Created By: SeaRover on September 12, 2012 Last Edited By: abk0100 on September 13, 2012

Guys Scold Girls Too, Y'know...

One-sided situations when a male character gets mad at a female.

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Well, yeah!

Ayu: U-GUU-UU-UU!!!
Yuichi: Quit squirming. All of this is your fault.
Ayu: I was gonna pay him back tomorrow, I promise!
Yuichi: That's not good enough. I'll put up the money, but you're going to apologize to that guy right now.

A basic fact of life: Both male and female characters do stupid things, and gender makes no difference when it comes to who calls them out for it. In fiction, though, male characters tend only to rebuke other males, while female characters can do so to both males and other females.

This trope is the aversion of this blatant Double Standard. In order to be in effect, three basic criteria must apply:

  1. A male character has to get mad at a female character.

  2. It has to be in response to something she did. It doesn't count if she pissed him off on purpose, or if she was constantly chewing him out or something before he puts his foot down.

  3. It has to be a one-sided exchange. That is to say, the girl can try to argue back, but cannot successfully hold her ground.

Please keep in mind that what the guy actually says or does can vary, ranging from a single line to outright violence.

Sometimes counts as Not So Above It All, since a fair amount of shows utilize a Women Are Wiser dynamic, though may try to twist the mechanics by having the guy show more common sense for once. Compare and contrast The Bechdel Test, which lays down a similar set of rules against a certain Double Standard against women.


Examples:

Anime and Manga
  • Two minor examples in Nichijou include a scene where Sakamoto, in response to Nano and the Professor's god-awful trumpeting, jumps into the scene and tells them to knock it off (to which Nano apologizes), and another scene where Yuko's teacher brings her notebook down onto her head (repeated over 40 times) before asking to see her.
  • See the pagequote? That's Kanon's main character Yuichi calling Ayu out for stealing Taiyaki while dragging her back to the stand during the first episode.
  • The entire point of Amazing Nurse Nanako (besides fanservice). In just Nanako's first scene, she manages to break all the dishes and allow the fishes she was cooking to light up on fire. A few scenes later, her boss, Dr. Kyouji Ogami, tells her about an experiment that she's gonna be the subject of, explaining all the details, for having fucked up so badly.
  • Excel Saga: In just the third scene of the show, Il Palazzo shoots Excel twice for her hyperactive behavior. Furthermore, he is known in general to send her down a trapdoor for it. There's also a scene where Excel and Hyatt are supposed to hunt for some food for someone on a snowcapped mountain, but fail; the man then shuts them out in the cold to starve while bringing Menchi inside.
  • Pani Poni Dash!!: In her debut episode, Ichijou's little sister, after having somehow ended up on school grounds, comes across Tsurugi Inugami. His (terse) response: "And who might you be?" She then starts feasting on the cookies he has in front of him, and only a few seconds later, he lifts the tin up and tells that they're his, and to eat them one at a time if she wants any.
  • In their first scene in Chrono Crusade, Chrono and Rosette are inside a car when they receive a call from the church. When Chrono asks Rosette to wake up, she asks for "Just ten more hours", and he demands she get up immediately. (This is reversed in the manga.)
  • During one chapter of Yotsuba&, Yotsuba kicks a soccer ball she found through a window, and her stepfather appropriately scolds and spanks her for it.
  • During an episode of Nurse Witch Komugi, Komugi's boss finds Komugi out somewhere while she's supposed to be at her job, and berates her before carrying her by the waist.

Fanfiction
  • Keitaro: The Hater of Women is a novelized version of Love Hina, in which Keitaro is not the bumbling idiot that he is in canon. He is known to invoke this trope, not least of all when he catches Naru in his room looking through his books and rebukes her for it, before arranging a punishment for all the girls living at the dorm for her behavior.

Live-Action TV
  • There are scenes of this in Boston Public. For example, at the end of one episode, after sorting through some legal trouble, Daniel Hanson tells her that he intends to pack his stuff up and leave, when she asks what happens now that she's cheated on him. She responds by pleading "It can't be that simple", to which he bluntly says it is.
    • In another, Principal Stephen Harper rebukes Ronnie Cooke for shoving a desk onto its side in a fit of rage, to which she doesn't argue back. In another episode still, he suspends Lauren Pierce for pulling a gun on someone.
  • I Love Lucy was all about all kinds of stupid things the eponymous character did, and what her husband Ricky did to punish her, such as spanking her.
  • On Scrubs Dr. Cox would call out anyone, regardless of gender, any time they deserved it (and sometimes when they didn't). He was really the only one who could get away with scolding Carla on a regular basis.

Music
  • Eminem's song Kim is about how he rebukes and murders his eponymous wife. All song long, she pleads forgiveness and for her life, and one thing mentioned that she did was getting drunk and vomiting on someone at a party.
    • Another song, Guilty Conscience, involves a man who, coming home from work, finds his wife in bed with someone else. After hearing from Em and Dr. Dre about whether he should shoot them or not, he decides to.

Western Animation
  • Popeye has his moments with Olive Oyl, such as dumping her for being infatuated with Bluto, or throwing her off a boat for releasing a goldfish that he had been through hell retrieving for her (after she saw how unhappy the fish was to be back in its bowl).
  • An episode of Family Guy involves Loretta having had an affair with Quagmire, and ends with her husband Cleveland dumping her for it.
    • For another Family Guy example, at least two episodes involve Peter calling out Lois for her Jerk Ass behaviour, and gloating cheerfully about it ("PETER WAS RIGHT!").
  • During The Simpsons episode The Great Simpsina, Lisa makes a promise to a magician called The Great Raymondo never to reveal any of his secrets. She does, and needless to say, he is not pleased with her.
  • Similarly one episode of Sonic Sat Am has Sally making a reckless decision instead of Sonic. After she almost endangers the team's lives and fails to defend her argument, Sonic calls her out and gloats childishly.
  • Baloo frequently chews Rebecca out as much as vice versa in TaleSpin, and about 50% of the time, he is completely justified.
  • In Thomas And Friends (and The Railway Series novels they are based on) the Fat Controller scolds his female engines as much as his male ones when they do something wrong.
  • Since most of the main characters are female in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic they often end up getting called out by supporting male characters. Spike rebukes Twilight for her Idiot Ball moments as much as vice versa. Perhaps best examplified where Big Macintosh of all people bellows at the female Cutie Mark Crusaders for spreading lies and tells them to get lost.
Community Feedback Replies: 20
  • September 12, 2012
    Terabiel
    It's a terrible pun, but you could call this "The Nag's on the other Hoof".
  • September 12, 2012
    Psi001
    • For another Family Guy example, at least two episodes involve Peter calling out Lois for her Jerk Ass behaviour, and gloating cheerfully about it ("PETER WAS RIGHT!").
    • Similarly one episode of Sonic Sat Am has Sally making a reckless decision instead of Sonic. After she almost endangers the team's lives and fails to defend her argument, Sonic calls her out and gloats childishly.
    • Baloo frequently chews Rebecca out as much as vice versa in Tale Spin, and about 50% of the time, he is completely justified.
    • In Thomas And Friends (and The Railway Series novels they are based on) the Fat Controller scolds his female engines as much as his male ones when they do something wrong.
    • Since most of the main characters are female in My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic they often end up getting called out by supporting male characters. Spike rebukes Twilight for her Idiot Ball moments as much as vice versa. Perhaps best examplified where Big Macintosh of all people bellows at the female Cutie Mark Crusaders for spreading lies and tells them to get lost.

    Sometimes counts as Not So Above It All, since a fair amount of shows utilize a Women Are Wiser dynamic, though may try to twist the mechanics by having the guy show more common sense for once. If a male character has every entitlement to call out a female character, but still doesn't, it often qualifies as The Unfair Sex.

    I suppose if this is for examples that deconstruct the Women Are Wiser trope it could be something along the lines of Women Arent Always Wiser.
  • September 12, 2012
    Dacilriel
    On Scrubs Dr. Cox would call out anyone, regardless of gender, any time they deserved it (and sometimes when they didn't). He was really the only one who could get away with scolding Carla on a regular basis.
  • September 12, 2012
    SeaRover
    So far, you're getting the gist of this trope.

    I was also going to make it about the flip side of abuse being okay if it's to get someone to comply with you (such as how Lois pins Peter down and slams his face against the floor in order to get him to agree to come see Meg's school play, earlier in the same episode containing your Family Guy example), or when they outright attack someone (such as when a girl Megaton Punches a guy for stuff like walking in on her when she's naked or for hitting up on other girls they're already boyfriend-and-girlfriend). Some would argue that that would be its own trope altogether, but all examples I've seen of those variations have been female-on-male, and I'm trying to see whether any male-on-female examples exist whatsoever.

    EDIT: And, before anyone asks, Kyon calling out Haruhi for her Jerkass behavior doesn't count as this, since she still remains too stuck-up not to argue with him. Psi001, I've never watched Tale Spin regularly, so I'm not sure whether Rebecca was still argumentative or not; the Family Guy example still counts, though, since Lois did realize what was happening as a result of her behavior, and her coming out to him with it was what cued him to pull down the "PETER'S RIGHT!" banner.
  • September 12, 2012
    Shrikesnest
    Great jorb. Have a hat.

    EDIT: ...is what I would be saying if I could add them before the three-day mark.

    Anyway, it's great to see a YKTTW draft so fleshed-out and ready to go right off the bat.
  • September 12, 2012
    Routerie
    Sure, this is nice and fleshed out, but I'm not quite seeing the trope. A guy scolds a girl. How does the work portray this differently from the guy scolding another guy or a girl scolding another girl? The draft right now seems to suggest that they portray this no differently, as though that itself is tropeworthy

    And the examples cover such different things. You've got men calling out their wives for cheating (surely thereare many more examples of that, and women scold men for doing the same thing). There's Dr. Cox who just scolds everyone equally. There's Ricky spanking his wife, which is noteworthy for its values dissonance, not for the scolding, which is unremarkable. You've got Eminem scolding and murdering his wife.
  • September 12, 2012
    SeaRover
    That's a good point. Maybe I should narrow this down somewhat. Do understand, though, that it's often easier to find these kinds of things happening female-on-male than vice versa. I even did state in the body that it's meant to cover a range of such things, from a male character simply getting mad at a female (even if just briefly), to a girl's love interest telling her to fuck off, to forcing them into compliance, to any instances of a guy hitting a girl being treated as just as okay/justified as when a girl hitting a guy is.

    Will have to think this through, as well as thinking of a better title. And yes, I do recognize that these would all be different tropes, only brought all together under the fact that they are normally played with a guy receiving it from a girl.
  • September 12, 2012
    Psi001
    The Tale Spin version varies, since while a lot of the times the two are equally at each other's throats, a lot of times one will eventually show humility and admit fault. "I Only Have Eyes For You" is a more straight played variant, Rebecca spends most of the episode stubbornly ignoring Baloo's arguments, however when they get captured by Air Pirates, she breaks down and admits she should have payed attention. "The Louder They Oink" and "A Spy In The Ointment" are similar. Granted a lot of these occasions Baloo is more smug than firm with Rebecca.
  • September 12, 2012
    SeaRover
    Cleaned things up somewhat, particularly eliminating the violence/threats half of it. Not so much about scolding as getting or being mad at a female character in general. The actual responses from each situations deliverer varies, from just one line of dialogue to actual abuse.
  • September 12, 2012
    Jordan
    This is rather strangely worded. This is characterized as "a corrective development"^, but I really doubt that is the intent of many of the examples. I Love Lucy was "pre-feminist", and definitely didn't operate under a Women Are Wiser mindset (probably more like the exact opposite), and with anime, my impression is that comic violence against male character aside, its hardly unusual for them to be presented as smarter/more sensible.

    ^It's weird how articles about tropes where women are put down tend to have a very praiseworthy tone.
  • September 12, 2012
    captainsandwich
  • September 12, 2012
    SeaRover
    There. Reworded some bits to sound more neutral.

    As to why they'd have a praiseworthy tone, one could associate that with rampant double-standards against men. While anime does tend to have smarter male characters in general than other media, their shortcomings in general still tend to be more noticeable than female characters'. Least that's how I see things.
  • September 12, 2012
    SeaRover
    Would Hit A Girl and Would Hurt A Child.

    Those two are tropes, because most people, even in fiction, don't. Their respective counter-tropes, on the other hand, are tropes whenever they become relevant: They're either played out or averted.

    Like I said in the first paragraph of the body, it's harder to find instances of a male character one-sidedly berating a female than the other way around or between characters of the same sex, verbally or otherwise. Saying that it happens all the time in fiction anyway is like saying that women talk to each other about non-guy topics even in fiction, which they often don't (at least in movies and some other media; not such the case in a lot of anime), which is why The Bechdel Test was formulated in the first place.
  • September 12, 2012
    Routerie
    Would Hit A Girl and Would Hurt A Child are aversions of tropes. Those sort of pages seldom work well, but they only work at all when the averted trope is a trope. So if Guys Scold Girls Too refutes a common double standard, we should first work to document that standard - Guys Dont Scold Girls is the alleged trope, Guys Scold Girls Too is the aversion.

    And even those pages you mentioned really should only collect lampshaded examples - e.g. A says "ah, but you wouldn't hit a woman," B says "for you, I'll make an exception." Domestic Violence and Child Abuse are concepts in themselves, not aversions of a double standard in fiction.

    The Bechdel Test is a good example for comparison. The Bechdel Test is not a trope, and we collect no examples of works that pass or fail the test.
  • September 13, 2012
    Wumblee
    What, exactly, is the point of this trope? It just seems like you're collecting examples where male characters yell at female characters and it's justified. Which is, somehow, apparently a ground-breaking stance against double standards? Really, it's a Chair unless what Routerie suggested is followed through - establish a trope for guys not scolding girls, and hence include these aversions.
  • September 13, 2012
    SeaRover
    I guess the reason The Bechdel Test isn't a trope is because there is no trope about women only talking either to or about men. (And no, The Smurfette Principle is not that trope, because that's more about a work having few or no prominent female characters at all.)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Guys Dont Scold Girls would be practically as much a trope as Nobody Poops, a trope under which only aversions are listed because it's just common knowledge and no one refers to it in-universe (not to mention that both tropes omit something that happens all the time in real life. However, the latter is justified as being too mundane and usually irrelevant to what goes on, meaning that if anything, the trope should be about someone using the bathroom, not people not using it).

    So, I guess Routerie and Wumblee are saying that this trope should be Guys Dont Scold Girls and have only aversions listed in order to be a trope. Right?
  • September 13, 2012
    Routerie
    We could make a Guys Dont Scold Girls page, but, like Nobody Poops, it shouldn't list straight examples or aversions, because both are too numerous and too meaningless to trope. It should only list lampshaded examples.
  • September 13, 2012
    SeaRover
    Admittedly, given how many examples of this trope I myself added in (not counting the handful of those contributed by other tropers), I might have proven myself wrong about girls never receiving an earful from guys.

    Still, there is the fact that at least when it's played comically or lightheartedly, it's more likely to be either female-on-male or monogender. For example, there's the first episode of Fate Stay Night, in which Taiga berates one of her students for calling her a tiger, complete with her face cartoonishly huge and sharp-teethed while she yells. (There are exceptions, but still...)

    Wouldn't any of you agree?
  • September 13, 2012
    Routerie
    Yes, one's more likely than the other, but that's not something we could document by just giving examples of either.

    One way we could do this would be to treat it like other double standard tropes. We give examples of women yelling at women or men at men or women at men and each time say "imagine this playing out as man on woman. Impossible!"

    There are quite a few problems with that though (problems that exist with current double standard tropes too). Maybe readers won't imagine the reverse impossible. Maybe the reverse isn't impossible because it actually happens plenty. And the example list may degrade into simply a list of people scolding each other without highlighting any double standard.

    Another way may be to directly describe a double standard with each example. Say, "In show X, Alice often chews Bob out. Bob often chews Dave out. Carol often chews Alice out. But we'll never see Bob chew Alice out."

  • September 13, 2012
    KarjamP
    Current title sounds like dialog to me (as if, someone's trying to tell me in character that guys also scolds girls).
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