Pannic
@Pannic: Ah. Wasn't sure if that had happened yet.

when their "eating habits" include cannibalism....yeah you kind of deserve it.

Why!? Are you seriously telling me that anyone who has ever engaged in cannabalism for any reason (and bear in mind that this is the wasteland) deserve to be murdered!?

Their was literally zero indication that they'd murdered anypony they ate! I finished the story believing that they hadn't!
Sereg
There's Grandpa Rattle's ledger. We never actually see it, but it's enough to convince Homage that she was totally right.
Pannic
eating dead ponies because they had to, okay that's a grey area that might be understandable, killing other ponies just to eat them, that is where you cross the line, and it's pretty damn clear they killed ponies, between the ledger, the secrecy, and the emphasis on having to make and eat your first kill to get your arbu mark.

Yeah while it admittedly doesn't come right out and say it, there is almost no chance arbu wasn't killing ponies to eat them.
Seraphem
Even if they were, Littlepip had no evidence that they were!

What happened to benifit of the doubt!?
Sereg
Well, it's not like that's ever been one of this character's strong points.
Pannic
So, Arbu
I actually find myself agreeing with Calamity. On pretty much everything. Raiders are murderers. Canabils aren't necessarily murderers and I never believed the population of Arbu were murderers.
Sereg
I think it was all but flat-out stated that Arbu was a town of Sweeney Todds and Mrs. Lovetts. If they're a bunch of murders, I don't see any worthwhile difference between what she does here and what she does everywhere else in the story.

So that might illustrate my overall complaint about the protagonist a bit. The way you feel about Littlepip being a vindictive sadist at Arbu? That might give you a pretty good idea about how I feel about her throughout the entire story.

Thinking on it more, I find myself disliking Velvet Remedy even more after this chapter for some reason. Interesting.
Pannic
Calamity is basically the only member of the group who has a problem. The most murder-happy member of the party, the guy who has the "shoot on sight" attitude towards raiders that cheerfully extends towards children, is the only member of the group who objects to what Littlepip does. Oh, I get a kick out of you.
I skimmed through it again, and I found their argument with Calamity hilarious. Paraphrased:

"They were only eating raiders. I don't see anything wrong with that."

"They killed that preacher and mounted his head on the wall!"

"That was just one guy. You don't know that there were any other innocents."

"We have an entire ledger detailing all of the people they killed!"

"Doesn't matter. You're still wrong."
ILSS
@Pannic: If they Littlepip knows that they are murderers, yes. But she doesn't. She just knows that they eat ponies and use their body parts. That's it! She definitely didn't check the ledger before slaughtering the town (which included at least one non-canibal).

Still, I understand why you dislike Littlepip if this is how you see her all the time.

That said, I personally thought tat she became better about this stuff after Arbu. Whether or not you'll agree, we'll have to see.
Sereg
We'll see. On to chapter 36!
Pannic
I can think of at least one incident in the future chapters where Littlepip still proves herself a rather ruthless killer.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Not sure what you're reffering to, but I never said that she was perfet after this. Just better.
Sereg
So it's a preview of the next chapter, basically.
Honestly, I was expecting you to have more to say more about the diary entries.
ILSS
I'm afraid I got lazy. I find myself usually ignoring the journal entries and audio logs for the most part. Sorry about that. I'll try to fix that.
Pannic
I actually found most of the little stories told in the random logs and journals to be more interesting than the main plot.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Forgetting the Point
You really need to write your rants in Google Docs or something if the browser is going to keep eating your words like that.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Maybe use a word processor or text editor and just copy/paste it over to the browser when you're done.
ILSS
That's what I'll do now. Admittedly I'm somewhat losing heart.
Pannic
TL;DR part 1
...... yeah. already said everything and, just, yeah.......

After starting the reread, I really cannot in any way see how you arrive at these ideas without willfully distorting stuff, ignoring things, and just twisting it till it conforms to your per-established feelings.
Seraphem
I actually get your pint about Littlepip's genericness actually. It seems sometimes that her deviations from average are just there to be there rather than a natural result of a real character. But I got over that in time. Still, I originally suspected that Littlepip was going to be the party rogue and sometimes suspect that the story would have been better if she really went that route.
Sereg
If nothing else, I do think that Littlepip is a very firmly established character. Does that mean she's a complex character? Not at all, but I did notice when I read the story that at some point I knew Littlepip well enough that I was able to predict her every action and even line of dialogue ahead of time, even when it wasn't something I would personally do. So, no, she's not a very deep character, but she's a very consistent and predictable one. Whether that's a good or bad thing...

Glad to see you continuing these. :) Pretty hilarious writeup, add usual.
Unknownlight
After starting the reread, I really cannot in any way see how you arrive at these ideas without willfully distorting stuff, ignoring things, and just twisting it till it conforms to your per-established feelings.

I went into this trying to throw away as many spoilers and pre-conceptions as I could (as I do with all the stories I read), although there were two that were just too powerful to shake that I think cancelled each other out. Which are "best fic in the fandom, so should be awesome" and "this is a better representation of the themes of the show than the show itself." The first of which is a pretty bold claim, but entirely possible and the second of which is so bold it crosses into arrogance. I went in with a pretty neutral disposition and honestly? Regardless of how sassy Pannic is in his assessment, I find myself agreeing with many of his points.

Still, I originally suspected that Littlepip was going to be the party rogue and sometimes suspect that the story would have been better if she really went that route.

Yea, she definitely has the skillset for it, but it kind of has some hilarious meta implications. It's like the player who gets so carried away with the shooting that he/she forgets why he/she took the rogue type skills to begin with and just starts taking combat perks.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
The Worst Possible Thing
Well TTEOAP isn't QUITE that set up, but the author does try to use as many Brony/Human-in-Equestria cliches and general ideas as possible, just to show that the ideas in and of themselves aren't bad, it's how badly they are used.

Much like the whole reason David Eddings wrote The Belgariad. To prove Tropes Arent Bad
Seraphem
This reeks of patheticness.

Not the story, not the author, but this blog.

Ze stinke...
LogicDownfall
TL;DR part 2
Well, to be fair, I've never read the fic. And going off the content you listed, I don't think I want to. So there wasn't really anything left to say. :P

I also found the division of the orbs and the whole jumping back and forth between mental states pretty oddball, as well. There's another chapter later on that does something like that again.

To add to what your comment on 20.5: it's also supplemental material from an external author. If the relationship and/or story can't stand without it, I think that's a pretty big weakness.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Yeah, your description convinced me not to read it either. It sounds terrible.

As for Calamity and Velvet, maybe the problem is that I've been overexposed to dysfunctional relationships, as it seems fine to me. It's just the out of nowhereness of Littlepip/Homage that bothers me. Probablyfor the same reason. Another issue being that I've never had a girlfriend before, so I'm not relating.

I haven't read 20.5, so I can't comment. I don't even think that Girl On Girl Is Hot, so yeah.
Sereg
Don't get me wrong, I still think Littlepip and Homage's relationship stinks - it's just that it seems like it has a reason to exist, whereas Calamity and Velvet are an odd pairing with no accompanying hijinks. Just a moral debate here and there, and those aren't particularly interesting to read.

Actually, the thing in this chapter follows more or less the exact same format as the one in chapter 16. They have an argument on opposing sides, Littlepip says nothing until it starts getting more heated and she yells at them both to shut up.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
I still don't quite understand why these last six memory orbs are so big and important, other than being the final ones in the story. Sure, they all include important information (except for the Apple Orb, which didn't really have real plot significance...) but so do most memory orbs. There was one orb in the chapter that I think was big and important enough to require its own bolded title, but the rest could've been spaced out over a few chapters in the normal way.

Speaking of that big and important orb, I can't wait till you get to it. It's so completely weird and random that I just found myself laughing as I read it. I actually quite enjoyed it—it's one of the most memorable parts of the entire fic for me—but I suspect you're going to have a lot of problems with the scene. ;)
Unknownlight
I always thought most of Littlepip x Homage made sense, at least in terms of realism. They're a couple of horny girls without partners giving into their hormones and keeping it going based on some fantastical romantic view of their relationship. Not a healthy relationship in the least, but it makes sense. I kept waiting for the whole thing to totally crash and burn, as things based around romantic illusion tend to, but infuriatingly enough, it never happens. And then the relationship kind of gets forgotten except in moments where Littlepip needs to justify being more reckless than usual until the end where the story's all like "yep, they lived happily ever after because it was true love, man!" What.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Not a healthy relationship in the least, but it makes sense. I kept waiting for the whole thing to totally crash and burn, as things based around romantic illusion tend to, but infuriatingly enough, it never happens. And then the relationship kind of gets forgotten except in moments where Littlepip needs to justify being more reckless than usual until the end where the story's all like "yep, they lived happily ever after because it was true love, man!" What.

Exactly! It's ridiculous!
Sereg
TL;DR part 3
... he promptly tells the protagonist to fuck off ...
... doesn't worship the ground the protagonist walks on.
... he’s ... going to get killed off ...
Yeah, you've figured out how this works.

There’s an audio recording, in which Scootaloo is crying and gives a massive "fuck you" to the inhabitants of Stable One, who she intends to lock up forever. Unfortunately that didn't quite go the way she intended, as some of the intended targets (the Ministry Mares and the Princesses, mainly) never made it in.
Think about how many of the intended targets here are capable of teleporting, and of teleporting others, both in the show and within this fic.
ILSS
As I've said before, Littlepip is my least favourite member of her team. I still like her, but I find her companions more interesting. This is actually typical of me though. I cn only think of two protagonists who were my favourite character: Twilight and Thrice-Radiant Misho. Interestingly, those two have a lot in common. Including both being Twilights ;-P
Sereg
Think about how many of the intended targets here are capable of teleporting, and of teleporting others, both in the show and within this fic.

Good point, but we've never seen teleportation through solid rock before.

That said, I was completely in agreement with Scootaloo here.
Sereg
Teleportation nothing. I simply imagine that Celestia, Luna, or Twilight could easily just figure out some sort of way to magic the door open, unless Scootaloo made contingencies for that.

I know Ginger frequently brings this up as one of his "fuck you" points, saying that he despises Scootaloo in this fic. If I cared I might be inclined to agree with him. Condemning your enemies to living the rest of their lives in a hole in the ground is one thing, but condemning their descendants to the same fate unless they murder the princesses or something? I think that crosses the line.

Anyway, I don't find her companions particularly lovable, either. This chapter alone has skyrocketed my scorn for Velvet Remedy something considerable. The only companions I find generally tolerable are Xenith and SteelHooves, but that's about it. In particular, as I've mentioned, I hate Velvet Remedy. The characters I do like or the characters who can be classified as "random schmoes." Characters like Silver Bell, Monterey Jack, Blood and Daffodil, Strawberry Lemonade, and now Caliber. Those are the characters I personally feel it would be better to focus on, the regular average and downtrodden folks that make up the population of wretches that Littlepip is trying to save by murdering everyone she doesn't like.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Alicorns aren't unaging in this fic. Just long lived. The descendents will get out eventually. Keeping them in the stable is worth it IMO.

I actually like Velvet, but I guess that you'll tll us why you hate her later.
Sereg
Condemning your enemies to living the rest of their lives in a hole in the ground is one thing, but condemning their descendants to the same fate unless they murder the princesses or something? I think that crosses the line.
It wasn't just about the princesses and the ministry heads; the doors weren't supposed to open until everyone in the stable was dead.

It's entertaining to note that despite Stable 1 being a horrible secret punishment that Scootaloo had hidden from her friends, Stable 2's mission makes it functionally identical.
ILSS
It wasn't just about the princesses and the ministry heads; the doors weren't supposed to open until everyone in the stable was dead.

Incorrect. Everypony who entered the stable was dead. Those who were born there are fine. Not to mention that it wasn't horrible at all. We giv far worse punishments for far less in real life.
Sereg
I should like to mention that I'm sorry for there not being an update. I read the first chapter of a shitty Fallout: Equestria hatefic and initially updated it, but chickened out and deleted it on account of the subject matter, not wanting to get modded, and vague concern that I looked like I was "trying too hard."

As for my dislike of Velvet, I guess I'll do a longer writeup later when it coincides with story events better, but the short of it is that she's an annoying strawman who serves only to make the story's overall "yay on murder" stance that much more aggravating.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Velvet is presented in too positive a light to be a strawman. I agree with her very often. In fact, there are times where the story demonstrates that she's in the right, rather than her team.
Sereg
Nnnnnnot seeing it. Will discuss later in the blog.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Good point, but we've never seen teleportation through solid rock before.

Maybe not rock, but something like say, going from the alley to inside the library in Ticketmaster would have meant going through or bypassing a rather impressive amount of solid objects.

Canterlot Wedding seemed to possibly place limitations on this, but I find myself wondering if maybe it was simply because Twi didn't know exactly where she was underground and wanted to avoid accidental telefragging.

Yeah, you've figured out how this works.

This.

KuroiTsubasaTenshi
I enjoyed this liveblog. Since I care nothing about both series, I prefer reading riffs. I read and re-read the trope page and the fic didn't look any different from an application of Rule of Internet #43, only that gained enough notoriety and is considered to be good by a large pool of people.
RN452
You must be steaming Kkat something awful with these latest updates, because she's over in the forum thread likening you to the Westboro Baptist Church.
ILSS
<rolleyes>

I likened somebody's suggestion that Pannic should praise a story in a liveblog called "Pannic Reads Stuff He Hates" to (amongst other comparisons) the idea of Westboro Church entering a float in a gay pride parade.

The comparison is between acts that run counter to a stated goal or agenda. I'm pretty sure you're bright enough to know the difference between that and likening Pannic himself to anyone. Do you really need people to explain that to you?

If you're hoping that this liveblog upsets me, sorry. I actually quite enjoy it for what it is. True, the liveblog is not honest, unbiased or accurate. But Pannic never pretended this would be a "fair and balanced" reading of the story. It's supposed to be a funny ripping of the story from a hateful perspective. And it is. Hyperbole, intentional misreading, taking things in the worst possible light and even jumping to nonsensical conclusions are all tools of the mock that are perfectly and rightfully used here. Plus, as an added bonus, not only is the liveblog hilarious, but he regularly makes one or two legitimate points about real problems in the story. And I'm thankful for that.

The only issue I had with this particular posting is Pannic's comments about not having originally gone into the story with "the direct intention of hating its protagonist"... not because I doubt that's true, but because there are people who aren't smart enough to realized the difference between that and claiming he didn't go into the story with prejudice (which he makes clear he did). Likewise, there are those who cannot understand that Pannic saying his hatred doesn't come from "reading it wrong and twisting stuff" isn't the same as him denying that he does those things. Of course he twists stuff and reads things wrong. The liveblog wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable if he didn't.

The problem is, I've been having to deal with a reader who, instead of reading the story and forming his own opinions, is getting his understanding of these chapters from this liveblog and has been taking Pannic's parody as gospel. Even though Pannic himself has told the guy that it's wrong to do so.

The comparison that you attempted to twist into something more damning is part of an exasperated response to said individual. (But then, accuracy wasn't your agenda either. I notice you didn't come here crying that I "likened Pannic to the NRA". But then, that wouldn't have been nearly so prejudicial.)

Kkatman (edited by: Kkatman)
TL;DR part 4 (fin!)
The Ballon Orb will make more sense later.

And I honestly don't see anything evil about wearng the bones of the long dead. Morbid, but not evil. It's not like they were using their bones anymore. Though I tend to be a little on the pragmatic side. I'd rather have my dead body used as clothes than just sit buried in the ground being useless. Of course, organ donation is far superior.
Sereg (edited by: Sereg)
Point is she's a one-dimensional cacklingly evil bad guy who dies as soon as she's introduced. I suspect she exists solely to justify the Goddess not sending Littlepip with a note that says "Hey, don't shoot her, she's cool."

Anyway, finished chapter 38. This should be a fun update.
Pannic
The main reason Chapter 37 is treated so significantly in the story (besides its length) is because Kkat had that chapter roughly planned out since the story began, and she said she'd been looking forward to writing it for a long time. Thus, it's treated with more impact than it ought to have, considering that there's still an entire book left.
Unknownlight
Pardon Me While I Have a Strange Interlude
I definitely agree with you about having knowledge of Fallout before reading FO:E makes the fic not as good. My ideal order is that you should first read the story, and then play the games. That way you still (retroactively) get the references, but everything seems new and original to you when you first read the book.

Anyway, this post is more like a summation of a bunch of things you've already said in a bunch of different places at a bunch of different times, so I have nothing new to say. Props to you for compiling it all, though. You make a much better argument when your points are all together like this.
Unknownlight
I'm repeating myself. Shit. That's a bad sign.
Pannic
Eh, I still think that Velvet is portrayed too positively to be a strawman. Admittedly, you haven't reached the biggest case of her being proven right yet and it is a bit unbalanced, but oh well.

I think that the bigger issue is that few of their enemies can be reasoned with.

That said, your last line was funny.
Sereg
No, she, is, not. In no way is she even close to a strawman. At no point are her beleifs EVER treated as wrong simply for what they are. But rather they are wrong for surviving in the hell-hole that the Wastes are. And it is the fact that the world has changed to the point that is true which is treated as wrong, not Velvet's ideals. Li'lpip's whole goal is to do her best to bring Equestria back to a place where ponies like Velvet CAN hold those ideals and not have to sacrifice them to survive.

And I actually preferred going in knowing about Fallout, though it does spoil some stuff, it also gives you a lot more tension when you know about stuff like Maripony, The Enclave etc...

And, as pointed out many many times. Diplomacy doesn't work if the other side will just start shooting on sight. Pretty much every time they've gone up agaisnt a foe that diplomacy might work with, they've tried it. But those are very very few. raiders, not going to happen. Redeye, they did, and it worked to a point. The Goddess, yeah that ain't gonna do anything. (And yes it worked with The Master, but Li'lpip brought up the exact same point that defeated him, and she was able to counter it thanks to magic making it a null point.)

Okay, still hated reading this, but now it's just into the YMMV, less pointlessly ranty stuff again. I just cannot see how you see most of this that way.
Seraphem
If you like random schmoes characters, than you definitely need to try Pink Eyes. That fic's full of them.

I think the problem with Fo E compared to the actual games happens only if you play with a character that good in speech. I for example always had characters with 7-8 levels in speech and/or carisma, with max. 6 or 7 in agility/resistance. Alas, Kkat must be one of those who gives more points to the last two, so while writing Fo E she reminded herself the way she usually completes missions (it helps that the fic is more about FO 3, the most gun-happy game of the series in my humble opinion). A pity, but what'cha gonna do.

Pip kinda reminds me of Shinji Hikari in some ways (especially in the beginning), only a little more.... vicious, if that's the right word. Her self-righteous narration can be read as way to excuse her actions. With time passing by (especially after Arbu) she becomes less of a vicious hero and more of a pragmatic one: she knows how her own actions makes her look more like the "villain of the piece" to the eyes of certain ponies, but if that's the only (well, the only sure) way to change things for the better, so be it. A way to see things I can't say that I agree with, but I can comprehend and maybe simpathize with it.

As for Velvet, her decision to a long with her happy-trigger companions can be read as a way to "close her eyes" in front of the horros of the wasteland and to the fact that she's unable to change something with her pacifist way, while still pretending to be one. Her semi freak-out at Arbu is the first sign that she can't take it anymore, and the Fluttershy's Cottage episode is when she completely lost it, it's her anger (both to wasteland and herself) finally exploding. You must give credit to her that, unlike Pip, she resisted until that point, she never spilled the blood of anypony (unless for self defense or to protect the others) and found the force to restrain herself until that far.

Lastly, I agree with you to the fact that Pip's companions almost never call her back because of her actions and/or never protest about a plan (except Steelhooves, and he's always treated in the wrong). It's only complain I can give to them, though.
kimba90
I think the point is that the story is usually not well balanced with her contents. For example, as Sereg said, Pip & co. meets too many adversaries where dipomacy is useless, while the games were usually more balanced in this way (except gun-happy FO 3 that is). This can make someone see the whole message as "diplomacy is useless, weapons and will-power are those that really brings peace", Hopefully that wasn't the message Kkat intended but some people like Pannic can read it this way (I did too, for a while: knowing however that Littlepip is not happy of it but is kinda forced doing this way, helped changing my mind).
kimba90
I've yet to actually play Fallout. I don't get a lot of oppertunity to game and it seems a little out of my style.

Honestly, what I compared FOE to was Watership Down. That's the closest thing I had to it.

I actually do agree that Littlepip was too generic and attempts to make her deviate from genericness felt forced. I still saythat I think it would have been better for Littlepip to develop into the party rogue. It would feel more natural for her. And then we could have her solving some of her problems with sneakiness rather than violence. And then Velvet could actually have used her abilities to actually function as the face. Actually, with Velvet treated as the leader rather than Littlepip by those outside the group, that would not only be more interesting, but would solve a lot of issues mentioned here.
Sereg (edited by: Sereg)
And again, the very fact that so few opponents are capable of being reasoned with, means you can't complain if somepony doesn't try talking more. When for 90% of the enemies, all that does is give them more time to line up their shot.

And at some point, you have to stop getting hung up on how it was in the game. This isn't that world, so failing it for not being such, when it stays internally consistent and the entire setting makes sense in and of itself. It's just ludicrous.

And I really can't argue with the whole "Li'lpip was generic and boring" part, becuase I don't even see it enough to know how to compare anything to it.
Seraphem
And here I agree with Seraphem. I don't like FOE because of how similar it is to MLP canon. I like it because it made sense internally and gave an explanation of how that world could result from the world we knew and loved in a way that celebrated that old world.

Of course, I'm biased due to my lack of knowledge of Fallout.

As for Littlepip's genericness. It actually was less the genericness itself and more something related to it. The fact that it looks like she was less a naturl character (like the aforementioned random people) and more a blank slate modified for the purposes of the fic. I'm sure that kkat didn't do it this way (at least on purpose), but at times, especally early on, it looks like:

Okay, my character is a pony because they're the star of the show. We can't alienate people though, so let's avoid description. But let's make her small to showcase her vulnerability and cuteness. She has to be female based on the show, but mst fans prefer woman, so let's make her an oversexed lesbian for fanservice. And let's play it for comedy to. She has to dislike anything different to up the contrast and the drama and to drive her o be the hero. And she's a PC, so let's make her an intlligent lockpick kleptomaniac. She has to be a unicorn as they're the most popular O Cs and Twilight is a unicorn but no spells as that alienates some people when she's good at stuff they're not. etc.

Then, despite ending up with a character who seemed to start off as inteligent and sneaky, she starts heady more and more down the road of the fronline fighter, which most of her party has well covered already. Yet she becomes their leader. And the entire wasteland praises her despite the fact that beyond leading, what she does is done better by Calamity and Steel Hooves anyway.

THIS is why I say that Littlepip would have made a better rogure and Velvet could have been the Stabe dweller. Though, of course, that would have been even LESS like Fallout. Because it wouldn't be a PC and her team, but a more equal group working together.
Sereg
@Seraphem And again, the very fact that so few opponents are capable of being reasoned with, means you can't complain if somepony doesn't try talking more

I agree, it's not fault of the characters, more like fault of the story that doesn't give them something to deal more diplomatically :P.

This isn't that world, so failing it for not being such, when it stays internally consistent and the entire setting makes sense in and of itself. It's just ludicrous.

Really, that world have lot's of things in common with the atomic wasteland; if you take away the ponies and the magic (oh, and taint too :P) all that remain is a Fallout game made fic, more or less.

@Sereg Honestly, what I compared FOE to was Watership Down. That's the closest thing I had to it.

Uh, curious comparison there. A saw the movie of it so many times when I was a kid (yes, as a kid. No comment about it, please).

As for Littlepip, I was never I never found her genericness as negative. I like characters with the Everyman appeal, and she have both in personality and (fanon) design. Honestly, is much more hard making a generic and interesting main character that one with some sort of appeal.

And yeah, Velevet main problem is that she's too much underused (hell, even her medical skills are rarely touched), though instead of an actual leader I would've prefer to see her taking the Lancer role instead of Calamity and Steelhooves. She would've been more active as Pip conscience that way.

kimba90
"THIS is why I say that Littlepip would have made a better rogure and Velvet could have been the Stabe dweller."

...This idea intrigues me. Very, very much.
Unknownlight
@kimba: As I said, it's less her genericness (though everymen don't appeal to me much) and more that the parts of her that aren't generic feel tacked on and artificial to the point that they don't mesh with each other (and the more generic parts of her) well.

@Unknownlight: Thank you.
Sereg (edited by: Sereg)
@Sereg Well, that can be read as he hidden character expoding with fury after being suppressed all that long (again, kinda like Shinji. After all, it's well known that calm people when exploding, they do it with the violence of than H bomb (hell, Flutterdhy's a clear example). but I agree, that too should've been more balanced.
kimba90
@kimba: Not what I mean. I mean that she seems like a list of traits rather than an organically grown chracter at times. Especially near the begining. Her exploding with fury isn't the problem. The fact that her traits don't interact with each other well is.
Sereg
I agree, it's not fault of the characters, more like fault of the story that doesn't give them something to deal more diplomatically :P.

It's the story's (and by extension, the author's) job to set up situations that show what a character is made of, though. Regardless of intent, the onus is on the author to mold the story and if the result is that Velvet and her diplomacy come off as completely ineffectual for the "wrong" reasons, well, that's too bad.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
@Sereg Uh, never saw her that way before. I agree that she isn't very organic as a character at the beginning, but she does get better in this sense as the story progress.
kimba90
The thing is, the Fallout games were never exactly on the same level as Deus Ex or Planescape: Torment when it came to being able to solve every conflict non-violently (at least if you wanted the non-shitty endings), but the series, for the most part, did allow you to roll your character as a smooth-talking diplomat, and many of the major conflicts could be solved through such means.

Let's take, for example, the Master, John Henry Eden, and Augustus Autumn. These characters were the inspiration for, respectively, the Goddess, Red Eye (granted he's a composite of numerous characters, but Eden is probably the biggest, or at least the most flagrantly copied), and Autumn Leaf. All three of them could be neutralized through diplomatic. And the last two were in Fallout 3, the one that pretty much forces combat on you.

I think it's a pretty notable departure - I mean, the manual for the first game has a list of all the player character skills, and next to Speech and Barter it has big asterisks and a footnote basically saying "pick these if you want to play a diplomatic character." There's even a character trait in 1, 2, and New Vegas you can pick called "Good Natured," which lowers your combat skills but raises your diplomatic and medicine skills. The Black Isle legacy actually has a bit of a history with this. For example, one of the main villains in Knights of the Old Republic II is pretty much immortal and the only way to defeat him is to convince him to stop holding onto life, and you can make some Persuade checks to weaken his resolve (and lower his stats). And now come this fic, where diplomacy is consistently portrayed as being dumb and useless.

I guess I've just gotten sick of shitty media that trumpets upon me the moral that violence will solve all our problems, and that wanting to do otherwise is fucking stupid. It's been chucked at me by His Dark Materials, and The Inheritance Cycle, and most hilariously and hypocritically from James Cameron's Avatar. I suppose that Fallout: Equestria isn't as bad as those, but when you consider that the original games didn't really have the aforementioned moral and the fic does... Also, I honestly find that Velvet's presence actually makes it worse, because it's like the story is hammering "oh, you don't want another boring action scene? Well fuck you."

Back onto the subject of Prissy Whine, I actually really wanted to like her. Hell, she's probably the only member of Team Protagonist that I come close to feeling things resembling empathy towards. But then the story didn't really give me anything to like. When I finished chapter 7, in which Velvet Remedy was introduced, I went "so you guys swear she isn't an annoying strawman?" And the response I got back was one of "she isn't." Then upon reading chapter 8 I find her being told to take a gun and suck it up, and her first killing of a pony played for laughs.

You can say that Velvet is portrayed positively, but here's the thing: when you have a character who is consistently set up by the story to be proven wrong (which she is), that is pretty much the definition of a strawman. And now, thirty chapters after her introduction, the story has still given me fairly little reason to believe otherwise. Also, as I have mentioned, I find her kind of annoying.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Velvet will eventually be shown to have been right on previous occasions. And I found it rather satisfying. Is it imbalanced against her? Yes. But I'm taking the story as it's presented to me. I don't compare to Fallout because I've never played it. I knew bascally nothing about it when I read the fic. Basically still do. But, while I was irritated by the For The Evulz of most of the early antagonists,I couldn't deny that violence was the only response appropriate against them. By the time they got to actually decent antagonists, that was the MO the team was familiar with. Was that a fault in the story? Yeah. But I can't blame the protagonists for that.
Sereg
@Pannic I mostly agree here, but keep in mind two things:

-First, the story is mostly FO 3: yeah it does have quite many things taken from other games, but the big picture it's still mostly inspired by that game. Sure Kkat could've tried to change a little the source material, but apparently she instead choose to remain mostly faithful to it.

-Second, it also depends on how Kkat played the game series. Diplomatic and sneaky options, while still there, are only options at the end and it's possibly to complete the game while killing everyone, which is maybe what Kkat (and definetely most people) did. Granted, I always preferred to have characters that were good in both speech/carisma and guns of one or two types, instead of being just gun-happy Rambos, but I suspect that the latter is how most players made their characters.

I'm also sick of seying many medias (especially movies and videogames) that shows action and violence as the only option, but as for this fic I honestly stopped caring too much about this and now I mostly analyze other things in it (and some of them are very good, thankfully). However, about the "democratic and pacifistic ways sucks" thing, I think that's not what Kkat had in mind when writing this: I know because, unlike many others of those movies and vifeogames centered on violence, the fic acknowledges the fact that it's wrong. Sure, the times this happens are few compared to those of mindless action (and they happened only much later in the story) but I'd say it's still something compared to those other works :P.

kimba90
@Sereg You'll have to forgive me if I'm not particularly convinced by claims of "it gets better later" at this point.
Pannic
Toot Toot! All Aboard the Angst Train!
That better than all other liveblog entries. You should focus only on livebloging fics you like. Or maybe combine it with liveblog of playing Fallouts, because that was always most interesting part of this liveblog.
DeathCloud
This is called "Pannic Reads Stuff He Hates". What went wrong?! XD
Unknownlight
Couldn't be arsed!
Pannic
It's not only /mlp/ but more FOE fans stopped liking PH or started to have more issues with that.
DeathCloud
Third Time's a Charm, right?
This story is so insanely random I just want to see what happens next.
Sereg
It's like this story is composed of the collective runoff of the entire fandom.
ILSS
I'm running out of snazzy titles
Can we get a hint?
ILSS
It's a "grown-up Spike" clopfic wherein the mane six all have the hots for him.
Pannic
Oh god.

That one.

Oh no.
Unknownlight
Like Your Dumber, Unfunny Cousin
Last time in the comments I thought I knew which fic you were talking about. But I was wrong. Apparently this is a different "everyone loves Spike" clopfic.

...There's more than one of them?

I'm going to go see if I can find the link to the one I was thinking of.
Unknownlight
I swear it's its own freaking genre.

Though be wary of posting here. PM me if you think it'd make for a funny entry here. I don't think I'll be continuing with this story on account of getting bored partway through the second chapter.
Pannic
Back in the Saddle
Good to be back!

I think I'm going to headcanon your theory about Calamity, but I'm going to add on that Littlepip is about ten years younger than him as well, and he sees Velvet as sort of the "older sister figure" for Pip.
Unknownlight
Tears and General Angst. Four Times.
Fo E fics without angst or monologues? Hmm, Pink Eyes, Anywhere But Here, and Memories are the first ones that come to mind, though the latter may still apply if you're picky.
Unknownlight
Good to see that we're returning to Fallout Equestria. I can't say if the comparision to Spec Ops is accurate because, while I played the game, I didn't read the fic. It would be interesting to compare to the original Fallout 3 game though, I mean, more in depth.
RN452
That'd be somewhat tricky, as I'm only a few hours into Fallout 3 (up to the point where Moira's asked me to irradiate myself. Also, she talks to the player as though they're five years old). So I'm only really familiar with certain broad strokes - for example, Littlepip starting the quest by going after Velvet Remedy after she leaves is a parallel to the game, where the player leaves the fault to find their dad.

I could make a comparison there - the father, James, is very important to the plot of the game, because Project Purity was his invention, so searching for him actively advances the plot. With Velvet they find her by chapter 8 and then they kinda just wander around for several chapters until the actual plot shows up in chapter 25.

Also, I'm not really far enough into the game to judge, but James doesn't seem to suck as much as Velvet. That might mostly have to do with the fact that he's voiced by Liam Neeson, though.
Pannic
I'm On Team Red Eye
But that is the moral. Applesnack says so himself that Littlepip's only mistake when it came to Arbu was that she wasn't calm and rational when she murdered everybody (obviously!) She was calm and rational when she executed Autumn, so she learned her lesson! =D

I actually like the way KKat worded it: this story is Littlepip's testimony. I'm assuming that if you were on the jury, you'd find her guilty? Although, considering everything worked out in the end for everybody, I guess the only thing she could be charged for is...I dunno, criminal negligence?
Unknownlight
How Anti-Climactic
Hey, I still like talking about it with you and I'm a fan!

But yeah, agreed on the fact that Littlepip is treated way better than certain others with similar crimes.

And yes, her launching the SPP wihout first using the Gardens of Equestria was stupid.

I thought her being the spark was clever, bu it's undermined if she hasn't found all the bearers by the end of the story (and noi, the epiloue doesn[t count for that).
Sereg (edited by: Sereg)
Yeah w all know just how diametrically opposed I am on, pretty much EVERYTHING about this story. And how i pretty much freaking loathed reading most of your entrees, but most of that was due to you trying to ape Yahtzee, and I just cannot fucking stand him.

Though it did at least get me to write my own blog for it, which will be done soon as well :(

And yeah I think it MORE the deserves the praise and love it's gotten. It is by far one of the best stories period I've ever read and I freaking love it.

As to the differnce between Li'lpip and redeye's plan for he SPP, redeye would have simply blasted all the clouds, and left everyponyo fend for hemselves, Li'lpip kept as much farmlanf as she could intact to give time for the Gardens to be fired, and the reason it couldn't wait till after they had been, was this was the only way to break The Enclaves power. And stop their war, ending the fighting and slaughter long enough to actaully find the ponies.

And yes Spike spent centuries looking, but 1. he is only one person, now they have hundreds out looking. 2. he was looking for a complete set, trying to find 6 ponies that were already a group, or formed into a group and all matched up as a bearer, not for the bearers as individuals.

And if all else failed, Li'lpip could use the SPP to restore more of the cloud farms if needed. Something Redeye would never do.
Seraphem
This is the end, so two questions:

1. Even though it's obvious that you dislike the story, do you actually regret reading it? Was it at all worth the massive amount it took to read and write about it all?

2. Again, you say clearly that you don't believe the story deserves the praise its gotten, but are you surprised by its popularity? There's a big difference there.

Anyway, thank you for spending so much time writing about this all. I loved reading your posts; they sometimes made me think, and they were always hilarious. I'm also glad that you inspired Seraphem to write a liveblog as well—it's not often any book gets two complete commentaries with utterly opposing viewpoints, and I'm glad Fallout: Equestria got one.

Thank you for your time. I'll be following this blog for any other fics you write about in the future.
Unknownlight
I must say that was an enjoyable ride. Since I don't have interest in both series, but thanks to This Very Wiki, I know the overall lore of it, I could enjoy it. I would have to read the original work to form a opinion worthy of debate but, since I won't do this, I guess I'll have to trust in third-party opinions. Perhaps you could expand from MLP, going to other fandoms, I don't know, try to find an equally popular fic that you think it is overrated, or a really divisive one, like Shinji And Warhammer 40k.
RN452
Been toying with the idea of looking at a few Sweeney Todd fics. There might be some fun to be had here.

As for your questions, Unknownlight

1. I can't say I regret it. It's certainly been fun to talk about, and if it's fun to talk about then that makes it worth it, unless reading it were a downright painful experience (which it wasn't).

2. I'm not sure. Things like My Little Dashie and Romance Reports, which I also dislike, have also become extremely popular in this fandom. And Fallout: Equestria, boring action scenes aside, at least isn't forgettable - sometimes it gets that sense of "epicness," but part of me suspects that with the very slow first chapters, it wouldn't have the kind of popularity it does if it weren't a Fallout crossover.
Pannic
By the way, will you be continuing the Murky Number Seven liveblog, or does that not count as something you hate?
Unknownlight
Possibly, but unlikely, as A. I really like it, and B. I read a bit far ahead to do a good chapter-by-chapter summary.
Pannic
Well, mine for FOE is from someone whose already read the whole thing once. So that's not really a stopping point.
Seraphem
Congratulations on the end of an epic effort.

I know I rarely commented, but I enjoyed reading this for the humor (even though, yes, I often wondered how you could come to some of your opinions). And you have made a few excellent points along the way, which are good to think about. I'm glad you've provoked discussion, and I love that you prompted Seraphem's opposing liveblog.

I do hope that you chose to move onto something more positive (maybe Pannic Reads Stuff He Loves?)... I think you'll be happier for it. (And, frankly, Yahtzee-style hatefests are about as fresh and original as the color beige. The Yes-Man thing would have been so much better.)

Do you still plan to write a Fallout: Equestria fanfiction of your own?
Kkatman
I do, though that's slow going as I'm lazy and have other fanfiction projects. I've finished a first chapter what clocks in at about 12k words, and I'm currently working on the second chapter.
Pannic
Closure!
And then there's a bit where she orgasms just at the sight of Homage's crotch.

There are not enough face hoofs in the world.

I still maintain that if the original fic needs supplementary fanfic to build their relationship, something went horribly wrong.

And yeah, those relationships all sound pretty horrifying (Flutters and Celly aside).

As for the future, I wouldn't mind seeing you dissect other fics.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
It doesn't even really add a whole lot to their relationship. It doesn't really show us anything we didn't know, apart from elaborating on a throwaway line that Littlepip made about not liking one of Homage's toy. Littlepip's in the relationship because she's horny and Homage is in it because she's got a raging hero boner. All this really does is articulate it and have Homage go on about how heroes have a habit of falling and stuff, which would probably have more impact if Littlepip hadn't already demonstrated herself to be a massive dick.

You know, one time I was discussing their relationship in the FOE thread on /mlp/, and I was expressing the predictable viewpoint that it was ridiculous that the story was asking us to take their relationship this seriously when it was based on so little actual development. The other person countered with a story about one of their relatives, who very quickly fell in love with a woman, went off to war, and then when he got back he found she'd hooked up with someone else, so he murdered the other dude and then the two of them fled the country or something. And all I can think is "that's not really helping your argument."

People also said that it'd be stupid for the story to waste time on relationship bullshit when Littlepip's got other stuff to do like assassinating leaders she doesn't like or destroying the only functioning large-scale agricultural system in the land, but I'd counter that if the story is going to spend three chapters on Littlepip going on a back-and-forth quest between Gawd and Deadeyes, it can bother to actually develop a character that's supposed to be important and a relationship that it wants me to believe is meaningful. Then again, the story did try actually developing a relationship in regards to Velvet and Calamity, but all that did was make me realize that they were the most annoying characters in the story.
Pannic
Here We Go Again
Glad your liking this one. yeah the writing isn't anything stellar, but as noted, with English not being the author's primary language, it's still pretty decent.

Could do without the potshots at FOE... but yeah we've been over that. Oh as to Cloud Cookoo lander or child like innocence? It's both.
Seraphem
Awesome, you're starting Pink Eyes! I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on it.
Unknownlight
On the road with a kid. Oh boy.
That's sweet. Well, I get the feeling that you'll like this fic, at least. It's perfectly inoffensive the whole way through, except for near the very end. I can't see you ranting about it like you did the original.
Unknownlight
Well, as "inoffensive" as you can get considering the grim and depressing subject matter.
Unknownlight
How Not to Do a Crossover
You forgot Fluttershy's Pet Zergling
CleverPun
You want some really REALLY good corssovers that do it right?

My Little Denarians

The Dresden Fillies

Time Lords And Terror

Mass Effect Two The Equestrain Equation

Doctor Hooves The Series

all great and all nail the combination, both halves of the corssover are treated well, and the reason they come together makes sense and works within both universe
Seraphem
Something Completely Different
Random thought: The (very, very) small amount of Rose Potter quotes you included for some reason remind me a lot of Nictis from Without a Hive. I honestly don't know why I think that, since Nictis is a well-developed character in a fantastic fanfic while Rose just seems like a brat in a poor one, but it was the first thing I thought of.

The difference, of course, is that Nictis is hardly portrayed as being moral at...well, ever.

"I've been there. I've seen all your manipulations. Your little lies. Your sneaky little behind-the-back tricks. Your threats. If I wanted Spark to suffer, all I'd have to do is let you go along, doing your thing. You're a back-stabbing, conniving, soul-sucking witch. And you know what? I may not like him, but even I don't think he deserves something as horrible as you."

If the above describes Rose whatsoever, then I think I've got a pretty good idea of her character. Except that I'm rooting for Nictis, and I doubt I'd be doing the same to Rose.
Unknownlight
That quote makes me think more of Littlefinger from A Song of Ice and Fire. Ahahaha, if only Rose Potter could be as stylish and clever as Littlefinger.

No, Rose is just a petty, sociopathic Mary Sue. I dunno how far I'll get into liveblogging this thing, but fun fact: Remember that part in Order of the Phoenix where Harry tries to use the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix Lestrange because he's pissed about Sirius dying, but it fails? Well, Rose Potter does it successfully! By powering it with love.
Pannic
...That fails on multiple levels. Even before its implication that Harry didn't love Sirius enough.

Who does Rose get into a relationship with? (Since Ginny obviously isn't available.)
Unknownlight
Heh. Well, there will be jokes to make there. Rose doesn't get shipped with Ginny, no, but the author being a heterosexual male who has no idea how girls actually act leads to a fair amount of Les Yay. The author was actually a Harry/Hermione shipper, but Rosey here gets paired up with Cedic Diggory of all people.
Pannic
So I suppose Cedric doesn't die in Book 4? Or does he anyway, providing easy angst?
Unknownlight
Nope. He's clumsily saved and sticks around as a Shallow Love Interest for the remainder of the story.
Pannic
Oh joy.
Unknownlight
Diluting the Magic
You know, that thing you said at the beginning of this reading?

Right now, I would like to look at one such fanfiction that has, for some reason, bizarrely fascinated me for quite some time.

You're right. It is bizarre. This fic is already boring me two chapters in, despite me reading a humourous liveblog of it. What on earth fascinates you about this thing?
Unknownlight
By the way, with the new quotes in mind, Rose no longer matches Nictis. I say she now most closely resembles Violet from the Pokémon fanfic Violet Tales.
Unknownlight
Not That Magical
I don't get it.

How do you take a good book, copy it mostly word-for-word, and make it a bad book?

It's like taking a test with the answer key in front of you and still failing.
Unknownlight
All it takes is a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why the story worked in the first place, and of how stories work in general.

For example, the best thing about the books, in my opinion, was the wonderful sense of humor. Things like the Marauder's map insulting Snape when he tried to read it, or "It unscrews the other way."

We've already seen in this story how the author is snipping away all the funny bits, because apparently fun is stupid. This isn't all that dissimilar to an attempted Avatar: The Last Airbender fic he did, which was also a retread fic with a dumb OC that had the stated goal of toning down some of the more cartoony aspects. Because fun is stupid.
Pannic
Do you have a link to the Avatar fic? I'm morbidly curious.

Good liveblog, by the way.
TheOtherSteve
Sure. It's called The Lotus' Blossum.

He only got a couple chapters into it before giving up. I chuckle a bit at the author's note. If you're going to do a "Methods of Rationality"-style rewrite of the story, why introduce a bland OC? Why not just use Sokka? He kinda already filled that role.
Pannic
If you're going to do a "Methods of Rationality"-style rewrite of the story, why introduce a bland OC?
Because you're doing a rationalist rewrite of a story.
ILSS
Oh, sorry. I read that as asking why you'd add a bland character, when the question was why you wouldn't just co-opt an existing one.

I'd have appended this to my previous post, but I don't know how to edit comments.
ILSS
Ooh, hey, haven't seen you in a while!

Also, you can edit comments by going to the main liveblogs directory, clicking on the number of comments, and scrolling down to your comments.
Pannic
About the copy-paste, I suppose this is against the rules of the site, so much that recently there has been a purge of those fanfics. The Cartoon X-overs section had over 5000 fics. Today there is about 3000 and it still didn't end. Even myself wrote those types of fic in the time I was a burging idiot.

EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't pay attention ot the fact that the fic has been removed from the site.

But, on the case of Victoria Secret, I suppose that could make sense if it were a parody fic, in the style of Airplane, but it's not. Unfortunately.
RN452 (edited by: RN452)
Naked Sues
Argh...this was...just painful. Particularly the Sorting Hat scene (that chapter should've just been called "The Hat"). Methods of Rationality also has a the-protagonist-is-super-special scene with the Sorting Hat, but its version of the scene was hilarious so I can't bring myself to care.

I also take back that stuff about Rose reminding me of Violet. Now Rose just reminds me of a bitch. Do we ever meet this "Sensei" of hers?

I wonder what would've happened if this series continued all the way to Deathly Hallows? That book had a chapter called "The Forest Again", which is quite possibly the blandest title I've ever read. I'm not sure how to make it worse.
Unknownlight
Nope. This sensei never actually shows up.

And it's also worth mentioning how out-of-place it is. This martial arts stuff is all based on eastern philosophy, isn't it? It kinda just sticks out in a setting that's based on popular western depictions of magic and sorcery.

Not like the author delves all that much into eastern philosophy in any sort of meaningful depth, though.
Pannic
Canon Defilement, Character By Character
I tried reading the chapters you sent me. I couldn't stomach it. So it looks like you'll be reading it for me. =D

> "hey, that was a neat idea"

The concept of Snape hating Harry but adoring Rose could have been a clever idea, like you mentioned. Harry reminds Snape of James, who he hates, but Rose reminds him of Lily, who he loves. That would've been a legitimate and fairly creative way that the books would change had Harry been a girl. I was planning on mentioning this after reading the first Snape quote you included...and then you revealed this was written prior to Deathly Hallows.

Man, this story can't do anything right.

Is there any justification for Mc Gonagall adopting Rose considering the reason the Dursleys were taking care of Harry in the first place was because he was protected from Voldemort there?
Unknownlight
Nope. Bear in mind, that revelation didn't come until Deathly Hallows, which I mentioned came out after this was written.

Actually, the story just stopped updating after Deathly Hallows came out, 'cause it shot the fic to pieces. The author had screwed up canon too much to be able to plagiarize and have it work.
Pannic
It did?

...Oh yeah, it did. Huh. Apparently all the books have merged together in my mind.

What prevented Deathly Hallows from being adapted? I can't think of any changes that would simultaneously prevent him from plagiarizing the book without those changes to have significantly affected the books before (and preventing them from being plagiarized too).
Unknownlight
Well, one thing in particular has to do with Rose's relationship with Dumbledore. Rose makes a big deal about how they're so freaking close and it's like he's her grandfather.

Well, then when Deathly Hallows comes along, it turns out Dumbledore really didn't tell her all that much in the grand scheme of things - her being a horcrux, mainly. Not to mention how a big part of that book was how Dumbledore wasn't quite as wonderful as Harry once thought.

At least, that's a possibility. The basic facts are that chapter six or seven of Rose Potter and the Half-Blood got posted, then a couple weeks later Deathly Hallows hit the bookstore, and Rose Potter was never seen again.
Pannic
Huh. That's...disappointing?

I'm not sure.

Is the author still around?
Unknownlight
His most recent thing was some Star Trek Deep Space Nine fic that he started in April, posted a few updates going into May, aaaand that's the most recent activity on his fanfiction.net account. So hard to say.
Pannic
So she wants to be nude so now she's converting to some nudist religion? Does Mc Gonagall believe in the druid religion? She seems to care enough to make sure Rose does. It seems like a dodgy way to go about converting someone Rose has no idea what druids even believe yet, what if they still did human sacrifice's like in some of the muggle fairy-tales she'd have read? It sounds like someone trying to set up a joke based around religious exception but the author does not seem to know humour
Forsite
Serious, this guy needs to watch Diamond In The Rough. But I really found interesting how you analyzed the only interesting thing of this fanfic to be totally accidental.
RN452
You know, the thing about Fallout: Equestria was that it was sincerely fan fiction. The author liked the show and, for the most part, treated the canon characters with respect.
Fluttershy being the obvious exception, there.
ILSS
I'd actually say Pinkie Pie was the one that came closest to the line. With Fluttershy it's less about the author not respecting the source material and more a matter of some of the story's more bothersome shticks, in this case the whole "not wanting to murder things is stupid" thing.
Pannic
Seriously? The story NEVER played Fluttershy as OOC, or ever in the story at all had a "not wanting to murder things is stupid" thing. I, I really have no clue what to say about that.

Again, so, it's bette to let a socipathic murdering rapist, go on raping torturing and murdering, when the only other option is to put them down?

As to Fluttershy, what she did was ENTRILY in character for her. Giving every side something she felt would save lives and end the war. her only issue was being to naive and to unwilling to even consider that her gift could be turned from a defensive use, to an offensive one.
Seraphem
As to Fluttershy, what she did was ENTRILY in character for her. Giving every side something she felt would save lives and end the war. her only issue was being to naive and to unwilling to even consider that her gift could be turned from a defensive use, to an offensive one.

It's worth noting that she did this after witnessing firsthand during the first test that even the defensive version was seriously, I'd almost say irreparably flawed. It caused a catastrophic amount of extra suffering because whoever wasn't already dead got to get up and start shooting each other again. Any sane person would have rethought their approach after such a terrible backfire.

As to Pannic's current review, this almost makes me want to try to get into the actual series again (just wasn't feeling it and I have no idea why, since I did want to actually get into it) so I have more context on where all the characterization is dominoing. >.>
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Except the way she saw her plan going, it wouldn't have mater. neither side would have been able to kill anyone on the other side, either due to shields or healing. So fighting would become pointless.

Was it entirely naive, again, yes, but it's fully in character for Fluttershy.
Seraphem
I find it pretty much impossible to believe that after such a horrifyingly traumatic field test, she would have remained that naive. The story made damn sure to turn all her intentions right around into causing more suffering, shove it in her face, then smear it all over her face like a clump of feces.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Fluttershy is the FOE character I respect the most. So, I certainly see the fic as treating her well.

Then again, I can be weird about these things.
Sereg
Lazier Than You!
To be fair, the Momentum Stopping Curse sounds like D&D's Hold Person (with added ignoring of physics).

On the other hand, what a sue. :P
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
So it's not normal that Neville is forgetful and not especially good at magic because his parents were a powerful wizard and witch, author you seem to have missed the point of the whole series.
Forsite
This feels like a "build up to awful" chapter. Nothing particularly awful has happened yet, but it foreshadows the awful that's yet to come.
Unknownlight
Well, this has been "fun". Glad that I'm not reading the fic.
Sereg
Anatomy of a Sue
You have my respect for being able to keep going with this. Every quote is painful and I haven't even read the original series.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
I'm pretty sure he took the void from the Wheel of Time series, minus any context, purpose or reason to exist other than to make Rose even better without undergoing any character development.
Forsite
What is her "Void", exactly? I don't think you've mentioned it in the previous blogs, but I'm not sure.

I'm also continuously astounded that a real, living person was able to write this without consciously realizing that every change he made makes the story worse.
Unknownlight
It's explained briefly in chapter one; some kinda heightened state of awareness where time (in her perception) slows to a crawl.

So bullettime, basically. Because that gels so well with the established Potterverse.
Pannic
Ah, I remember it now. Forgot all about that. (For good reason.)
Unknownlight
To be fair, the whole void thing is a thing in real life, but not to the superpower extent that this fic likes to ham-fistedly throw around.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Not Lesbians. Really.
Ugh...

UGH.

I don't know what to say here.
Unknownlight
As a heterosexual female, I can confirm that GIRLS DO NOT JUST "SOAP EACH OTHER UP". This author honestly seems to believe that girls act EXACTLY as they do in his naughty films and fantasies.

At least you're not blogging about "Hogwarts Exposed". That's adds yet another slimy and blatant layer of wish fufillment and pedophilia.
Posey
Thank you, Posey.

And yeah... Hogwarts Exposed. I've heard of that one...
Pannic
Eleven Years Old, a Nudist, and a Budding Sociopath
After all this shit, reading Project Horizons may feel like a godsend.
Unknownlight
Pfft. It gets worse. So much worse.

Have fun reading Project Horizons, Pannic. From what I've read of it, I personally find it better and more engaging than the original story.
Posey
Good luck with Project Horizons— according to what I've gleaned from reading parts of it and looking through the Project AFTER thread, it's a meandering, directionless mess of a fanfic that tries really hard to out-grimdark the original.

Of course, it's still infinitely better than Rose Potter, but then again pretty much anything else is.
CCPrime
Well seeing how the original is in no way Grimdark, and is if anything, is the entire antithesis of Grimdark, one of those goals should be easy.
Seraphem
I like how she tries to be smarter than Harry by not daring to open any book she doesn't understand fully, then immediately pulls down and reads a book a soon as it catches her eye...
forsite
Character Development is Stupid
sigh

I'm glad you're reading this so I don't have to.
Unknownlight
"Also, I read something from the author's fanfiction.net profile from earlier in this year. A Deep Space Nine fanfic where a self-insert Trekkie gets into a car crash and inexplicably finds himself in the Star Trek Universe. And here I was thinking that only happened on Fimfiction."

It's because you didn't see the Touhou section. There are so many self-insert that it spawned its own genre, namely "gappy" ficsnote . Or the Mass Effect section, you type in fanfiction search "self-insert" and it returns 110 results saying in the summary that its a self-insert fic, so it doesn't count the ones who don't say it.
RN452
Good to see the author has no sense of irony.

I laughed.

And YAY! Assasinating Neville's character!

(Actually, that "Neville had his memory erased" isn't a new thing in the fandom)
Sereg
Not new, eh? Well, if it was a commonplace in fandom prior to Half-Blood Prince, hurray for the author being more unoriginal!

It wouldn't be the only time he ripped something off from another fanfic. In Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Future Past or whatever that's called, there's this magic gun that comes up what has its own magic cleaning spells and stuff on it to make it more dangerous and effective 'n' shit. The author decided to throw it into his own fic, not that it ever actually did anything as the author apparently gave up once Deathly Hallows was released.
Pannic
A Neutral Mockery
"And now, because I'm a huge fucking nerd, something I found funny."

Oh, for a moment there I thought the fic itself had a funny part in it.

I know, crazy, right? I don't know what I was thinking. I must be way too tired.
Unknownlight
She is using her magic to give touch up her boobs. She is also eleven years old.
Rose is becoming a druidess because it gives her an excuse to be naked at all times. She is eleven years old.

Rose is having intimate totally-not-sexual shower encounters with the girls of the Quidditch team. She is eleven years old.

Rose has her friends pledge their fealty to her, that they might always be able to gaze upon her nude form. She is eleven years old.
ILSS
ELEVEN YEARS OLD
Posey
I OWN Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. So I appreciated that comment.

I wanted to see a nundu in the books.
Sereg
How to Write an Accent
Wow. Yeah. These are NOT the centaurs from the books.
Sereg
>> “the star Seeker and the Keeper, it’s straight out of a romance novel!”

THE STAR PLAYER OF THE ZANARKAND ABES!!!
Valikdu
Truly, a Threatening and Imposing Villain
I don't know how to comment on these liveblogs.

Everything is just so self-evidently awful.
Unknownlight
There was only one truly harmful curse that I knew from Curses and Counter-Curses. It was the Punctio Curse, which shot a hole into an object almost like a bullet.
I'm reminded of Andrew Hussie's unfinished and unpublished Wizardy Herbert, which starred a Harry Potter parody who never really figured out magic, and so just ran around shooting people with a magical gun because he was an uncreative dipshit.

What is the point of a spell that magically imitates the effects of a gun when there exists a spell that can instantly kill anything?

Hell, what was the point of it at all? It didn't work, and the scene ended canonically.
ILSS
Apparently Rose gets credit for killing Quirrell for some reason. I dunno.

But you see, that's the funny thing about this story. Rose has all these super-special powers: metamorphmagus abilities, books of other spells, her druid amulet, Void and her martial arts training, and as the series progresses she gets things like a new super-wand, "beastspeak," teleportation, animagus abilities, more druid magic spells, a golden patronus that kills dementors, supposed mastery of Occlumency and Legilimency...

And yet she never really does any better than Harry, who managed to do everything he did without any of this stuff. Sorta makes you wonder which character is actually "better," despite this story's attempts...
Pannic
For what it's worth, I like your ending better than Halcyon's.
JackAlsworth
The Hair Down There is Most Important
"9. Face"

Face is number nine.

Number nine.

Sure, I can imagine that pubic hair would be #1 (admittedly, if a naked person walked out in front of me, I can imagine that it would be #1 for me too. The difference is that #2 would be "turning around and looking anywhere else"). But to look at a person's full body before bothering to look at their face...

I hate this story so much. and I haven't even read it.

"But I think that can wait for a little while. Let's get back to ponies!"

Hooray!
Unknownlight
This author and their fascination with pubic hair still baffles and terrifies me to this day. It's seriously freaky how much focus he devotes to describing it in the later books.

And yes, more ponies would be lovely.
CCPrime
Also, rail being a "classy" way to travel began in the 19th century; there was no, or at least almost no, passenger service until the 1810s, anywhere.

Oh, and what happened to the Druids being separate from the wizarding world, and hiding from it? Wouldn't you think that they would frown on Rose talking all about them to her friends, or at least that betraying its policies before she even really gets initiated reflects poorly on her sincerity? (Oh, look at that, I almost acted like she was capable of that emotion. Silly me.)
IcyShake
Back to Horses
Wow— well, if nothing else, I have to give it to the author for genuinely surprising me with the Trixie part. Still, reading through this fic, I can't help but get the impression that I'm basically reading all of Equestria Daily and Tumblrpon somehow distilled into a single story.
CCPrime
The whole intro of this chapter is a Fallout: Equestria reference. Remember this part from Chapter 5?

“It’s a thunderstorm. An’ a mighty big one. We best be findin’ some shelter, cuz it’s just gettin’ started!”

“Thunderstorm?” I hollered back as a patch of clouds lit up briefly but brilliantly. “What’s thunder?”

KA-BOOOOOOOM!!!

The sky exploded! It was like the sound of a gunshot, if the gun was wielded by Celestia Herself and was made out of pure awesome.
Unknownlight
I'm with CC Prime on this and that's mostly just with the snippets given here. Save for a few key points, I've forgotten the remainder of the story.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
There's not much there. It's FIM, except Twilight's a dude and the other mane six, Trixie, and Princess Luna all have the hots for him. That's pretty much it.
Pannic
That much I remember. It's the specific examples you gave that I remember making me think "wow, this is just an endless chain of memes".
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
Feature Box Funsies
I admit that I'm writing a fic called "My Little", but the catch is that there IS no "blank". It's just "My Little". Because the missing "pony" is a refference to the weirdness going on.
Sereg
More grammar: _was_ still in danger of returning to _their_ former servitude. Way to keep track of and match quantity within a sentence.

Also, would anyone have gone along with her plan if she had told them it involved preemptive unilateral disarmament? Why doesn't the contract include anything about him relinquishing all claims to the Crystal Empire? And was it enchanted so as to be enforceable, or are they just going to trust him, especially since they've cut down their ability to defend the Empire against him as part of the agreement?
IcyShake
Feature Box Funsies part 2
Wow. That was so generic, it was literally painful to read, even WITH commentary! There's no way that even ponies would go any way toward making it good.
CCPrime
Say, did you ever get around to looking through the rest of this story?
CCPrime
I'm afraid I did not. I gave the author a ring on fimfiction.net and detailed a less scathing version of my critique. He was actually very receptive. So I didn't continue.

However, I'm planning to kick up this liveblog again, going back to the roots.

It's Fallout: Equestria - Project Horizons.
Pannic
All Aboard Again!
Oh, boy, what a treat! More of the never-ending-blood-rape-and-angst train, with commentary from the one dude who can make it all worthwhile! I look forward to seeing more of your impressions of this behemoth. Trust me, you might like it now, but you won't after it starts spiraling into a never-ending, meandering, plotless abyss.
CCPrime
"There are twenty-one earth pony stallions and twenty-one unicorn stallions on breeding duties"

Twenty, not twenty-one. Twenty-one means you're dead.

Man oh man, Project Horizons. I could say a lot about Project Horizons. It's like a hearty, tasty, beef stew that screams in agony every time you take a bite. And not just a single bowl of the stuff, no, more like an entire swimming pool.

I'm eager see you read more.
Unknownlight
Let's see, since you were listing them out, names thrown out also included Scotch Tape, Marmalade, Rivets, and Textbook. I bet I'm missing some, too.

Largely feel the same way you seem to about the chapter.

I hope you enjoy the read.

CC Prime: I can agree with you on "never-ending," "meandering," and "abyss," but "plotless"? Really?

On that note, let me express my hope that, as much as I love it, I won't be this story's "Serephem."
IcyShake
I forgot to say this before: on the mother issue, a few days ago it occurred to me that I don't remember anything about Littlepip's dad. Was he dead or something? Just seemed weird to me that her mom was a whole thing, but her dad was a nonentity. Of course, we know why Blackjack's doesn't much figure in.
IcyShake
I don't think Littlepip's dad is mentioned. Either he died or her mom was just so promiscuous she didn't know who it was.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Was pretty much implied that her mom was just such a drunk, she had no clue who it was.

As to the chapter. Short version, right from the start we see exactly what it is that makes me loathe PH so much. Retconning and twisting aspects of the original, simply to make things as dark, messed up, cynical, and brutal as possible.

The entire concept for Stable 99 and how it is is hideous and revolting, and the way it got there is so contrived and misses the entire point of what Stables were. Turing them in Vaults. Which is one of the things I most hate about any fic doing that. The Stables, were the complete antithesis of the Vaults. That fact was one of the greatest parts of FOE to me.

Yes I could see an experiment like the one 99 started with going through, but Somber seems to forget that every experiment had an 'out'. A way to stop the experiment in it's tracks if it threatened the long term survival of the ponies in the Stable, like this one clearly did.
Seraphem
Re: Retcons and "every experiment had an 'out.'"

1. The story was written before the original was complete. Most likely Somber simply wrote this part and had it published well before that was revealed.

2. An "out" existing doesn't guarantee that everything will work out, as we can see from other stables that ended in disaster. Stable 15, for example, or whatever the one with the computer was.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Originally, no explanation for Stable 99 was given until it was pretty blatantly retconned in Chapter 19. Sometime during the mid 30s to 40s Somber went back and rewrote Chapter 1 entirely to include references to the added exposition.

Of course, this made scenes that had previously been dramatic revelations coming nearly out of nowhere into scenes where Blackjack is shocked and horrified to learn things she'd known from the outset, but that's Project Horizons for you.
ILSS
One of the, admittedly many, things I loved most about the world itself, was that fact the none of the Stables we know of ever failed due to anything other then bad luck. And never due to the actions of the ponies inside them. It was always either an accident, like with the chimera's, or outside forces. The Pink Cloud seeping into Stable 3, the Enclave tearing open, and tearing apart all the pegasi stables they could find for resources. The freaking Steel Rangers......

Even the one Stable where the experiment directly led to the failure, it was also due to an accident. The water talisman getting damaged, and an unforeseen issue with the AI programming. Hell, if i wasn't for nopony knowing about the AI except for that one stallion, the ponies in the Stable might have been able to do something and save themselves. Since the 'out' was still there, and still would have worked, but he was the only one who knew about it.

Even if there was an 'out' which we see no evidence of for 99, the simple fact that this alone of the stables, failed because of the ponies inside turning on each other like that. All simply going along with something so hideous, brutal, and disgusting for a century, for no reason other then, for the sake of having that environment....
Seraphem
"Yes I could see an experiment like the one 99 started with going through, but Somber seems to forget that every experiment had an 'out'. A way to stop the experiment in it's tracks if it threatened the long term survival of the ponies in the Stable, like this one clearly did."

Seraphem, please stop talking about things you know nothing about. Stable 99's original experiment was "This Stable will be all about recycling. Thus, this Stable will need to have a controlled population, as having the population grow too much will cause a shortage of supplies".

The Stable worked perfectly fine for generations. Then, there was a "civil war" between the members of the Stable, which eventually caused the evil overmare to decide that all males will now be used solely for breeding.

That's it. That's why. Stable-Tec had no say in this, they couldn't have possibly predicted this, and there was nothing they could've done to prevent people from being power hungry.
Unknownlight
It's made worse by the fact that I'd just stated that an explanation was given.

That said (and as previously said), the explanation was something of a retcon on Somber's part that he's since gone back and written into the beginning of the story. If Seraphem ever actually did try to read Project Horizons, he may have read the original version in which it appeared to have been that way from the outset.
ILSS
I'm going with the version of events that Somber told me directly about why it was the way it was.

And it still twists the entire idea of what The Stables were, just so that the story can start out already that dark.
Seraphem
@Icy Shake: Well, okay, "plotless" was an intentional exaggeration— it's more like "takes a really long time to cut to the chase".
CCPrime
Déjà Vu.
Interjections in the narration again. Just like in the original.

Wait, what are you referring to here? What's the problem?
Unknownlight
Things like "…Okay, what?" that occur in the narration.
Pannic
Why would Spike just talk to them like that? he's made clear he's rather cautious about who he reveals even his existence to.

All he's seen is two random ponies running away from raiders. Before he approached Li'lpip he had seen her keep her cool in a firefight. Free herself, and the immediately stop to try and help save the other prisoner with her rather then run off and save herself.

Seen her reaction to just what the 'help' got her, letting the pony who tried to rob her for saving him go unharmed after stopping him. And seen she was rather quick witted, and could adapt quickly. he'd seen her in action at least somewhat before talking to her.
Seraphem
[up]He means the "Okay . . . what?" It's one of those things that can break the flow a bit, similar to asides that sometimes go into a different tense than the rest of the narration, e.g. "I have to admit," where the rest is in past tense.

Oh, and I don't think it will be spoiling anything to clarify that Blackjack often refers to other characters by the weapon they carry, or other notable characteristics; she didn't know the guy's name, so she called him after his sawed-off shotgun.
IcyShake
Oh, and I vote HP.
IcyShake
Meh I like the asides in FOE, and they fit with what the story was. er telling the story, with explanation of commentary.

Hell given the end, that is LITERALLY what it was. Her simply replaying the last few months of her memory and making commentary while doing so, then sending the memories and commentary to Homage who tried to convert the two into a single story.
Seraphem
^ I was talking about PH. I don't remember the color commentary in Fo E well enough to comment on it specifically. For all that I brought it up, it's not the kind of thing I particularly noticed in PH until I started doing detailed rereading.
IcyShake
Things like "…Okay, what?" that occur in the narration.

Oh. I like that stuff in first-person stories. =/
Unknownlight
What he said. It's simply a good use of the First Person aspect of the story. And, most importantly to me, makes sense in verse.
Seraphem
^^ The interjections and asides themselves I often enjoy, as I do think they can positively contribute to the narrative voice and the narrator's state of mind, but not the cases of tense divergence.
IcyShake
You were spot on, Pannic. This was Fo E 2.0. Part of it was because I didn't have a CLUE how to start a big story, so I was basically framing mine exactly like Fo E. I thought, at the time, that was how Fallout stories are supposed to GO! I didn't really think into what Raiders were, only that they were ridiculously over the top violent and decorated their homes with reeking body parts. Chapter 3 of Fo E really set Raiders for me and I just went with it.

Looking back, if I could do it again, I would have made the raiders more like the various gangs that pop up later in the story. Violent? Sure. Territorial? Yeah. Evil? Sure. But I wouldn't have made them crazy or tried to justify it as I did. Bullet Holes and Slug really changed the way I think Raiders SHOULD be portrayed rather than how we saw in chapter three of Fo E.

Unfortunately it's not until chapter 6 that PH diverges significantly from Fo E... hope you'll bear with me.
Somber
Well, pretty much everything major about the chapter's been said already— character moments, parallels with the original fic, yadda yadda yadda...as for the vote thing, I say the Harry Potter one— those kinds of badfics are always worth a good laugh.
CCPrime
I'm aware that this chapter, like the first one, was revised, though not to the same extent. What it changes I do not know.
Off the top of my head, some dialog was added, some altered, and the entire fight against U-21 and the raiders at the farmhouse was added.

He won't use guns because he's concerned he'll murder Blackjack.

So instead he blows the raiders up with a big grenade.
He wouldn't be able to stop himself from killing her if he had a gun, but explosives are just fine.

People have made fun of this for ages because it's ridiculous, and it only gets sillier as the story continues. What's more, it's not something you're ever allowed to forget, because it gets brought up constantly during dramatic character moments.

Anyway, it's the reason for the U-21 scene. People laughed at P-21 going on and on about how he wouldn't be able to restrain himself if he had a gun despite following Blackjack through hell and back while lugging around a grenade launcher, so Somber went back and had him shoot her in the back the first time he gets his hands (mouth) on one. There, see? Now we've seen that he's serious about that. Problem solved.

It might be the best example of my opinion of the revised chapters: toss a fight scene in where there wasn't one, and then fix something in a way that actually makes it worse.

ILSS
The whole "guns bad, explosives fine" thing was something that struck me as really odd, though someone explained it as something about how a gun would be easy for him to shoot on impulse, whereas explosives are something that need to have thought and care applied or else he'll blow his own legs off. Yeah, it's a stretch, but I can see the thought process in there.

But adding a fight scene where one didn't exist previously? Shame.
Pannic
Why is the Chapter Title and Header Aligned Left?
I don't have anything to say, but I'm pitching in a comment just to let you know that I read your liveblog.
CDRW
Project Horizons has a very Project Horizons-y feel to it. I find these early chapters interesting simply because they have the characters interacting and doing stuff before the Project Horizonsy-ness hits. It get gets better once that happens, but it becomes a noticeably different story.

Onwards to further Horizons! Fare thee well!
Unknownlight
You hit on most of the points that stood out to me. Silver Spoon was one thing I enjoyed about the chapter, and I likewise thought that the P-21/Blackjack "teacher" scene was a good one, but apparently I found the way he pointed out that there wasn't anything Blackjack wanted to do that being forced into security kept her from doing to be more memorable.

I didn't think so much about the difference in how Watcher handled Blackjack, in large part because it'd been so long since I read Fo E.

And, yes, this chapter and the next couple are relatively short and perhaps less dense when compared to the first and later chapters.
IcyShake
So yeah... how the hell would they know about The Enclave?

And, yeah that, sounded... nothing like Spike, at all, and, your also right, made no damn sense for him to be that interested that quickly.
Seraphem
Pretty sure that the surface folk knew who the Enclave were. They've got posters up - recall that Calamity sees one and gets pissy about it. Murky Number Seven also operates under the assumption that the ponies know who the Enclave are, which is the source of a lot of racism Murky faces.
Pannic
Yeah, I was not really sold on this. But, I wasn't for FOE at the time either, so I have to give it a chance.
Sereg
No, they didn't see anything about the Enclave. The poster was a war time bit about the pegasus military, but nothing about The Enclave, since that didn't exist until after the war. It simply made Calamity make a remark about them. The only way anyone on the surface could know about the Enclave prior to their arrival, is having talked to a Dashite, so it was hardly common knowledge. Especially not to the extant some street rat would feel the need to include them in a list of factions given they have no presence, no barring and no, anything at all to do with the surface. So yeah no reason he should know about them.

General unease and resentment toward pegasi, I could see, but The Enclave specifically.. doesn't really work.
Seraphem
The Wasteland ponies know that pegasi live above the clouds, that's firmly established. Whether they know anything else about them, or that those pegasi are called "the Enclave" is another matter, but I'm not picky enough to care.
Unknownlight
Actually, no, Wastelanders probably do know about the Enclave. After all, Homage knows about the Enclave, so I'm sure she's talked about them in her broadcasts at some point.
Unknownlight
Despite there not being a note anywhere stating that edits have been made, I'm pretty sure portions of Chapter 3 were rewritten at some point. I don't have a copy old enough to check. As you noted, P-21 is more supportive and open towards her than makes sense, because Somber rewrote their exchanges in the tone he’d gotten used to over the course of several dozen chapters of character development.

You know, I notice that a lot of this story so far involves BJ needing to have men (namely P-21 and Watcher) tell her what to do.
You're a perceptive guy. Three chapters of one fic, and you've noticed an undercurrent that flows through all of Somber's writing.
ILSS (edited by: ILSS)
Set Phasers to Moan
Lol! Thsi si still amusing.
Sereg
So, again missing the whole point of how The Enclave operated. ANY pegasus who went to the surface was irrevocably contaminated. The entire way they stayed in power was making sure every pegasus believed this. And the Enclave needed them to believe that, going to the surface meant instant, brutal, painful death. That there was no hope yet, nothing TO go down and help, they had to wait for things to improve.

Nopony would even know there WAS stuff below the clouds worth helping aside from the very, very few patrols that the Enclave send down, who were forbidden from interacting with the locals, and just to observe and return. hence why every Dashite we know of, was an Enclave officer, who went below, saw how it REALLY was, and actually wanted to help.

The Enclaves whole power base was based on this fact, on keeping ponies believing this lie. They would never do anything like this, because that would be admitting that things were not as bad as they need ponies to believe they are. the whole POINT to setting off the SPP was to show the pegasi the truth.

So, before this, minor character issues, some oddities, tonal things that just make no sense to be in the same verse... but, made it to chapter four before doing something that fully and completely shows the story doesn't care about the actual facts of the story it was based on.
Seraphem
If this were actually in the story and not the backstory I'd be worried I was reading a soap opera.

Oh, don't worry! You'll get to it soon.

I don't think this really meshes well unless Glory's wrong and the Enclave isn't doing shit. That seems most likely.

Nah, this is just a retcon of FO:E. In PH, the Enclave is a regular Wasteland faction that has ground bases and does trading with Wastelanders. Yes, it's utterly contradictory, but you'll soon see that PH puts very little effort into sticking with FO:E canon, besides the Broad Strokes. And that's totally fine—it's its own story after all—but it still annoys me whenever people think that PH is canon.
Unknownlight
It's not 'fine' if it tries to pretend it actually takes place in the same verse as a story, who's facts it is altering for it's own ends. If you are basing a story, on an existing one, then you have to either

A. Don't alter things, and keep true to a story you are basing your own off of.

Or

B. Flat out admit you don't care and call it 'inspired by' "AU to" something to show that you fully admit it is not the same 'verse and your story cannot exist next to the other. While still having some similar elements.

Not try to get the best of both worlds. Alter anything at a whim, while still acting like you are perfectly in line with the story and totally able to be canon. You do NOT retcon another persons story, just for the sake of your own.
Seraphem
Seraphem, fan fiction in general often alters or ignores canon in order to tell its story. Fallout: Equestria itself falls into this category, as FO:E sure isn't a logical extension of FIM.

Project Horizons is a *fan fiction* of Fallout: Equestria, with all that that implies. It can hardly be more clear than that.
Unknownlight
... "Project Horizons is a fan fiction of..."

Stupid Reddit markup. Stupid not being able to edit posts...

Edit: Oh, so you have to go to this page, then click the comment number. That is seriously one of the most unintuitive implementations I've ever seen on a website, ever.

Unknownlight (edited by: Unknownlight)
Fallout: Equestria itself falls into this category, as FO:E sure isn't a logical extension of FIM.
Don't tell that to Tam.

Also, comments can be edited. You go to the main Liveblog page, click on the number of comments, and then you can edit yours.

Also, fuck. I thought I updated the blog with my Partially Kissed Hero bitching, but it didn't go up. Well, at least most of it's safe.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
The comment number is unclickable. You sure that's not a privilege reserved for the original liveblogger?
Unknownlight
It doesn't matter fan-fiction or not. If you are basing your story on an existing one, you do NOT retcon things. You do not alter the facts of the existing story. You either keep those facts the same, or admit your story is not in line with that one. That it is an AU, a 'what if' something.

FOE, did not alter any of the actaul facts presented in the show. Did not retcon anything.

PH, says.. nonononono that story, the one I'm based off of, here's how it REALLY happened.

Kkat, kept as close to the existing story as possible, did not alter things, but worked to make sure everything was within the bounds of the facts laid down. Respected the work they were using.

Somber, does not even try, ignores facts, alters them, all while saying this is perfectly in canon with FOE, that this was what REALLY happened. That his is the REAL story.
Seraphem
It's fanfiction. None of it is real.
Pannic
Yes it is. Not in a "this really happened" sense. But in that it exists. Whether or not the events in a story really happened, it does not make the story itself any less real.

You do NOT base your work on an existing story, and then use it to retcon the facts of said story. Ignore anything you want, change things to better suit your own story.

If your story cannot be connected to the existing one without any changes to the existing one needing to be made, then you do NOT connect it. By it's very nature, it is not able to be part of the same story. Either you make sure YOUR story complies to the established facts of the world you seek to set it in. Or you set it in your own world.

Doing what Somber does with PH. Slamming YOUR story into another one, taking it over, trying to say "No no no, here's what REALLY happened." Retconing things to suit your own story is one of the worst, most insulting, most disrespectful things I can think of an author can do to another.
Seraphem
No! Because it's a fan fiction! That's what fan fiction does. That's what FO:E did to FIM (it slammed ponies going to nuclear war into a series where that would never, ever happen). Somber does not claim that Project Horizons is canon to FO:E, and he never has. It's his own story, existing self-contained within itself, and he can do whatever he wants with it, just like Kkat did with FO:E, or any fan fiction writer does with any story.
Unknownlight
No, FOE didn't retcon anything. Things changed yes, but they were not retcons. It didn't go back to already existing events, and change what happened in them. That is the issue. Not adding onto a story, but going back, and using yours to erase part of another and supplement yours in it's place. THAT is retconing.

It's his own story, existing self-contained within itself,

That is the issue, it isn't. He choose to link it to another story, to make his story, part of another one, and then proceeded to butcher the original whenever he felt it would benefit his own.
Seraphem
No, FO:E doesn't retcon any part of FIM. It is, however, contradictory in spirit, because nuclear war would never happen in FIM.

Project Horizons occasionally retcons parts of FO:E, but mostly it's just contradictory in spirit. (This is in comparison to something like Murky Number Seven, which isn't contradictory in facts or spirit.)

From your statements, I assume that you must find factual contradictions (retcons) worse than contradictions in spirit, but I also assume you don't like either than much. So, I ask you: Why does FO:E gets a pass for uttery and completely butching the Fallout game series, in both facts and spirit? Kkat cherry-picked the parts she liked out of Fallout, and threw away the rest, making sure to completely ignore the themes and style of Fallout as well.

And that's fine. Because it's a fan fiction. But don't rage on Somber for him doing stuff Kkat is FAR, FAR more guilty of doing.
Unknownlight
Because Kkat gave explanations for why things changed. It wasn't just "Oh suddenly this is different." All the changes, the why, made sense to me, I could see how those changes could take place. It was a gradual process. It felt natural. You could see how things got from what we knew, to what was going on. Because all of it made sense withing the narrative.

because nuclear war would never happen in FIM.

Not as it is now. BUT, FOE gave, at least for me, a plausible reason why things changed. What could drive things to that point. And because I could see those actions being done. Not in a 'this is the only way it could have happened" deal but, in a "This is certainly one plausible way".

And to me, no it isn't contradicting the spirit of it. Not on the whole. Yes the characters did stray, did go to far, but for all the right reasons. It was losing sight of the spirit, of those virtues, of what made Equestria so amazing that led to it's downfall, that led to the horrors of the wastes. Ponies forgetting that spirit. And it was only through rediscovering it, being willing to fight for it, that things improved. It's a glowing affirmation of just how powerful, how important the spirit of what the show is about IS.

Versus. What PH does. I've had plenty of people, including Somber himself explain everything that went into making Stable 99 what it was and, I can not see any plausible way things could turn into.. THAT. The alteration to spirit, comes not as a result of natural evolution as things change in the story. But, is forced in, just for the sake of changing it. Which, is hardly the only one. And then, when combined with all the factual retcons, which, there is no excuse for. Spirit can be up to interpretation, facts are facts. (And some of the things he himself has said.) It gives me the impression, he just doesn't care about the original story, beyond how he can use it for his own.

So, I ask you: Why does FO:E gets a pass for uttery and completely butching the Fallout game series, in both facts and spirit?

Because while she used some elements of the games, the actual narratives had no direct connection, it wasn't taking place in that world.

I DO tend to, preferably, treat every story as it's own, self contained world. Only making connections from that, to ones that the story itself establishes a narrative connection to between itself and another story. Links the events of both as happening together.

PH does this to FOE

FOE does this to MLP, but does not do this to Fallout.
Seraphem (edited by: Seraphem)
All the changes, the why, made sense to me, I could see how those changes could take place.

Here's the problem. Your response mostly boils down to "I like the way Kkat altered canon, but I don't like the way Somber did".

Let's pretend that I'm someone who didn't like the alterations FO:E made to canon. I hated the way Kkat made Pinkie into a drug addict, and I hated the way she died before she could redeem herself. I hated the way Kkat turned Trixie from a boastful entertainer into an evil goddess trying to cause the genocide of ponies. I hated how Kkat made Celestia into an ineffectual leader who gave up on her ponies the moment she felt some despair, despite canon Celestia willing to fight against Discord's reign of terror, banishing her sister after she went insane, and calmly ruling Equestria alone for a thousand years. Kkat's Celestia gave up because some ponies died, despite Equestria needing her more than ever. I hate how Kkat turned the beautiful land of Equestria into a war-torn world far more evil and corrupted than even the worst of humanity has ever fallen to.

So, let's say I hate how Fallout: Equestria butchered the world of FIM, and, not only that, but I also hate how some fans have the gall to say that FO:E is a "natural progression" of FIM. I say: No it's not, it completely contradicts everything about FIM.

I hate Kkat because "[she] choose to link [FO:E] to another story, to make [her] story part of another one, and then proceeded to butcher the original whenever [she] felt it would benefit [her] own."

What would you say to me if that were actually my opinion?
Unknownlight
Knowing me, go down those point by point, and give a detailed reason why I don't see it that way. How it makes sense within the context of the story.

And to address the more direct issue, comparing that to my feelings for PH, it's lacking a few things to be completely accurate. And being just why I have such the reaction I do. The FOE-MLP changes, yeah those could get that reaction from someone. As could the, and does, the PH-FOE changes. The issue is how they are handled, not just what they are.

Everything FOE changes, it does so after the fact. Everything the happened in the existing narrative, happened exactly as it did, no changes, all of this was changes that occurred to the setting afterwards. A possible future. PH, goes back and alters the past. Takes existing events, and changes them. Says "No this isn't how things really happened, THIS is." And then add on, that all the FOE changes, are all tonal, spirit. No actual existing facts were altered. Made to be different then they were. PH, not so much.

THAT is the core of the issue. PH going back and altering existing events. Changing the narrative it is using for it's own purpose. Not in a, "those things happened, and then this happened after" way like FOE does. But in a "Those events didn't happen like that, they really happened like this." way.
Seraphem
Kkat doesn't seem to have minded too much, given he/she gave the fic a stamp of approval and is by all accounts friends with Somber.
Pannic
The "approved" tag had nothing to do with the story itself. All the approval was for, was for giving PH it's own separate update slot on EQD. Rather then being lumped in with the monthly FOE side fic update post.

But treated as any non-FOE related story is.
Seraphem (edited by: Seraphem)
For god's sake, I could write out this argument by myself.

UL: But in FO:E, there's plenty of stuff that doesn't line up with canon, like Twilight not being an alicorn. And that's fine, of course, because FO:E was planned and written before these changes happened. This applies to Project Horizons too. PH was planned and began being written only a few months into FO:E being published. The only major outright violation of canon PH has is the whole Enclave thing, which was planned before we knew all the details of the Enclave (which didn't come in FO:E until around Act 5).

Seraph: But PH's whole plot revolves around there being tons of secrets during the war, and Goldenblood was the guy actually behind a lot of things/ that happened in FO:E. Those were all deliberate retcons. It's Somber saying "What you read in FO:E isn't true. It really happened this way".

UL: But none of Goldenblood's secrets actually outright contradict canon, they're merely additions. Yes, it's contradictory in spirit, because FO:E never suggested that politics during the war were nearly as convoluted as PH makes it out to be, but you already said that contradictions in spirit aren't the problem—outright retcons are.

And on, and on, and on...
Unknownlight
And Spike leaving his cave to save Blackjack. Big Mac being shot by a weapon that didn't exist yet and completely invalidated AJ's entire reason for making the Steel Ranger armor. Him being an Equestria wide famous war hero, BEFORE getting shot.

And I didn't say changes to spirit weren't a problem at all, but that those are at least arguable, that it could just be differing interpretations. To a point. The shear amount of THOSE in PH. And then the ignoring/changing facts as well added on top. More then passes the point where he's even trying. And on top of THAT, the simple fact of going backwards to alter the past in the first place. And in a way that is not an admitted 'What if" or 'Maybe" but is framed and treated as it being the 'true' way things happened.

As to canon differing over time. There is a difference between writing a fic based on an ongoing, open ended show like MLP is, where no one knows where the end will be, and there is no single overall, pre-plotted story. And Something that you know will be a finite, planned out, completed, self contained story. AND Kkat adjusted the story as new canon emerged, tried to keep it as close as possible as new stuff came out. And yeah the Discord thing could have been done better, and already went over how the RCV armor was a goof, but the important part is, she tried.

Even THEN, there is still doing something like what Sereg did with his fics. (Non-FOE related.) He tried his best to stay in canon as he went. But eventually something happened in the show that he simply could not fit into the canon of his stories. So, he simply said flat out and admitted. "These are an AU to the show now." Admitted that no, the story was not directly, narratively tied to those stories, but rather it's own separate entity, related to, but not connected directly to the show. That his story was impossible to fit in the other stories canon.
Seraphem
Admitted that no, the story was not directly, narratively tied to those stories, but rather it's own separate entity, related to, but not connected directly to the show. That his story was impossible to fit in the other stories canon.

But that's what Project Horizons is. It is an AU. Somber says that it's not supposed to be canon to...

Ugh. Actually, can we just agree to disagree? I'm tired...
Unknownlight
I've never seen or heard him say that. Every time he talks about the retcons, it's always about why, about it makes much more sense his way, about how it's impossible things weren't the way he pictured them. Never just flat out admitting, his story is impossible to reconcile with FOE's story.

But yes, it's even less disagreeing and more, just trying to explain WHY this thing gets such a reaction out of me.
Seraphem
I'd rather get comments on the shitty Harry Potter fic I reviewed. Come on, I wasted a lot of time on that.
Pannic
Pannic: Lurky lurk. We can chat on IRC.

Seraphem: I'm curious. If we assume for a moment that you're 100% correct in your assessment of Somber and his take on Fo E's canon and themes, what would you suggest he do to rectify things? I'm seeing a whole lot of complaints here, but not many suggestions.
Snipehamster
Honestly, I agree with Seraphem that FOE's "altering of canon" didn't change anything we knew at the time when the fic began. A retcon is something completely different ad as a bit of a canon whore, I am also less than pleased when a fic seems to retcon stuff for no apparent reason without admitting what it's doing.
Sereg
Harry Twatter
I'll do you one better on the parenthetical: it isn't even parenthetical. The sentence after it relies on the content in the parentheses.
IcyShake
Harry Twatter pt 2
For fuck's sake, it BURNS! I don't know how you stand it.

Honestly, to me the funniest part was the paragraph-long sentence last chapter. For everything else I can see a person—who doesn't understand a thing about storytelling—writing these words, but I don't even understand how that sentence was possible.
Unknownlight
I see you have a fondness for choosing stories with sociopath protagonists. And I can usually read the story bits you quote, but this made me give up before the halfway mark on any of the longer parts.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
"The train piled on the steam," George Orwell does not approve of this metaphor. You can't pile steam on things; it's a vapor.

"It was a very subdued school who met for the Welcoming Feast in the Great Hall, and though the Headmaster's declaration that Harry would recover did serve to improve the mood somewhat, it never did become a festive atmosphere." Come to think of it, why aren't the dementors removed from the school if this happened on the first day? You could brush it off when it was just that Harry had a worse reaction, but with them trying to murder a student? Then again, apparrently attempted murder isn't expulsion-worthy in this story, given the Malfoy thing.

" 'Fudge's term of office was over before ten o'clock that morning, as public outcry was nearly insane. His senior undersecretary Dolores Umbridge and most of his administrative staff were removed with him, as his term of office came to an abrupt and very nasty end.' I don't think politics works that way." Do they even have a parliament? And why would this be a no-confidence level fiasco?

"The dementors got withdrawn from around Hogwarts by the interim Minister as detrimental to the very purpose they'd been placed there for, and were gone before Fudge was even out of the country." Okay, I was wrong to assume that some of the major plot points and interesting things about the book would be carried over. Silly me. Wait . . . why's he leaving the country? He lost his job; was he deported, too?

"Harry himself was ill prepared for conflict. Having been maltreated and abused his entire life, he did not have a strong sense of self to rely on." Possibly because he had just discovered and adopted a new identity a few weeks ago?

"If the blood magic of his mother's sacrifice had been functioning properly, a victory by Voldemort's soul fragment would have been impossible." "Functioning properly." Also, "blood magic." It wasn't anything she did intentionally, and I thought the relevant factor was that she gave her life for love, not that they were related.

"But that was scarcely any guarantee of victory as Harry's mind had to learn to defend itself on no warning, finding itself thrust into battle where it had to fight for it's very survival from behind steadily disintegrating shields. " Is it his mind or his soul? Is there still a difference? Make up your mind (soul)!

"And it was not exactly well-outfitted to do so. Having discovered much about his parents that summer gave Harry a sense of belonging for the first time ever, really, and having studied so long and hard had done something for compensating his prior weakness, proving he had a drive if only he wanted to use it." Fuck. That. Noise. Because he _never_ felt belonging with Hermione or Ron, or the rest of the Weasleys. He never did shit to get ahead or solve anything. Nope.

"Harry's background made him so weak to start with, while Voldemort had such an edge on strength and experience, that phoenix song alone could not guarantee Harry's triumph." "Background" just comes off as weak here, and I loathe the simple application of "experience" in general, but here it's made worse by the fact that it doesn't make sense in the first place.

Also, does Harry even know that Voldemort's original name was Tom Riddle at this point?

"Actually, the prophecy may have had a hand in that. Voldemort was supposed to "mark him as an equal," not give him a guarantee of Harry's destruction." Why is the narrator spouting crap Harry doesn't know yet? Did it read the script? What's that on the ground?

"As Voldemort's soul fragment dissolved under the attacks by Light energies upon it, the personality of it was utterly vanquished, while the skills and abilities simply went fluid and became absorbed by the victor, in this case Harry, making him, at last, Voldemort's equal in a very magical way. " Way to miss every single point. Conflict? What's that? REAL protagonists don't need to grow over time or face adversity!

"The boy had also done a substantial amount of growing up, mentally speaking, as part of their conflict. Underdeveloped places in Harry's mind had been a favored target of the dark lord, as weaker than all others. The only effective counter for those attacks had been to develop those weak points until they were as strong as the others, even if he'd had no other option but to copy the pattern for those developments out of Voldemort's own mind." Growing up that we never get to see. Growing up that might just have been an interesting story. Glossed over with a dull, vague paragraph.

Okay, I guess Harry did know that stuff. That fact does not, it turns out, make things any better.

"No. It didn't," Harry interrupted. "According to Hogwarts founding charter, I have two weeks into the term to decide whether or not to change classes. I first gave you notice weeks ago in the summer, then again a couple of days ago." He handed back the list. "Please return with my correct schedule." This is stupid. First of all, that doesn't seem like the kind of thing that belongs in a charter. Second, it could be revised. Third, assuming it's still valid, why did it become a plot point, and why doesn't everyone know about that?

"His friends were both staring at him, shocked to find him so assertive." I think he got the wrong word starting with "ass."

""I don't want to take Divination, as I'd rather take the same courses my mom did before I was born. They sound more useful, and I'm no longer interested in easy grades." Ron started shaking his head. "You're giving up an easy O, you know that?"" Did the author forget what he had written the paragraph before? If he needed the "easy O" line, why not split Harry's part so that the "no longer interested in easy grades" is a response to that?

""No." Harry shook his head. "It's good until next year, and I'd really rather keep my options open in case you decide you'd really rather not live up to your end of our deal, or in case you pull some other stunt that demands a change. So I'll just hold onto it."" Why? You got it in the course of a day this time. How would needing to fill out some paperwork and abuse your owl one more time really serve as a meaningful obstacle to transfer?

"His expression collapsed further when Harry stood, and saying, "Oh, and I was the one to recover this, not you," took the sword of Gryffindor, and left the office." I couldn't tell you when I first wanted to punch this Harry; I think it was before you asked. But this is the exact moment I started wanting him to choke on the sword.
IcyShake
Here's a story for all to enjoy.

Once upon a time, I saw this over on Bash.org, in which somebody took excerpts from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone and replaced the word "wand" with "wang". This amused me, so I did the same to literally every use of the word throughout the entire series.

And that's how, despite not even being a Harry Potter fan, I came to know everything about it and also burned myself out on it pretty well, explaining why I really don't have much to say about these blog posts.
ILSS
Change of Scene
Despite the sort of pseudo-clone syndrome going on, I'm finding just the discussion of P-21 and Glory here more interesting than Velvet and Calamity in the original. Not really sure about Blackjack vs LP, though, which is almost interesting in a meta way, because LP doesn't set a very high bar.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
"Vanhoover"? Let me guess: New Vegas trade location at Hoover Dam made of a bunch of vans, which Megamart is, I suppose, based on? On my first read, I was thinking something else, since it also works as a horse pun, and I've been trained to see them more than other ones.

They recognize her because she has "Security" written on her barding. Sure, there could be other unicorns out there with something similar, but I think that this is a smaller example of narrative convenience that probably shows up pretty frequently across media.

I didn't know that the "casserole" bit was an NV reference; I've only played 1 and 2. Now I feel a little silly for not knowing it. But I thought it was one of the better-integrated references in early Horizons, in any case.

Yeah, there are some real similarities between Glory and Velvet, but she's more Missed-the-Joke than Prissy Whine, and I think tends to be less passive-aggressive.

Oh, you did take up my suggestion, at least for the chapter! Well, I won't give anything away, but you did get through the scene with the Rarity figurine.

I thought that the way Four Leaf wasn't made an acronym a little weird, myself. There isn't a good reason from a protocol standpoint to have her name not abbreviated, since her association with the author would identify him. Best guess is it's that same familiarity which breaks out in full force with the farewell note.

I know it happens, especially in the stuff you liveblog, but really, how can you have a story (or at least a plot- or character-oriented story, as opposed to one more focused on, say, atmosphere) with protagonists who never fuck up? Seems terrible. But I guess that's why it shows up here.

(But how does that work in HP, in particular? Harry blows it all the time, and the supporting cast does, too, if perhaps to a lesser extent due to the structure of the story.)

Anyway, I enjoyed it as ever and look forward to the next installment, whether that's more PH or HP or something else.
IcyShake
Oops. That's a Freudian slip on my part. Vanhoover is the location in my shitty fic. I'm gonna fix that.

As for the Harry Potter remark, let's just say that a lot of terrible fanfic authors who turn Harry into a Gary Sue who breezes through all his "problems" with nary a conflict.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
Oh, okay on Vanhoover.

As for HP, I get that that happens. But I have to wonder whether it's something that the authors are aware of; do they think that getting through everything without much challenge is a feature, or do they believe that their characters really are facing meaningful difficulties? I guess it probably depends on the author, and you'd need to read between the lines of each story's presentation to really make that call.
IcyShake
From the author's notes on Partially Kissed Hero, the author does seem to genuinely believe he's got an epic conflict going; he frequently talks up how dangerous Dumbledore is as a villain (despite the fact that he's frequently shown to be more or less impotent as Harry frequently trounces and murders him).

But really, I think that what it comes down to is that they put so much of themselves in the protagonist that they can't bear to have anything bad happen to them. The hero always has to win. The concept of the hero losing, or better yet, being the cause of their own problems, seems a foreign concept.
Pannic
So, the entire basis of the classical tragedy?
IcyShake
WOO! DEATH!
This is as far as I've read. I'm told that this means I can handle the rest, but I've just had other priorities.
Sereg
I’m going to take a wild guess and figure that this was the point Somber ultimately decided against making P-21 into Blackjack’s love interest.

lol
Unknownlight
Eh, I'm almost surprised it wasn't a semicolon: for some reason I've never picked up on, he likes the [sentence]; [sentence fragment]. construction, which I've rarely seen elsewhere, except for another FOE side fic to which PH was apparently canon.

Heh, "decided."

One point I'd contest is that I don't think that being tempted to do something, and then not doing it, makes you a dick. But that's probably just a matter of perspective.

Anyway, I'm glad to see the update!
IcyShake
One point I'd contest is that I don't think that being tempted to do something, and then not doing it, makes you a dick. But that's probably just a matter of perspective.

That is a good point. I'm just saying Blackjack has an awful lot of parallels with Littlepip, and, well, I thought it was a funny joke.
Pannic
Didn't he say at some point that PH was original Fo E 2.0 until a certain point in the story? It would explain why Blackjack is so similar to Littlepip, anyway.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi
"Wait, as in, Nurse Redheart? But here she's Doctor Redheart? Huh? I'm pretty sure Doctor isn't just what happens when a Nurse gets a promotion or something."

Maybe the intention was that she was studying for medic while working as a nurse?
Connelly
When everyone was looking, Blackjack killed forty foals. She killed 40 foals. That's as many as four tens.

And that's terrible.
ILSS
Could also be that she got a PHD in public policy or something. But you're right; the more common path is from RN to Nurse Practitioner, which has most but not all of the privileges of physicians.
IcyShake
Moar Feature Box
Interestingly enough, I don't think I can say that anthro Spike harem is new to me, since there was one ("Spiked") in "John Perry vs. the Featured Box" last week. Granted, it was also tagged "slice of life," which frankly it sounds like this one probably could have been too.

In my unbounded charity to the author, I'll offer that the colon could be made to work, given a few other changes. Try "For several reasons, the beach was one of Spike's favorite places: the cool water against his skin, the warm sand to lay* upon. Girls in bikinis." I even think that the last sentence as a fragment would have worked as a means of emphasizing the final item if the first phrase after the colon had been one as well, matching the other two, rather than an independent clause as it presently exists.

IcyShake
We Come Full Circle
I have nothing to comment on.

Groundhog Day is an awesome movie. Fittingly, it gets better and better the more times you watch it.
Unknownlight
Personally, I much prefer all-joke movies. I don't like it when comedy and drama mix. I even felt that Spaceballs had a bit too much drama in it.
doctrainAUM
Raider Haters
You know what this story reminds me of?

The Unexpected Love Life of Dusk Shine (Fallout: Equestria edition)
Unknownlight
...holy shit, you're right.
Pannic
No Bioshock Jokes, Part I
I tried to read the book. The keyword is "tried". After 170 pages or so, I gave up - surrendered, really. I'm both religious and a big believer in social democracy and other leftist policies, so you can imagine how convincing the book's arguments were. It was annoying to read "liberals" who could think of no practical reason to use taxation, while I could think of several, despite never taking an economics course.

Even ignoring my personal philosophies, the book was horrible. ALL the characters were both bland and completely unsympathetic (especially John Galt, who thinks that sending a country of 250 million+ people down the toilet is an acceptable side-effect of helping the rich). Rand kept presenting behavior that, while certainly not inhuman, are certainly far less likely than she seemed to believe. Like a theatre critic saying that society has evolved beyond the need to admire great people. I can imagine a few people saying this, but the author wants you to think it could be a majority viewpoint.

By the way, I love your review. Keep it up. This story sucks.
doctrainAUM
Yeah, sounds like putting the date on it was a really bad call unless they also did stuff to make it clearly an alternate reality.

Yet another issue with the real world is that right now the largest shareholder, CEO, and Chairman of the holding company of one of the two largest railroad companies in America is a Democrat who agitates for higher taxes on the rich and has committed to donate most of his wealth to charity. The company has been doing fine and has been regularly making domestic capital expenditures well in excess of depreciation.

I think the best way to sum up the thing about how companies care about their image and reputation is the old saying "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM."

People don’t like bankers! That’s where we get pervasive antisemitic stereotypes! Or is it the other way around?

The other way around, but once it got started I'm sure it reinforced things too; it's not hard to resent the people you owe money to.

"If you wanted him to be some kind of stodgy liberal, wouldn’t it make more sense that he’d object to growing the company so he can stay a “small business”?"

"Small Businees" is the Right's thing, now.

Actually, in a way, James has the right idea when it comes to wanting to work in places that aren’t ‘Murica (granted, Mexico is pretty past the “developing” stage, but I’m just talking about his rhetoric).

"Emerging" is where it fits now, I think.

There are limited growth options available. But if you go to developing nations or places like India, where you have a rising middle class full of educated young people, you can get a lot of growth and a lot of money. Wasn’t this film was written by a businessman? Is my college edumacation just steering me wrong here?

I think this is another example of where giving a date was harmful to the movie: Mexico used to be more of a nationalization risk, but now it's pretty much a subscriber to the Washington Consensus in good standing.

So then we got stuff about a “Fair Share” bill and an “Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog Act,” which is good for James Taggart ‘cause he hurts his business rivals and I almost get the feeling that if the movie were actually trying for some sort of, like, political intrigue thing, this might be a step in the right direction.

Okay, I can give it this: there were New Deal programs that tried to get companies to compete less on price in order to stabilize and raise the price level and profits as a whole.

Can't say I've ever given the story a shot, but when one of the few things I know about it involves a long speech that includes some goldbugism, that's not a selling point.
IcyShake
that's not a selling point
Objectivism in a nutshell.
ILSS
No Bioshock Jokes, Part 2
Man. I can't believe in many places I'm defending this. What's wrong with me?

Here goes:

Maybe they bought new lines other people built? But if they were so bad, where were they getting the money?

Attention everyone: we have outlawed mutual funds. Holding companies are fine, though, you just can't pyramid them and there's no intercorporate limited liability. Oh, and insurance companies and pension funds can only invest in bonds now, maybe real estate. Sure, you can still get synthetic exposure through the options and futures markets, but given how we've f*cked the liquidity of the underlying instruments, I don't know how much good that'll do you.

Probably 2010, when Berkshire Hathaway completed its purchase of BNSF. Granted, I'm almost exclusively a text-based news consumer, so I wouldn't have actually seen it on the "news," but it surely got at least MSNBC play.

Nobody thinks like this. You know what a big fat liberal government usually does when the economy is going south? They try to encourage more production. You know, like how FDR did all those government programs to put people to work doing things like building and agriculture jobs?

In fairness, this was probably referencing the Agricultural Adjustment Act (and maybe some other similar ones), a New Deal program that subsidized farmers not to plant. The goal was to raise the price of crops so the industry could be profitable.

Nobody talks like this. Nobody thinks like this. Nobody has ever balked at the social danger of a company producing a product that is too good.

Isn't that the basis of the Luddite movement? That mechanization was producing a product too well, too cheap, and with unskilled labor, thus forcing skilled artisans out of work? It's never been very reputable, but it is an opinion people have. We're now seeing the same thing with robots.

I mean, good point. If they're so evil and antipropertarian, why not just seize the factory or whatever overnight? There'd probably be records and stuff. Buy off the technicians if you have to.

Would "Department," "Bureau," or "Office" really have been that hard?

My best attempt at guessing the answer: everyone in government has been so mollycoddled they don't even know how to run an authoritarian state.

Fun fact: even the largest railroads in America only span half the continent. BNSF is Chicago and west, plus a small branch to Alabama, UP is pretty similar. Norfolk Southern is in the east, only going as far west as Kansas City. Etc. There is Canadian National, though, but the transcontinental part is all in . . . Canada.

IcyShake
The Luddite connection kinda makes sense - there was a deal in Anthem where the dystopia banned light bulbs 'cause it'd put the candlemakers out of work, but it doesn't work here because it has no basis in actual existing policy. Heck, Rearden's company is a big industrial thing. Wouldn't that help get people employed? It's not the same as the robots and automization of the workforce because there's no indication that Rearden's metal would put the laborers out of business.

And if stuff is based off of what FDR did, that kinda makes sense, but that's just another example of how setting this in 2016 substantially dates the story and makes things not make sense.
Pannic (edited by: Pannic)
I'm not sure. It kind of seems like much of this is throwing everything at the wall and hoping it will stick to the Left. If that's all you have then you need to use it, even if it hurts the story's coherence and relevance.
IcyShake
No Bioshock Jokes, part 3
It's like a clarification of my comment on the first post in this series.

"If it weren't for government meddling, we'd be paying our workers in pennies, and safety would never stand in the way of profits!"

"That's not really a selling point."
ILSS
And then Rearden gets a phone call. Turns out that the government passed the "Equalization of Opportunity Bill." Rearden is furious. He says "I'll sign away my other companies, but they are not getting my metal!"

Wait, why would he need to run multiple companies? Couldn't he consolidate them into, like, one unified "Rearden Industries" thing? Sounds like a pretty easy way out of this mess. Just merge your assets. Merge your assets you fuck!

I mean, like I mentioned in the last update, your standard C Corporation is a collectively-owned entity.

And furthermore, what kind of businesses are these? They don't appear to be C Corporations, but thing alike "Inc." and whatnot indicates that it might at least be a partnership or something.

"You're busy, I'll be brief. We're not going to allow you to run that train on the John Galt Line."

Then another restaurant. News thing. Dagny's addressing reporters, saying the train will go 250 miles per hour.

The dialogue comes back when they start talking about oil. Wyatt's found an untapped reservoir of oil in a place that'd been considered "dry" to conventional drilling.

Scene ends, aaaaand will this music please shut the fuck up? It's trying way too fucking hard. Just shut up. You're allowed to have moments of silence in your film. You don't need to fill every second with the fucking orchestra.

Rearden and Dagny decide they'll take a getaway up to Wisconsin to see that engine. On the way, Rearden explained that the company failed because of their wage policy. They paid people according to their needs, not their contributions.

The only issue I have with the In-N-Out Burger example is the use of the irrelevant federal minimum wage ($7.25), rather than California's ($9.00).

Those great industrialists like Carnegie and Rockefeller weren't just titans of the businessworld, but they gave shittons of money to charity, Carnegie because he felt it was his responsibility as a rich person, and Rockefeller because he was really religious. And that continues today with people like Bill Gates. Guy thinks he got his money by a series of lucky circumstances, so he gives back to malaria research.

Your thing works by generating static electricity? I dunno about this electrical engineering stuff, but doesn't that sound a little inefficient or something?

Then Dagny gets a call from Eddie saying that the Union is demanding that all the trains on the John Galt Line be reduced from 100 to 60 miles an hour. Umm, it was 250 miles per hour in this movie, screenwriters. You might want to double-check. Did anyone proofread this script? Anyone?

So we get a nice shot of Dagny facing the fire as the camera zooms out, and written on a sign is "I am leaving it as I found it. Take over. It's yours." Pardon my skepticism when you claim that Ellis Wyatt found his oil reserves on fire.

Sounds like an avoidable train wreck, on the whole. But the question is, could it have both worked as a movie meant to appeal to real people rather than sociopaths and the incredibly greedy who want a philosophical cover while also pushing the themes and (a-)morals that were the driving force? I have to assume that it's possible, but evidently this wasn't the movie that accomplished it.
IcyShake
Oh yeah. Loads of environmental destruction. In all fairness, if you ignore that and you suppress your mental connections to Kuwait, it's at least good as a big "fuck you." I mean, sure, it collapses under thought, but at least it's memorable.

Actually, now that I think about it, how the fuck is Wyatt going to carry on his oil business in "Atlantis"? Is Galt going to give him land to drill on? Like, he's abandoning tangible assets he has in exchange for... what, exactly? I'm so confused.
Pannic
But the question is, could it have both worked as a movie meant to appeal to real people rather than sociopaths and the incredibly greedy
You could try, but greedy sociopaths are kind of the target audience.
ILSS

The bigger issue I have is just how they'll manage generally. If it's not completely self-sufficient—which would suggest they'd need more than just rich guys and servants—they'll need to import a ton. How will they do that? How can it hold up in the long term if they are essentially abandoning their means of income? Even if they are leaving their companies intact to live as rentiers, isn't going off alone all at once just making expropriation easier? Is there a logical connection between their actions and the outcome they are trying to achieve, and if so, is it coherent? If they are self-sufficient, doesn't that mean that they're all taking a big hit in income? You can't amass billion-dollar fortunes in a closed economy with a population of a few thousand; there just isn't the demand base or the labor. And for all their self-importance, I'm pretty sure these magnates just aren't as productive as they think they are, and are even less so if they lose their capital and the labor operating it.
IcyShake
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