(guest): I think Mary Whitehouse deserves a mention here, but I'm not sure how to go about it..

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Working Title: Complaining About Shows You Dont Watch: [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=6f5lci2b&trope=ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch From YKTTW]]

DrCyclops removed the following: "He [Mark Twain] is arguably the Maddox of the nineteenth century." The implication of that statement is that Maddox is the Mark Twain of the 20th/21st centuries, and such a statement is utterly unconscionable. If nothing else, it calls the intellectual soundness of the rest of the entry into serious question.

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LordTNK: I would have called this "Bandwagon Bashing", but the point of the trope isn't people bashing en masse. It's people bashing who DidNotDoTheResearch.

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(deleted lines here, as it was not a discussion, and just a troll trying to fill up space with his/her ranting)
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LordTNK: Moved the CD-i and Virtual Boy to the bottom, because they were the last examples, and that is where you put new examples.
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* ThisTroper admits to putting Richard Rahl of ''TheSwordOfTruth'' into the tropes/Pantheon section as the God of MoralDissonance, despite the only exposure to that series being this wiki and links from this wiki.

{{Kerrah}}: I knew it! When reading the whines about the books on this site, it's often clear that the whines are based on reading "the books have things X, Y and Z, which are bad" lists instead of reading the books themselves. One common example is the often-cited "main character kicked a little girl in the face" example, which was actually done '''DURING SAID GIRL WAS SLOWLY TORTURING HIM AND TELLING HIS LOVED ONE WOULD BE RAPED, TORTURED AND KILLED'''.

Seriously, the books have their lows and stuff, but I'm getting vexed at some of the ignorance the whiners show.
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Austin: While I agree that people should at least give something a chance before bashing it, remember people, "I don't have to drink it to know it's poison."

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Danel: I removed the following example, since the history of the phrase is rather more complicated than this example would allow.

*Anyone who uses the Phrase "Uncle Tom" as an insult. Nearly 100% of the time, they haven't read the book. Uncle Tom is the best-protrayed people that has ever been written. He was a Jesus character if there ever was one. Yet his name is used as an insult.

[=Bones=]: That sounds like either a definite troll or a dumb kid.

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TheNifty: Holy crap, this page is poorly written. As it stands it's not so much "Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch" as; "Wahh! somebody dared to criticize a work of fiction I liked! They must not have read it or they'd love it ''just as much as I do''".

BTW, I've read TheSwordOfTruth series, {{Kerrah}}, and it gets off ''lightly'' on this wiki. Hardly any mentions of the appalling fetishization of rape that made me stop reading it.

{{Kerrah}}: YourMileageMayVary. I liked them, you didn't. Treating them as objectively bad equals saying that I'm wrong about having liked them. What was the first rule about opinions my mother taught me again? Oh yeah, you can't have a wrong opinion.
-->"Treating them as objectively bad equals saying that I'm wrong about having liked them."
* [=Bones=]: That is as of right now the stupidest coherent sentence I have ever read on the internet.

LordTNK: A wrong opinion is possible, but it would have to be special circumstances. Let's say the opinion is based on a fallacy. Take someone claiming apples are better than oranges because they are fruit. That opinion is already looking shaky.

Kerrah: You know what I mean, chewbacca defence -user.

OffSide7: I'm not convinced any of the pop music examples should count, since most people HAVE heard the examples listed, or at least have heard the hits (which should, supposedly, be the best they have to offer.) You hear pop played on the radio in other people's cars, in stores, in the gym. It can be unavoidable for many people.

Austin: It's hard to say for sure in a lot of cases, but some of these examples do look more like "I like, they don't, therefore, they didn't watch it."
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Jotun of Boredom: Is it me or is the Zero Punctuation section(under SSBB) turning into an example of ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontLike?

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TheNifty: Months later and this is still full of, as {{Austin}} puts it; "I like, they don't, therefore, they didn't watch it.". We really have to do something about this page to make it more objective. Maybe put "JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CRITICIZED YOUR FAVORITE SHOW DOESN'T MEAN YOU NEED TO WHINE ABOUT IT HERE" in gigantic flashing letters.

Kidding, but this really is a whiny, poorly written page.

DragonQuestZ: Some of the examples, but that doesn't mean all of them.
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Dark Angel Cryo: Removed this tl;dr bit of natter as it isn't really this trope and is full of {{did not do the research}}:

** Bad as they are regarding this trope, the Bible's detractors are nothing compared to many of its supporters. I'v actually read the entire bible multiple times, and have studied large portions of it extensively and in depth. The significant majority of the views self-proclaimed "Biblical Literalists" cling to, insisting they'r based on a "Literal interpretation of the Bible", literally are not in the Bible. For example, footballs for professional American football are made out of parts of dead pigs. Mosaic Law, the ONLY part of the Bible to carry ANY condemnation of homosexuality, puts such sexual behavior roughly on the same level with just handling, let alone playing a game with, dead pig parts. Not that modern football players are such horrible people, many parts of the New Testament, most concisely Hebrews 8:13, clearly state that Mosaic Law is no longer in effect, having been depricated ("made obsolete") roughly 2 millenia ago. "Christian" fundimentalists don't seem to have any problem with professional football (so long as the players' extra-marital affairs are all heterosexual), but are consistently in the vanguard of protest every time someone openly gay gets elected, gets their own talkshow, or is shown in a favorable light in a movie. Note the general absence of any extensive Jewish presence at such events; ironic, as, theoretically, they'r the ones who don't believe in the validity of the events which obsoleted Mosaic Law, and are therefore still living under it.
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InsanityPrelude: Made a TroperTales page and moved the personal examples over there. It was hard to figure out where the line was in some cases.
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Necromas: Personally I find people complain that professional wrestling plays out like a so bad it's horrible soap opera more often than that it's fake. And it being fake is a legitimate point if your argument is that it looks downright silly to anyone who knows a little bit about real fighting techniques, and how they fake their injuries and fatigue is particularly narmy.
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Durandal: Does anyone find the mass deletions by [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlexxpmjrh25rbg?action=diff ACustodian]] inappropriate? Using yourself as an example and giving a personal opinion on someone's example are totally different things, and he mostly just deleted the latter, which I have seen plenty of on various pages.

AnonymousMcCartneyfan: Let's call them unsavvy. We are trying to get rid of all the {{ThisTroper}}s, and many of the things he cut included that phrase. But it does seem like many of the things he cut could've been just depersonalized. I'll see how much I can restore...
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{{Rebochan}}: I pulled the Vista example because their wasn't anything in there about this trope - it was just people enacting the trope (i.e. Complaining About OSs They Don't Like).
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Clockworkchaos: I know we're trying to keep discusion off the main pages, so I'm gonnna put my opinion here

* Some have read the infamous rape arc in Dominic Deegan, and didn't like it. But they seem to try to invoke this trope when they leave out in their complaints that the rape was all but literally at gunpoint (he had to sleep with her or she would be killed as an orphan) and that the orc culture didn't even consider it rape (the way even our culture used to not consider it rape if it's a husband taking a wife). Those that do address those points, since there can be legitimate grievances against those (Anvilicious for one), don't count as this.

Err WHAT THE HELL? Specifically the "orc culture doesn't consider it rape bit" while acting Anvilicious is the only(or at least biggest) legitimate grievance detractors have. Not, say the idea that just because a culture doesn't 'consider' it rape doesn't mean it isn't?

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ManWithoutABody: Can someone please clean up the music section? Mostly it's gotten to the point where it's just "people hate my favourite band; they are wrong to do so," without any reference whatever to whether or not these people have listened to it. Or if there is such a reference, it'll be "If they listened to it they'd see that it was good." And there's too much {{natter}}.