Created By: objection215 on May 9, 2014 Last Edited By: objection215 on June 7, 2014
Troped

Hairy Girl

When a female character is depicted with hairy armpits, legs, or pubic hair for various reasons.

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
In Western culture, the majority of women tend to shave their body hair (e.g. leg, armpit, and pubic hair) for cosmetic reasons. Various media reflect this in fiction, as almost all female characters have smooth, hairless skin in the aforementioned regions. Typically this is also a signifier of beauty, as unshaven women and girls (most commonly legs or face) are criticised for such traits. Thus, the depiction of a Hairy Girl is generally for one of two different contexts:
  • Negatively, to portray the character as unattractive or weird for comedic effect
  • Neutrally to distinguish the character as rebellious or rugged.

In Real Life, girls who choose not to shave their body hair are generally associated with some forms of counterculture. In television, some reasons a character may choose to abstain from shaving or waxing include sticking it to the man, expressing their womanhood, or simply being lazy. Sometimes, though, the Hairy Girl is not a taboo in the context of the work's setting (perhaps its region or time period). This trope occurs most commonly with throw-away Granola Girl characters that writers portray as female hippies and feminists, but these are frequently just Played for Laughs as it's a "social taboo" in Western society. Another common comedic use of the trope is for characters to mention French girls and the unshaven stereotype of them which exists in fiction much more than in Real Life. If the trope isn't rubbing your face in it, odds are that it's a means to simply distinguish her from other female characters as a rebel.

Compare the New-Age Retro Hippie and Granola Girl. Also compare with Bald Women, with girls having a lack of hair where it's expected to be. Contrast Perma Shave, which is often the complete inversion of this trope, especially in a situation where the women are in situations where shaving would be impossible. Not be confused with Girls with Moustaches, which focuses on the unnatural phenomenon of women possessing properly styled facial hair, rather than that "unsightly" fuzz on their top lip.


Examples

    open/close all folders 

     Advertisements 
  • Boost Mobile features a commercial where a girl riding a bike has comedically long armpit hair hitting her tandem rider in the face behind her, asking 'You think that's wrong? Hidden cell phone fees are wrong.'

     Anime and Manga 
  • Genshiken. Rika Yoshitake insults a male character's skimpy facial hair, telling him "I have more armpit hair than that!".

     Comic Books 
  • Persepolis. Marjane's roommate Lucia has hairy armpits. They aren't very noticeable in the comic, but in the animated film they comically blow in the wind from her hairdryer.
  • In Wanted, one of the ways Wesley Gibson knows that his relationship with his girlfriend is falling apart is because she's not bothering to shave her legs anymore.
  • In Runaways, it's implied that Karolina stopped shaving her legs for a while after Xavin left her.

     Film 
  • In The Dictator, the eponymous main character and unlikely love interest Zoey somehow manage a particularly funny fake out during their "sex scene" swapping oral sex for The Dictator Aladeen instead licking her hairy armpits.
  • Mrs. Doubtfire does some zigzagging with this trope. Daniel, dressed in drag as Mrs. Doubtfire, boards a bus with his stockings falling down. The bus driver begins flirting with "her" and upon noticing some legs that are considerably hairy, the driver admits that he likes women that way.
  • Home Alone. Discussed.
    Buzz: Is it true that French babes don't shave their pits?
    Rod: (Pause) Some don't.
    Buzz: But they got nude beaches.
    Rod: Not in the winter.
  • Katniss Everdeen from The Hunger Games is mentioned as having hairy legs, though it's more of a downplayed example given that it comes up only for the sake of a Painful Body Waxing scene.

     Literature 

     Live Action TV 
  • Saturday Night Live. Gilda Radner's character "Candy Slice," a parody of Patti Smith note , has furry armpits, and at one point grabs someone else's comb and uses it on her pits.
  • On NCIS, Tony starts hitting on a female park ranger who's aiding in an investigation, only to get a glimpse of her unshaven armpits. He's immediately turned off by the sight, and makes up a clumsy sob story about being a recent widower to derail her interest.
  • An episode of Popular had a girl put on fake underarm hair as the boy she was interested in was rumored to like Granola Girl types. (It didn't work, but not because of the hair.)
  • Though not in context, some of the footage from the survival-themed Discovery series Naked and Afraid contains female survivalists who haven't shaved in weeks, for obvious reasons.
  • A non-contextual (but historically accurate!) example in the Deadwood episode "A Lie Agreed Upon"; Alma Garrett reveals hair under her arms during a sex scene.
  • In one of the Cynthia Worthington skits in The Amanda Show, Cynthia declares that she hasn't shaved in days and lifts her skirt to reveal a hairy legs, which she then uses a weed whacker on. This drives away everyone in the room, leaving Cynthia to comment, "How rude!" before she uses the weed whacker on one of her hairy armpits.
  • In the sketch show Smack The Pony, during one skit Doon MacKichan is seen in the communal changing rooms at a swimming pool mentioning to her friend that she hasn't had a bikini wax in a while. She turns around revealing a whole forest of hair climbing out of her bikini.
  • In the third episode of The Big Bang Theory Sheldon notes "Leslie Winkle recently started shaving her legs. Now, given that winter is coming, one can only assume that she's signaling sexual availability."

     Music 
  • Amanda Palmer has hairy armpits which she flaunts on stage quite frequently. Hell, her latest single was written entirely about her pubes.

     Newspaper Comics 
  • Referenced in a Bloom County comic when someone says that feminists don't shave their legs. The next panel, there's a woman saying, "Stereotypes. The language of hate." Her legs are very shaggy.
  • Tina's Groove: Monica, Tina's not-too-bright coworker, has hairy legs, which are described by the other workers in a mix of awe and horror. In one strip she was overheard shaving for a date by yelling "Timber!" repeatedly behind a restroom door.

     Video Games 

     Western Animation 
  • The Simpsons
    • After having her leg broken in one episode, Marge has her cast finally removed and discovers her leg could use a waxing, much to Dr. Hibert's alarm.
    • A second example occurs in Lisa's spelling-bee dream where she is tempted with a free ride to the Seven Sisters college of her choice, the Vassar College representative says she can "Non-conform, like me!" while raising her arms showing visibly hairy armpits.
    • Played with, when Homer becomes a Hippie, he encourages Marge to let her leg hair grow on the grounds that it's more natural. "Come on, I want to see those legs all furry and gross!" She doesn't agree.
  • King of the Hill. After Hank and friends' campsite is overrun by hippies in one episode, they witness a classic hippie lady sporting hairy armpits as she dances through the river where they're fishing.
  • The Fairly OddParents. Following Timmy's wish for his parents to stop caring so much, his mother gets the opportunity to save him by swinging across traffic using her "braided underarm hair rope!"
  • Recess. Miss Grotke, who is clearly something of a New-Age Retro Hippie teacher, is often seen with rather heavy stubble on her legs.
  • Bob's Burgers: In one episode Tina has to come to grips with the fact she now has hairy legs, being a teenager. Though at first she struggles with what to do about it, at the end of the episode she accepts her new 'little hair friends' and decides to keep it.

     Web Comics 

     Web Original 
  • Bravest Warriors: In the episode "Gas-Powered Stick", Chris peeps on Beth in her bedroom shaving her armpit hair. He then proceeds to sing a song about it before being interrupted by Plum.
  • Hypnotically adorable Japanese Youtuber Cotorich has hairy armpits, to the chagrin of many of her fans. [1]

     Real Life 
  • There's definitely some Truth in Television here due to the fact despite being uncommon in Western civilization, there are still plenty of women in real life who choose not to shave. Some abstain as a social commentary on double standards, some do so since it makes them feel more natural about their own bodies, and some even don't shave simply because it's too much work. This is, after all, the whole basis of this trope.
  • There's a fair share of female celebrities seen once in a while choosing to sport some armpit fur in public. Julia Roberts, Madonna, Britney Spears, Drew Barrymore, Juliette Lewis, and others have all been spotted doing so. The Paparazzi ensures it usually doesn't end favorably for them.
  • Many older films originating from Italy, France, and the Czech Republic prior to 1980s featured female actresses with unshaven armpits due to it not yet becoming fashionably mainstream in Europe.

Community Feedback Replies: 91
  • May 9, 2014
    Elfkaiser
    Not sure if it could happen but the trope maybe mistaken for a Petting Zoo People girl, a furry, or a girl who is into furries.
  • Yup, this is Truth In Television, as the description points out, there's something of a modern-day feminist movement going on in recent years where women are refusing to shave their armpits or legs, on the grounds that men don't have to, so why should they? Stealth Troper Tale, I saw an obviously New Age Retro Hippie girl at the store recently whose legs were hairier than mine. O.O

    Aside from that... I honestly don't know the movie, as I've only seen a clip of it on the internet, but I recall a scene with Kate Winslet (I think), where she's naked (much to a more proper gentleman's disdain), and I think at one point, she raised her arms to hold her hair back, and there was hair on her armpits. On a similar note, didn't the titular character of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo have hairy armpits?

    Western Animation
    • Recess. Miss Grotke, who is clearly something of a New Age Retro Hippie teacher, is often seen with rather heavy stubble on her legs.
  • Oh, and this needs a better name. "Furry", in most cases on the internet, refers to people with an anthro fetish, and The Furry Girl sounds like girls who are into that weird stuff portrayed in fiction. Maybe The Hairy Girl?
  • May 9, 2014
    randomsurfer
    • In another Simpsons when Homer becomes a Hippie, he encourages Marge to let her leg hair grow on the grounds that it's more natural. "Come on, I want to see those legs all furry and gross!"
    • In the third episode of The Big Bang Theory Sheldon notes "Leslie Winkle recently started shaving her legs. Now, given that winter is coming, one can only assume that she's signaling sexual availability."
    • Saturday Night Live: Gilda Radner's character "Candy Slice," a parody of Patti Smith, has furry armpits and at one point grabs someone else's comb and uses it on her pits.
  • May 9, 2014
    Tuckerscreator
    • Persepolis: Marjane's roommate Lucia has hairy armpits. They aren't very noticeable in the comic, but in the animated film they comically blow in the wind from her hairdryer.
    • Fox Trot: In one week-long story, Roger was attempting to grow a beard and looking horrific in the process. His wife Andy eventually got him to shave it off by threatening to stop shaving her own legs.
  • May 9, 2014
    HellKillUsAll
    • Invoked in an episode of Ed, Edd n Eddy, where Eddy makes fake newspaper stories about the characters. Nazz is accused by the paper of having hairy legs, with the picture being Nazz with a monkey's legs pasted over he lower half.
  • May 9, 2014
    Omrega
    Referenced in a Bloom County comic when someone says that feminists (?) don't shave their legs. The next panel, there's a woman saying, "Stereotypes. The language of hate." Her legs are very shaggy.
  • May 9, 2014
    SKJAM
    An episode of Popular had a girl put on fake underarm hair as the boy she was interested in was rumored to like Granola Girl types. (It didn't work, but not because of the hair.)
  • May 9, 2014
    DAN004
  • May 9, 2014
    SharleeD
    The Live Action Television example belongs under Advertising, not TV. For a legitimate series example:

    • On NCIS, Tony starts hitting on a female park ranger who's aiding in an investigation, only to get a glimpse of her unshaven armpits. He's immediately turned off by the sight, and makes up a clumsy sob story about being a recent widower to derail her interest.
  • May 9, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
    more like Hairy Pretty or Hairy Lady for alliteration.
  • May 9, 2014
    Snicka
    ^ You mean rhyming. Alliteration is when the first letters are the same.

    Hairy Girl or Hairy Lady (with or without "The") is much better than the current title, due to the reasons explained above.
  • May 10, 2014
    Paradisesnake
    See Girls With Moustaches for different kind of hairy ladies.
  • May 10, 2014
    objection215
    -Thanks for the suggestions. The hairy girl it is.

    -My bad on the commercial, I totally forgot there was a section for ads.

    -Will start adding in examples. Thanks for all the references guys!
  • May 10, 2014
    DAN004
    Contrast Bald Women
  • May 10, 2014
    Chabal2
  • ^ The Guilded Age example reminds of yet another Stealth Troper Tale, where I actually asked women why they keep tattooing themselves in this day and age (because frankly, I find it to be a turn-off); I think of all the women who answered that question, only one of them didn't respond with, "Well, men get tattoos, so why shouldn't we?"

    But, I digress. Does anyone else think that Girls With Moustaches might be a related trope to this?
  • May 12, 2014
    objection215
    TC here, added in a few more examples and expanded on the relations of it to Girls With Moustaches, Bald Women, and Perma Shave.

    Any other suggestions or examples?
  • May 13, 2014
    objection215
    I'm curious as to why someone tagged this with a motion to discard, without even leaving any feedback. So far, nearly every comment has been helpful. Is it not trope-worthy? Is it already covered somewhere? Help.
  • May 13, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ just ignore that tag. Especially if it comes all of a sudden.
  • May 14, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^^ Happens all the time. best to ignore it. the only Motion To Discard that matters is the one that is explained.
  • Lindsay Lohan is really hairy. :/

    But, on a more serious note, this could be a Real Life example, but I recall reading an article/interview with Mayim Bialik, saying that she outright refuses to shave her legs, but I don't remember what her reasonings were, though I believe it was along that lines that she finds it unnecessary, or sees no point in doing so, or whatever.
  • As far as Drew Barrymore goes, could it be because she's bisexual? I mean, I know that it's a now-outdated stereotype that gay men shave their body hair, maybe gay/bi women don't shave theirs? *Shrug*

    Live Action TV
    • truTV Presents: World's Dumbest... In an Inventions episode, featuring the Wearable Towel, we see in the informercial a woman treating her hair, while wearing the promoted Wearable Towel; we see she has a considerable amount of armpit hair.
  • Not sure if this counts:

    Film
    • Home Alone. Discussed.
      Buzz: Is it true that French babes don't shave their pits?
      Rod: (Pause) Some don't.
      Buzz: But they got nude beaches.
      Rod: Not in the winter.
  • May 20, 2014
    objection215
    Some of those examples are a bit ambiguous but I appreciate the suggestions though! Does anyone think it has enough examples yet, or should I keep looking?
  • May 21, 2014
    NESBoy
    In one of the Cynthia Worthington skits in The Amanda Show, Cynthia declares that she hasn't shaved in days and lifts her skirt to reveal a hairy legs, which she then uses a weed whacker on. This drives away everyone in the room, leaving Cynthia to comment, "How rude!" before she uses the weed whacker on one of her hairy armpits.
  • May 22, 2014
    Tuckerscreator
    Newspaper Comics
    • Tina's Groove: Monica, Tina's not-too-bright coworker, has hairy legs, which are described by the other workers in a mix of awe and horror. In one strip she was overheard shaving for a date by yelling "Timber!" repeatedly behind a restroom door.

    And another bit that can be added to the Persepolis example.

    • Marjane herself is fairly hairy, but it's treated a sign of her lack of self-esteem. After she becomes determined to take charge of her life following her failed suicide attempt, a montage ensues of Marjane working to make herself look nice again, including plucking out all her body hair in a comically painful manner.
  • May 27, 2014
    lakingsif
    The title immediately suggested to me the stereotype of Indian girls with monobrows, don't ask me why, but maybe a better title? Like Non Shaving Girl, which also suggests that it is a choice she takes to not try and be not-hairy, as opposed to maybe not even noticing or having really fast growing hair. If this launches, I have an idea for the image: Timmy's mom in a Fairly Odd Parents episode where both his mom and dad become slobs and she makes a lasso out of her armpit hair.
  • May 27, 2014
    objection215
    @laking Non-shaving Girl seems awkward to say, I feel. I do have the Fairly Oddparents example listed though. Thanks!

    I'll add the new examples people mentioned. Does anyone think this is worth launching yet?
  • You need five hats to launch.

    So, have a hat, on me. I think there's potential here.
  • May 28, 2014
    lakingsif
    ^^ Ditch the 'The' at least, then.

    I have a suggestion, in the description you have something about French girls with hairy armpits... Blah blah... "hooray stereotypes"? Maybe if you replace that last bit with "because of reasons nobody can seem to remember anymore, or maybe because a lot of French women became soldiers last century."

    ^ Whilst hats aren't for "this has potential", they're for "I think this, as is, would make a great wiki page", I do think it's ready enough to go. Have a hat (but try not to ask for them in the title/laconic!)
  • May 28, 2014
    SquirrelGuy
    Film: Played with (or justified?) in Mrs Doubtfire. Daniel boards a bus in drag, and the bus driver flirts with "her". Upon noticing some legs that are considerably hairy, the driver admits that he likes women that way!
  • May 28, 2014
    Snicka
    ^^ I agree that the title works better without "The", simply as Hairy Girl.
  • May 28, 2014
    DAN004
  • May 29, 2014
    Snicka
    ^ Is "body hairy" a word? I looks very awkward to me. Hairy Bodied Girl, maybe?
  • May 29, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ close enough.
  • May 29, 2014
    Paradisesnake
    ^ Not really. Sounds a bit awkward and forced to me.
  • May 29, 2014
    lakingsif
    ^, ^^ yeah, even Bodily Hairy Girl sounds better.
  • May 30, 2014
    objection215
    Kay added in the newest suggestions, added a couple other references.

    Also I changed the name, dropping the "The" from it. Hairy Girl sound better?
  • May 31, 2014
    Snicka
    ^ Yes, I think Hairy Girl is pretty clear (the word "hairy" invokes body hair in my mind).
  • June 1, 2014
    objection215
    Fair enough. Two more hats. I'll keep looking for references. Thanks guys!
  • June 3, 2014
    AgProv
    In the sketch show Smack The Pony, Doon =McKichan= is seen as a woman in the communal changing rooms in a swimming baths, who casually mentions she's not had a "bikini wax" for a while but doesn't think anyone would notice. She is then seen in full-body shot, in a one-piece swimming costume, with a whole forest of long black curly hair fighting its way out through the legs of the costume.
  • June 5, 2014
    AgProv
    also, in an episode of American Dad, Hayley Smith bombs out of a paying gig at a pole-dancing club when her wig falls off during a stunt, revealing her to be bald (it makes sense in context). She is booed off stage, and one heckler is heard shouting

    That's the only place you want them to have hair!

    A comment on the American male fetish for all women to have completely shaven bodies?
  • June 5, 2014
    Noah1
    There was a older YKTTW called "Gross-Out Girl". Maybe someone could track it down and merge it?
  • June 5, 2014
    Paradisesnake
    ^ It was discarded, but here it is: The Gross-out Girl.
  • June 5, 2014
    kerani
    I'm trying to put a finger on just what is bothering me about the write-up to this trope. I think it's trope-worthy, but the write-up is off-putting. (And again, I'm having a hard time articulating *how*.)

    Suggestions: - Reconsider use of woman vs girl here. Women have pubic hair. Girls don't. (Oddly, I'm okay with keeping Hairy Girl as the title. Not sure that Hairy Woman has the same ring.)

    - Emphasize a bit more both the variation on specific hair which is expected to not be there (ie, waxing eyebrows and chin hairs, yes, public hair, sometimes, forearm hair, rarely to never) and the varations by culture and generation (ie Brazilians are not a world-wide thing)(Yes, I know it's a trope and not a Useful Notes, but chin hair/forearm hair/leg hair/public hair are all body hair. Not all of these fit the trope.)

    - Emphasize the negative conotations (disgust and mockery are supposed to be elicited by the current use of this trope, not affection or sympathy) at least for female examples

    - Pothole both Warts And All and Wicked Witch

    - Mention male examples, such as Grandpa Beebe of the Misty of Chincoteague books, and how the treatment of females differs from males in this trope

    - Contrast Freaky Cute

    • Amelie: It comes up when the title character is applying to work at a carnival.
    Carnival Barker: [on the phone] Are you shaved? Because fur pie doesn't do it for anyone.

    I think at the end what bothers me about the article is a drift away from "describe the trope, don't engage in the trope". (Which might not be a real guideline.) Hope this helps.
  • June 5, 2014
    Phantom1
    In The Perks of Being a Wallflower (the book I don't know about he movie) Charlie's English teacher's hippie girlfriend has unshaven armpits Charly is delighted by the fact she fits the Granola Girl stereotype
  • June 5, 2014
    objection215
    @Kerani

    I know you said you're having trouble expressing what you dislike about the write-up, but your explanation didn't really help much unfortunately...

    First off, I think you're reading too much into the phrase "body hair" since most people only associate it with armpits, legs, and pubic region, unless you happen to be a miraculously furry human being. Eyebrows and chin hairs are all facial hair, which don't fall under this trope. It's a common enough uncommon occurrence of females not shaving their legs and armpits, for people to recognize it as its own phenomenon.

    Secondly, I think you're nitpicking about the feminine words I used. I wrote various terms, including women/girl/female throughout the course of the summary. I think I used the word "girl" maybe once the entire summary. Your suggestion to switch everything to the term "woman" is overly restrictive and unnecessary since the term girl is subjective. It can apply to a 1 year old, and it can apply to a 30 year old. It all depends on who's using the term. A writeup using the word "woman" over and over again will get repetitive fast.

    On top of this, I don't really understand how citing examples that show men with leg/armpit/pubic hair fits into this concept, since the whole point of it is 'women generally shave their hair there, but sometimes they don't, and it's noticeable when they do not.' I already touched on the issue that in drawn examples, even male characters are rarely depicted with it due to the fact its difficult to draw. I don't think there's more of a need to go into it further than that.

    I'm not really sure what you want me to do to with Warts And All or Wicked Witch, or any of those other tropes. I went into detail some contrast and comparisons VS related ones.

    What I can do is try to re-write and revamp chunks of it, and maybe you'll like it. I think it's frivolous to emphasize the negative connotations even more than I already did because the trope itself isn't "Sometimes a female character has hairy armpits and EWW GROSS THEY NASTY" it's simply "Sometimes this is a thing applied to female characters for various reasons"
  • June 5, 2014
    objection215
    @Noahl

    Believe it or not I started that Gross Girl YKTTW myself long ago but in the long run realized it wasn't really trope-worthy.

    I don't really think the two belong together since as I mentioned in last comment, not all depictions of this trope are in a squicky or negative light. It's played for laughs a lot, but sometimes it's also done up as shock value, or other times it's really just a matter of making the character unique.

    As far as other examples, I'll add some in. Though as a heads up, I'm not adding in references where the characters were merely discussing it as a general thing since they're usually kinda vague and lampshadey.
  • June 5, 2014
    kerani
    @objection215

    - "reading too much into body hair" and "women generally shave there but sometimes they don't": this is part of what I'm trying to get at. This is a relatively young trope (Newer Than They Think) and not a global phenomonom. Related to this "most people only associate it with armpits, legs, and pubic region" - this is an artifact of the moment/culture, not a permanent one. The idea of what makes a woman unacceptably hairy varies.

    - I have no issues with using 'female' but I think that using 'girl' is problematic. I would like to see (non-porno) examples of this trope being applied to 1 year olds.

    - If you (and others) don't see how Warts And All or Wicked Witch relates to this trope, that's fine, don't follow through with the suggestion.

    - I think that "showing a woman with more body hair than is currently considered the norm in Western media" is People Sit On Chairs. Unless I'm mistaken, a trope is about how an image is used in story telling, and what it symbolizes. So the use of pre-1980's European films would (IMO) not be the trope.

    - "I think it's frivolous to emphasize the negative connotations" - Please point me at a modern use of the trope where it is not intended to portray the character in question negatively. I think this is a key part of the trope as it is used in media, and should be included. There is more to male characters not being depicted this way than just "the fact its difficult to draw".

    - It's your ykttw, not mine. I don't have to like it.
  • June 5, 2014
    objection215
    I never said you could apply the trope to a 1 year old. I said using the word "girl" is subjective, meaning someone could call a baby a girl, or a totally grown up woman a girl. It's just a really loose term and feel it's nitpicking to say technically only women have body hair. If you really want to be technical, some girls start to develop it as early as age 10. So I don't see a big deal in using the word girl alongside woman and female.

    Furthermore that's my point, about the variation of cultural views on women and hair removal. I'm not making this trope about what the characters' interpretation of the female character's hair is. It's an objective trope. And no it's not People Sit On Chairs because it's uncommon in the first place, for many modern societies. It'd be PeopleSitOnChairs-y if the trope were about girls who DO shave. I don't care what's considered too hairy or acceptable, it doesn't matter. All this trope is is doing is listing examples in media where women have armpit/leg/pubic hair and the context. That's why I included the short blurb about older European films. This trope doesn't symbolize any one specific depiction of a woman with body hair. It'd be too specific to make it something like "Only hippie girls have hairy armpits" or "Feminists don't shave their legs." It's a straight-forward, visual concept which gets depicted numerous different ways with different reasons, which is why I made it.

    Also, I get the feeling you didn't actually read the whole YKTTW since there's already a handful of references up there where the girl in question wasn't presented negatively. And furthermore because you seem to be misunderstanding the point I made about hand-drawn examples with men not having body hair.

    I appreciate your feedback but I really think you're overthinking the trope as a whole and looking for something where there isn't anything.
  • June 5, 2014
    objection215
    Just added in a little bit more details to how the trope relates to other ones. Expanded on the different reasons the trope can be applied to a character. Added in a couple more examples.

    Also sweet, fifth hat. Thanks guys! I'll keep it here a little bit longer just in case anyone knows any other references to add in.
  • June 5, 2014
    Paradisesnake
    Removed Circular Links from the description + namespaced and italicized a couple examples.

    By the way, what's that Red Link to "Musicalis Interuptis" supposed to be?

    EDIT: No wait, I got it. It's supposed to be Musicalis Interruptus. Fixed that one.
  • June 5, 2014
    kerani
    Yes, I did read the whole thing.

    I did misread where you claimed that "girl" could be applied to females of various ages - sorry about that.

    "I don't care what's considered too hairy or unacceptable" - but a woman presented as having unacceptable hair *is* what makes this a trope - having the hair *matters*. And it matters because the depiction is used to make the character repulsive or comical to the audience.

    "It's a straight-forward, visual concept which gets depicted numerous different ways with different reasons" - look, either it's straightforward or it gets shown and used in different ways. Not both.

    It's a visual concept that carries a specific context - more like redhair color, say, than blonde color (which has a wider range of things it symbolizes). I never said that it meant "only hippies/feminists/lesbians don't shave their [X]" - I said that regardless of the other attributes of this character, the use of this trope serves to depict the character as mock-worthy (repulsive or comical). Tropes are tools, and that is what this tool is used for. To claim that the depiction of hair is neutral, and that it doesnt come with a pre-loaded context, is IMO false.

    And I think I'm not being clear about why the handdrawn depictions of men don't make use of body hair - it's not that the art is that hard, it's that the addition of hair to male characters means nothing, while the addition of hair to specific female characters does.

    I'll give you 'possibly over thinking' but I myself am wondering why you're so insistant that there is nothing to what I'm pointing out.
  • June 5, 2014
    WaterBlap
    Removed a hat because I think the description is too wordy for a launch. Some of the phrasing also seems to be more like a Useful Note rather than a trope.
  • June 5, 2014
    WaterBlap
    • I brought the word count down from 600 to 399.
    • I tried to keep the points made in the original version, but some of the original phrasing implied the article was about the Real Life phenomenon rather than the portrayal of the phenomenon in fiction, which would belong either in this trope's analysis page or a separate Useful Notes page.
    • I reorganized some of the points the original article made to keep the paragraphs focused on one overall topic/purpose.
    • A few lines in the original made it clear this trope is more prevalent in Western culture but then others implied that this trope (i.e. hairy females are taboo) is world-wide, so I took out the world-wide phrasings.

    I think this trope still has two issues other than the wordiness that need fixing:

    I think this trope has another issue, though, concerning examples in the future: The description doesn't make it clear that a female character having body hair is not enough to be an example. In other words, a female character with a lot of body hair but without any event, plot point, character reference, etc., making that fact more than the fact that she has body hair.

    Please remember that this is just a suggestion! Just trying to cut down on the walls of text, really.
    In Western culture, the majority of women tend to shave their body hair (e.g. leg, armpit, and pubic hair) for cosmetic reasons. Various media reflect this in fiction, as most female character have smooth, hairless skin in the aforementioned regions. Portraying a girl as the Hairy Girl is generally a way to depict a girl as being different or unique.

    Some reasons a character may choose to abstain from shaving or waxing include sticking it to the man, simply expressing their womanhood, or simply being lazy. As this is a common Frenchwoman stereotype, one reason a character may be a Hairy Girl is, unfortunately, because she's French. Sometimes, it is simply a part of who the character is and not a conscious decision on the character's part, possibly for the writer to make them unique. Other times, the Hairy Girl is not a taboo in the context of the work's setting (perhaps its region or time period).

    Some writers portray female hippies and feminists as Hairy Girls, but this is frequently just Played For Laughs as it's a social taboo in Western society. Some shows may employ this trope by utilizing obviously fake hair on the actress in question.

    Interestingly enough, many men in cartoons, anime, comics, and other non-live media will be depicted without body hair despite the fact that it's generally acceptable for men to appear on TV featuring their Carpet Of Virility (or other body hair). This can be accompanied by women also not being portrayed with body hair, and may simply be because of the difficulty of drawing the hair. If the Hairy Girl is the only non-live character with body hair, that may be the reason.

    In Real Life, girls who choose not to shave their body hair are generally associated with some forms of counterculture.

    Compare the New Age Retro Hippie and Granola Girl since there's much between these tropes crossing over in many Real Life societies. Also compare this trope with Bald Women, in which females are depicted as bald for the sake of appearing strange and alien, demonstrating the Real Life conundrum of girls being expected to have long-flowing hair on their head but nowhere else. See also Warts And All. Contrast Perma Shave, which is often the complete inversion of this trope especially when in a situation where the women depicted are in situations where shaving would be impossible. Not be confused with Girls With Moustaches, which focuses on the unnatural phenomenon of women possessing facial hair.
  • Apparently two tropers removed hats, so here's a sympathy hat to get this closer to being launched again.
  • June 5, 2014
    Dalillama
  • June 5, 2014
    objection215
    Thanks for the rewrite, Water Blap. Admittedly I'm sorta new to this so my phrasing and actual writeup was a bit rough. I appreciate you formatting it for me. I changed the whole YKTTW and replaced with your edit. It sounds awesome!

    And thanks for the sympathy hat Lurker. Also thanks for the formatting, Paradise Snake. Everyone's been very helpful!
  • June 5, 2014
    objection215
    I just did some of my own minor tweaks to Water Blap's edit. Cut a few more things out, and got it down to 370 words.

    Additionally, I tried to emphasize the fact this trope generally needs a context, or else it's just PSOC.

    Here's hoping the new writeup gets some hats back.
  • Who keeps removing the hats? This was on the verge of being launched, and it ended up losing three hats in less than 24 hours.
  • June 5, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ all because of kerani...
  • June 5, 2014
    fallinq
    Another one from Bloom County in Newspaper comics: Opus's one time girlfriend, Lola Granola has hairy legs when they first start dating, although this is something of an Informed Attribute
  • June 6, 2014
    AgProv
    hope you don't mind, but added an explanatory note to the draft concerning Gilda Ratner's parody of Patti Smith.
  • June 6, 2014
    AgProv
    Also, are we still allowed to post possible trope header illustrations here? Because the front cover photo of Patti Smith's Easter LP would be perfect for this trope. New fans buying it because they loved the hit single ''Because The Night" would have discovered the singer, in a sleeveless top, defiantly flaunting her hairy armpits to emphasise her attitude towards social expectations of young women.

    Easter cover art
  • June 6, 2014
    AgProv
    I think I've interpreted the YKTTW guidelines correctly in that they say posting pictures in a YTTKW discussion isn't approved of (but they were a bit unclear.) so I've started a thread on "Image Picking discussion" and posted my proposed page image there:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1402059191018587900&page=1#1
  • June 6, 2014
    randomsurfer
    ^ Text links are OK, like your first post (other than the fact that the link is broken). The problem comes in when someone hotlinks to another site or even to the TV Tropes imagesource in such a way that the image shows up in the reply. That breaks the ykttw system and someone will complain and/or fix it.

    I'd like to know why the examples I gave other than Gilda Radner weren't accepted.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    @randomsurfer The two other examples I felt like weren't exactly part of the trope since they were just hypothetical mentions of the trope. Although, to be fair, I guess you could say they were examples of playing with the trope? I don't know the exact way though. Despite that, I added them in!

    Ag Prov, thanks for the edits. Also I replied in your other thread about the pic.

    Also, another day, another hat lost :(

    Could anyone who removed one explain exactly what changed in the past day to make you withdraw? The summary has been shortened, it has a good number of references, and I emphasized the contexts where the trope is employed so that it's not People Sit On Chairs territory. What else needs to be done?
  • ^ Y'know something objection? I honestly get the feeling that the hat removals are trolls. To lose all but one hat within a 24-hour period? Yeah, I'ma thinkin' trolls.

    I've tried to suplement your hat supply, but I'm assuming that once you give a YKTTW a hat, that's the only hat you can give, because I've tried giving you a couple of sympathy hats to make up for the removals, but they didn't go through.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    Yeah I dunno, Lurker. I'll keep working on it since a lot of work has gone into it so far.

    Added in a few more of the more vague examples. Tweaked a few other ones.

    I see a new tag for better name. Any feedback on that?
  • June 6, 2014
    Paradisesnake
    ^ The thing is, if a YKTTW suddenly drops from five hats to one, but no one gives a reason for the lost hats, then removing those hats means absolutely nothing. You can only fix problems that are actually pointed out, and if the people removing the hats are jerks enough not to even give a proper reason for their actions, then you can just ignore them.

    But if and when someone does point out a problem, you obviously need to fix it.

    And what it comes to the name, I don't see any problem with Hairy Girl.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    Alrighty, thanks for the advice. I'll just keep it around and people can suggest more references as they come up!
  • June 6, 2014
    AgProv
    Just added an alternative picture suggestion to the image thread: took the advice on board that Patti Smith was good up to a point, but not nearly obvious enough. I located a pic of the younger Maddonna Ciccione flauting convention (or having lost her pink razor).
  • June 6, 2014
    StrixObscuro
    Comic Books
    • In Wanted, one of the ways Wesley Gibson knows that his relationship with his girlfriend is falling apart is because she's not bothering to shave her legs anymore.
    • In Runaways, it's implied that Karolina stopped shaving her legs for a while after Xavin left her.
  • June 6, 2014
    Madrugada
    There were hats given because " I think it has potential" but Hats aren't for potential — a hat means "it's ready to go, right now, as it stands". Hats should also not be given for sympathy. I've removed one just now because I don't think it's ready yet.

    Right now, as it stands, the trope definition ("The inclusion of a Hairy Girl is generally for one of two reasons, either comedic effect or as a means to distinguish the character as counterculturist.") is almost a throwaway at the end of the first paragraph, followed by a multi-paragraph examination of female body hair in Real Life that would fit better on the Analysis page. This will almost certainly lead to lots of examples where the character or woman simply doesn't shave.

    It also doesn't mention a far more prevalent use: to indicate that the character is supposed to be considered unattractive or even repulsive.

    Neither the anime or Video game examples appear to be actual examples — there's nothing to indicate the women are countercultural or comedic.

  • June 6, 2014
    Madrugada
    I have also removed the Tropeworthy? — yes, it is: it's a choice made by a creator to reinforce or demonstrate a particular characteristic of the character; Motion to discard — unexplained; Needs Examples — there are plenty of examples, more than enough for a launch; and Needs a Better Name tags, and added "Description Needs Work"; the biggest problem it currently has in my opinion.
  • My God, you people are being picky, picky, picky; give Objection a break, s/he's been working hard on this thing, you everybody just keeps shitting on this: it was on the verge of being launched, now it has no hats at all. It has plenty of examples, the descriptions been re-written more than once, I don't know how much clearer it can be, unless people are just so thick that they comprehend any of this.

    Put all the hats back, and let's just launch the damn thing already; if not, if this apparently is so not tropeworthy, or since everybody seems to hate it, then discard it. Either way, this thing needs to be put out of its misery.
  • June 6, 2014
    lakingsif
    How did this get so many 'Tropeworthy?' Tags so quickly?

    Also, I propose this as going some way to improving the description.


    In Western culture, the majority of women tend to shave their body hair (e.g. leg, armpit, and pubic hair) for cosmetic reasons. Various media reflect this in fiction, as almost all female characters have smooth, hairless skin in the aforementioned regions. Typically this is also a signifier of beauty, as unshaven women and girls (most commonly legs or face) are criticised for such traits. Thus, the inclusion of a Hairy Girl is generally for one of three reasons: comedic effect, as a means to distinguish the character as counterculturist, or as an indicator that the character is perceived as unattractive — which may also be a source of comedy or showing that their counterculturalism is, also, seen as negative by potential romantic interests.

    In Real Life, girls who choose not to shave their body hair are generally associated with some forms of counterculture. In television, some reasons a character may choose to abstain from shaving or waxing include sticking it to the man, expressing their womanhood, or simply being lazy. Sometimes, though, the Hairy Girl is not a taboo in the context of the work's setting (perhaps its region or time period). This trope occurs most commonly with throw-away Granola Girl characters that writers portray as female hippies and feminists, but these are frequently just Played For Laughs as it's a "social taboo" in Western society. Another comedic use of the trope is for characters to mention French girls and the unshaven stereotype of them which exists in fiction probably more than in Real Life.

    Compare the New Age Retro Hippie and Granola Girl. Also compare with Bald Women, with girls having a lack of hair where it's expected to be. Contrast Perma Shave, which is often the complete inversion of this trope, especially in a situation where the women are in situations where shaving would be impossible. Not be confused with Girls With Moustaches, which focuses on the unnatural phenomenon of women possessing properly styled facial hair, rather than that "unsightly" fuzz on their top lip.
  • June 6, 2014
    DAN004
    You technically don't need hats to launch. This once have 5, anyway, so fix what you can fix and launch away.
  • June 6, 2014
    Paradisesnake
    ^ This. The people who keep tagging this have obviously chosen not to act civil and explain themselves, so as far as I see it, you don't need to take their opinions into account.
  • June 6, 2014
    Nasrudith
    Katniss Everdeen from The Hunger Games is mentioned as having hairy legs, Downplayed Example given that it comes up only for the sake of a Painful Body Waxing scene.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    How exactly are hats being constantly removed, and now tags are being removed too, then being spammed with Tropeworthy? Not to sound whiny, but it really does feel like this entire thread is being elaborately trolled. Who can even remove tags in the first place?

    I'll change the description to lakingsif's version, tweak it a tad more, and I'll add the remaining examples. Otherwise, DAN 004 you have a point. I'm just going to launch it since it had five hats just a day ago.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    There, I simplified and clarified the contexts even further. Rather than three specific uses, I simply explained it as two (negatively to elicit a "Haha gross!" reaction, or neutrally to show the girl as rebellious or rugged) which I think seems fair and clears up some of the debate of how this actually gets used by writers/artists, and applies to basically all of the given examples.

  • June 6, 2014
    lakingsif
    Italicise work names, remove red links still needs to be done. Currently, not ready to launch.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    Thanks for the tip. I'll get on it.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    Alrighty, red links are gone, and italicized the remaining titles.
  • June 6, 2014
    WaterBlap
    I think the "two different contexts" ought to be in a bulleted list to make easier for people who are skimming the article to see.
  • June 6, 2014
    lakingsif
    Here's the Image Discussion, for anyone interested, too.
  • June 6, 2014
    objection215
    Like that, Water Blap?
  • June 7, 2014
    WaterBlap
    Yes. I'm sure other people with more experience around here will have better advice; it's just that I keep thinking that some tropers would just go straight to the edit page rather than reading the whole article.
  • June 7, 2014
    objection215
    So then I guess this is ready for launch then.

    It's got a ton of references, is properly formatted, cleared away doubt of whether it's a trope or not by explaining the specific context, and it DID have 5 hats at one point.

    I suppose I will go ahead and launch then, since you're right. Some people may just want to go and edit the page.

    Thanks for the help so much, everyone!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=lcrun1rt5r7so0ltimew1dpc&trope=HairyGirl