Created By: TheUrbanPrince on June 8, 2010 Last Edited By: TheUrbanPrince on June 8, 2010
Troped

Iconic Defeat

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
Do We Have This One? where in fiction during a great war there's a certain strategic loss that is very significant to the point of being demoralizing, shocking, and Iconic in universe? For instance Star Wars have the destruction of the first death star, Halo universe has the fall of reach. Sometimes it could be a turning point in the war, but not always. A faction can suffer these defeats and not necessarily be defeated. But it's still a crippling loss that'll at least slow them down significantly. Sometimes these defeats are due to surprise attacks. Sometimes it's described as a Noodle Incident in some stories.
Community Feedback Replies: 30
  • May 25, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    Harry Potter defeating Voldemort as a baby?
  • May 25, 2010
    ACDrawings
    The title sounds like a signature method an enemy is defeated, like Team Rocket is blasted off into a star.

    Might I suggest Significant Defeat
  • May 26, 2010
    SKJAM
    Waterloo, for Napoleon.
  • May 26, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    @AC Drawings: No that's not what i meant lol, That's more of a running gag. The waterloo example is good..
  • May 27, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    Pearl Harbor might also count
  • May 27, 2010
    Sceptre
    D-Day.
  • May 27, 2010
    Unknown Troper
  • May 28, 2010
    GiantSpaceChinchilla
    Avatar The Last Airbender had Iroh's siege. Not sure if it counts but seems to be mentioned all the time in the show.
  • May 28, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    This is way too vague if we're lumping merely strategically significant defeats with another form of Morale Event Horizon.
  • May 29, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    That's basically what this is, a strategic defeat causing a Morale Event Horizon. At first i thought you meant Moral Event Horizon..my bad.
  • May 29, 2010
    ChimbleySweep
    The Battle of Wolf 359 from TNG,
  • May 30, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    Does anybody have anything more to add?
  • May 30, 2010
    SisterDizzy
    In World Of Warcraft there are numerous examples of this, as well as a couple of subversions, but given the name of the game, that's hardly surprising. There is the War of the Ancients which led to the destruction of the Keldorei kingdom and the world splitting apart, well the one continent, anyway. Then the Orcs almost complete annihilation of the Draenei on Draenor. After which, said orcs go on to sack the human city of Stormwind. Later, they go on to enslave the Red Dragon Flight, with which, they almost reduce Quel'Thalas to burning ash. Later, the Kaldorei give up their immortality by blowing up the World Tree to kill Archimonde. Not long after that, they lose their beloved beloved demigod, Cenarius in a battle with Grom Hellscream. I haven't even gotten to the third war in which Arthas ends up killing every man, woman, and child in Stratholme. This is before he goes over to the dark side. After that, he kills his father, several paladins, including another father figure, Uther, then sacks Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon City to use the Sunwell, which he then blows up. Oh yeah, at the end of this war, Kil'Jaeden comes around to completely demolish Dalaran. Did I mention there were a lot of examples in this? I think I did.
  • May 31, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    "A really big defeat" is way too broad. Morale Event Horizon, turning point, final battle, what is it?
  • May 31, 2010
    Unknown Troper
    I see the trope here, and don't think it's too broad, really. You could sum these battles up as the ones that really changed the course of events - whether due to being eye openers or because of the strategic significance of the victory (or both).

    Another real life example would be the Battle of Hastings, as England would've ended up an entirely different country without it. Yet another real life example (and an often fictionalised one) would be the Battle of Chi Bi in the Romance Of The Three Kingdoms, as it's widely believed that if the aggressors hadn't been defeated, the Three Kingdoms period might've ended then and there, which would have had a drastic impact on China's history.
  • May 31, 2010
    LeeM
    RL: Britain's 1940 retreat from Dunkirk marked a turning point in World War II, but is remembered in Britain more for the heroic rescue of stranded troops than as a defeat.
  • May 31, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    Anybody has a alternate name suggestion, Or are we cool with the current one?
  • May 31, 2010
    randomsurfer
  • June 1, 2010
    Arivne
    World War II "turning point of the war" examples:
  • June 1, 2010
    JackButler
    Actually Turning Point Of The War isn't a bad title for this one.

    The Battle of Gettysburg.
  • June 1, 2010
    Chabal2
    Deus Ex: the (French!) terrorist group blows up the Statue of Liberty.
  • June 1, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    I dunno Turning Point Of The War doesn't quite fit. How about Shocking Loss, or Shocking Defeat?
  • June 2, 2010
    MadamShogun
    The battle of little big horn

    BTW I think this defeat is also about the lasting legacy of said defeats. So the name should be Legacy Defeat or something to that effect. I also prefere Shocking Defeat also!
  • June 3, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
  • June 3, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    I also wanted to add Battle Of Yonkers
  • June 4, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    If nobody comes up with a better name by tomorrow i'll just use Shocking Defeat Legacy
  • June 5, 2010
    Fanra
    RL: Britain's 1940 retreat from Dunkirk marked a turning point in World War II, but is remembered in Britain more for the heroic rescue of stranded troops than as a defeat.

    The "Fall of France" fits the trope name better. Dunkirk is more of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat (although Churchill was quick to point out that you don't win wars with retreats and that while it was great to save the troops, the Fall of France was still a major defeat for the Allies).
  • June 5, 2010
    Ryusui
    How about just Turning Point?
  • June 6, 2010
    GiantSpaceChinchilla
  • June 6, 2010
    TheUrbanPrince
    LOL Those are some really good choices, i'll have to really marinate on those suggestions Chinchilla. @ Ryusui i thought really hard about that name. But i wanted something more "neutral" as this trope isn't always a turning point. But a battle that was shocking because the loss was unexpected or surprising, and left a lasting chilling impression.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=e8ik751ggmtnbgv9cs63lh1g