Created By: XFllo on April 10, 2013 Last Edited By: Melkior on May 9, 2013
Troped

Meaningful Look

Characters exchange a look to communicate without words

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Page Type:
Trope

Attention: This is an already launched trope, but it badly needs more examples. It did not run through YKTTW when it was launched, so please comment all you can regarding the description, indexes, related tropes etc.
The Meaningful Look is a staple of drama in all visual arts, and is often used in comedy as well. From the regretful smile of The Hero who is about to make the Ultimate Sacrifice to the wink of the captured rogue to signal his hidden rescuers, much can be said without words. It can indicate a secret, a character knowing more than they let on, or the scene may involve a person in front of whom the character cannot talk openly.

The Meaningful Look can be used by the author of a visual work to communicate a message to the audience rather than to a character, but if the look is Breaking the Fourth Wall, that's an Aside Glance.

In summary, there are two types of Meaningful Look:
1. Between characters, in-universe.
2. Author to audience, via a character but without Breaking the Fourth Wall.

Because facial expressions are used as a part of communication all the time, this trope is only for examples where the look is used as a substitute for speech or the look conveys a fairly specific message.

Related to Facial Dialogue, which is about whole conversations happening silently through expression or characters normally or habitually communicating this way, but Meaningful Look is a single look only. In deciding whether or not to place an example here, consider whether or not the character(s) normally or habitually communicate by Meaningful Looks. If they do, the example probably belongs in Facial Dialogue instead of here.

The Meaningful Look is a supertrope to the Traitor Shot, Held Gaze, Longing Look and Disapproving Look.


Indexes:

Examples:

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Comics]]
  • A to-the-audience example occurs in the ElfQuest story, Kings Of The Broken Wheel when Ember is about to hit her brother, Suntop, for blatantly insulting her (see page image). She then realises he did it because he's in severe distress and drops her hand (was a fist). The look she gives her brother, combining realisation, pity and concern, is seen only by the reader (Suntop is looking the other way at the time) and so is obviously meant to convey to the reader not only the message that Ember loves her brother but also that this is a stage in her advancing maturity and developing personality.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Film - Live Action]]
  • Pride and Prejudice (2005): When Miss Darcy meets Elizabeth for the first time at Pemberley, she gives her and her brother Mr Darcy a knowing look. It's implied that Miss Darcy knows that he's in love with her, and wonders what Elizabeth's feelings are.
  • The Newman / Redford classic The Sting has each con man arriving in Chicago casually flick his nose with his right index finger to signal that he's "in" on the plan to fleece Doyle Lonnegan.
  • True Lies features maverick agent Harry Tasker piloting a Harrier jet. His daughter is clinging to the nose cone (an improvised rescue) while the Big Bad stands on one wing with a pointed firearm. Harry rolls his eyes to his right as a signal to his daughter that he's going to roll the jet. The girl is ready for this move, and doesn't fall off; the Big Bad misses the signal and topples off the edge.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Literature]]
  • The little girls in Zilpha Keatley Snyder's novels often give each other such looks, demonstrating the almost-ESP said girls experience when together. Ivy and Martha do this a few times in Literature/The Changeling, usually over the real-world confirmation of an element in their imaginary games. In The Egypt Game, April and Melanie look at each other this way when something strikes them as particularly appropriate for Egypt. Toby grouses that it's "like they have Siamese brains or something". When Pomma and Teera in the Green-Sky Trilogy do this, sometimes they actually are communicating telepathically.
  • Emma by Jane Austen:
    • During the dinner party at the Coles, Frank Churchill casts a long look at Miss Fairfax. When Emma notices, he says Miss Fairfax has a strange hairdo and that he couldn't help himself and had to stare. However, it was a loving and longing look. They are secretly engaged.
    • Mr Knightley noticed significant glances which Frank Churchill directed at Miss Fairfax while he dined with them and Emma was not present. He thought the looks were inappropriate because Frank Churchill seemed to court Emma. Mr Knightley is the only one who correctly suspected that Franck Churchill and Jane Fairfax share a relationship.
  • Pride and Prejudice: Mr Darcy frequently fixes his eyes on Elizabeth. She notices that he does that but concludes it's only because he thinks something is wrong or improper about her. Later in the story, Charlotte also notices Mr Darcy often gazes at Elizabeth. She thinks and hopes it could mean he admires her, but she also thinks it could only be that he's absent-minded.
  • In The Handmaid's Tale, when Offred pairs up with Ofglen on her errands to the market, there's a moment where the two exchange a quiet knowing look through their reflections on a shop window, where they first mutually communicate to each other that they are both dissenters to the theocratic order. This is seen poignantly in the film as well.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Live Action TV]]
  • Star Trek: The Next Generation: Captain Picard uses this explicitly to communicate his intentions to his crew on at least one occasion when he does not want an alien species to know what is about to happen.
  • In Game of Thrones, Renly Baratheon shares a lingering look with his secret lover Loras at the Hand of the King's tourney, the first indication the viewer receives that there's a relationship.
  • The X-Files, "Grotesque": Agent Mulder is sinking into darkness and madness when he's investigating a particularly difficult case with a copycat serial killer. His supervisor Skinner asks his partner how he deals.
    Skinner: Are you worried about him, Agent Scully?
    Scully: No, sir.
    Skinner: Off the record.
    (Scully doesn't answer. She just cocks her head and looks extremely sad.)
    Skinner: So am I.
  • Horatio Hornblower, second instalment "Mutiny" and "Retribution": Many characters exchange significant looks when they cannot say what they would like to. Usually it's because they are in front of their superiors and they cannot talk freely.
    • Lieutenants and best pals Horatio Hornblower and Archie Kennedy exchange lots of Meaningful Looks which express their dissatisfaction and disgust with the situation on their ship, commanded by paranoid and mentally unstable captain. They understand each other without words.
    • Styles and Matthews, most prominent lower deck characters, share a worried look when Captain Sawyer assigns Hornblower to serve 36 hours of continuous watch, and reminds him that when an officer is found asleep on watch, it means a death sentence.
    • Hornblower signals to 1st Lt. Buckland that he shouldn't interfere with Captain Sawyer and that he should carry out his order to arrest all the other lieutenants.
    • In the second part, "Retribution", Lt. Bush joins Hornblower and Kennedy in the fun. They start trading the looks which express their annoyance with Acting Captain Buckland's incompetence and lack of commanding abilities.
    • Their Spanish adversaries and prisoners, Senor and Senora Ortega share a look after they were forced to the unconditional surrender. We later find out its meaning. He wanted her to pull The Vamp and Femme Fatale. She pretended she was interested in having sex and killed one stupid Red Shirt, and the Spanish prisoners took over the ship.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Web Comics]]
  • Invoked by name in Homestuck.
    SOLLUX: yes they will! they just t0ld me.
    VRISKA: I d8dn't hear them say shit!
    SOLLUX: they b0th gave me meaningful glances!
    SOLLUX: like as if t0 say, aw yeah, let's b0unce.
[[/folder]]
Community Feedback Replies: 43
  • April 10, 2013
    MacronNotes
    So, this is related to Facial Dialogue?
  • April 10, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ I have to read Facial Dialogue. It might even be the very same trope. It happens when tropers don't use ykttw. (Not my trope, btw, I just wanted to take care of that.)
  • April 10, 2013
    helterskelter
    I can see this being a separate trope. Facial Dialogue is about whole conversations happening silently through expression. This is about a single, meaningful stare. It indicate a secret, a character knowing more then they let on, etc. It's used a lot in fiction, particularly in visual media. Man this is such a common trope.

    • In Game Of Thrones, Renly Baratheon shares a lingering look with his secret lover Loras at the Hand of the King's tourney, the first indication the viewer receives that there's a relationship.
  • April 11, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ I think I agree. Probably a case of Seen It A Million Times.

    edit: I slightly extended the description and added examples from Hornblower and Game Of Thrones.

    Also, I added possible indexes (those used with Facial Dialogue and Eye Tropes - that one lists tropes like Disapproving Look or Kubrick Stare).
  • April 11, 2013
    MorningStar1337
    Make supertrope to Traitor Shot
  • April 12, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ Adding!
    Held Gaze and Longing Look seem to be subtropes of this as well, yes? (I suck terribly at establishing relationships between tropes, so please help me on this and comment. :-) )
    Also, I'd like to ask: Shall we use this sentence from the description? I used the strike mark-up for now. May be used by The Voiceless as a means of communication. I think that belongs to a Facial Dialogue.
  • April 12, 2013
    XFllo
    ...
  • April 12, 2013
    Melkior
    I launched this trope through not understanding the procedure and for that I apologise.

    I'm glad that it has been received well. I mostly agree with the opinions expressed so far.

    Peewee Friendly, yes, that should probably go on Facial Dialogue instead. The reason is that he does it all the time, but Captain Picard, no. That example should stay on this page because the example is an isolated incident (Picard does not make a habit of communicating just with Meaningful Looks).

    I think that should be one of the defining characteristics for Meaningful Look, separating it from Facial Dialogue. The latter involves either habitual use or an extended exchange using only looks while the former is for isolated incidents (which are all the more meaningful because of that isolation).

    I agree with having Held Gaze, Longing Look and Traitor Shot as subtropes, and I think having Meaningful Look as a subtrope of Facial Dialogue is worth considering. Should be indexed on Eye Tropes since it's hard to give a Meaningful Look without eye contact.
  • April 12, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ Melkior, please feel free to treat this entry as OP (original poster). Cool trope. And I ask: How Did We Miss This One? :-)
  • April 12, 2013
    Melkior
    Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "treat this entry as OP". I know Original Poster but the rest is over my head (or past my ear, or something). I'm still learning how to run this thing. :-j
  • April 12, 2013
    Melkior
    It just occurred to me that if Meaningful Look is accepted, the Facial Dialogue page should have text added to the introduction to help clarify the separation of the two tropes. Proposed text:

    The Facial Dialogue trope exists if a character makes a habit of communicating by facial expressions or where a two-way conversation is conducted through just facial expressions. For a single look intended to convey a particular meaning, see Meaningful Look.
  • April 12, 2013
    XFllo
    An OP in YKTTW or trope sponsor is someone who proposes a trope. Generally, it's their responsibility to take care of it. You may do a lots of YKTTW Bump or "zero editing" of the draft to get it on the first page to get more attention (as sometimes propositions get stuck in this phase for ever; usually when it's not tropeworthy or the OP doesn't care too much), and also OP should do Rolling Updates (adding ideas from the discussion to the draft).

    When tropers think the trope is ready, the draft receives a hat. Usually, tropes with five hats are considered good to go. Sometimes you have to ask for them, and sometimes you cannot take them too seriously as some people use it as a way to praise the concept, but forget that the description or examples need polishing.

    I liked this trope and thought I would run it here to give it a proper treatment. But since you care -- I say it's all yours. :-) You can read more things in Administrivia section about how things work here in YKTTW and other wiki sections. It can be overwhelming at first, but it's for the good. :-)
    To the trope itself: It occurred to me that snarkers will use Meaningful Look a lot - all the smirking and sneering. Especially Silent Snarker might get it a lot...
    EDIT: It's always a good thing to establish relationships with other tropes. Your proposition seems ok.
  • April 12, 2013
    Melkior
    Thanks for the help. I'll have a look at the information when I get a chance.

    I think the Silent Snarker should normally go in Facial Dialogue because it's habitual behaviour of a particular character and I see Meaningful Look as belonging more to one-off situations. A single incidence of Silent Snarking may apply if the message contains more than just snark and the message is an unusual one for the character.

    Discuss: Should Meaningful Look also apply if the look is intended for the audience rather than for an in-universe character? This applies whether or not the look is Breaking The Fourth Wall.

    I'm thinking in particular of things like the ElfQuest story Kings Of The Broken Wheel, where Ember nearly hits Suntop for insulting her, then suddenly changes her mind as she realises why he's doing it. The look of combined concern, pity and realisation on her face in panel 3, page 18, chapter 3 is only seen by the reader and although it doesn't break the fourth wall, it's particularly meaningful because it shows that she really does love her brother.

    This look is obviously intended for the reader, since not even Suntop sees it (he's facing the other way at the time). Should this type of example be included as a Meaningful Look, or should it be restricted to only in-universe (character to character) looks? I'm inclined to include it.

    You can examine the page at www.elfquest.com if you go to the Online Comics section then scroll down to Kings Of The Broken Wheel and select chapter 3. You'll need to advance through the flash pages until you reach page 18.

    I'm considering using panel 3 from that page as the page image for Meaningful Look, but I'm not certain it's the best illustration (and I still don't know how to upload images to add to pages).

    I'm inclined to use it because it's a less-obvious example and yet is a good example of the to-the-audience version of the trope.
  • April 12, 2013
    Melkior
    I'm taking responsibility for this trope, until and unless it's accepted and officially launched. If the decision is that there's already an existing trope, I'll accept that.

    I've edited the trope page because I think some of the suggestions here are worthwhile. They reflect my intentions when I created the trope.

    Let me know if I shouldn't be editing the trope and I'll stop.
  • April 13, 2013
    XFllo
    I guess that depends on you, really, whether you want to keep expanding on it or make the changes all at once.

    I think the fourth wall thing you mention is a trope already: Aside Glance.
  • April 14, 2013
    Melkior
    Well then, I'll add stuff I think is appropriate.

    You're right about Aside Glance. I'm in two minds over including Meaningful Looks which are not an Aside Glance but convey a message to the audience.

    I'd appreciate help in collecting more examples to flesh out the trope.
  • April 14, 2013
    Irrisia
    • Invoked by name in Homestuck.
      SOLLUX: yes they will! they just t0ld me.
      VRISKA: I d8dn't hear them say shit!
      SOLLUX: they b0th gave me meaningful glances!
      SOLLUX: like as if t0 say, aw yeah, let's b0unce.
  • April 17, 2013
    Melkior
    Are the digits part of the original text or did you hit the zero and eight keys just because?

    I've decided that Meaningful Look should cover looks intended for the audience only, so long as the look doesn't break the fourth wall. In order to qualify, the look must not be noticed by another character.

    Removed the example with Picard since it's already covered by Facial Dialogue (although I'm not sure that the text on that page is correct about it being an entire conversation).

    Is there a trope for a "meaningful" look which is noticed by an in-universe character who the look wasn't directed at? If not, should there be one or would a trope for that be too big because it's used everywhere?
  • April 17, 2013
    XFllo
    Don't forget that Tropes Are Flexible, so this trope should cover most significant looks, whether the third party (the one for whom the look was not meant) notices it or not. My understanding or Meaningful Look was that it happens when characters communicate with a look in-universe. They intend it for themselves, not acknowledging the audience at all. But of course viewers do notice.

    (PS: I think I should remove most of my comments about how YKTTW works. It makes this discussion look too messy and disorganized.)
    edit: I really disagree with this part in the description: If the look is noticed by an in-universe character while not being directed at that character, the look isn't this trope. Many characters in-universe can notice meaningful looks. Similarly, they can overhear a conversation or hear a speech which is nor directed at them.
  • April 18, 2013
    helterskelter
    Use the tag system to ask for examples (which I have done for you); the title doesn't need to be changed.
  • April 20, 2013
    Melkior
    Thanks for adding the tag, helterskelter.

    I feel that the explanations may be useful for other new tropers, but it's up to you, XFllo.

    I'm having a bit of trouble resolving whether the Meaningful Look should be exclusively in-universe or should be shared with author-to-audience (not fourth wall breaking) looks. What do others think?
  • April 20, 2013
    Irrisia
    No, the 8s and 0s are how the original text reads.
  • April 20, 2013
    Daedalus
    It should be mentioned that this trope is common when a character is undercover and the opposing groups clash. In the case of battles the look often takes place over ridiculous distances with the audiences being treated to close-ups while the characters would need telescopes to even find the person.
  • April 22, 2013
    Melkior
    I've got a couple of examples for this trope.

    Some of them would count only if you took out If the look is noticed by an in-universe character while not being directed at that character, the look isn't this trope.

    Film -- Live Action
    • Pride And Prejudice (2005): When Miss Darcy meets Elizabeth for the first time at Pemberley, she gives her and her brother Mr Darcy a knowing look. It's implied that Miss Darcy knows that he's in love with her, and wonders what Elizabeth's feelings are.

    Literature
    • Emma by Jane Austen:
      • During the dinner party at the Coles, Frank Churchill casts a long look at Miss Fairfax. When Emma notices, he says Miss Fairfax has a strange hairdo and that he couldn't help himself and had to stare. However, it was a loving and longing look. They are secretly engaged.
      • Mr Knightley noticed significant glances which Frank Churchill directed at Miss Fairfax while he dined with them and Emma was not present. He thought the looks were inappropriate because Frank Churchill seemed to court Emma. Mr Knightley is the only one who correctly suspected that Franck Churchill and Jane Fairfax share a relationship.
    • Pride And Prejudice: Mr Darcy frequently fixes his eyes on Elizabeth. She notices that he does that but concludes it's only because he thinks something is wrong or improper about her. Later in the story, Charlotte also notices Mr Darcy often gazes at Elizabeth. She thinks and hopes it could mean he admires her, but she also thinks it could only be that he's absent-minded.

    Live Action TV
    • The X Files, "Grotesque": Agent Mulder is sinking into darkness and madness when he's investigating a particularly difficult case with a copycat serial killer. His supervisor Skinner asks his partner how he deals.
      Skinner: Are you worried about him, Agent Scully?
      Scully: No, sir.
      Skinner: Off the record.
      (Scully doesn't answer. She just cocks her head and looks extremely sad.)
      Skinner: So am I.
    • Horatio Hornblower, second instalment "Mutiny" and "Retribution": Many characters exchange significant looks when they cannot say what they would like to. Usually it's because they are in front of their superiors and they cannot talk freely.
      • Lieutenants and best pals Horatio Hornblower and Archie Kennedy exchange lots of Meaningful Looks which express their dissatisfaction and disgust with the situation on their ship, commanded by paranoid and mentally unstable captain. They understand each other without words.
      • Styles and Matthews, most prominent lower deck characters, share a worried look when Captain Sawyer assigns Hornblower to serve 36 hours of continuous watch, and reminds him that when an officer is found asleep on watch, it means a death sentence.
      • Hornblower signals to 1st Lt. Buckland that he shouldn't interfere with Captain Sawyer and that he should carry out his order to arrest all the other lieutenants.
      • In the second part, "Retribution", Lt. Bush joins Hornblower and Kennedy in the fun. They start trading the looks which express their annoyance with Acting Captain Buckland's incompetence and lack of commanding abilities.
      • Their Spanish adversaries and prisoners, Senor and Senora Ortega share a look after they were forced to the unconditional surrender. We later find out its meaning. He wanted her to pull The Vamp and Femme Fatale. She pretended she was interested in having sex and killed one stupid Red Shirt, and the Spanish prisoners took over the ship.

  • April 27, 2013
    XFllo
    Somebody added this example to the launched page:

    Literature
    • The little girls in Zilpha Keatley Snyder's novels often give each other such looks, demonstrating the almost-ESP said girls experience when together. Ivy and Martha do this a few times in Literature/The Changeling, usually over the real-world confirmation of an element in their imaginary games. In The Egypt Game, April and Melanie look at each other this way when something strikes them as particularly appropriate for Egypt. Toby grouses that it's "like they have Siamese brains or something". When Pomma and Teera in the Green-Sky Trilogy do this, sometimes they actually are communicating telepathically.
  • April 27, 2013
    Melkior
    Film Live Action
    • The Newman / Redford classic The Sting has each con man arriving in Chicago casually flick his nose with his right index finger to signal that he's "in" on the plan to fleece Doyle Lonnegan.
    • True Lies features maverick agent Harry Tasker piloting a Harrier jet. His daughter is clinging to the nose cone (an improvised rescue) while the Big Bad stands on one wing with a pointed firearm. Harry rolls his eyes to his right as a signal to his daughter that he's going to roll the jet. The girl is ready for this move, and doesn't fall off; the Big Bad misses the signal and topples off the edge.
  • May 3, 2013
    Melkior
    I've added the page image I suggested from ElfQuest as I think it does a good job of illustrating the less obvious type of Meaningful Look which this trope page can be used for.

    I have a larger example showing the previous panel as well. I've shrunk it and added it to this page. Please compare with the single-panel example on the launched Meaningful Look page and comment on which is more appropriate.

    I've also edited the description a little to clarify the distinction between this trope and Facial Dialogue and I've removed the part about the look being noticed by an in-universe character.

    I'm moving examples from here which I think fit this trope onto the launched trope page. I think the Literature example is probably more a Facial Dialogue example and belongs on that page. If others agree, I'll move it there.

    I need to know what folder to place the example Homestruck in.

    I think this trope is very close to being ready for an "official" launch.
  • May 4, 2013
    XFllo
    I agree that now it's much better, though I would really like to hear what more tropers think and what they suggest. :-)

    Homestruck looks like a webcomic, at least that's where the link sent me.

    Um, about the image. I don't think it's a very good one, sorry. I'd recommend to take it to Image Pickin' forum and start a new conversation here. Perhaps other people will like it and approve:-) But I'd like to have there something more obvious.
  • May 4, 2013
    lexicon
    The title makes it sound like Held Gaze or Longing Look. Is it the super trope to those? Whatever it is they should be mentioned in the description.
  • May 4, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ Held Gaze and Longing Look are connected with love and relationships. These are more general and connected with communication. Though there might be some overlaps, e.g. those examples from Pride and Prejudice or Emma. What qualifies them as example if this trope is that the readers are not supposed to know for sure what they mean.
  • May 4, 2013
    Melkior
    X, I'm still debating the second meaning for Meaningful Look. Perhaps we need a composite image with two examples? Then the caption can say "two different types of Meaningful Look"?

    EDIT: I've swapped in the two-panel version for now, since it comes closer than the one-panel version to illustrating the trope. I'm not against completely substituting a new pic though. Image Pickin' forum discussion created.

    lex, I agree it needs some description text so tropers know where the separation is. My feeling is that Meaningful Look is a supertrope to both Held Gaze and Longing Look.
  • May 5, 2013
    WeAreAllKosh
    Literature

    • In The Handmaids Tale, when Offred pairs up with Ofglen on her errands to the market, there's a moment where the two exchange a quiet knowing look through their reflections on a shop window, where they first mutually communicate to each other that they are both dissenters to the theocratic order. This is seen poignantly in the film as well.
  • May 5, 2013
    XFllo
    ^^ I must say that I still don't understand what you mean by two kinds of this trope. Could you clarify it, best on examples?

    Cool, I saw you started a thread in Image Pickin'. Also, I sorted up examples on the page. The films and TV were mixed up together.
  • May 5, 2013
    Melkior
    What I mean by the two types:

    1. One type of Meaningful Look is from one character to another. The character "giving" the look is trying to communicate a message to the other character by facial expression instead of by words.

    2. The other type of Meaningful Look is from the artist to the audience, via a character. It's meant to give us as the audience a message from the work's author, usually about the character's attitudes, emotions or development as a person.

    Perhaps the page description needs to be changed to include this description of the two types of Meaningful Look? If one person is confused, there's likely to be more.

    I wouldn't be against creating a separate trope for type 2 and calling it by another name, although I can't think of a good, short and descriptive name at the moment.
  • May 5, 2013
    TheHandle
    • In Django Unchained, what precipitates the drama at the end of the film is Stephen noticing Django and Broomhilda's awareness of each other. "You know this nigger, don't you?"
  • May 5, 2013
    XFllo
    ^^ Ok, thank you. Perfectly clear now. (Don't mind me too much, I'm sometimes slow at getting things.) I don't see these two as separate tropes because it often works together, no?
  • May 6, 2013
    randomsurfer
    ^^^Would your second type be Aside Glance?
  • May 6, 2013
    Melkior
    randomsurfer, no. Read the description. An Aside Glance breaks the Fourth Wall while Meaningful Look never does.

    I've edited the launched page and this page to show the latest description version. I'm having trouble finding the markup to make a numbered list. Once that's done and presuming others agree, I'll add a hat since I think the trope will be ready for its "official" launch.
  • May 6, 2013
    Melkior
    Another issue is that I've noticed a few examples on the Facial Dialogue page which would probably be better described as a Meaningful Look. Should I move the examples which qualify? I haven't moved them yet because I want to wait until the trope is "officially launched".
  • May 6, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ Since the page was not cut, you can consider it "official":-) I'm not very tech savvy, but it could be good to later "launch" the trope as it would archive this discussion. I hope it won't clash with the existing page.

    I've noticed that, too, that some examples from Facial Dialogue would fit more to this trope. I would support the move.

    Check Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules, though I'm not sure the article is long enough to really require a numbered list.

    Also, Disapproving Look sounds like another sub-trope.
  • May 6, 2013
    Melkior
    For now, I've just updated the ykttw trope version from the launched page. It looks to me like it's time to launch the page. We can update the picture later if we find a better one.

    I'm not certain if I should "discard" or "launch". Does "launch" actually overwrite the current page with this page or does it leave the current page alone? Does "discard" erase this discussion? Do I need to erase the in-page notes before doing anything? If the current page won't be overwritten, then I'd "launch", otherwise it may be better to "discard".
  • May 7, 2013
    randomsurfer
    Basically all "launch" does is archive the ykttw and create a link to it on the discussion page. You'd still have to copy and paste the contents into the page proper (if it hadn't already been made). "Discard" erases this discussion.
  • May 9, 2013
    Melkior
    Thanks. Countdown: 10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=opuo1jazbhgef04j7r9ppg6e