All Comments
A Liveblog of Ice and Fire: Book the Second
Introduction
You've got Sandor and Gregor's names mixed up, and Renly had a few significant appearances in Game of Thrones. Other than that, great job remembering this incredibly complex story (and it only gets exponentially more complicated from here).
Eegah
Oh, and I've got to also say, I loved your Game of Thrones LB and was very disappointed that you apparently quit after it, so this was quite exciting to see. Especially now that I've read the whole series to date and can laugh even more at how unprepared you are for some of the turns the series takes.

Also, you should definitely check out the HBO Game of Thrones series, which is a very faithful adaptation and I've heard even made fans of people who didn't like the books, due to just giving us the story without all the digressions about what food everyone's eating and such.
Eegah
...

...

OK, how did I mix up Sandor and Gregor? *Hits self in head*.

I saw one episode of the TV series, and I wasn't terribly impressed. It wasn't bad by any means; I suppose the story is just too complicated to work on screen. I know that I had some trouble following everything, and I'd read the book; my dad, who'd never heard of the books and was only watching because he's a fan of Sharpe, was completely lost.

However, I will agree that it was indeed a very faithful adaptation.
VampireBuddha
I think you need to refresh your memory-The recap is incorrect in some places (for example, the throne is taken not for the power [not just for the power, anyway], but because the prince had kidnapped Ned's sister, and the king killed Ned's father and brother when they came to the capitol to say "no"; Cat leaves Bran after a failed assaniation attempt, and he woke up later; the order of the main plot is wrong...). For the record, fansite/wiki "tower of the hand" got chapter summaries, if you are interested.
132.64.36.189
A few more corrections:

Jorah didn't steal food to feed his starving family; he sold people who had poached to feed their starving families to slavers. He's pretty unrepentant about it, too.

Maesters are doctors, scribes, and scientists, not priests. Septons are priests.
silver2195
I figured that was just a sarcastic description about how Jorah's crime was so sympathetic.
Eegah
^Actually no, I just misremembered. This is why I wanted my original liveblog.

Anonymous and silver: Thanks for the corrections. I figured that I could find chapter summaries on the Internet easily enough, but I'm also afraid of spoilers.

Although I am aware that I didn't present the main plot in entirely chronological order; I think I was trying to keep the various threads as continuous as I could in the description, though I suspect there are a few outright mistakes in there.
VampireBuddha
I'm fairly sure Arya is younger than Sansa. Yep. At the beginning, I believe Arya is 8 or 9, and Sansa is about 11. The Baratheon motto is "Ours is the fury". The maegi who betrays Dany is called Marri Maz Durr. Anyway, personal opinion: if Dany is mary suish what the fuck is Jon? This makes me mad.

Anyway, nice work, but you did get a lot of the things wrong or missed some bits/didn't realize the importance of it.
186.212.247.40
Yes, Arya is younger than Sansa. And the Baratheon moto is Ours is the Fury. Also, Jorah wasn't exiled for stealing food, but for selling slaves.
Sligh
Also, Maesters are not priests. Priests are septons. Maesters are more like wise-men who specialize in various areas of knowledge.
Sligh
Daenerys still have other Dothraki with her, her mostly children and women who chose to stay even after Drogo's death. The three "blood-brothers" to Drogo are not the only ones (the other are unamed, though).

Also, "Prince Who Was Promised" is not Dothraki for anything, it's a Targaryen thing.
Sligh
Chapters 0 - 15
Roy Dotrice in the audiobook pronounces R'hollor as just "Rollor," like there's no apostrophe. Martin has said that everyone's free to come up with their own pronunciations as far as he's concerned, though with his personal involvement with the TV show, it contains all of his own preferred ones. The major surprises for me were Ba-RATH-ey-on and Tar-GARE-yen.

Mirri Maj Duur was burned on Drogo's funeral pyre, as part of the blood magic that hatched the dragons. "Only death pays for life."
Eegah
Oh, right. Forgot about that bit.

Interestingly enough, I decided to pronounce Baratheon and Targaryen the same way Martin prefers; still broke with him on Daenerys and Viserys, though.
VampireBuddha
Again, maesters aren't priests at all. The leader of the Faith is called the High Septon.
silver2195
Regarding fat and thin people in Westeros, this can arguably be considered Reverse Fridge Horror. As awful as Westeros is, people eat better than in the real Middle Ages...at least in summer. Things are probably rather different in winter...
silver2195
^^I know, I just forgot about that one little bit when I C&Ped this great big post.

I do have to wonder why they have to take vows of celibacy. What purpose would that serve?
VampireBuddha
Chapter 16
And you've met Mors Umber's nephew the Greatjon in the last book. The guy who gets uppity about being led by Robb until Grey Wind bites off two of his fingers.
Eegah
Oh, I remembered Greatjon Umber; he's actually appeared in book 2 a couple of times, but hasn't yet done anything I thought was worth describing.
VampireBuddha
Chapters 17 - 19
You're a bit off on the Martells; not surprising given that they're a whole new family to worry about. Elia was Doran's sister, who was married to Rhaegar Targaryen.

Arya discovering she's been captured by Gregor was one of my major Oh Crap moments of the series. Can't wait to see it in the show, though the impact may be lessened a bit from his being recast.
Eegah
Chapters 20 - 23
Go back to the last Tyrion chapter and read what he says to Pycelle, Littlefinger, and Varys very carefully. There's a reason that "One. Two. Three." is called Tyrion out Magnificent Bastard-ing Littlefinger himself in a single chapter on the series' CMOA page.
Eegah
Oh, I had an idea what that meant, all right. I've read a few chapters more, and now it all makes sense and is entirely self-consistent.
VampireBuddha
Chapters 24 - 28
Great Brick Joke here, with Shagga having spent all his scenes in the last book going on about cutting people's manhoods off and feeding it to the goats. And now we find out that by manhood he meant facial hair.
Eegah
Chapters 29 - 48
Yeah, I had a feeling that bit by Melisandre would put you off her.

R'hollor IS the Lord of Light; the Lord of Darkness is his opposite number.
Eegah
True, although I've sometimes suspected that Melisandre has been getting her power from the Other all along without realizing it. It would explain why Melisandre's version of Lightbringer is so different from Thoros's, among other thing.
silver2195
The Bloody Mummers had switched sides for much more than twelve hours. If you noticed, when the free Robett Glover and the other prisonners, they are not surprised aat all, and Robett even mentions Amory Lorch paying a visit to the Dreadfort. Introducing them into Harrenhal as captives was only a ruse to trick Amory Lorch and jump on his forces from inside the fortress. All Jaqen did was help, but Arya had no idea.
79.81.140.70
Oops, replace the first "Amory Lorch" with "Vargo Hoat". By the way, is there a way to not display my IP on comments that are already validated ?
79.81.140.70
Actually, the "Aegon" referred to in this chapter is Aegon VI, Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell's son who would have succeeded him had Robert's Rebellion not happened. Yeah, Rhaegar was a bit...obsessed with the PTWP prophecy.
Synchronicity
Chapters 49 - 53
To be fair, I don't think Stannis would self-identify as an atheist. It's just that the other characters don't perceive him as truly believing in gods on an emotional level.

Also note that certain classical philosophies came pretty close to atheism.

And I remember reading about an important late medieval or Renaissance king (perhaps a Holy Roman Emperor?) who was said to have once declared that Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were all lunatics or frauds.

Sandor Clegane's attitude is a bit less plausible, but keep in mind that he's an extreme cynic who sometimes seems to say things for shock value.
silver2195
Regarding Stannis: Stannis stated outright earlier in the book that he didn't believe in gods because a storm drowned his parents, and he doesn't believe a loving god would do that. That might make sense in a modern Christian nation where we're constantly told that God is all-loving, so bad things happening would run counter to that. However, given that one of the gods Stannis used to worship is a warrior, the idea that each of the Seven is completely loving and just is a bit of a stretch.

As for classical philosophies approaching atheism: When I use the word, I mean it in the sense of not believing in any sort of divine being in any way, shape, or form. From what I can gather, said classical philosophies would be more like deism; ie, there is some sort of god who presumably created the universe, but he has no further input. I could easily accept Stannis thinking that whatever gods exist don't give a damn, but concluding that they don't exist is rather a big leap of logic for someone with the information he has available.

As for Sandor, granted, he is a bit unhinged, but I would have thought "The gods are evil" would have more shock value than "The gods are nonexistent".
VampireBuddha
Chapters 54 - 56
It was a risky move reducing Jaime to a One Scene Wonder in this book, but it's pulled off really well. The whole time you've got in the back of your head that you haven't seen this fairly important character from book one, and then he shows up and you're instantly reminded why he was so engaging. I'm curious how the show will handle this, as I imagine they wouldn't want to pay a major actor's salary just so he can hang out for most of the season before showing up here.

A big piece of Fridge Horror in that last chapter: given Theon's musings about how he would have sex with the miller's daughter, he might have killed his own son.
Eegah
"A big piece of Fridge Horror in that last chapter: given Theon's musings about how he would have sex with the miller's daughter, he might have killed his own son."

That never occurred to me before. Wow, Theon was a pretty awful person in this book.
silver2195
...Jeez. Theon's even more evil than I thought.
VampireBuddha
Chapters 56 - 60
George R.R. Martin himself has been tasked with writing the episode of season two that will cover the Battle of Blackwater Bay, and thus he can't pass the buck on figuring out how to make his epic naval battle into something that can be filmed on the show's budget. I don't envy him right now.

"They say I'm half a man. What does that make all of you?" Possibly Tyrion's best line, and I can't wait to see Peter Dinklage deliver it.

Tyrion started out the book musing that Meryn Trant was the most dangerous person in the Kingsguard, as you can never tell what he's thinking. So that's a great payoff.
Eegah
"So, in spite of all the crap that's been piled upon her, Sansa still clings to the notion that there are true knights other than Dontos. Eddard must have kept her very sheltered indeed."

Let's be fair. Brienne, at least, is more or less a true knight.
silver2195
Been interesting reading the liveblog, there's been a couple of errors/things you've gotten wrong. (in the actual narrative, not in the "predictions you made that are wrong" sense, although obviously you've done those too :p)

It's interesting how Jaime gets more sympatethic when we gets inside his head, while Cersei gets less, but I agree about her scenes with Sansa in this book being great.
Arilou
@Eegah: I'm guessing they'll use CGI. Lots of CGI.
VampireBuddha
Mandon Moore, not Meryn Trant. And while i'm at it, Shagga, Timmett and the others were never wildlings, they're mountain clans from the Vale of Arryn, in the east rather than the north.
79.81.140.70
Chapters 61 - 68, Appendix, and final thoughts
Just a note, these last chapters have a LOT of little thing that will cm into play in A So S.
Arilou
TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy