Created By: neoYTPism on May 15, 2011 Last Edited By: neoYTPism on July 19, 2011
Nuked

Heroic Schemer

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
Do We Have This One?... oh, and I am open to title suggestions.

This is the "good guy" counterpart to the Magnificent Bastard. The component tropes still apply, but the character applying them is thought of as, at the very least, on the same side as good.

Naturally, when a story presents a character who sees it as justifiable to engage in this kind of trickery as the good guy, it has a lot of explaining to do. And sometimes, even that is not enough. Even when the justifications for scheming are laid bare, it is often considered a Family-Unfriendly Aesop to imply that the ends justify the means.

Of course, the idea is probably more accepted nowadays than it would have been before, given the increase in the popularity of the idea of the Anti-Hero, and one benefit of this type of Anti-Hero over other types is that it also subverts Brains: Evil; Brawn: Good.

Examples:

  • Most of the team from Inception, but ESPECIALLY Saito. He has clearly done his research; he knows that failing to convince Fischer to break up a major energy company risks letting said company dominate the energy supply of the whole world. He also does not expect Fischer to be convinced consciously to do so. In turn, he is the first to suggest planting the idea in Fischer's subconscious through what turn out to be rather manipulative and deceptive means.
  • Andy Dufresne, from The Shawshank Redemption. He sets up a money-laundering scheme for his warden, which turns out to be a means of buying time for escaping from prison and exposing said warden as a crook. It is still very deceitful and underhanded, though, and that level of trickery is usually the kind that would be associated with the bad guys of a movie, not the good guys.
Community Feedback Replies: 14
  • May 15, 2011
    Deboss
    I'm positive we have this, I just think it's a crappy Character Named Trope. Guile Hero maybe?
  • May 16, 2011
    NoirGrimoir
    Yes, it's Guile Hero. Personally I don't see why a hero can't be a Magnificent Bastard but mnyeh, *shrug*.
  • May 16, 2011
    Deboss
    I think Guile Hero is more a counterpart to Action Hero rather than Magnificent Bastard.
  • May 16, 2011
    ginsengaddict
    Wait... Magnificent Bastard is only villain characters? Since when? Scorpious, Lord Vettinari, John Sheridan, they're all heroic (or at lease mostly heroic) and Magnificent in their Bastardousness.

    Well, if Magnificent Bastard is a villains only club, there absolutely should be one for heroic variants of the character.

    Guile Hero should also be one of the component tropes.
  • May 16, 2011
    neoYTPism
    Wasn't aware of Guile Hero when typing this.

    In any case, if Guile Hero really is the good guy counterpart to Magnificent Bastard, more attention needs to be drawn to it.

    (Oh, and ginsengaddict, I would think Magnificent Bastard would imply that one is, well, a bastard, and not in the parents-unwed-at-birth sense either. Regardless of what moral ambiguity can apply to a good guy, I would have thought the label "bastard" implied it was for villains.)
  • May 16, 2011
    Damr1990
    perhaps may it redirect to the other?
  • May 16, 2011
    Koveras
    ^^The MB entry contains following statement, actually: "The Guile Hero is the heroic analogue to the Magnificent Bastard."
  • May 16, 2011
    ginsengaddict
    ^^^ Guile Hero is not the heroic counterpart to Magnificent Bastard. Guile Hero is simply a hero who is heroic through deceptiveness. The Trickster is only part of the Magnificent Bastard, just as Guile Hero would only be part of the magnificent hero.
  • May 16, 2011
    NoirGrimoir
    I think we should do a trope repair shop on Guile Hero and/or Magnificent Bastard, then. Honestly I think magnificent bastard should be none villain-specific, Guile hero should be about a hero who uses trickery and his wits and then this wouldn't be needed really. Though maybe it would be, though since Magnificent bastard when in it's side-character or Villainous incarnation, usually gets killed off. Someone bring it up in the forum. Or I could.
  • May 22, 2011
    TBeholder
    "The Guile Hero may be considered a heroic analogue to the Magnificent Bastard"
  • May 22, 2011
    pure.Wasted
    The division between heroic and villainous counterparts seems a little counter-intuitive, considering that the sort of trickery it implies usually comes in the "no one knows what side they're really on" variety, and the bad assery it implies comes in the "too bad ass to be Lawful Good" variety.

    Consider the first example listed under the Magnificent Bastard - Real Life page: '2nd Battalion 4th Marines have the official nickname of "Magnificent Bastards."'

    That's the US Marine corp. Confused yet?
  • May 22, 2011
    NoirGrimoir
    I think I will bring this up on the forum.

    Edit: here's the discussion page at Trope Repair Shop please join us!
  • July 18, 2011
    neoYTPism
    Bumping because I feel this should be discussed both in the TRS thread (see above comment from Noir Grimoir) AND here.
  • July 19, 2011
    TheThirdSet
    One. The Magnificint bastard can already be a good guy. Two. All Ender types can fit this trope. Harry potter-whatever-evans from HP&MOR, Shinji from Shinji and Warhammer 40K.

Three days must pass before this YKTTW is Launchworthy or Discardable

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=wigfk88ksgdiehx79h8yl1q8&trope=DiscardedYKTTW