Created By: DarkConfidant on July 4, 2012 Last Edited By: Shrikesnest on July 19, 2012
Troped

Non-Combat EXP

Exactly What It Says On The Tin

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
Per this thread in TRS, Easy EXP is split into two tropes. This is one of them. Up for Grabs, but please keep up with the TRS thread if you're going to take this trope.
Indices: Role-Playing Game, ?
It's a simple fact of most Role-Playing Games that some amount of Level Grinding will be required. Gaining Experience Points often requires several hours of killing mooks or otherwise going on a spree of mass-murder and terrorism in the streets.

Some games, however, give you experience for activities completely unrelated to fighting enemies. Craft a sword? Gain EXP! Run a mile? Gain EXP! Collect your three hundred rat tails and give them to the witch who needs them? Get EXP for that, too!

This can be justified; just as it doesn't make sense for reading a book to improve your combat parameters, it also doesn't make sense that killing a thousand Red Shirts improves your ability to use a compass or forging the Infinity+1 Sword. Instead, you gain proficiency in item crafting by doing so repeatedly, and so on. This is more common in recent RPGs.

This trope is NOT about items which give you free experience or stats. For that, see Rare Candy. It's also not for gaining experience for mundane tasks such as talking to random NPCs. For that, see Mundane EXP (name to be decided via a separate YKTTW). This trope is for when EXP is gained for things such as training, completing sidequests, and advancing the plot, whether those things involve defeating monsters or not. It is a specific way to avert RPGs Equal Combat.

The variant regarding getting better at a particular skill by doing so repeatedly is Truth in Television. However, since this trope requires that some sort of level-and-experience based system be in place, No Real Life Examples, Please! (They're not possible in Real Life.)

Examples

Type A - EXP gained applies to a character's general level

Video Games
  • In the Baldur's Gate series, particularly the second installment, the most XP was gained from completing major quests rather than combat encounters.
  • In the multiplayer for Call of Duty, players have levels. They must gain XP to level up, which allows them access to new weapons. You mainly get XP through kills, but the game liberally dishes out XP for getting kills in special ways, such as revenge kills ("Payback!") or killing an enemy immediately after they killed a teammate ("Avenged!"). You can also get lots of bonus XP for certain achievements, like getting a certain number of headshots with a weapon, or using a perk a certain number of times. In objective-based gamemodes you also will get XP for capturing objectives.
  • Command & Conquer series:
    • Red Alert 2: Sneaking an Allied Spy to the enemy Barracks or War Factory gives that unit instant veteran level without combat, but works only for the kind of units produced in said building. Taking one spy to said point is quite difficult though, and it only works once per building.
    • Red Alert 3: Veteran Academies are tech buildings that, if captured, will grant most (if not all) units veteran levels equal to the amount of Academies owned by the player. It goes all the way up to Elite.
  • Deus Ex series:
    • In the first Deus Ex, exploring nooks and crannies of the various maps not only netted you more inventory, some additional lore and bonus scenes, but every so often also gave you "Exploration Bonuses" in EXP.
    • Deus Ex: Human Revolution hands out XP for a variety of non-combat tasks. Players receive XP every time they successfully hack computers, complete missions, or win a "social battle" (i.e. convince someone to do something for you by choosing the right dialogue options). You also can get a huge amount of XP for going through an entire level without being seen.
  • Fallout and its sequels all award XP for doing non-combat related things, which may bypass combat altogether, such as lockpicking, hacking and persuasion.
  • In Final Fantasy XIII-2, you can get CP (the game's form of EXP) from finding fragments throughout every area, which are obtained by completing sidequests or main missions.
  • Fire Emblem series:
    • Staff users gain EXP whenever they use a staff. Similarly, in Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Micaiah gains experience whenever she uses her "Sacrifice" skill.
    • Because of the unique mechanics of Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, each unit has a separate amount of currency, and characters will not give money to others. However, thief units (Dew and Patty or her replacement) can, and they gain EXP for giving their money to another unit.
    • In both ''Tellius games, Bonus EXP is awarded for completing maps, doing so quickly, leaving certain units alive, and other tasks, which can be given to different units to build them up.
  • In King's Quest: Mask of Eternity, you gain experience for solving puzzles, apart from killing enemies.
  • The Mass Effect series, despite relying heavily on combat, did away with XP-for-kills starting with part two, instead handing it out for quests and some item pickups. Even Mass Effect 1, some XP was gained upon unlocking each Codex entry, i.e. from simple exploration and interacting with the environment.
  • In Minecraft, since the Release Version 1.3 [[note]]To be specific, it started in pre-release version 12w22a. 1.3 has not yet been released, but it is assumed that this will be included in it.[[/note]] you can gain experience from mining certain elements, smelting some minerals, and other stuff as well.
  • In addition to Quest EXP, Neverwinter Nights and its sequels include a few instances of xp beyond combat. Some conversations have bonus xp nestled in them for "roleplaying" options, there are times where avoiding the combat encounter will grant as much or more xp than fighting through it (if you're over-leveled for the fight). In Neverwinter Nights 2, a later expansion even gave xp for opening locks and disabling traps.
  • Planescape: Torment became a cult classic largely because of this trope. Whereas most CRPG at the time were heavily into hack'n'slash, Torment gave the best rewards (including experience) for dialog-based solutions to problems.
  • Rebel Star : Tactical Command: Using the Medic and Psionics (non combat and more in mind screw) commands grant exp.
  • In ''Star Ocean: The Last Hope, finishing mini quests gives you exp and the skill points to acquire skills. Also you get that by farming and or mining items at certain spots (the only way to finish some of said quests as well as getting certain crafting materials).
  • Xenoblade awards the player EXP for simply exploring the world map, by discovering landmarks and hidden areas. It also awards EXP for successfully completing sidequests and completing key points (called "Chapters") in the game's story. Being that it's easily over 80 hours in length (up to 100, or more, including sidequests) it's not hard to see why that is.
  • Valkyrie Profile has Event Experience, which is received at the ends of dungeons and after triggering events while exploring dungeons. It's usually pretty meager in comparison with the experience you get from killing all the stuff in the dungeons, but has the advantage of being able to be divided as you wish among your characters, allowing you to stockpile it and level up weak characters who'd have a difficult time surviving combat.

MMORPGs
  • Guild Wars 2 gives experience for almost everything, from harvesting materials in the world, to crafting to exploration.
  • Mabinogi has lots of ways to get XP from crafting and other non-combat activities.
    • The two skills for crafting finished adventuring gear (Tailoring and Blacksmithing) give some of the easiest XP in the game, especially if you take part-time jobs or process your own raw materials.
    • Additionally, the Merchant Destiny give you more than double XP for crafting stuff for as long as you keep it.
    • There is also Exploration XP, which is basically an entire second XP-and-level system, fueled entirely by tracking down Irian artifacts with an L-rod (an example of Type B Non-Combat EXP).
    • Mabinogi is one of the few combat-oriented games where you can make a respectable character who never fights.
  • Trickster Online gives the player experience from various activities, namely drilling and playing cards.
  • World of Warcraft gives experience the first time a significant landmark is visited.

Tabletop RPG
  • Dungeons & Dragons has various rules for GM's to give out EXP for completing tasks outside of combat, such as talking one's way out of a fight or for superb roleplaying.
  • FATAL manages to use this trope to limit the poor, deformed, psychotic pc's that get created. Each class has a specific action that grants it EXP. No more needs to be stated.
  • Iron Crown Enterprises' games (Rolemaster, Space Master, Cyberspace, etc.) often gave experience points for non-combat actions, such as coming up with useful ideas, performing movement maneuvers (e.g. running), traveling (5 xp per kilometer), using spells or psionic powers, performing research and building or repairing items.
  • Teenagers from Outer Space works on a voting method: the other players at a session make secret votes to decide if a player gets 1, 2 or 3 XP. The average is rewarded.
  • The World of Darkness series, being a storytelling system, mainly grants EXP through non-combat means. One point for showing up, one point if the character learned something, and so on. EXP can be gained through combat, though it's not the primary method.

Webcomics
  • Spoofed in Culture Shock in this strip - You can get EXP for quite literally anything - kicking trash cans, beating up nerds, popping bubble wrap, opening bags of chips, and using the restroom, among others.
  • Discussed by the Light Warriors in 8-Bit Theater - Apparently, sidequests are the primary source of an adventurer's EXP gain, and are what separates noble adventurers from roaming bands of thugs.
  • Goblins features one conversation between two city guards in Brassmoon City about a time when a DM granted someone roleplaying xp for taking a dump. This granted him just enough xp to level up. Needless to say, things got crappy real fast.
  • In Order Of The Stick, the first time the Order levels up on-screen, Belkar, their psychotic evil halfling ranger, was a mere handful of xp shy from leveling up with everyone else. When killing rats proved to not grant xp and party kills were banned from him, he resorted to pulling out a sob story for roleplaying xp.

Type B - EXP applies only to a particular skill or attribute.

Video Games
  • The Elder Scrolls series uses a levelling system which gives the player experience for doing a given task (so you level up in sneak if you sneak, destruction magic for killing things with magic and so on) and awards levels (with respective stat increases, as well as perks in Skyrim) every 10 ranks (so you could become quite high level by doing nothing but sneaking, smithing and learning to talk really well).
  • Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town (and more friends of mineral town): You get experience on using the tools by using the tools.
  • In Quest 64, while you gain HP, MP, and defense by performing tasks in battle, you gain agility by walking. Including running around in circles for hours.

MMORPGs
  • The videogame franchise Ultima utilizes this mechanic in its games. Instead of a class or level system, the core mechanics are an attribute system and a skill system. Players gain more powerful at their skills by using them repeatedly. ''Ultima Online', the MMORPG version, is probably the most popular game in the franchise.

Mixed Type - Contains both Type A and Type B variants

MMORPGs
  • Perfect World: When obtaining materials and crafting you get a small dose of experience. Obtaining materials affects one's overall level (Type A), while crafting only affects one's crafting ability (Type B)
Community Feedback Replies: 81
  • July 4, 2012
    NimmerStill
    Laconic needs help.
  • July 4, 2012
    surgoshan
    More cecent role-playing games often give you experience outside of combat, usually for completing quests (though those often involve combat).

    • Planescape Torment became a cult classic largely because of this trope. Whereas most CRPG at the time were heavily into hack'n'slash, Torment gave the best rewards (including experience) for dialog-based solutions to problems.
  • July 4, 2012
    raven2785
    • Okami has you win experience from everything, sure you can get experience from battle but you can also get it from doing small things like feeding animals, blooming trees, etc.
  • July 4, 2012
    Koveras
    RP Gs Equal Combat is probably related in some way.

    • In the Baldurs Gate, particularly the second installment, the most XP was gained from completing major quests rather than combat encounters.
    • The Mass Effect series, despite relying heavily on combat, did away with XP-for-kills starting with part two, instead handing it out for quests and some item pickups. Even Mass Effect 1, some XP was gained upon unlocking each Codex entry, i.e. from simple exploration and interacting with the environment.
  • July 4, 2012
    MiinU

    Eastern rpg

    • Xenoblade awards the player EXP for simply exploring the world map, by discovering landmarks and hidden areas. It also awards EXP for successfully completing sidequests and completing key points (called "Chapters") in the game's story. Being that it's easily over 80 hours in length (up to 100, or more, including sidequests) it's not hard to see why that is.
  • July 4, 2012
    planswalker
    • In addition to Quest EXP, Neverwinter Nights and its sequels include a few instances of xp beyond combat. Some conversations have bonus xp nestled in them for "roleplaying" options, there are times where avoiding the combat encounter will grant as much or more xp than fighting through it (if you're over-leveled for the fight). In Neverwinter Nights 2, a later expansion even gave xp for opening locks and disabling traps.
  • July 4, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Added in the examples thus far, except the Okami one. That one seems like it belongs in Mundane EXP instead of this trope. This is EXP for stuff such as roleplaying, item crafting, quest/mission completion, and the like.

    Also, please namespace your examples.
  • July 4, 2012
    Bisected8
    • Fallout and its sequels all award XP for doing non-combat related things, which may bypass combat altogether, such as lockpicking, hacking and persuasion.
    • The Elder Scrolls series uses a levelling system which gives the player experience for doing a given task (so you level up in sneak if you sneak, destruction magic for killing things with magic and so on) and awards levels (with respective stat increases, as well as perks in Skyrim) every 10 ranks (so you could become quite high level by doing nothing but sneaking, smithing and learning to talk really well).
  • July 4, 2012
    abk0100
    [[8BitTheater Image?]]
  • July 4, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    ^ Can I get a link from the webcomic itself, and not a single image from Wikia, please?
  • July 4, 2012
    chicagomel
    You can level up Pokemon at the Day Care Center, but does that give any XP? I'm not sure...anyone know?
  • July 4, 2012
    abk0100
    ^^[1]
  • July 4, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    ^^ 1 EXP per step, as it turns out (1 step is moving from one tile to a tile immediately adjacent). However, I'm not sure if that qualifies. I'll have to think about it.

    ^ Added.
  • July 4, 2012
    planswalker
    you might consider organizing the examples by media. They're getting kinda unwieldly.
  • July 4, 2012
    Damr1990
    In Minecraft, since the Release Version 1.3 (and the snapshots before 1.2.5 and that) you can also gain experience from mining certain elements, and smelting some minerals and other stuff
  • July 4, 2012
    Mauri
    • Trickster Online makes you get experience from various activities, namely drilling and playing cards.
    Sadly I don't recall the name but there are other Online examples.
    • Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town (and more friends of mineral town): You get experience on using the tools by using the tools.
  • July 4, 2012
    billybobfred
    ^^ To be specific, it started in pre-release version 12w22a. 1.3 has not yet been released, but it is assumed that this will be included in it.
  • July 5, 2012
    Arivne
    Tabletop RPG
    • Iron Crown Enterprises' games (Rolemaster, Space Master, Cyberspace, etc.) often gave experience points for non-combat actions, such as coming up with useful ideas, performing movement maneuvers (e.g. running), traveling (5 xp per kilometer), using spells or psionic powers, performing research and building or repairing items.
  • July 5, 2012
    planswalker
    • FATAL manages to use this trope to limit the poor, deformed, psychotic pc's that get created. Each class has a specific action that grants it EXP. The diemakers need to make billions of dice, scullery maids gain xp for chaimberpot cleanings, and warriors get xp for hitting things. Alas, the plethora of ways the game's creator managed to rename the oldest profession in history means that most women in his setting are required to be... indiscreet if they want to advance. Sadly, for all that this sounds interesting and diverse, the class you are can ONLY gain xp by doing the thing listed.
  • July 5, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Added. As for the FATAL example, I condensed it, since we don't need such explanation.
  • July 5, 2012
    randomsurfer
    In South Park in order to build up enough EXP in World Of Warcraft to take on a Griefer the guys go into the woods and kill boars for months on end. Does That Count?
  • July 5, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    That's gaining EXP through combat, it sounds like. If they were raising boars or farming (literally farming crops) for months on end, then it would count.
  • July 5, 2012
    Shnakepup
    • Deus Ex Human Revolution hands out XP for a variety of non-combat tasks. Players receive XP every time they successfully hack computers, complete missions, or win a "social battle" (i.e. convince someone to do something for you by choosing the right dialogue options). You also can get a huge amount of XP for going through an entire level without being seen.
    • In the multiplayer for Call Of Duty, players have levels. They must gain XP to level up, which allows them access to new weapons. You mainly get XP through kills, but the game liberally dishes out XP for getting kills in special ways, such as revenge kills ("Payback!") or killing an enemy immediately after they killed a teammate ("Avenged!"). You can also get lots of bonus XP for certain achievements, like getting a certain number of headshots with a weapon, or using a perk a certain number of times. In objective-based gamemodes you also will get XP for capturing objectives.
  • July 5, 2012
    Mauri
    Just a note in the case of Trickster online the link inside the wiki is this one.

    Also I noticed a bit late:
    • Harvest Moon example notes: Said tool exp will allow you to upgrade the Tool to said level at the blacksmith and using said charge level.
  • July 5, 2012
    planswalker
    @darkconfidant: that's fine with me. I tend to ramble.
  • July 5, 2012
    planswalker
    @darkconfidant: that's fine with me. I tend to ramble.
  • July 5, 2012
    planswalker
    • Goblins features one conversation between two city guards in Brassmoon City about a time when a dm granted someone roleplaying xp for taking a dump. This granted him just enough xp to level up. Needless to say, things got crappy real fast.
  • July 5, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    ^^^^ Added.

    ^^^ I've got it in the Video Game/ namespace (although the page has not yet been moved).

    (And please guys, properly namespace your examples!)
  • July 5, 2012
    morenohijazo
    In Kings Quest Mask Of Eternity, you gain experience for solving puzzles, apart from killing enemies.
  • July 5, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Got it.
  • July 5, 2012
    love1993
    • In Final Fantasy XIII-2, you can get CP (the game's form of EXP) from finding fragments throughout every area, which are obtained by completing sidequests or main missions.
  • July 5, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Updated.
  • July 5, 2012
    planswalker
    did I get the goblins example wrong?
  • July 5, 2012
    Rognik
    Quite a few MM Os use this trope. Notably, the dozens of sidequests.
    • World Of Warcraft gives experience the first time a significant landmark is visited.
    • Guild Wars 2 gives experience for almost everything, from harvesting materials in the world, to crafting to exploration.
  • July 5, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    ^^ Ninja edit, so I didn't catch it.

    ^ Noted.
  • July 5, 2012
    planswalker
    ah, okay. That's 100% cool. I just looked back on it and started to second-guess its validity, and seeing it not get added looked like an indication to me I'd goofed up. glad to know it ws just a ninja problem.

    edit: another webcomic example

    • In Order Of The Stick, the first time the Order levels up, Belkar, their psychotic evil halfling ranger, was a bare handful of xp shy from leveling up with everyone else. When killing rats proved to not grant xp and party kills were banned from him, he resorted to pulling out a sob story for roleplaying xp.
  • July 6, 2012
    Mauri
    • Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2: Sneaking an Allied Spy to the enemy Barracks or War Factory does instant veteran level without combat, works only for the kind of units produced in said building. Taking one spy to said point is tricky enough for that pay off. Only works once per building.
      • Red Alert 3: Veteran Academies are tech buildings that if captured will grant most (if not all) units veteran levels equal to the amount of Academies owned by the player. It goes all the way up to Elite.
    • Rebel Star - Tactical Command: Using the Medic and Psionics (non combat and more in mind screw) commands grant exp.
    • Pokemon: Rare candy, it may cross with bribing your way to victory.
    • Star Ocean series: 2 in particular the False Medal. Then again it is used for a trick and it is a false level up.
  • July 6, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    ^ The last two examples here are Rare Candy, specifically not this trope. What's the Wiki Word for the Rebel Star page?

    ^^ Added.
  • July 6, 2012
    Mauri
    Seems I needed to calm down a bit before putting them but in any case. Rebel Star has no inside page here... to an extent partly because it is an obscure tactics game.
  • July 6, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    I'll go ahead and put it down as a Red Link. As per policy, examples that don't currently have pages should be red linked to encourage someone to create the page.
  • July 6, 2012
    Desertopa
    Valkyrie Profile has Event Experience, which is received at the ends of dungeons and after triggering events while exploring dungeons. It's usually pretty meager in comparison with the experience you get from killing all the stuff in the dungeons, but has the advantage of being able to be divided as you wish among your characters, allowing you to stockpile it and level up weak characters who'd have a difficult time surviving combat.
  • July 6, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Got it.
  • July 6, 2012
    ShadowHog
    I see that Deus Ex Human Revolution has been mentioned already, but IIRC the first Deus Ex had this earlier. Exploring nooks and crannies of the various maps not only netted you more inventory, some additional lore and bonus scenes, but every so often also gave you "Exploration Bonuses" in EXP.
  • July 6, 2012
    Mauri
    That reminds me the case of: Star Ocean: The last hope. Finishing mini quests gives you exp and the skill points to acquire skills. Also you get that by farming and or mining items at certain spots (the only way to finish some of said quests as well as getting certain crafting materials).
  • July 6, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Got 'em!
  • July 6, 2012
    Rognik
    I suppose Tabletop systems could count towards this as well:
    • The World Of Darkness series, being a storytelling system, only grants XP through non-combat means. One point for showing up, one point if the character learned something, and a couple other ways I forget at the moment.
    • Teenagers From Outer Space works on a voting method: the other players at a session make secret votes to decide if a player gets 1, 2 or 3 XP. The average is rewarded.
  • July 6, 2012
    TBeholder
    I'd go farther. "Everything except <something contrived>" isn't a trope. Thus "Combat Only XP" is a trope (mostly Hack&Slash specific) and this is an aversion.
  • July 6, 2012
    planswalker
    • The videogame franchise Ultima utilizes this mechanic in its games. Instead of a class or level system, the core mechanics are an attribute system and a skill system. Players gain more powerful at their skills by using them repeatedly. Ultima Online, the MMORPG version, is probably the most popular game in the franchise.
  • July 6, 2012
    Mauri
    Forgot this one:
    • Perfect World: When getting materials and or crafting you get a small dose of experience. It gets annoying when you need to farm the items for a quest and there are plenty of really high level people farming them to sell the materials.
    Edit: You should fix the trickster online example with the proper link.
  • July 6, 2012
    dalek955
    • Mabinogi has lots of ways to get XP from crafting and other non-combat activities. In fact, the two skills for crafting finished adventuring gear (Tailoring and Blacksmithing) give some of the easiest XP in the game, especially if you take part-time jobs or process your own raw materials. Additionally, the Merchant Destiny give you more than double XP for crafting stuff for as long as you keep it.
      • There is also Exploration XP, which is basically an entire second XP-and-level system, fueled entirely by tracking down Irian artifacts with an L-rod.
      • Basically, Mabinogi is one of the few combat-oriented games where you can make a respectable character who never fights.
  • July 7, 2012
    PaulieRomanov
    Correction, World of Darkness can reward XP through combat means, but only if the session has combat (which is more common than you think), rathr EXP is gained via completing sessions/quests rather than specifically combat.
  • July 7, 2012
    captainsandwich
    runescape has noncombat stats that you get xp for without going into combat, usually at least. prayer you get from burying bones or scattering ashes even though it is useful in combat. there are also items that give you xp like the genie lamp, also there are quests that give xp and such.
  • July 7, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    I think I'm caught up, except for the most recent entry, which needs major grammar and spelling corrections.
  • July 7, 2012
    Mauri
    Errmm Dark Confidant you forgot a detail: Perfect World is a MMORPG not a tabletop game. Before things get awkward soon. Also it goes on the normal exp growth and in the Crafting part when the player keeps on crafting items to varying degrees, some are better or worse than shop items. It is affected by the skill itself. Nice way to divide the ideas. User and Tool/Skill. Will see if there is another example I might have forgotten.
    • Webcomic Culture Shock: Gives us this page I guess that a Big Badass Burrito is bound to give more experience points.
  • July 7, 2012
    DarkConfidant
    Added.
  • July 7, 2012
    Mauri
    • Recalled an Old Shame of mine but basically going for one of the cliches here. Beating Hydrant check, Buddha check, leaving a slime (common monster) crying Priceless.
    • Cleaning the farm in Breath of Fire 2 is basically the same idea... most monsters are just rocks and bushes who won't fight back so it is just a funny way to look at the trope but not sure if it fits.
  • July 8, 2012
    MaidenGaia
    Quests in the Etrian Odyssey series grant EXP.
  • July 8, 2012
    dalek955
    Clarification of the Mabinogi example: Exploration XP is not a Type B example. E-XP levels work just like normal levels, building up your stats and giving ability points and whatnot. They're just fueled by finding artifacts rather than crafting and fighting. In fact, the exploration action can't be leveled, since it isn't even a proper skill.
  • July 8, 2012
    TBeholder
  • July 9, 2012
    Arivne
    ^ Please Read That Again. No Experience Points For Medic is "each character has to actually be the one to finish off an enemy to gain the experience from this." This means that characters that don't fight a lot (e.g. healers) don't get as many experience points because they don't perform many kills.

    Non Combat Experience Points can be a way for compensating for No Experience Points For Medic, but it can appear even when that trope doesn't occur.

    There are a number of Playing With A Trope examples on that page which would fit better as straight examples on this one.
  • July 9, 2012
    TBeholder
    "be the one to finish off" is a narrower internal subtrope by now. General sense is simple: non-primal combat oriented characters don't get XP. It may be more precisely a Missing Supertrope - but the point holds.

    Either way, you set this upside down - it's the same as making a trope for "there are armored vehicles that (gasp) are not Humongous Mecha". Contrived and very specific circumstances, including limitations, may be a trope, but absence of contrived and very specific circumstances is certainly not.
  • July 9, 2012
    Mauri
    This covers a lot that is usually a point missing on No Experience Points For Medic and touches a lot of things that usually go around in Role playing and or the setting itself. Hell for example merchants are others that get near or barely any exp and this trope helps them.
  • July 9, 2012
    planswalker
    T Beholder, I think you are not getting the tropes involved.

    your "we already have this one" is "experience is gained through actions outside of combat" and "you have to get the last hit in combat to get exp". If you do more than read the names and extrapolate what you THINK they mean, you'll see the difference.

    They CAN be companion tropes, yes, but rarely actually are. Most games where you have to get the last hit don't generally reward people for other things. Games where exp is awarded for non-combat things generally also shares, splits, or copies exp across everyone involved.

    There are a slew of games that qualify for this trope and not the other and vice versa.
  • July 9, 2012
    Mauri
    The only problem I'm seeing is that we might be missing some examples. Basically the idea has played out and has given us a good amount on the first two but... the mixed option is perhaps the one that finding examples is harder and would like to put one or two more there. Still personal opinion.
  • July 10, 2012
    TBeholder
    ^^ and if you'd read more than a quarter of my answer, you'd probably see what i wrote, so?

    ^ Everything using XP but not completely hack&slash way will fit in here and it doesn't needs a listing IMO... but if you think an example is interesting, inverted matches are handled easily: by adding "averted..." to examples.

  • July 10, 2012
    planswalker
    ^ Oh, I read your point. Thing is, you're misunderstanding two distinct tropes. One is a trope about only being able to gain xp in combat in a specific way, which greatly limits the viability of many potential builds. The other is a trope about gaining xp outside of combat, rewarding players for doing things besides killing.

    They're very distinct from each other and you're blowing smoke.
  • July 10, 2012
    Mauri
    Mmm I am thinking we could use either a quote or an image to sum it up. But outside a few ideas I have in mind the image might be a little bit tricky. Also in the case of quotes it may be difficult. Any ideas on what to do there? Still in case of emergencies I'll see what can be cooked.

    Side note not directly related to the trope but to an example, feel free to skip: Also found I made a horrible mistake given that even if it is an Old Shame for it to be adequate for the trope linking I should be fixing a "free lunch" err free launch if said example goes in. Mostly because while not a battle the example goes into the "experience gain by vandalism".
  • July 13, 2012
    TBeholder
    ^^ Oh, great pychololgist, ye still didn't read a whole line of what i wrote. :D

    Or is intentionally dodging the point, that is. "Anyone on wheeled vehicles except clowns on unicycles" is not a trope. Even if clowns on unicycles are always present in one specific style of circus, it still isn't. "clowns on unicycles" is a trope. If there are examples of circus bears on unicycles which you like too much to drop, try to list them as aversions.
  • July 14, 2012
    dalek955
    ^Yes, but it is a trope if clowns on unicycles make up 75% of the city's traffic. Which in this case they are, since in most games the only source of XP is combat or combat-like actions.
  • July 14, 2012
    DragonQuestZ
    • In Darths And Droids, Jim is actually surprised that XP can be gained from roleplaying, rather than just fighting.
  • July 14, 2012
    planswalker
    ^^^ Yeah, I read that, and I still say that you're blowing smoke over two different tropes. Oh, and YES, if circuses did nothing but shows about clowns riding unicycles and that was everyone's expectation about what circuses were and there is a noticeable minority that include other attractions as well and even a few that don't even have clowns on unicycles, it IS a trope.

    However, Non-combat exp is a VERY valid trope. Look at Trope's definition:

    On this wiki, "trope" has the even more general meaning of a recognizable pattern — not only within the media works themselves, but also in related aspects such as the behind-the-scenes aspects of creation, the technical features of a medium, and the fan experience.

    If you can recognize the pattern, it is meaningful (not People Sit On Chairs), and examples can be found, it's a trope.

    Your definition of a "trope" is wrong. If Everyone Except Clowns On Unicycles is a recongizable pattern, meaningful, and examples can be found, it's a trope. Non-combat exp is very recognizable, and we've proven that a host of examples exist. Since those two can't be contested, you've decided to attack meaningful.

    Meaningful tropes, according to People Sit On Chairs (when something claiming to be a trope isn't) a trope is meaningful if it conveys something to the audience beyond its mere existence. Non-combat exp does indeed have meanings beyond its mere presence. It tells the audience that killing isn't the only way to grow in power, that non-heroes might actually be able to advance in this world, that the player can spend time "roleplaying" in their RPG without "wasting" time not gaining xp, and all sorts of other things.

    next time you troll a YKTTW, don't invent your own definitions.

    this also is the last time I'll address your "issue" with this trope. After this, I'll just continue to remind you that when you said "Wait, Yes We DO Have This One: No Experience Points For Medic. Merge and sink." you were dead wrong and they are very different tropes that appear independent of each other and in fact almost never happen together, since the mentality that generates one isn't conducive to generating the other.
  • July 15, 2012
    dalek955
    ^Walker, is it possible you're taking this too personally? Yes, the consensus is that he's wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's an honest type of wrong. I've seen YKTTW trolling before, and that wasn't it.

    Also, he kinda has a point: this trope and No Experience Points For Medic are aversions of each other. They're just both big enough to rate their own pages. It's similar to the relationship between Evil Albino and Heroic Albino.

    Beholder, you're clearly outvoted and your persistence is making people angry. I for one have read every line of every post and still disagree with you. Think twice before continuing the argument.
  • July 15, 2012
    TBeholder
    ^^ okay, now you're visibly trying to blabber down the point way too hard. :D

    Everyone Except Clowns On Unicycles is not a pattern, it's an (indefinitely nebulous) absence thereof.
  • July 15, 2012
    Shrikesnest
    I'm sorry, T Beholder, but you're just plain wrong. Let it go. And also quit using that analogy; it's a bad one. Things from video games often relate to non-video-game things in a really weird way, especially when dealing with a very particular subset of video games. Much better comparisons are Shall I Repeat That as it relates to Dialogue Tree, NPC Scheduling to In Universe Game Clock and Feed It With Fire to Elemental Rock Paper Scissors. We have a term for tropes like this. They're called subtropes, and they're a thing. Now quit being intentionally obtuse to save face and go away.
  • July 16, 2012
    Shrikesnest
    Launching within the next 72 hours if nobody beats me to it.
  • July 16, 2012
    DrakeClawfang
    • The first Kingdom Hearts game had "Tech Points", Exp rewarded for doing something special like deflecting an enemy attack or interrupting a Charged Attack. This was removed in all subsequent games.
    • Kingdom Hearts II, all the Drive Forms acquire experience and level up in different ways, and only two of them level up for defeating any type of enemy.
    • Birth By Sleep has the EXP Walker ability, giving you Exp just for walking around.
  • July 18, 2012
    Mauri
    Forgot this one:
    • Recettear: You get Merchant Exp by haggling in your shop. Vending Machines do not count.
  • July 19, 2012
    MusikMaestro
    Five hats. Are you gonna launch it?
  • July 19, 2012
    Mauri
    I guess that the few details missing of some examples is one thing that can be fixed also that the trope is missing a quote and a proper image but I guess it is up to the creator. Mostly it is up to fixing those last details before the launch.
  • July 19, 2012
    TBeholder
    @ Shrikesnest: you still failed to address the issue. Repeat your "No U" to me as much as you want, but vague non-trope articles turn into puddles, end up in TRS, and get butchered - it's really this simple.
  • July 19, 2012
    Shrikesnest
    Launching. TBeholder, if you can take this to TRS and actually gather a consensus that this isn't a trope, I'll eat all five of these hats.
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