Created By: immortalfrieza on July 23, 2013 Last Edited By: immortalfrieza on January 5, 2014

Hindering Bug

Bugs and glitches in a game which don't prevent progress, but do make it more difficult.

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
The player is infiltrating the Big Bad's stronghold, but then something happens. the characters are missing an arm or leg, maybe the colors of the cutscene are completely off, maybe the player can't reach a particular chest because part of the scenery is missing, but the player is still able to complete the game regardless.

This is a Hindering Bug, a glitch in the game that shows up, causes havoc, and then leaves as quickly as it came. Particularly egregious examples might have the player have to live with that glitch the ENTIRE RUN OF THE GAME in order to complete it. Some are merely irritating, others can make the game much more difficult to complete, or prevent some playstyles from being possible.

Compare Game-Breaking Bug, where such a bug actually prevents the player from being able to complete parts of the game at all, and contrast Good Bad Bugs, where the glitch is actually beneficial to the player.


Examples:

Stealth
  • In Dishonored, the first assassination mission has Corvo attempting to kill or discredit the High Overseer Campbell, who is also attempting to poison a person that Corvo must protect to complete a sidequest. For this the player must enter the meeting room and either switch the poison glasses, poison both, or break both glasses for the discredit option. The problem is a bug of unknown cause which sometimes causes the 2 of them to go on alert the moment Corvo enters the meeting room, regardless of where or how, making killing people with the poison glasses as well as witnessing the entire scene impossible.
Strategy
  • Survival The Ultimate Challenge has several quirks and bugs which make the game more difficult to play than was intended.
    • Having a survivor interact with certain objects causes the survivor to drop an object they're already holding, while interacting with other objects doesn't do this.
    • Some objects, including animals and occasionally, survivors, spawn in at a location which cannot be walked on, making resources inaccessible to the survivors or trapping survivors in a place where they cannot move.
  • Armor Games' Web Game Warfare 1917. Sometimes when a unit is moving forward it will get stuck while entering a trench and effectively cease to exist (can't do anything) even though it's still on the screen.
  • XCOM: Enemy Unknown: It's possible for a SHIV to be spawned without a weapon, making it useless for anything other than scouting and a few rounds of alien target practice. On higher difficulties the loss of a spot on the squad can end the mission before it begins and the precious time and resources that went into building that defective unit (or worse, several of them) can potentially sink a whole game.
First Person Shooter
  • Borderlands retains a glitch with the car and ammunition and health capacity upgrades. Upon exiting the car your equipped weapons and health bar will only be filled to their base capacity, rather than including the amount your class mod and skill points have upgraded them by.

Western RPG
  • The last version of Neverwinter Nights 2 released before the Hasbro lawsuit against the publisher stopped all patches retained a randomly occurring bug where characters would walk a ways under keyboard control, but then when they stopped they would keep using the walk animation. If the player started them walking again, they would go a bit further, then suddenly snap back to where they started walking from.
Platformer
  • The fact that you will occasionally fall through the platforms in Ice Climber.
  • There is a glitch in the original Sonic the Hedgehog where the final boss can be hit during his defeat animation, which, if done, will cause him to now take 255 hits to defeat, thus making the fight all but Unwinnable until Sonic loses a life.
Other
  • Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines had a bug where, depending on your class, the tutorial required you to use a power you don't have, thus rendering it unplayable. However, since the tutorial is optional, it's not a Game-Breaking Bug.
  • In the DS port of Plants vs. Zombies, when playing Adventure Mode for the second time, Crazy Dave's three plants that he picks for you will stay the same for each individual level (unlike other versions where it is random every time), even if you restart your DS.
  • Nongame example: In the Windows versions of GIMP 2.8 there was a shearing bug where if you use the Spacebar to scroll the window around too fast, redraw events start firing faster than the program can actually process them. This leads to massive graphical garbage and system lag, but when it's all cleared up it's actually quite harmless to the document content.
Community Feedback Replies: 69
  • July 23, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    I created this to be a halfway point between Good Bad Bugs and Game Breaking Bug.
  • July 24, 2013
    Melkior
    • Survival The Ultimate Challenge has several quirks and bugs which make the game more difficult to play than was intended.
      • Having a survivor interact with certain objects causes the survivor to drop an object they're already holding, while interacting with other objects doesn't do this.
      • Some objects, including animals and occasionally, survivors, spawn in at a location which cannot be walked on, making resources inaccessible to the survivors or trapping survivors in a place where they cannot move.
  • July 24, 2013
    DracMonster
    Hmm... Would this be YMMV? It's kind of rendering a "this sucks!" judgement but most examples probably wouldn't be controversial as such. Not sure.
  • July 24, 2013
    Stratadrake
    This is most definitely YMMV. Not seeing much of a trope here, sorry. Bugs just ... happen. Sometimes you do wonder how one got past QA, but still.
  • July 24, 2013
    StarSword
    When I asked how Game Breaking Bug was a trope, I was told "because it affects the player's experience of the game" by a moderator (forget which one). I agree it's not necessarily objective, but I think it's a trope nonetheless.

    First Person Shooter:
    • Borderlands retains a glitch with the car and ammunition and health capacity upgrades. Upon exiting the car your equipped weapons and health bar will only be filled to their base capacity, rather than including the amount your class mod and skill points have upgraded them by.

    Western RPG:
    • The last version of Neverwinter Nights 2 released before the Hasbro lawsuit against the publisher stopped all patches retained a randomly occurring bug where characters would walk a ways under keyboard control, but then when they stopped they would keep using the walk animation. If the player started them walking again, they would go a bit further, then suddenly snap back to where they started walking from.
  • July 24, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    It's only YMMV in the sense that some people might not be bothered by these bugs or in some cases even encounter them, but it's not in the sense that these bugs still exist whether people are annoyed by them or not. I don't know how to put such a trope.

    As Star Sword said, it's tropeworthy for the same reason Game Breaking Bug and Good Bad Bugs are, they are something unintentional which affects how the player experiences the game, and the same applies to this.
  • July 24, 2013
    DAN004
    Sorry, but wouldn't any "bug that isn't Game Breaking Bug or Good Bad Bugs" refer to this instead? Thus (I think) this is hardly tropable...
  • July 25, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    I created this so that there would be a place for notable bugs that don't fit into either of those 2 tropes. Bugs can be bothersome but not ruin one's ability to beat a game, as well as having no benefit to the player, and this is where those go.
  • July 25, 2013
    Arivne
    Edit: Deleted as it's not "persistent and/or VERY annoying."
  • July 25, 2013
    Stratadrake
    ^^ Chairs can be bothersome too, have no benefit to the reader, and not ruin the writer's ability to construct a plot or navigate a dark room.
  • July 25, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Not cool pal.
  • July 25, 2013
    StarSword
    I do think we should find some way to restrict examples, otherwise we're going to have every bug in history here. Perhaps just bugs that are still present in the final cut of the game?
  • July 26, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Maybe I should put something like:

    "Only put as examples notable bugs, as in ones which are persistent and/or VERY annoying. Bugs which makes a game harder to complete than it otherwise would be without it. Things like a 5 second graphical glitches or other minor bugs are not important enough to be mentioned."

    In the description. What does everybody think?
  • July 26, 2013
    HonorsBlond
    Debating if this would qualify, but it did end up in the final version of the original arcade game.

    The Ur Example could be Space Invaders the early version introduced the idea of scaling by complete accident. The hardware available at the time wasn't strong enough to handle all the enemies on the screen at the same time, which meant that at the start of the game players would deal with slower aliens. Only by destroying the aliens did the speed of the remaining enemies travel at the speed originally set for the game as the processing speed increased with fewer characters to keep track of.
  • July 26, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Since that's something taken advantage of by the creators in order to make the game better, that might be Good Bad Bugs.
  • August 6, 2013
    StarSword
    Actually, that one's covered by Ascended Glitch.
  • August 6, 2013
    IAmATropist
    • The fact that you will occasionally fall through the platforms in Ice Climber.
  • August 19, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Ok, anybody have any more or is this good?
  • August 19, 2013
    Stratadrake
  • August 19, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^ What does THAT have to do with anything?
  • August 19, 2013
    Stratadrake
    An either/or fallacy is to assume that an issue only has two options (ignoring any Take A Third Option that could be available).

    ...I wasn't in the best mood at the time of making that earlier post. As far as this YKTTW goes, my thinking is simple and blunt: No trope here, YMMV and/or Trivia at best.
  • August 19, 2013
    IAmATropist
    • There is a glitch in the original Sonic The Hedgehog where the final boss can be hit during his defeat animation, which, if done, will cause him to now take 255 hits to defeat, thus making the fight Unwinnable until Sonic loses a life.
  • August 19, 2013
    Piearty
    Forgive me, I do not play a lot of video games, but isn't this the assumed status for any glitch? With game breakers being frustrating throw-your-console-at-the-wall disappointments and good bad bugs being amusing, if not helpful, pleasant surprises? A glitch that just happens and is kind of irritating but then you can just ignore it doesn't feel tropeworthy to me.
  • August 19, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    That's why it's called Annoying Bugs. There should be a point between bugs that completely wreck the game and ones that help out, because there are plenty of bugs that are notable but don't do either.
  • August 20, 2013
    DAN004
    ^ Then they ain't notable. At least tell me why it's notable at all. :P
  • August 20, 2013
    Stratadrake
    "Notable" is YMMV, you know. "Game breaking" (e.g. game becomes unwinnable or save file corrupted) and "exploitable" (positive side effects) are not.
  • August 20, 2013
    randomsurfer
    Another non-gamer here: would it make sense for this to be one of those "no examples please this just defines the term" pages so that people can list it on the work page for the videogame in question?
  • August 20, 2013
    Stratadrake
    That only works if the term is a pre-established thing outside TV Tropes.
  • August 20, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Do I really need to say why a bug that annoys the hell out of the player is notable and tropable? I'd think it was self explanatory.

    Besides, does it REALLY matter if this is YMMV or not? It's still a trope regardless.
  • August 20, 2013
    Stratadrake
    There's a reason "Self Explanatory" redirects to Not Self Explanatory....

    YMMV is not, technically speaking, a trope.
  • August 20, 2013
    randomsurfer
    Irrespective of everything else, please remove the Circular Link from the description.
  • August 21, 2013
    DAN004
    Hmm, I must mean "tropable" when I said "notable". :P
  • August 21, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^ If something is notable, it is tropable.

    ^^ There is no circular link in the description.

    ^^^ YMMV are as much tropes as anything else on this wiki. If you want to get technical, then technically speaking, ALL the tropes on this Wiki are YMMV.
  • August 21, 2013
    Stratadrake
    ^ Wrong, tropes are objective things that either do or do not appear in a work; there is little to no YMMV about that.

    ^ A Circular Link is when an article links to itself, a la Title Drop. It's been taken out by now, but it was indeed there. In a broader sense it is still there (paragraph 2, "this is an Annoying Bug"), it's just not formatted as a link anymore.

    On a similar note, you may also want to take out the Example As A Thesis.

  • August 21, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^ There are plenty of people who either don't notice or don't care about particular tropes, thus they are all technically YMMV. The only exceptions are examples where the trope is lampshaded, thus being specifically mentioned, and even then it only make the example itself not YMMV, not the trope as a whole.

    Regardless, YMMV tropes are still tropes, otherwise they wouldn't even be YMMV tropes on this wiki at all. If you want a YMMV flag thrown on, fine, but it's still going to be treated like as much of a trope as anything else on this wiki.

    I don't know about you, but I can't think of a better way to describe this trope than with that Example As A Thesis. If you have a suggestion, put one up.
  • August 21, 2013
    Stratadrake
    ^ Whether people notice or care about adding tropes does not affect whether said tropes actually exist in the work or not -- in other words, still not YMMV. A Timed Mission is not YMMV. Gender Bender is not YMMV. And so on.

    The YMMV flag is used primarily as a way to combat edit wars over whether or not something is an example of the trope's definition. Like the Complete Monster ("character with no morally redeeming qualities").
  • August 21, 2013
    DAN004
    Good Bad Bug and Game Breaking Bug are YMMV already... :P
  • August 21, 2013
    billybobfred
    ... Frankly, I don't think we need this specific trope, so much as the Missing Supertrope to this, Good Bad Bugs, and Game Breaking Bug. "Bugs in general", I guess.

    I mean. Create this too if that's the consensus. But there's definitely a supertrope here, and I think we need that more than this.
  • August 21, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^That's more or less what this was intended to be, I'm just limiting the bugs to more annoying ones (hence the name) because if it just went with any bug it would have thousands of examples.
  • August 21, 2013
    Stratadrake
    "Bugs in general" are the Video Game incarnation of Bloopers: an error or oversight that wasn't intentional, but can be picked up on by the audience (sometimes requiring close inspection). That is all. Not an actual trope, but nor YMMV -- just trivia.
  • August 21, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^Trivia doesn't really effect a gamer's experience with a game, the trope I made DOES, which is why it qualifies as a trope.
  • August 22, 2013
    Stratadrake
    Bloopers do not generally affect the audience's experience with a work either, do they? Still Not A Trope.

    Now on to the YMMV versus Trivia question. For example, in the latest LEGO game (Legend of Chima: Laval's Journey) there is an occasional bug where your lifebar suddenly appears empty (the game fails to display its actual value). It goes away the moment you switch characters. Is it a bug? Yes, and it's objective to say so. But is it annoying? There's the YMMV.
  • August 22, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Bugs and Bloopers are VERY different. Bloopers unintentional mistakes that the audience is unlikely to ever see, bugs are unintentional mistakes that most all of the audience will experience at least 1 or 2 of, which is why the former is trivia while the latter is a trope. Most everyone will encounters bugs of some sort in all games, while Bloopers are usually never seen unless the audience goes out of their way to look at the Blooper reel in most media. Still a trope.

    Annoying Bugs is just as much of a trope as it's sister tropes Game Breaking Bug and Good Bad Bugs are for much the same reasons. This trope is a place for bugs which don't fit into either of the 2 very well if at all.

    Again, why does it matter if it's YMMV or not? It's still as much of a trope as anything else on this website.
  • August 22, 2013
    DAN004
    ^ YMMV and Trivia aren't "tropes", so to say.
  • August 22, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Yes YMMV tropes are still tropes, and this one isn't trivia either. Whether it's opinionated or not, a trope is still a trope. Really, based on what I've seen here, the only reasons given why this doesn't qualify as a trope seem to just be very arbitrary nitpicking at the very most.
  • August 22, 2013
    Stratadrake
    "Bloopers unintentional mistakes that the audience is unlikely to ever see ... bugs are unintentional mistakes that most all of the audience will experience at least 1 or 2 of..."

    NOT true. Bloopers can range from obvious (Special Effects Failure, Visible Boom Mic, etc.) to obscure (continuity detail off). Bugs can range from obvious (easily encountered) to obscure (seemingly random or when-the-stars-align inexplicable). The only real difference between them is medium. (You've never subscribed to a developer mailing list before, have you?)

    And on the issue of tropability: Ignoring myself and you, I see about two users saying this probably is not tropable but I don't see anyone else arguing in your favor (ignoring posts whose only contribution is suggesting examples).

    And note that Bloopers are not a trope; they objectively exist in a work, and there are tropes derived from them, but the bloopers themselves are not a trope..
  • August 22, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^Stratadrake, I've gotten into this long rambling argument with you that hasn't gone anywhere, and I've had enough. All you've done is constantly say my trope is not a trope over and over again despite having no grounds for it whatsoever and have never contributed to making it better in any way. If you don't think this is a trope, then help me modify it to qualify or something that's otherwise helpful instead of complaining about it. This is a trope, and I've given more than enough reasons why it is already. You have not been helpful in the least and I'm tired of it. Either contribute positively in some manner or quit replying.
  • August 23, 2013
    SeptimusHeap
    First off, being YMMV and Trivia means it's not a trope, not that it's not YKTTW-worthy. So people using that argument should at least specify what they are arguing for, since there is rather wide disagreement about whether trivia and YMMV are YKTTW-worthy.

    That said, I guess that "hindering bug" could fit the definition of a trope, but the title sounds like "bug I don't like"; it needs a better name thusly.
  • August 23, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^Actually, I like that title better, sounds a little clearer as to what I intend this trope to be.
  • August 23, 2013
    godofgamers
    If I recall, Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines had a thing where, depending on your class, the tutorial required you to use a power you don't have, thus rendering it unplayable. However, since the tutorial is optional, it's not a Game Breaking Bug.
  • August 23, 2013
    Stratadrake
    I wouldn't mind a page akin to Blooper (as I've mentioned, that's basically what a bug is already, only on a software level), but it would have to be more or less example-less because pretty much every piece of software has some kind of bugs (though not all are noticeable) and where do we draw the line between what is "notable" or not? We can't just go listing every software bug ever that somebody knows about....

    For example, IIRC in the PSX rerelease of Final Fantasy 6 they misspelled "Fenrir" as "Fenris" at one point. Do you know how annoying that is? But it's strictly cosmetic, doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest (unlike the infamous Sketch bug from the SNES original -- which was only game-breaking if it actually happened, otherwise you'd never encounter it).

    Or a non-game example: In the Windows versions of GIMP 2.8 there was a shearing bug where if you use the Spacebar to scroll the window around too fast, redraw events start firing faster than the program can actually process them. This leads to massive graphical garbage and system lag, but when it's all cleared up it's actually quite harmless to the document content.
  • August 23, 2013
    DAN004
    Okay, current title and laconic sounds much better. :D
  • August 23, 2013
    IAmATropist
    • In the DS port of Plants Vs Zombies, when playing Adventure Mode for the second time, Crazy Dave's three plants that he picks for you will stay the same for each individual level (unlike other versions where it is random every time), even if you restart your DS.
  • August 23, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^^^Actually, this works as an example for this.

    "Or a non-game example: In the Windows versions of GIMP 2.8 there was a shearing bug where if you use the Spacebar to scroll the window around too fast, redraw events start firing faster than the program can actually process them. This leads to massive graphical garbage and system lag, but when it's all cleared up it's actually quite harmless to the document content."
  • August 23, 2013
    Stratadrake
    I'm also subscribed to the GIMP mailing list, I've personally seen much of the discussion and reports with users complaining about it and wondering when it's going to be fixed. Odd part was it was OS-specific; never happened on GIMP's native Linux builds, only the Windows build and GIMP has no official Windows developers. Turns out it wasn't strictly GIMP's fault but rather a bug in the win32 version of the GTK+ library it runs on. Still waiting to see GIMP updated to the fixed GTK though.
  • September 2, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    Anything else of relevance or can this get launched now?
  • September 2, 2013
    bwburke94
    We still need four more hats.
  • September 3, 2013
    DracMonster
    Take Up My Hat... use it with honor... <<chokes on blood, dies>>
  • September 3, 2013
    immortalfrieza
    ^Heh, thanks. Anyone else?
  • September 3, 2013
    arbiter099
    Turn Based Tactics
    • XCOM Enemy Unknown: It's possible for a SHIV to be spawned without a weapon, making it useless for anything other than scouting and a few rounds of alien target practice. On higher difficulties the loss of a spot on the squad can end the mission before it begins and the precious time and resources that went into building that defective unit (or worse, several of them) can potentially sink a whole game.
  • January 4, 2014
    IAmATropist
    • Pokemon Red And Blue have a few:
      • The move Focus Energy is meant to raise a Pokemon's critical hit ratio. Nevertheless, a glitch causes the move to lower a Pokemon's critical hit ratio (this bug is only fixed in Pokemon Stadium).
      • Ghost-type moves are supposed to be super effective aginst Psychic-type Pokemon. Irritatingly, a glitch causes Psychic-type Pokemon to be immune to Ghost-type moves.
    • In Pokemon X And Y, the Pokemon Inkay should able to evolve starting at Level 30 if you turn the 3DS/2DS upside down. A glitch causes it to be able to evolve only at Level 30.
  • January 4, 2014
    IAmATropist
    ^Why don't accents work in YKTT Ws?
  • January 4, 2014
    Someoneman
    I have another argument in favor of this being an objective trope: I was told once that bugs and glitches (Game Breaking Bug specifically) count as storytelling conventions because they are when the story isn't told as intended. This also counts as the "story" (from a troping point of view, gameplay counts as a story) not being told as intended by the creator.
  • January 4, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
    ^ doesn't make it a fact though.

    I believe this is is not a trope, but a Trivia. Bugs, by nature are a defect that makes something work incorrectly.

    and what happens when something does not work as intended? Right, they hinder you.

    Why does this make Game Breaking Bug and Good Bad Bugs tropes?

  • January 4, 2014
    Chabal2
    • Dawn Of War: In the original, skirmish games always set the AI players to the exact same faction colors, making it difficult to tell which army was which. Later games randomized the colors.
      • Many tooltips remained unchanged from one expansion to another, ranging from misleading (commander units being able to detect cloaked units, now only true for some of them) to some being completely wrong (the psyker's abilities having a chance to kill the psyker. If only...).
      • Soulstorm: among its many, many issues, the Sisters of Battle have a cap of 19 (instead of 20 like all other factions), only going to 20 once their relic unit is built (and there are some maps where relic units can't be built).
    • Warcraft III: Several game mechanics were changed in the game's expansion (such as the Storm Bolt ability no longer being able to stun mechanical units or Goblin Sappers unable to be loaded into Zeppelins). Which wouldn't be so bad beyond angering the Scrubs, but several campaign missions in the original explicitly recommended these techniques, which could no longer be used if the expansion was installed. The game is still beatable without them, however.

  • January 4, 2014
    m8e
    Not to be confused with Hindenburg. :P

  • January 4, 2014
    KarjamP
    That's more or less what this was intended to be, I'm just limiting the bugs to more annoying ones (hence the name) because if it just went with any bug it would have thousands of examples.

    No Trope Is Too Common.

    After all, "Plot" is a trope, and so is "Characters".

    Because of these, it's safe to say that it's possible to expand this to be about bugs in general.
  • January 4, 2014
    DAN004
    ^ Then I don't think we need examples at all here.
  • January 5, 2014
    SeptimusHeap
    Well, yes, we do need examples to illustrate how it works. Plot is already troped in descriptions and Characters are usually listed there, too.

    Also, it's not a problem if a page has a lot of examples.
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