{{Meems}}: Does anyone with a better grasp of the Wiki's workings than me know why all the links on this page are red? Even links to tropes that definitely exist?

It happens sometimes if the page doesn't load correctly.

{{Gemmifer}}: This page needs to contain a summary what ''Goth'' actually is. So far we only have that it isn't a fashion, skin tone or mood. What is it, then?

Anyone else notice that the tone of this whole page is a little defensive?

{{Nornagest}}: It's an aesthetic, and a subculture based on that aesthetic, which originally grew out of the punk scene in the late Seventies but has evolved considerably since then. I'd say that musical taste is probably the most important part of that aesthetic, but tastes in fashion, literature, and other media play into it as well. Stereotypically gothy personality traits are not as central to the subculture as media would have you believe, but a correlation exists.

It's possible to appreciate (and adopt aspects of) the aesthetic without identifying with the subculture; in fact, that's pretty common. It's also possible to identify with the subculture without appreciating the aesthetic, but it'll get you branded as a poseur.

How's that for a summary?



i8246i: Its just a bunch of whiny teenagers full of angst trying to TakeThat mommy and daddy for "ruining their lives"....its been the subject of controversy, its made headlines both famous and infamous, its spawned a few bands (some which made decent music), and drove parents insane

...just like every other generation of super whiny and angsty teenagers, since the beginning of time, and now the "goths" have turned (or mutated) into "Emos" and "hipsters"

They're also a misnomer of REAL goths, gothic architecture, etc...but who cares anyway?

And as much as I don't want to admit it, if I had grown up in the time of "Emos" and "hipsters", instead of the time of "goths", I would probably have more tolerance for their "anti-culture".
* Yeah, because heaven forbid that there's anyone who likes the culture who isn't a slightly more sophisticated EmoTeen, amirite?

{{Sukeban}}: Hey, for the misnomer you'll have to point at Ann Radcliffe's fans rather than Anne Rice's...
* I think he/she was making reference to the historic Goths, of the Rome sacking kind. And indeed, there's a big difference between a nomadic tribal warrior and an angsty, black-clad snob.

AnthonyAlexander: After reading the article, reading this discussion, and watching several of the works mentioned in the article, I still have pretty much no idea what a Goth is. I know someone who self-identifies as a Goth, and she can't seem to tell me either....and if I ever identify something besides herself as Goth, she assures me it is not.

So perhaps "Goth" is a synonym for "nothing at all?"