Line #0 YMMV/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws


1	* ArcFatigue:
2	** Jason continues to be hung up on his death and resentful towards the Batfamily, bringing it up in every issue in the ''Rebirth'' series, even during Artemis's DayInTheLimelight. It's even more jarring when compared to books he guest-stars in, where he's portrayed as having undergone progress.
3	** The "Smart Bizarro" arc ran for 12 issues at glacial pacing, to the detriment of Artemis and Jason's plotlines.
4	* AssPull: Wingman's identity being [[spoiler: Willis Todd.]] While there was foreshadowing to him being alive in the issues leading up to the reveal, all of it pointed towards [[spoiler:Solitary]] being his identity, up to his obsession with Red Hood and knowledge about his past. There was absolutely no foreshadowing or explanation as to how he received his training, or why Jason didn't recognize him as his (unmasked) limo driver during his "Prince of Gotham" phase.
5	* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt:
6	** Rocafort's run as penciler for the book, his backgrounds were breath-taking (when he bothered to draw backgrounds).
7	** Dexter Soy has also been praised for his art in the Rebirth revival of the series.
8	* BadassDecay: Prior to the series, Jason was portrayed as a WellIntentionedExtremist who planned ahead and was willing to kill to accomplish what he thought was necessary. In both the ComicBook/New52 and ComicBook/DCRebirth series, Jason merely describes himself as a "bad guy", but actually spends most of his time angsting over having to follow Batman's rules. Somehow getting to this point with no redemption arc or HeelRealization from his previous mass-murdering activities.
9	* BaseBreakingCharacter:
10	** Red Hood. Some don't like the change and preferred his more ruthless characterization from his Pre-Flashpoint days. Others like the change and character development, preferring him separate from the Batman family and having his own adventures, and yet a third group also likes the change but find the writing subpar.
11	** Artemis as well. Many fans are overjoyed that she's given focus after years of being PutOnABus and like her chemistry with Jason, but some Wonder Woman fans hate that Artemis has been relegated to replacing Starfire as the token Ms. Fanservice and as an object of lust for Jason.
12	* BestKnownForTheFanservice: Putting aside the quality of the writing, few would deny that this series offers plenty of this, thanks to the gratuitous shots of [[MsFanservice Starfire]] (and later Artemis), [[MrFanservice Jason and Roy]]. Kenneth Rocafort's tenure in the book in particular.
13	* BrokenBase:
14	** For Volume 1:
15	*** The first issue was highly controversial and caused many fans to judge the series as unlikeable (Jason), shallow and sex-obsessed (Starfire), amongst other terms. Some fans feel that the book has since fixed a few of these preconceptions. Others, however, still find the writing to be subpar.
16	*** Issue 18 gives closure to Jason's issues with Bruce and mends their relationship. Some liked this issue, finding it genuinely heartwarming and one of the better examples of Lobdell's writing. Others find Bruce's EasilyForgiven acceptance of Jason's lethal methods to be a cop-out, and a thinly-veiled excuse to include Jason in more Batfamily events.
17	*** The fact that the pre-Rebirth incarnation of the title and its sequel ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal both deal with Jason becoming a less antagonistic figure and mending fences with the rest of the Batfamily: An interesting, welcome bit of character development that results in several heartwarming moments? A decent concept let down by [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot bad writing and rushed development]]? Or an utter train-wreck that does nothing but make Jason a KarmaHoudini and CreatorsPet?
18	*** There are heated discussions on Twitter regarding Jason's sexuality. Some argue that the character should be bisexual, due to numerous HoYay moments in this and previous Red Hood stories, while others insist having him be bi would be too big a departure from the character. And then there are others who say just having some HoYay moments doesn't equate to actually being attracted to the same-sex, and just consider the HoYay moments as fanservice.
19	** For Volume 2:
20	*** The Annual with Jason and Dick bonding has split a few fandoms. Some enjoyed seeing the brotherly relationship being played out. Some dislike that elements of Tim's backstory (mainly, him seeing the Flying Graysons as a child) were given to Jason. And then there are some who aren't fond of Jason having a positive relationship with any of the Batfamily due to FandomRivalry, especially towards Nightwing.
21	*** Jason's new "Outlaw" outfit, as of issue #25. Many still mourn the loss of the more traditional leather jacket and helmet worn until then, seeing it as an iconic look for the character. As the series progressed, however, the outfit grew on many readers and has established a modest fanbase. The fact that it has become his "main" outfit in later storylines only continues to further divide the base.
22	*** Fans are divided on the direction of the 'Outlaw' arc, between those who like the idea of a DarkerAndEdgier AntiVillain Jason, and those who find that the execution falls flat on its face and doesn't fix any of the problems of the previous runs.
23	* ClicheStorm: Both the New 52 and Rebirth series check off a number of cliches, including a bitter loner with [[WellDoneSonGuy daddy issues]] who eventually learns ThePowerOfFriendship, a {{Stripperific}} [[AmazonianBeauty warrior woman]] who is often drawn for MaleGaze, villains who frequently [[BondVillainStupidity monologue about their motivations during the climax]], and numerous TheChosenOne references.
24	* DesignatedHero: Many readers felt that the series' portrayals of Jason, Roy, and Kori did not come across as heroic in any shape or form. Then again, they never identified themselves as heroes.
25	* DieForOurShip: Isabel returning was not accepted by fans of Jason/Artemis, Jason/Starfire, or any other ships.
26	* EnsembleDarkHorse:
27	** Lobdell's take on Killer Croc has become quite popular among fans by giving him a rarely seen depth.
28	** Cloud 9 is the most liked of all the metahumans Jason teaches for her cool design and plucky attitude.
29	* FanPreferredCouple:
30	** Jason/Roy is a major ship, partly thanks to several HoYay moments between the two and partly due to the case of PlatonicWritingRomanticReading of Roy and Kori, although it become a bit of a BrokenBase situation since fans of Roy as well as Dick/Roy shippers see the ship as supporting a version of Roy that doesn't resemble his Pre-Flashpoint version.
31	** As of ''Rebirth'', Jason and Isabel still have a FriendsWithBenefits relationship in canon, yet Jason/Artemis has quickly become the fan favorite, with Bizarro being their adopted son type. While they did have some ship tease in canon, it was ultimately sunk when they agree to be JustFriends.
32	* FanonDiscontinuity:
33	** The issue 0 revealing that the Joker basically orchestrated Jason's becoming Robin and his death (as in even Jason finding his mom). Suffice to say, many don't like it, since the Joker comes off as a Villain Sue, and out of character, and outright ignore it. As of ComicBook/DCRebirth, it is no longer canon.
34	** Arsenal's new backstory of being a snotty child prodigy with a neglectful alcoholic dad was hated by his fans, to the point they do not want the character to associate with the ''Outlaws'' or Jason Todd in the future. Perception has been that Roy was downgraded into a SatelliteCharacter who seemed to only exist to boost his supposed "best friend" Red Hood while he was written as a pathetic {{Manchild}} with next to none of the depth, charisma, and rugged compassion he had pre-Flashpoint. It's gotten so bad that fans on twitter lost their shit over a single ''panel'' released for ''ComicBook/DarkCrisis'' which showed Jason telling Roy he would help him find Roy's daughter Lian.
35	** Jason's interactions with the Batfamily are often ignored by most Batman fans, due to how out-of-character the others seem. Notably, this even applies to many fans that like Jason who feel that while the idea behind the series was promising, the execution was poorly handled, rushed, and relied on telling instead of showing.
36	** Not long after leaving the Outlaws, Starfire received an [[ComicBook/Starfire2015 ongoing]] that allows for fans to ignore her history with the boys.
37	* FetishRetardant: Some of the ''impossible'' poses that Starfire pulled off during her tenure on the team. They were meant to be sexy, but to many readers, they looped back around to being hilarious.
38	* MemeticMutation:
39	** The various impossible and/or "sexy" poses Star does in the first issue are often parodied by replacing her with male characters doing the same poses. See [[https://www.pinterest.com/pin/241505598739217496/ here]] for an example.
40	** Jason attempting to "steal" all of Nightwing's red-heads, too little success (other than Roy).
41	** [[FanNickname Team Carrot-Top]] [[note]] In some continuities Jason is Strawberry-Blonde with dyed black hair. This makes it an entire team of redheads.[[/note]]
42	** Jason stole someone's costume ''again.'' [[note]] The suit Jason wears is actually one of Nightwing's old suits. Add the fact that in the previous continuity Jason had a tendency to take other people's suits and you’ve got a cesspool for a meme to emerge.[[/note]]
43	** At one point Starfire is drawn with a rather emoticon-looking facial expression. Tumblr exploded.
44	** The anti-hero "Outlaw" outfit for Jason. The Internet made numerous comparisons to Franchise/MortalKombat, [[Franchise/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles Shredder]], and [[https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/613/323/e2e.jpg Coldsteel the Hedgeheg]].
45	* NoSuchThingAsBadPublicity: The controversy over Starfire's portrayal in the first issue generated a lot of online discussion for a book that would most likely have been forgotten otherwise in the wave of New 52 #1s, which most likely helped the book avoid cancellation until ComicBook/{{Convergence}}, despite poor reviews. It drew quite a bit of attention from readers who opposed the feminist leanings of many comic journalists while creating a straw man against anyone who gave the book poor reviews. In contrast, the sequel series ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal and the ComicBook/DCRebirth series have been relatively uncontroversial, and have seen diminishing returns on sales numbers.
46	* NoYay: While there are many Red Hood fans who ship him and Arsenal, there are just as many Arsenal fans who are disgusted by the pairing in the fandom due to Arsenal being written as a YesMan to Red Hood and because they recall that when Jason and Roy originally met each other in ''New Teen Titans'', Roy was at least eight years older than Jason and a grown adult. Jason, meanwhile, was 12 years old. Even if Roy wasn't characterized so poorly, the age gap between the characters still makes it problematic.
47	* OneTrueThreesome: A huge wave of fanart for the series appeared after the title had ONLY been announced and the trio are shown together. It helps that in issue one Starfire has sex with Roy and Jason states he'd "been with" her adding more fuel to the fire. Issue six later reveals this to have been spending the entire night talking with her though. Notably, this remains a consistent element found on fanart of the series, a trend that continues even after the team's separation.
48	* PanderingToTheBase: The so-called "assassin training" with All-Caste seems to add more to "who would win" arguments on Internet forums than the book itself. It's part of the reason why Jason is frequently labeled a CreatorsPet.
49	* PortmanteauCoupleName: ''Joyfire'' for when all three are being shipped. ''Redfire'' is occasionally used for the Jason/Kori only ship, meanwhile ''Joy'' gets used for the Jason/Roy only ship. Roy/Starfire doesn't really have an official one but you'll occasionally see ''Royfire,'' and less commonly ''Arrowfire'' or ''Arrow-Star.'' And ''Jaytemis'' for those who ship Jason and Artemis in the Rebirth relaunch.
50	* SeasonalRot: The Rebirth run took a sharp downward turn with #25, with Bizarro out of the picture, and Jason going solo as a NinetiesAntiHero.
51	* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: ''Red Hood'' is one of the most popular titles of ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'', a complete turnaround from the ''New 52'' era, where it was considered mediocre at best.
52	* TakeThatScrappy: Harvest, a villain from the New 52 widely despised for being an InvincibleVillain with [[GenericDoomsdayVillain hazy motives and a generic personality]], is unceremoniously found dead in one of his old bases in Issue #17 of the Rebirth series, having been murdered and crucified offscreen, and nobody is interested in looking further into his death. Given that Scott Lobdell created Harvest, this also counts as SelfDeprecatingHumor.
53	* TaintedByThePreview: The infamous first issue turned ''many'' people off from the series and years later is still one of the first things to surface anytime this book is talked about.
54	* TheyChangedItNowItSucks:
55	** James Tynion IV's changes to the series status quo were heavily criticized and promptly swept under the rug after Lobdell's return to the book.
56	** Roy Harper's new backstory. Many fans were unhappy that his Navajo upbringing was made a minor element on Roy's characterization and that his birth father was retconned from a forest ranger who died in a fire when Roy was three to a neglectful alcoholic that died much later. Luckily, [[AuthorsSavingThrow this got reversed]]
57	** Starfire, whose famous InnocentFanserviceGirl and AllLovingHero character changed to an EthicalSlut who quickly forgot her friends had fans up in arms against her new portrayal.
58	** Many don't like Red Hood as just another generic UnintentionallyUnsympathetic "bad boy" anti-hero with Creator's Pet qualities and preferred him as a tragic and nuanced Batman antagonist.
59	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Jason coming back to Gotham, taking over the Iceberg Lounge, becoming a Don and messing with Batman would have been a great CharacterRerailment arc for Jason, but it was quickly rushed.
60	* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
61	** Many readers fail to find Jason (and to a lesser extent, Roy) sympathetic, due to Jason being something of a KarmaHoudini, who openly references the times he tried to kill members of the Batfamily.
62	** For the Dark Trinity, Batman's NoHoldsBarredBeatdown of Jason feels like an unintended TakeThatScrappy moment, given that Jason haphazardly shot Penguin in front of an audience with no thought or consideration, breaking his one promise to the father figure who raised him. Despite Scott Lobdell's attempts to portray Batman as an abusive father figure and an unrelenting {{Jerkass}}, Batman comes off as morally justified, considering that Jason has been long-established as a murderous psychopath with limited restraint.
63	** On the flip side many found RHATO #25 to be the final straw for them where Bruce Wayne/Batman was concerned as it was the last, in a long line, of moments where the 'World's Greatest Detective' and supposedly good father abused or neglected one of his children. After the entire Spyral arc with Nightwing; forcing Jason to relive his murder to resurrect Damian; treating Stephanie Brown aka Spoiler, like absolute crap and slapping Tim when he tried to help him during the entire wedding to Catwoman fiasco this was the nail in the coffin for the character. Especially as Jason never fights back during the entire issue and had just seen his team die for all he knew.
64	* WTHCostumingDepartment:
65	** Jason's new outfit was really derided by fans as many feel like it's a cheap copy to ComicBook/ThePunisher or [[Franchise/MortalKombat Sub Zero]]. While there are some who admit to liking the new outfit, ''nobody'' likes his new buzz haircut. It's kinda telling when Jason's old haircut was brought back after a few issues and various artists try his best to salvage the outfit to positive reviews.
66	** Artemis's undercut likewise got the same reaction as Jason's buzz cut with many wishing she can grow back her hair really fast. [[AuthorsSavingThrow Which she did in one chapter.]]
67	* TheWoobie:
68	** Jason, on top of being killed and resurrected, had such an awful childhood that he considers his birth as the happiest day of his life. According to his happiest memory, [[spoiler:even after all that happened, he still considers his time as Robin the best time of his life.]]
69	** Roy's a recovering alcoholic, and at one point notes that he only has two friends. His happiest memory is Killer Croc refusing to kill him when he was trying to commit "suicide by Croc". That isn't even starting on his trust issues.

Context YMMV / RedHoodAndTheOutlaws