!!![[foldercontrol]]

[[folder: Programme Note: ]]


!!!Hats off, for a moment. The premise of this section of the wiki is that the theories being offered are being taken seriously, at least by one nutcase. If you are tempted to make an entry refuting a theory, the discussion pages are there for that purpose. The article itself should be used for tongue-in-cheek "proofs" and "evidence" supporting the theory, or for yet wilder theories.

!!!Some folks have been missing the joke, so we've put up this programme note to make it clear. You may now put your tinfoil hat back on.
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{{Seth}}: Keeping a tally for... research purposes.

''Last Updated 1st July 07''\\
Header: Description: Tally
# Real Identity: A character is not what he seems: 9
# Political Agenda: A character or the writers have a secret political agenda: 7
# Alternate Realities: The entire universe is different to what we have been led to believe: 6
# Other 6
# Afterlife/Dead: The entire series is a form of afterlife or a main character is actually dead: 6
# LukeIAmYourFather: One character is secretly the parent of another: 5
# Delusion/Fake: The entire series is either a delusion of a main character or in some other manner fake: 5
# AGodAmI: A main/supporting character is actually god: 2
# PlanetOfTheApesEnding: A series takes place in a post apocalyptic earth: 1
# In The Future: A character will grow up to do/be...: 1

Just thought it might be fun to see trends in these theories.

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{{Daviot}}: A friend and I had a conversation concerning Haruhi Suzumiya. And thus I found it necessary to plant a redwood-sized epileptic tree.

{{Fencedude}}: This is an AWESOME idea for a page.

FastEddie: Pulled ...
--> After noticing the Fan tropes section's nebulous beginning, I thought we could sway some potential flack with this fun exercise.
... on account of the first-person thing .

{{osh}}: I'm glad folks like it, though I had hoped it'd stick to the fairly plausible..

{{Pro-Mole}}: This is a great page, indeed. I hope to see it grow and grow...

LooneyToons: In which case, it's time to put this puppy into alphabetical order, so people can look up their favorite series easier.

Umptyscope: I like the one about ''us.''

{{Seth}}: It didn't take long for this to be one of the most awesome pages on the wiki.

{{Tanto}}: I'm tempted to put the "dual timelines" theory of TheLegendOfZelda continuity on there, but a) it's a fairly widely accepted theory, and b) I don't really understand it. It's too bad ''Ocarina of Time'' is such a great game, because it wreaks complete and utter havoc with the series's continuity.

{{Seth}}: The RuneSoldier one is widely accepted as well, it's still Fannon so there is no reason not to put it in.

{{YYZ}}: Re: RuneSoldier: It's pretty obvious what they're trying to imply, but nowhere in the canon do they ever come right out and admit it. - And now that I think of it, this could apply to that whole issue from TheSlayers about Naga being Amelia's long-lost sister. They keep ''hinting'' at it, but they'll never actually say it.

{{Tanto}}: Actually, [[WordOfGod Hajime Kanzaka]] confirmed the Naga/Amelia thing.

{{Scrounge}}: Umptyscope likes that one, huh? Now we meet the ringmaster behind this little circus. Tie him up and stuff him with Marshmallow Peeps until he talks!

{{Seth}}: Such a cruel and unusual method of torture... [[FlexibleTourneyRules I'll Allow It]]

Umptyscope: I make no claims to leadership here; I'm a monkey hammering on a keyboard, same as everyone else in this room. Besides, Peep Torture won't work on me -- my modem is nowhere ''near'' fast enough.

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{{Seth}}: Added my own spin to the Haibane bit - i have thought about, debated and studied that series far too much in the last few years and those are the conclusions i came to.

TheDefenestrator: I thought the Haibane Renmei section was pretty much widely accepted, with the exception of the Haibane working to pay for their sin- the theories I've read say that the Haibane's rules are to keep the humans from resenting them. see http://denbeste.nu/Chizumatic/tmw/HaibaneRenmei.shtml#0015
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{{Burai}}: Yeah, I know, we're openly encouraging EpilepticTrees here, but still I have to question this:
--> Heroes -- "Save The Cheerleader" refers to Jackie Wilcox, the character who takes credit for Claire Bennet's actions: Her presence in a variety of events is completely irrelevant to the main plot of the series, but it will be later revealed that she will save the world from alien invasion. Or at least she would have, if her brain hadn't been eaten. As it is, the main characters bolloxed it all up, and the world will die.
"It's not a lie unless they have proof", the file says. Well, they have proof. Future-Hiro explicitly confirms that "the cheerleader" he tells Peter to save is the one who regenerates, i.e. Claire, since the reason for the message in the first place is really to prevent Sylar from gaining that power (not, apparently, that he actually needed it...).

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{{xwingace}}: I've moved the DoctorWho example to its alphabetical position, and added a speculation there of my own. Spoiler tagged because it contains information from the current season.
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MorganWick: Should we add something to LawsAndFormulas that "as the size of the fanbase and the fanon grows, and as more EpilepticTrees theories are proposed, the likelihood of a theory involving "souls of the dead" and/or purgatory approaches one." After reading the second TV Tropes one.

{{SAMAS}}: You could, but really I only put that one up because of all the other "Souls in Purgatory" guesses. I originally wanted to say that there was an unhealthy obsession with purgatory, then that one hit me.

LooneyToons: I am ''so'' tempted to put up one for ''GilligansIsland'' along the lines of "The castaways are dead and in Purgatory, because all the other kids are doing it this season..." (More seriously, I vaguely remember a wild theory about ''GilligansIsland'' along the lines of "they the victims of an experiment being run by the professor", but I don't remember the details -- has anyone else heard this one?)

Umptyscope: I remember years ago, someone saying each character in ''GilligansIsland'' represented one of the Seven Deadly Sins -- Ginger was lust, Mr. Howell was greed, etc. Someone '''else''' worked it out so that one of them actually represented ''two'' sins (maybe Skipper was Wrath and Sloth) so that Gilligan didn't represent ''any''... proving that the island was Hell, and, in making sure he screwed up enough so they could never escape, Gilligan was Satan! (Hey, red shirt...)

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((Jack_Cain)): No "orochimaru as biju container" entry under Naruto? This must be rectified.
{{SAMAS}}: Considering that the Akatsuki, whom Orochimaru was a member of, were in the business of fatally removing biju from their containers and storing them in a statue, I'm going to have to say no.

{{Outsyder0486}}: Actually...it's been stated that the Akatsuki have to pull biju out in order of tails, from Gaara (one) to Naruto (nine). I think they're up to four by this point in the manga - maybe three, I can't recall at this point in time. And making a deal with a powerful demon really seems like the kind of thing Orochimaru would do - and if I were Akatsuki, I would wait until I ''had'' to deal with a raving psychopath who's one of the three strongest ninja in the world. If anyone else agrees with this, I'll put it up there.

What I'm really surprised about, however, is that there are no theories on Kabuto. What does he want? Why does he help the good guys then immediately try to kill him? Yeesh.

((Jack_Cain)) It's a fair theory. I mean, why else have a charatcer who's name is connected to a famous, mythological eight-tailed snake? It can't just be random coincidence. Not to mention his snake theme, and the fact that he was obviously inhuman from a very young age.
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{{Lale}}: Should the ''Dungeons and Dragons'' series "The kids are dead and in Hell" theory go here? The WordOfGod may have expressly corrected this, but it looks like it was pretty widespread before that.

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{{Duckluck}} Put up my own bogus theory on what this Wiki's all about. I hope {{Seth}} and {{Ununnilium}} don't mind...

{{Seth}}: You do realise I need to [[LaserGuidedAmnesia flashy thing]] you now?

{{Duckluck}}: BeingX obviously isn't very good at being an undercover agent seeing as she/he/it wrote that part her/him/itsself.

{{Ununnilium}}: Hahaha, win.

maybe the undercover agent thing was a SarcasticConfession

HarpieSiren: But if you were telling the truth, you wouldn't have told us!

yes i would, because you're either a {{muggle}} or an alien who is utterly oblivious to the fact that i am actually a man in black and could kill you right now with my cybertron-zap-o-cyberspace-shooty-gun-thing-ray-beam-on-sandwich-with-a-side-of-death gun
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{{crapface}}: I put this in: {{Ununnilium}} is acully {{crapface}} from the Future this is backup by a lot of stuff that go's on in there lives like thay look the same when thay where chilren how {{Ununnilium}} coudint type or spell vary well when he was yong.

What do you think about it?
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{{Seth}}: Suzumiya Haruhi is god needs a mention, even some of the characters believe it.

{{Ununnilium}}: Except that it's totally canon within the show. It ''not'' being true is a theory that fits on this page, in fact.

{{Fencedude}}: The relevent theory here is that KYON is god, and subconsciously manifested Haruhi to provide the outlet for his imagination...and honestly, I'd be shocked if this wasn't the big reveal when the novels finally end.
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{{Seth}}: Okay whats with people removing the dividers between the main body and the examples in these pages. Here and in TitleBin two different users - has there been a change in layout policy that i haven't been told about?

Also i prefer the look of -- to the straight line, for a start the straight line that it is being replaced with is too long and makes the sentences hard to follow.

{{Sikon}}: That's my fault, I copied the entire thing into a text editor and replaced every occurrence of -- with — while forgetting that the horizontal line is made up of ----.

{{Seth}}: I reverted them, every other page on the wiki uses --. No need for this one to use the mdash.
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{{whitetigah}}: regarding the first ''Pokemon'' theory, that's what ''really happened'' in ''MonsterRancher'', another {{Mons}} series: humans created the Mons to use as laborers and soldiers; the biggest and meanest of these soldiers gained self-awareness, rebelled and all but destroyed civilization before it was defeated; the humans then rebuilt with the help of the Mons. Perhaps this is worth mentioning?

ThunderPhoenix: I'm kind of surprised that noone's put forth any crazy ''NeonGenesisEvangelion'' theories yet. That seems to be the kind of series that encourages this kind of lunacy.

{{Lale}}: Because, relatively, no Evangelion theory is crazy but very likely.

{{Sikon}}: Ha-ha, five points for your Evangelion entries, Lale! However, since they're all actual spoilers, I added spoiler tags to all of them.
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{{Lale}}: I'm waiting for someone to write a good, convincing "Giovanni is Ash's father" theory. It fascinates me, but I'm not in-the-know enough about Pokemon at this point to try.

FurikoMaru: IIRC, a site called Pokemopolis proposed a theory that ''Professor Oak'' is actually Ash's father via a secret tryst with his HotShounenMom; that's why he's always there when Ash calls home, why they were on vacation together in that episode that was banned for GagBoobs-content, and why he bets against his own grandson in favour of Ash in the first season (it also explains Gary's resentment towards his 'younger uncle'). Granted, I've seen maybe three episodes of Pokemon in my entire life, but it seemed to make a certain amount of sense, besides being extremely amusing.
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{{Grev}}: Yeah, it's off the wall, but this definitely needed at least one {{Firefly}} theory...
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{{Colin}}: Anyone else think that the "Paul is Dead" theory needs to be in here, and if so under what?
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MisterSix: Took the sarcastic comment ("oh wait, that's what ''everyone'' thinks" etc.) off the end of the second Purgatorio because it completely misses the joke.

MorganWick: But the joke's not all that ''funny'' IMO. Maybe this is my AS speaking but it seems to me that it just leaves one going "WhatAnIdiot". Also, because it's blatantly obvious, it technically doesn't belong on the page (but I guess we do have the joke Evangelion ones, but those are actually funny) - it's just trying to riff on the "dead and in purgatory" theme some more, which, as the count on the page indicates, really isn't as prevalent as some other themes; before long we'll have more parodies of it than actual examples. Besides, if we're going to have any part of the ''Divine Comedy'' it should be the most famous one, ''Inferno''. A ''big'' number of people haven't even heard of ''Purgatorio'' or ''Paradiso''.

{{HeartBurn Kid}}: I vote we keep it. After all, if we don't have in-jokes here, what ''do'' we have?

DevilsAdvocate: I think it's a quite clever twist on all the other "dead and in purgatory" theories, and I say we keep it. "Most people haven't heard of it" isn't a good argument, since [[ThereIsNoSuchThingAsNotability everything is notable]]. If you wanted to use that argument, I'd point out that there's a ''big'' number of people who have never heard of Evangelion, either, but you don't see me (or any other contributors who are not anime fans) clamoring for the removal of anime-related theories, even the ones that are actually mainstream interpretations and just happen to be remarkably similar to theories which would be in EpilepticTrees territory if applied to most other series.

MisterSix: Tch, honestly. "The characters are in purgatory" is certainly a theory that gets trotted out 90% of the time (cf fandoms for The Prisoner, Lost, Mulholland Drive etc), even if it's not in the majority on this page. To apply that to a story that actually ''is'' about people in purgatory is a pretty clever idea. The fact that ''you'' didn't get the joke the first time around (and therefore decided to append a needlessly snarky and unpleasant remark onto the end) or that ''you'' don't find it funny is irrelevant. This is the TV Tropes Wiki, not the Morgan Wiki.

{{Kizor}}: I say we keep it, since it's clearly a blast for many people, and go do something more fun than arguing.
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WhogusTheWhatsler: Just a query...is it okay to put songs in here? I know, music is one area we don't tend to cover on this site, and I am sometimes wary that we'll eventually be the "Everything In the History of the World Tropes Wiki", but for whatever reason I find this kind of alternative theorising happens to me more with songs than anything else.

Umptyscope: You mean, stuff like the meaning to certain song lyrics? Like ''American Pie'' or ''Hotel California?'' (Seems to ''me'' such discussions are done on the rest of the internet, and lots of speculation flies around until the writer does an interview on VH-1 and tells you it was all about his mother.)

WhogusTheWhatsler: No, I mean more songs that seem to be telling one story but have another possible interpretation. Like Bob Marley's ''I Shot the Sheriff''. Seems straightforward enough, but one is left with some unanswered questions: Who ''did'' shoot the deputy? Why does everyone think the singer did it? And why are they after him "for the killing of a deputy", rather than the killing of both the sheriff and his deputy? Don't they ''know'' he killed the sheriff? My theory is he never killed the sheriff; it's just that years of the sheriff's menacing taunts has left the singer paranoid and disturbed, and on the day he was set to leave the town he was so sure that the sheriff wouldn't let him go that, the moment he glimpsed a police uniform -- just the deputy, not out to get him at all -- he shot and ran, convinced he'd killed the sheriff in self-defence.

That sort of thing. I have others. Anyway, my point is, does that kind of thing have a place here, or should we keep it music-free?

{{Lale}}: Might clutter the page since the possibilities are endless. Start a new trope for that.

{{Ununnilium}}: I say go for it. If it tells a story, it fits on the page.

{{Lale}}: But wouldn't it make more sense to have another page for alternate theories of the "''true''" meaning of song lyrics?
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{{Citizen}}: Does that first ChronoTrigger example (evolution) fit here? Because... Lavos ''was'' responsible for evolution...

Ninjacrat: I though the same thing. That one pretty much explicit in the plot.

ManCalledTrue: Perhaps, but I've had to fight about it with people before, which is why I put it in here.
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{{Seth}}: I don't think this page needs more than two quotes, if the quotes are too long it detracts from the entry - placing in the QuoteBin

{{Citizen}}: You never let me have any fun, {{Seth}}. =P

{{Seth}}: Now be fair, i never let ''anyone'' have any fun when aesthetics are at stake.

CiTiZen: Fair enough.
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LooneyToons: Osh, I'm not entirely clear on the purpose of some of your recent changes to the ''LoveHina'' entry. Why the qualifier of "in the original story" in the theory declaration? It certainly applies to both manga and anime. And you altered

-->Kaolla's primary activity when not eating or harassing Keitaro seems to be sleeping on a tree branch.

to

-->Kaolla's primary activity when not eating or harassing Keitaro seems to be sleeping and eating.

Why the redundancy in "eating"?

Finally, your change to make the last line of the entry to

--> Furthermore, magical aptitude seems only partly sufficient, as the "Red Moon" events magic seems largely out of her control.

seems to be less an expansion on the idea and more of a rebuttal. Is that what you intended?

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LooneyToons: Um. The recent addition of some goofball "theories" that exist simply to be over-the-top bizarro is perhaps a trend we ought to kill right now. I mean, I enjoyed throwing in the Vamp Benders entry just as a wiki in-joke, but the new material on Firefly, Lost and Transformers is just ''stupid'' for stupid's sake. I mean, this page was supposed to be for genuine speculation that just happened to be odd -- not every bit of braindrool that strikes someone as borderline amusing.

{{HeartBurn Kid}}: In fairness, I don't think any theory's too whacked-out for ''Lost''; at this point, they could reveal that everybody really has been on the set of a TV show all this time, and I wouldn't be surprised.

{{xwingace}}: The one on the set of a TV show is not mainly the one meant here, I think. But the moment ''Lost'' crosses over with ''Torchwood'' will be the day of the Apocalypse, I think. Oh wait, we already had that. On Torchwood at least...

MisterSix: Can this be the same LooneyTunes who objected to me [[NeonGenesisEvangelionDiscussion asking for the Evangelion profiles to be deleted]]? Apparently so. WildMassGuessing is in the JustForFun section. As far as I'm concerned, that means it doesn't have to be a hivemind of industrious critical thinking and convincing alternative theories. As the write-up makes entirely clear, this is for crazy pet theories: genuine speculation that just happens to be odd can go on EpilepticTrees. To suddenly declare that allowing people to have fun with their theories is a practice that should be "killed" is just needlessly miserable.

{{Lale}}: Note the '''Wild Mass''' in the title; something you think up on the spot solely to put it on the page is not ''wild mass guessing''.

LooneyToons:
-->MisterSix: Can this be the same LooneyTunes who objected to me [[NeonGenesisEvangelionDiscussion asking for the Evangelion profiles to be deleted]]?
No, this is ''LooneyToons''. With two "O"s. I am not a Warner Brothers production. And I am not obligated to mindlessly apply the same solution to every problem, real or imaginary, under the delusion that this illusionary "consistency" is somehow a virtue and that there is a one-size-fits-all approach to all problems. This page is for fundamentally ''real'' speculation on or interpretations of events in a show. Making stupid shit up just for the sake of putting something on it ''misses the damned point.'' Do that over in the TitleBin.

MisterSix: Mmm, interesting definition of JustForFun, there. The thing is, nothing in the actual write-up ''says'' that it has to be "real" speculation. All it says is to have fun and make up some "crazy" theories. That people have then come up with things JustForFun that don't meet your standards is neither here nor there.

The fact is that this site is just an amusing diversion - and this page a diversion ''within'' that diversion. More to the point, it's a ''democratic'' diversion whose form is moulded by its users. To stride in like Darth Vader and start demanding that "braindrool" entries (a definition that is, apparently, decided by you alone) be "killed" runs contra to the tone of the site. The officious tone that you adopted is particularly chafing, as is the implication that ''you'' know what's best for this page, not everyone else.

I did a similar thing with the Evangelion pages, but I like to think I did it rather more tactfully - and I realised afterwards that my opinion is just one of many and does not deserve special treatment. Nor are my opinions sufficiently authoritative that I should go around calling others' entries on this site "stupid shit", particularly if the entry was created for the sole purpose of making someone else laugh (surely the purest, sweetest intention of all?).

And in case you're wondering - I haven't added ''anything'' to this page, so I'm not trying to defend my own "braindrool".

Ninjacrat: I second to remove the junk entries from the list. When the page was new, I checked it every day, delighted to see new weird, crack-brained and sometimes ''frighteningly plausible'' theories people had offered up.

A majority of recent additions are forced rubbish that are metaphorcally elbowing you in the ribs and chortling how gosh-darned ''wacky'' and ''zany'' they are. Chuck 'em. The page should be for theories that have actually been entertained in all seriousness, even if only by one person, even if only for a second.

UnknownTroper: ok but the {{Lost}} meta theory stays

MisterSix: See, here's the problem. How do we know which ones have been entertained "in all seriousness"? There was a great one about Teletubbies as neo-fascists that came onto the page really early on that's blatantly made up for fun but is - in my eyes - a lot more entertaining than the "real" ones about some character being someone else's dad. I totally vote that the Purgatorio = purgatory one definitely stays, though.

Ninjacrat: "Entertained in all seriouness by one person" includes you, the reader. :) If it's supported by the text, or it alters your understanding of the text in a fun way, then it's good. If it's an exercise in seeing how many injokes/cult series it can namecheck, it's gone.
The Purgatorio one definitely stays. It's got an actual point, for one.

LooneyToons: I apologize for my tone and language -- something about this wiki has been turning me into a curmudgeon over the last six months and I don't understand why. But my point remains. And if people feel that by removing the Avatar stuff I created we can at least help discourage the stuff made up for the sake of making stuff up, I'll gladly go along with it.

{{Ununnilium}}: There's definitely a line between the "good" theories and the "bad" ones, but where that line falls is fuzzy. Personally, the only one I'd cut out is this one, as it's less an actual theory and more a game of "how many stories can I cross over at once" (fun, but not appropriate for this page). Even then, it might be rewritten into several discrete theories:
* ''The Island is actually Avalon from [[KingArthur Arthurian legend]].'' King Arthur was buried there, bound to sleep for hundreds of years. The next people to visit Avalon were pirates that shipwrecked themselves. Some stayed on the island, living off the apples that grew there, but others grew restless and found a portal to another world -- {{Narnia}}. Those pirates became the Telmarines; the pirates that remained repaired their ship and used the island as a base, building up a community.
**They were kept eternally youthful by the magic of the island, but they clashed with PeterPan and the various other communities that had sprung up (Native Americans, Mermaids etc).
**The base was used by various pirates that squabbled over the land, including the [[PiratesOfTheCaribbean crew of the Black Pearl]].
**Eventually the Mermaids died out and the Native Americans began to worship an ape that grew to monstrous size due to the magic of the island -- King Kong.
**After Kong was killed the Native Americans died out and the island was forgotten until it was used to keep [[ThePrisoner prisoners]].
**Later it served as a home when [[GilligansIsland a certain three-hour tour]] crashed. (This explains all the BambooTechnology the Professor kept inventing.)
**When ''they'' left the island, a team of archaeologists found Arthur's tomb and excavated it. On orders from an organisation that [[{{Torchwood}} refused to name itself]], the archaeologists installed an EMP device in what used to be the tomb, which came in handy when a certain plane flew over the island...

Later: Okay, here's some just-added examples of what ''not'' to do:
*''[[SufficientlyAdvancedAlien Primus]] is not immune to the effects of Marijuana'': Two words, "Beast Machines".
--> Bitching about show quality, plus a drug joke. Note there's no actual ''theory'' in this one.
*** Feel free to ''substitute Thundara or Eternia, among others'' into the above. Both of those worlds have a uffiecient level of {{Magitek}}, as well as LostTechnology that could have easily generated the Pokemon.
--> This is basically saying "AWizardDidIt", which doesn't make for much of a theory.
*''Chiyo-Chan's pigtails are subject to a sort of displaced {{Gainaxing}}'': Watch the intro to the five-minute short where Osaka is daydreaming. Chiyo-Chan is riding on a dog, and her pigtails bounce! Then, in the short proper, Osaka is tempted to wrap her hands around them, just reach out and touch them, and falls victim to a pigtail-lust-induced daydream that swiftly turns into a nightmare. Clearly, there's some sort of fetish involved, and it's being mocked.
--> Honestly, I have no idea what the actual theory is here.

{{Ununnilium}}: Note that the ''Beast Machines'' one has been fixed into an actual theory. Well-done.
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LooneyToons: Deleted this alleged entry from Crapface:

*{{Ununnilium}} is acully {{crapface}} from the Future this is backup by a lot of stuff that go's on in there lives like thay look the same when thay where chilren how {{Ununnilium}} coudint type or spell vary well when he was yong.

Which is actually the result of several successive edits slowly refining and improving the idea and the spelling. If you can believe that.

Stupid we'll cope with. Illiterate we'll fix, if we have a clue what you're trying to say.

Stupid ''and'' illiterate? Sorry, no. Not for you.

{{Ununnilium}}: He's not stupid, just young. ^,^ As indicated on our contributor pages, he's my little brother. But yeah, that's way too injokey to stay on the site.

LooneyToons: I didn't bother to go look. Geeze, I barely finish apologizing for being curmudgeonly and I do it again. Sorry.

{{Ununnilium}}: 's OK. ^_^
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FastEddie: The ''ad-hominem'' thing deserves to go. The ATTAFOVS refs are funny. I've encountered the "immortal Inara" ''Firefly'' thing elsewhere. There is a pretty good chance that the more ridiculous the theory is, the better chance there is that it is actually out "in the wild". If we end up originating one ... well, that's cool, too. If it is about a show (including our faux-show), my vote is that it stays in. // afterthought: I'll try to track down where I saw that Inara thing. IF you have external link to a place where an epileptic tree is under discussion, throw it on the entry. Not that we ''need'' footnotes, but they might be fun. // later Bingo! Found it [[http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/Inara here]].

{{osh}}: By golly thems a lot of words! Since this is my horrible spawn I'll clarify the intent in the entry.

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{{Scrounge}}: Why is the Chiyo Pigtail Fetish theory not valid? I added it back in, and it got deleted again, and I want to know what the deal is. A MINUTE OR SO LATER: Never mind, the second time was the result of a nuked edit. Gonna go ahead and de-nuke it now

{{Ununnilium}}: What the heck is the theory? "Chiyo-Chan's pigtails are subject to a sort of displaced {{Gainaxing}}" is not a theory; it either happens or it doesn't.
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->''Also, in the very end, a fox appears that looks just like Makoto's fox form. (Great, now I'm going to start believing this.)''
{{Citizen}}: I want to believe... ;_;
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MorganWick: I had the feeling this page was a ''parody'' of EpilepticTrees theories, where people could make up the most ridiculous theories they could think of. I never had the impression they had to be real theories; otherwise it's a needless fork of EpilepticTrees in lieu of an examples field. Me thinks Looney just needs to take a Wikibreak if he's becoming too curmudgeonly as a result of the wiki. I think his real beef is he's encountering too many theories that just aren't funny.

Oh, and I'm not backing down on the Purgatorio one. It's just told with too much of a straight face. (Not that it should be de-straight faced.) 90% of people vouching for it are only doing so because everyone else is. I know because my first reaction was that it didn't sit well with me, and first reactions are never wrong, and completely outweighs all the opinions of the masses or even the need to have reasons because it is the arbiter of truth and nothing else matters because I say so. Nyah.

(That said, I do like the parenthetical "wait a minute" that's been added. Consider it backed down from.)

Here's how osh originally created the page: ''After noticing the Fan tropes section's nebulous beginning, I thought we could sway some potential flack with this fun exercise. This is the place for our grizzled and seasoned veterans to expound their knowledge on the unmentioned. What's your crazy or not-so-crazy pet theory on a story you enjoyed? Have fun filling the logic holes and rationalizing the weird. And remember, it's not a lie unless they have proof!'' Which is way open to interpretation. Ruling?

{{Egak}}: Feel free to add more proof to any of the theories I just added. In fact, please do.

MisterSix: I agree with MorganWick on the EpilepticTrees front. Move all "serious" examples there and leave this place for fun, silly writing.

FastEddie: Yes, it is not clear that this is ''meant'' for zany, made up stuff. That should be cleared up in the article intro, with directions to put the ''real'' "'trees" in EpilepticTrees.

{{Ununnilium}}: Well, I don't think "it ''could'' be real" is a very good reason to put things in EpilepticTrees. I'm personally fine with everything currently on the page staying where it is.
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{{HeartBurn Kid}}: Axed "hey, you think maybe this whole purgatory thing has gone too far?" from the Purgatorio entry; IMHO, the lampshade on it works best when kept short. Brevity being the soul of wit, and all that.
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{{Ununnilium}}: Taking out:
* ''Kobol is in the {{Firefly}} Star System'': No proof, but it sure would be awesome. The above theory ''would'' have to be a prerequisite, of course.
--> No proof (not even silly proof) = doesn't belong here.

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{{DomaDoma}}: With the end of the Harry Potter series so soon in coming, should we delete the related theories when the day comes? (I mean, two of those could actually happen.) And should we do the same for other series finales?

BeingX: yes

FastEddie: A goodly number of these trees are about series that have already ended. Not at all sure that a little thing like the end of canonical production will do anything to slow down fanon. Pretty good evidence that it won't.

DarkSasami: I think the concern is that one of the theories will turn out to be true, in which case there will be massive "[=OMG YOU SPOILED HARRY POTTER YOU BASTARDS=]" complaints.

{{Sikon}}: If this happens, ShooOutTheClowns.

{{DomaDoma}}: Not sure what Sikon means by that, but anyway, I have deleted them.

{{Ununnilium}}: And I restored them, with a note.
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{{Andyroid}}: 71.175.13.141, please, ''please'' stop whatever you think you're doing before I have an aneurysm. That's ''three'' times you've deleted more than half the entry, and if this keeps happening I'm going to cry "vandalism!"

{{Ununnilium}}: We've had this problem before, IIRC -- something having to do with what happens if there's a glitch halfway through the page updating, or somesuch.

LooneyToons: Yeah, but he's done it three or four times in rapid succession. Even if he's got good intentions, he needs to ''stop it''.

MorganWick: He may have [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_size an old browser or version of Google Toolbar]].

{{Sikon}}: It has happened to me before when I was editing. It just happens, may be a bug in the wiki software.
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{{Ununnilium}}: Sansa Stark? Who's that?

Also, I don't see what separates the ''LordOfTheRings'' theory from a generic... hm. Do we have a name for that plot? Where the TomatoSurprise is that all the magic is really technology? I could have sworn we did.

Anyway, my point is that there's nothing especially ''StarWars''-ish about it. It could be any kind of MagicFromTechnology.

MorganWick: I don't think we do.

{{DomaDoma}}: Sansa Stark is a character in ''ASongOfIceAndFire''. At eleven years old, she's pretty vapid and annoying.

FastEddie: This is getting unweildy. How about making a group for these, with each show having its own entry?

{{Ununnilium}}: Hrm. That feels like it'd be unweildy in its own way, though, and not as easy to add to.

FastEddie: Better ideas?

Is the LoTRs one crap then? I wrote it, so I don't mind getting rid of it. Don't really see how it being a generic magic-from-technology is THAT bad, though, considering how many of the other examples are also common tropes. And it mostly uses aspects of Star Wars that aren't replicated elsewhere.

{{Ununnilium}}: Mmmmm... Well, to me, it doesn't really seem to fit. The Ainur, for example, are ridiculously powerful, much more than any Force-user; pretty much nothing about the Silmarillion fits, unless you say "ah, well, it's all a really, really messed-up version of real events". For that matter, none of the magic seems especially Force-y, or Star Wars-technology-ish.

Yeah, guess you're right. Okay, I've nuked it.

Someone just nuked most of the page. Is there an easy way to restore it?

{{DomaDoma}}: Just copy and paste it under the "show changes to markup" option.

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FastEddie; In the absence of better ideas, I'm breaking up into an index for a group of its own.

{{Citizen}}: Hahaha, I just did a double take when I went to browse the All Recent Pages list. ^^

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{{Devil Master}}: I want to add some wild theories on Captain S. This is a web show with a live-action first season, a webcomic as "season 1.5" currently in progress, and a live-action season 2 expected in 2009. What category does it fit?

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SabreJustice: I can't believe there isn't a page for {{Godzilla}} yet. My personal theory is that Gozilla is [[TheBible Leviathan]]. I suck with wikis, so how would this be added?

Maniakkid25: in a similar vein, can someone add a "other" subheading for every WMG section? You know, for the WMGs that don't nessecarily have their own subheading.

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Krine say: I'd like to put forth the notion that no, ''not every page needs "X is a Time Lord" in it somewhere. Seriously.'' And I don't think that saying "X is his Tardis" is enough proof for that anyways.

Eclipt: In fact, could I suggest that crossover speculation and in-universe speculation actually be separated? I think "X is a Time Lord" and so forth would be better served by one central page with multiple examples - especially if it's going to be applied to absolutely everything.

FastEddie: Yeah, the "X is a Time Lord" thing has gone past the RuleOfThree. They should be pared back to three in the whole list. BTW, these aren't serious theories.

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Master Hand: What happened to the little Joss Whedon faces that popped up next to jossed [=WMGs=]? I liked those!

MorganWick: What's up with the new WMG icons in the row of cross-namespace links?

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JET73L: Why does [=WMG/WildMassGuessing=] redirect to [=Main/WildMassGuessing=]? Is there a valid reason for this? If not, is there some way to undo the redirect?

{{Pro-Mole}}: For the same reason [=JustBugsMe/JustBugsMe=] redirects to [=Main/ItJustBugsMe=], so you can just type [=http://tvtropes.org/pwiki/pmwiki.php/WildMassGuessing=] without being redirected to the main page or an empty page.

...then again, none of those are redirects either, so.. I have no idea. At all.

{{JET73L}}: Huh, [=JustBugsMe/JustBugsMe=] was, until recently, a meta JustBugsMe page rather than a redirect to [=Main/JustBugsMe=], but now it's just a redirect.

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In my opinion, the title of Wild Mass Guessing wasn't reatly chosen since now it has one of the unholiest acronyms.
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