Created By: FallenLegend on October 4, 2011 Last Edited By: FallenLegend on October 31, 2011
Nuked

ControversialDefinitionTropes (index)

Because Everyone has their own definition.

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A Controversial Definition Trope is a trope that is multivocal. That means that while everyone knows the meaning of the concept in a wide sense. No one has a precise “objective" definition because everyone has their own definition of the term. Even if an objective definition is given, most people will try to impose their own particular interpretation of the concept regardless of the situation.

Mainly because everyone has very strong opinion of what the concept in question should mean.Therefore any attempt at one " true definition" or wheter or not it applies to that particular definition in a given moment will be a source of debate.

The best example is probably Mary Sue. Everyone knows that a Mary Sue is in a broad sense a "perfect character in-universe". However trying to define it with specific criteria is a Berserk Button for many, and therefore impossible to define by any objective means.

For example Whether or not a certain character is a Complete Monster or whether or not a Mary Sue can be a "good character" will depend on each person perception an interpretation of the conpet. In other words the issue will be on the language and not in the events that trope is trying to define.

Differs from with Subjective Trope depending on the context of the situation. While a Subjective Trope definition may be clear and even completely accepted. The issue for a SubjetiveTrope will be whether or not it applies to a given situation (people will perceive the things differently). Whereas in an Controversial Definition Trope the issue won't be on the situation (Everyone could perceive the situation exactly the same), but on the definition of that situation.

  • Anthony kisses Bob on the cheek. Whether or not it is Ho Yay will depend on how you interpret this situation
  • Anthony has many virtues and no flaws. But he is loved in Real Life as a character and is not a fanfic character .Wheter or not he is a Mary Sue will be depend of your definition of the term.[[hottip:*:If you believe Mary Sues can't be likeable, male nor canon characters he won't be a Mary Sue.On the contrary if you believe that a character with no flaws is a Mary Sue regardless of likeability and setting he will be.]]

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  • Any discussion on a board or blog about just what "libertarian" means inevitably bogs down to an unwinnable argument between people pushing their own definition of the term. The Other Wiki's articles on the subject give an overview of the various schools of thought on the subject.

  • Similarly, the terms "Capitalist", "Socialist" and "Communist" have been used by so many people to mean so many different things that they are useless without being prefaced by a careful definition of what the speaker means by the term.

Community Feedback Replies: 12
  • October 4, 2011
    Lumpenprole
    Any discussion on a board or blog about just what "libertarian" means inevitably bogs down to an unwinnable argument between people pushing their own definition of the term. The Other Wiki's articles on the subject give an overview of the various schools of thought on the subject.

    Similarly, the terms "Capitalist", "Socialist" and "Communist" have been used by so many people to mean so many different things that they are useless without being prefaced by a careful definition of what the speaker means by the term.
  • October 4, 2011
    Routerie
    Since our job is to define tropes, we cannot have this page. If a trope appears undefinable, we have to fix it, not index it.
  • October 4, 2011
    FallenLegend
    ^^ Thanks will mention it.

    ^nope eddie said that we are descriptive not prescriptive. Our job is not to define tropes perse. If you read the description is not about tropes that can't be defined literally. the isuue is that there is no real conencus on the defintion even when there is a broad defintion.
  • October 4, 2011
    Auxdarastrix
    I'm not seeing a sufficient difference between this and the YMMV classification.
  • October 4, 2011
    FallenLegend
    Why ? I mean I gave examples...
  • October 5, 2011
    Koveras
    Magnificent Bastard and Ubermensch? I quit following those pages because they kept being rewritten from scratch every month.
  • October 5, 2011
    Routerie
    ^^^^But if it has no definition, it is not a trope. Perhaps people use the word to mean several different tropes. Perhaps people use it for many things, only some of which are tropes. But the trope itself, whatever it is, must have a definition. That's just tautologically true.

    Take Complete Monster. It has a definition ("Horrifically, irredeemably and unrepentantly evil") and it has five criteria that all examples must follow. Perhaps you have your own definition of "complete monster" ("kills many people," "has no friends," "a monster with a head and four limbs") but none of those are the Complete Monster trope.

    A page can list multiple definitions for two reasons:

    1. Our failure. Wiki schizophrenia. Misuse. We have to fix this.

    2. It's an outside term, and we note the different ways people use the term. In this case, we have to document and define each of these separate uses. As we sort of have with Mary Sue - we have separate articles for Purity Sue, God Mode Sue and Black Hole Sue because they are independent concepts, each with their own objective definition.
  • October 5, 2011
    FallenLegend
    ^Perhaps the "indefinition" isn't the appropriate term. I am not saying it's indefinable stricto sensu I will fix that.
  • October 5, 2011
    SirPsychoSexy
  • October 6, 2011
    FallenLegend
    ^^^ Thanks I Will add ^ thx
  • October 30, 2011
    TBeholder
    So, we have Subjective Tropes / YMMV. And speaking of definitions, here's one: "Controversial" is pediawiki-specific shortcut for "it's an obviously hot political subject, which we therefore are going to mumble and chew away just to keep up the superficial pretence of objectivity".
  • October 31, 2011
    Stratadrake
    • Any and all "crowning moment" tropes. It's easy to say that there's some point in a work that stands heads-and-shoulders above others in its awesomeness (hilarity, etc.), but tropers could never agree on which moment qualified for the title. That's why they all got renamed and namespaced.

Three days must pass before this YKTTW is Launchworthy or Discardable

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=wzo4q46piq839d8bq2ql98kj&trope=DiscardedYKTTW