Created By: StarSword on October 14, 2012 Last Edited By: StarSword on November 10, 2012
Nuked

Turbocharged Turtler

Good at defense and evasion, not so good on attack.

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope

Indices: Competitive Balance, Power at a Price, Velocity Index, Videogame Characters

Name suggestions:


In video games some competitors are really fast and hard to hit, but go down with one punch. Others are easy to dodge, but one hit and you're gone.

Then there's this guy. He moves fast and can take blows without flinching, but his own strikes just don't have anything behind them. He may have a poor selection of attacks, and he probably relies on the Death of a Thousand Cuts, peppering you with weak blows until you keel over.

Subtrope of Stone Wall, which tends to have the toughness but not the speed (or be tough because he's fast). Compare Gradual Grinder, as well as Lightning Bruiser, which is a fighter who is fast, tough, and powerful, as well as the other common Competitive Balance types. Contrast the Glass Cannon, who has nothing but firepower.

Examples:

[[folder:Comic Books]]
  • X-Men villain the Blob may qualify. Despite his girth he was by no means a slow mover, and because of his girth he was extremely hard to damage.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Video Games]] Fighting Games

MMORPGs
  • World of Warcraft:
    • Retribution paladins used to play like this in PVP. They had high defense and the ability to negate movement impairing spells cast upon them. More importantly they had strong self healing potential even in DPS mode allowing them to outlast almost any opponent. Sadly they were one of weakest damage dealers of all PVP DPS specs. Later expansions boosted Paladin damage and weakened their self heals in retribution mode, as paladins were complaining about being unable to kill anyone and everyone else was complaining about being unable to kill a paladin.
    • A Warrior in skilled hands can be described as a Stone Wall with a jet engine strapped to it. Their "charge" techniques allow them to close with a target quite rapidly.

Simulation Games
  • Terran military vessels in the X-Universe games are often this. While they're always very durable and tend to be a good bit faster than class average, their damage output is weak thanks largely to a poor selection of guns. Their heavy fighters have to use guns better suited to an interceptor, and their frigates rely on corvette-weight weaponry. As for the heavy capitals, their guns are about equal to the Commonwealth's in base damage, but the rate of fire is way lower.
  • MechWarrior: Living Legends has the Hephaestus hovercraft. It's fast, has pathetic weaponry, but the armor of a 60 ton main battle tank. It presumably gained the Fan Nickname "Hepatitis" by being so hard to get rid of.
[[/folder]]

Rolling Updates

Community Feedback Replies: 30
  • October 14, 2012
    StarSword
    Now taking trope name suggestions. I'm drawing a blank.
  • October 15, 2012
    dsollen
    this is close to Gradual Grinder.

    For a name perhaps a play on glass cannon. something like Titanium peashooter?

    For an example:

    Retribution paladins in World Of Warcraft use to play like this in PVP. They had high defense and the ability to negate movement impairing spells cast upon them. More importantly they had strong self healing potential even in DPS mode allowing them to outlast almost any opponent. Sadly they were one of weakest damage dealers of all pvp DPS specks. Later expansions boosted Paladin damage and weakened their self heals in retribution mode; as paladins were complaining about being unable to kill anyone and everyone else was complaining about being unable to kill a paladin
  • October 15, 2012
    PsiPaula4
    Titanium Peashooter made me laugh. That's great.
  • October 15, 2012
    norsicnumber2nd
    Good Defender or Weak At Offense or Awful Attacker (for alliteration). Basically anything that says that they're your front line of defence, but can't attack to save their pie. Titanium Peashooter is great, but how many people would get it?
  • October 16, 2012
    longWriter
    Titanium Peashooter is hilarious, but I'm actually creating a game right now that has a character that meets this description: high defense and fast, but very low damage.

    I was using the phrase "Turbo Turtle" to describe it.
  • October 16, 2012
    undefined
    At the risk of making a possibly bad snowclone: Titanium Cherry Tapper
  • October 16, 2012
    StarSword
    Ooh, I like Turbo Turtle. Titanium Peashooter is nice but doesn't sound quite right, like an inverted Glass Cannon. EDIT: Which come to think of it, is exactly what this is, but it doesn't get into the speed issue.

    Added the Retribution Paladin example.
  • October 16, 2012
    rolranx
    oh I suggested titanium peashooter because it amused me, but I'll admit it probably isn't a good final title. However, not sure I like Turbo Turtle either. I like the alteration, but when I think of turtle I think of either slow or defending (ie 'turtleing' as defined in a MMO). So Turbo Turtle makes me think of either Mighty Glacer only more so, or some class focusing on defensive abilities for protecting some sort of objective point (or a tank class).

    As for the speed issue though, perhaps the trope shouldn't emphasis high mobility explicitly? Obviously anyone with low mobility is going to be a Mighty Glacier but I would think this trope may fit more examples if it applied to anyone with normal or higher mobility but still maintaining the high survivability/low damage ratio.

    Like with the Paladin example I gave; paladins really aren't noticeable more mobile, even with their ability to be immune to movement impairing spells (druids were the high mobility class), but they still weren't Mighty Glacier or Gradual Grinder so they need a trope that fits them. Would you be opposed to changing it from 'highly mobile' to just 'not low mobility'?
  • October 16, 2012
    undefined
    Hate to say this, but Stone Wall already covers evasion and Scratch Damage as a possible variety of itself.
  • October 16, 2012
    StarSword
    Maybe Turbocharged Turtle?

    I think we maybe call the paladin example a variation.
  • October 17, 2012
    longWriter
    Stone Wall does have some high-speed examples, but looking at the page's image, slow speed looks like it's supposed to be a part of it. That being said, re-reading the description of Stone Wall implies that slow speed isn't necessarily a part of the Stone Wall trope.

    Maybe this discussion is getting into the question of whether Stone Wall needs to be split or not...or maybe it just needs another image.
  • October 17, 2012
    DRCEQ
    With enough examples, a subtrope can be split off from Stone Wall. Also, the description doesn't quite cover what this trope is aiming for. It implies that high speed version of the Stone Wall are only based on dodging and evasion. Nothing about being able to take a hit incase that fails.

    Scour the examples, they are the best bet
  • October 17, 2012
    SinisterShenanigans
    @DRCEQ Exactly. Looking at the page image provided, Stone Wall is more being able to dish it specifically without any component of speed. If Stone Wall was this trope, then the image would cover the speed part of that graph as well.

    Of course, the only real way for this to become a trope is for it to attain examples. It feels like I've seen it before, but I'll come back (possibly) when I think of something specific.
  • October 18, 2012
    StarSword
    Came here planning to discard for being too similar to Stone Wall, but ended up declaring it a subtrope instead since there appears to be some interest. Now heading to Stone Wall to mine examples.
  • October 18, 2012
    DRCEQ
    You should change the title to "Turtler" to indicate that the trope is not Turtles or other terrapins, but someone who turtles
  • October 18, 2012
    StarSword
    Good point.
  • October 18, 2012
    DRCEQ
    I think the name could work, at least good enough to launch the trope. Now all we need are examples. Sadly, I can't think of anything... Nothing definitive anyway. All that comes to mind are characters who's stats and playstyle can be adjusted based on equipment given to them. None where they are this trope by default.
  • October 18, 2012
    nitrokitty
    These whole "specific arrangement of stats" tropes are starting to get ridiculous.
  • October 18, 2012
    DRCEQ
    ^ The Competitive Balance tropes are almost all covered in every aspect. No reason to exclude the remaining few still missing if it's possible to prove that examples exist.
  • October 22, 2012
    longWriter
    The good news is that I've found some examples, or near-examples.

    The bad news---at this time, I have no idea how to format them.

    >>>Video games:

    Yoshi from Super Smash Bros. Brawl

    Metal Mario from Super Smash Bros.?

    Q from Street Fighter 3?

    Hakumen from Blaz Blue

    A Scout with Bonk has high speed and is invulnerable for a few seconds?

    Warriors in World of Warcraft: "...However, where speed is concerned, skilled Warriors tend to be more 'Stone Wall with a jet engine strapped to it'..."

    Mech Warrior Living Legends has the Hephaestus (better known as "Hepatitis") hovercraft. It's fast, has pathetic weaponry, but has the armor of a 60 ton main battle tank

    >>>Comics:

    The X-men's enemy Blob may qualify; he wasn't slow, but he was hard or impossible to damage.
  • October 22, 2012
    StarSword
    Does anyone know who put together the Competitive Balance page pictures?

    Thanks for the examples, longWriter. I'll get the rest of them in as time permits (I have to leave for school in a few minutes).
  • October 29, 2012
    DRCEQ
    ^^ Hakumen is NOT this trope. Speed is not one of his strong points.

    Most of those examples are all Zero Context Examples. Nothing to tell why or how they should fit.
  • October 29, 2012
    longWriter
    At this rate, I'm going to have to speed up the creation of that game I was working on with a Turbocharged Turtler in it just so that this trope will have a solid example!

    Would it help if I said that character was Pinkie Pie?
  • October 30, 2012
    willthiswork
    I think there is a valuable difference between a character defined as defensive and slow and one defined as defensive and fast, but where is the line drawn between the two? Is this trope for characters who are defensive and fast or characters who are defensive and not slow? Should Stone Wall be tweaked for clarity? Should we create a trope for high speed and attack and pull it apart from Glass Cannon and Fragile Speedster (several examples in fragile speedster are also offensively capable). I feel like adding a new trope to this group cannot be done well without really clarifiying the other tropes and cleaning the examples to make sure the difference is as clear as possible.
  • October 30, 2012
    nitrokitty
    As it stands right now, Stone Wall already covers this trope in its entirety. If you want to split or redefine the trope, that's a job for the Trope Repair Shop, not YKTTW. Motion to discard.
  • November 6, 2012
    WaxingName
    Also I've proposed the simpler solution of just making these archetypes separate from the triangle altogether and putting them under Necessary Drawback instead. You can read this page of this thread for more information.
  • November 7, 2012
    troacctid
    I also support discarding it. It's already covered by Stone Wall and it's not meaningfully distinct.
  • November 8, 2012
    QuestionMarker
    I should mention that another YKTTW exists which might be the same thing: Durable Speedster 1. See also the Repair Shop on the Competitive Balance page.
  • November 8, 2012
    StarSword
    I actually like the Durable Speedster name better. I'd be willing to merge the two.
  • November 10, 2012
    shimaspawn
    <Mod Hat> What exists here that isn't covered by other tropes? We do not need to trope every single possible combination of fighting power, defense, and speed. Both this and Durable Speedster will be discarded.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=44wv6fuo05ej3j57rdzepp77&trope=DiscardedYKTTW