Line #34 YMMV/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne


1	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
2	** Chiaki and Isamu eventually come to form reasons; but are their reasons what they believe is best for the world or just them reacting to the hurt they endured (Isamu withdraws and Chiaki just tries to muscle others out).
3	** Given the chance, would Hijiri really have [[spoiler:crucified Isamu or the Demi Fiend]] like Isamu did to him? Isamu claims that he would have, and Hijiri claims that denying anything wouldn't get him anywhere.
4	** Did Hijiri really turn evil when he said he wanted a hand at the Conception, or is he aware of his FateWorseThanDeath [[AndIMustScream situation]] and he wanted to try breaking free of it? Note that his breakdown only comes after he's mentioned that he can see and know everything through the Amala Network. It's possible that some of that "knowledge" was his fate, and if so, then it'd explain why he suddenly took such an interest in forming a Reason. Alternatively, realizing his fate could have made him GoMadFromTheRevelation.
5	** Yuko displays an attachment to the protagonist that she not only doesn't show to either Isamu or Chiaki, but which appears to go beyond what a proper relationship between a student and teacher should be, but what exactly the nature of that attachment is is never elaborated on. Does she see herself as a ParentalSubstitute for him? [[StudentTeacherRomance Does she have romantic feelings for him]]? Or is he just her favorite student? The fact that the Demi-Fiend is a blank slate whose personality and background is vague at best only adds more room for interpretation.
6	** Is Yuko's failure to conceive a reason really the result of her own self-doubt, or is that claim just Hikawa being petty? Every human who created a Reason did so only after gathering an enormous amount of Magatsuhi. Yuko attempted to accomplish this as well by obtaining the Yahiro no Himorogi, however, this plan failed purely because of Sakahagi draining its power before she could obtain it. It's very easy to read her not being able to form a Reason not because of a personal weakness on her part, but because of Sakahagi's interference.
7	* AnticlimaxBoss:
8	** After the last and most difficult Reason boss, Baal Avatar, comes the FinalBoss, Kagutsuchi. Compared to Baal Avatar, Kagutsuchi doesn't have much in the way of annoying gimmicks and doesn't react much to buffs or debuffs, only relying on damage numbers to pose a threat. Fully buffing and debuffing turns the fight into a cakewalk.
9	** [[spoiler:Sakahagi]]. While you fight him right after taking down Girimekhala (the first boss to reflect physical attacks) and given no chance to heal, he only knows second-tier elemental spells and can be easily taken out in one turn. Not helping that you keep all the buffs you have against the preceding demon and [[spoiler:Sakahagi]] doesn't have a lot of MP. While he does pose a mild threat in that he can easily finish you off if you're weak enough from the preceding boss fight, if you survive his first attack, you're more than likely going to be fine.
10	** In a weird way, the TrueFinalBoss, [[spoiler: Lucifer]]. While he's more challenging than Kagutsuchi, getting to him requires going through the BrutalBonusLevel and multiple sadistic {{Superboss}} fights, making him feel easy by comparison. You're also likely to have Pierce on the main character by then.
11	* {{Applicability}}: Some fans have taken a "fuck the system if it's corrupt" idea from the game, since all the Reasons are some shade of grayish-black, the only truly good character is a Demi-Fiend who goes for the Freedom ending, and [[spoiler:what's considered the True Ending, the True Demon Ending, involving the Demi-Fiend rendering Kagutsuchi DeaderThanDead, destroying the CycleOfDeathAndRebirth, and marching to beat the crap out of {{God}}]].
12	* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: The 3D-rendered locales and animated demon models are ''gorgeous'', demonstrating that Atlus was able to pull off the VideoGame3DLeap on the first try and seamlessly translate Kaneko's unique style to the third dimension.
13	* BaseBreakingCharacter:
14	** Dante. Some fans find him and his scenes badass, and love his inclusion in the game as both a boss ''and'' a recruitable character. Others, however, argue that he doesn't fit in with the game's overall tone and that his actions are immersion-breaking.
15	** While all three Reasons could qualify, Chiaki tends to get this the most. Whereas Hikawa starts and ends the game just as evil as he seems and Isamu quickly gains an apathetic personality that turns many players away, Chiaki, on the other hand, starts off somewhat smug before the Conception, only to fall apart when the world collapses. Instead of joining you however, her pride turns her away from helping you, and every subsequent scene characterizes her as pettier and pettier until she's declaring her superiority over all else who won't join her cause. On the other hand, she's easily the most friendly human towards the Demi-Fiend if you agree with her, and expresses some OnlySaneMan traits before and early during the Conception. Her downward spiral can be cathartic to watch until she [[spoiler:[[MoralEventHorizon slaughters the Manikins]]]], at which point the player will likely [[LoveToHate want to see her pay for all she's done]]. As a result, Chiaki tends to be either sympathetic for the above events, or solidified into the most unlikable human in the cast.
16	* BestLevelEver: The [[BonusDungeon Labyrinth of Amala]] and the Diet Building are often cited as the most memorable dungeons in the game, the former for its sheer length and difficulty and the latter for its atmosphere, unique optical illusion gimmick and its bosses (particularly [[ThatOneBoss Mot]])
17	* BreatherBoss:
18	** Thor's second fight. Sure, he'll start using [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard Dragon Eye]] when he hits half health, but really, you should be able to drop him from his full 8000 to 5000 fast, and then finish him in one turn.
19	** Mara, even though he heals himself to full health on every turn. His strongest attack is Hades Blast, which isn't that bad even though it deals a boatload of damage. You're also forced to fight him during a full Kagutsuchi, thus enabling Bright Might. Bring a few demons that have it, and he'll be dead before he gets a turn.
20	** To a much greater extent, Mithra is often considered by players to be the easiest boss of the game ([[NintendoHard not particularly saying much]]). The majority of his turns are wasted on Expel or Death spells, which are inaccurate and easily blocked by that point, meaning that even after using Dragon Eye, he'll end up not doing much. He is also quite frail for such a late-game boss, as he can be killed within less than 4 turns with little trouble. The only thing that can (not necessarily) mess you up in this battle is that you'll be unlikely to be immune to Death AND Expel at the same time at this point of the game. And unlike when you unlock him for fusion, Mithra does not reflect Physical attacks when you fight him.
21	** Black Rider is one of the easier Fiends due to not having any way to deal with buffs and debuffs and having no other gimmick like Daisoujou and Trumpeter other than being a FlunkyBoss. Don't get too complacent though, as he does have Megidolaon.
22	** Surt, found in the Diet Building. Three of his six moves (Ragnarok, Hellfire, and his counter) are fire element, and of his other three, only one deals physical damage. If you have the Demi-Fiend ingest Gehenna and buff him up a few times with Rakukaja for if Surt gets too happy with his physical attack, you can set the battle the auto and walk away for a few minutes and come back to a win screen.
23	* BreatherLevel:
24	** In contrast to the first visit (see ThatOneLevel), and the long Obelisk dungeon preceding it, the second visit to the Amala Network can feel like a joke. It's much shorter than the first time, the first few floors use the same encounters as the first visit (so should be no problem this late in) and even among the later encounters the only one that's mildly threatening is Legion, and while the second Specter fight comes with no healing beforehand, that's a blessing in disguise as the fight is ''easier'' if you enter with your MP depleted. (Which ruins its drain gimmick) Even if you don't know how to cheese the fight, you've got considerably better access to good Demons at this point, so it should be less of an issue than the first time.
25	** After the sheer hell that is the Fourth Kalpa, with its cursed hallways and absolutely brutal boss, the Fifth Kalpa is very tame in comparison. The first three floors is straightforward and has a lot of low- and mid-level enemies that will give you no problems, and the fourth floor only needs you to have a good combination of demons with the right stats to fully navigate. More than that, you get the opportunity to recruit both Dante/Raidou and the super Pixie, both of whom are incredibly powerful and likely of significantly higher levels than you (and the latter can trivialize the cursed room on the second floor, and the fourth floor's entire gimmick if carried over to a NewGamePlus playthrough).
26	** Depending on the order you do them, the Black Temple of the Amala Temple comes as this, due to lacking the TrialAndErrorGameplay of the White and Red Temples. Instead of navigating a complex maze of teleporters or avoiding invisible traps, you just have to cast Lightoma to dispel the Temple's BlackoutBasement status and jump from a hole on the upper floor to open a way to the basement.
27	* BrokenBase:
28	** Hard vs Normal, and which to recommend to new players. Supporters of Hard claim that it's [[NintendoHard the true way to experience the game]], supporters of Normal claim several of Hard's mechanics (most infamously, shop/compendium prices being tripled and being unable to run from any random encounter without Trafuri) are FakeDifficulty and FakeLongevity at best. Debates can become quite heated.
29	** Dante vs Raidou. There are numerous debates between players over which character they prefer more, and which fits the game better. With the HD Remaster, it seems that Atlus elected to TakeAThirdOption by including both (Raidou being present by default, with DLC that replaces him with Dante).
30	** While many were happy when the ''[[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]]'' was announced, fans are split as to whether or not it's worth the investment. On the one hand, the visual upgrade and addition of voice acting is nice and (after an update) there are a number of quality-of-life features and changes to make the game more newcomer-friendly. On the other hand, the lack of any new content aimed at long-time fans (such as an extra higher difficulty or a new area) and the reported technical issues soured plenty of people. The steep price tag and launch-day dlc ($50 USD for the base game, $70 for the deluxe edition, and that's before the rather messy regional pricing is factored in) were seen as especially galling for a port of a then 17 year old game.[[note]]18 for international players.[[/note]]
31	** Fans can't seem to agree on which ending is better: the True Demon ending or the Freedom ending. People who prefer the former find the opportunity to fight God to [[SignatureScene not only]] [[RuleOfCool be awesome]], but justified and cathartic considering that the Great Will is the one who set up the Conception system in the first place. They also believe that the Freedom ending is worse because simply resetting the world means that the Conception will happen again eventually, which means that the Demi-Fiend accomplished nothing. Those that like the latter ending believe that Freedom feels more in line with a ''Shin Megami Tensei'' story, being the closest to an actual neutral ending (which are usually considered canon anyway) and that going for the True Demon ending means technically serving Lucifer (thus having no true freedom) and that there is no guarantee that the Chaos faction would even win the final battle. Additionally, Demi-Fiend is not {{Depowered}} in the Freedom ending, meaning that he could protect the world every time Kagutsuchi attacks, assuming he lives long enough for its inevitable return.
32	** Related to the above, a debate that surfaced in the years following the game's release is whether the original or Maniax re-release portrayed the story better. As seen in VindicatedByHistory below, many fans begun to view the Reasons as a breath of fresh air compared to the typical BothOrderAndChaosAreDangerous plots of the franchise, or at least a solid ''attempt'' at doing something original, and feel that Maniax's new content adding a traditional Chaos ending [[StoryBranchFavoritism that the game heavily favors]] wastes that uniqueness. They also argue that Lucifer's reveals about the nature of the Vortex World contradict the original game's lore, or invalidate it all via TooBleakStoppedCaring. Others, as above, view the True Demon Ending as the game's SignatureScene, point to Lucifer's presence as a SinkOrSwimMentor even in the original story, and that the new ending heavily influenced the Demi-Fiend's portrayal in later spinoffs, [[CuttingOffTheBranches making it the likely canon outcome.]]
33	* CheeseStrategy: Due to Aciel's focus on physical attacks, he can be beaten solely by reflecting his attacks. Additionally, after using [[HPTo1 Sol Niger]] he will only ever attack the demon furthest to the right and then work his way in so if that one reflects physical he won't be accomplishing much. Even further, it is in fact possible to beat Aciel without using a single damaging move and simply reflecting his attacks to make Aciel kill himself, as seen [[https://youtu.be/JmudynmUDxI here]].
34	* CommonKnowledge:
35	** "Hijiri is [[spoiler:Aleph from ''Shin Megami Tensei II'']]" is often treated as canonical fact, but this is never directly confirmed within or outside ''Nocturne''. All we know officially is the details of his FateWorseThanDeath given within the game.
36	** Some fans advise new players to never touch the Labyrinth of Amala unless you're going for the True Demon Ending. What actually locks you into TDE is using the elevator at the very end of the Labyrinth. You're free to complete as much of it as you want, recruit Dante, and even defeat ''all'' of its bosses, without doing this.
37	** The music track that plays during a number of scripted battle sequences with the iconic "One more god rejected!" line is often referred to as "Fierce Battle" by fans. This is actually a mistranslation; the actual title of the song, "Kyōsei sentō", translates to "Forced Battle", the name used by the [[https://www.game-ost.ru/albums/15740/shin_megami_tensei_nocturne_original_soundtrack/ limited Western release]] of the album. In addition, "One more god rejected" is a mishearing of the actual line, "War broke out in heaven".
38	** Dante being useless during the battle against [[TrueFinalBoss Lucifer]] is a common misconception that stems from how the player needs to have Pierce on themselves and their demons to deal reasonable damage to Lucifer. Dante cannot pierce enemies (until the [[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]] updated his Son's Oath to bypass resistances, immunities, and absorption of his attacks.), ensuring that his attacks would deal reduced damage due to Lucifer's unique gimmick of taking reduced damage from non-pierce attacks, despite how Dante's Rebellion is useful due to it's high critical rate ensuring that you'll be able to gain additional press turns during the fight.
39	** The release of the ''HD Remaster'' led to a belief that Raidou was present in the original Japanese release of the game and Dante was his replacement in a case of DolledUpInstallment in the international version as a marketing strategy. This is the opposite of the truth; the original Japanese release contained neither. Dante was added as part of the UpdatedRerelease which was the one version released outside of Japan, while Raidou replaced Dante as part of a special third version made to celebrate the release of his second game.
40	* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
41	** Virtually everyone seeking the True Demon Ending will outfit the Demi-Fiend with a physical build by the end of the game due to Pierce, necessary to defeating the TrueFinalBoss within a reasonable timeframe, only affecting physical skills.
42	** Physical attackers in general are almost surely saddled with Focus, a very cheap spell that multiplies the damage of their next physical attack by 2.5.
43	** Daisoujou is a very popular demon due to him not only learning Prayer (a full-heal and status-restoring spell) at a relatively early level, but also innately possessing an MP-draining spell that makes sure that he never runs out of MP, on top of being immune to pretty much every single status ailment in the game. It’s not uncommon to see him in videos even at the late or endgame due to him being so good that even other demons’ slower level gain puts him above just about any other support demon. The only obstacle to getting him is [[DefeatMeansPlayable defeating him first]].
44	* CompleteMonster: [[TheSocialDarwinist Gozu-Tennoh]] is the leader of the Mantra Army, an iron-fisted kraterocracy of demons that rule over Ikebukuro in the [[AfterTheEnd Vortex World]]. Waging war against the Assembly of Nihilo, many "enemies" of his regime are made to prove their innocence by fighting to the death in GladiatorGames. Gozu-Tennoh is known for capturing Manikins and forcing them into slave labor or using them as a disposable source of LifeEnergy, even having an entire prison filled with Manikins to slowly drain them of life. Willingly merging with Chiaki Hayasaka, Gozu-Tennoh enables her to launch a genocidal campaign against the Manikin race and create the [[DystopiaJustifiesTheMeans Reason of Yosuga]], an ideology that, if implemented by Kagutsuchi, would reshape the world into a giant slaughterhouse where people kill each other on a daily basis and those deemed too weak to survive are purged en masse.
45	* CrazyIsCool: Matador and Hell Biker, both personifications of death that are a [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin matador and a motorcyclist]] respectively.
46	* DracoInLeatherPants: Lucifer and the True Demon Demi-Fiend get this a lot. Sure, fighting in the name of free will and stopping the Conception from ever happening again is noble, but you have to remember that you do this by ''destroying Kagutsuchi, the light of creation''. Not only the universe you were born from is now destroyed without any chance of restoration, you potentially doomed billions of universes, ''more lives than the human mind can count'', to slowly ''die out'' as Kagutsuchi will never rise again to allow them to be reborn. Just to reinforce the idea, Kagutsuchi isn't just dark during the fight with Lucifer; it's ''cracked'' in half. Instead of a phase counter, it's just listed as "Dead". Congratulations, you just [[WhatTheHellPlayer permanently destroyed all light and hope for God knows how many]]. [[SarcasmMode We're sure getting Pierce was worth it]].
47	* EnsembleDarkhorse: Matador, with a bit of overlap with ColbertBump. Prior to the game's Maniax update, Matador was simply a fiend that [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin looks like a skeleton dressed as a matador that is ready for a bullfight]]. Cue his jarring WakeUpCallBoss battle and now Matador has become a symbol for the franchise of "Never, EVER think buffs/debuffs are pointless. Always invest in them. They ''will'' save your ass from being pounded flat."
48	* FanNickname: The phenomenon of Mot spamming Beast Eye to give itself a ludicrous number of turns and then using Megidolaon repeatedly to nuke the player's party senseless is known by Japanese players as "Mot's Drama".
49	* FashionVictimVillain: Hikawa's got an amazing pajama-esque suit and M-shaped widow's peak.
50	* FountainOfMemes: For someone who only shows up for a single boss fight outside of fusion, Matador has a surprising amount of memes:
51	** "I challenge you to a duel!" Despite the fact that there's more to the sentence, this is all that shows up in the one textbox, but with a comma replacing the exclamation point. Pictures of Matador saying this is a fandom joke of things getting serious.
52	** "I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!" A rather spectacular PreAssKickingOneLiner that is one of the last lines before the fight properly begins.
53	** Red Capote - One of his unique skills and the skill that defines the fight, which maxes out Matador's hit/evasion rate. As this was the first mainline game to be released in the West and the first game to use the Press Turn system, Matador is widely considered to be ''the'' boss for teaching players how to properly use buffs and debuffs thanks to this skill.
54	** As a sub-meme of the above, variants of "Get the buffs ready" or "use buffs idiot" are dispensed as advice for the SMT series as a whole (sincere or otherwise), especially if Matador has been mentioned.
55	** "Where do I find Matador?" Upon the PC release of the [[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]] (which bundled every version of the game together), many newcomers unwittingly picked the original version of the game which, among other things, lacked the fiend battles. Cue confusion when this infamously difficult boss was nowhere to be seen.
56	* FridgeBrilliance
57	** During the Third Kalpa of the Labyrinth of Amala while Dante is in there, the place is noticeably devoid of demons to face. One might put it to DevelopersForesight so as you wouldn't be distracted when fighting against Dante, but think about it: '''[[DemonSlaying Dante]]''' has been all over those floors of the Third Kalpa! It makes sense as to why there's no demons lurking there, he killed them already! Which is quite a feat given the hordes you face in game. Naturally, once Dante leaves after you defeat him, the demons are suddenly back in those floors.
58	** The Freedom Ending is a bit odd in that it's said multiple times in the game that a Demon cannot conceive a Reason and thus cannot play a part in making a new world. You either have to side with one of the Reason holders, choose to keep the Vortex World active, or destroy it altogether. However, this is only in the terms of a "new" world. [[ExactWords You can still try forcing Kagutsuchi to bring back the "old" world]].
59	* GameBreaker: See [[GameBreaker/ShinMegamiTensei the main page]] for details.
60	* GeniusBonus: Dante's appearance as a GuestFighter was made with a lot of love and care for the ''Devil May Cry'' series. Not only are all his skills references to moves or game mechanics, but even his ''animations'' resemble some of his combos from his home game.
61	* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: In Japan, it was apparently derided for being very different from previous main series games. In Western territories, however, it's the mainline ''Shin Megami Tensei'' equivalent to ''Final Fantasy VII'' in that it defined the fandom, and it's fondly remembered for being the Trojan Horse that initially brought in fans of the mainline, non-''Persona'' entries from Western territories.
62	* GoddamnedBats: Aeros in the first visit to the Amala Network. Appearing early in the game before the player has access to decent fusions and Demons, it has no weaknesses, resists all magic, can heal itself and has Marin Karin. Large groups of these are very tedious to fight.
63	* GoddamnedBoss:
64	** If you come prepared and don't have Focus, Pierce, and Freikugel, Noah. [[BarrierChangeBoss Aurora]] causes the fight to drag on longer than it has to. If you're unprepared or don't know the pattern of his weaknesses, he delves into ThatOneBoss territory.
65	** If you challenge Matador with a party of demons that are immune to Force, you still have to contend with him using Red Capote to raise his evasion more quickly than you can lower it. As a result, he's unlikely to do much damage to you, but is difficult to damage himself.
66	** Ongyo-ki is tedious no matter which way you fight him. If you go in outside of a Full Kagutsuchi, you have to guess which of his replicas is the real one, and hitting a fake removes ''all'' your Press Turns instead of the typical two for a nulled attack, making the fight a LuckBasedMission. During Full Kagutsuchi, you can tell which is real due to the shadow, and hitting it will cause Ongyo-ki to spend his turn using Dragon Eye, casting all 3 buffs on himself, then using Replicate again. Keep this loop up and he'll never attack you, but slowly whittling down his health while sitting through this routine every turn gets boring fast.
67	** White Rider isn't the most difficult of the Fiends, but once you unlock his battle by reaching the end of the Second Kalpa, he'll ambush you outside most fast travel save points until you beat him. Because of this, most players put off unlocking the Rider fights until the higher levels.
68	** Samael's damage output isn't threatening, especially as he has no way to dispel Rakukaja and Sukukaja, but he has no weaknesses, has Retaliate to randomly counter physical attacks, and will frequently use Beat Eye to cast 2 Rakukajas on himself. And then there's God's Curse, a party-targeting attack that randomly inflicts charm, panic, sleep, bind or stun. All of these effects waste turns in some way, and no Magatama will make the Demi Fiend immune to ''all'' of them, so you'll probably suffer a few no matter what. And if you bring a Demon with healing, they might heal Samael if they're not immune to Mind. This boss can be skipped, but doing so [[spoiler:locks you out of every ending except Shijima and True Demon.]]
69	* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments:
70	** If you keep your Pixie that you had from the very beginning of the game and take her all the way to the Fifth Kalpa of [[BrutalBonusLevel the Amala Dungeon]], your loyalty will be rewarded with a level 80 Pixie with extremely high stats and knows high-tier skills like Maziodyne, Samarecarm and Megidolaon.
71	** The Freedom Route for the most part. The Demi-fiend ''was'' [[WasOnceAMan originally human in the first place]] living a normal life until the Conception came, and suddenly he's tasked with changing the world by the forces above him while his friends go crazy. Going in this route implies he has no desire of changing it, would rather have his old world and his friends back the way they were despite their flaws, and thus decides to undo everything that transpired. And it works in the end. [[spoiler:Everything is returned to him at once without any catches, and Yuko thanks him for restoring the world while deciding to live for real. And in case the Conception happens again, the Demi-Fiend is implied to retain some residual power should the time come.]]
72	* HilariousInHindsight:
73	** ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter 4 Ultimate'' also features Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series.[[note]]Though it's just Palico armor themed after him as part of a monthly DLC campaign.[[/note]]
74	** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2'', as part of a cross promotion between that game and ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry5''.
75	** Fiend Trumpeter became a bit of a retroactive EnsembleDarkhorse thanks to the "Mr. Skeltal" meme of a skeleton playing a trumpet.
76	** When the reveal for the ''HD Remaster'' showed Raidou, many made jokes on how the Dante meme would no longer be applicable. It would later be revealed that Dante was coming back via paid DLC, rendering it all moot.
77	** Regarding both the ''DMC'' and ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'' memes, all three franchises would eventually get representation in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosUltimate'' (''VideoGame/Persona5'' 's Joker and ''KH'' 's Sora as playable characters, Dante as a Mii Fighter costume).
78	* ItsEasySoItSucks: The Merciful difficulty added in the HD remaster has garnered the reception that it goes way too far in trying to make the game more approachable for new players.
79	* ItsHardSoItSucks: To some, the various {{Scrappy Mechanic}}s that increase difficulty, especially some of those that are unique to Hard mode, end up making the game more frustrating rather than challenging.
80	* LesYay: Fun fact, having a female demon use Seduce (high chance of recruiting male demons when used by a female demon) or wooing (high chance of recruiting female demons when used by a male demon) has a normal outcome like a regular conversation skill, while a male demon using either on another male disgusts the target and results in a guaranteed fail. One would imagine that female demons are a bit more comfortable about being hit on by someone of the same sex than male demons.
81	* MagnificentBastard: Lucifer orchestrates events to ensure the PlayerCharacter becomes the commander of his demon army. Turning him into a Demifiend after the Conception, Lucifer manipulates the protagonist into investigating the Amala Labyrinth, hoping to make him fight other powerful Friends to test his strength before sending a feared demon hunter after them. If the Demifiend chooses to break the cycle of the Conception, Lucifer congratulates him, before testing his power in a personal battle. When the Demifiend survives the fight, Lucifer graciously accepts him as the commander of his demon army and rejoices at the thought of beginning the war with what he calls the "Real Enemy". Ever gracious, if the Demifiend chooses any other route than breaking the cycle, Lucifer discretely steps aside and leaves the story, out of respect for his freewill. Manipulative to the core yet gracious and stylish, Lucifer proves himself to be one of the franchise's most dangerous and intelligent plotters.
82	* MainstreamObscurity: While ''Nocturne'' helped usher ''Megaten'' into western audiences alongside ''VideoGame/Persona3'', it didn't end up becoming a CashCowFranchise thanks to ''Persona'' becoming the MorePopularSpinoff with the further releases of ''Persona 4'' and ''5''. Instead, the three things people know about the game are the Demi-Fiend's somewhat iconic design, that there is a song that yells "One More God Rejected!" [-(which isn't the actual line, but that's not the point)-], and that it features Dante from ''Devil May Cry''. While ''Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry'' transcended into a legendary meme amongst gamers and shitposters, enough time has passed for many using the meme to forget what game Dante was even featured in. The HD remaster however did recall attention to the game when it was streamed in front of a mass audience during a Nintendo Mini Direct.
83	* MemeticBadass:
84	** If Matador challenges you to a duel, get your buffs ready because he is dead serious.
85	** Mot only spams Beast Eye on rare occasions, yet it's generally the first thing to come up when talking about the boss fight with him.
86	** The Demi-fiend himself. His actions on the True Demon route and in ''Digital Devil Saga'' has amazed enough of the fanbase that, whenever questions of who the strongest SMT protagonist is come up, his only competition is [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Aleph]]. Considering that the Demi-Fiend can become [[spoiler: TheAntiChrist in the True Demon Ending]] while Aleph is [[spoiler: a CloneJesus]] and seems to lean law in his appearance in ''IV Apocalypse'', it takes OrderVersusChaos to a new level. He's such a badass that he has been the {{superboss}} for two separate games, something very few if any other characters in Megaten games can claim.
87	* MemeticMutation: Other than the numerous memes spawned from Matador, we have these:
88	** "Featuring Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series!" is often used in photoshops of game covers in order to mock the European cover's blatant attempt at cashing in WolverinePublicity. This one [[AscendedMeme came full circle]] when the Demi-Fiend was announced to be the star of a DLC expansion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV.'' Atlus' Twitter account wasted no time [[https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1451026941209759752?s=20 flipping the meme on its head]].
89	** "[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJrEwEMIpM Vote Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne]]"[[note]]Series/XPlay, in the buildup for their 2004 award show, made a commercial that portrayed ''Nocturne'', which would take the award for Best RPG, as a political challenger against an incumbent ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII''. The sheer absurdity of an old couple talking about a pair of video games like politicians caught on, and even ''Atlus themselves'' left a comment asking, "What in the damn hell is this?"[[/note]]
90	*** "''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'' has screwed us again!"[[note]]Also from the above instance and is frequently quoted when the FandomRivalry between ''Nocturne'' and ''Kingdom Hearts II'' is brought up.[[/note]]
91	*** "Where was ''Kingdom Hearts II'' during Hurricane Katrina?"
92	*** "''Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne'' would never take advantage of our innate gullibility."
93	** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM Mot's Drama]], which refers to whenever Mot spams Beast Eye and pairs it with enough Makakajas and Megidolaons to wipe you out in one turn. Became an AscendedMeme in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'', where one of the regular enemies in a DLC BonusDungeon is a Mot with Guardian's Eye, Makakaja, and Antichthon.
94	** "One more god rejected", a misquoted line from the Forced Battle theme which often shows up when talking about the game, frequently as a form of BadassBoast.
95	** Especially on Website/{{Reddit}}, replying "cturne" to people saying "no".
96	** With the ''HD Remaster'' being based on the ''Chronicle Edition'', [[VideoGame/RaidouKuzunohaVsTheSoullessArmy Raidou Kuzunoha]] replacing Dante has drawn several jokes about [[https://twitter.com/ErickDot7/status/1285223286473990144 Dante finding out he was replaced]]. Someone even made a [[https://twitter.com/UltimaShadowX/status/1285239834202841089 "Featuring Raidou from the Shin Megami Tensei series" edit.]]
97	** When the ''HD Remaster'' was announced, fans of this game made memes on how newer players would be stuck in the notorious [[https://twitter.com/ACheekyKoala/status/1285219851875876867 Matador]] and [[https://twitter.com/TecFuzz/status/1285234456463323136 Mot]] boss fights.
98	** Chiaki's [[https://imgur.com/gallery/ew6AlN3 very denim-heavy outfit]] has also been part of a minor meme.
99	* MoralEventHorizon: See [[MoralEventHorizon/ShinMegamiTensei here]].
100	* SugarWiki/MostWonderfulSound: The sound of the Demi-fiends punches hitting their target is beautifully satisfying.
101	* {{Narm}}:
102	** Listen to Daisoujou when he uses a physical attack. White Rider using God's Bow is also pretty Narmy.
103	** Whenever Trumpeter speaks.
104	** Every time Black Rider uses a spell. "(click click click) Heeeeee!"
105	** Mother Harlot has a rather terrifying introduction, culminating in a JumpScare when she turns around and reveals her SkullForAHead... and then she goes ''clack clack clack'' with her teeth in a pretty ridiculous fashion.
106	** Whenever Shiva does anything. Idle animation: dancing and jerking around like a mannequin on crack. Launching a spell: twitters like an angry bird. Doing a physical attack: "WHEEEEEEUUUU!"
107	** He's less ridiculous than Shiva, but Vishnu's [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything weird moan]] whenever he casts a spell is pretty darn Narmy itself.
108	** Lachesis, in the original version, vocalizes a [[DullSurprise bored-sounding "eh"]] whenever she casts a spell.
109	** [[SerialKiller Sakahagi]] summoning [[CruelElephant Girimekhala]], a giant, one-eyed elephant, is pretty ominous. Then Girimekhala blinks, which makes a cartoony sound effect like a chick chirping.
110	* NewerThanTheyThink:
111	** The Fiends have existed since ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI'', and are usually represented by the ''Revelation'' Fiends (the Riders, Mother Harlot, and Trumpeter). They actually didn't debut until this game, with the Super Famicom games using a more varied roster that included the first three non-cameo Fiends in this game. The exception is Pale Rider, who was one of the original three Fiends along with Daisoujou, the second Fiend in this game, and David. The roster for every future game would follow this game's, with the six ''Revelation'' Fiends accompanied by three or four others.
112	** While it's relatively common knowledge among [=MegaTen=] fans that the version of ''Nocturne'' released overseas (the "Maniax" version) added [[Characters/DevilMayCryDante Dante]] [[MemeticMutation from the]] ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series, it's less widely known that said version also added in the iconic [[{{Superboss}} fiend battles]], the [[BrutalBonusLevel Labyrinth of Amala]], and the True Demon Ending. This actually proved to be a problem when the PC release of ''[[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]]'' bundled every version of the game together and made the original version the default one (many newcomers simply picked "New Game" at the start without realizing this option lacked said content).
113	* NintendoHard: Normal difficulty can be punishing but is reasonable once you get accustomed to the battle system. Hard difficulty pushes things into nearly-unfair territory; in this difficulty you can ''die during the tutorial fight''.
114	** As if to press home the point, the game describes its "Hard" difficulty setting as "A level of difficulty suitable for one seeking the thrill of death".
115	** Expect later dungeons to have fiendish level design between one-way doors, teleporter mazes, damage tiles and pitfalls. [[https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0KJ3d_-d5Tw/Vy54J2hWdbI/AAAAAAAAAIs/xgPhjQMq2mobSD65C-b5jIdpBwtD0MurwCKgB/s1600/HOLYSHITDUNGEONSOFMADNESS.png Here's an apt summary of how bad it can get]].
116	** One of the things that makes this game difficult is the lack of AntiFrustrationFeatures. When you learn a skill by leveling up, that is your one and only chance to use that skill--you can't "store" them for later and there's no going back if you erase something you're currently equipped with. Later games in the franchise would be softer on this--particularly ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga''-- but here, you're expected to plan out your character progression well in advance.
117	* NoSuchThingAsBadPublicity: A minor example, but you'll notice that one of the review blurbs on the back of the English release (the one that calls it the "RPG for the ''[[VideoGame/GrandTheftAuto GTA]]'' generation") mentions that "if anyone pays attention to its content, it might cause a little controversy". That seems quite like something one would [[QuoteMine cut out to avoid bad press]].
118	* OnceOriginalNowCommon: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnetite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways). However, later games added even more improvements, such as the ability to save anywhere, respawn after dying, check buff/debuff levels, or look at demons' resistances without wasting a turn using an EnemyScan spell, whose absence attracted some criticism when the HD Remaster came out. Playing the game after playing any game released after it can result in a lot of frustration at the more dated mechanics to the point of making it seem overrated, even with the remaster bringing some improvements.
119	* ParanoiaFuel:
120	** The Third Kalpa chase with Dante/Raidou can be insanely nerve-wracking, as not only can they run as fast as the Demi-fiend, but they will occasionally shoot at him to slow him down. If the Demi-fiend gets caught by them, they will perform a move that has a high chance of instantly killing either Demi-fiend or one of his demons and then either flee or lock the player in an unescapable fight. Even worse is if you hear their boss theme playing, but have ''no idea where they are''.
121	** The Fiends. They are all avatars of death that can come after you in what can often feel like the most random times and places, and often inconveniently far from a Terminal. The White Rider in particular will deliberately attack you in front of ''any'' large Terminal, meaning he won't even let you save beforehand!
122	* PortingDisaster:
123	** The PAL port of the game has numerous freezing glitches when played at 50hz. The solution is to play it at 60hz, but even then it can freeze during [[spoiler:the True Demon Ending]].
124	** The ''HD Remaster'' suffers from frequent and severe framerate drops despite framerate being locked at 30 across all versions, long load times, and lightning and animation glitches as well as a small but general "sluggishness" to the game[[note]]This seems to be a result of actions taking just that little bit of extra time to load making things feel ever so slightly slower than before[[/note]]. The PC version meanwhile has its own problems with crashes or just refusing to start, in addition to only offering 3 options of rendering resolution[[note]]Low (360p), Medium (720p) and High (1080p)[[/note]], as opposed to simply rendering at the window or screen size.
125	* SacredCow: Criticizing anything about this game around die-hard SMT fans tends to end badly.
126	* ScrappyMechanic:
127	** Every time you save at a Terminal, you have to watch an unskippable animation. Given this is a game where [[NintendoHard you want to save as often as possible]], this can quickly get grating. The fast travel animation ''is'' skippable, so it's strange the save animation isn't.
128	** White Rider's spawn point is in front of every major Terminal after reaching Asakusa and completing the Second Kalpa.[[note]]There are only three major Terminals where White Rider does not spawn in front of: the Terminal in the Shinjuku Medical Center, the Terminal in Mifunashiro (the Manikin holy ground), and the Terminal inside the [[BrutalBonusLevel Labyrinth of Amala]].[[/note]] Pray that you'll be able to escape or beat him in one go...
129	** Beast Eye/Dragon Eye, or any other move that grants the opponent free press turns. Mostly because it's one of the few things in the game that is blatant that TheComputerIsACheatingBastard, with them using a move that is unavailable to the player, that costs only 1 MP, and sometimes even abusing it to outright win. And worse, depending on the enemy and the moves they use, it can be impossible to counter with demons that can nullify attacks.
130	** "Sorry, but I can't just join you." If you want to recruit a demon, prepare yourself to see this a lot and tear your hair out, since it means the demon will keep all the Macca and items you gave it and leave without joining you. It's completely random, and while certain demon skills can prevent demons from leaving for ''certain'' reasons, it's not guaranteed.
131	** When you learn a skill from a Magatama, you ''must'' either take the skill, or give up on learning it [[PermanentlyMissableContent forever]]. This can be problematic for blind playthroughs, especially if you give up a skill early and end up wanting it later, or you need to equip a Magatama for its stats or resistances but don't want to lose its next skill. You can only view the next skill a Magatama learns, so you might not realize one has a skill you want later if its initial skill doesn't look appealing.
132	** While exacerbated by starting the game on Hard Mode, [[http://www.baka-raptor.com/2012/10/01/the-end-day-shin-megami-tensei-nocturne/ this page]] has a comprehensive list.
133	* SelfImposedChallenge: With the game's challenge not being enough for some people, fans have gone out of their way to create a Hardtype mod for the truly masochistic players. It both adds some new content and re-balances fights to really racket up challenge.
134	** [[{{WebVideo/Nyarly}} One brave soul]] proved that it's actually possible (albeit extremely difficult and time-consuming) to finish the entire game [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OWCgoEaniw without using any buff or debuff skills]].
135	** A Youtuber named Jim Reaper has managed to get through the entire game [[LowLevelRun without gaining any experience points from random encounters]], going on to [[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_rjvbjaKsV3JWaOkf8r_XvBjFrEWzGS3 layer more conditions on top of the run]] (such as playing on Hard mode and not using Fiends). He has even done the same for said Hardtype mod.
136	* {{Shipping}}: There's quite a lot of Pixie/Demi-Fiend art. She's the first demon to join him, she's friendly, and she can stay by his side the entire game if you let her.
137	* SignatureScene:
138	** The boss fight with Matador, known by fans everywhere as the [[WakeUpCallBoss "buff and debuff, or die horribly" boss]].
139	** [[spoiler:The very last shot of the True Demon Ending, where the Demi-Fiend begins to march forward in the darkness, leading the LegionsOfHell into battle against God]]. Fittingly, it's used as the title screen.
140	** The CG of the world being destroyed and its remains twisting into the Vortex, followed by a Magatama forcibly shoved into your eye in first-person view, not an hour in. This drives home the bleak atmosphere of the game that sets itself apart even from other ''Shin Megami Tensei'' titles. Here, there's not even a world of humanity left to struggle for survival, your friends and teacher are gone, the remaining humans can be counted on one hand, and you're now a demon on your own. Good luck.
141	** The HD Remaster (with its updated translation and addition of voice acting) made the scene with Mara particularly memorable due to the [[HurricaneOfPuns flurry of inappropriate jokes]]. It's often held up as the best thing about the remaster.
142	* SoBadItWasBetter: Many players were upset at the HD Remaster fixing Mot's AI so he no longer spams Beast Eye, as it, while ridiculously unfair, turned an otherwise unremarkable mid-boss into one of the most memorable fights in the original game. In a game already NintendoHard, most players considered his original behavior the difficulty equivalent of ActuallyPrettyFunny.
143	* SpecialEffectsFailure: The Demon ending for the HD Remaster has [[https://twitter.com/MegaTenStruggle/status/1576862414955421696?s=20&t=oFgV1mDNHAnxdrR3Wx8J0A no real effort put into it]], looking like a sketch rather than something that belongs in a video game released on shelves, especially compared to the original version.
144	* ThatOneAchievement: "The Depths of Damnation" and "Master of Misfortune" essentially mandate a large amount of LevelGrinding -- the former involves maxing out all of the Demi-fiend's base stats, while the latter involves mastering all Magatama. You'll need to grind to level 191 and 115 at minimum for these respectively, when you can beat the game near level 80. The former can be shortcut with use of Incense, though this also needs lucking out with the Lucky Ticket raffles at the shops to get the right Incense, too.
145	* ThatOneAttack:
146	** Beast Eye and Dragon Eye. After consuming the turn, the enemy gains two or four half Press Turns, respectively. This leads to the enemies (generally bosses, too) proceeding to attack you up to five times in a row. Daisoujou and Hell Biker also have Startle and Hell Throttle, respectively, that are the same but give three Turns.
147	** Matador's Red Capote will automatically max out his hit/evasion rate and is one of the main reasons he's the game's WakeUpCallBoss.
148	** Aciel loves to use Sol Niger, a guaranteed HPToOne for your party. Since he's got two Press Turns, he'll use the other one to attack right afterwards, instantly killing anyone he targets. Bear in mind that at this point, nothing barring rare Attack Mirrors or the expensive Tetrakarn can make the Demi-fiend immune to phys.
149	** Trumpeter's Holy Melody and Evil Melody. The former fully heals whoever has the lowest percentage of HP, while the latter would kill him. While when he uses it is predictable, it's also unavoidable. In addition, while Holy Melody can fully heal Trumpeter to effectively reset the fight, Evil Melody will never target him.
150	** Bael's Bane from Baal Avatar is a Curse-type skill that can turn a party member into a fly, dramatically reducing their stats and rendering them weak to Expel. There is no cure other than dying and being revived. If this attack hits the Demi-fiend, he's screwed, and you wouldn't think to impart Null Curse onto him unless planning far in advance.
151	** Root of Evil from Lucifer is a RandomEffectSpell where three (out of six) possible outcomes turn it into a PercentDamageAttack, taking away 50%, 70%, or 90% of any one party member's current HP; the remaining three can inflict random ailments. He's also likely to follow up with an unblockable attack afterwards that can kill that party member right away. If you're fighting him on the Chronicle version of the Remaster, Root of Evil is also guaranteed to erase your buffs as well, so you'll have to spend more time building them back up or fall into a downward spiral you can't recover easily from.
152	** Lucifer's deadliest attack is, [[BoringButPractical of all things]], his ''normal attack''. It's unavoidable, is almighty affinity so you can't negate it, and has an abnormally high critical rate. If the AIRoulette rolls unfavorably against you he can land many critical hits in a row to pummel a party member of his choice into the ground, especially while you're just recovering from his previous slew of attacks.
153	* ThatOneBoss:
154	** '''[[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]]'''. Even if you go into the fight knowing to counter his maxed out hit/evasion rate, he's [[GoddamnedBoss still a pain in the ass]] -- not only is he the only one of the [[SuperBoss Fiends]] that ''must'' be fought, but he ambushes you ''before you even have the Demon Compendium''! Because he's encountered so early in the game, the player simply doesn't have access to any strategies to make the fight simple; you either develop a solid understanding of the battle mechanics, or you're not going anywhere.
155	** Mot is a good demonstration of how ''not'' to design a boss fight. Bosses with [[ExtraTurn Beast/Dragon's Eye]] are typically restricted by an AI script to keep things ''somewhat'' fair, but Mot is an exception; not only is Mot's Beast Eye ''not'' scripted and can be used whenever he wants, he also has access to Makakaja and ''Megidolaon'', also not scripted. It's not unusual for Mot's AIRoulette to say "you're not allowed to play the game" and repeatedly chain Beast Eye and Megidolaon to just ''end'' your party before you even get a turn. As if that wasn't bad enough, he takes 90% less damage from physical attacks, voids Fire, drains Ice and repels Force, so Electricity (which, admittedly, he is weak against) is your only viable means of damaging him.
156	** Dante (and Raidou, [[DolledUpInstallment for that matter]]) have a very well-rounded skill set, between a personal [[AntiDebuff Dekunda]] to erase your debuffs, Provoke to lower your defenses, a party-wide unavoidable physical attack, and a single-target physical attack with a very high crit rate. They also have no weaknesses, ContractualBossImmunity, and resist all damage. In the rematch in the Third Kalpa they bust out their entire arsenal, pulling out their own versions of Maziodyne and Mazandyne, an ''almighty'' physical attack that can instakill, and a party-wide almighty attack. There's no easy way to perfectly defend against them.
157	* ThatOneLevel:
158	** The first visit to the Amala Network can be a stumbling block for new players, even by the game's usual NintendoHard standards. For one, it's an unexpected dungeon with vague warnings it's coming that only make sense in hindsight, and once you're inside you can't leave to fuse or recruit more Demons until you finish it. The enemies are mostly Elements, which can't be recruited, and include the Aeros mention under GoddamnedBats. Its boss, Specter, can also be a problem, as it's the first boss with no weaknesses and demands dealing a lot of damage quickly to neuter its own damage output. If you went in unprepared, hope you kept a save from outside.
159	** The Labyrinth of Amala is essentially a BrutalBonusLevel. While the Shady Brokers will sell you powerful custom demons, the loot is amazing, and contains cutscenes that flesh out a large chunk of the plot, even the mandatory parts will put you through the wringer ''constantly'' and remind you it's particularly hard to assemble a powerful team capable of resisting continuous assaults (many back attacks, particularly) at the beginning.
160	*** The cursed hallway in the Second Kalpa can be accessed as early as level 30-40, but it is filled with level 65+ demons, all while the hallway halves your HP every few steps and there's no way to prevent it. To get out you have to go back through the hallway, though thankfully there are several shortcuts so you don't have to go the whole circuit. The good news is that you can safely ignore this section until you dispel the curse in the Fourth Kalpa, rendering it mostly safe. However, going through it early and surviving ''will'' net you a massive 250,000 Macca, enough to fund your Compendium fees for almost the rest of the game.
161	*** The upper floor of the Third Kalpa halts your progress with stat check doors, and if you fail to open some of them they will warp you to a different part of the map. You'll need a total of 25 Strength, 25 Magic, and 20 Luck to fully explore the area for its treasure, but the necessary doors for progress don't require such high stats. The lower floors are where Dante or Raidou confront and chase you around, and getting caught gives them a turn to smack your party around before returning you to the start of the floor and resetting any switches you've pushed.
162	*** The Fourth Kalpa disables your mini-map for most of its second floor, and its central spot is a warp that changes destination based on the current Kagutsuchi Phase. Your ultimate goal is to get to Beelzebub, and the room prior to him is pretty large and drains your HP every few steps while random encounters are still active.
163	* ThatOnePuzzle: Near the top of the Obelisk, you have another Kagutsuchi tile puzzle- stepping on tiles advances Kagutsuchi, and certain doors can only be passed if Kagutsuchi is at Full or Half- in which you must reach and defeat all the Moirae Sisters before you can proceed. There is no room for mistakes, and if you abort the puzzle or run out of time(i.e. Kagutsuchi cycles back to New), you will have to start the puzzle over from the beginning and defeat any of the sisters you've already fought. Additionally, you have to defeat the three sisters in a ''specific order'', which is something the game only ''vaguely'' hints at through dialogue with NPC ghosts. (Who a player could've easily ignored) Worse, the sisters flee from battle when they're beaten, since the actual fight with them is at the end of the Obelisk, and give no experience or money.
164	* ThatOneSidequest:
165	** Within the Labyrinth of Amala is another sidequest: the Amala Grave Run, which challenges the player to beat 24 of the main story bosses within a certain amount of Press Turns. Even with endgame stats, these fights are tough to do within the turn limits, but two in particular stand out:
166	*** The Moirae Sisters must be defeated in four Press Turns, which translates to a single full turn. The only way this is feasible is by having an entire party with endgame all-targeting Physical skills such as Hades Blast and Deathbound and hoping they get critical hits, making the fight entirely dependent on RNG.
167	*** While Ahriman and Noah have very generous Press Turn requirements (especially if you have Pierce and Freikugel in Noah's case), Baal Avatar must be defeated in fourteen Press Turns, which translates to a mere three and a half full turns. This is only possible if you kill her before she summons the Hallels, which in turn requires buffing and debuffing - which costs valuable turns - so you can deplete more than half of her HP in one go. This is normally surprisingly easy to pull off, but the strict time limit requires a much stricter balancing act of getting the buffs and debuffs set and dealing enough damage so that you're able to finish her off when you're ready.
168	** Puzzle Boy, a young Manikin that makes you play a minigame of 20 [[UnexpectedGameplayChange increasingly difficult puzzles]] if you want to obtain all the Magatama in the game. He's practically required as the Magatama he gives you teaches the Demi-fiend all the second tier healing abilities, and is necessary if you want a shot at getting the secret [[InfinityPlusOneSword 25th Magatama]]. Hope you're good at complicated block puzzles (or barring that, can slavishly reproduce all the steps in a detailed walkthrough), as you have to complete all 20 levels in one go. This proved so frustrating in fact, that the [[HarderThanHard Hardtype hack]] changes it so you can just buy it in the shop. Yes, even a hack made to ramp up the difficulty thought it was unreasonable.
169	* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: With the HD remaster getting voice acting added, a lot of the demon voice-lines and grunts were changed to a fresh set. Suffice to say, many fans were not impressed with the new ones, feeling that they lack the impact and character of the old ones. Thor, Daisoujou and Metatron are commonly cited as those hit by this the worst.
170	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
171	** Fans of Dante and ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' point out that it would be not in line for him to follow the Demi-Fiend into the [[spoiler: true demon ending]] given his character and that within the game itself he's suspicious of the Old Man's actions and motives that relate to Demi-Fiend. This is largely due to Dante's main role in the story ending by that point, with him just being another party member, with the belief there was a missed opportunity for him to speak up or turn against the Demi-Fiend if he went with [[spoiler: the true demon ending.]]
172	** For Raidou Kuzunoha fans... basically the same as Dante.
173	* ToughActToFollow: This game does an excellent job of making the VideoGame3DLeap, is known for its relentless challenge, has perhaps the widest variety of endings/routes of any game in the series, and is the last game produced by series creator Cozy Okada.[[note]]Last mainline game, Okada was executive producer for ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga'' 1 the next year[[/note]] Subsequent games have difficulty living up to the gold standard that ''Nocturne'' set.
174	* UglyCute: Although we never get a very good look at them in game, the [[http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/b/bf/Magatama-Active.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081001142539 Magatama are pretty cute for parasitic spirit bugs]].
175	* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While it ''is'' revealed that Yuko [[spoiler:was manipulated by Hikawa into being a vessel for siphoning magatsuhi and later a sacrifice]], it doesn't change the fact that she knowingly and willingly helped to initiate the Conception, which ''killed off seven billion people''. Yet the Demi-Fiend still tries to save her, [[spoiler:and her death is treated as a very somber moment]].
176	* VindicatedByHistory:
177	** Might be hard to believe today, but when the game was first released it actually wasn't all that well received from fans with many finding it [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks way too different from past entries]]. The game didn't receive full recognition until the updated Maniax edition, and over time the game got more and more traction until it got the franchise cornerstone status it enjoys today.
178	** The three Reasons were originally viewed as weak, generically evil and not worth caring about, especially since completing the BonusDungeon locks you into rejecting them all anyway. In the years following the game's release, backlash against the overuse and lack of evolution of the classic ''Shin Megami Tensei'' Law and Chaos alignments caused Nocturne's Reasons to be looked on more favorably. While few fans advocate ''siding with'' them, they're appreciated as a breath of fresh air compared to the typical alignments (for example, Yosuga resembles Chaos, but the Angels support it, with the fallen demons supporting the WorldOfSilence faction instead), or at least as a solid attempt at something different, and for their contributions to Nocturne's unique atmosphere.
179	* WoobieSpecies: The Manikins. They are so weak and unable to defend themselves that all demons scornfully look at them as nothing more than easy prey, with the Mantra in particular imprisoning them ''en masse'' as easily exploitable sources of slave labor and Magatsuhi. [[spoiler:Though they are eventually able to make a home for themselves at Asakusa, they are ruthlessly slaughtered by the Yosuga, who come to claim the massive amounts of Magatsuhi in their holy ground for themselves. The worst part is that even if Chiaki didn't kill them, they were doomed regardless. Manikins cannot conceive a Reason, meaning all their efforts to create a new world for themselves were never going to succeed and they were going to all die out no matter what world was made. Manikins seem to only exist to suffer.]]

Context YMMV / ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne