Created By: DrakeClawfang on September 25, 2013 Last Edited By: JustaUsername on May 24, 2014
Troped

Magically Inept Fighter - Launching Soon!

A physically-inclined combatant who is weak in terms of magic powers.

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Physical bruisers will tend to have limited prowess with magic, if they can even cast spells at all. This character is an absolute monster when you challenge them to a melee fight, but they're likely to have trouble against magic users (unless they are a Mage Killer).

Justifications for this vary. Sometimes martial and magical prowess are not mutually exclusive by nature, but seldom go together because both take so much specialized training that few have the time and talent to master both. Sometimes it's enforced because Armor and Magic Don't Mix, so warriors would rather not waste time learning spells that they won't be able to use while armored. Or maybe the magic-users in a given setting embrace a philosophy of Technical Pacifism that would be at odds with training to disembowel their enemies. Or maybe there's no in-story justification at all, which can lead to the Fridge Logic that if there is no major barrier between learning both the martial and arcane arts, why this character hasn't brushed up on their magic skills?

Regardless, in games the real reason tends to be Competitive Balance, although if the balance is poorly implemented, Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards can happen.

This trope is only applicable in settings where it is commonplace for characters to have Functional Magic, Psychic Powers or other supernatural abilities. If only a few people or no one has supernatural abilities in a work, then a character's lack of aptitude in the supernatural arts is not notable since, logically, pretty much no one has aptitude with the art to begin with.

Contrast Squishy Wizard, which has strong magic but weak physical skills, and Magic Knight, which is skilled with both weapons and magic. Compare Badass Normal, Un-Sorcerer.


Examples

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    Anime & Manga 
  • Kamijou Touma of A Certain Magical Index is completely unable to use magic because of his Imagine Breaker arm. So he simply punches his enemies to submission, magicians or espers alike, regardless of power level.
  • Kenpachi Zaraki of Bleach is a physical powerhouse, able to defeat almost any opponent he faces with his overwhelming strength, but he is completely unable to tap into the higher-level zanpakuto abilities that the other Gotei 13 captains use on a regular basis. He also doesn't have access to Kido spells (though it may simply be hard to learn in the first place, as Ichigo and Renji also lack it).
  • Kuzumi Taiga of Mx0 is a normal high school student who accidentally earned a reputation at Wizarding School Seinagi Academy as a high-level magic user, despite being completely unable to use magic himself. While he is generally able to compete with his classmates and maintain this illusion with quick wits, sometimes he is forced to rely on his brute strength, which is much greater than his peers due to being forced to train in martial arts with his sister.
  • Rock Lee of Naruto is incapable of any ninjutsu or genjutsu (both requires good chakra control), so he focuses on taijutsu (martial arts) instead. Downplayed by his mentor Might Guy: He can do some ninjutsu (Summon Magic, for example) but he simply prefers to use his fists and legs.
  • Fang-Fang Huang of Rosario + Vampire originally thinks of himself as a magic Summon Master, but eventually learns that he is more suited to physical combat since his summoning is random and rarely, if ever helpful. He does end up in a Battle Couple with an actual magic user, though.

    Literature 
  • Downplayed with Hagrid from Harry Potter. He is a half-giant who was expelled from the wizard school Hogwarts and not allowed to use magic by the Ministry (on top of his wand getting broken). Despite this, he can still cast spells with a piece of his wand hidden in his umbrella, but he has to rely much more on physical strength than the rest of the cast when it comes to fighting. Being resistant to magic thanks to his heritage helps, too.
  • In the Myth Adventures series Aahz is a Pervect wizard who, due to a spell cast by another wizard just before he died of unrelated causes, can't actually do any magic. Fortunately he's big and tough, and he still has the knowledge to school his apprentice Skeeve in the art of magic too.

    Tabletop Games 
  • In Dungeons & Dragons this is a recurring theme. Physically inclined classes like Fighters and Monks will have powerful physical attacks but no magic.
  • Warhammer and Warhammer 40K. Khorne, Chaos god of war, sees magic as a tool for cowards and traitors (his opposite god Tzeentch is the god of magic and backstabbers, so...), and so is the only one without a list of spells, but his followers are very strong physical fighters (when not The Berserker), and his 40K champion is immune to magic. Magical items and weapons, however, are acceptable.

    Video Games 
  • Katt from Breath of Fire II is a subversion. She starts off as a physical damage based Glass Cannon. However, she begins to learn high level magic quite early, but doesn't have enough AP to use it until the higher levels (or if she's fused with the right shamans).
  • Ayla from Chrono Trigger is one of the two characters that cannot learn magic, and the other one (Robo) has futuristic weapons that simulate magic pretty well. Ayla will typically be your strongest physical attacker.
  • Dawn of War, powerful melee units tend to have very bad ranged attacks when they have them at all (Berserkers, Nobs, Assault Terminators) while ranged units don't last long at all in melee (Fire Warriors, Guardsmen). Terminators and Obliterators were an exception, but were nerfed in following games to follow this trend.
  • In the Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi series, characters who either existed before Ki Attacks became common in the source material (such as Yajirobe, Nam, or Great Ape Kid Goku) or rely primarily on brute strength (such as Videl or Spopovich) have little to no ki-based abilities; Many of them cannot fly, and their standard ki blast either has an incredibly slow firing rate or is just throwing weak rocks at the opponent instead. Note that in this series, flight and ki blasts are abilities that are so ingrained into most of the cast as to be a basic game mechanic.
  • Zigzagged in Dragon Quest IX, classes like the Warrior and Gladiator never learn any spells. however, the Job System lets you keep the passive stat boosts earned from one job to another, so a warrior can end up being a powerful mage.
  • Elsword. 5 of 9 characters, by default, excel in physical power (Elsword, Raven, Chung, Ara and Elesis) and they have little magical power and defense as a result. In particular, it is mentioned that Elsword's weakest point is indeed at magic (whereas the other four can have some decent, but still not impressive, magical attacks). They can advance either to a purely physical class that plays with this even straighter, or a class that develops their magic power instead, subverting this trope.
  • In EverQuest, Warriors, Monks, Rogues, and Berserkers don't have a mana bar. Every other class does, and uses some form of spells in their arsenal.
  • Final Fantasy
    • In general, throughout the series physically-inclined characters like Monks, Dragoons, Warriors and Paladins will have no magical ability, and low Magic if they are somehow able to learn spells.
    • In Final Fantasy V, the boss guarding the spell Holy, the Minotaur, is physically very powerful, having the same Strength stat as the final boss, but it can only attack without magic. At the end of the battle, it tries to use Holy on the player, and actually is unable to use the spell is was guarding in the first place due to being so physically focused!
    • Subverted for Ramza in Final Fantasy Tactics. his default job in the game is The Squire— albeit one with unique abilitiesnote  and more balanced stats. like other squires, there are no magic based skills for him to learn... except one, which can be learned a la Blue Mage by getting hit by it... a method never hinted at anywhere in the game. so you can spend the entire game without any magic for ramza's squire job.
    • Dissidia: Final Fantasy, most heavy-hitters like Garland, Cloud, Jecht, and Gabranth, have a variety of close-range physical moves, and one or two ranged magical moves mostly to keep them from being entirely helpless against evasive opponents.
  • Arche from Fortune Summoners spends the majority of the game without a single spell. And she only gets two magical moves by the end of the game and she still aren't allowed in magic class. But she more than compensates for this with her sword skills.
  • Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep, Terra has strong offensive attacks but weak magic, and most of his exclusive skills are physical attacks.
  • Chie in Persona 4 has the highest physical attack, but weak magic (and doesn't learn as many advanced ice spells as Teddie, even though she uses the same element). Most of her strongest persona abilities are physical attacks (which Cast from Hit Points) and physical buffs. Additionally, Kanji gets the higher-level Electricity spells, but his Magic stat is so abysmal he doesn't really perform better than Chie at magic.
  • Pokémon, attacks are classified as either working off of Attack or Special Attack. Many Pokemon excel in one stat but are lacking in the other, thus limiting their versatility.
  • StarCraft, the strongest units in terms of offensive power usually don't have any special abilities, such as the Battlecruiser, Archon, Siege Tank, or Ultralisk.
  • Super Mario RPG, Bowser is a Mighty Glacier with high attack and defense, but awful magic attacks.
  • Warcraft III, the strongest melee units (Abominations, Tauren, Knights) only have one passive ability (the Abomination has an active one to restore health). The Druid of the Claw isn't as strong as the others, but has more abilities to make up for it.
  • World of Mana


Community Feedback Replies: 106
  • September 25, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    To make it clear, the intent of this trope is to provide a direct sister trope to the Squishy Wizard, if the description and title are not up to snuff explaining. I'm aware the trope name is awful, I am very open to suggestions.
  • September 25, 2013
    zarpaulus
    Also compare Magic Knight, who is more or less equally capable with magic and weapons.
  • September 25, 2013
    Chabal2
    • Dawn Of War: Powerful melee units tend to have very bad ranged attacks when they have them at all (Berserkers, Nobs, Assault Terminators) while ranged units don't last long at all in melee (Fire Warriors, Guardsmen). Terminators and Obliterators were an exception, but were nerfed in following games to follow this trend.
    • Warcraft III: The strongest melee units (Abominations, Tauren, Knights) only have one passive ability (the Abomination has an active one to restore health). The Druid of the Claw isn't as strong as the others, but has more abilities to make up for it.
    • Zigzagged in Dragon Quest IX: Classes like the Warrior and Gladiator never learn any spells. however, the Job System lets you keep the passive stat boosts earned from one job to another, so a warrior can end up being a powerful mage.
    • Super Smash Bros: Only a few characters have ranged attacks, and those tend to either be weak or take a long time to charge.
  • September 26, 2013
    Snicka
    The title can be misunderstood as a setting where melee combat is portrayed more powerful than magic.
  • September 26, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    ^^ I'm not sure how SSB counts

    ^Yes, why it's tagged as needing a better name
  • September 26, 2013
    DAN004
  • September 26, 2013
    DAN004
    Does this count?
    • Rock Lee of Naruto is incapable of any ninjutsu or genjutsu (both requires good chakra control), so he focuses on taijutsu (martial arts) instead. Downplayed by his mentor Might Guy: He can do some ninjutsu (Summon Magic, for example) but he simply prefers to use his fists and legs.
  • September 26, 2013
    Bisected8
    • Chie in Persona 4 has the highest physical attack, but weak magic (and doesn't learn as many advanced ice spells as Teddie, even though she uses the same element). Most of her strongest persona abilities are physical attacks (which Cast From Hit Points) and physical buffs.

    Also, for a name, what about; Mundane Fighter (as a counterpart for Squishy Wizard) or Mundane Muscleman (for Added Alliterative Appeal)?
  • September 26, 2013
    Snicka
  • September 26, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    misunderstood Strong Sword Weak Wand as the inversion Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards.

    i guess Warriors Cannot Do Magic works? snowclones Writers Cannot Do Math, but hey, wizards are associated with math, and the Penis Mightier than the Sword...
  • September 26, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    Mundane Fighter or Magically Inept Brute could work I think. Also given the Naruto example, tweaked description to not focus on the game applications.
  • September 26, 2013
    Snicka
  • September 26, 2013
    Earnest
    Maybe Magicless Meat Shield?

    See also Competitive Balance, which tends to enforce both tropes to keep any one character from being blandly uberpowerful.

    It may be worth noting that heroes or PC's usually Subvert both this trope and Squishy Wizard, being able to "multiclass" as a Magic Knight where no one else in the party or setting can. Except for maybe the Big Bad.
  • September 26, 2013
    Snicka
    Magicless Meat Shield sounds good. Or, alternatively Magicless Muscle.
  • September 26, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    I like that one, implimented. Thank you.
  • September 26, 2013
    Knight9910
    I don't really have any examples to add, but I did want to say: instead of saying "Compare Squishy Wizard" you should probably say "Contrast Squishy Wizard". Or, even better than that, "The inverse of this is Squishy Wizard."
  • September 27, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    going to have to disagree with titles including "muscle" or "brute" for this. those are established term here referring to large, muscular characters. this one's not just about "brutes who can handle big sticks but not wands" but "any melee fighter who's not much use outside melee" from the accepted examples.
  • September 27, 2013
    DAN004
    Dunno, Magicless Muscle sounds... too plain.

    I'm upping Magically Inept Fighter (may change Fighter with Warrior) since I think it needs emphasis on "unable to do magic/weak to magic" thing.
  • September 27, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    I'll go with MIF then. :)
  • September 27, 2013
    reflaxion
    Added example: Bleach.
  • September 27, 2013
    Snicka
    ^^^ For me, Magically Inept Fighter sounds more plain than Magicless Muscle, which has Added Alliterative Appeal.
  • September 27, 2013
    Stratadrake
    If this is about the balance and not the fighter, what about Magic Vs Muscle or something along that line?
  • September 27, 2013
    DAN004
    ^^ I linked People Sit On Chairs for a reason. Lots of fighting game characters in a mundane setting (Tekken, Virtua Fighter etc) are Magicless Muscle. See what I mean? My "plain" refers to the meaning of the title, not the aesthetic of it.

    ^ Magic Vs Muscle would cover both this and Squishy Wizard, I think. I'm not sure if I'm gonna lump them both, tho...
  • September 27, 2013
    randomsurfer
    For a long time Superman had an explicit weakness to magic. I haven't been following his adventures lately though so I don't know if that still applies to the New52 version of Supes.
  • September 28, 2013
    Snicka
    ^^ Ah, I see. So the problem with Magicless Muscle is that the name doesn't make clear that it is a melee fighter in a setting where other characters have magical powers.
  • September 28, 2013
    reflaxion
    The Superman example doesn't work. Having a weakness to magic isn't the same as being particularly inept at it compared to peers.
  • September 28, 2013
    TrueShadow1
    • Adding to the Persona4 example, we also have Kanji. He still gets the higher-level Electricity spells, but his Magic stat is so abysmal he doesn't really perform better than Chie at magic.

  • September 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    does anti magic count?

    Anime & Manga

  • September 29, 2013
    DRCEQ
    In Ever Quest, Warriors, Monks, Rogues, and Berserkers don't have a mana bar. Every other class does, and uses some form of spells in their arsenal.
  • September 29, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    under Final Fantasy
    • averted for Ramza in Final Fantasy Tactics. as he is the Jack Of All Stats as a Squire, whose skills are basic stuff like stone throwing and tackling attacks. relevant, as there's only his stats, unique non-magical self buff skills(Scream/Shout - which raises his speed, magic/phys. attack, brave all at once), and ability to equip certain equipment that sets him apart from regular squires, which do not have magic based skills. he does have the secret spell Ultima though, which justifies the high magic stat.
  • September 29, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    I don't think aversions need to be noted for this trope, that would make one more a Magic Knight in such cases.
  • September 30, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ my example is not a Magic Knight. or at least a heavily downplayed one (or this trope downplayed). as to count as a Magic Knight, he has to actually have a pool of magic spells alongside physical skills. a single, easily missable spell disqualifies him from that trope IMO.
  • September 30, 2013
    DAN004
    Often people who are Un Sorcerer will develop physical strength to compensate, leading to this trope.

    Compare Badass Normal.
  • September 30, 2013
    JustaUsername
    I think we shouldn't link this trope to archery and other physical ranged attacks, otherwise it might become too similar to Close Range Combatant.
  • September 30, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    Ah, didn't know about that trope. Agreed and fixed :)
  • October 1, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    So, anything else to be done or are we good for hat counting now? :)
  • October 2, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    bump
  • October 2, 2013
    hbi2k
    It might seem like it should go without saying, but for clarity's sake I think it should be noted somewhere in the description that this trope is limited to settings where someone might be EXPECTED to have a certain amount of magical knowledge/skill. Otherwise Mohammed Ali would count.
  • October 2, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    Agreed, will add now.
  • October 2, 2013
    RandomSurfer
    Literature: In the Myth Adventures series Aahz is a Pervect wizard who, due to a spell cast by another wizard just before he died of unrelated causes, can't actually do any magic. Fortunately he's big and tough, and he still has the knowledge to school his apprentice Skeeve in the art of magic.
  • October 3, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    Not sure if that counts, does he fight a lot and rely primarily on physical strength?
  • October 3, 2013
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ from how he describes it the character can't do magic anymore, but still knows how to do it, so probably yeah.
  • October 3, 2013
    DAN004
    ^ That'll be a double subversion.
  • October 3, 2013
    Snicka
    Another Literature example:

    • Hagrid from Harry Potter is a half-giant who was expelled from the wizard school Hogwarts and had his wand broken, so he's not allowed to use magic. Despite this, he can still cast spells with a piece of his wand hidden in his umbrella, but he has to rely much more on physical strength than the rest of the cast when it comes to fighting.
  • October 3, 2013
    reflaxion
    Not sure how this one works out - you be the judge:

    Anime/Manga
    • Kuzumi Taiga of Mx0 is a normal high school student who accidentally earned a reputation at Wizarding School Seinagi Academy as a high-level magic user. While he is generally able to compete with his classmates and maintain this illusion with quick wits, sometimes he is forced to rely on his brute strength, which is much greater than his peers due to being forced to train in martial arts with his sister.
  • October 3, 2013
    hbi2k
    Not sure if the Hagrid example counts. He's unskilled in magic because he never completed his training and is working with inferior tools, but there's nothing indicating that he is unskilled BECAUSE of his great physical strength. If anything, the fact that he can cast spells with a broken wand at all (something no other character is seen to do) marks him as something of a prodigy.
  • October 3, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    I'm not sure Hagrid counts either, if he still has and uses magic regularly.

    The Mx0 one, is the character a very weak magician, or just weaker than his reputation?
  • October 3, 2013
    DAN004
    ^ I guess that Mx0 one doesn't count... he's pretty much a Kung Fu Wizard.
  • October 3, 2013
    henke37
    • Arche from Fortune Summoners spends the majority of the game without a single spell. And she only gets two magical moves by the end of the game and she still aren't allowed in magic class. But she more than compensates for this with her sword skills.
  • October 3, 2013
    reflaxion
    Oops. I forgot to mention in the Mx0 example that Kuzumi is the only main character in the series that can't use magic. Added the appropriate line:

    Anime/Manga
    • Kuzumi Taiga of Mx0 is a normal high school student who accidentally earned a reputation at Wizarding School Seinagi Academy as a high-level magic user, despite being completely unable to use magic himself. While he is generally able to compete with his classmates and maintain this illusion with quick wits, sometimes he is forced to rely on his brute strength, which is much greater than his peers due to being forced to train in martial arts with his sister.
  • October 3, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    alright then
  • October 3, 2013
    reflaxion
    Cool. Added.
  • October 4, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    so do ppl think this is ready for hats now?
  • October 4, 2013
    DAN004
    Maybe needs examples from other media as well?
  • October 8, 2013
    DrakeClawfang
    Well, we have lots of examples, again, do we think this is good to launch? Need some hats.
  • October 18, 2013
    JustaUsername
    Maybe people are apathetic about this trope...

    Probably thinking it's too close to Badass Normal or something else. Still, this can be used for people bad at magic (or whatever is supernatural in the show) not just those who aren't able to use magic.
  • May 18, 2014
    xanderiskander
    Magically Inept Fighter is just a terribly unclear name, and it's odd to name it after the fighter classes when the main reason the trope is used is for balancing of magic and physical stats.

    I think this would be better used as a general trope about physical attackers and magical attackers both having less of the other stat for balancing reasons. You could call it Magical And Physical Attack Balancing, and make it a subtrope of Competitive Balance. Plus the way the description is written it would already make more sense as that anyway.
  • May 18, 2014
    HeroicJay
    Kevin of Seiken Densetsu 3 hits like a truck, but learns extremely few magic spells relative to the other characters; it's possible for him to have access to no skills or spells after the first class change if you send him down his more physically-oriented path, and only two down his other path, when every other character will have several by that point.

    Also,

    Ayla from Chrono Trigger is one of the two characters that cannot learn magic, and the other one (Robo) has futuristic weapons that simulate magic pretty well. Ayla will typically be your strongest physical attacker.
  • May 18, 2014
    Bisected8
    • Katt from Breath Of Fire II is a subversion. She starts off as a physical damage based Glass Cannon. However, she begins to learn high level magic quite early, but doesn't have enough AP to use it until the higher levels (or if she's fused with the right shamans).
  • May 18, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Thinking about it, this is more of a gameplay trope and the Magical And Physical Attack Balancing might be a better idea. Though we need to have a better name, as that one is unwieldly.
  • May 18, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Actually, let's just go for Magically Inept Character as it is a clear gameplay trope.

    It's common for RP Gs and quite a few non-games have physical fighters in a universe where fighting with magic is to be expected.
  • May 18, 2014
    acrobox
    What about something like Physical Fighter to be the inverse for Squishy Wizard. Notice how Squishy Wizard doesnt go out of its way to be like Muscleless Magician or something else thats more of a short definition than a title.
  • May 18, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Yeah, Physical Fighter sounds good, I'm all for that name.
  • May 18, 2014
    DAN004
    What's with all the overly generic names that failed to describe the point of this trope? Squishy Wizard succeds, so does Magically Inept Fighter. At least change "fighter" to "brawler" to make it clearer. And no, why limit this to video games? Squishy Wizard doesn't.
  • May 18, 2014
    DAN004
    Btw...
    • Elsword: 5 of 4 characters, by default, excels in physical power (Elsword, Raven, Chung, Ara and Elesis) and they have little magical power and defense as a result. In particular, it is mentioned that Elsword's weakest point is indeed at magic (whereas the other four can have some decent, but still not impressive, magical attacks).
      • They can advance either to a purely physical class that plays with this even straighter, or a class that develops their magic power instead, subverting this trope.
  • May 18, 2014
    xanderiskander
    ^Magically Inept Fighter describes the trope terribly since the title implies the fighter is magical and is supposed to be good at magic when what we want is to describe the opposite. That being that the character is bad at magic because the character focused on being skilled in physical attacks instead.

    And how does "brawler" make it clearer than "fighter"? They mean the same thing. The difference is only aesthetic.
  • May 18, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ Ah, I see. You mean "fighter" is too neutral and can mean "magical fighter", right?

    Now I wonder what's the right word then...
  • May 18, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
  • May 18, 2014
    acrobox
    In defense of Physical Fighter - almost gets alliterative appeal because the ph sound is the same as f. 2 it says that a person fights with physicality, either offensively or defensively. If you specify physicality, you already imply that anything not physical wouldn't be a strong suit like i.e. magic.

    Physical Specialist - same reasons as above

    Sturdy And Spellless - as sort of the direct inverse to Squishy Wizard's squishiness.

    Muscle Muggle - strong, no magic since we already use Muggle on the wiki, thought its not perfect. A Physical Fighter could still have superpowers or whatever phlebotinum, just not use spell casting or magic.
  • May 19, 2014
    DAN004
    Brawlers Cant Do Magic gets my vote. I'd also throw Magically Inept Brute.

    Instead of simply Physical Fighter, maybe you can add "strictly" or "magically averse".

  • May 19, 2014
    BaffleBlend
    Video Games
    • In the Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi series, characters who either existed before Ki Attacks became common in the source material (such as Yajirobe, Nam, or Great Ape Kid Goku) or rely primarily on brute strength (such as Videl or Spopovich) have little to no ki-based abilities; Many of them cannot fly, and their standard ki blast either has an incredibly slow firing rate or is just throwing weak rocks at the opponent instead. Note that in this series, flight and ki blasts are abilities that are so ingrained into most of the cast as to be a basic game mechanic.
  • May 19, 2014
    LordHerobrine
    Remove Kenpachi, as he has an initial sword release now.

    Alternatively, comment that his case is no longer inept.

    Unless you are referring to Kido, then keep him up there, but change the description to mention Kido.

    Also, on that matter, add Renji Abarai, since he is literally inept at Kido, despite his many tries at it.
  • May 19, 2014
    DAN004
    Is the OP even there? I wanna grab this so badly...
  • May 19, 2014
    Chabal2
    Warhammer and Warhammer 40 K: Khorne, Chaos god of war, sees magic as a tool for cowards and traitors (his opposite god Tzeentch is the god of magic and backstabbers, so...), and so is the only one without a list of spells, but his followers are very strong physical fighters (when not The Berserker), and his 40K champion is Immune To Magic. Magical items and weapons, however, are acceptable.
  • May 19, 2014
    JustaUsername
    This is Up For Grabs so you can edit it yourself.
  • May 20, 2014
    DAN004
    Yaay XD

    Though this gonna have to wait till I got my hands on my computer... (I'm just with my phone)
  • May 20, 2014
    JustaUsername
    I'm thinking of changing the laconic description to something less game based. Something like: "A combatant with great physical ability but little to no magical power."
  • May 21, 2014
    JustaUsername
    I added most of the examples below however, I was a bit unsure about adding Khorne from Warhammer.
  • May 21, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Also editted the first paragraph, as I felt it was lacking in quality.
  • May 22, 2014
    Chabal2
    Warcraft III: The Tauren Chieftain has the highest natural health at level 10 of all heroes, but the least mana. Two of his abilities are passive, giving him a 1Up and an accelerating aura.
  • May 22, 2014
    Arivne
    ^^^^ I second changing this so it isn't limited to Video Games.
  • May 22, 2014
    Arivne
    • Namespaced and italicized work name(s).
    • Corrected spelling (to -> too).
    • Added a space between *'s and the first word following them.
    • Corrected improper Example Indentation in the Final Fantasy and Elsword examples.
    • Changed "excels" to "excel" (pluralization).
  • May 22, 2014
    DAN004
    ^^ already done, man.
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    I'm thinking we should put the examples in Alphabetical order while it is easy to. Lots of trope pages are like that and it makes it easier to find the work specified.
  • May 22, 2014
    Astaroth
    • In Secret Of Mana, two of the protagonists, the girl and the sprite, learn new spells each time you meet one of the mana spirits. When the third protagonist, the boy asks Undine, the first spirit, why she can't grant him spells, she replies that his sword will eventually become more powerful than any spell the spirits could teach him.
  • May 22, 2014
    DarkCyberWolf
    Fangfang Huang of Rosario+Vampire originally thinks of himself as a magic Summon Master, but eventually learns that he is more suited to physical combat since his summoning is random and rarely, if ever helpful. He does end up in a Battle Couple with an actual magic user, though.
  • May 22, 2014
    hbi2k
    I am thinking there should probably be a paragraph in the description talking about how this is justified in-story. Something like,

    "Justifications for this vary. Sometimes martial and magical prowess are not mutually exclusive by nature, but seldom go together because both take so much specialized training that few have the time and talent to master both. Sometimes it's enforced because Armor And Magic Dont Mix, so warriors would rather not waste time learning spells that they won't be able to use while armored. Or maybe the magic-users in a given setting embrace a philosophy of Technical Pacifism that would be at odds with training to disembowel their enemies. Or maybe there's no in-story justification at all. Regardless, the real reason tends to be Competitive Balance."

    Other than that, I think this trope is shaping up quite nicely.
  • May 22, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ thanks, will add it later.
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Added the justifications paragraph, new examples and put all examples in alphabetical order.
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Should we get rid of the lower Competitive Balance part? It makes the description redundant.
  • May 22, 2014
    acrobox
    how so? Competitive Balance describes most builds as foils. There's no direct foil pair for Squishy Wizard. This would fill that gap.

    Maybe move it to the end where it mentions Squishy Wizard as a related trope rather than have it hang out in the middle.
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Well, Competitive Balance is mentioned twice, that's why I wanted to get rid of the lower reference of it (though, I would plan to connect the Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards on the upper reference)
  • May 22, 2014
    acrobox
    go for it
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    And editted.

    Also, expanded this trope so things like Psychic Powers can also be linked to it, since Squishy Wizard does include stuff like that and these two tropes are supposed to be Opposite Tropes.

    We just need one more hat to launch this trope.
  • May 22, 2014
    acrobox
    Can we do a name crowner too?
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Maybe, if enough people were for it.
  • May 22, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Ah screw it, I'm putting a crowner so we can find a good name.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/AlternativeTitles/MagicallyIneptFighter
  • May 23, 2014
    TheTitan99
    • In Final Fantasy 5, the boss guarding the spell Holy, the Minotaur, is physically very powerful, having the same Strength stat as the final boss, but it can only attack without magic. At the end of the battle, it tries to use Holy on the player, and actually is unable to use the spell is was guarding in the first place due to being so physically focused!
  • May 23, 2014
    hbi2k
    FWIW, I like Magically Inept Fighter just fine.
  • May 23, 2014
    DAN004
    The current title wins by 6.
  • May 23, 2014
    JustaUsername
    Well, we'll launch this trope soon.

    I editted the description a bit and took out Dumb Muscle as I feel it doesn't relate to this trope enough. Any comments before I turn this YKTTW into a trope?
  • May 23, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
    Warriors Cannot Do Magic...

    Why, what happened? why didn't this win?

  • May 23, 2014
    JustaUsername
    @Shanghai Slave: Probably because it doesn't sound like a character trope.
  • May 23, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ Hm, completely missed that. good point.

    Got nuttin more. launch ahead unless someone else still has an objection.
  • May 24, 2014
    acrobox
    aw man...can Physical Fighter at least be a redirect
  • May 24, 2014
    Arivne
    ^ Redirects Are Free. Anyone can create them.
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