Created By: XFllo on January 2, 2013 Last Edited By: XFllo on July 14, 2013
Troped

Referenced By

A list of Shout Outs which a work has received, Trivia-trope

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
This entry is trivia, which is cool and all, but not a trope. On a work, it goes on the Trivia tab.

Have you ever wanted to see the ultimate list of works where your favourite book or series was referenced? TV Tropes is a perfect place where to create that list, or to get as close as possible.

A Shout-Out is something subtle like a name, line of dialogue, or prop, or sometimes something very direct like a title drop known to mainstream culture, which points to another work of fiction. Shout Outs are given intentionally, often because the creators are fans of the work. It can be used for Lampshade Hanging when the characters compare themselves to concrete fictional characters. Take That is a negative Shout Out when the creators want to emphasise how much something sucked.

Referenced By is a reversal of Shout Out and related tropes. It's never intentional for the work that is referenced, which is why it's listed as Trivia -- an interesting bit of information we like noticing, collecting, and organizing, but which in itself is not a trope. [[note]]There might be rare instances when creators have a pact of referencing each other's work in their respective creations.[[/note]]

See also Reference Overdosed, Stock Shout-Out and its subpages, Homage, Pastiche, Opening Shout-Out, Shout-Out Theme Naming, The Joy of X, Literary Allusion Title, and Actor Allusion.
The page would be an index (compare for example Tear Jerker and its subpages, TearJerker.Literature, TearJerker.Theater etc.):

[[index]] [[/index]]
Community Feedback Replies: 39
  • January 2, 2013
    XFllo
    I already asked some time ago on Lost and Found whether we had a list of Shout Outs the work has received by other works of fiction and whether tropers would welcome this, and some reactions were positive. I know I get excited with shout outs and allusions, and this wiki would be a perfect place to list them.

    It would be a Trivia trope, and the list would only appear at the work's page (or perhaps its sub-page).

    Do you think it would be useful and fun?

    The sub-pages of Stock Shout Out are a good examples of it. For example, Alice Allusion lists Shout Outs to Alices Adventures In Wonderland. But the Stock Shout Out page states that number 42 pops up a lot and what is the source, but doesn't state which works it appears in. And I think it would be awesome to have that list.

    What I mean is that nearly every well-known and popular work would have such a list, say Star Trek franchise gets mentioned a lot, so the entries would point out where exactly the allusion appeared.

    One more concrete example: Gilmore Girls appeared once on Six Feet Under. Ideally there is a Shout Out that mentions this on the Six Feet Under page, but I would like to see it also in Trivia section of Gilmore Girls as well, stating that one episode of Six Feet Under had mother and daughter (who are annoying relatives of Ruth) watch the show and think they have similar relationship as Lorelai and Rory, which disgusts Claire who thinks such closeness is impossible in Real Life.
  • January 2, 2013
    SeptimusHeap
    This name is quite misleading - I thought it was about being shouted out, not a snowclone of Shout Out.
  • January 2, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ I see. Do you think any of the proposed alternative titles is any better? I must confess that I had a hard time with the trope name.
  • January 2, 2013
    SeptimusHeap
    I honestly am not sure what to name it beyond Referenced By.

    I also recommend to ask for examples there but to cut them when you launch it and add them to Trivia pages. Pages can't thrive if they don't get links, and even if the examples don't stay here they will provide links to your page once added to their Trivia pages.
  • March 14, 2013
    XFllo
    Once I get my other tropes launched, I will try to focus on this one.
  • May 20, 2013
    XFllo
    OK, this is what I ran across at Literature.Sharpe. Somebody had the same idea, but listed both as tropes. The Shout Out a work gets must be trivia because it hardly can be intentional (unless some authors request it or do at as a favour, or whatever).

    • Shout Out: A good many, in both directions:
      • Examples of shout outs to other works:
        • Cornwell ties in his novel Sharpe's Escape into C.S. Forester's 1932 novel Death To The French by implying that Forester's protagonist, Rifleman Matthew Dodd, was part of Sharpe's Light Company during the Battle of Bussaco (Cornwell later confirmed that the Dodd in his novel is supposed to be the Dodd from Forester's). Death To The French, which follows the wartime adventures of a British rifleman who is separated from his Regiment during that battle, was likely one of the inspirations for the Sharpe novels.
        • George Wickham, a military officer and antagonist of the TV-only story Sharpe's Justice, shares a name with a character from Pride And Prejudice, who is also a military officer and an antagonist.
        • In the book Sharpe's Tiger, the Moonstone from Wilkie Collins' novel of the same name makes a brief cameo appearance. Sharpe steals it.
        • Rifleman Benjamin Harris was named after a soldier in the Real Life 95th Rifles, who dictated (he was illiterate) a story of his memories from the Peninsular Campaign, and whose book served as an inspiration for the Sharpe series.
      • Examples of shout outs in other works to the Sharpe series:
        • In Cornwell's own Gallows Thief, a murder mystery set after Waterloo, the protagonist is an Army veteran whose life was once saved by a Rifle officer and his men.
        • Cornwell's American Civil War series, The Starbuck Chronicles, includes a French officer traveling with the Confederate Army as an observer. It's clear to readers of the Sharpe series from context that this man is Richard Sharpe's son.
        • The Fields of Death, part of a "parallel lives" series about Napoleon and Wellington by Simon Scarrow, features a Rifle officer named Richard who unusually carries a rifle like the rankers.
        • Ads for PC game Empire: Total War featured a very Sean Beanish redcoat in them, which seems odd until one considers that Sharpe dons his signature green jacket much later. (In Napoleon: Total War, as it were.)
        • The ''Doctor Who'' novel World Game features a post-Assaye Wellesley musing on the field commission he's just given to Sergeant Sharpe.
  • May 20, 2013
    Elbruno
    Do we really need this? I mean, some works out there are referenced all over the place, listing all the works that have referenced them in one way or the other not only will be a massive wall of text, but also not much useful. We are already listing the references a work makes to another in Shout Out, so I see making a list of the opposite as redundant.
  • May 21, 2013
    SeptimusHeap
    They aren't really usable as both.
  • May 21, 2013
    XFllo
    Well I would really like that, but it would not break my heart if it's not green lit. Though some works get referenced so often hat it becomes a trope in itself, see Alice Allusion.
  • May 21, 2013
    WeAreAllKosh
    I'm gonna hat this (not sure if something for trivia pages needs to be hatted), because I've been thinking something along those lines should exist too.

    ^^^ "We are already listing the references a work makes to another in Shout Out, so I see making a list of the opposite as redundant."

    No, it's not redundant, but the reverse--it shows what other works referenced that work, not what works a work references. For utility purposes they're very different: If you want to know what other works shouted out to a paricular work, Shout Out won't really help you because you'd have to look through each work listed (and there are tons of them) to see if they reference that work you're interested in. This would put the names of all those works in one place.

    For instance, say I wanted to find out what other works have referenced Babylon 5. Right now with Shout Out I'd have to look through all the genre pages and scroll through all the entries (and work subpages) to spot any Babylon 5 references. With this, all I'd have to do is look under Babylon 5's trivia tab, and find a handy list of works that reference Babylon 5.

    If we do this, I'll be happy to work on those trivia pages where I can.
  • May 21, 2013
    DracMonster
    Honestly I'd love this concept, and agree it might work better as a subpage added to a work, like Fan Fic Recs. That would need some hard-coding by the management, though.
  • May 22, 2013
    XFllo
    ^^ & ^ Thank you for such enthusiastic reactions. That's exactly my point. I got this idea in one forum, I think it was Television Without Pity, that tried to find and list all Shout Outs to The X Files. And I immediately thought: How cool would that be if I could find it in one place, not having to scroll down through several posts. This wiki seems to be the very place.

    Subpages would be probably ideal. Some works get referenced a lot. A lot a lot.
  • May 24, 2013
    XFllo
    Yay, two hats! Only... the description really needs to be improved. Any ideas what to write?
  • May 28, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    I think this would be really useful as a subpage, since in many cases the list of Shout Outs is way too big to be listed in detail on the work page. There is, however, very little we regular tropers can do about this. Like DracMonster said, we need an answer from the management.
  • May 28, 2013
    UltramarineAlizarin
    The description can include a clarification about the difference between this and Shout Out (which direction does the reference go?) Sure, long-time users are already intimately familiar with Shout Out, but we can avoid newcomers writing "this is an inversion because work A referenced work B, instead of being referenced by work B."

    Also, possibly compare Trope Overdosed, for works that have loads of wicks. And the opposite, Overdosed Tropes (and Omnipresent Tropes), for tropes that show up in a lot of works.
  • May 28, 2013
    abloke
    Stock Shout Outs is the only one I know.

    I like this idea. I've looked through the "Related To" pages of a lot of works trying to find references to them, and this would be more convenient. Maybe pages for works an franchises with a lot of references (are we doing this by medium?) could be soft split according to which specific work is being referenced, or the medium of the work that's making the reference.

    Would it help if, before this page is launched, people compiled lists of references to specific works to go on the pages and posted them on this thread?
  • May 28, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ I think it would help a lot, as Septimus said in his first comments -- tropes and pages don't flourish if they don't have internal links.

    I'll try to work on the description, but if anyone has time sooner than I do, please feel free to take over it.
  • May 29, 2013
    abloke
    I've done one work to start with. These are some of the references I could find to Red Dwarf. I don't know if these would be enough for its own page, but this is how I'd suggest setting pages like that out. I've written these on the assumption that the reader is fairly familiar with the work that's being referenced.

    Fan Fiction

    Film

    Video Games

    • In Wizards And Warriors, there is a tavern named The Red Dwarf.
      • One of the Thieves Guild leaders is named The Cat.
    • Rise Of The Triad features a character whose first names are Sebastian Doyle, Lister's name in the Back To Reality universe.
      • One of the music tracks is named "Run Like Smeg".
    • In Warp Force, the player can receive an SOS call from "Red Dwarf", which turns out to be a star, not a ship. Near it is a mining corporation, which employs a dwarf named Lister.
    • The Jupiter Mining Corporation appears in Orbiter
    • In Zombies Run, a character is compared to Ace Rimmer.
    • Video Game/Startopia features service robots named "Scuzzers", in reference to the Dwarf universe's Scutter droids.
    • In the second-generation Pokemon games and their remakes, there are three Bug Catchers on Route 2. The ones who are close together are named Rob and Doug; the other is named Ed.
    • In Ratchet Deadlocked, there is a superhero named Ace Hardlight. Much like Rimmer, he is nowhere near as heroic as he likes to make out.

    Web Animation

    • In a Zero Punctuation review, Yahtzee refers to a man sending his gazpacho soup back to be warmed up.

    Web Comics

    • Exterminatus Now features a protestor with the slogan "Give Quiche A Chance" on a sign.
      • Another strip has a reference to Meltdown.
      • Another has a character claim to be "surrounded by goits".
  • May 29, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ Very nice! Only I would add the context because tropers shouldn't assume that readers know the work. I think Zero Context Example policy applies here as well. As an avid Red Dwarf fan, I could expand most entries myself. But some of them don't say much (e.g. which strip referenced "Meltdown" and how, and as I don't read the strip, I don't know how).

    And I will nitpick a bit -- there is some incorrect Example Indentation. The correct would be:
    • Show:
      • Example 1.
      • Example 2.

    But great start with examples and wicks, so many thanks to you. :-)
  • May 29, 2013
    abloke
    The format I used was a suggestion for works or franchises which have a lot of references and could have their own pages. I'm not sure whether there are enough Dwarf references to warrant one for it specifically, but that's the format I'd suggest.
  • June 1, 2013
    Kayube
    One thing I should mention is that the Shout Out entry on the Kamen Rider page fits this better, since it's a list of shout-outs to Kamen Rider.
  • June 1, 2013
    XFllo
    ^ Then it should be copied here :-) and deleted from the page. That is actually misusing the trope.
  • July 1, 2013
    XFllo
    Perhaps it could be launched even without the special folder like Fan Fic Rec or Radar have. We could launch the page and set it up as index.

    For instance Complete Monster has now such a look. Only it's YMMV and this one would be Trivia.

    Complete Monster etc.

    It could look like this:

    Referenced By:
  • ^ You may just have to note that Alice Allusion is a separate trope and only list miscellaneous Alice references.
  • July 1, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^ Well, it's just obvious that those kind of pages will become redundant if and when this gets done.
  • July 1, 2013
    XFllo
    Not really. They shoudln't be confused. It would have to be agreed that they are also trivia-tropes... But Shout Out To Shakespeare or Alice Allusion are creator's choices. They put them willingly into their work. For the work, it's a trope, e.g. when Archie Kennedy of Hornblower quotes Antony And Cleopatra.

    For the source of the allusion, it's just an interesting bit of trivia. They couldn't influence it... hence, not a trope. Hornblower is just a work that referenced it for A&C.
  • July 2, 2013
    crazysamaritan
    I don't understand what you're saying.

    Work A does a Shout Out to Work B. Work B is Referenced By Work A.

    Alice Allusion is Alice In Wonderland as Work B. The page lists any Work A that does a Shout Out. That makes Alice Allusion a Referenced By trope.
  • July 2, 2013
    XFllo
    I'm saying that just because we could be listing references, we are not going to cut a trope. Both have slightly different focus.
  • July 2, 2013
    crazysamaritan
    ^ of course we wouldn't cut Alice Allusion! All of the Stock Shout Out tropes are still good pages, and would be sub tropes of Referenced by. A ReferencedBy.Alices Adventures In Wonderland would be redundant to Alice Allusion. So link or redirect. Why cut a working trope?
  • ^ No it wouldn't. We could simply list other references.
  • July 6, 2013
    DragonQuestZ
    I've thought of such a trope before, and so I support this. Can you imagine how big the Star Wars and Lord Of The Rings pages will be?
  • July 6, 2013
    SeptimusHeap
    They would be huge, I think.
  • July 6, 2013
    XFllo
    Also Star Trek.
  • July 9, 2013
    crazysamaritan
    Any Long Runner has the potential of being huge. I know I'll be adding a few thousand words for the Lupin III page.
  • July 9, 2013
    crazysamaritan
    @Panctice Squad Cutterback - last line on Alice Allusion:

    Conversely, references to Alice in Wonderland can be listed even if they don't specifically use the name "Alice", since they are not a distinct trope.
  • July 10, 2013
    XFllo
    Ok, it looks like we seriously need to launch it so that people can start adding the references. However, I don't have time to write a good description...

    Also, regarding this being made into a sub-page, if I understand that correctly, once the small-icon-thingy gets chosen for the Name Space (which would be Referenced By), it can later be made part of the wiki coding.
  • July 10, 2013
    TonyG
    I've noticed that a lot of Shout Out examples on work pages are to instances of the show being referenced by other shows, rather than the other way around. A Referenced By page could be the perfect place for those.
  • July 12, 2013
    XFllo
    Ok, I worked a bit on the description. Not anything too great, I'm afraid. It mostly repeats what a Shout O Ut is and that this is its reversal and that it's a trivia thing for the work that gets referenced.

    I'll send an PM to Eddie asking about the sub-page.

    I'm Hopeless With Tech but I really suspect that once it's launched and once it gets its own little icon (like those for namespaces Series/ (a little tv set), Film/ (a film reel), WebVideo/ (a web video button, is chosen but not in use yet), FanFicRec/(a pen and a piece of paper) etc.), it will work just fine.

    BTW, there was a suggestion that Shout Out could have a loud speaker for its icon. Something similar could work for Referenced By as well.
  • July 12, 2013
    XFllo
    I would like to launch it soon. Eddie wrote to me that we should be using the namespace Referenced By.

    However, it will need lots of work and lots of cross-wicking.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=kst94wwh9vbjgdcq4fp739vm