tag)?

{{Janitor}}: @@Let's see. This _should_ work.@@

{{Micah}}: Excellent. Thanks!
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{{Fighteer}}: There seems to be an EditWar brewing on ''WingCommander'' between people who insist on talking about FanDumb about the movie on other sites and those who feel it's unnecessary. One side is being a bit less polite than the other. Added: "lockhead" is apparently trying to keep the page checked out so his "contribution" can't be deleted. And he's still at it an hour later. Administrative action may be required here if he doesn't start behaving.

{{lockhead}}: I will remove the entry myself if an objective third party can give a good explanation on why this entry should not be included.

{{Janitor}}: Alrighty. I'll pop the lock off. Working with folks around here is actually easier than you might be used to from your expeirences elsewhere. Dropping into the discussion page right away when you see some conflict rising saves you and everyone some grief, and tropers in general are good people to talk to. ;-)

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{{Seanette}}: Why is it impossible to correct VomitIndiscretionShot from a "work" to a "trope" in the "This article describes" dropdown?

{{Madrugada}}: I just fixed it. There are two things to keep in mind: you have to also make an edit to the page for the change to stick; and for some reason, on some pages you have to change it twice, firdst from the wrong listing to 'blank', make a minor edit on the page and save, then reopen the edit window, change 'blank' to the correct listing, make another minor edit (even if it's just undoing what you did the first time) and save again.

{{Seanette}}: Seems unnecessarily complex (software hiccup?). Thanks for the info and the fix.

{Madrugada}}: I'm guessing hiccup, since sometimes you can do it without the "blanking step."
----
{{McJeff}}: How would one go about starting one of those Vote For An Image polls?  TheAce had a long-standing image of a "The Kid" Magic Card, basically an archetype rather than a specific character.  Recently, RedDwarf fans want an image of a character named Arnold "Ace" Rimmer who see the guy as a partial trope-namer, other people disagreed, then one of the admins set it up as a no-image article.  Seems to me an image-votey-thing would be better than a blank white article and/or edit warring.

NateTheGreat:  I agree.  I still preferred the Ranma love chart for LoveDodecahedron.  More boring, but easier to illustrate the phenomenon.

{{Madrugada}}: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/PageAction/TheAce  Add links to your voting options, make a note on the page itself and the discussion page that it exists With a link to the crowner, and let people vote until the numbers stabilize, then ask the admins to unlock the page so you can add the image.

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{{Madrugada}}: Page vandalism on MagnificentBastard by kane 218.111.46.45. He decided all on his own that MagnificentBastard should be a namespace and split out each genre section into a new page, plus deleted the whole real life section. It's been repaired, but that's a bit much.

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{{Triassicranger}}: Why is it that there isn't a reviews button on the show page for ''MaskedRider''? As it's a series (and if I'm not mistaken, it has been listed under the index American Series) there should be one.

{{Madrugada}} It hadn't been tagged as "a work" in the pulldown at the bottom of the edit page. It is now, and it has the reviews note.

{{Triassicranger}}: Thank you.
----
Glowsquid: There is an EditWar on [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Horrible/Anime?action=diff So Bad it's Horrible:Anime]]. Some anon has a frothing hatred of AfroSamurai and is adding it (Even though it doesn't fit the criteria of the page, as it was successfull and fairly well-received) while removing several entries on the ground that those are "better" than Afro samurai. Any actions by an admin or senior member is appreciated.

{{lee4hmz}}: Just so it doesn't get lost in the noise, that same anon is also insisting that ''FubukiArcadeGamer'' doesn't belong there because [[HePannedItNowHeSucks "ANN panned it, so I hate them."]] 

{{Jerrik}}: This guy seems to be making several controversial edits, and keeps adding them back whenever they get deleted, as seen on the [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Gush/VideoGames?action=diff Gushing About Video Games You Like]] page. I don't ''think'' he's a troll, but someone may want to tell him to tone it down a bit.
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CrypticMirror: Uh we have something of an EditWar going on in the ''[[RanmaOneHalf Ranma 1/2]]'' page by a new fan and some of the old guard (who really should know better) over some of the more subjective tropes and character iterpretations.  Can some one of sufficient seniority step in and sort it out?
----
{{Jordan}}: Not sure if this happens to anyone else, but whenever a new Review is posted and I click on it, it takes me to something that says like JustBugsMe/Bleach but is basically a blank screen.

SatanicHamster: I get that same problem too.
----
{{Alcatrazz}} Hey, anyone remember that shit that Unit Omega was inadvertently doing a couple months ago? UndercoverMonk is pulling the same thing.
----
{{Citizen}}: How is page history kept track of on this site?  If it's "Last X edits, and everything else is lost", what is the value of X?  I was wondering, since I noticed my user page history only has the last edit (10/31), even when selecting to view all history.

{{Janitor}}: We're in the process of building a way to see the archived history. History gets archived every 90 days, reducing the "live" history to the last 30 days. The last archiving run was 2 Nov. ETA: The initial display of history is the last ten of the live history. Clicking "all" gives you all the live history.
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{{Triassicranger}}: Wasn't sure whether to put this where I originally made the motion (below) but unfortunately {{The_Nerd}} is now making vandalism (again on the Discontinuity Discontinuity/ComicBook page) under the IP address 132.241.245.229 . Motion to block that IP address.

{{lee4hmz}}: That IP is part of a subnet belonging to CSU Chico, and someone mentioned in the edit history that it belongs to a computer lab (indeed, the entire /24 seems to go to that particular set of terminals). Banning an entire Class C would be a bad idea, so if it keeps up, a note to their abuse department may be in order.

{{Triassicranger}}: What exactly should we ask the abuse department to do? Actually I've thought up another idea. Is it possible to just block the IP from editing that page only? Or just impose an editing block?

{{Janitor}}: An edit block has been installed. 

{{Madrugada}}: It didn't work; he just moved to another computer and is continuing the edit war. Last post was from 132.241.246.161, others have been from  132.241.245.222, 132.241.245.168, 132.241.246.149, and 132.241.245.110. Who knows how many computer labs there are on that campus...

{{Janitor}}: Okay. We will edit-block (not outright block, just shut off editing for) 132.241.*. If this is inconveniencing someone at CSU Chico, please find this dork and explain your position to him. 

barkingspider: Umm. I go to CSU Chico and was the one to inform whoever that we're on the school computers. I only discovered this site recently through a... not exactly a friend, but a classmate that I'm on good terms with. I don't exactly know if ''he'' is this "The_Nerd" guy, but I think he is. I just saw him use this computer here a few minutes ago and he looked kinda pissed off. If he's done anything on this site recently, tell me so I can confirm my suspicions. I don't wanna go "Knock the fuck off" without a bit of confirmation first. 

barkingspider: I noticed a new edit on the discontinuity page, but I don't know how IP's work to tell if the one just used is the one I'm using right now or if it's a different one on the same systerm (or is it a network?). I only noticed that the first couple of IP number... things are the same.

{{Madrugada}}: Barkingspider, The_Nerd made that last edit at 12:34pm site time from the same computer you added your last comment from at 1:07pm site time. I don't know how site time compares to Chico local, but it was the same computer and 33 three minute earlier. If that means you know who he is, have at it. Incidentally, if you open up the page histories for this page and the Discontinuity/Comics page, you can see the exact IP that each edit was made from. It's the string of numbers following the name (or where the name would be.) In this case, both your post and his were from 132.241.246.127. You can also see the time that the post was made.

{{Triassicranger}}: Thank you again, {{Janitor}}.
----
{{Seanette}}: Why does WhyDidItHaveToBeSnakes display in Firefox with lines between examples, and can it be fixed?

{{Madrugada}}: There were always lines between the examples, but they used to be very faint dotted lines that were easy to not see. They've been changed to solid lines that are more visible.

{{Seanette}}: Never appeared before for me, and why the change? It's visual clutter that makes the page less readable. (Update: it's back to the light dotted lines, which are much less visually intrusive. Those still didn't show up for me before yesterday, in most cases.)
----
{{Citizen}}: Why was DeadpanSnarker locked again instead of just banning 218.111.18.141?  (I miss the Kyon picture, too, but I'm not going to fight the PowersThatBe over it.) And while I'm thinking about it, what was the justification for removing [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/cit_zero_no_tsukaima2_louise_whip.jpg my image]] for RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale, anyway?  Too anime?  The history doesn't go that far back anymore.
----
{{thatother1dude}}: Why is it that certain pages seem to have {{edit war}}s over replacing random punctuation with overly detailed formatting code?

MasoTey:  You mean things like em dashes turning into strings of characters (which still display as em dashes on the page) and back again?  I think that's happening automatically and has something to do with how different people's browsers read the characters[[hottip:*:Or something.  I'm afraid I'm not techy.]], rather than deliberate edit warrage.  I've had them show up in my edits when the only thing I touched was on a completely different part of the page.

MrDeath: Yeah, that's automatic. Personally, whenever I go through I just replace it with text that doesn't do that.
----
I think I messed up creating a page for {{Shadowgrounds}}... one link doesn't work, and I'm not sure the page is in the correct location.  Fixable? 

MasoTey:  That link right there works, and shows a complete page.  If by location you mean namespace, that's not usually an issue; works can (and very often do) go in Main.  (The page does need an index -- help?)

PaulA: If you meant that there's a link on the {{Shadowgrounds}} page that doesn't work, I've just fixed it. You can look at the page's edit history to see how I did it.
----
{{Seanette}}: What's with the new "Make a To Do" button?

MasoTey:  I made a test one for my userpage; the resulting page had this written across the top:
-->This page shows a list of notes you have made for yourself about the given article. Nobody else sees it. Usually, these would be edits you mean to make when you are more in the mood for it than you were when you made the note.

{{Seanette}}: OK, thanks. I'm not usually inclined to start clicking things if I have no idea what they're going to do.
----
{{BrightBlueInk}}: The latest edit to JonAndKatePlusEight seems overly harsh, and biased towards haters of the show. Should I edit with it, or just leave it alone?

{{Seanette}}: As little respect as I have for the "parents" in question, I agree the article needs a) more objectivity and b) more literacy. Since I do not watch this, I don't feel qualified to revise it, but if you wish to, please do.
----
{{Madrugada}}: Page vandalism by SilurianKing (76.210.67.192) on http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheToblerone. He wiped it completely and made it a redirect to BoisterousBruiser with no discussion or reason given. It's been fixed, but can we get an editblock or ban on him, please?

{{Janitor}}: Edit block installed.

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{{Madrugada}}: Cross Propagation of pages between two works: {{Theatre/Nine}} is linked to the WMG page for the film {{9}}. I have no idea how to untangle it.
Here's the actual links: 
* The musical play: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Theatre/Nine
* The WMG page for the movie about the stitchpunks: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/Ptitle1d5irnza?from=WMG.Nine

{{Pro-Mole}}: Oh, that was me. The WMG/Nine page was about the movie already, so I made it into a redirect. Gonna fix this. There, fixed it: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/Nine

{{Madrugada}}: That didn't fix it, it just broke it differently. Now clicking on the "Main article" icon on the WMG page takes you to someone's contributor page. 

{{Pro-Mole}}: It was already like that... Seriously, I have no idea how to make WMG pages for anything not on the main namespace. Maybe WMG/Theatre.Nine?

{{Janitor}}: Mostly squared away, now. The Tin foil-icon on both Main and and Theatre go to the same WMG for 9. A soft division on that page should do, to make a distinction between the two works. 

{{Madrugada}}: I don't think there are any WMG entries for the play. Is there a way to break the link between the WMG page and the theatre page completely? Right now, if you start at the Theatre page, and go to the WMG page, and then try to use the "Main article" icon to go back, you get bounced to the stitchpunk movie page.
----
{{Pro-Mole}}: One more thing: the page icon is appearing as 4 arrows in many pages here. Not a serious concern, but a bit weird...
----
{{Pro-Mole}}: I just noticed a little itty bitty tiny detail that escaped my eyes for long enough... From the main page for [[{{ptitleq40okv0trw6h}} Complaining About Shows You Don't Like]]:

-> If you really want to gush about or knock on a show, TakeItToTheForums.

Oh, cool. Sure, we're being impartial here, if DarthWiki/ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontLike isn't available, then of course SugarWiki/GushingAboutShowsYouLike shouldn't also -- oops, what's that? That page exists?

Yes, DoubleStandard. And yes, I am suggesting the Sugar page shouldn't exist. It's as simple as "this rule is stated, it should be followed". Or [[OrwellianEditor change the rules]], you choose. I'm just pointing out the contradiction. Have a nice day.
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CrypticMirror: Um, silly question, but how do I create a WildMassGuessing page for an entry on the Fanfics index?  Specifically FanFic/TheReturn

{{Janitor}}: Click on this ( WMG/TheReturn ) and go.:-)

CrypticMirror:  Thank you :o)  How do I add it to the WMG index, it's folderised and there is no folder for FanFics, every other page I've tried to add a folder to I've screwed up and that is a big page to screw up?

MasoTey:  It looks like fanfic goes in the existing WebOriginal folder on that page.

{{Pro-Mole}}: The only one I noticed was in Other. We might have to create a FanFiction folder if the numbers grow too much...
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{{Seanette}}: Motion to block 75.127.130.11 following repeated hatchets on the UsefulNotes/{{Scientology}} page with much whining about his/her/its alleged lack of welcome here. I'm not aware of any prior issues with that person, but the whining and repeated hatchetings would certainly ''cause'' a person to become unwelcome here if I were an admin.

{{Janitor}}: Done.
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cg12345: I'm not sure if this goes here or on the Discussion for the HomePage. Anyways, as the HomePage is now apparently un-editable, would it be possible for [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure someone in authority]] to restore "Go on, have fun" to the end of the page? It just seems like something that ought to be there.

{{Janitor}}: Done. Thanks for catching that.
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{{Triassicranger}}: Motion to block {{The_Nerd}} for vandalism to the Discontinuity Discontinuity/ComicBook page, immature behaviour (as seen in the page history of that page) and calling other tropers insulting words, as seen on [[{{The_Nerd}} his contributor page]] and the DiscontinuityDiscussion page. Namely because he can't get over the fact there is a group of DC Fandom who want to bin everything after 2003, claiming it to be "whiney". His behaviour reduces any credibility of a case in support of him.

{{Janitor}}: Block installed.

{{Triassicranger}}: Thank you.

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{{Zadia}}: I've tried editing it to make it work, but for some reason the folders on the LostAndFound page just say [[folder:Lost]] and [[folder:Found]]. Anyone know why that is?

Zadia: It's OK, someone fixed it.
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{{Westrim}}
I posted about this on the forum, but since I just discovered this page I'll ask here too.

*The Admin: Janitor
*The Bans: IPs 68.105.173.119 and 76.93.112.128, My home and my Uncles which I was visiting.
*The Place of the Ban: Ensemble Darkhorse article (to my knowledge)
*The Issue: Among other things, a lack of communication.
*The Pages:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EnsembleDarkhorse?action=diff&minor=y&more=Y 
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EnsembleDarkhorseDiscussion 
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JanitorDiscussion 
(last two have the same thread)

So my questions here are what did I do wrong and how can I get unbanned. I like this site and its laidback style compared to the stuffiness and legalese that turned me off to Wikipedia, I have launched articles and languishing YKTTWs and hundreds of solid, constructive edits, so to be permabanned for crossing the wrong person somehow is very troubling to me [bugs]. And that's aside from this being one of my favorite sites on the web, which I can no longer access without a proxy and many features (like forum topic making) are blocked off completely. I think that if she would just talk to me we could resolve whatever I did so very wrongly, but so far she has nearly nothing. What can I do? [sad]
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{{Triassicranger}}: Motion to block {{SignOfTheDead}} for repeated vandalism to the So Bad It's Horrible Horrible/{{Literature}} page.

{{lee4hmz}}: [[PleaseElaborate To give more information on this:]] He's not a KnownTroper; the last IP he used is 69.168.135.228. He's repeatedly adding works to the list that [[SquarePegRoundTrope belong more in]] SnarkBait than SoBadItsHorrible, such as ''{{Twilight}}'' and ''AtlasShrugged'', and getting pissy about it when people tell him they don't belong there.

{{Janitor}}: Seems like he's gone, now.
----

{{Civanfan}}: 147.133.216.230 just deleted the whole LetsPlay page, and the discussion as well, because he "doesn't get it."...Oh, wait. Now he's turned it into a plug for the only [=LPer=] he apparently likes.

{{Janitor}}: Woops. Forgot to mention. Block installed a couple of days ago.
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{{Rebochan}}: The person at IP 66.216.141.66 keeps vandalizing the discussion page on my user profile.
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{{Zadia}}: I've seen redlinks to these tropes in a number of places... was there ever a trope called 'Hammerhead Snark' or 'Badass One Liner' and if so, what happened to them?

{{Madrugada}}: HammerheadSnark was cut for being flamebaity, a natter magnet, and completely limited to real-life; it was "When an event in real life is snarked at like there's no tomorrow for a peroid of time surrounding it. Basically, the snark-age has hammered the event into the ground, ensuring that it will be remembered vividly for years to come. Marked by the excessive mention and parody of the event in nearly every form of news-able media (i.e. TV, radio, newspapers, webcomics and print comics...)"  

I can't find any trace of a trope called Badass one-liner, so my gues is that that's simply one that someone thinks should be a trope and is wiki-wording. 

Zadia: OK, thanks.
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{{Pro-Mole}}: Main/KirkSkywalker launched Main/GlassSlipper, but it's there waiting for someone to describe it. The YKTTW entry was apparently still ongoing when it was launched, so I'm not sure if it should be cut and put back on YKTTW or just start the article already.
----
MrDeath: I just noticed something when I checked the Related To page for ''SwordOfTruth''. Related To lists the page being linked to on [=~What Do You Mean He's Not Likeable?~=], even though that page no longer actually exists, and since then I've seen similar phenomena with other deleted pages. Is there any way to fix this?
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{{Civanfan}}: 203.86.5.93 just cut out huge portions of the SnarkBait page because: "Shit needs cleanup from Fan Haters. THIS IS NOT THE FUCKING PLACE TO BITCH ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU HATE SHIT AND NEEDS TO HAVE UNFUNNY NITPICKS THROWN AT IT." At least he gave a reason...of sorts.

{{lee4hmz}}: And I just checked and 208.53.138.21 has deleted a large chunk of the page ''again'' for being ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontLike (or so they say). Honestly, some of it is pretty whiny, but I don't follow that page so I'm not sure what to do next.
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LooneyToons:  We've got a potential vandal at 63.134.178.188.  Two of this person's four recorded edits are:  erasing an entire story recommendation from [[FanficRecs/{{Ptitlegynukzwikxmd}} FanficRecs: Ranma ½]] and
replacing the initial comment on a story rec on [[FanficRecs/TenchiMuyo FanficRecs: Tenchi Muyo]] with a chunk of unwarranted snark.
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{{Mullon}}: How do I create an Image Links page for a trope? Do I just go into the address bar, delete "Main", and type in "Image Links" and it creates the page?

{{Janitor}}: Yes, that's it.
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{{Civanfan}}: Someone at 70.134.85.37 has erased large chunks of the BreakTheHaughty page at least twice now.

LooneyToons:  Looks more like transmission glitches than deliberate vandalism, though.
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pkticker: I've looked at the various pages in Editing Help and can't find an answer for this question, so I'm posting it here. When adding a new example to a trope page, where should it go: at the bottom of the list of examples (or the category), at the top, or in alphabetical order?

MasoTey:  At the bottom of the list/category.

pkticker: Ahhh... Thanks!

{{Madrugada}}: ...Unless there's a note on the page that the examples are in a particular order, for example, on VoiceActors, they're alphabetical by last name; in {{Authors}}, they're divided chronologically in some sections, but not in others.

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MrDeath: Is there someone who can talk to Inkblot? He seems to have taken it upon himself to try and get rid of ''anything'' that doesn't fit his standards of scholarlship. He tried to erase ChekovsGun, and today he cutlisted EverythingsBetterWithSpinning and now the Haiku Wiki. He seems to have gotten it into his head that this should be as neutral and boring as Wikipedia, so can someone with some authority at least ask him to chill out?

He's getting to be like the Colonel from the Monty Python's Flying Circus. If anyone on the wiki is having fun, he pops in and declares, "Nope, this is too silly, it has to stop."
----
LeighSabio: This may seem [[HowDoIShotWeb How do I launched]] to DarthWiki, SugarWiki, etc.

{{Janitor}} Just launch it to the regular namespace, then move it to whatever namespace it should be in. 
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{{Jordan}}: There's been an ongoing flame war on TheFundamentalist page itself and on the Discussion page.
-Edit- Looking at the page again, it reminds me of a question I've had.  I've seen instances where people will delete part of a discussion page (in this case) or in other instances, portions of a Just Bugs Me page.  I wouldn't do that, assuming it is bad form, but I wondered if that was permissible behavior.

{{Janitor}}: millinniummany3k has been banned for deleting other people's comments.  The two big sins are page-blanking and deleting other's comments in discussion. Instant bans for either.

MrDeath: And now it's a back and forth going on with neither side willing to back down. It's just going to go on and on and on, especially since one participant seems to be gleefully disregarding any sort of reason or sense.
----
MrDeath: Why was ChekovsGun erased? It was a JustForFun page that people seemed to like, if the Discussion page is any indication. Inkblot, who erased it, says there's "consensus" that it should just be a redirect to ChekhovsGun. His justification is it's "not a trope and it adds nothing of value to the wiki", which describes most of the JustForFun section. There's no mention of the page on the Forums that I can find, and the [[{{ptitleurwof45r56eaDiscussion}} Discussion page]] doesn't contain any conversation at all about turning it into a redirect. Heck, the ChekovsGunDiscussion seems to have come to the opposite conclusion entirely. So where's the "consensus" to be found on an issue that doesn't appear to be discussed anywhere?

FastEddie: It's been restored.
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{{Jordan}}: I tried to add a Laconic Wiki page for ChurchMilitant and messed up in my editing.  Could someone help me fix that.  I'm not sure how to.

MasoTey:  Not sure what you're asking, since Laconic.ChurchMilitant shows no page (messed up or otherwise) and no history.  You could just go back and try again.
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FreezairForALimitedTime: What and how should we report if we notice someone making a lot if inflammatory/insulting Edit ''Reasons'' instead of regular-old Edits?

SatanicHamster: I think [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=v2fngfdmzvcq2pgh723hotok&page=1#6 this]] might give a clue.  I think that message might meant as a place to report such instances of gratuitous rudeness.  By the way, would you be talking about MightyKombat?

{{Cue}}: Looking at the edit reasons, might be Twentington. I mean, wow. Just F3 his name on the [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/recent_edit_reasons.php Recent Edit Reasons]] and...wow.

FreezairForALimitedTime: It was Twentington, but I didn't want to get into finger-pointing mode without an appropriate place to point fingers in a rational, collected way.
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{{Seanette}}: Is it really too much to ask those who are determined to hatchet out any hint of troper personality to please at least put the chopped-out material in TroperTales instead of just trashing it? If we're trying to go for an "encyclopedic" tone, wouldn't at least doing spelling/grammar checking be at least as important as cutting out any RealLife stories involving actual tropers, as if our real human experiences are anathema?

{{Kizor}}: I cut personal stories from articles all the time, and though I haven't seen the specific examples Seanette refers to, I'm with him. The TroperTales pages are there to get the stories out of the articles jovially. If it helps, I for one fix typos as well.

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pkticker: Why are some items in a watch list highlighted in orange?

{{Madrugada}}: Those are non-trope pages -- discussion and administrivia.

pkticker: Well, these don't have orange type. The black type is inside an orange box. Is that the same thing?

{{Madrugada}}: Hmm. That I can't answer -- I've never seen that. What items are they? That might help.

MasoTey:  Are they pages that haven't been edited in a while?  If so, I think the pale-orange box indicates that the most recent edit was a minor edit, back when we still had those.

pkticker: That looks like what it is... however, in my watch list they are listed as not being edited for a long time, but when I go to the pages themselves, according to the history they were edited in the past couple of days. A glitch?

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MasoTey:  Hypothetical situation[[hottip:*:based on a problem I've figured out, because the name's not ''exactly'' the same, but I'm wondering what I'd do if it were]].  There's a film (A) which has the same name as another film (B), though they are not otherwise connected.  A was adapted from another medium, so it already has pages in both the Main and Film namespaces.  Where would I put a page for B?

{{Madrugada}}: Not a definitive answer, but I'd move the source material for the adaptation movie into the correct namespace, change the name of movie A to "Movie A (year)" make Movie B's page as "Movie B (year)", and make the Main/ namespace into a disambiguation page that says something like "For the original book, go here. For the (year) movie based on the book, go here. For the (year) movie of the same name but unrelated to either of the others, go here."

{{Seanette}}: A similar question occurred to me. We already have a Series entry for the title "FlashForward", but it's a kids' show from the 1990s, and there's now a 2009 series, based on a novel of the same title (which the 1990s series is not). I'm willing to at least try to write an entry for the 2009 series, but can't figure out differentiating two series of the same title for WikiWord purposes. Do we even ''have'' disambiguation pages? (If we don't, we really should.)

{{Micah}}: We have [[{{Ultraviolet}} a]] [[{{Avatar}} few]]... more because someone just felt like doing it than because of anything resembling an attempt at consistency, probably.

{{Seanette}}: Many thanks to whomever added the FlashForward2009 page.
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PremiumIrritation: *sigh* Yet again, somebody has taken it upon themselves to witchunt the SurvivalOfTheFittest examples - at 69.242.64.95. I must honestly sound like a broken record by now.

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MrDeath: [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Lollipopfop Lollipopfop]] is editwarring on TheDresdenFiles. He's basically treating it as his blog, adding his own commentary to a bunch of tropes. Also, he's adamant about a GodModeSue entry, when the character in question doesn't remotely fit the definition.

Finally, on the discussion page, he appears to be trying some hamhanded SockPuppet BS, by editing the main page, putting something in the discussion, then putting ''another'' note in the discussion saying "I didn't write that, but I agree with it."

And he's made more edits now that basically amount to him complaining about a character he doesn't like. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And he's got bad grammar.]]

A couple hours on, and Lolli's downright ignoring the discussion, and not even giving reasons, just reverting her own edits back in. Pretty much just trolling out of spite at this point. Can we get a block?

FastEddie: Block installed.
----

pkticker: When I click on "new edits", I see that some of the items in the list have black bullets (dots) next to them, and some have red. What do the red dots mean?

PaulA: In theory, at least, black dots are recent edits that you know about already (they were on the page last time you looked, or you've visited that page since the edit was made), and red dots are new recent edits.

pkticker: Ohhh... that makes sense. Thanks!
----

{{Zadia}}: Occasionally when I try to edit a page it tells me that it was locked until X time by X troper. Could someone tell me why I can't edit it and how it all works? 

MaryLeathert: That means that someone else is editing the page. As not everyone writes their edits in couple of minutes the page is locked for a set amount when someone clicks the Edit Page button. Two (or more) people cannot edit the same page at the same time.

Zadia: Thanks.
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{{Zadia}}: I've been wondering this for a while... anyone else think there should be a link to AskTheTropers in the Troperville menu?

{{Seanette}}: Seems like a good idea to me.
----
{{Zadia}}: Woah, woah, wait a second. What happened to TheSuziQuatroPrinciple?

{{Madrugada}} It was cut, in part because it was very badly defined, and badly named, and in part because there were more aversions than actual examples, suggesting that it wasn't actually a trope. 

Zadia: Thanks.
----
{{Madrugada}}: Can we get a lockdown on AMillionIsAStatistic, or at least an admin ruling on the RealLife section? ''Major'' edit war going on...
----
{{Elle}}: Who thinks there ought to be frontpage or sidebar links to the quotes wiki, SugarWiki, DarthWiki, etc?  It frustrates the heck out of me cause searching "quotes wiki" doesn't bring it up on the first result page.  Just as annoying that quote pages and some others (IJBM, WildMassGuessing iirc) don't link back to their main articles like discussion pages do and vice versa.

ninjacrat: QuotesWiki and most other namespaces link back to the main page (and vice versa) via the icons at the top of the page. Quotes is a blue quote mark, main is a blue 'information' sign, etc.

{{Elle}}: There's icons?  [=*squints, blinks*=] Oh, those things under the search bar I "saw" but never noticed before.  Maybe they need design help to be clearer/more obvious?
----
SuperTroper: How do you add a new entry to an auto index e.g. adding a section for a trope/work onto the QuotesWiki?

{{Cassius335}}: Given it's called an "auto index", I assume you just make a page for the trope/work and the auto index will add the page to itself on it's next run-cycle. 

FreezairForALimitedTime: Just add the index markup to the bottom of the page. It auto-adds.

SuperTroper: Cheers.
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{{Seanette}}: Would whoever runs the automatic search-and-replace please run it for "commerical" (common typo of "commercial")? Thanks!

{{Citizen}}: Oh, so it isn't the British spelling? =P

{{Seanette}}: Also, "seperate" (twitching just typing that) and "seperately" (twitch twitch) could use attention.
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Guest: InducedHypochrondria needs to be deleted, and I can't find the Wiki-specific procedure to request deletion.  Currently, it's a blank page that used to be a mispelling redirect. 
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{{Kizor}}: Vandalism by a user named "gameguy" (208.181.60.33) and "gamedude" (96.48.137.64), I'm afraid. He seems pretty casual and uncoordinated. Prohibitive action or a talking-to?

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{{Cue}}: Somebody apparently tried to start a whole new category, EasternAnimation. It even has its own [[NightmareFuelEasternAnimation page of Nightmare Fuel.]] It has no indexes, no references anywhere on the wiki (I only found it through the random item button), and the pages need a LOT of work. Fix it? Delete it and merge with WesternAnimation? I dunno. I'm leaving its destiny in the hands of the Troper HiveMind.

FastEddie: It might take off. Probably a good idea to let it have some time, to see if it attracts any WikiMagic.

{{Cassius335}}: I thought {{Anime}} was already a page?

EDIT: Ah, I see.

PaulA: I'm seriously dubious about this category, as I would be about any attempt to group works by what they ''aren't''.
---- 
Sun Wukong:  New troper here.  How do I remove the "hide spoilers" effect off so I can view the entire page without having to highlight them?  It keeps saying "You can change this in your profile", but I haven't found anything saying "Edit Profile" or anything similar anywhere.  Please halp!

FastEddie: First, you'll want to [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/knowerForm.php get known]]. Then go to the forum and select "edit your forum profile".
----
LooneyToons:  Could someone who's seen the film take a look at the page for ''RaceToWitchMountain''?  Currently it's a list of tropes and what appears to be half of a plot summary.
----
{{HeartBurn Kid}}:  I'm becoming more and more convinced that contributor HeartBreak is just trolling the wrestling fans on this wiki.  I can forgive the differences of opinion, of course, but the aggressive deletion of information from pages (see Horrible/ProfessionalWrestling's history), coupled with the constant, ''constant'' misspellings, horrid grammar, and uses of RougeAnglesOfSatin is just making me suspicious.  Hell, he misspells his own handle on his contributor page!

FastEddie: Took a look at the [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=HeartBreak edit history]]. Whew! Being around this guy is just way too much work. Installing a block.

{{Heartbreak}} I am not a troll I am merely trying to add some balance to the wrestling section; you are a very negative person and seem to be going by either your own opinion or the opinion of smart marks which is the minority of fans. For instance according to you Hulk Hogan was TheWesly in 1994 and 1995 when he was still the top draw in wrestling which help WCW became the top company for the first time ever, how douse that make someone a Wesley. While you might accuse me of being too nice I am definitely not a troll and while my spelling and grammar might not be that great there are a lot of people just as bad on this very wiki. I will continue to correct problems with the wrestling entries and try to bring balance to this section of tvtropes
----
{{Pro-Mole}}: I just noticed we have no symbol for TearJerker. Any reason other than "we just forgot"?

No, wait a second, we ''do'' have! But... then why it doesn't show on that top namespaces bar on the Anime pages?
----
{{Kizor}}: I left a number of [=YKTTWs=] hanging in the spring and summer due to my chaotic situation at the time. I was planning to finish them up and launch them in the fall, but most are now gone, don't show up in launches and can't be found on the site via Google, and [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=pnpplrs0kk9zzhgitze92yvx another YKTTW]] from that general time period is blank. They have been lost irrevocably, haven't they?

FastEddie: Yup. YKTTW is not a good place to store things. 

{{Kizor}}: Clearly. I'll think of the tropes eventually, but what stings is the loss of a few dozen comments. That, and the two [=YKTTWs=] lost between noticing this and asking about it.

Oh well.

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{{Madrugada}}: Vandalism by Ree (24.186.149.24): blanking TroperTales pages for PaleSkinnedBrunette (restored), ThereAreNoGirlsOnTheInternet (restored), HeroicBSOD (restored), Plus a whole raft more that I'm going through now, plus, she deleted a huge chunk of the FinalFantasyVIIDiscussion page.

FastEddie: Block installed.
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{{Madrugada}}: Vandalism (bowdlerization) on DoubleEntendre and DoubleStandard by Gollygoshdarnscurvy (129.123.245.220) Already cleaned up on both pages.  

FastEddie: That's in.
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{{Madrugada}}: Requesting a ban on swenson 24.247.163.175. Vandalism on the ThrowItIn page by bowdlerizing examples. Probably "auto clean-up" by a nanny program, but still...

FastEddie: That's in.
----
 
{{rallyfan9000}}: Vandal detected, attacking multiple pages with racist remarks. User is ''Elonis'' at IP address ''97.81.226.195''. 

EDIT: [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Elonis Edit history for]] [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Elonis Elonis]].

{{Madrugada}}: Finished repairing Elonis's vandalism. A ban on him would be nice. Vandalism consisted of blanking pages, adding racist comments to pages, and chopping out entire example sections.

FastEddie: That's in.

----

{{Cassius335}}: Kinda hate to bring this up to [=AtT=] level, but I'm gonna need some help.

Someone changed the CatapultTurtleFlyingCastleGambit page to ScrewTheRulesIHavePlot, apparantly just because. [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=0x7e7m46oob7vte970sq3gmc&page=1#1 A forum thread]] was started to revert the name. So far, so fair enough.

Unfortunately, there seems to be some confusion, as certain forum posters seem to have fixated on the title and taken the trope to be "a character wins because the plot wants him to", which isn't what the trope page is supposed to be about; it's supposed to be, in essence, "a game is played in ways that make you wonder just what the fuck the rules are." (for the curious, the CanonicalListOfSubtleTropeDistinctions page has an entry explaining the diffrence between that page, {{Calvinball}} and GretzkyHasTheBall). I have tried and better tried to explain this, but I can't seem to get those posters to understand the difference; they keep parroting "a character wins because the plot wants him to" back at me.

Could someone with better verbal skills please explain things to them?

(later) [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1ys0mi8043crldaq8urkafdz&page=1 New forum thread]], partly as an attempt to get rid of me. I'd pick up the argument there too, but that gets into trolling territory. I however remain convinced these people don't understand the trope at ''all''; I keep getting a lot of bull testes about "The plot wants a character to win so it allows him to break the rules without reppercussions to do it"; some sort of strange mix of BoringInvincibleHero and KarmaHoudini.
----
{{Triassicranger}}: I'm sorry to have to ask this but can someone install an IP block for IP address 24.220.240.253 . Months ago he [[EditWar Edit Warred]] with myself and EtherealMutation over the American ''{{Godzilla}}'' film, where he kept adding it back onto the So Bad Its Horrible Film page even though we gave reasons time and again why it should not be there (namely there are those who watch it for SoBadItsGood value and those who enjoy it as a film in its own right, heck someone said something resembling the latter on the Film Gushing page), but still he kept adding it back in, refusing to take any heed of our correction. To that end, he even tried to justify his point by vandalising the So Bad Its Good Film page (by removing the American ''Godzilla'' movie's entry from there) and his post on the discussion page (where he calls himself {{BBOD}}) also shows he has learnt nothing. Now he has started doing it again, and is still not listening to reason. Which is why I am now asking for this IP block.

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LoserGamerBritt: Someone with the handle of {{paulmil}} with the IP 62.40.32.14 keeps [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=paulmil vandalizing]] the CompensatingForSomething page, and he doesn't seem to want to stop any time soon.

FastEddie: Looks like his connection keeps failing, rather than vandalism.

LoserGamerBritt: You sure? The same section of the page keeps getting deleted. If that's the case, then it's a BIG misunderstanding on my part. ._. I'm really sorry, random person with bad connection.

FastEddie: The mid-word drop is the clue. Of course, if he can't heal is connection, his problem becomes ours and we have to to take action. We'll monitor it.
----
{{Jake}}: Is it considered bad form to create new pages about one's own works of fiction? 

MasoTey:  [[TroperWorks It would appear not.]]
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{{Rebochan}}: Apparently I'm getting all the live ones.  The IP at 75.23.213.73 deleted massive sections of ItsPopularNowItSucks.  After I reverted most of the edits, he blanked the page and kept vandalizing it over and over in the history, finally leaving it with a version that demanded no examples be added.  No, this has not been proposed anywhere - said individual apparently decided this all by his lonesome.

FastEddie: Block installed.
----
{{Rebochan}}: The IP at 86.151.76.162 has been edit-warring on the FinalFantasyVII page over ShipToShipCombat.  Blessed shipping.  They insist that their view is the only correct one, but won't offer evidence or reasoned argument.  They have been outnumbered in the debate, so their only remaining tactic is to keep complaining about us being crazed shippers and then changing the page.
----
MasoTey:  Etiquette/hygiene question.  Links within folder headings (not sure if that's the correct term . . . the thing you click to open or close the folder) seem rather troublesome, since it's easy to accidentally click the link while attempting to open the folder.  In the case of media categories, they seem unnecessary too, since most of the media can be gotten to from the sidebar.  Is it okay to remove such links when I run across them?

FastEddie: Absolutely.
----
{{Mullon}}: How can I turn MostWonderfulSound and MostAnnoyingSound into part of SugarWiki and DarthWiki?

{{Citizen}}: I don't see any mention at all in their discussion pages about moving those pages.

{{Mullon}}: Once again someone has beaten me to it, so I guess it doesn't matter. Oddly enough they only moved MostWonderfulSound.

{{Madrugada}}: Possibly because I went through the examples on MostAnnoyingSound and chainsawed all the non-game ones and some of the game ones as well. Since the trope definition was "a sound in a game that you really hate to hear" there was no reason to have examples in other media.

{{Mullon}}: But I still don't get why it isn't in DarthWiki.
----
MrDeath: What happened to the page histories? Half the pages I checked (mostly JustBugsMe's and works pages), which used to show the history for a considerable amount of time, now only show up to about a month ago, or less.
----
YonTroper: How do I create avatars and signatures in the forums? I can't find the option to do that. 

FastEddie: There is an "edit your forum profile" button at the top of the forum display.  

----
{{Micah}}: Are all the pagetop links [[strike:to the forums]] broken for anyone else, or is it just me? 

FastEddie: Evidently, it is just you. What browser (and version) are you using?

{{Micah}}: It was happening in an oldish version of Camino, but now I can't reproduce the problem in that or any other browser. Just gremlins, I guess.
----
ThisTrohper: So I can now watch any movie or show I want, via [[http://www.vuze.com/app Vuze]]. Being a troper, and therefore hearing about it every five seconds, I'm planning to ArchiveBinge BuffyTheVampireSlayer for the first time. Question is, should I bother with the movie?

LooneyToons:  Your call.  It suffered massive ExecutiveMeddling, and strictly speaking, it's not precisely the same continuity as the TV series.  It's close enough, though, if you don't mind that most of Joss' typical dialogue was smashed flat by rewrites.  Compared to the series, though, it's a little bland.  On the other hand, Kristy Swanson is easy on the eyes, and it features one of Hilary Swank's first speaking roles.

MasoTey:  Speaking as possibly the only person on earth who has seen the movie and ''not'' the show:  the movie itself is just so-so, but if you run into a copy of its ''novelization'' ([[http://www.nika-summers.com/Library/novelbtvs.php this]]), read it.  Is good.
----
{{thatother1dude}}: Why does the ''trope'' article ScrewYourself have a reviews button?

FastEddie: Somebody marked it as a work. It's fixed now.
----
{{Mullon}}: So, is the old search function coming back or not?

{{Micah}}: The one that now shows up as "Title Search" under the Tools menu?

{{themedfoe}}: Maybe I'm just beating a dead horse, but I think the Title Search should be more prominent than the Google Search-- I've always found it more useful, so if one's gotta go from the main view, I think it should be the Google Search.

{{Madrugada}}: The Title search is the way that we were being attacked with all those [=DDoS=] Search Floods. The Google search doesn't open up that method of attack. The site search was moved to make it less exploitable.

{{Mullon}}: That's a shame. What's a [=DDoS=]?

PaulA: Distributed denial of service attack -- trying to mess up a web site by giving it more work than it can handle, by (for instance) setting up a bunch of bots to enter random title searches several million times a second.
----
Elle: I'm getting constant errors trying to upload a pic to forum profiles, no mater what.
--> Yikes, something went wrong!
--> Here is some diagnostic information:
--> Array ( [userfile] => Array ( [name] => ellechan.jpg [type] => [tmp_name] => [error] => 2 [size] => 0 ) )

Help?

FastEddie: File larger than the limit?

Elle: 30k file, 20k limit.  That's...small, but ok, I'll recompress it.  Clearer error message would be nice.
----

MrDeath: I don't get the point of the new redirect for CarFu, AnIsuzuWizardDidIt? It seems to refer to a car that's only available in Japan. I get it, it's a pun, but it seems unnecessary. Someone also went through the Film/DieHard and {{Terminator}} pages and replaced CarFu with AnIsuzuWizardDidIt (I've since reverted them). If the trope name were ''changed'' from CarFu to AnIsuzuWizardDidIt, that would be one thing, but I don't see the point in changing the listings to link to a page that just redirects to CarFu anyway (plus, I think CarFu is a ''much'' more intuitive name, considering the vast majority of people using the wiki have probably never heard of the Isuzu Wizard except via the note on the CarFu page). I may be wrong, but it seems to me that just one person looked it up, thought it would make a nice pun, and is now trying to shoehorn it in and make it look like a "common" usage.
----
Elle: What's the best way to go about this?  I want to make a page for the ElizabethMoon series ''Vatta's War''.  I've no idea how to give an article a ptitle if not launching it through YKTTW.  It's likely to be potholled a lot in cases where a trope example is naming a specific book in the series.  To make things even more fun the series has an alternate title, the ''Vattan Saga'' in the UK and so will need at least one redirect.  As I was going through search wikilinking references to locate them easily later I did most of them as [= [[VattasWar Vatta's War]] =] but searching on the subject of ptitles led me to believe taht might not be correct.

FastEddie: VattasWar should be given a redirect to [=~Vatta's War~=], as should the alternative title VattanSaga. Just click on those redlinks, and you should be set up. 
----
{{Pro-Mole}}: Earlier today I experienced the third "Database hates you" error this week, and not in one page only. Is there anything happening to the server?

FreezairForALimitedTime: Unless something ELSE has happened that I don't know about, we've been Farked by [[http://xkcd.com XKCD.]]

{{Citizen}}: For clarification, [[http://xkcd.com/609/ the comic in question.]]
----
LooneyToons:  The [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/Essential/Anime?open=all#1yzgkxw6 Essential Anime Voting Page]] has two entries for ''TheMelancholyOfHaruhiSuzumiya''.  How do we merge them?
----
PaulA: What, actually, is the difference between the just-launched {{Wingdinglish}} and the existing {{Cypher Language}}?

{{Earnest}}: At a glance, CypherLanguage is just letter substitution, so a form of BilingualBonus.  {{Wingdinglish}} ''can'' be a cypher, but is usually just pure jibberish, like SpeakingSimlish. EDIT: Reading more closely, there is very little difference, especially considering they have examples bleeding into both. I had seen CypherLanguage in reference to the Al Bhed, a group of ''FinalFantasyX'' people who used English letters but cyphered, and assumed that the trope dealt exclusively with standard alphabets. Likewise Wingdinglish being just weird symbols. But apparently the tropes could do with a good clean up or merge. I suggest you take this to the [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/conversations.php?topic=renames Trope Repair Forum.]] 
----
{{Pro-Mole}}: where's the index for the DanBrowned namespace? I found DanBrowned/DanBrown but can't find anything else on the same space now...

{{Madrugada}} There shouldn't be a DanBrowned Namespace. The DanBrown page should be in Main/.  I've moved it there and cutlisted the bad namespace.
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{{Occono}}: Somebody deleted my following WallBanger example from the {{Pokemon}} and WallBanger pages:
"* In {{Pokemon}} the Pokemon Cemetery from Red and Blue was converted into a Radio Tower in Gold and Silver. [[SarcasmMode How respectful]]."

The troper's response when I asked why, and then my response:

"Pk Mario: No, it's not incredibly unbelievable.
First, the radio tower was a haunted building full of ghost Pokemon and possesed channelers, it was a great step up for Lavender city to remodel it and make it an actually useful place.
Second, IIRC they opened another place next to the tower where there were people mourning their actual Pokemon, so it's not like they just forgot about that.
Third, it has been years since G/S came out and nobody had ever complained about that, so like hell it's a Wall Banger just because some dumb Fridge Logic hit you over 2 generations later.
And finally, there are a lot more Pokemon Wall bangers listed in there, but you completely missed them and put your example out of order at the very end.

Occono: The other Pokemon examples were about the spinoff games so I figured the real games needed their own section. The building may have been haunted but I remember it being a grave. If I was wrong, sorry. And people DID complain about it back when, I remember seeing it complained about, maybe not that much."

{{Occono}}: Is s/he right? I disagree but I don't want to put it back and start an EditWar.

{{Pro-Mole}}: I think so, that's more FridgeLogic than WallBanger. Also, there are original games' {{WallBanger}}s already(together with the ''Pokemon Ranch'' example).

{{Occono}}:Alright, thanks.
----

{{Madrugada}}: Vandal at 79.71.191.10 is turning the EasyBreather page into one huge bile-filled TakeThat at the work. ''And'' explicitly claiming to speak for the Wiki as a whole.

{{lee4hmz}}: Only one other edit, last I checked (on {{Fallout}}) and hasn't vandalized any other pages. Looks like more {{Hatedom}} to me.

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{{Gaunt88}}: Do scenes like 1) Tony Stark having the IronMan armour assembled around him in the 2008 film and 2) the similar scene with the Terran marine from the StarCraft 2 announcment trailer count as a TransformationSequence or a LockAndLoadMontage? They seem have elements of both.

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Zadia: Can someone tell me where the Wiki Markup page is? I can't find it and the redirects I've added don't appear as 
alternate titles on the pages.

PaulA: Alternate titles don't appear immediately, so if your redirects actually work it's probably just that the site hasn't gotten around to adding them yet. In any case, the wiki markup page is TextFormattingRules; there's a link to it in the sidebar under "Editing".

Zadia: Thank you.
----
cg12345: Somebody actually wrote an article for NukingTheFridge. It's only a couple of short paragraphs, and it does try to justify itself, but it's got no examples, and to be honest, it still comes across as something of a excuse to make indirect jabs at the last IndianaJones movie. You might want to have a look at it to see if it's something worth developing, or if it should be [[KillItWithFire cut]] (I'm leaning toward the latter, myself).

Kaybor: That phrase should just be a redirect of RuinedFOREVER.

cg12345: That's what I figured. So should I deal with it (as soon as I learn how to redirect)?

cg12345: Never mind, somebody nuked the page (hur hur hurr) and set it back up as a redirect to RuinedFOREVER. Thank CrystalDragonJesus.
----
PremiumIrritation: [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=98.201.34.220 Somebody]] is still taking [=SOTF=] examples out for no good reason, having previously vandalised the work's page previously, as I noted below. It's becoming incredibly annoying to restore these wicks just because there's somebody with a chip on their shoulder out there.

{{Janitor}}: Block installed.
----
{{Servbot}}: Troper by name of {{punhaver}} turned PinkGirlBlueBoy into a redirect of RedOniBlueOni with no discussion despite the fact that they're different tropes. Can't revert beck. Need help. Same troper is threatening to do the same with [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomboyAndGirlyGirl?action=diff TomboyAndGirlyGirl]] on his first edit.

MetaFour: I reverted it. For future reference, to revert a redirecting, click on the text in the upper left corner that says "redirected from Blah Blah", and that will take you to the edit box for the redirected page. Cut out the redirect markup and save the page. Then go to the Page History, copy the markup from before the redirect was added, click Edit and paste that text in.
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{{Pro-Mole}}: So, why did the search go completely offline now?

{{Madrugada}} Another attack via the site text-search.
----
SatanicHamster: I've tried to cut this page: WMG/LordOfTheRings.  It refuses to be cut.  Has this page ''somehow'' gained immorality?  I want it cut for a few reasons.  The proper name for that work is ''The Lord Of The Rings'' and were several satellite pages spread out between ''The Lord Of The Rings'' and ''Lord Of The Rings' pages''.  I copied and pasted those pages to ''The Lord Of The Rings'' to make surfing around those pages a bit easier.

{{Janitor}}: It's a useful redirect for people who are less sensitive about using the exact title. Right on the border of fussiness, to ''insist'' on the 'The'.

SatanicHamster: I think I should've been a bit more specific.  I'm advocating cutting, [=WMG/LordOfTheRings=] not LordOfTheRings.  I'm bit of a neat freak at times.

LooneyToons:  Okay, that's weird.  I zapped that yesterday at lunchtime.  It's still there?

{{Madrugada}} Look at the page your first link delivers you to, SatanicHamster: it's been made into a redirect to WMG/TheLordOfTheRings..

SatanicHamster: Uh, I know that.  What I don't understand, I requested [=SugerWiki/LordOFTheRings=] and [=JustBugsMe/LordOfTheRings=] to be cut and they got cut.  However, [=WMG/LordOfTheRings=] just doesn't get cut.  Those cut pages I mentioned did have redirects at one time.  I do not understand why this is so.  If it's some obscure policy concerning that, I would love to read a detailed explanation.

For me, it's just to reduce the amount of hits with the search.  I actually didn't know there were other satellite pages for The Lord Of The Rings until I looked closely at search page.  I know BabylonFive has a similar problem.
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{{Rogue 7}}: How does one go about putting up a review for a work that doesn't have a link to the "Reviews" bit in the top bar?  Because I want to do one for TheCuriousCaseOfBenjaminButton and I don't see that option.

{{Janitor}} Edited the article (you have to change something; add a space or something) and use the "This article describes:" thing to set it a "a work". The reviews link will show up after you save.
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FreezairForALimitedTime: There seems to be a bit of an EditWar going on over the SpyroTheDragon page between someone named BetaRay and a couple others. He deleted the AwardBaitSong example a couple times (though seems to have stopped) and now seems to be fighting over {{Synthesizerizitis}} (though it ''can'' be objectively said that original games relied heavily on synth music), and attempting to be a fandom mouthpiece. Any word on what to do?
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JackButler:  What is the official stance on an editor injecting his own political views into a politically charged trope page?  User 69.47.217.100, who apparently calls himself ChuckG according to what he left on the discussion page, has insisted on promoting his own political views on YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters, an article I tried to make as apolitical as possible for such a thing when I launched it.

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{{Pro-Mole}}: I can't help bu wonder: why none of the other index pages are auto-indexable like Trivia? That'd be lots of practical...

{{Micah}}: It's not quite the only one: TroperTales, LaconicWiki, and QuotesWiki work that way too. I think it happens on all the indices that span entire namespaces and were created sufficiently recently (I seem to recall auto-index code being created specifically to deal with the ballooning TroperTales index).

{{Pro-Mole}}: So, what are the odds of we having a total revamp on WMG and JustBugsMe for some quick indexing? I've seen poor orphaned pages around that deserved a place there...
----
CrypticMirror: What is the cut off date on OlderThanRadio, the discussion page gives 1888 but many page examples are younger?  TheOtherWiki gives the first "As we know it" [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio broadcast being 1906]], should we be using that?  It'd help to have a firm date on that page.  Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I wasn't sure where to put it.  The Laconic entry gives WW1, but that seems a bit late.

{{Micah}}: WW1 is actually pretty good if you're talking about radio as [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radio#Audio_broadcasting_.281919_to_1950s.29 a standard broadcast medium]], rather than as a technology, and it's a convenient dividing line historically. 

{{Madrugada}}: I would agree with Micah. Up to WWI, radio was technologically possible, but wasn't really a public medium.

CrypticMirror: If we are going for WW1 as the cut off then it needs added to the trope page and a clean up on OlderThanRadio and OlderThanTV as some stuff on the latter would be moved to the former.  Do we have a consensus to do that?

{{Madrugada}}: I'm good with that.
----
FreezairForALimitedTime: OK, I've wondered this for a while now. Why do some usernames, or collections of letters and numbers that are probably not IP addresses, sometimes show up in orange the way IP addresses do whenever an UnknownTroper makes an edit?
----
Lizzie:How do you upload an image?

FreezairForALimitedTime: "Tools -> Image Uploader" on the sidebar.
----
LooneyToons:  Does anyone else have a problem with Grognor 76.3.185.225's jihad against "This Troper"?  I've noticed that he's not often bothering to rewrite examples with the offending words, instead deleting them outright.

FreezairForALimitedTime: Me too, if it counts for anthing.

NateTheGreat:  I can understand being against the usage of ThisTroper as a substitute for a name, but if he's removing entire examples just because he's ticked; he's a jerk.  Is substituting "one troper" really so much work?
----
WillyFourEyes: WikiVandal spotted at 81.83.216.179. Offense: blanking the [=~Let's Play~=] page and replacing it with "this page sucks". Motion to terminate?

LooneyToons: Seconded.
----
NeoChaos: Brought this up [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=0fou6oh8q0gh7r8zvdb0p9jt&page=3#73 in the forum]], but I was suggested to note it in here as well. An anon user at 69.231.195.7 removed all the spoiler tags from TheForceUnleashed, under the edit summary "Spoiler tag genocide". While I understand there's a debate on whether or not spoiler tags should be used, this guy removed them all without any discussion whatsoever. {{lee4hmz}} has noted that a user from the same IP range and general geographic area (Irvine, California) has been doing some "random stuff" (in lee's words, not mine) to the wiki, so I'm leaving this here as something of a heads-up.

{{Madrugada}}: Oh, 69.231.195.7 ''definitely''. needs to be dealt with. He's also sripped the spoiler tags out of the FalloutDiscussion page, {{Fallout}} itself, NeonGenesisEvangelion, and {{inFamous}}. And he's only been editing for one day. Clearly on a spoiler-jihad.

{{Janitor}}: Block installed.
----

PremiumIrritation: Somebody apparently took it upon themselves to make some rather petty edits to the SurvivalOfTheFittest page. [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SurvivalOfTheFittest?action=diff Here]]. They reworded the article to insult the [=RP=] and removed the links to it. I reverted them, but I wanted to give a heads up of sorts in case something similar happens again, epsecially because before this happened, somebody with at least a partially matching ip (I didn't have acces to the entire thing) trolled the site's chatroom. 

{{lee4hmz}}: The IP in question is 98.201.34.220, by the way.

PremiumIrritation: Yeah, the person at said IP has been going sporadically removing examples, and also seems to be adding some irrelevant natter to a couple of other articles too. Anyway, they've definitely been taking some out, including trying to delete (they just wiped it) SotF's WMG page. 

----

{{Mullon}}: I don't know why, but sometimes when I'm typing in the editing box, it scrolls down so what I'm typing is at the very bottom. Any ideas why?
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FreezairForALimitedTime: ...OK, what? Some BluenoseBowdlerizer went through the TroperTales/PerverseSexualLustVideoGames and changed about half the examples, including creating nonsense redlinks like "MemeticParagon." [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=24.247.84.96 The edit history in question.]]

{{Citizen}}: Again, a "revert" feature of some sort would be ''really'' handy for cases like these... The current six affected pages are fixed now.

{{Madrugada}}: The vandal in question is at 24.247.84.96. His edit history consists solely of bowdlerizations; a ban would be in order, in my opinion.

{{Citizen}}: Not ''solely'' of bowdlerizations.  They did make two or three additions of their own, though nothing of note.  Substituting "paragon" for "badass" is a new one on me.

{{Janitor}}: Anyway, not a useful contributor. Block installed.

{{Citizen}}: Do blocks prevent viewing the site or just editing?

{{Janitor}}: They prevent viewing. The blocked person gets a 403 - Forbidden message.

LooneyToons:  I just want to remind folks that sometimes bowdlerization can happen unintentionally, when someone is behind a filtering system.  In that case the software bowdlerizes the page when it's opened for edit.  We've seen this happen at least once that I know of.  Doesn't mean that we shouldn't block the IP, just that not every bowdlerization is intentional (at least on the part of the user).

{{Madrugada}}: True, but it's vandalism all the same, even if it's unintentional vandalism. 
---- 
{{Zadia}}: How do alternate titles work?

FreezairForALimitedTime: Alternate titles are redirects. If you make a redirect for a page (by using the redirect markup available on the "Wiki Markup" page), then in about an hour or so, the maitinence widget that adds alternate titles to pages will come along and auto-add it.

{{Zadia}}: Thank you.
----
{{Mullon}}: I asked this before, but would it be wrong to overwrite everything in HeyItsThatVoice and replace it with one giant list of everybody by their last names?

{{Madrugada}}. I'd suggest keeping it separated by media and in folders, rather than lumping it all together; but separating it by voice actor's name is fine. 

{{Mullon}}: But that leads to redundancy. I was hoping amking one giant list would avoid having the same people emntioned over and over again. Roy Campbell has been mentioned so many times...

{{Madrugada}}: Hmmm... There is that. Put everyone's entries together under their name but separate out the names by the predominant medium? There are only a few who really cross over into several media as far as I could see, but there are a lot of entries that mention the character's name but not the voice actor's, so there may be far more than I think.  How about separating out those who really only work in one medium by medium?

{{Mullon}}: I don't know...certainly it would work for the {{Anime}} section and some of the older WesternAnimation folks. But it would tear apart the {{Videogame}} section. And then there would be fights about what someone is more well known for and there would still be redundancies. I still don't really see what is wrongwith one giant list. Sure it would be different, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The only thing I feel bad about was that I had to cut out all the times someone listed a show instead of a specific person and didn't give much detail. I wonder if this is something that the forum would be helpful with, or maybe I should listen to the policy of TheOtherWiki and Be Bold.

{{Madrugada}}: Be Bold, and do it the way you think will work the best. I'm not a gamer, so I tend to not be terribly conscious of the Games Sections. And don't feel bad about cutting incorrect or useless examples. If the trope is about people and all that's listed is a show, don't worry, just cut it.
----
{{Enlong}}: What's going on with the newly-formed {{Trivia}} section? It's an interesting concept, but precious few of the pages discuss actual trivia, while the rest seem to have been used as a dumping ground for examples from the recently blanked [=IAmNotMakingThsUp=] pages, utterly devoid of context. What gives? It seems like a massive cleanup of the section is in order.

{{Pro-Mole}}: seconded. I didn't understand what {{Trivia}} was supposed to be about...
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FreezairForALimitedTime: Someone keeps going around and trying to change pages that have been redirected to their "original" forms. They tried to change {{Moe}} back to MoeMoe (which isn't the proper term) and someone else (possibly unrelated) keeps trying to restore the merged PapaWolf page, which became part of MamaBear.

{{lee4hmz}}: 71.165.122.216 was the one responsible for the vandalism on {{Moe}}; looks like he/she/it also [[strike:tried to]] '''did''' relaunch TheKhan as well, and I went ahead and reverted the changes. As for PapaWolf, it looks like it was confusion about the redirect from a couple of people, and I'm not sure any malice was intended.

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{{Starscream}}: What the ''hell'' is with the sudden rush of pages being deleted? Is someone trying to turn us into Wikipedia-lite or something?

ninjacrat: [[TVTropesWikiDrinkingGame Everybody drink!]]

Starscream: Haha. I want a serious answer.

{{Rissa}}: Which pages?
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EtherealMutation: A user at [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=74.76.189.55 74.76.189.55]] is deleting every example involving ''ProtectorsOfThePlotContinuum'' due to some claim of "not accepting new members" (not a valid reason; this is a long running fiction series and we can't just let anybody proclaim their work "off-limits").  One of the administrators of the PPC, [=JulyFlame=], has mentioned that this user is acting on their own accord and has called for a ban.  [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=w7b9ndng55th3uk4qdo232y7&page=1#4 More in this thread]].

{{Janitor}}: IP block installed.
----
{{Gemmifer}}: Does anyone have an explanation for this: I uploaded the Spiegelman strip as a picture for ToughActToFollow. The picture shows up much smaller than the one on my computer. Why could that be? I would try again, but I think the same would happen and I don't want to clutter.

{{Janitor}}: All images are restricted by the system to 350px width if they appear on a wiki page. A link to the image you uploaded will be full size. Perhaps the point you wish to illustrate can be serviced in that way. 

{{Gemmifer}}: Alright, I cut out the first panel. Thanks!
----
{{Rothul}}: Slight issue with search engine, don't know if it's a one thing or maybe a symptom of a larger issue: 

Searching for '30 Rock' (no quotes), brings up no results. However, when you search for 'Rock' (no quotes), 30 Rock (as written, but punctuated title) is the first link shown.

{{Pro-Mole}}: pmWiki's article titles cannot start with a number, unless it's a punctuated title. You should be looking for 'ThirtyRock'.
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{{Micah}}: So, I'm trying to categorize my watchlist using the new drop-down thingy, and there's some pages I don't know what to do with:
* Anything from the FanficRecs namespace
* DoctorWhoNewSeriesTropes
Thoughts?
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CleverPun: How do you add the alt titles box to the top of a page? I know how to make a redirect to a page, but this doesn't seem to be anywhere else.

{{Janitor}}: It happens automatically. A thing runs once an hour that adds the new ones. 
----
{{Rothul}}: Incredibly minor issue, but could someone with access edit the HomePage to add the four dash line ("- - - -") above the index box? Having a line there seems to be the aesthetic standard for most other pages.
----
{{Rebochan}}: We're having trouble with the anon at IP 67.159.41.120 blanking the FallenCreator page and discussion, plus constantly removing the Sonic entry.

{{lee4hmz}}: And now he's put in bad-faith cut requests on both FallenCreator and PolygonCeiling. I sense that some Sonic FanDumb s to blame here.

{{Janitor}}: Block installed.

FreezairForALimitedTime: Aaaand s/he's at it again with a new IP.

{{Janitor}}: Please specify IP address and specific page.  

{{Komodin}}: This time, it's 67.159.5.76. S/he/it cutlisted Ruined FOREVER. His/Her/Its "justification" is that, and I quote, "Thos trope sucks." 

{{Janitor}}: Thanks. Block installed. There actually are issues to examine here. Page-blanking is an automatic ban, of course.

EtherealMutation: Again at 66.90.104.63.  FallenCreator.

{{Janitor}}: Block installed.

{{lee4hmz}}: If anything, he's persistent. All those IPs are owned by fdcservers.net; I think it may be time to get their abuse department involved, since this makes it three times and he's also been threatening people (however shallow, it's not something I'd tolerate).

FreezairForALimitedTime: I can't tell if s/he's serious or a troll. (Well, s/he's obviously a troll, but I meant an intentional one.) Their insults are [[RefugeInAudacity so friggin' ridiculous]] that they're impossible to take in serious malice.

{{lee4hmz}}: The language is almost like /b/tard-speak, and the pages in question all have some mention of the later Sonic games on them, so my mental image is of a tweenage InsufferableGenius that hasn't learned the meaning of tolerance quite yet. SoYeah, I'm probably overreacting a bit, but just knowing that Trolly-kun probably got grounded for a week would be fine by me. :D

{{Komodin}}: "Somdosk" returned? Oh dear, what did s/he/it do this time?

{{lee4hmz}}: Same thing as usual; blanking FallenCreator (and cutlisting it ''again'', I've noticed), blanking the discussion page, and saying things like "I'LL KILL YOU FAGGOTS" and "STOP REVERTING ME OR ELSE" when people revert his edits.

{{Komodin}}: After looking over the latest edits for FallenCreator, I'm left utterly confused and appalled. Why did s/he/it target me and {{Rebochan}} for his childish mini-tirades?

{{Komodin}}: Oh dear. Somdosk's back again...

{{lee4hmz}}: And from an entirely different ISP this time, which means those are ''all'' open proxies -- something we're going to have to check for in the future, it looks like.

{{Janitor}}: Block installed. Saves a step if you note the IP Address here. Lee, how do you spot an open proxy?

{{lee4hmz}}: I don't know all the details off the top of my head; it used to be that proxies hung out on port 8080 but other proxies may use different ports. I had a suspicion that the fdcservers.net [=IPs=] were possible open proxies after scanning them with nmap, and seeing a bunch of Windows services running (they ''did'' filter port 139, at least).

{{Janitor}}: Not much to automate there. It seem like these nuisance people always have a selection of IP addresses to use. Wondering how they collect those.
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TParadox: How do I start a new Crowner? I want to do a Page Action crowner for DistaffCounterpart, since it's been suggested that it should have a more gender neutral title. (I previously [[BlueShifting Blue Shifted]] the SpearCounterpart link into a redirect to it, but that doesn't seem enough).

FastEddie: Click a crowmer of the type you want ([[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/PageAction/BatmanAndRobin here's one]]). Change the bit on the end to DistaffCounterpart, then off you go.

TParadox: Thanks. Done.
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MorganWick: Idea: Have a link to TVTropesForum on the forum's front page. Would be useful for newbies to know what each forum is for.

FastEddie: That's in.
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{{Mullon}}: Idea: Have a link to those polls where the title gets changed appear on the page that's getting it's title changed. Like, if you want change the title for a trope, you type the trope into a box and an icon appears on that page.
** TParadox: similar idea: Have a link to the page the Crowner is about automatically. I've seen some with links for analysis, but not many.
----
{{Enlong}}: Why is it that instances of  show up as if they were redlinks?

FastEddie: See [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=goiy1uz4hgsaxaqnt7c8o9bc&page=1 this thread]]. 

{{Enlong}}: OK, now the entire page has been blanked, and what was once there has been copypasted into Trivia, where it seems very out of place.
----
{{Starscream}}: What happened to the "search for term in the body of an article" part of the search function? I refuse to use the Google search for my own reasons, and besides, the wiki's custom one is a lot more precise. If it's gone permanently, I am not going to be a happy troper.

{{Madrugada}}: Some (deleted) has been attempting a DDoS using full-text site-search flooding (to the tune of 10 to 15 ''Thousand'' search requests per second). The full search has been disabled until Fast Eddie comes up with a solution. See [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=vy90e4lmuf0lp7a9e1bebfzv&page=1#17 this thread in the forums for details]]
----
{{Pro-Mole}}: Anyway to indicate that a launched page is a redirect to another in the "New Edits" view? I'm tired of clicking those interesting titles only to find out they're just redirects to older tropes I've already seen(and hasn't changed much since).
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FreezairForALimitedTime: [[NonSequiturThud Did somebody get the liscence plate number of that truck?]][[hottip:*:English translation--Why all the downtime?]]

FastEddie: Under investigation. Not a very satisfying answer, but the best we've got right now. UPDATE: Someone is running a script that is hammering the search utility with 10's of 1000's of search requests per second. Search will be down until we find all the IP addresses they are operating from and block them.

FreezairForALimitedTime: A D.o.S. attack, or just someone being an incredible douche?

{{Mullon}}: Oh God, I've been wandering around here for days looking for someone else. Just going from link to link looking for some signs of life.
----
TParadox: So I got tired of being a redlink, and made myself a contributor's page. But even though I put myself on the Contributors' Pages index page, the bottom of my page still shows that I'm unplaced. Did I do something wrong, or does it take the server a while on this?
* NM, it's working now.

----

{{Seanette}}: Again, does WhyDidItHaveToBeSnakes really ''need'' a page image? I know I'm not the only severe ophidiophobe around, and would appreciate at least some warning about pages that are going to be too scary to use in normal view mode.

{{Madrugada}}: I removed it, again, and added yet another request that no image be put on that page. I'm afraid, Seanette, that you're up against people who really have no idea what a phobia feels like. I've added it to my watchlist, so hopefully, I'll catch any more images before our phobics do.

{{Seanette}}: I do appreciate it, {{Madrugada}} (and thanks also to {{Micah}} for pitching in on this one). I'm sure other ophidiophobes on the site do, too.

FreezairForALimitedTime: What happened to that "folder the image" thing? 

LooneyToons:  (rolls eyes)  Oooh, I share Nikola Tesla's phobia of human hair.  I demand every picture of someone who isn't bald be removed from the wiki so that I am not inadvertently frightened.  Sorry, I'm ''not'' sympathetic.  If you have a snake phobia, why are you going to a page about snakes?  

{{Rebochan}}: Seriously.  Why should the page be altered for a handful of people?  There's things I have fears of (though not clinical phobias).  I avoid them.  I don't always succeed, but I don't get upset if I clicked a page with that in the title.  That page should be allowed to have an image.

{{Seanette}}: There is useful information on the page (which is [=NOT=] exclusively about snakes. Looney, just has an overly-specific title), but you'd ban several tropers from going there just so you can have your picture? How kind and thoughtful of you. Remind me to find something ''you're'' afraid of and shove it in your face and then show no human compassion about the matter. After all, allowing for another human being's weaknesses is just ''so'' unreasonable.

{{Rebochan}}: We're not shoving anything in your face.  Did I send you an e-mail of disguised snake photos?  No.  I don't see the point of stripping a trope page about phobias of an actual image of relevance just because some people have a phobia.  At the very least, I see no reason why it can't be foldered instead of things like obscuring the link or even hiding access to it.  An actual clinical phobia, in other words, a mental illness that directly impacts quality of life, is not an extremely common phenomenon.  Accusing people of having no compassion for pointing that out is childish.

FastEddie: Chill. We just don't need images that much -- squicky or otherwise. Not worth a fuss.

----
{{Earnest}}: Interesting. The QuotesWiki markup for [[Quotes/{{Ptitle7xno8ayw}} Didn't See That Coming]] has it as the "first" trope, right before Quotes/ADateWithRosiePalms, and it doesn't appear on QuotesWiki at all. I'm guessing the ptitle is throwing it off.

----
{{Goliathus}}: I'm a bit chuffed, or a bit confused. It seems that the initial titles ([=MGS2=]/3/4, MGS) have been cut, creating over a hundred redlinks in their wake... But I can't access the discussion about the cuts. It just seems to have vanished. I don't even recall their being any support aside from the nominator, but it was only Madrugada and I when I last saw. Also, I can't find the policy where "Initialism" is described as bad form. So, was there a huge discussion and opinion swayed? And if so, where? Is it lost forever?

{{Micah}}: For policy, see [[WelcomeToTVTropes here]] (under "adding redirects"), [[HowToWriteAnExample here]] (near the bottom--"don't use acronyms for show titles"), and [[CreatingNewRedirects here]].
----
{{Rissa}}: Is there a correct way to do potholes in folder titles? The one for 'Ash's Father' on WMG/GrandUnifyingGuesses is messed up, it looks similar to how the AC: folder titles would mess up the Close button.

FastEddie: There shouldn't be a link of any sort in a folder label. I removed that one.
----
{{CanvasWolfDoll}} is it considered in bad taste to make a page for one's own webcomic?

FastEddie: Nope. Writing up a work and listing the tropes used by it are what we're for. Remember, though, it's a description, not a review. Editable by anyone.
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{{Pro-Mole}}: Is there a way to find the red links for a CutList entry? I'm trying to find the ones for {{RetCon}}ned to fix them alreadt, but a search for "retconned" finds all the references to the term, not only the links.

{{Rissa}}: [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Main/RetConned http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Main/RetConned]]

Or in other words, hit Related Pages on any page, then change the URL to the page you want.
----
{{Rebochan}}: The BatmanAndRobin EditWar just.  Never.  Ends.  *bangs head into wall* If the movie isn't that big a deal, ''why is this one person so focused on reverting the article over and over?''  And then repeatedly [[BatmanAndRobinDiscussion by her own admission]] refusing to ever stop?

{{Madrugada}} An edit war ''does'' take two. You aren't entirely innocent, either.

{{fleb}}: Hey I'll admit I wasn't exactly 'innocent' either, but Rebochan and I both at least ''tried'' to work out the disagreement by talking with EM, like wiki-editors are presumably supposed to do, and instead of getting the same courtesy we were repeatedly ignored. It was...[[WallBanger frustrating]]. (Hopefully it's all [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=tk506uhl085yaa95wm2h3xum&page=3 moot now.]])
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{{Micah}}: At the moment, the wiki doesn't let you write reviews of things from the "works not in nice indexes" section of the {{Works}} page. Is this likely to change? If not, that section should probably be split off into its own index so people have somewhere to review theater/game systems/ccgs/etc.
----
{{Kizor}}: Okay, we have a problem. There's an article of a webcomic, DominicDeegan. The comic has an immense BrokenBase and a large {{Hatedom}}, but the article has been getting along without much of a hassle. For instance, the description links to a strip and gives both its intended interpretation (cartoon slapstick violence) and its creative misinterpretation (serial murder) to illustrate the difference in viewpoints. Admittedly, my work.

That was until today, when ULALA ( 70.255.207.18 ) zapped all the tropes critical of the comic and cut off the description at the part where it mentioned criticism, removed the hatedom fanon "caste system" from the characters page and straightforwardly vandalized the It Just Bugs Me page by replacing it with "hurrdurr this comic sucks, I'm going to write thirty pages of fanfiction snarking on it (I say snark because british ppl do and british ppl are soooo cool!)". Selior then restored the lost material in the main article. I'm going to fix the rest.

ULALA had previously vandalized ProtectorsOfThePlotContinuum to insult the authours of that SharedUniverse. These are his only contributions.

FastEddie: Block installed.

{{Kizor}}: Thank you. Unfortunately 70.216.105.58 is now at it with the edit reason "[[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DominicDeegan?action=diff reverting faggotry]]".

FastEddie: Block installed.

{{Rebochan}}: And again at 70.218.3.206.  They must be using a proxy.

FastEddie: Blocked that one, too. Two proxies, in fact. Being an asshole is sort of a full time job for this guy.

Selior: more offending IPs: 70.218.9.96. The article was vandalized severely, complete with offences to some guy named Oracle_Hunter. Basically it was replaced with first picture over and over again. Katsuhagi restored it but not fully, I put the rest back. 

{{Kizor}}: 70.218.27.96, 70.218.39.224. Oracle_Hunter is a mastermind behind the Giant in the Playground forum's massive  hatedom threads. Funnily enough, he initially wrote the article.

{{lee4hmz}}: For what it's worth, the majority of those IPs are registered to Verizon Wireless. Either someone has an EVDO modem or a really spiffy phone...

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{{Inkblot}}: I moved this here from ItJustBugsMe:

[[WMG:The fact that Complaining About Shows You Don't Like (along with the discussion page) was removed bugs me.]]
** The page was removed for obvious reasons: it was turning into a vortex of rage, rambling and ranting. I'm sorry, I like alliteration... Nonetheless, it started to get annoying and so someone decided to get rid of it.[[DarthWiki/ComplainAboutShowsYouDontLike This]] is what's left of it. Unfortunately, even discussion about the subject was deleted...
*** I don't know, it seems unfair to me. As other tropers have pointed out, it was a place where we could vent and get festering media-related rage off our chests instead of ranting in real life. Deleting it basically says "We don't want any troper articles that aren't funny or Crowning Moments of Awesome". As long as tropers aren't horribly insulting or threatening anyone in particular, how is it that bad?  
**** There is a thread on the forum for ''Constructive Criticism'' of shows you don't like, if anything.
***** [[SugarWiki/GushingAboutShowsYouLike Gushing About Shows You Like]] is still around, so the [[DarthWiki other side]] should still exist. Besides, "turning into a vortex of rage, rambling and ranting"?! Seriously?! It's [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin COMPLAINING About Shows You Don't Like]], why SHOULDN'T there be COMPLAINING about shows in the DarthWiki article?! 
****** Yo, let me put it this way: {{Pro-Mole}} didn't delete it. Heck, he was against it. As far as he agrees with the above complaint, he wasn't involved in the moderation process, and, apparently, people ''were'' insulting or threatening other people. So, unless you have a very funcional idea for how to make it work ''nicely'', CASYDL will be killed again and again if we ever try to revive it.
******* I assume you do not wish to use the banhammer on those [[{{GIFT}} Complaining About People They Don't Like]]? At the very least, there should be a better explaination on WHY the DarthWiki page is non-existant and a link to the forum... More than what is there now. I mean I personally wasn't there when it happened, so to me it look hypocritical and hypocrisy in GENERAL JustBugsMe. 
******** You're complaining on the wrong place. I was against it. The people who ask why it went down are mostly against it or neutral. I guess the better place to ask "why, oh, why?" is either the discussion page or AskTheTropers. Good luck.
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{{Gemmifer}}: *Sigh* I seem to always be asking about stuff that is considered self-evident. Anyway: How do I add the little "reviews" button to a page?

FastEddie: The page should get one automatically if it is on one of the indexes listed on the {{Works}} page. Sometimes it can take up to a half hour for a new page to be recognized by that system. If your works page isn't picking a up a review link, let me know which page it is.

{{Gemmifer}}: It is for LimyaaelsFantasyRants. Which is indexed under BooksOnTrope. I added that index to the Works index a few hours ago but the reviews button still doesn't show up.

{{Gemmifer}}: Alright, thanks a lot!
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{{Rogue 7}}: Is there a way to delete images once they're uploaded?  I have a really wonky way of cropping pictures to fit, and so I uploaded a few extraneous ones that'd just take up space.

FastEddie: Not really. There is a thing that come along every six months or so and deletes images that are not referred to on a page.
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{{Mullon}}: Is there a code of conduct for a gross overhaul of a trope, or can you just go ahead and do it?

LooneyToons:  It's polite -- but by no means mandatory -- to discuss what you're going to do on the discussion page, especially if you're going to be doing some major revision work.  You don't usually need to do that for something like sorting, categorizing and foldering examples, though.

{{Mullon}}: Well, it doesn't matter now, someone beat me to it. Now I'm debating the merits of overwriting someone's overwrite.

{{Citizen}}: [=~Hey, It's That Voice!~=], right?

{{Mullon}}: Yep.

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[[/folder]]

[[folder: New items at the top, please. ]]



''last batch removed 2 May 09''
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