Created By: vynsane on January 24, 2012 Last Edited By: DAN004 on October 5, 2014
Troped

Weird Historical War

Conventional, historical war with sci-fi, fantasy or supernatural elements thrown in.

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
DAN 004 wuz ere takin over ur druft


Tags: Needs More Examples, Do We Have This, Rolling Updates

Crowner

Your standard Nazi troopers, now with zombies!

This specific flavor of Alternate History, or when the story is really historical but with unnoted elements, deals with a point of divergence that occurs during a large-scale war, usually (but not limited to) World War One or World War II. The divergence involves sci-fi, fantasy or supernatural elements added to the war's events. Examples can include use of weapons or technology that haven't been invented yet, vampire and/or werewolf soldiers, mysticism, and alien intervention.

This trope differs from Fantasy Conflict Counterpart in that this trope is the real war plus "extras", where Fantasy Conflict Counterpart is the war Recycled In Space.

World War II examples will overlap heavily with Ghostapo, Stupid Jetpack Hitler and We Didn't Start The Führer. Often is a sub-trope of Diesel Punk and Reality Retcon.


Examples

Comic Books
  • Arrowsmith is set in an Alternate History Earth in which the United States of America is actually the United States of Columbia, Magic is real, and the World War One is fought with and by dragons, spells, Vampires and all other kinds of magical weapons and beings.
  • Atomic Robo features the eponymous nuclear-powered automaton in adventures throughout his 80-year backstory. So far one story has taken place during his time as a soldier in World War II.
  • The Captain America franchise in general. The USA and Germany both have science research departments that result in Super Soldier programs, crazy technologies, weird semi-demonic villains, and more.
  • Hellboy - On the brink of defeat, the Nazis, with the help of Grigori Rasputin, are about to bring forth The End of the World as We Know It.
  • Dr. Manhattan was used as a weapon in Vietnam in Watchmen, which changed the course of the war.
  • David Brin's The Life-Eaters is premised on the idea that mass human sacrifice can create godlike beings, which the Nazis use to create Nordic gods to fight for them. Then other countries get in on the game, and things get pretty horrible.
  • "The Haunted Tank," a series running in DC Comics' G.I. Combat. During WWII Lt. Jeb Stuart is the head of a tank crew and the tank is haunted by his namesake, Confederate general J.E.B. Stuart.
  • There is an independent comic book called Über which attempts to deconstruct the typical comic book trope of super humans being used in World War II, instead painting them as walking Weapons of Mass Destruction that leave plenty of Gorn behind wherever they're deployed (especially when facing regular troops).
  • Zig Zagged Trope in DC Comics: While there were several war-time comics in Real Life showcasing superheroes like Superman helping the war effort (and the Axis upping the ante on various ways), a Retcon was done eventually saying that Hitler had in his possession the Spear of Destiny, which could shut down the powers of any superhuman within a given (yet undefined) radius, which prevented any superhero from simply blitzing Berlin on his/her own and ending the war early.

Eastern Animation
  • The Malaysian animated film War Of The Worlds: Goliath combines the War of the Worlds with the World War I timeframe. Set in a 1914 after the initial Martian invasion and wherein mankind has tank tripods and technology reverse-engineered from Martian tech, the first world war threatens to break. However all that is put aside when the Martians attempt a second invasion. What was supposed to be World War I is turned into the second War of the Worlds, with the likes of Manfred von Richthofen the Red Baron and Theodore Roosevelt fighting together in a united special organization against Martians.

Film
  • Hellboy - Following suit with the source material, we have Rasputin and Kroenen bringing about The End of the World as We Know It, and Hitler being an accomplished mystic himself, dying in 1958 - not at the end of World War II as everyone thinks.
  • The Indiana Jones film series (particularly Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade) revels in the idea that Hitler had a secret wing of his military searching for weapons of biblical proportions.
  • The Rocketeer - The US hasn't entered WWII yet, but the Nazis already plan on invading utilizing stolen jetpack designs invented by Howard Hughes.
  • Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow - Subverted, in that the actual war seems to be over, but the world is a much different place, featuring private militaries, Humongous Mecha, robotic fighter planes, Airborne Aircraft Carriers, and amphibious fighter planes.
  • Sucker Punch. One of the action sequences takes place during a sci-fi-infused version of World War One in which The Kaiser's scientists have figured out a way to bring dead German soldiers back to the front lines using steam power and clockwork. There are Humongous Mecha fighting triplanes, Zeppelins from Another World, and AK-47s thrown into the mix.
  • Happened in the backstory of Iron Sky, when the Nazis evacuated their Antarctic base and fled to the moon with the aid of antigrav vehicles.
  • In Bedknobs and Broomsticks, mages contribute to the war effort, and the climax sees the Nazis in a hopeless struggle against reanimated armor from British wars of old.
  • Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter: in The American Civil War, the Confederacy employs vampire troops. Abe only managed to win the war by using silver weapons.
  • In the short film 1945A, the Germans field a giant spider-like mech against the Allies, complete with a laser death ray.
  • In The Incredible Mr. Limpet Mr. Limpet - a former human, now a fish - uses his "thrum" call to guide Allied subs to German subs in order to sink them. The Germans develop a special torpedo which homes in on thrums.

Literature
  • "The Fantastic World War II" includes stories by A.E. Van Vogt, C.M. Kornbluth, Lester Del Rey, and Harry Turtledove. Basically every story is an example of the genre of "weird WWII" in some way or another. It includes such stories about Sir Francis Drake participating in the Dunkirk evacuation, Count Dracula dining on Nazis, a Nazi teleportation device, and an entire army of cloned Hitlers.
  • Subverted in Harry Potter - Grindelwald played a big part in World War II. Had it not been for Dumbledore's intervention, perhaps it WOULD have changed history.
  • The Guns of the South, by Harry Turtledove. Racists from the future travel back in time and give modern machine guns to the (at that point in The American Civil War) losing Southern army. Needless to say, they crush the North after receiving this unfair advantage.
  • Leviathan takes place during an Alternate History World War One fought between the Steampunk technology-using Clankers (Central Axis) and the Darwinists (Allies), who are using genetically engineered animals.
  • The non-fiction book My Tank Is Fight! by Zack Parson shows the various Real Life plans drawn up by both sides in WWII. Had any of these been built, they would have certainly qualified for this trope. Examples include the Nazi Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte, a super-large tank that would have been 35 feet long and over one thousand tons heavy, and the Allied aircraft carrier made of ice.
  • Worldwar by Harry Turtledove involves the Earth invaded by aliens during World War II.
  • The Temeraire series is the Napoleonic Wars with dragons.
  • The short stories "Missile Gap" and "A Colder War" by Charles Stross are the Cold War with added Cthulhu Mythos.
  • Mike Mignola's Baltimore, or The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire starts in the trenches of WWI, when the protagonist is attacked by vampires, their bloodlust awakened by the slaughter.
  • Two of the Elemental Masters novels (Phoenix and Ashes and Unnatural Issue) refer to magic being used by spies on both sides of World War I. The second also has a necromantic summoning in No Man's Land, which goes as well as you'd expect with all that raw material around.
  • In the Rivers of London series, WW2 had a distinct supernatural flavour in the background with the Germans doing all sorts of nasty things at Ettersberg (better known as Buchenwald concentration camp) involving death magic. The battle to shut down the Nazi's supernatural weapons at Ettersberg also destroyed the Allies magical corps too.
  • The Bartimaeus Trilogy indicates a few times that the American colonies, which never became independent in this setting, are gathering resources and wizards to fight a fantasy version of The American Revolution. This has the wizardly rulers of Britain very concerned.
  • Lammas Night, by Katherine Kurtz, follows the magical Battle of Britain that was fought alongside the publicly-known one, with archmage Adolf Hitler's Nazi coven fighting the witches and mystics of the British isles.
  • Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell has magicians helping out in the Napoleonic wars.
  • Appears in the backstory of Percy Jackson and the Olympians — apparently World War II was caused in part and fought largely by warring demigod children of Zeus, Poseidon and Hades. The effects were so devastating that they vowed never to have children after the war. Only Hades kept it.
    • In the sequel series, The Heroes of Olympus, the American Civil War was apparently caused by feuding Roman and Greek demigods.

Tabletop Games
  • Pinnacle Games published a Weird Wars line of d20 games taking place in Real Life past and future wars with supernatural additions. For example, Weird War II had the PCs playing Allied soldiers during World War II, but the Nazis had mutant soldiers, characters could use haunted vehicles and cast spells, and there were monsters. Lots of monsters. The Updated Re-release of the game line for Savage Worlds so far includes World War II ("Weird War II"), The Vietnam War ("Tour Of Darkness"), and the Roman Empire and its campaigns of conquest ("Weird Wars Rome").
  • The GURPS "World War II" line included Weird War II. Want to use rune magic to send giant monsters against the alien supersoldiers working for the other side? It's in here. (note: Despite the name similarity, this isn't part of the Pinnacle series.)
    • After the Hellstorm in 1945, a number of real-world wars still went ahead with China facing stiff resistance from magic Tibetian monks in their invasion of 1950 and Iranian Revolution takes place while Shah is being treated for vampiric leukaemia in the United States in 1979. The supplement, "Funny New Guys" focuses on roleplaying the Vietnam War if it were fought using wizards and dragons.
  • Dream Pod 9's Gear Krieg setting is a World War II which has both sides using Pulp Weird Science and most importantly Humongous Mecha of varying types (Mini-Mecha and Transforming Mecha standing modeled after and standing in for real-world military hardware, for example).
  • Secrets Of The Third Reich. World War II is still going on in 1949 (and going further into Alternate History as things go on) with an All Myths Are True Fantasy Kitchen Sink situation, with such things as Nazi zombie troopers, vampires, Powered Armor soldiers and Mini-Mecha being fought with Captain America Expies made from technology obtained from the Roswell UFO, a British Hero Unit that is a reincarnation of King Arthur, soldiers with Psychic Powers and Weird Science Military Mashup Machines.
  • In Deadlands, The American Civil War was complicated by the sudden awakening of magical forces. The war now includes features like zombies and Steampunk mad science devices. While not the main focus, the supplement Deadlands: Noir also provides info about how World War I went on this universe.
  • The Call of Cthulhu RPG has a supplement called "Achtung Cthulhu!", which is about Cthulhu Mythos and World War 2.
  • The miniature game DUST Tactics is about an alternative history World War 2 featuring walking tanks, powered armour, Nazi zombies and the like.

VideoGames
  • The Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series deals with Albert Einstein developing a time machine during World War 2, finally finishing it in 1946 and killing Hitler in 1924, only to have World War II now involve America and her Allies (including Germany) fighting the Soviet Union and their allies.
  • Operation Darkness involves werewolves and firestarters, Jack the Ripper, and a descendant of the Van Helsing family working as Allied commandos versus Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany. Hitler is an archmage and has allies including a vampire. Oh yeah, Hitler can also summon a dragon and skeleton warriors to even out the odds.
  • In Ring of Red, Nazi Germany had been able to create Armored Fighting Walkers or AFWs in order to give the Wehrmacht a fighting edge against Allied troops. Due to the European terrain, they only saw limited service and instead, were used by North and South Japanese troops before and after the Japanese War when Japan was divided by the Allied Forces.
  • The Silent Storm series features the use of human-sized mecha called Panzerkliens, which were supplied by a terrorist group called Thor's Hammer to both Allied and Axis forces in order to reap off the profits while they waited for both factions to weaken each other off before they would start plans to take over the world.
  • Sengoku Basara features various wars in Feudal Japan, and some of the playable characters uses modern equipments such as chainsaws, variety of guns, and at least one Humongous Mecha.
  • In Call of Cthulhu: The Wasted Land (set during World War One), you lead a small squad of British and American investigators in the Eastern French battlefield, attempting to stop the German to create an army of Undead and Eldritch Abominations. The game then received a prequel DLC campaign in which you play as Docktor [sic] Kaul, the Big Bad of the main campaign.

Webcomics

Western Animation

Community Feedback Replies: 141
  • January 24, 2012
    Noaqiyeum
  • January 24, 2012
    arromdee
    World War by Harry Turtledove involves the Earth invaded by aliens during World War II.
  • January 24, 2012
    OmarKarindu
    World War II examples will overlap heavily with Ghostapo and Stupid Jetpack Hitler.
  • January 24, 2012
    nman
    Why not jumble the current title and call it "World War Weird"? Is it okay to put a movie that isn't out yet, like Iron Sky?

    • The Command And Conquer Red Alert Series deals with Albert Einstein developing a time machine during World War 2, finally finishing it in 1946 and killing Hitler in 1924, only to have World War II now involve America and her Allies (including Germany) fighting the Soviet Union and their allies.
    • The Captain America franchise in general. The USA and Germany both have science research departments that result in Super Soldier programs, crazy technologies, weird semi-demonic villains, and more.
  • January 24, 2012
    Antigone3
    Tabletop Games: The GURPS "World War II" line included Weird War II. Want to use rune magic to send giant monsters against the alien supersoldiers working for the other side? It's in here.
  • January 24, 2012
    Shnakepup
    • The non-fiction book My Tank Is Fight! by Zack Parson shows the various Real Life plans the Nazis had drawn up for WWII tanks and other vehicles, which if they had been built would have certainly qualified for this trope. For example, the Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte, a super-large tank that would have been 35 feet long and over one thousand tons heavy. Other examples include bizarre spinning rocket planes and an aircraft carrier made out of ice.
  • January 24, 2012
    JonnyB
    This would be a sub-trope of Diesel Punk.
  • January 24, 2012
    ThreeferFAQMinorityChick
    Leviathan takes place in a First World War fought between the steampunk technology-using Clankers (Central Axis) and the Darwinists (Allies), who are using genetically engineered animals.
  • January 24, 2012
    Noaqiyeum
    ^^ This is usually a sub-trope of Diesel Punk. Arrowsmith is Alternate History with magic, and Sucker Punch is an outright Anachronism Stew.
  • January 24, 2012
    JonnyB
    In the Sky Captain reference above: The film is set in 1939, so the war isn't over. Actually, in Sky Captain's alternate past, the 2nd World War never even took place (and apparently neither did the Great Depression). An image is shown of Germany's Reichstag, but the Nazi swastika is conspicuously absent. In fact a newspaper shown during the film indicates that Germany is about to be invited into the League of Nations.
  • January 24, 2012
    level10peon
    • In another book by Harry Turtledove, The Guns Of The South, racists from the future travel back in time and give modern machine guns to the (at that point in the war) losing southern army. Needless to say, they crush the north after receiving this unfair advantage.
  • January 24, 2012
    vynsane
    ^^ Other than the newspaper hinting at Germany being invited to the Lo N none of that is implicitly or explicitly revealed in the film itself and none of that information is on the work's page here or at The Other Wiki. If it's Word Of God, so be it, but I've not heard any of that stated as fact. The fact that the British Military has so many Airborne Aircraft Carrier s and there's enough work for Joe's private military operation begs to differ. From what I've read and seen, it's up in the air as to whether WWII was more of a limited skirmish, still raging, already over, or never happened.

    Original post updated with all examples.

    As for the name, I think Weird World War is the most instantly descriptive, but we should have a redirect set up for Weird War (which is already used by certain circles) and World War Weird.
  • January 25, 2012
    Arivne
    Tabletop RPG
    • Pinnacle Games published a Weird Wars line of d20 games taking place in Real Life past and future wars with supernatural additions. For example, Weird War II had the PCs playing Allied soldiers during World War II, but the Nazis had mutant soldiers, characters could use haunted vehicles and cast spells, and there were monsters. Lots of monsters.
  • January 25, 2012
    somerandomdude
  • January 25, 2012
    JobanGrayskull
    Don't know if these count:

    (Technically it didn't change history), but supposedly Grindelwald from Harry Potter played a big part in World War 2. Had it not been for Dumbledore's intervention, perhaps it WOULD have changed history.

    (Not a world war) Dr. Manhattan was used as a weapon in Vietnam in Watchmen, which changed the course of the war.

  • January 25, 2012
    Treblain
    I actually own a short story collection called "The Fantastic World War II". It includes stories by A.E. Van Vogt, C.M. Kornbluth, Lester Del Rey, and Harry Turtledove. Basically every story is an example of the genre of "weird WWII" in some way or another, and the cover would make a great page image. It includes such stories about Sir Francis Drake participating in the Dunkirk evacuation, Count Dracula dining on Nazis, a Nazi teleportation device, and an entire army of cloned Hitlers.
  • January 25, 2012
    SKJAM
    DC Comics had a series entitled Weird War; heavily on the supernatural side.
  • January 26, 2012
    vynsane
    Updated.

    I don't think it needs to be a World War to qualify, so I put in the Watchmen example. The Harry Potter example definitely fits as a subversion in that our history wasn't changed, but accepting the use of magic during World War II definitely redefines our concept of how the war was fought.

    Treblain - The Fantastic World War II - is there a wikipedia entry (or another source) with a Creative Commons picture of the cover?
  • January 26, 2012
    TBeholder
    It's a bit mixed up. Is it supposed to be "Alternate History - But With A War"? Or "Alternate History With Vampires - But With A War"? Or "Alternate History point of divergence - But With A War"?
  • January 26, 2012
    vynsane
    The laconic really says it all: Conventional, historical war with sci-fi, fantasy or supernatural elements thrown in.
  • January 26, 2012
    Noaqiyeum
    Yeah... not really sure how that's misinterpretable.
  • January 26, 2012
    Antigone3
    Minor nitpick on the My Tank Is Fight entry -- it's not just Nazi inventions; the ice aircraft carrier and flying tanks were Allied insanities.
  • January 26, 2012
    Duncan
    The Temeraire series is the Napoleonic War with Dragons.
  • December 30, 2013
    foxley
    Is this Up For Grabs?
  • December 31, 2013
    arbiter099
    Throwing my two cents in for World War Weird, flows smoother and fits better with the WWI, WWII, WWIII naming scheme. Conjures images of a fight that started with bombs and bullets and turned into a piefight with hawkmen and clowns.
  • December 31, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    If the war in question doesn't have to be a world war, why does the title even contain the word?
  • December 31, 2013
    Ominae
    • Operation Darkness involves werewolves and firestarters, including Jack the Ripper and a descendant of the Van Helsing family working as Allied commandos versus Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany, who is an archmage and has allies including a vampire. Oh yeah, Hitler can also summon a dragon and skeleton warriors to even out the odds.
  • December 31, 2013
    kjnoren
    I think time traveling stories should be excluded here (like The Guns Of The South), with the possible exception if it's the "native timeline" people who develop it.

    See also Recycled In Space (which does include fantasy) and Roman A Clef.

    Not sure I like including the phrase World War in the trope name. It will likely mean that we will miss out on non-World War Two and non-World War One examples. What about Weird War or War Of The Weird?

    As for sorting, I think chronologically per when the "real" war started would be best.

    Literature:

  • December 31, 2013
    m8e
    ^^^To me Weird World War and World War Weird have different meanings.

    An Weird World War is a world war that's extra weird in some way. World War Weird is the weirdness that come from a world war, normal or not.
  • December 31, 2013
    ryanasaurus0077
    In Bedknobs And Broomsticks, mages contribute to the war effort, and the climax sees the Nazis in a hopeless struggle against reanimated armor from British wars of old.
  • December 31, 2013
    Paradisesnake
    ^^ That still doesn't explain why the word "world" is needed in the title.
  • December 31, 2013
    Dalillama
    [AC: Comics]
    • David Brin's The Life-Eaters, is premised on the idea that mass human sacrifice can create godlike beings, which the Nazis use to create Nordic gods to fight for them. Then other countries get in on the game, and things get pretty horrible.

    [AC: Literature]
    • Mike Mignola's [[Baltimore, Baltimore or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire]] starts in the trenches of WWI, when the protagonist is attacked by vampires, their bloodlust awakened by the slaughter.

  • December 31, 2013
    kjnoren
  • December 31, 2013
    DAN004
    So it can be any historical war that adds weird elements in it?
  • January 1, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Made an update to the Tabletop RPG "Weird Wars" entry.

    An immense amount of recent (about as early as The Nineties and gaining some "popularity" post-declaration of The War On Terror) B-Movies have had soldiers fighting monsters over on the Middle East (about 50/50 or 70/30 of the plots being divided into "soldiers disturb Things Man Was Not Meant To Know during routine mission, have to fight summoned monster" and "fanatical insurgents summon monster to destroy American forces and assert superiority (at the total disregard of the many warnings that Evil Is Not A Toy), soldiers and The Worm Guy du jour have to destroy it" and the occasional "Second Irak War provides cover for some secret project, things Go Horribly Wrong, high-ups decide to Send In The Search Team").
  • January 1, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    More Tabletop Game (possible) examples:

    -Dream Pod 9's Gear Krieg setting (World War Two which has both sides using Pulp Weird Science and most importantly Humongous Mecha of varying types (Mini Mecha and Transforming Mecha standing modeled after and standing in for real-world military hardware, for example)).

    -Secrets Of The Third Reich, with World War Two still going on in 1949 (and going further into Alternate History as things go on) and an All Myths Are True Fantasy Kitchen Sink situation, with such things as Nazi zombie troopers, vampires, Powered Armor soldiers and Mini Mecha being fought with Captain America Expies made from technology obtained from the Roswell UFO, a British Hero Unit that is a reincarnation of King Arthur, soldiers with Psychic Powers and Weird Science Military Mashup Machines.
  • January 1, 2014
    Arivne
    If this is going to include non-world war examples the word "world" needs to be dropped from the title for clarity. Weird War would be OK.
  • January 1, 2014
    randomsurfer
    "The Haunted Tank," a series running in DC Comics' G.I. Combat. During WWII Lt. Jeb Stuart is the head of a tank crew and the tank is haunted by his namesake, Confederate general J.E.B. Stuart.
  • January 1, 2014
    dalek955
  • January 1, 2014
    foxley
    In Deadlands, the American Civil War was complicated by the sudden awakening of magical forces. The war no includes features like zombies and steampunk mad science devices.
  • January 2, 2014
    DAN004
    Weird Historical War then. ("Historical" is important)

    Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter has one, in the form of American Civil War: The Confederate's side employs vampire troops. Abe only managed to win the war by using silver weapons.
  • January 2, 2014
    kjnoren
    I get some weird vibes out of that one (and Historical Weird War too). Weird Historical War I interpret as just about any strange historical war. I thought I could fix that with Historical Weird War, but that one feels just strange.

    But it might be just me. Historical War With Added Weird? Kinda long, but very clear. War With Added Weird also kinda works.
  • January 2, 2014
    CrypticMirror
    In Rivers Of London series, WW 2 had a distinct supernatural flavour in the background with the Germans doing all sorts of nasty things at Ettersberg (better known as Buchenwald concentration camp) involving death magic. The battle to shut down the Nazi's supernatural weapons at Ettersberg also destroyed the Allies magical corp too.
  • January 2, 2014
    randomsurfer
    DC Comics: In a 1980s Retcon it's shown that during WWII Adolph Hitler used the Spear of Destiny specifically to keep US based superheroes out of the war.
  • January 2, 2014
    foxley
    I quite like World War Weird. It's got a nice ring to it, and Tropes Are Flexible after all.
  • January 2, 2014
    DAN004
    Add my example plz?
  • January 11, 2014
    Alucard
    The Resistance series takes place in an alternate history where World War 2 never happened, due to a myriad of reasons, and is effectively replaced by the Chimeran war.
  • January 11, 2014
    ryanasaurus0077
    Does "witches vs. Nazis" even count as this?
  • January 11, 2014
    StarSword
    I like World War Weird, too. But unfortunately tropers have a pattern of not looking past the title. Gotta say Needs A Better Title.

    Literature:
    • The Bartimaeus Trilogy indicates a few times that the American colonies, which never became independent in this setting, are gathering resources and wizards to fight a fantasy version of The American Revolution. This has the wizardly rulers of Britain very concerned.

    Also, I don't think the Harry Potter example counts. I was under the impression the franchise is set in our universe and Like Reality Unless Noted.
  • January 11, 2014
    ryanasaurus0077
    I was actually talking about Bedknobs And Broomsticks.
  • January 11, 2014
    DAN004
    Pulling one hat cuz title needs to be changed.
  • January 16, 2014
    DracMonster
    EDIT: Ignore this, retracting my idea.
  • January 16, 2014
    StarSword
    Fantasy Conflict Counterpart just launched. How do the two relate?
  • January 16, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Fantasy Conflict Counterpart is for, World War Two Recycled In Space (say, a Lord Of The Rings-style world undergoing a war that freely shouts out at the War Of The Roses or either World War or the Vietnam War), while this one is for World War Two with unusual elements thrown in (like Humongous Mecha or a weaponized Zombie Apocalypse).
  • January 16, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ And this one doesn't have to involve World War II, any historical war would work.
  • January 17, 2014
    StarSword
    ^^,^Kinda what I figured. Can we add that to the description, please?
  • January 17, 2014
    DAN004
    Add my example plz? ;_;
  • January 18, 2014
    ElectricalLass
    Let's get some more examples!
  • January 18, 2014
    robinjohnson
  • January 18, 2014
    GuyWeknow
    World War Weird is fine. Although I'd add examples like "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter", where it is revealed that the Civil War was really a fight against the undead or even the recent "Sleepy Hollow" where we find out that George Washington was an expert at Demonology.
  • January 18, 2014
    JonnyB
    Weird World War or World War Weird, either one, though I've most usually heard of it referred to as Weird World War out in the wild.

    I'm really surprised we don't have this yet, onsidering we have all the sub/supertropes of it (Diesel Punk, Stupid Jetpack Hitler, etc.). It's even mentioned in a few tropes but we just danced around it.
  • May 14, 2014
    Antigone3
    Has this gone Up For Grabs?
  • May 15, 2014
    Nomic
    • There is a Call Of Cthulhu RPG book called "Achtung Cthulhu!", which is about Cthulhu Mythos and World War 2.
    • The miniature game DUST Tactics is about an alternative history World War 2 featuring walking tanks, powered armour, nazi zombies and the like.
  • May 16, 2014
    JonnyB
    In the short film 1945A, the Germans field a giant spider-like mech against the Allies, complete with a laser death ray.
  • May 16, 2014
    JonnyB
    Possible page images:


  • May 16, 2014
    kjnoren
    Using World War in the trope name will just lead to an inbuilt bias towards World War One and World War Two. Also, would something like World War Z be included here?. Weird Historical War is a better name from clarity and conciseness.
  • May 16, 2014
    JonnyB
    Generally there is an inbuilt bias toward WWI and WWII in this trope. Primarily WWII. So I don't see the problem.

    World War Z wouldn't fit because it's more of a virus outbreak than an actual war and there is no supernatural or sci-fi tech aspect to it.
  • May 16, 2014
    kjnoren
    There is a problem if the trope name causes otherwise valid examples (like, say, from the Napoleonic wars) to be dropped instead of added. Also see Confirmation Bias.

    If the trope is only about World War Two that should be explicit in the trope name (but then I'd say it's a too specific trope).
  • May 16, 2014
    SharleeD
  • May 16, 2014
    Antigone3
    ^ I'd lean toward putting that one on Fantasy Conflict Counterpart myself — Darcy's world "split off" from ours centuries before the series began.
  • May 16, 2014
    Antigone3
    So I'm stuck at work covering for someone else, no customers, might as well teach myself how to set up a title crowner, right? But it's not clear from the Administrivia page how to link to a YKTTW discussion. Would it be AlternativeTitles/WeirdWorldWar, or AlternativeTitles/discussion.php?id=f8x7d73pp7ye3fhk0qok2jtv?
  • May 16, 2014
    kjnoren
    Set up the crowner, and then just make a normal link to it.
  • May 16, 2014
    Antigone3
  • May 17, 2014
    JonnyB
    @kjnoren, regarding Weird World War vs. World War Weird: I think World War Weird probably more strongly implies WWI or WWII, because of the standard nomenclature we use today to refer to these wars (i.e. World War X); whereas Weird World War sounds like it could be any global war with a weird component. IMHO.
  • May 17, 2014
    kjnoren
    Correct. The trouble is the word World, since that implies a world war in and of itself, something very few wars really has been. Both trope names also fail to imply the alternate history element of the proposed trope.

    As such, I think both Weird World War and World War Weird fails to satisfy Clear Concise Witty.
  • May 17, 2014
    Antigone3
    @Jonny B, I like the second image you posted, where is it from?
  • May 17, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    The World Of Darkness had all of the factions fighting each other in the shadows trying to get superiority (and thus are In Universe "boogeymen" and "Foo Fighter" stories)-but interestingly, none of them contributed in any way whatsoever to the Nazi party's worse Real Life atrocities.
  • May 17, 2014
    Dalillama
    Literature:
    • Baltimore or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire is about WWI awakening the vampires, and a veteran of that war who spends the rest of his life fighting them.
  • May 17, 2014
    JonnyB
    ^^^ Found it here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/superpics/machines/set_1/ww2mecha.html

    Here's another interesting image I found:


  • May 17, 2014
    crazysamaritan
    I've a question: Why does this trope depend on the wartime element?

    The trope elements seem to be [1] Alternate History with [2] fantastical elements (supernatural creatures, advanced technology, time-travel, aliens, etc), and [3] a war.

    The examples getting collected, however, seem to contain any story with the first two, but with point 3 as a past historical event, and rarely the Point of Divergence itself. The Harry Potter series, for example, is not supposed to be Alternate History, but it contains point 2 (magic) and mentions point 3 as a past event. It therefore doesn't count as the genre getting explored, but is considered "close enough" to submit.

    Which is why I'm asking if the wartime element is really important. If it is very important, then I suggest that the Alternate History portion is the irrelevant factor, and this trope should be about points 2 and 3.
  • May 17, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Many stories here are Alternate History, but many others are just Like Reality Unless Noted, taking place during a real-world war, and the "Unless Noted" is the inclusion of fantastical elements. Many stories are Alternate History, but others just say that the battling with the Phlebotinum Du Jour took place "in the shadows" and both sides cancelled each other out making the war happen as we know it. Wolverine probably killed Nazis by the truckload on Omaha Beach and Captain America was probably on the first wave, but D-Day still happened as we would see it on any History Channel documentary.

    OK, sure, he's right. This trope should be independent of whether the "weird" creates Alternate History or not.
  • May 17, 2014
    randomsurfer
    • In The Incredible Mr Limpet Mr. Limpet - a former human, now a fish - uses his "thrum" call to guide Allied subs to German subs in order to sink them. The Germans develop a special torpedo which homes in on thrums.
  • May 17, 2014
    Ominae
    Video Games

    • In Ring of Red, Nazi Germany had been able to create Armored Fighting Walkers or AFWs in order to give the Wehrmacht a fighting edge against Allied troops. Due to the European terrain, they only saw limited service and instead, were used by North and South Japanese troops before and after the Japanese War when Japan was divided by the Allied Forces.
    • The Silent Storm series features the use of human-sized mecha called Panzerkliens, which were supplied by a terrorist group called Thor's Hammer to both Allied and Axis forces in order to reap off the profits while they waited for both factions to weaken each other off before they would start plans to take over the world.
  • May 17, 2014
    JonnyB
    The first two images I posted were cut scenes from the game Ring Of Red.
  • May 18, 2014
    DAN004
    Any proposed title with the word "world" needs to die.

    Btw compare World War Whatever.
  • May 21, 2014
    Arivne
    • Examples section formatting
      • Added a line separating the Description and Examples sections.
      • Added a space between *'s and the first word following them.
    • Blue Links: Changed double curly braces to Wiki Word(s).
    • Deleted unnecessary blank line(s).
    • Namespaced and italicized work name(s).
    • Capitalized (southern, north).
    • Namespaced Creator name(s).
    • Blue Linked (steampunk, Cthulhu mythos, DC Comics x2).
    • De-Red Linked (Walking Tanks).
  • May 21, 2014
    DAN004
    Who managed this ykttw, actually?
  • May 21, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Possible Comics example: There is an independent comic book called Uber which attempts to deconstruct the typical comic book trope of super humans being used in World War Two, instead painting them as walking Weapons of Mass Destruction that leave plenty of Gorn behind wherever they're deployed (especially when facing regular troops).

    RPG Example: The rpg Wild Talents (and its predecessor Godlike) involves the appearance and use of super humans during World War Two (with pretty lethal rules, enforcing an Anyone Can Die War Is Hell vision), and the rule expansions World Gone Mad and This Favored Land involve the role of super humans from their first appearance in The Forties up until the start of the 21st Century (being part of every conflict along the way) and an Alternate Universe where super humans first appeared during the American Civil War.
  • May 25, 2014
    Antigone3
    Nine days into the crowner, and Weird World War is still in the lead — but it's too close to wrap up.
  • May 25, 2014
    DAN004
    Honestly, the word "world" will limit the scope of this trope.
  • May 25, 2014
    Elfkaiser
    Eastern Animation

    • The Malaysian animated film War Of The Worlds: Goliath combines the War Of The Worlds with the World War I timeframe. Set in a 1914 after the initial Martian invasion and wherein mankind has tank tripods and technology reverse-engineered from Martian tech, the first world war threatens to break. However all that is put aside when the Martians attempt a second invasion thus what was supposed to be World War I is turned into the second War of the Worlds with the likes of Manfred von Richthofen the Red Baron and Theodore Roosevelt fighting together in a united special organization against Martians.
  • June 6, 2014
    crazysamaritan
    I've seen one answer to my question: Why does this trope depend on the wartime element?
  • June 6, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Because it's pretty much depending on showcasing how these wars could have been if unusual elements have been available to fight with. Some people are not content with just pumping Jerries so full of holes they look like colanders-they wanna see them being torn to pieces by dragons, stomped on with mecha, and burnt to cinders with a Patronus (and I know Patronuses are not supposed to do that, but still).

    I think I wrote before that an enormous amount of BMovies from as far back as The Nineties have involved adding unusual elements to the Irak War (or someone being crazy enough to try to do so, disregarding the message that Evil Is Not A Toy). Dunno if they would count.
  • June 6, 2014
    crazysamaritan
    You were the one who answered last time, and concluded that it must be the Alternate History part of the definition that didn't matter. But nothing has changed.
  • June 6, 2014
    kjnoren
    ^^^ Because it's a useful classification, like any good trope. Simple as that.

    Simply introducing weirdness to the world in fiction would be a hugely broad trope, and it can be divided up either through purpose or context or both to make it easier to discuss and analyse.
  • June 6, 2014
    crazysamaritan
    It is already being (mis)used as weirdness in the world, in the draft.
  • June 6, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Maybe because some of the better known (and older) titles using this type of story are called "Weird War"?
  • June 6, 2014
    Synchronicity
    • Appears in the backstory of Percy Jackson And The Olympians — apparently World War II was caused in part and fought largely by warring demigod children of Zeus, Poseidon and Hades. The effects were so devastating that they vowed never to have children after the war. Only Hades kept it.
      • In the sequel series, The Heroes Of Olympus, the American Civil War was apparently caused by feuding Roman and Greek demigods.
  • July 6, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Bump!
  • July 6, 2014
    DAN004
  • July 14, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Bump!
  • July 23, 2014
    Antigone3
    Weird Historical War is currently in the lead ... but only by one vote.
  • July 23, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Weird World War has my vote. OK, sure, people think "Historical" sounds more accurate... but let's be honest, look up there and tell me many examples have to do with World War Two?

    Still, both titles have "Weird" and "War", which is also the words most used on the titles, so it's ok.
  • July 23, 2014
    kjnoren
    ^ You are using a confirmation bias there - most current examples are from World War Two, thus we should use a name that reflects that, thus gathering more examples of that type while missing other reasonable uses of the trope.

    Remember, Clear Concise Witty. Weird Historical War is much better in conciseness.
  • July 23, 2014
    protochaud
    World War Weird sounds better, IMO, but either way, this trope needs to happen.
  • July 23, 2014
    DAN004
    Who's updating this, anyway?
  • July 28, 2014
    jormis29
    • GURPS Technomancer: After the Hellstorm in 1945, a number of real-world wars still went ahead with China facing stiff resistance from magic Tibetian monks in their invasion of 1950 and Iranian Revolution takes place while Shah is being treated for vampiric leukaemia in the United States in 1979. The supplement, "Funny New Guys" focuses on roleplaying the Vietnam War if it were fought using wizards and dragons.

  • July 28, 2014
    DAN004
    Gonna grab this, if nobody objects
  • July 28, 2014
    Antigone3
    Might as well grab it, Dan — I can't count on getting over here regularly.
  • July 28, 2014
    Psychopompos007
    Video Game
    • In Call Of Cthulhu The Wasted Land (set during World War One), you lead a small squad of British and American investigators in the Eastern French battlefield, attempting to stop the German to create an army of Undead and Eldritch Abominations. The game then received a prequel DLC campaign in which you play as Docktor [sic] Kaul, the Big Bad of the main campaign.
  • August 13, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
  • August 15, 2014
    DAN004
    Needs a picture. And title isn't final yet - may be confusable with portrayals of a historical war as weird.
  • August 15, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Dumb question... would this Trope accept movies that portray recent wars? I mean this because I can think of a couple of Asylum movies (or at least I guess are Asylum movies) that are set during The War On Terror.

    OTOH, I can guess they are both an example of Too Soon and a good deal of these movies don't deal with world-wide use of the "weird" stuff, only a small region or village terrorised by it and destroyed before it becomes a world-wide threat.

    In any case, The Asylum (and other companies) did put out WWII-related schlock sci-fi stuff (like "SS Doomtrooper") which could be part of the examples for this. Although they also figure into what I said-they affect a small area and are destroyed before they become a bigger threat.
  • August 15, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ try giving me one example of that "recent wars".
  • August 16, 2014
    JonnyB
    If Weird Historical War is to be it, Weird World War or World War Weird (or both) should be redirects.

    I'm wondering if Watchmen would count. In the alternate history of that comic, The Vietnam War took quite a different turn due to the involvement of superheros (especially Dr. Manhattan).
  • August 16, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ It definitely does.
  • August 16, 2014
    StarSword
    ^^Well, right now World War Weird is in the lead.
  • August 16, 2014
    Psychopompos007
    ^ As the trope seems to be about any historical war and not only WW 1 and WW 2, it would be more explict if "World War" weren't part of its title.
  • August 16, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    I will vote for "Weird Historical War" as long as "Weird World War" and "World War Weird" become redirects.

  • August 16, 2014
    LobsterMagnusNovus
  • August 16, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    ^ Potential examples of post-"War On Terror" "weird war" movies include:

    -"Osombie": Osama Bin Laden returns as a zombie and is looking to create a Zombie Apocalypse on the Middle East.

    -"The Objective": A top-secret patrol looking for a most-wanted insurgent leader in a "Bermuda Triangle"-like area in the Middle East runs into a conspiracy to use djinn (or more specifically, aliens that are believed to be djinn) as a weapon.

    -''Red Sands": A patrol for insurgents destroys a statue out of boredom, awakening a really murderous Djinn.

    This one happens in the 1960's:

    -"Djinns (a.k.a. "Stranded"): a French Foreign Legion rescue mission in Algeria goes awry when invisible Djinns stalk the rescue crew.

    (Other examples, mostly WWII-based, can be found here: http://warmovieblog.com/archives/3967-23-horror-themed-war-movies-for-halloween.html )
  • August 16, 2014
    HeavyTony
    Video Games
    • Some cheatcodes in Ageof Empires games allows to obtain some implausible unities like cars armed with rocket launcher or machine guns and soldiers launching nuclear missiles.
  • August 16, 2014
    DAN004
    ^^ it would be better if we have work pages for those.
  • August 17, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Don't think we do. Which is an understandable problem.
  • August 17, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ okay I see.

    Looking some comments above, I've seen some good pictures, but I wonder: what are the sources?
  • August 17, 2014
    Psychopompos007
    Webcomic
  • August 17, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    The edited pictures above I've seen on Michael Surbrook's "Surbrook's Stuff" page. He's either authorised or he's the creator-wouldn't be able to tell with accuracy.
  • August 24, 2014
    DAN004
    Bump
  • August 24, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Zig Zagged Trope in DC Comics: While there were several war-time comics in Real Life showcasing superheroes like Superman helping the war effort (and the Axis upping the ante on various ways), a Ret Con was done eventually saying that Hitler had in his possession the Spear of Destiny, which could shut down the powers of any superhuman within a given (yet undefined) radius, which prevented any superhero from simply blitzing Berlin on his/her own and ending the war early.

    Western Animation example: The second Justice League story arc, The Savage Time, involved the League going back in time to the European Theatre in order to Set Right What Once Went Wrong (in this case, Vandal Savage sending back a laptop full of information that his younger self used to provide the Nazis with super-weapons like gigantic mono-wheel battle tanks).
  • September 5, 2014
    undefined
    Bump for picture suggestions and discussion about title
  • September 5, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    Title looks good (would go for "Weird World War" myself, but it's just me. Whatever works, and the current title works).

    Picture suggestions:

    The covers for the "Weird War(s) Tales" series from DC. Caps as you see fit.

    Weird Wars Tales Vol 1 number 13 (Nazi zombies!)

    Weird Wars Tales 1971 number 1 (more Nazi Zombies!)

    Weird Wars Tales (Nazi Gorillas!)

    Weird War Tales vol. 1 number 68 (Nazi Godzilla!)
  • September 10, 2014
    DAN004
    Is the pic good yet? Needs a better caption.
  • September 16, 2014
    DAN004
    Final bump
  • September 16, 2014
    marcoasalazarm
    The pic is pretty good. Caption works well, although alternative could also be something along the lines of "wait a minute, I didn't knew that the Nazis had used zombie hounds..."
  • September 17, 2014
    Koveras
    • Declare adds a supernatural background (specifically concerning the Jinn) to WW 2 and particularly the Cold War.
  • September 24, 2014
    DAN004
    What would be the indices?
  • October 4, 2014
    JonnyB
  • October 4, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ Try putting it as a proper example.
  • October 5, 2014
    JonnyB
    How is it not proper?
  • October 5, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ okay, it is proper now.
  • October 5, 2014
    SatoshiBakura
    I think this trope is just about ready to leave the launch pad.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=f8x7d73pp7ye3fhk0qok2jtv