Created By: bud0011 on January 27, 2010
Troped

The Greatest History Never Told

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*launching - now* - please do not comment until a discussion page is up.

A side effect of Hollywood history, this time period rarely, if it ever appears in fiction. Maybe the writers/executives/etc. aren't aware of it. Maybe they fear the ignorance of the views. Whatever the reason, this time period will lead to audience confused over some details and the history buffs cheering.

Designed to be a resource of periods almost-forgotten, in hopes that they will get more exposure overtime, if only to the wiki.

Time Periods are roughly organized into the follwoing:
  1. Pre-History: The time for for written word, before culture, farming, etc. Older Than Dirt
  2. Ancient History: Older Than Feudalism. If you aren't one of the 6 4 main civilizations, you didn't exist. See bellow for more details
  3. Middle History: Older Than Print. Typically depicted in Medieval Stasis, despite many flourishing contemporary empires.
  4. Modern History: Older Than Steam, Older Than Raidio, etc.

Just some notes:
  • If you know of any works related to a given time period, please create a list under the related if one doesn't already exist and then add the works.
  • If a wiki page exists for the time period, please link it in.
  • If you know something about the period, and know that it isn't featured somewhere else in the wiki, please add the information to the text for that time period.
    • If said text becomes big enough, it may warrant moving to a more isolated spot on the page, such as the example Roman Empire under Christianity Bellow. Surronding it with folder tags will also keep it manageable
    • If said text becomes too big for a folder, recommend it as a YKTTW, using the information in the folder as a starting point. If you are successful, remove all but the basic information from this page and place it on the new one. Ensure a wiki link is avaible for anyone whom wishes to follow up on it.

If you know anyone looking to do a Troper Work or Fan Fic, but needs a setting, please point them to this page.

Contrast Hollywood History, Did Not Do Research, They Just Didn't Care, and many others.

Laconic Wiki: everything off the Hollywood History or even The Theme Park Version History Canon

[[foldercontrol]]

Pre-Ancient Times

  • After the dinosaurs died out, but before mammals became dominant and very before Humans began migrating. Species from these ages do not show up in fiction that often, magical-based, time-travel, science-involved, etc. Many ecological niches were open for thousands of years, and wouldn't be until the Ice Age cometh.
  • You don't get much Prehistory before the dinosaurs, either. You'll never see an eccentric billionaire extracting fossil DNA from coal deposits to create Carboniferous Park.

Ancient Times

Includes:
  • Greece Athens, Sparta
  • Egypt
  • Maya, Aztecs, Incas Mayincatec
  • China
  • India
  • Mesopatainia Babylonia

Sumer

[[folder:Christian Roman Empire]]

In the last days of the roman empire, Christianity as on the rise. Fear of persecution, invasions from outsiders, and the quickly deteriorating interior was forcing the empire to give up more and more power to the religious figures and the land owners. In order to try and stabilize the empire, it was divided into two sections: East and West. The East would eventually become Byzantine Empire, and would survive for a long while. The west would continue to break and enter into Medieval Stasis for the next 500 years.
  • the 2004 King Aurthur Tale had Aurhur as a Roman soldier, just around when Rome decided to abandon Britannia as it was "indefensible"
  • Pope Joan averts this, as it takes place in that period. (I hope I'm correct here, or else the historians will kill me.)

[[/folder]]

Other Examples
  • the entire history of the Byzantine Empire.
  • Pre-Classical Greek cultures never show up really.
  • Pre- Qin Dynasty China rarely shows up unless regarding Confucious (The "Spring and Autumn" era)

Middle Ages

  • Due to Medieval Stasis, many cultures during this age aren't shown untill the crusades and the high middle ages.

Other Examples
  • The Islamic Golden Age of the 9th to 13th centuries doesn't get much play outside of the Crusades. Successive Persian empires are largely absent also.
  • Though if you want really ignored, try the Khmer Empire from the same time frame.
  • Carolingian period,
  • the Ottonian period,

Modern Ages

  • Includes:
    • People (re-)discovering science;
    • People going on mighty quests of imperial missions, which intern gives recognition to many other civilizations.

[[folder:United States - Articles of Confederation]]

America just came into existence. 13 Colonies, now one nation. But after fighting for independence, many were not ready to give up their well deserved sovereignty, even in the name of Nation defense. The Articles of Confederation was a solution to this.

Under it, each state volunteered to help out the national government, if the felt it was needed. Taxes, military forces and enforcement of national laws (if there were any) are all choices the states choose to follow or not. In addition, each State, was allowed it's own currency, which made trading a nightmare and with no executive branch, the national government was useless. They were successful with one, and only one, thing: handling the Northwest Ordinance, the first national territory that wasn't part of any one state.

Many saw this as a problem, and organized the second continental congress to come up with suggestions on how to fix it. Instead, they came up our current constitution and that is another story. [[/folder]]

World War II
  • The only thing about World War 1 is that World War 2 has Nazis, which are often considered a "scarier villain" and writers just seem to prefer playing with them. It's an odd situation.
  • Although World War II is done to death in pop culture, a number of fronts are rarely ever mentioned. Notably, the battles between Japan and China, as well as the north-African front.

Other Examples
  • The Opium Wars
  • The Russo-Japanese War
  • the first half of the eighteenth century
  • The Mexican-American War of 1848-1849.
    • Remember the Alamo! (still counts as an example, as most people don't know the entire Mexican-American War, what caused it, what we gained from it, or anything related).
      • FYI: The Alamo occured during Texas' war for independance, the Mexician-American War started later, when Texas applied to the US for membership and was accepted. The Mexican government, correctly seeing this as the end of any chance of ever getting Texas back, violently objected. Mexico ended up losing even more territory to the US as a result, including California.
  • The French and Indian War.
  • The only mention I can recall in the US or UK media of the Independence Wars of Latin America is on Age of Empires III
  • Also, the 1910s in Britain at least. No longer Victorian, but not yet World War One.

Needs to be sorted?

Other Examples

  • Other than an offhand mention in Citizen Kane the Spanish-American War (1898), hasn't appeared very often.
  • the Hundred Years War,
    • The Hundred Years War has, I think, A Knights Tale. However it's such a shameless Anachronism Stew that this doesn't have much bearing on anything.
    • The Hundred Years War is partially dealt with in Shakespeare's History plays, especially Henry VI Part I
  • the Thirty Years War,
  • Most stories set in Tudor times take place under the reigns of Elizabeth I or Henry VIII, while Henry VII, Queen Mary I and Edward VI are rarely touched upon.
  • Thing is, it means most part of everything (even Eurasia) for most of times.
  • And poor old Central Asia only began to exist in 2006 when a hairy man donned a mankini. Well, prior to this they were ruled by the MIGHTY GHENGIS KHAN for many hundreds of years, up until becoming the stock "screwed up place run by warlords to provide some necessary tension between the US and Soviets/Russians for the initiation of ass-kicking" if Berlin, the Middle East or some ultra secretly secret new technology was already booked out.
  • And the Indian sub-continent definitely didn't exist prior to the arrival of the British.
  • Basically to Hollywood South East Asia doesn't exist prior to the Vietnam War or, if you are very very lucky, the arrival of European traders. "Asia" then means feudal China, samurais, ninjas and kung fu. I can't recall many Hollywood movies set "now" in SE Asia either (at least ones that don't think the whole area is mired down in some form of guerrilla war), though countries in the region do have fairly active local film industries.
  • Congo War (aka the deadliest human conflict in the history of ever)?

Examples that prove that History Is Mallable
  • I wonder if I should backtrack a bit on the Hundred Years War. Joan of Arc is a pretty popular character. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing Edward III or the Black Prince very often.
  • World War One is disappearing, as the last of the verterns are dieing off.
  • The Spanish Civil War doesn't get a lot of play, except in Spain, where it is pratically a trope (Anyone want to YKTTW on this?).
  • Russo-Japanese war was done by ''Sidney Reily Ace of Spies. It was a "nice little war" from the days when everyone considered each other a Worthy Opponent, and so has a bit of Lostalgia. It just got overlooked.
  • I haven't the foggiest idea of why the North African Campaign of World War II isn't covered enough. It seems to have everything one can desire what with exotic cities, no pesky civilians wandering around the battlefield except for bedouin who can take care of themselves, and even a climate that is funner to contemplate(Libyan desert dust sounds less unpleasant to fight in, then French mud). And lots of potential Scenery Porn. And even some Real Life Badass characters who might have been made by a movie. Plus a Worthy Opponent Foe Yay kind of spirit that is a throwback to Ye Goode Old Days.
  • The Russian Front of World War II has the same disadvantage of Thirty Years War. The main contenders were Evil Versus Evil , everyone else was just trodden on and so on. Whereas in the West it doesn't quite feel that way to contemplate it.
  • What I don't understand is why there is not more good stuff about the Russo-Finnish war. It seems made for TV what with a small country filled with Honor Before Reason defying the Dirty Communists and saying This is Finland.
  • The Polish Soviet War should also have been covered.

*launching - now* - please do not comment until a discussion page is up.
Community Feedback Replies: 62
  • December 31, 2009
    Lancer873
    Three words: World War One.
  • December 31, 2009
    bud0011
    as an example?
  • December 31, 2009
    Kellor
    The Spanish Civil War doesn't get a lot of play.
  • December 31, 2009
    JackButler
    Wars are good for this a lot:
    • Other than an offhand mention in Citizen Kane the Spanish-American War (1898), hasn't appeared very often.
    • The French and Indian War.
    • The Mexican-American War of 1848-1849.

    How about the United States prior to the institution of the Constitution?
  • December 31, 2009
    bud0011
    oooo, i like that one. Article of Confederation..... *shudders*
  • December 31, 2009
    Tannhaeuser
    I don't think WWI is a very good example. I can think of a lot of references to the Great War in popular fiction: Snoopy as The World War I flying ace, The Dawn Patrol, Blackadder Goes Forth, Sergeant York, "First World War Noises" on Monty Python's Flying Circus -- those all take place completely in the First World War. Things that take place partly then would be a lot more common.

    In terms of truly neglected historical periods, try the Carolingian period, the Ottonian period, the Hundred Years War, the Thirty Years War, the first half of the eighteenth century, and the entire history of the Byzantine Empire. What was the last film you've seen that featured Alexius and Anna Comnena--or even Justinian and Theodora?
  • December 31, 2009
    TrustBen
    Sumer. Pre-Classical cultures other than Egypt are largely ignored.
  • December 31, 2009
    bud0011
    so, remove WWI? It is becoming less and less known over the ages. Have you played a WWI video game? it would probably be boring, trench warfare and all.

    also, how do i folder?
  • December 31, 2009
    Tannhaeuser
    For folders, best go to Ask The Tropers.

    I wonder if I should backtrack a bit on the Hundred Years War. Joan Of Arc is a pretty popular character. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing Edward III or the Black Prince very often.
  • January 1, 2010
    Arivne
    World War I videogames? Try Armor Games' Warfare 1917.
  • January 1, 2010
    HeartOfAnAstronaut
    The only thing about World War 1 is that World War 2 has Nazis, which are often considered a "scarier villain" and writers just seem to prefer playing with them. It's an odd situation.

    Most stories set in Tudor times take place under the reigns of Elizabeth I or Henry VIII, while Henry VII, Queen Mary I and Edward VI are rarely touched upon.

    Also, the 1910s in Britain at least. No longer Victorian, but not yet World War One.
  • January 1, 2010
    Aminatep
    Hmm, I recall a nice article about wars completely ignored in videogames so far. Gone searching.
  • January 1, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    • The Opium Wars
    • The Russo-Japanese War
    • Although World War II is done to death in pop culture, a number of fronts are rarely ever mentioned. Notably, the battles between Japan and China, as well as the north-African front.
    • Pre-Classical Greek cultures never show up really.
    • Pre- Qin Dynasty China rarely shows up unless regarding Confucious (The "Spring and Autumn" era)
  • January 1, 2010
    Vree
    This will be a great idea source, but I dont have exampes.
  • January 1, 2010
    Vree
    (Also while the name's not bad isn't there one that does not make you t5hink that it is Hollywood that is absent? xD)
  • January 1, 2010
    Maxmordon
    The only mention I can recall in the US or UK media of the Independence Wars of Latin America is on Age Of Empires III
  • January 1, 2010
    TBeholder
    But basically, doesn't this mean "everything not included in the Hollywood History / The Theme Park Version History / Politically Correct History Canon"?

    Thing is, it means most part of everything (even Eurasia) for most of times.

    Example: The Junk and the Dhow by Rudyard Kipling. That's just twisting a marlin spike in a wound, isn't it?..
  • January 1, 2010
    DanielLC
  • January 1, 2010
    bud0011
    All:keep in mind, having a few examples may still qualify as the trope, but the examples are a subversion or exception to it.

    Vree: it's absent from Hollywood History, not real history.
  • January 1, 2010
    Vree
    'I' know that, but will everyone know that?
  • January 1, 2010
    bud0011
    you have a point there.

    any idea how to explicitly or implicitly state that?
  • January 1, 2010
    TheChainMan
    Wait, the Spanish Civil War doesn't get a lot of play? Maybe in Hollywood, but in Spain itself, there are so many movies about that time period that "mocking the loads of Spanish Civil War movies" is practically a trope.
  • January 1, 2010
    bud0011
    Now, is it a Hollywood Version of the Civil War or Historically Accurate version?
  • January 1, 2010
    Omar Karindu
    Also, tons of famous novels by people like Hemingway are set in or mention the Spanish Civil War.
  • January 1, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    I would take WW 1 off that list: it's hugely present in literature, films and TV in the UK.
  • January 1, 2010
    random surfer
    You're talking about US movies/TV/books, right?

    Korea basically doesn't exist until the Korean War. Ditto Viet Nam.
  • January 1, 2010
    animeg3282
    Africa outside Egypt doesn't exist until colonization.
  • January 1, 2010
    Tannhaeuser
    Have to disagree about the 1910's, aka The Edwardian Era. This is a very common period for fiction, especially in the UK. Off the top of my head -- US: The Great Race, In the Good Old Summertime, High Button Shoes, Mary Poppins, My Fair Lady, I Remember Mama -- UK (not as familiar with, but): Upstairs, Downstairs, Half A Sixpence, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Nicholas and Alexandra, The Duchess of Duke Street, The Forsyte Saga, Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines. Doubtless research could add a great many more.
  • January 1, 2010
    bud0011
    random surfer: this doesn't have to be US centric, unless that's a requirement of the Hollywood History.

    Tannhaeuser: makes sense

    animeg3282: will add tomorrow
  • January 2, 2010
    nikau
    The Islamic Golden Age of the 9th to 13th centuries doesn't get much play outside of the Crusades. Successive Persian empires are largely absent also.

    Though if you want really ignored, try the Khmer Empire from the same time frame.

    Basically to Hollywood South East Asia doesn't exist prior to the Vietnam War or, if you are very very lucky, the arrival of European traders. "Asia" then means feudal China, samurais, ninjas and kung fu. I can't recall many Hollywood movies set "now" in SE Asia either (at least ones that don't think the whole area is mired down in some form of guerrilla war), though countries in the region do have fairly active local film industries.

    And poor old Central Asia only began to exist in 2006 when a hairy man donned a mankini. Well, prior to this they were ruled by the MIGHTY GHENGIS KHAN for many hundreds of years, up until becoming the stock "screwed up place run by warlords to provide some necessary tension between the US and Soviets/Russians for the initiation of ass-kicking" if Berlin, the Middle East or some ultra secretly secret new technology was already booked out.

    And the Indian sub-continent definitely didn't exist prior to the arrival of the British.

    At least that is what I can gather from movies, literature may be able to take place on more than 3 pages of an atlas.
  • January 2, 2010
    bud0011
    in an Justified or Enforced sense of the trope, what is the " Khmer Empire"?
  • January 2, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    As for the "interval between the K-T and Ice Age" period, I can think of two books that easily occur then. Silverwing's "prequel" Darkwing takes place in the Paleocene, a mere generation after the dinosaurs got the axe. And the Ratha books would most likely take place about Oligocene or Miocene. A couple of the Rivers Of Time stories involved going back to the Miocene or Oligocene too.
  • January 2, 2010
    random surfer
    Well, the reason I asked "You're talking about US movies/TV/books, right?" is because - to use one of my own examples - I know Korean TV has a lot of stuff about Korean history, but US has (basically) nothing until the Korean War. Generally speaking, any foreign country's history will not be explored in much detail until/unless it impacts on the native country's people.
  • January 2, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    Korean TV is cool and a lot of it is becoming popular in the US.
  • January 2, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    Thirty years war is to obviously War Is Hell, and has a plot that devolves into formlessness. It is not World War II.

    Russo-Japanese war was done by ''Sidney Reily Ace of Spies. It was a "nice little war" from the days when everyone considered each other a Worthy Opponent, and so has a bit of Lostalgia. It just got overlooked.

    I haven't the foggiest idea of why the North African Campaign of World War II isn't covered enough. It seems to have everything one can desire what with exotic cities, no pesky civilians wandering around the battlefield except for bedouin who can take care of themselves, and even a climate that is funner to contemplate(Libyan desert dust sounds less unpleasant to fight in, then French mud). And lots of potential Scenery Porn. And even some Real Life Badass characters who might have been made by a movie. Plus a Worthy Opponent Foe Yay kind of spirit that is a throwback to Ye Goode Old Days.

    The Russian Front of World War II has the same disadvantage of Thirty Years War. The main contenders were Evil Versus Evil , everyone else was just trodden on and so on. Whereas in the West it doesn't quite feel that way to contemplate it.

    What I don't understand is why there is not more good stuff about the Russo-Finnish war. It seems made for TV what with a small country filled with Honor Before Reason defying the Dirty Communists and saying This is Finland.

    The Polish Soviet War should also have been covered.
  • January 2, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    And why is the Byzantine Empire missing? Lots of good stuff about a Vestigial Empire fighting to survive, and actually manageing it for quite a while.
  • January 2, 2010
    HeartOfAnAstronaut
    Tannheuser: checkMATE. I live in the UK and have not heard of many of those. Except, like, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, DUH.
  • January 2, 2010
    Karalora
    You don't get much Prehistory before the dinosaurs, either. You'll never see an eccentric billionaire extracting fossil DNA from coal deposits to create Carboniferous Park.
  • January 3, 2010
    Tannhaeuser
    Heh, Heart Of An Astronaut, that's probably because you are too young. Most of those were probably made before you were born or thought of.

    I wonder if this trope could used some narrowing to historical periods that one would expect to have been covered in the English-speaking media. I mean, one isn't really surprised that there aren't a lot of films about the history of mediaeval Timbuktu or Java in the 1950's, because there weren't a lot of Malians or Javanese in the U.S. or Britain in the hey-day of the historical film. But one would have thought that a movie set in mediaeval Poland or 17th century Holland would have been just the sort of thing that could have been made as a propaganda vehicle against The Empire, aka Those Wacky Nazis.
  • January 3, 2010
    HeartOfAnAstronaut
    OT but what war was Goodnight Mister Tom? The second, right, because the boy's family is killed in the Blitz?
  • January 4, 2010
    Arivne
  • January 4, 2010
    Tannhaeuser
    I second Arivne's suggestion.
  • January 4, 2010
    berr
    Truth In Television

    • African Kingdoms pre- and during European Colonization (basically anything set in Africa before the 1930s) are canonically decried / denied by many European historians as not being "real kingdoms" but mere "petty chiefdoms". Unlike, say, the oh-so-highly advanced Anglo-Saxon and Carolingian kingdoms petty chiefdoms whom these same scholars write reams of books about.

      • Although to be fair, the history of Dark Age Europe is also Historically Absent.

      • Holds true for Marxist historians as well: unlike right wingers, they focus on the "socio-economic history" of so-called "tribal" peoples and declare the political history of these places (pre-colonial Africa and the Americas) irrelevant to a "people centered view".

      • Conservative historians merely deny these places have a pre-colonial political history that is "notable" or "verifiable". sound familiar?

    • Along the same lines, the British-recognized territorial boundaries of the Iroquois Nation and Cherokee Nation which had their own national boundaries and constitutions have been entirely scrubbed from the U.S. history books.
  • January 4, 2010
    berr
    Historically Absent.

    A Tale Never Told.

    No need to put Hollywood in the title? Makes it harder to find.
  • January 4, 2010
    bud0011
    well, Hollywood would make it harder to find, but without it might leave the impression that this is the historical communities (like archeology, paleotology and anthropology) are ignoring them as well.

    So, I like History Hollywood Ignores and A Tale Never Told
  • January 4, 2010
    Tannhaeuser
    Heh, or like Edgar Rice Burroughs, The History Hollywood Forgot (kidding, as no-one wants another "The" trope name.

    I think adding "Hollywood" would actually make the trope easier to find, since most of our historical tropes link to Hollywood History anyway, don't they?

    Perhaps it could be emphasized in the trope description that the history listed is one which it would be reasonable for Hollywood to have covered, and contributors could be encouraged to state why they think their example ought to have been.

    By the way, in case you never got your answer, Heart Of An Astronaut, yes, Goodbye Mr Tom is the Second World War.

  • January 5, 2010
    Grue
    Congo War (aka the deadliest human conflict in the history of ever)?
  • January 5, 2010
    Chabal2
    Empire Earth's Medieval campaign actually featured the Black Prince.
  • January 5, 2010
    vijeno
    While I agree that this is basically just Hollywood History in reverse, I find the examples EXTREMELY educating (and entertaining!). So I'm all for this.

    As for the christian-roman empire: Pope Joan averts this, as it takes place in that period. (I hope I'm correct here, or else the historians will kill me.)
  • January 10, 2010
    bud0011
    cool.

    um... this replies section is getting a little long. So, i wish to declare 1 of 2 things:
    1. Up For Grabs
    2. Launch Time

    either sound good?
  • January 11, 2010
    johnnye
    The Greatest History Never Told?

    I'm thinking this should be pitched as a fiction resource of interesting historical settings with not enough exposure. That's how it seems to be intended, but it looks like it could slide into yet another Hollywood History-bashing which would be a shame.

    The Hundred Years War has, I think, A Knights Tale. However it's such a shameless Anachronism Stew that this doesn't have much bearing on anything.
  • January 11, 2010
    random surfer
    The Hundred Years War is partially dealt with in Shakespeare's History plays, especially Henry VI Part I
  • January 12, 2010
    bud0011
    johnnye: I agree, a bashing of Hollywood history would be sad.

    I think i will incorporated what you said in the second paragrah into it (the third is a given in)
  • January 14, 2010
    bud0011
    almost good for launching, so i put a launch clock on this YKTTW at 10:33 EST.

    usually i do a 72 hour notice, but i am going to be away on sunday, and busy on monday, making launching difficult for me.

    now, on to the name. We have:
    1. History Hollywood Ignores
    2. A Tale Never Told
    3. Forgotten History Hollywood
    4. The Greatest History Never Told
    5. History Hollywood Forgot

    which one, which one?
  • January 14, 2010
    Tannhaeuser
    While I agree that one doesn't want to bash Hollywood History (I tend to agree with George MacDonald Fraser's thesis in A Hollywood History of the World that the movies have done a better job of telling history than they are generally given credit for), I still believe that for the better use and enjoyment of Tropers the word "Hollywood" should be included in the title, just to make the trope easier to find. On the other hand, I do love the pun in The Greatest History Never Told. So I will vote for either 4 or 5.
  • January 17, 2010
    rlkitterman
    Maybe "History Hollywood Never Told"? Another historical period often overlooked is Soviet history prior to 1941, namely because of the sensitive nature of the Russian Civil War and Stalin's purges.
  • January 17, 2010
    Tannhaeuser
  • January 17, 2010
    BlueIce-Tea
    I vote The Greatest History Never Told.

    Have these been said?:
    • North American history pre-1492.
    • Pretty much all British history between the death of Queen Elizabeth (1603) and the accession of Queen Victoria (1837). (Maybe I've been watching the wrong movies, but I think the Civil War/Interregnum period gets remarkably little play.)
  • January 18, 2010
    Teufelchen
    I'm not sure all of these are as underused as all that. Here are some examples of works set during the periods contributors have mentioned:

    Early Byzantine Empire: Count Belisarius (Robert Graves).

    Late Byzantine Empire: The Golden Horn (Judith Tarr).

    Hundred Years War: Henry V, A Knight's Tale (which isn't particularly an Anachronism Stew; rather it has an extremely populist Translation Convention).

    English Civil War: Cromwell, To Kill a King.

    Spanish Civil War: The Devil's Backbone, Pan's Labyrinth, Land and Freedom.
  • January 25, 2010
    bud0011
    So, by Rule Of Three, The Greatest History Never Told wins the name contest!!!!1111oneoneone.

    i can't edit it here, but will launch tonight if no one objects.
  • January 25, 2010
    LarryD
    FYI: The Alamo occured during Texas' war for independance, the Mexician-American War started later, when Texas applied to the US for membership and was accepted. The Mexican government, correctly seeing this as the end of any chance of ever getting Texas back, violently objected. Mexico ended up losing even more territory to the US as a result, including California.
  • January 27, 2010
    bud0011
    Thank you. i will include it in the launch.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=pf1fwdvnkuy5oprq2ovis3r9