Beta Ray: "Generic Dark Past? Judging by A New Beginning, it wouldn't be too surprising if Malefor used her as a sex slave. " Really? I'm not seeing it. Care to elaborate? And I mean this in the nicest way possible.
----
{{Malchus}}: Removed the following from the Naruto examples:
***This troper feels your pain. [[YaoiFangirl She]] adores Naruto x Gaara, but hates the amount of bashing done to Sakura and Sasuke; Sakura becomes an example of this trope, and Sasuke's a rapist -.- Also, I must be very careful where I reveal that my other OTP (Yes, I know...) is [[LoveFreak Lee]] x [[TheStoic Sasuke.]], or I will be murdered by [=NaruSasu=], [=SasuSaku=], and [=LeeSaku=] fans alike.
**** Don't worry about ''them'''... ''[[ThisTroper I'm]]'' gonna drown you (in BrainBleach) for coming up with that one!
***** This conversation has officially become very nutty.
****** And ''funny'', but that's me. <3
----
{{Ununnilium}}: See, now I wish we'd called ''this'' GoDownWithTheShip. Ah well.
MorganWick: Um, a lot of these examples seem to ''not'' be examples... and this is one of those names that seems destined to be completely forgotten and later brought up in YKTTW.
{{Jisu}}: Not examples? Explain.
MorganWick: The ''Sakura'' example: ''Despite the intense possibilities, he has the strong support of much of the fandom.'' ''Oddly enough, Futari Wa Pretty Cure, poster child of non-canon yuri shipping, doesn't have legions of people out to get Kiriya or Fujipi.''
{{Jisu}}: Fixed the ''Sakura'' example -- a lot of people ''do'' hate him for that reason. And the Precure one is notable for ''being'' an exception, given the series' iconic status in non-canon yuri.
{{SAMAS}}: IIRC, the furor over Sakuya in TenchiMuyo wasn't that she got Tenchi, but that she was a ''new character'' who got Tenchi.
----
KhymChanur: In HaremAnime, is it really the UnluckyEverydude that gets shafted? In the LoveHina and [[RanmaOneHalf Ranma 1/2]] fic that I've read, the male lead almost never gets bashed, but one (or more) of the members of the harem. And I've heard that Ayeka from TenchiMuyo gets the same treatment.
{{Jisu}}: On the same note, I haven't seen many tsundere get bashed like this. Most of the people on the list rarely even get angry! Maybe I'm in the wrong fandoms, though.
Binaroid: Well, I guess it can depend on what fics you read. I know that there is a large amount of hatred for harem protagonists -- see [[http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9959/wantedanimemalesof0.jpg Exhibit A: The "Enemies of All Mankind" poster.]] Tsundere can also split the fanbase between fans who sympathise with the tsundere and fans who dislike her antics. (Google "Knights of the True Fiancee" for a [[RanmaOneHalf Ranma 1/2]] example of tsundere supporters.)
{{osh}}: It's a different sort of dislike. Harem protagonists are often ''canonically'' treated as losers. There's not a lot a lot of "fuel" work with.
{{SAMAS}} The "Enemies of all Mankind" thing is a bit of a joke. Hell, Ranma is usually subject to outright [[TheWoobie Woobiefication]] when it comes to fanfics.
Binaroid: osh, I disagree. UnwantedHarem series tend to justify themselves by trying to focus on their protagonists' good points -- ususally, that they're a variant of TheMessiah. Of course, some of the fanbase refuses to buy it.
----
IdleDandy: Oh-ho! Obviously someone has not been hanging around the ''SVU'' section of fanfiction.net (and I don't blame you, because the fics there are teh suck.) There are ''plenty'' of Kathy-is-an-evil-shrew fics and even more Kathy-dies-horribly fics. Not to mention that back when I used to post in that show's TWoP area, she was known as Chemistryless Kathy, the only organism on Earth who shows no chemistry with Chris Meloni.
{{Lale}}: I hate [=TWOP=], so that must be why I didn't ctach that. The tv.com forum only seems to be anti-Dani.
----
{{Andyzero}}: I seem to be engaged in a struggle between describing the possibility of Nanoha and Yuuno's relationship as either "having more evidence" or "being more traditional." Can {{Jisu}} please explain why it has more evidence? Nanoha herself is rather a ChasteHero, and fired up the SelectiveObliviousness the few times he tried bringing up the subject.
{{Jisu}}: Ah, so ''you're'' the Feinano shipper that keeps changing it to "traditional". The thing is, he's actually ''expressed'' interest, and besides Hayate and Alisa, has the cast working for him too. Despite the fact that he's been PutOnABus in [=StrikerS=], they're ''still'' hinting at it, and how could anyone ''not'' see that blushy silent conversation as anything but finally reciprocated? Whereas the Fate ShipTease, I think, is there to get the yuri fanboys going (you and I both know how they treat Yuuno on ImageBoards while elevating Fate as a goddess, and demographic appeal is everything).
Ship-slanted? Naaah.
{{Andyzero}}: Sounds like you are more backlashing against the fandom itself. That's not "hard evidence" and I'll change it every time you do.
{{Jisu}}: Possibly. But if you're going to do that, please just explain the "more traditional" bit, as it sounds like ''you'' are backlashing against ''my'' ship too.
{{Andyzero}}: Sure. Other than the supplementary materials saying that two other character's ''once'' encouraged Yuuno; (as if any Japanese person would ever be blunt enough to say "stop trying, she's into girls") Nanoha has blushed at both Fate ''and'' Yuuno. Yet you are citing this as more "hard evidence" for Yuuno's case than it is for Fate. Thus giving blushing at Yuuno more weight is more traditional.
{{Jisu}}: I knew you were going to pull that on me. I think this is less about rights and canon than it is a ship war, and if it's a ship war, I know I'm going to lose because your pairing has way more fans than mine does.
{{osh}}: I wasn't even aware this was anything past an amusing 'alternative' ship since the series doesn't seem to go for those the way fans do, but we're talking about the Nanoha who sleeps in the same bed with a blonde and are basically raising little miss BoatLights, yes? I thought this entry was for shipping drama ''despite'' a relevant series not supporting the drama (read: fans are nuts).
{{Andyzero}}: Also, there is no "Kill the rat" meme. If it doesn't show up on Google, not enough people are openly saying it on the Internet for it to be a "meme." Stop acting like victims.
----
FastEddie: This 'graph
--> Hate shrines. Death fics. Fics where the [[CharacterDerailment formerly sweet and loyal character]] cheats on the heroine with her two best friends and proceeds to murder her teammates, just so she can be with the JerkWithAHeartOfGold, or the StalkerWithACrush, or [[BrotherSisterIncest her brother]], or whomever else the fan prefers. Canon material where your romantic rival dies to make place for you. They're all over the place. If authors don't engage in the former quickly enough fans will quickly start to hate them. People who know nothing about the show or even the genre know much of the fandom ''hates'' the rival love interest, often pertaining to have justified motives over a thinly disguised shipper heart. But it's for a very clear reason. He or she dared to get in the way of their {{OTP}}. Can we get a little MST3KMantra here, please?
... is not English. It is an example of why people denigrate fanfic.
{{Jisu}}: As I recall, ''you'' denigrated all {{H-games}} as being about serial rapists that one time, and ''I'' got defensive... Hypocrisy aside, there is a great deal of difference between all fanfic and badfic.
{{Ununnilium}}: Eddie: Bwah? Other than a couple of grammatical errors and extra words, it's a perfectly servicable paragraph. Lemme eliminate those and see what you think.
----
{{Jisu}}: Hope the picture's good. I considered a few, but there's no way that poor Aoyama-kun could ''not'' be the poster boy here.
----
{{Ununnilium}}: Taking out "Except for those who ship Karasuma+Tenma. Or the occasional Yakumo+Harima pairings." because the slight increase in accuracy doesn't make up for the large loss in funny. `` Also taking out "Though once she stopped being a Faux Action Girl in Shipuuden, she became a decently cool character. Specifically, this editor would like to meet the man who didn't think the scene where she owns the [[spoiler:Third Kazekage's puppet]] wasn't totally and completely awesome." because the coolness of the character doesn't matter to the example.
{{Roland}}: Just wondering why you insist on keeping this ''School Rumble'' thing so vehemently. Yes, I suppose it's a tad bit funny, but it's an untrue example. The two largest shippings in School Rumble fandom, and the cause of most arguments are Harima/Eri and Harima/Yakumo. Harima's crush on Tenma is pretty much irrelevant to the fandom. Arguably, the Harima/Yakumo pairing is the most popular to the mangaka himself judging by the manga/anime and the fact that they're the closest in terms of an actual relationship/
{{Ununnilium}}: Honestly, I've never ''seen'' the show; the line inserted above was just badly-shoved-in. Change it if you must, but rewrite it so your evidence fits; don't just staple it on at the end.
----
{{Ununnilium}}: Took out from the ''KimPossible'' entry, since it doesn't really matter:
"It was also confirmed by director Steve Loter that Tara had originally been planned as Ron's love interest to correlate with Josh, but story ideas never really developed."
Later:
**However, the one most likely to be turned into a psycho in fanfic is Yamato/Matt, as the Tai(chi)/Sora fandom was the biggest from day one.
***This editor only partially agrees, since the Tai(chi)/Yamato fans ''and'' some Tai(chi)/Sora fans are equally strong and vocal about their loath for Sora. The first see her as a couplebreaker, the others are pissy because she chose Yamato over Tai.
This seems to prove what the entry says -- no specific popular combination.
Later:
*** Please tell me you're joking.
[[ConversationInTheMainPage Guess.]]
----
FastEddie: pulled hot linked image: TokyoMewMew [=http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6466/imagepm8.jpg=]
GracieLizzie: Why? It's an imageshack image, that's what imageshack is for.
{{Cassius335}}: Seconded and restored.
----
{{Ununnilium}}:
** And then, there's Ryouga. If you have to ask, do you want to know?
''Yes''. Explain it or there's no point in putting it in the entry.
Though in this troper's opinion Orihime bashing is much more frequent than Rukia bashing, especially since the beginning of the latest arc. (Incidentally, this troper would like it best if Ichigo was completely removed from the equation, leaving [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Orihime and Rukia together]]...)
**** The troper isn't adverse at the idea itself, though she'd rather see Orihime with Matsumoto or Tatsuki instead. Hehe.
DiscussionInTheMainPage.
** This troper disagrees in one of these cases. Taichi was much less bashed than Sora [[spoiler: ("Whore who first was after Taichi and then betrayed him!")]] and Yamato [[spoiler: ("Traitor who surely raped Sora to brainwash her into choosing him and not Taichi!")]] And don't forget how Miyako took the brunt of the bashing in the [[DigimonAdventure02 Miyako-Ken-Daisuke]] [[spoiler: because ''she'' got Ken in the end and not Daisuke]]
We went over this further up the page, with different contributors who had seen one or the other bashed way more.
----
GloatingSwine: Snipped Macross stuff until I can rewrite it/merge it into BetterThanCanon. It certainly doesn't fit here, as it appears to be talking about the canon events, and only Guld in Macross Plus ever died for the ship in canon, and ''that'' was understandable in context.
Done, purged from here, doesn't fit.
----
Does the comment on Donna bashing in Doctor Who really belong here?
Though I have seen the bashing, it seems a lot less based on shipping, and more hating Catherine Tate for being a comedy actress/Donna being designed to be obnoxious in 'Runaway Bride'/Donna being basically a JonasQuinn for Rose and/or Martha.
*I personally think it does - I saw a lot of Rosefen (and Marthafen) hating on Donna because she got in the way of their OTP.
----
{{Lale}}: This is WildMassGuessing: "Though with the finale approaching soon, expect plenty of HeroicSacrifice from Aang, and possibly Mai as well in the FanFic to come, leaving two loose ends to comfort each other."
ConversationInTheMainPage:
** Due to the popularity of Zutara, there's been a trend among some Katara/Aang and Mai/Zuko shippers to bash the ''competition'' to their ship. Katara/Aang fans will call Zuko a whiny ugly emo bitch and Mai/Zuko shippers dismiss Katara as a CanonSue.
*** I would hasten to say it seems these shippers just think she's a CanonSue , thanks to the fact that many males in the series seem to have an instant thing for her, along with the instant expertise, this has lead at least one of them to join the HMS Maiko out of exhaustion and a want to avoid the major pissing match. Zuko Hate is more a reaction to [[TheWoobie something]] [[DracoInLeatherPants else]]. . .
The latter was correcting the former as incorrect and sounds accurate.
More ConversationInTheMainPage:
*** [[{{Kriegsmesser}} This troper]] wasn't. He thinks it makes an interesting LoveTriangle.
*** There are some waiting for one of the ladies to be proved AxeCrazy or BrainwashedAndCrazy enough to MurderTheHypotenuse (or justfy the competition doing same), while rather more are hoping they can sneak a TenchiSolution in a [[AnimationAgeGhetto "Kid's" Show]].
Ellie: As the person who put up the first part, no, it was not incorrect. As a witness of many ship wars, a minority of the fandom do bash the characters for those very reasons (I can go dig for for threads are forums if evidence is needed). I'll put it back up unless anyone has any other objections.
{{Ununnilium}}: Yeah, I'm honestly sure there ''are'' some who feel just that way.
----
{{Lale}}: Cut "Made increasingly insane in that the book is autobiographical, with Jo being the AuthorAvatar of Lou, and sister May (Amy's real life counterpart) did in truth marry Laurie's real life counterpart." I don't remember the name of May Alcott's husband, but I know it wasn't Laurie's RealLife inspiration, Ladislas Wisnewski. As for Amy's CanonSue albel, that has little to do with shipping. She may ''not'' truly be a MarySue, but the narrator thinks she is and praises her as such.
{{Jisu}}: Similarly, cut the responses to Aoyama: he's ''not'' perfect, only in the eyes of Ichigo and his fangirls. In fact, he feels forced to ''act'' perfect because his parents have given him the idea that no one will care about him otherwise. He also has compounded issues from his girlfriend being chased after by perverts and constantly risking her life, which leads him to become overprotective of her, but [[CharacterDevelopment he learns and grows out of that]] -- a fact that people ignore in their quest to prove him to be a FlatCharacter.
----
{{Rogue 7}}: Soi Fong and Yoruichi. Sexy Threesome adventures. I would pay a ''lot'' to be in Urahara's shoes for that.
----
{{fleb}}: This ''DigimonTamers'' threadmode addendum is so long, I'm double-percent-sign'ing it into oblivion so it can't even be read here without editing the page.
{{Cassius335}}: Well, that's pointless. Edit made. It ''is'' over-long, not arguing there...
**Similarly, in reference to ''{{Digimon Tamers}}'', some sects of the fandom have spawned an overly-complex "[[LoveDodecahedron Love Hexagon]]" concerning Rika (Ruki), Takato, Jeri (Juri), Henry, Alice (despite her only appearing briefly in the series), and Ryo, which loops back to Rika. The Hexagon results in a conflict of interests between any single character and the other three potential mates of the other gender. It's moderately justified, for example, due to Takato's interest in both Rika and Jeri (going out of his way to help both girls consecutively in that season) and the mysteriousness of Alice (this factor about the blonde goth also permitting shipping with the other two males as well). The Hexagon can also be seen as the culminations of the shipping wars for that season. Separately however, the three frontrunners in battle usually come to Rika-Ryo, Rika-Takato (Or 'Rukato') and Takato-Jeri. The first is usually fantasized about by fangirls, the third by Takato's drive to save Jeri in the final arc of the season, and the Second due to the work Takato did in bringing Rika out of her ice-queen shell (albeit said process given the most credit to Renamon's efforts, justifiably so..), as well as the events of the second ''Tamers'' movie 'Runaway Locomon' (the dubbed version, however, set it up more along the lines of the 'results of developing their friendship', to make it more children-oriented). Due to the similarity, references, and duality of ''Tamers'' characters and plot with those of ''NeonGenesisEvangelion'', the fans of said series have a tendency to ship the same boats (Shinji-Asuka and Takato-Rika, for example).
{{OverMaster}}: This troper begins to wonder if it was needed to twist the Yuiichi Tate example with so much of the subjective bashing we're supposed to be criticizing here...
----
{{Rebochan}}: This trope confuses me:
* Some fans like to make Guido from ''SamuraiPizzaCats'' an abusive jerk, to enable the Speedy/Polly pairing.
The last episode of SamuraiPizzaCats paired Speedy and Polly canonically. Guido was never interested in Polly - he and Speedy always fueded over Lucille, who was unpaired at the end of the show. I admit it's been a long time since I've hung around the SPC circuit, but I've never heard of this type of fic. Could someone help me out here?
{{colleen4ever}}: Some of those fics are on fanfiction.net. Mostly written as an F-you to all the Guido supporters on another website- edoropolis.org- which is basically an 'I love Guido' website and think that Speedy is a brainless jerk, not worthy of Polly despite the final ep, she belongs with Guido, etc. This trouper was on that website a while ago, and was stoned and made fun of for being a Speedy fan!
{{Sarahsuke}}: Since I know who you are from Edoropolis Eporium, {{colleen4ever}}, may I kindly suggest not stirring up drama on ''this'' website too? (For the confused, that particular troper believes that anyone who doesn't agree with her unrealistic ideal of Speedy/Polly is bashing them. In fact, the only "stoning" she got from the EE members was because of her childish behavior. Pay her no mind.)
----
puritybrown: I don't really hang around the ''Runaways'' fandom much, but I've noticed a few people saying they dislike Xavin because s/he gets in the way of Karolina/Nico ship. Any ''Runaways'' fans want to confirm/deny this?
{{PellyCan}}: I've seen it, although I think pairing up the beautiful teenage girls with each other instead of with the genderbending alien seems more like {{Better Than Canon}}.
----
TheNifty: this page has so many {{Take That}}s and {{Justifying Edit}}s that reading it is an odd experience; all of the shippers who keep re-writing this to make other possible ships look bad (or their own look good) have rendered it positively schizophrenic. Urgh, it's poorly written enough to make my head hurt. Quit ComplainingAboutShippersYouDontLike.
WillyFourEyes: I agree, and I'm tempted to call for an ExampleSectionectomy here. This has gotten ''way'' out of hand.
----
{{fleb}}: SlickNickShady: So... where's the "Factual Error" in these bullet points? They sound fine to me.
(I restored the explanation about Josh Mankey's personality, too. Seriously, it's not as if explaining things like this impugns the {{canon}}-ness of Kim/Ron or something.)
->** Ron's ex girlfriend [[YamatoNadeshiko Yori]] is amazingly immune from this despite her relationship with Ron being canon for the first two seasons of the show, she receives very little hate in fanfiction and generally remains as likable as she is in the show. This can probably be attributed to her graceful acceptance of Kim and Ron's relationship in the season four episode "Big Bother". She also remains the favored character for [[LesYay Kigo]] shippers to pair off Ron with.
->** Kim also suffers from this in "Rongo" stories that pair him with Shego. Some are well done, but often Kim is transformed into a demanding, jealous bitch who treats Ron like dirt. One [[WallBanger wallbanging]] fic had her [[EmoTeen slash her wrists]] after the pair were married.
->** A small faction of Kigo writers also portray Ron as a completely incompetent and useless tag-along who doesn't have any redeming qualities. Thus, someone who doesn't "deserve" Kim. These more extreme Shippers portray his friendship with Kim as little more than "generosity" (i.e., pity) on Kim's part. He usually isn't killed off by such writers, but usually has his role reduced to little more than an annoying [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] everyone else puts up with.
----
{{Rogue 7}}: Whoaaa Nelly, there, Unknown20Troper. Any chance you could cut down on the size of that "FairlyOddparents" section?
----
Black Charizard: This paragraph:
->See, an [[MostFanficWritersAreGirls average female]] going through puberty has ten times the lethal dose of estrogen running through her veins. This effectively gives the subject godlike abilities to discern which relationships will turn out in the end despite proof or character development or even the WordOfGod saying otherwise. This obviously takes a toll on said subject's sanity, and they then go out of their way to prove to every single person on the internet why they're right, you're wrong, and you should go slug bleach.
...is unnecessarily biting. I'm cutting it.
----
DeadpoolFan: In the fourth episode of the second season of Spectacular Spider-Man, where Liz and Peter start off their relationship... was I the only one who said "Bitch" to myself for how Liz stopped the Gwen/Peter relationship from starting up?
-Actually, no. I said "bitch" too. However, I was adressing the one actually at fault, Peter....
----
{{Vulpy}}: Skimming this page may have [[BrownNote done something adverse to my sanity]], but for some reason, I couldn't stop until I hit the end. [[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife Fandoms scare me sometimes.]] What's worse is that I'm starting to ''understand''...
----
{{Taelor}}: At the person who keeps changing all of the Japanese names from Eastern to Western order, I have a question: Why do you care. Is it really that important?
----
{{Marionetta}}: Cut this, which I was involved in. Under the ''AxisPowersHetalia'' examples...
** It seems the trope has finally come down on ''England,'' of all characters - there has been a number of Russia/America fanfics that portray him as a sick, twisted {{yandere}} who tortures America. This troper still can't wrap her head around it.
*** Really? I was under the impression that America/England was far and away the most popular ship in Western fandom. Are you sure there's that many fics doing such?
**** Well, these were obviously not written by America/England fans... I've seen at least four, with two by the same author.
***** If the author is who I think it is, I don't think the point of the fic(s) was DFOS, since almost everything s/he writes is DarkFic and unhealthy relationships. The author also said that s/he doesn't see England as a creepy rapist {{Yandere}}, apparently just some sort of kink. Said author has even written England/America [[{{WAFF}} fluff]] before. (Sorry for the {{Natter}})
***** Whatever the intent may have been, the stories ''read'' as DieForOurShip. And even if that particular author is "excused," the other stories still remain.
I didn't take out that first line, but even counting the fics I find questionable I'm just not sure if there are significant or vocal enough to actually consider it a fandom opinion. It looks like they are mostly working alone. I've also seen a couple/few fics in which Hungary is bashed to pair up Prussia/Austria, but that's not a widespread enough thing, so... But if this ''is'' true, consider me shocked speechless. I'm not new to fandom, but... ItNeverGetsAnyEasier. Making England evil to pair up Russia and America would make me want to [[WallBanger break some walls]].
Stalker!Anon: The author may have written England/America fluff before but s/he seems to have taken a dislike for that pairing, so Sick Yandare!England might have been, if not a full DieForOurShip reaction, but a decision motivated by shipping nonetheless.
{{Barano}}: "Sink For Our Ship"?
{{Solandra}}: I recently reformatted the ''AxisPowersHetalia'' example (though the Poland/Lithuania vs. Russia/Lithuania addition isn't mine); as much as I love the fandom for being mostly sane and civil, there didn't need to be so many bullet points compounding that fact. Although I have to agree that the listed cases are more the exception than the rule - the added Poland/Lithuania vs. Russia/Lithuania example made me go O_o as I honestly haven't seen much of that going on (isn't Russia ''supposed'' to be {{Yandere}} for Lithuania in canon?) and I'm fairly certain that the majority of Russia/America fics focus more on the MindGameShip aspect than dragging England into it. Let us hope that this remains the case. (What would ''really'' make me cry would be fans of my {{OTP}} deciding to bash France and/or Russia.) ETA: I think I know which author the above discussion is referring to and it looks like she really does ''hate'' America/England, according to the comments she made in regards to her multichaptered Russia/America fic on how she views America/England as just plain wrong and England's crush on America as a shallow one he needs to grow out of. SoYeah, there was probably a subconscious influence going on there in regards to yandere!England. At least she's civil towards people who do like America/England, and usually just treats England as America's father figure or [[ShipMates pairs him off with France]].
Stalker!Anon: If we're talking about the same author, she has actually said multiple times that she hated America/England. :/ It's sad because I like both pairings and her stories are generally not bad but her attitude to and treatment of England and America/England just ruins them for me.
{{Solandra}}: Yeah, I really do think she's an excellent writer and I especially like her gen fics, but her disparagement of America/England prevents me from fully getting into her Russia/America fics because I keep on seeing subtle America/England backlash in them even if it wasn't meant to be there. I understand people not liking America/England because they think of it as more of a brotherly or father/son relationship or that England's feelings are one-sided or even because they've got a boatload of emotional issues, but her statement that England [[LovingAShadow is only idealizing America]] makes me tempted to comment over there to ask if we're talking about the same England here (you know, the England who constantly complains about America and his harebrained plans?). And her saying that she writes England as getting over his crush on America or being in love with France instead because she'd hate him otherwise...yeah, I probably won't go there again.
And I really, really hope that her going from being okay with America/England or at least not hating it enough to avoid writing fluff for it to empathically hating it wasn't mainly because she thought that her growing love of Russia/America meant that she ''had'' to turn on the main opposing ship. Because my esteem of her would go down the tubes if that was the case.
----
CountDorku: Re: the Scarlet Witch/Vision/Wonder Man example: there's one minor problem. Someone appears to have deleted a link to some other trope (probably due to cutting), without being able to spare the time to fix the example. It features the phrase "Busiek pulled a "" by having Wonder Man [rest of paragraph not really relevant]". Anyone remember what it was, or be willing to guess what?
DragonQuestZ: Likely "I Am Not Making This Up". Now in this case the paragraph is relevant. Does it refer to the writer telling the audience this is true? If so, you can replace it with NotMakingThisUpDisclaimer. If not, then just adjust the paragraph.
--
{{Orihime}}: Deleted the whole LoveHina example for becoming an uber-example of the trope. Naru/Keitarou fan, when you whine about Motoko fanboys bashing your poor Naru while going to almost insane lengths to "prove" how utterly ''horrible'' you think Motoko is, [[MoralMyopia you've just showed yourself as being as dumb as the ones you complain about]].
** The [[TVTropesWikiDrinkingGame egregious]] CharacterExaggeration that she goes through [[AdaptationDecay in the anime]], where her {{Tsundere}} behavior is amped up to the point of making her ''abusive'' towards Keitaro, doesn't help Naru's case ''at all''.
** Some Keitaro/Motoko fans get quite hypocritical about this: they hate Naru for beating up Keitaro, but they throw laurels on Motoko, who behaves the ''exact same way''. They miss the point that any and ''all'' slapstick that goes on in the series is being [[ComedicSociopathy played for laughs]].
*** Naru ''does'' sometimes go beyond ComedicSociopathy and basically beats up Keitarou for ''existing'' and/or when she ''knows'' he's innocent of what he's accused for, something that Motoko hasn't done (she ''does'' apologize to Keitarou more than once when the misunderstands are cleared up). In those cases, ''even'' the slapstick reasons wear thin, and Naru comes off less as a {{Tsundere}} haremette and more like a {{domestic abuse}}r who bullies a helpless Keitarou no matter what he does. Goddammit, {{Flanderization}}, not even Akane Tendō was that bad.
*** There's also the fact that Motoko's behavior can be seen under the light of her relationship with [[BrokenPedestal her sister Tsuruko]], which conditioned [[DoesnotLikeMen her view of males]] and relationships quite a bit ([[spoiler: Tsuruko left the way of the sword to get married, Motoko is troubled because of that]]). Whereas Naru doesn't have a clear reason to treat Keitarou the way she does aside of her {{Tsundere}} mood swings... SoYeah.
**** Which, of course, is completely overlooking the fact that Motoko, at first, was the most dismissive of Keitaro and kept hating him for longer than the other girls (Kaolla never did, Shinobu, kind soul that she is, forgave him as soon as he proved himself, Kitsune and Naru took a little bit longer, but just a little). Oh, and the fact that Motoko tried a potentially-lethal technique by using ''Keitaro'' as a target (Volume 5). Just say it, Motoko fanboys. You give her a pass because she's a HotChickWithASword and poor Naru isn't.
{{Rogue 7}}: heh. This discussion is amusing. I like Naru well enough, but Keitaro can have her. I want Motoko all to myself. Boom, shipping war solved.
JusticeGundam: I was the one to add the Motoko "demonization", which I didn't really intend to come off as such, and I will answer to that. I also happen to ''like'' Motoko, and it was not my intention to bash her. My intention was to show her fans that she, like most characters in the anime/manga, falls in the same ComedicSociopathy behaviour as well. And despite ''that'', fans of the manga don't hate her for beating up Keitaro, while they rant and cuss at Naru for as much as looking at Keitaro funny. My peeve was not with Motoko, it was with the fact that, because Motoko is an ActionGirl, and because according to some fans RealWomenNeverWearDresses, ''her'' behaviour towards Keitaro is overlooked and/or seen as funny, while Naru gets all the heat for punching the guy.
And, yes, I did acknowledge that Motoko's attitude towards Keitaro changed with CharacterDevelopment. But yes, I guess I did not come clear on what I was trying to say, and I apologize for that.
----
Thesunisup: Removed the nattery bits of the Hetalia example, because it reads like people are actively ''trying'' to shoehorn the trope onto the series. The trope is DieForOurShip, not BehaveSlightlyOutOfCharacterForOurShip. The deleted section ran as follows:
** While the majority of Russia/America fans don't hate [[{{Tsundere}} England]] (he's a pretty popular character in fandom), he tends to be placed in a negative role when included in their fics. It's usually mild, with him disliking their relationship because of his [[BigBrotherComplex paternal]] or [[HopelessSuitor romantic]] feelings for America but not going crazy over it, but some fics depict him as actively hating Russia [[ClingyJealousGirl out of jealousy]] or even America for breaking away from him (instead of just being Tsundere towards him, as he is in canon), or being creepily possessive of America in a manner more suited for ''[[{{Yandere}} Russia]]'', going so far as to torture him in a few fics even though America is ''far'' physically stronger than him.
** A more subdued example is the portrayal of [[TheWhitePrince Austria]] in some [[HotBlooded Prussia]]/[[ActionGirl Hungary]] fanwork. Since the Austria/Hungary OfficialCouple can be ''very'' easily seen as an ArrangedMarriage due to the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Compromise_of_1867 Austro-Hungarian Compromise]], some P/H fans basically twist Austria into a sort-of KichikuMegane, portraying him as [[TheUnfairSex cold and neglectful of Hungary's emotional needs to the point of abuse]] so she can be justified into seeking out comfort in [[UnluckyChildhoodFriend Prussia]]'s arms and [[YourCheatingHeart cheating on her husband with him]]. They don't go so far as to make Austria [[DomesticAbuse beat the Hell out of Hungary]] (who's still [[HotAmazon physically]] [[NinjaMaid stronger]] [[NonActionGuy than he is]], anyway), but they "forget" that they get along pretty well even ''after'' their "divorce"...
** Even Hungary, normally embraced by fans for being a HotAmazon and YaoiFangirl, isn't 100% free of this. There are at least two Germany/Austria fics where she's portrayed as a ClingyJealousGirl who breaks the Austro-Hungarian compromise ''solely'' because Austria pays less attention to her than she wants to. Seems somebody hasn't read the Anschluss and/or Valentines strips, huh?
*** A more subdued version is having Hungary ''only'' as the local YaoiFangirl who loves watching others hit on Austria, but neglecting to have them interact in a more personal/romantic way. That brings out quite a bit of UnfortunateImplications: having a woman hang out with the slashable guys is okay as long as she doesn't ''dare'' to set her eyes on a guy she's ''canonly'' intrested on, because her only acceptable "role" is to serve as the OtakuSurrogate and possible PossessionSue that fangirls can use to project themselves on her. FanDumb, much?
** The ShipToShipCombat between Russia/Lithuania and Poland/Lithuania shippers has fallen more than once into this. The most rabid Poland/Lithuania shippers portray Russia as a CompleteMonster who beats and rapes Lithuania ForTheEvulz (cashing on his status as a MemeticMolester), and the most vocal Russia/Lithuania fans take Poland's initial selfishness to {{Flanderization}} extremes.
*** In Russia's case, though, he's a canon PsychopathicManchild and {{Yandere}} who almost certainly ''scarred'' Lithuania, and many Russia/Lithuania fics portray their relationship as [[MindGameShip twisted and unhealthy]]. It can be hard to tell if a writer who depicts Russia as being horribly abusive toward Lithuania is doing so out of shipping preferences or is simply trying to adhere to Russia's canon characterization.
**** The problem is, [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation Russia is quite more complex than that]]. He ''is'' a PsychopathicManchild, yeah, but on the other hand he one ''really'' [[TearJerker heartbreaking]] StartOfDarkness ("Bloody Sunday", anyone?) ''that Lithuania himself witnessed'', and once in a while he's shown to more or less care for Liet himself ''and'' for Ukraine (he was remarkably stable in the manga volume where she's introduced). Making Russia a CompleteMonster is [[{{Flanderization}} horribly simplistic]], and not to mention some Poland/Liet fans seem to view Lithuania less as a genuine {{Woobie}} but as a whiny, weepy SympatheticSue who martirizes himself and can only be rescued from Russia's abuse by Poland.
** Another quite mild and recent example is Belarus, whose status as a {{Yandere}} stalker of the stalker is played heavily for laughs in the series (and is what earns her fans), but more serious fics with Russia pairings take this and [[{{Flanderization}} exaggerate it to]] CompleteMonster levels.
Ulla: Except England depicted as a sick yandere towards America, Austria as wife-beater or Poland as a selfish asshole in order to facilitate "rival" pairings is not "slightly out of character" it's VERY out of character and qualifies as DieForOurShip. The phenomenon ''is'' present in the fandom. Edit the entry if you want but there's no reason to remove it entirely.
----
{{Solandra}}: Er, does anyone know what's up with the folder system suddenly not working for the examples? I tried fixing it, but got no results (at least from the preview page).
And I can't help but notice that if this article keeps on expanding, we're eventually going to have to create subpages for this trope. Which is kind of depressing when you think about it.