Created By: ShanghaiSlave on August 28, 2013 Last Edited By: ShanghaiSlave on October 6, 2013
Nuked

Kaiju Killing Corps (Zero Context Ex help)

Giant creatures are invading, equip an army with hi-mobility equipment and counterattack!

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope

NOTE when adding examples: Please include details about their equipment, the creatures and the optional weapons. also, feel free to add potholes and expound on the existing examples.

Plot part in the description needs help.

Rolling Updates

There are other possible tropes here like: so what the hell do we do here?

Description:

Giant creatures have been attacking mankind for hundreds of years. Eventually, they have brought mankind to near extinction save for a few (or just one) strongholds. What's humanity to do?

Enter the Anti-Kaiju Mobile Attack Force. A special military (or paramilitary) unit dedicated to fighting off the invaders using state of the art, hi-mobility equipment and specialized weapons for targeting the enemies' weaknesses or capturing them for various purposes.

Also a Stock Plot, usually comes as a story about the struggle of a Badass Army (or a specific Unit, usuallyThe Squad) against the invaders, who will be of unknown origin and discovering their true nature and the motive behind their actions will be one of the main motivations in the story. Will also often invoke War Is Hell and have ordinary people Dying Like Animals. They may use Flight or Feather Motif, and have freedom as a common motif in the story.

A Military And Warfare Trope, subtrope of The Hunter. Compare with La Résistance, and contrast Torches and Pitchforks, both for when citizens take up arms against their fellow men with less advanced equipment.

Important elements for it to count:

  • Must involve Ensembles, otherwise, it's just The Hunter with a grappling hook/jetpack/Power Armor.
  • Must involve hi-mobility equipment for reaching the creatures' weak points, if there's any. Whether it's a Grappling Hook, Jetpacks, Power Armor, Mini-Mecha or a full on Humongous Mecha. Whether on Water, Land, Air, or Space; it counts. Non-flight capable bipedal mechas can only count if they were developed specifically for fighting the work's giant creatures. Not limited to actual machines or mechanical stuff; magic, flight, and other Stock Super Powers can work too as long as it involves movement.
  • The work's giant creatures need not to be that big. if the army fights them with wearable gear and the creatures are just about a few meters in size, then it still counts. If they fight with Humongous Mecha and the creatures are about the same size or bigger than the mechs, it counts.
  • The creatures don't need to be organic. Mechanical Lifeforms and Golems can count as well. The point is, our organization is hunting them for one reason or another, either (but not limited to) for defense or research.

Examples:

Anime and Manga

Film
  • Pacific Rim: Giant, city-destroying monsters (actually called "Kaiju" in-universe) emerge from a portal on the floor of the Pacific Ocean. The governments of the world realize that these Kaiju aren't going to stop coming, and that conventional weapons aren't suited to kill them without massive collateral damage. So the Jaeger program—consisting of Humongous Mecha, each piloted by two brain-linked humans—is created to deal with the threat.

  • The Matrix RevolutionsCaptain Mifune's unit with their Armored Personnel Unit vs the Sentinels. ZERO CONTEXT

Literature
  • Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers focuses on a war between humans and Big Creepy-Crawlies from outer space. The mobile infantry in the story uses power armor designed to enhance a soldier's strength and agility in order to combat the Insectoid Aliens. Averted in the film adaptation due to budget and technological constraints.


Indexes: Combat Tropes, Military and Warfare Tropes
Community Feedback Replies: 77
  • August 28, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    note: although Neon Genesis Evangelion involves mecha. they do not a have a signature weapon, so it cannot count. other Humongous Mecha shows involving kaiju like creatures also don't count as it's usually only one mecha. just wanted to mention that as basis, since it's plot kinda fit with tokyo 3 being the stronghold.
  • August 28, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ But the mechas are the special weapon? The EVA:s were specifically designed to fight against the Angels. Besides, it's not like the Jaegers of Pacific Rim have any kind of "signature weapons".
  • August 28, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    i haven't watched pacific rim so i just assumed they used only one kind of weapon. that is, their mecha alone with no additional weapons.

    so i guess eva can count then. but then eva's are usually tethered to power cables. so aren't really that mobile; there are very few pilots and piloting has certain requirements....but they are still very versatile and the pilots themselves are an ensemble.
  • August 28, 2013
    Chabal2
    I think "must have a signature weapon" is narrowing it down too much. After all, the EV As aren't supposed to be used against anything other than the Angels. Pacific Rim's mechas each have their own unique weapons.

    The free humans in The Matrix use large combat suits with heavy machine guns, foot troops have some kind of lightning gun.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    good point. even on the first examples, their "mobile equipment" is more prominent than their signature weapons. changing that. also, adding your example with a few modifications. it took me a while to figure out that you were referring to the people of Zion with their robot-suit thingies. though the ground troops don't count. but at least now i have a clearer description of what exactly this trope is supposed to be.

    also, should this be a subtrope of Alien Invasion? and also, ya guys might wanna pothole some examples and keywords. or not, that sounded rude.
  • August 29, 2013
    SharleeD
    Could this trope maybe be broadened to include specialty-troops that counter other kinds of giant threatening creatures, not just alien invaders? If so, it could encompass a wider variety of examples, e.g. the three-member Dino Capture teams from Zoo Tycoon 2 that tranquilize and crate rampaging dinosaurs.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ... it was my mistake to put "Alien Invasion" there in the first place. notice there was no mention of specific creatures save for the last "subtrope". so you're right, this is a troop trope. pardon the stupid pun. anyway, does that team have a specific hi-mobility equipment they use? cars don't count, these can't jump, planes however, can count, if they're specially equipped for fighting big creatures. if not, they don't count even if they're a specialty troop. as i'm sure there's countless of general "unit trope" for them.
  • August 29, 2013
    jamespolk
    Needs to have a name that is not Gratuitous Japanese.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    err, why? it's not like it means "kawaii", a quick google will tell you that it's a common loanword with specific connotations of representing stuff like Nukes or Gaias Vengeance, unlike ambiguous terms like "giant" or "monster". or even both. which would have been unwieldy either way.
  • August 29, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^^ Besides, even the page about this subject on This Very Wiki is named "Kaiju".

    EDIT (@OP): I think your description is still a bit too specific. This is basically about groups that are specifically trained and equipped to battle giant monsters, right? It's true these kinds of groups often have quite hi-tech equipment but I don't think you need to make it a requirement for them to qualify for this.

    If the members of the group are specifically trained and use tactics designed to battle the monsters, it doesn't really make much difference narrative-wise, whether they are equipped with exeptional weapons or not.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    Paradisesnake --hmm, you have a point. will probably work on that tomorrow. or if you want, you can go ahead and do it yourself. that's what the edit history is for.

    EDIT: there is mention of grappling hooks in the draft. would you call that exeptional?

    Attack On Titan uses those. and they're pretty much simply used for Not Quite Flight. actual fighting requires Le Parkour and some sick Spatial movement skills. so maybe as long as they have unique tactics they would count?
  • August 29, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ Yes, I'd say so. As far as I can see, the core aspect of this trope is that there's a group whose job is to destroy some kind of monsters. The special training and tactics are basically a given; if it's their job to fight the monsters, they'll probably figure out at some point how to do it most efficently.

    The specialized equipment is something they are very likely to have, but it's also quite easy to imagine a situation where the group only uses conventional weapons but instead knows how to use them against the monsters.

    For example, the monsters might have some kind of weak point that can still be destroyed by conventional weapons, but the group is just really good at finding that weak point. It would still mean that they are specialized in defeating the monsters even though their equipment is nothing special.
  • August 29, 2013
    KingZeal
    Can we call this Kaiju Killer? Or Kaiju Killing Corps?
  • August 29, 2013
    SharleeD
    • In the "Extinct Animals" or "Complete/Ultimate" editions of Zoo Tycoon 2, placing a Dino Capture Team ensures that rampaging dinosaurs will be crated automatically. The team consists of a laser-sight spotter to pinpoint the dino, a tranq-gunner to put it down, and a humanoid robot to run around and distract it from crushing the other two.

    Low-tech versions of this trope may employ the Gulliver Tie Down tactic.
  • August 29, 2013
    jamespolk
    @Shanghai Slave, the reason why is that a trope with general applications surely should not have a name known only to anime aficionados. Is "kaiju" easier to understand than "monster"? As for your suggestion regarding googling the trope name, well, if a trope name requires googling then it is a bad trope name.
  • August 29, 2013
    NESBoy
    • Ultraman: The Science Patrol vs. Kaiju and Alien Invasions. One episode towards the end of the series, titled "The Little Hero", had an interesting premise -- the usual comic relief, Ito, is losing faith in himself and the Science Patrol because they're always upstaged by the eponymous Ultraman towards the end of their missions. Ultraman decides to Throw The Dog A Bone by letting Ito finish off the Monster Of The Week himself.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    Paradisesnake -- hmm yeah, that's a pretty solid reason. however, the first examples(The Matrix, Strike Witches, Attack On Titan all use conventional weapons(swords and guns, cannons/heavy artillery) and use the "hi-tech gear" for moving around. hence why i removed Weapon Of Choice when someone suggested to trash it. if they were simply a squadron with different roles and equipment (someone shoots, someone acts as bait, someone drives, someone ties down the creature, etc.) then they would be The Squad or some other more generic trope. as that's how they usually work.

    but meh, i'll just edit it to fit that and see what happens. or not...

    King Zeal -- heyyy, Kaiju Killing Corps sound neat! gonna take note of that for the crowner.

    Sharlee D -- a team with specialized roles but no uniform equipment don't count. a similar group was suggested for The Matrix, since they had footmen who use Lightning Gun, but only the mech users count despite having the same role. but i guess i'll be adding that for now. or not.

    also, gonna add that tactic.

    jamespolk -- I could cite the same reason for changing Tzadikim Nistarim to The Hidden Righteous Ones. if it wasn't explained in the first line of the article i'd google it.

    NES Boy -- depends on how effective the science patrol is. otherwise, they're just some sort of organization against kaiju. i forgot the trope name, but there's something else for that. EDIT: probably Research Inc.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    now that i think of it. aren't there two tropes being described here?

    Creature Defense Organization (which would also cover my other YKTTW) under Military And Warfare Tropes/Organization Index and the said Kaiju Killing Corps under the former?
  • August 29, 2013
    SharleeD
    FWIW, The Squad seems to be more about the personal relationships and personality roles of a (para)military unit than about their actual battlefield functions. It's how they behave between battles, more than the tactics they use to fight, that distinguishes a Squad's members and makes them an ensemble cast rather than Mooks, after all.
  • August 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    Sharlee D - I just threw that in. as i'm not sure which exactly is the trope for a group of people with specific roles each. Plot Tailored To The Party counts. but probably not when they would naturally be tailored to the plot because the party were made to do so in the first place.
  • September 1, 2013
    reflaxion
    Blue Gender and Gantz seem to fit the bill for this - the former's Armor Shrikes and the latter's suits. Examples added.
  • September 1, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    No offense, but that Gantz example is a bit lacking, so I wrote a new one:

  • September 1, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ good call, replaced. the other examples could use expanding too.

    @other editors - if you'd like to expand some examples but you're not that familiar with the work, pray that it has a wiki and look it up. because as it is now, most stuff in this page are Zero Context Examples.
  • September 1, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ Heh, sorry but I was still editing my example. Took the liberty of editing the changed parts into the draft myself.

    EDIT: Here's some more context for the NGE example.

    • Neon Genesis Evangelion: NERV is an organization that uses EVA:s to fight an alien race known as the Angels. The reason Angels can't be destroyed by conventional weapons is because they sport AT-fields, Deflector Shields that can completely block even the explosive power of a multi-megaton bomb. The most efficent way to penetrate the AT-field is stated to be via close combat, for which the EVA:s use high-frequency vibrating "Progressive Knives". The EVA:s can even build up an AT-field of their own, and eventually it's revealed that the EVA:s are actually created by cloning them from the same source the Angels themselves were born.
  • September 1, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    oops. i edited everything. i'll check the history and re-add what you did.

    EDIT: i only see my edit history (this is probably normal o_O) so you'll have to re-add it yourself. sorry Orz
  • September 1, 2013
    DAN004
    This is more of a subtrope of The Squad than The Hunter, I think...
  • September 1, 2013
    jamespolk
    So am I really the only one in this thread that thinks this trope should have an easily understood English-language name, as opposed to Japanese fanspeak? Especially since this trope is not exclusive to Japanese media?
  • September 2, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    @Paradisesnake -- awesome. added, i cut my own edit on NGE as it was very late at night and i had to sleep since i have work @ around 8:00.

    DAN 004 -- well, the examples aren't all squads (see NGE). and they don't have to be actually squads, whole armies could count. like i mentioned in this thread, there are other possible tropes here like Creature Defense Organization (what they are sans equipment), Kaiju Killing Corps (what they are right now), and if one really insist on squads: Highly Mobile Patrol Squad (KKC sans The Hunter part, which would make Metalbending Police Force count)

    jamespolk -- probably, why not suggest something instead? or does Zilla Killa(sounds like some nerdcore hiphop band...) sound good to you?
  • September 2, 2013
    DAN004
  • September 2, 2013
    reflaxion
    Added Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann to the examples.

    While this trope isn't exclusive to Japanese media, given the examples so far, it does seem to apply mostly to that genre. I think the name is fine.
  • September 3, 2013
    reflaxion
    Starship Troopers added. I had no idea this fit the trope at first. I found it doing a Wiki Walk while thinking about this article. I learned something today.
  • September 3, 2013
    jamespolk
    @Shanghai Slave, Zilla Killa is pretty good.
  • September 3, 2013
    JonnyB
    I remember some of the old Godzilla movies had the Japanese army come out with truck-mounted ray guns and stuff, would that count?
  • September 8, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    woah, late reply.

    @jamespolk -- eh... i hope you're joking. because that's the silliest name i can think of.

    @DAN 004 -- xenomorphs make me think of the xenomorphs from Alien, which don't even come close to huge, AFAIK, and can also confuse people.

    @Jonny B -- given it's from godzilla, i'm guessing they were just mere nuisance, so no. the troops have to be competent and "dressed to kill". that is, they have a Weapon Of Choice... that doesn't have to be a weapon. just something that helps them outmaneuver the creatures.
  • September 8, 2013
    DAN004
    "Xenomorphs" in this case refers to any kind of alien being that often terrorizes humans. Basically a more antiquated version of "monster".

    And I don't think this has to involve Kaiju...
  • September 8, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    yeah... no. checked The Other Wiki, it does not have such connotations.

    • Xenomorph -- scanned the page a bit, they apparently terrorize any living thing it sees as a threat, so too broad. and the name literally means "strange shape(or form, if you prefer)". and is pretty long. and in pop-culture usually refers exclusively to the titular aliens of that franchise. hell things can be described as xenomorph-like if it has a jawful of fangs and HR-Giger-esque design.
    • Kaiju -- it's right there in the first paragraph, "Kaiju is a Japanese word that literally translates to "strange creature"..." going further "...Kaiju films usually showcase monsters of any form attacking a major Japanese city or engaging another (or multiple) monsters in battle."
  • September 8, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    Sheesh, just drop it already. As I said earlier, our own page on giant monsters is named Kaiju, so there's really no problem with the term.
  • September 9, 2013
    arbiter099
    All of these restrictions make no sense to me. Isn't the basic convention of fiction here "specialized force deployed and dedicated to fighting giant monsters?" Why impose so many limits and nit-picking?

    Bullet point 2 is especially naggling. By those rules, a work where Japan's best defense was an array of giant laser cannons designed to blast concentrated phlebotinium manned by teams of super Sentai anti-monster swat ninjas because they're the best is disqualified on grounds of letting Godzilla get to them before they fight back. As I see it, mobility has nothing to do with this.

    Why does the equipment matter? That's splitting hairs. I have 2 visions for the forms the groups that would fall under this trope most commonly appear in: the Red Shirt Armies that get crushed after a Five Rounds Rapid sequence (to demonstrate that this Monster Of The Week is bad enough to take on NERVE and come out on top, what hope does our hero have?) and the more successful ones that the hero is probably a big part of.
  • September 9, 2013
    DAN004
    ^ Maybe he just want to prove that the so many limits there comes surprisingly more often than you'll imagine.

    I don't 100% believe in that, though...
  • September 9, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ -- it's not that common. but as it is now. a few examples spread out on a few media is plenty. if it were only found in comics or anime yeah, i'd say it would be too restrictive myself.

    ^^ 1. yes, i also mentioned this could possibly be just Creature Hunting Organization (noticed it the moment people complained on the restrictions, which i don't actually mind). which also removes the "giant" part. and you got yourself a broad- trope.

    2. yep. also because your example is an obvious strawman. i could think of a better example: same army except they use amphibious planes. suddenly they count.

    3. one of the current examples already have those, Attack On Titan has both, The Matrix, too (only the former form you mentioned). not sure about the rest.

    one more: 2 of the examples here (Sky Girls and Strike Witches) are basically airplane pilots (who wear "airplanes" rather than pilot them) who engage giant flying creatures in dog fights.
  • September 9, 2013
    arbiter099
    It was meant to be more Refuge In Audacity but I was tired and adding more extreme things to it wasn't getting through the part of my brain that does that thing where I make words sound pretty.

    I don't think we have a general "these people battle monsters" trope other than The Hunter and I think this is good ground for a supertrope, possibly with a military subtrope if that's common enough.
  • September 9, 2013
    nitrokitty
    Not to be confused with Kaiju Defense Force, which is our Useful Notes page on the JSDF.
  • September 10, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^^ i see. and good point. so anyway, are we all already discussing what exactly should be done with this YTTW (zap the prerequisites, make it general, etc.) or must we all continue arguing about the term Kaiju or specifics? not referring to you only, obviously.

    ^ that's actually why i used the term kaiju in the first place. :D gonna add that if it does get greenlighted as a trope about killing kaiju.
  • September 13, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
  • September 14, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
  • September 14, 2013
    DAN004
    I suggest making a cleaner and less crowdy description, sir.
  • September 19, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    I'm not sure what makes it "crowdy" so i just moved stuff around. the description proper is pretty short without all the requisites info.

    I still wanna know what i actually have to do here though. that's why i bumped it.
  • September 20, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
  • September 27, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    YKTTW Bump. come on, it's not like i'm asking people to rewrite this for me.
  • September 27, 2013
    reflaxion
    Not sure how much detail you really need on the examples - but here's my rewrite on Blue Gender. Take it if you like it.

  • September 27, 2013
    reflaxion
    Added example: Claymore. I figured it was about time to use the "doesn't have to be mechanical" caveat.
  • September 27, 2013
    reflaxion
    I think the Power Rangers franchise might be able to give you some non-anime/manga examples, but I'm not familiar enough with the source to write one.
  • September 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    reflaxion

    • that description great. thanks.
    • I had no idea claymores battled giants. o_O then again, i forgot about the mechs in The Matrix too.
    • Sentai stuff probably won't count even if you could give examples. considering it's not their main schtick, as they also battle smaller mooks on foot afaik. not like in Evangelion or Pacific Rim.

    anyway. still thinking about merging this with my other YKTTW.

    as someone already pointed out, this all boils down to

    "Who You Gonna Call (sans masquerade/paranormal prerequisite) for specific creatures with certain weaknesses (Attack Its Weak PointWeaponof X SlayingAnti True Sight)."
  • September 29, 2013
    nitrokitty
    I really think this needs a rename, its too similar to Kaiju Defense Force.
  • September 29, 2013
    reflaxion
    It helps the YKTTW's cause that Kaiju Defense Force isn't even a real trope. I like Kaiju Attack Squad, which I just thought of myself.

    Re: Claymore: It isn't nearly as prevalent in the anime (to the point where it probably wouldn't work), but in the manga, the Sorting Algorithm Of Evil really does a number on things. Compare the first Awakened Being encounter here to a recent chapter here (spoilers). Although I did forget about The Reveal - I should edit. There will be spoilers.
  • September 30, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^^ that's kinda the point. and that article's description doesn't even mention kaiju once, so it's safe i guess. also, has anyone actually noticed the merging issue?

    ^ sounds more like "a bunch of Kaiju as an Attack Animal team" to me.

    @claymore, ah, i see.
  • September 30, 2013
    reflaxion
    Anti-Kaiju Attack Squad?
  • September 30, 2013
    DAN004
    ^ Liking that.

    BTW I've done some fixing in formatting.
  • October 2, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^^ gonna take note of that. i like the current name so we're gonna have to vote for it.

    ^thanks
    by the way, the "alternate names" above the YKTTW are not supposed to be trope names, but but possible rewrites and related tropes. my mistake. so in other words

    i'm asking if this should be expanded or not.

    considering the previous mentions of this being too overly specific, and i agree, even if does get launched soon it'd still be Too Rare To Trope.
  • October 2, 2013
    reflaxion
    I don't know if I agree that it's Too Rare To Trope. We have plenty of examples, and I don't think "specialized combat troops fighting giant monsters" is coincidental or meaningless.
  • October 3, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ah, damn my not being a native english speakerness!

    what i mean is that i can already see it not thriving because of how narrow it is.

    yes, there is a pattern (and even common plot elements) but it's not that common yet.

    generalizing its definition to "people trained/equipped to exploit monsters weaknesses in battle" greatly broadens it scope.

    however, given this is seems to be a pretty solid (if rare) trope, it would still be in its separate section if we were to generalize this.
  • October 3, 2013
    MetaFour
    More context for Pacific Rim.

    • Pacific Rim: Giant, city-destroying monsters (actually called "Kaiju" in-universe) emerge from a portal on the floor of the Pacific Ocean. The governments of the world realize that these Kaiju aren't going to stop coming, and that conventional weapons aren't suited to kill them without massive collateral damage. So the Jaeger program—consisting of Humongous Mecha, each piloted by two brain-linked humans—is created to deal with the threat.
  • October 4, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ awesome, added.
  • October 4, 2013
    hbi2k
    This trope seems to have some serious identity problems. From the first line:

    "Giant creatures have been attacking mankind for hundreds of years."

    Is it important that the creatures have been attacking for hundreds of years as opposed to, say, a decade? If it's not, this line needs to change, because as the first thing the reader sees, it colors everything that comes after.

    The Claymore example is problematic because they were formed specifically to fight yoma, which are not kaiju but human-sized demons or monsters. IIRC the Awakened Ones came later and were not what they were specially designed / trained to fight. Also, their most signature advantage is not specialized equipment but bioaugmentation.

    The Gurren Lagann example is problematic because the enemies they fight are human-sized beastmen in giant mecha of their own. So it's not mecha vs. giant monster like Evangelion or Pacific Rim, it's mecha vs. mecha.

    I think both those examples should be dropped unless the trope description is radically rewritten in such a way as to include them or the example descriptions are rewritten to make it clearer how they apply.

    I think the thing that makes the most sense is to think of this trope as Who You Gonna Call except for kaiju instead of supernatural threats.

    I think the paragraph about equipment / powers should be rewritten to de-emphasize mobility specifically and emphasize that it is in some way specialized to fight giant creatures. That could mean mobility, that could mean targeting a weak point, or that could mean (as in the Pacific Rim example) functionally sizing-up humans to fight the monsters hand-to-hand. Specialization is the key. Giant mecha in a setting where giant mecha make up the majority of any given nation's conventional forces and are used for standard human vs. human warfare wouldn't count. A squad of giant mecha that fire Depleted Phlebotinum Shells specifically designed to target a monster's Kryptonite Factor, or a setting in which they were designed for the express purpose of fighting giant monsters (a la Pacific Rim), would count.

    As for names, I like Kaiju Killer Corps but agree that it's too close to Kaiju Defense Force for comfort. If we want to use it I think we should seriously consider starting the process of renaming Kaiju Defense Force, since as it stands it has little or nothing to do with defending against Kaiju and should probably be called Japan Self Defense Force (the actual name of the organization in question).

    Otherwise, I think something like Giant Monster Defense Force works fine.
  • October 4, 2013
    reflaxion
    Geez. I'm pretty sure it's Pick On Me Day in YKTTW World today. This is something like the fourth time I've had to defend my examples. I swear, this never happens to me.

    The Claymore example is justified behind the spoiler tag. Also, OP has already specified that the enhancements don't have to be technological in nature.

    For the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann example, OP has stated that the giant creatures don't need to be organic in nature. I'm pretty sure that also covers mecha. If the problem is that the mecha are human-controlled, then you'll have to strike down Attack On Titan too (and I apologize to anyone who just got a faceful of spoilers there, but it wouldn't make much sense spoiler-tagging a key part of the sentence).
  • October 4, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ Your point on Attack On Titan is irrelevant. It's the 3D Maneuver Gear that plays the role of the equipment in the example, and the titans are the monters being fought against.
  • October 4, 2013
    reflaxion
    The Titans are all piloted by humans.
  • October 4, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ I know that. But in this case for a work to qualify for this trope it needs to have 1. giant monsters, and 2. specially trained people using some kind of equipment to fight these monsters.

    You say that the Attack On Titan example wouldn't count on the basis that the titans are living creatures and not actually a form of technology. This makes no sense because the example is phrased so that the 3D Maneuver Gear holds the role of the technology part and the titans are the monsters being fought against.

    So what I'm trying to say is that Attack on Titan qualifies no matter what you think about the role of the titans in the series.
  • October 4, 2013
    reflaxion
    I don't think you get it. The argument against Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was that the humans were fighting against other mecha, being piloted by creatures the same size as them. I said that if that's a problem, then Attack On Titan doesn't work, because it's the same thing.

    I am not trying to argue against Ao T. I think it's a fine example. I am trying to understand why people don't think TTGL works, when it's a very similar concept. The only real differences are that 1) the giant forms of the enemies in TTGL are mecha (which falls under the "doesn't have to be organic" clause, in my opinion) and 2) the protagonists use the enemy's own mecha against them (which has support in the statement "If they fight with Humongous Mecha and the creatures are about the same size or bigger than the mechs, it counts").

    Bottom line is, humans are using some kind of equipment (stolen mecha) to combat giant monsters that have been terrorizing them (other mecha). I don't see the problem.
  • October 4, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ Fair enough, but did they actually design their mechas to battle other mechas or did they just Gundamjack/reverse engineer them? If the mechas were not created this purpose in mind, I don't think your example qualifies anyway.
  • October 4, 2013
    reflaxion
    That's a fair point. The gunmen were initially repurposed to fight Anti-Spirals, not each other, so the example could still work if the Anti-Spirals are considered to be giant monsters in this example (although they're more like Eldritch Abominations). What do you think?
  • October 4, 2013
    hbi2k
    If this trope includes all examples of giant mecha created to fight other giant mecha, then it's VERY broad and overlaps with other giant mecha tropes to a large extent. I guess it depends on how you define Kaiju, but neither the beastmen of Gurren Lagann nor anything about Claymore show up as examples on the Kaiju page. Of course, neither do the Titans of Ao T, but that's pretty obviously an oversight since the show's so new. I'll leave it to someone who's more familiar with the show to add it in the example list there if they care to do so.

    Going to have to recuse myself from further Ao T discussion since I'm still in the middle of watching the series, and I didn't finish Claymore so I'll have to take your word on that one.
  • October 4, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^^ That's a tough one. As far as I can see, this trope requires a very specific situation for it to fully materialize: a group of people specifically trained and equipped to fight some kind of threat, i.e. there's a sort of group dynamic required here.

    I'm not familiar with the work in question, but since the plot seems to focus (at least at first) on the conflict between the mechas, I guess the relevant question would be: does the plot give the same kind of focus on the battle against the Anti-Spirals?

    If the mechas are modified to fight the new threat, in my opinion they qualify for the equipment part, but do the characters group up to form an organized group/defence force or the like with a fitting training to fight the Eldritch Abominations in question? If so, then I at least think the work qualifies (though for what I know, the OP might think otherwise).
  • October 4, 2013
    reflaxion
    It could work, but it's starting to feel like Square Peg Round Trope at this point. It's ambiguous enough that it might be better to kill the example.
  • October 4, 2013
    hbi2k
    I have a hard time seeing the Anti-Spirals as Kaiju. Arguably Eldritch Abominations, but closer to Sufficiently Advanced Aliens and/or Energy Beings.

    And the beastmen definitely aren't Kaiju. They're an army, an organized force with ranks that comes from a species (or several species, it's not clear) with a society and culture (such as it is). The Horde with a side of Proud Warrior Race Guy. Your typical Kaiju, even if it's not unintelligent, is more like a force of nature bent on destruction, not something you could sit down and have a conversation with.
  • October 4, 2013
    reflaxion
    Example removed. Posted here for reference:

  • October 5, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^good call. hbi2k has a point. the "organized sentient army" part does disqualify it. not all titans are sentient.

    @hbi2k

    i realize the problem, hence why i am repeatedly asking on whether this should be expanded or not. which is also why i'm not doing any major edits to the description yet. also, "Giant Monster'' sounds too academic for my taste.

    and again, the closeness to Kaiju Defense Force was the original intent of having kaiju in the title in the first place. also because of the words connotations (i.e. a giant monster that attacks places). not that it's a bad name, if it must be considered, it will have to be through vote.

    @claymore, they were originally made to fight yoma, who are small, yes, but their bioaugmentation and the giant yomas make them count. but as you've already stated, this trope has identity issues at the moment. i'm gonna have to take it in the forums...
    EDIT: err, take it to Ask The Tropers.
    EDIT 10/21/2013

    please do PM/email me before you decide to grab this.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=ogc8o4x6q1bu4ayu50ddyytt