darth_traten: I am currently playing Final Fantasy VI on GBA (this is the second time, the first was the FF Anthology in PSX). I never encountered any evidence showing that Terra has romantic interest on Locke and that Edgar has "unrecruited" romantic interest on Terra. It's only Celes and Rachel for Locke. As for Edgar, the way he behaved towards Terra is just like how he behaves to any other women he meets so it is not an indication. Moreover, Terra has no concept of love, romantic or otherwise, until the Mobliz incident. As for Setzer having romantic interest on Celes, it's only when they first meet because she looks like Maria. Other than that, we never saw any incident showing that Setzer is romantically pursuing Celes. Locke and Celes is the only real love team in your party. Terra, while being the main character, is not part of any love team or any romantic subplot.
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EponymousKid: Okay, new page picture, and a snappy page quote, ''now''. Bonus points if it's from Jason (or was it Mark? The condor) from ''Gatchaman''.
SilentHunter: Ah... I tried...
EponymousKid: Thanks, though. I didnt't think anyone would agree with me that this trope isn't exemplified by an ''airplane''. I put something in, but I admit to knowing nothing about images, so I don't really know if I did it right.
SilentHunter: The plane is the Rockwell B-1B Lancer, the second most capable American bomber.
EponymousKid: But TheLancer isn't always (or, hell, even ''usually'') "second best", so much as "not as heroic" as TheHero. If he were, TheHero would always come out on top when they inevitably come to blows...
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LooneyToons: Uh, Smapti?
->Derives its name from Kain, closest friend of protagonist Cecil in ''FinalFantasyIV'', who does indeed wield a lance.
No. The term "lancer" as we use it here is just a ''bit'' older than ''FinalFantasyIV''; it's far more likely that Kain wields a lance because he's TheLancer, not the other way around.
Smapti: Conceded. My bad.
DarkSasami: The question of the origin of this term came up on the FiveManBandDiscussion page, and was never answered. FinalFantasy IV was 1991; {{Voltron}}, in which TheLancer was actually named Lance, was 1984, so there's a possibility. Do you have some additional insight into this, LT?
LooneyToons: Sadly, no. I was graduating college at that time and had little interest in cartoons; and I honestly can't remember when I first heard the term.
FastEddie: About a hundred years before Shakespeare, a lancer was a yeoman (not a Knight, being the important element) who was awarded the privilege of wearing light armor and using a spear (lance) while riding a horse. So, we've got a guy who was not noble, but was kinda dashing. Not a leader, but with a lot of ''esprit de corp'' and the swagger that goes with it. That's where Lancer became a term for the type discussed in the entry.
LickyLindsay: from the shows I am familiar with, and even from reading the descriptions of the ones I'm not, it certainly sounds like the typical Lancer is a more interesting character than the typical Hero (obviously exceptions exist). The hero = obvious, naive, perfect = boring. The lancer = mysterious, worldly, flawed = interesting! The fact that TheChick is usually the hero's girlfriend is ironic because in real life TheLancer would probably get the girl. (And assuming Sir Lancelot was King Arthur's Lancer...)
Malkalypse: Why is Sir Lancelot not ''on'' this list? I would think he would qualify as one of the {{OldestOnesInTheBook}}, potentially even the {{TropeNamer}}.
{{Tanto}}: Lancelot's not in a band. Mostly, the KingArthur heroes work independently. The best you can say is that Arthur, Lancelot, and Guinevere form a PowerTrio, but that's about it.
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Apart from the romantic triangle aspects, would it be fair to describe Commander Vimes in the {{Discworld}} novels as a partially inverted Lancer (he fits most of it, apart from outranking TheHero, and being the main character himself)?
FastEddie: "partially inverted Lancer"? Bog, help me. I got that. I don't want to draw a picture of a partially inverted Lancer, though. The idea scares me.
Licky, ... yes. Lancers are the main thing. Heroes are mostly to make lancers seem human, quoth the cynic.
{{Ununnilium}}: Sounds painful. But yes; he's in the role of TheHero, but acts like TheLancer, and his Lancer is Carrot, who acts like TheHero.
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{{Tanto}}: Eh, the FiveManBand entry puts Renji as Ichigo's Lancer, with Uryu as TheSmartGuy and Chad as TheBigGuy.
{{Seth}}: It's mutable. Ishida is a lancer based on personality, Renji has very similar powers and fighting style to ichigo, he also has a semi romantic (subtext only though) rivalry with ichigo in regard to Rukia. Chad shares the dark side analogy.
Based on personality i would say Ishida was the lancer, but put them all in a group and Renji is closest to him in terms of skill set. Since the rolls are mutable it's kinda hard to FiveManBand these guys. The only set roles are Orihime as TheChick and Ichigo as TheMessiah.
{{pHilippos42}} Wait. The name does or does not derive from Lancer, the androgynous anti-Invid guerrilla from Robotech?
WandersNowhere: In the Pirates example there...are you really sure? I thought it was Will who clearly was TheHero (younger and more naive, JumpedAtTheCall, does everything for ostensibly noble goals, hopelessly in love with Elizabeth, not to mention that whole ''destiny'' bit...) and Jack who was the Lancer (more experienced and cynical, unhesitantly leaps into the moral grey areas, mostly selfish motivations, frequent Turncoat, brief romantic entanglement with the hero's girl)
Could be a subversion, too, as Will ''definitely'' drifts into Lancer territory in the third movie, while Jack becomes more heroic.
{{Razide}}: I agree; I'd say will is TheHero. Who is Will more like: Luke Skywalker or Han Solo?
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How about Wolfwood, from Trigun? Seems to suit Lancer to a T.
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I shot a [[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teal+deer teal deer]] dead on sight; I couldn't help it.
%TL;DR%** Ironically, Lancer from {{Fate Stay Night}} actually ''could'' fit the lancer personality almost perfectly, but it is completely unintentional (it is highly doubtful they know about this trope in Japan). Despite technically being the enemy, he is the game's speedster, gets along rather well with the protagonists in one route despite *not* being a team player, has his heroic pride and honor while being morally grey, has a thing for the Rin (the heroine of said route), etc...
Umm... Have you ever actually ''played'' the game? Because he really does fit pretty much all the characteristics of the role perfectly in the UBW route. Unless I'm misinterpreting it, you also ''do'' do an excellent job of coming off as a complete and total prick, as well.
{{Zeke}}: This is partly my fault -- a while ago I noted at the end, for fun, that "Lancer from FateStayNight is not ''remotely'' TheLancer". Looks like that inspired somebody to try and squeeze him in. I think that's silly, even now that I've played UBW. Come on, the description starts with "right-hand man and go-to guy for the hero"! You could make a case for Rin, but definitely not Lancer. I'm just gonna take the entry out -- FSN won't squeeze into a FiveManBand no matter how hard you push.
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Could someone explain the origin of the trope's name since no character named Lancer on the examples list perfectly fist "The Lancer?"
FastEddie: Read this discussion. // later: The car joke didn't really work. Punch line ''before'' setup. No worky.
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FastEddie: (later) Pulled the 'joe' image. It doesn't really illustrate the idea in any way.
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{{KJMackley}}: I've been doing an overview of the different FiveManBand members and overhauling them. One thing I've found is that they are often very worded and nearly covered in other tropes that only make it confusing. As for this page, the description says that a lancer ''has to be'' an AntiHero, rival or otherwise darker then the hero. While there are plenty examples of that, I can think of dozens of examples that have the lancer as a close personal friend and far from rivals. A lot of the examples justify that, so I modified the page so that it can accompany those differences. The main thing is that TheLancer is the closest and most reliable ally the hero has, barring a surprising FaceHeelTurn.