lollerkeet: Given HollywoodAtheist is still in vogue, I wonder if atheists really belong here?

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FreezairForALimitedTime: Cut:

**** Or they're only "funny" because an army of [[AllInTheFamily Archie Bunkers]] thinks so, and they're not subverting anything at all. Just a thought, there.
****Hey, there's a reason everyone found Archie Bunker funniest.
*****Yeah-because he's such a JerkAss.sr
**** All this troper can say is, TV sided with women on every sitcom he watched growing up, (rest assured, every conflict or contest between a male and a female on TV started with a gloating male and ended with a triumphant woman, so I spent a lot of time trying to avoid anything that remotely resembled that kind of behavior only to discover that women are no more innocent than men.) so he's enjoying the subversions. Every positive male trait has been corrupted or twisted into a flaw that is now demonized, so this troper no longer apologizes for laughing at these jokes.
**** You know, people have a point in claiming that this particular kind of [[ClosertoEarth Positive Discrimination]] is sexist against men, because it is. But this troper believes it's also sexist against women, because it's often used to keep the women from having any fun or otherwise make them into nagging fuddy-duddies. Yeah, the women are portrayed as smarter, more practical or morally superior to the men, but they still don't get the good lines, the interesting quirks or the funny plots, and it can potentially be used to justify the idea that a woman's role in life is just to clean up men's messes rather than to have fun or adventures of her own -- but it's not just the same old sexism repackaged to be prettier, really! It's just because she's so much SMARTER and BETTER! That's all! Basically, I think it just sucks on both ends, because it makes men into lazy, stupid, immature dolts while still justifying the idea that a woman's life should revolve around a man and taking care of/picking up after him, or, at the very least, that "good girls" don't have any fun.

Lots of natter, and ''lots'' of stuff that really don't fly with the RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement. Please, people--it's nice to know that you're thinking about how society portrays gender roles... But this wiki is ''not'' a soapbox.

{{Gemmifer}}: Huh? It's not?

{{Rebochan}}: Right, I took a shot at the "Women" entry, if only because it's so prevalent on the Internet and in NewMedia today.

{{Mercy}}: "All this troper can say is, TV sided with women on every sitcom he watched growing up" Well, I suppose it depends how selectively you watch (and maybe how old you are).
* Consider Lucy in ''"The Lucy Show"'' and ''"I Love Lucy"'', and the male Desi Arnaz's inevitable catchphrase at the end of most episodes "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!".
* Consider pretty much every female character in ''"Bewitched"'' other than Samantha and Tabitha, but especially Gladys Kravitz and Aunt Clara.
* Consider the daughters in ''"The Brady Bunch"''. Pretty much every female stereotype ''ever!''

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{{Kizor}}: Good evening. I found this paragraph attached to the "women" entry. The entry itself is a bit disturbing in its aggressiveness, but could I get some opinions about the accuracy and appropriateness of the added paragraph? I'm not buying the statement that webcomics ("in particular") relish rape, not just like that.

** Yet there's still plenty of places where this is ''still'' acceptable. Webcomics in particular relish in portraying women as far too stupid to understand anything like computers or other geeky stuff or why it is totally okay for men to grope their breasts, make them ''show'' their breasts, or rape them. In fact, if a woman anywhere (real life or in the entertainment) protests the behavior, they will quickly be labeled a StrawFeminist and told to get a sense of humor. Also, it's still perfectly acceptable to insult anything simply because "girls like it". Because if a girl likes something, it's obviously garbage. Finally, whereas a women will often be shown as "right" and triumphant over her stupid man, she's still a horrible nagging fuddy duddy that is basically expected to babysit any overgrown manchild that latches onto her and ruin his fun.

{{Mercy}} In how many media ''other'' than web-comics would something like [[http://www.shreddedmoose.com/comic/comic_arc.php?comicID=98 Shredded Moose]] see the light of day?

{{Kizor}}: Point. I'm all for judging webcomics by ''Shredded Moose'' if, in turn, we base our attitudes towards literature on ''The Turner Diaries.''

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[=EternalKanus=]: Cut for ridiculous inaccuracy, and response cut for responding to said inaccuracy (cut in bold)

* Many Muslims were (and still are) portrayed as violent, bigoted terrorists. Only the Radicals and Fundamentalists deserve that treatment. In This Troper's opinion, it should not be lumped on Muslims as a whole. '''Fortunatley, with a Muslim president, this particular stereotype may begin to die out.'''
**'''...You're kidding, right? 'Cause I'm from Canada, and even I'm aware of all the backlash Obama got regarding his choice of CHRISTIAN minister and church, which seems to be pretty compelling evidence that he's not Muslim. For the most part, the only people who bring up his [[DidNotDoTheResearch supposed Islamic leanings]] are the type of people who saw it as a reason not to vote for him, and as the beginning of the end for the "Christian nation" of America.'''

==Asians==
Are still very accetable targets im going to remove them from this list.

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{{Mercy}}: An anonymous troper cut the following passage from the section on atheists, with the edit reason "Sorry, but this is wrong":

"but in American media [[HollywoodAtheist atheists]] are often seen as AcceptableTargets, frankly mirroring [[TheRealWorld real world]] attitudes in a country where atheists are [[http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist8.htm regarded with considerable suspicion and mistrust]]. This tendency is much less common in Europe, where overt religiosity is less common."

There are three points in this section:

-> 1. That atheists are still seen as acceptable targets in American media. See HollywoodAtheist.
-> 2. That this mirrors widespread American attitudes, with a supporting link.
-> 3. That this tendency is less common in European media.

I don't know which of the three points the troper thought was "wrong", but I've restored the section pending discussion, or at least more selective editing.