Created By: frogswim on August 29, 2012 Last Edited By: frogswim on November 11, 2012
Nuked

biological maturity level

this when people's maturity level is determined by physical age rather then Chronological

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in real life it's impossible to say to what extent the different levels of emotional maturity we have at different times of our lives are the result of biology or experience as you can't exactly put a 66 year old in to the body of a 15 year old to check

many fantasy fictional works however despite the most common sense answer being mostly experience, will very heavily imply the that it's biology. The reason for this is that if this wasn't the case it would be impossible to do stories truly involve age changing without erasing the character's memory or something


Examples:

movie

  • in Jumanji Sarah mentions feeling more and more like a kid mentally after being returned to her 13 year old body in 1969
  • in The Chroniclesof Narnia the characters behave and think very much like children and teens despite being in their 30s chronologically

Community Feedback Replies: 14
  • August 29, 2012
    Dawnwing
    • In the Maximum Ride series, Dylan is created in a lab and designed to grow to a teenage physical stage in just a couple months. His maturity is that of a teenager's, even though he's not had that much life experience (being only a few months old) and even though he's still learning to control his body (such as being able to fly well).
  • August 29, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    I think this needs to be much more well-defined. What is "emotional maturity" exactly? And "common sense" is very often incorrect; I would expect a great deal of "maturity" has to do with brain development, rather than experience. And for someone to feel "more like a kid mentally after being returned to her 13 year old body" is, like, People Sit On Chairs. I really like the (child vampire) Eli example in Let The Right One In: she is very world-wise from having lived a long time, but is in many ways still a 12-year-old, for instance in her worldview and emotional control. I think this is much more biologically accurate than the more common path (which amounts to the inversion of this) of some mysterious "real you" agent that continues to develop irrespective of your body, like Claudia in Interview With A Vampire, who remains physically a child but "matures" in ways that shouldn't be possible.

    The first sentence is false (it says that the problem is insoluble and also claims to know the solution), and experts would probably disagree that maturity is a matter of "mostly experience". (A case could easily be made that it has nothing to do with experience... but surely it is some combination of nature and nurture.) Please be more specific.
  • August 29, 2012
    frogswim
    @rodneyAnonymous I would have thought emotional maturity is the extent to which you can understand and control your emotions and the way they effect your choices

    the point of that common sense thing was that this trope goes against what most people would feel to make the most sense and so would not be the natural thing to write, not that common sense is always right

    "I would expect a great deal of "maturity" has to do with brain development" I would expect the opposite based on how people seem to keep maturing mentally past their prime and the fact that I can trace all the times I've matured to specific events, but then I suppose I'm biased by the fact that I don't like the thought that we're incapable of change as a result of will power and knowledge

    "And for someone to feel "more like a kid mentally after being returned to her 13 year old body" is, like, People Sit On Chairs" I can give examples of people magically changing ages where this does not happen

    the "real you" is the essence of your being which is either changing by it's self or just twisting in the chemical wind according to you

    "The first sentence is false (it says that the problem is insoluble and also claims to know the solution), and experts would probably disagree that maturity is a matter of "mostly experience". this sentence makes a claim then backs it up with an certainty of the existence of evidence that would not support it any way. that would be a solution (never said it would be the only one) and how is the problem not insoluble, even if what you said about experts is true their deductions wouldn't prove any thing

  • August 29, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    It may seem like "common sense" but you are making very broad existential claims. Stick to how things are portrayed and leave how things really are out of it.
  • August 29, 2012
    frogswim
    all that existential stuff is not why I think it's common sense. I think it's common sense because the idea that you act differently because you learn new things is a more obvious conclusion then chemicals
  • August 29, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    No no, "in real life it's impossible to say to what extent the different levels of emotional maturity we have at different times of our lives are the result of biology or experience..." is an existential claim. It also assumes that's the only way "to check".

    Recommend not trying to describe real life, and being more specific about what you actually are talking about. Like "the extent to which you can understand and control your emotions and the way they affect your choices" is great.

    Besides chemicals, there is also the size and shape of your body, especially the brain.

    "the 'real you' is the essence of your being..."

    There's a fifth element called aether; it's what the sky is made of. :)
  • August 29, 2012
    StarValkyrie
    This may be too YMMV. For me, the Pevensies in the Chronicles of Narnia movies do act older and that's why Peter in particular is having serious problems such as the fight at the train station at the beginning of Prince Caspian. The books, I could maybe see this argument but... YMMV. I think it's going to be very subjective in nearly any case with people arguing over whether a particular character with mind/body age mismatch is immature or not, if it's down at least in part to their phsyical body's hormones (especially for teenaged-bodies), if that's just their personality, and/or a response to whatever happened to them in the course of causing the mind/body age mismatch.
  • August 29, 2012
    GreatHylianKing
    In Doctor Who, The Doctor looks like he's in his thirties or late twenties, but is actually a few THOUSAND years old. Justified in the fact he's an alien who regenerates every time a physical body wears out or is killed.

    (You may wanna reword that, as it is 2 in the morning while I write this, and my creative juices aren't exactly flowing at the moment.)
  • August 30, 2012
    frogswim
    @rodneyAnonymous "No no, "in real life it's impossible to say to what extent the different levels of emotional maturity we have at different times of our lives are the result of biology or experience..." is an existential claim. It also assumes that's the only way "to check"."

    I never said that wasn't an existential claim although to be honest I'm not altogether sure what "existential" means any more?

    it does not assume that

    "Recommend not trying to describe real life, and being more specific about what you actually are talking about. Like "the extent to which you can understand and control your emotions and the way they affect your choices" is great."

    no and maybe

    "Besides chemicals, there is also the size and shape of your body, especially the brain"

    I was know I was simplifying

    ""the 'real you' is the essence of your being..." There's a fifth element called aether; it's what the sky is made of. :)"

    what the hell are you going on about here?
  • August 30, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    "does not assume": Yes, the description says it's impossible because you can't put an old brain in a young body. That is like saying space flight is impossible because you can't jump to the moon.

    "I'm not altogether sure what 'existential' means": I linked to a dictionary above. It means, basically, "regarding existence". Discussions about philosophy of mind are frequently dubbed "existential".

    "essence of your being": There is no evidence at all that such a thing exists. In many ways that is a formal fallacy, actually. Keep in mind that wiki articles are not "by" anyone: It is fine for you personally to believe souls (or whatever) exist in real life, but it's weird (at best) for TV Tropes to assert that they do.

    Just don't make claims about how real life is. That's all. You could describe the plot of Freaky Friday without making any reference to how brains actually work, or making any neurobiologists squirm.
  • August 30, 2012
    dragonslip
    rodneyAnonymous

    ""does not assume": Yes, the description says it's impossible because you can't put an old brain in a young body. That is like saying space flight is impossible because you can't jump to the moon."

    Fair enough, I see where I went wrong now

    ""I'm not altogether sure what 'existential' means": I linked to a dictionary above. It means, basically, "regarding existence". Discussions about philosophy of mind are frequently dubbed "existential"" I'm confused, isn't everything regarding existence?

    "essence of your being": There is no evidence at all that such a thing exists. In many ways that is a formal fallacy , actually. Keep in mind that wiki articles are not "by" anyone: It is fine for you personally to believe souls (or whatever) exist in real life, but it's weird (at best) for TV Tropes to assert that they do.

    Just don't make claims about how real life is. That's all. You could describe the plot of Freaky Friday without making any reference to how brains actually work, or making any neurobiologists squirm"

    I wasn't trying to make any claims about the sole. I was trying (poorly) to say that if you change as result of chemicals thorough out your life then your potential changes as well and effort is less important because there's no point in trying to be more adult when you're say....15 if your simply not capable

    P.S Dragonslip is my (me being frogswim) laptop's account because I couldn't figure out how to open the same account on two machines

  • November 11, 2012
    rodneyAnonymous
    Motion to discard.
  • November 11, 2012
    hevendor717
    This makes me think of the strangeness of souls & soul reapers in Bleach. They seem to age at about one eighth the speed of humans, and make it well past 1000 if they survive as old people, and generally "grow mentally" at the same proportional rate. Yet some "young" characters grow very wise using these excessive years, despite looking really young. They all judge each other by age due to their appearance, but nobody seems to keep track of how many years they have. So it seems that with long lifespans come potential for extreme maturity, but it is not inherent..
  • November 11, 2012
    MorganWick
    The notion that someone's maturity level is determined by their physical/biological, as opposed to experiential, age feels like a trope to me, as much as Lamarck Was Right or Superpowerful Genetics. Whether or not it's true is probably something we shouldn't take a stand on in the description; maybe it could go on an Analysis page.

Three days must pass before this YKTTW is Launchworthy or Discardable

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=7nt9lzoruwdb6qsqf7u70wks&trope=DiscardedYKTTW