Line #9 YMMV/NewGods


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2	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
3	** Orion: Some fans consider spoiled pampered prince who was given EVERYTHING at the expense of Mr Miracle (who was exiled to a hell beyond all imagination by his father) and who whines over how "hard" he has it growing up in paradise (not that this makes any sense, because Orion grew up on Apokolips while it was being bombarded constantly by New Genesis), while treating everyone around him (most notably Forager and the JLA/Superman) like garbage. Barda calls him out on this in the New 52 ''Mister Miracle'' comic. Some of this is almost certainly intentional; the intent behind Orion is that [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim he was not born good, but attempts to overcome his evil nature through great effort]].
4	** Metron is a secret villain who exploits the war between New Genesis and Apokolips for his own amusement, or uses it to further his experiments in science via the war.
5	** Darkseid: GodOfEvil or a necessary evil, given how without him in charge, his minions plunge Apokolips into civil war.
6	* AudienceAlienatingEra: ''Return Of The New Gods'' - not for the series itself, which ranges between not-terrible to SoOkayItsAverage, but for the wholly unnecessary redesign of Orion to look more "superheroic". He trades in his helmet and Astro-Harness for something resembling [[ComicBook/TheOutsidersDCComics Geo-Force's costume]] with a big "O" on his chest.
7	* BaseBreakingCharacter: Takion and Grayven, both {{Canon Foreigner}}s who either distract from Kirby's creations or represent ongoing attempts to keep the original setting relevant.
8	* CompleteMonster: ''New Gods'' has these denizens of [[Characters/NewGodsApokolips Apokolips]]:
9	** [[Characters/NewGodsDarkseid Darkseid]], born Prince Uxas, is the TropeCodifier for DystopiaJustifiesTheMeans. As [[PlanetBaron ruler of Apokolips]], Darkseid subjects its denizens to hellish conditions with the overwhelming majority of the population ill-treated slaves. His Elite fare no better as Darkseid is all too willing to subject them to hideous tortures or obliteration should they fail him. Darkseid detests all that is good in the universe and seeks to extend his influence everywhere he can. While he once loved someone, his mother, Heggra, wanting to make him evil, killed Suli, helping turn Darkseid into the GalacticConqueror we know him as--but not before he [[{{Matricide}} had Heggra poisoned]]. During ''ComicBook/FinalCrisis'', Darkseid is dying, and so wants to [[OmnicidalManiac destroy the multiverse and all life in it]] as a [[SuicidalCosmicTemperTantrum final gesture]]. He kills his son Orion to gain dominion over Earth. Once there, he enslaved the minds of everyone he could touch, turning them into savage parodies of themselves, intending to "murder their souls and take them to hell without end." His ultimate motive is to use the Anti-Life Equation to rob everybody of free will and turn them all into mindless zombies who worship him as a god while he tortures them eternally, all for fun. Just as bloodthirsty and monstrous as any of those who serve him, Darkseid combines urbane sophistication, limitless cruelty and insatiable drive for power, and is the one single villain who [[TheDreaded all the heroes despise and fear]].
10	** [[MeaningfulName Desaad]], the God of Sadism and Darkseid's [[TortureTechnician chief inquisitor]], is a vicious sadist and one of the most wantonly cruel deities of all Apokolips. Having assisted Darkseid's rise to power, Desaad murdered Darkseid's first lover Suli before bargaining for his life with Darkseid by murdering his mistress--and Darkseid's mother--Queen Heggra. Desaad proceeds to enact ghastly tortures on a daily basis, [[EmotionEater basking in the pain and fear]] of his victims [[AndIMustScream while never letting them die]], even reaching across the cosmos to murder hapless mortals while basking in their helpless, terrified agony. Desaad keeps whole groups enslaved in twisted amusement parks of torture with intent to create countless more across the cosmos. Ever the opportunist, Desaad has been willing to let all of Earth die to get what he wishes, has tried to spark a war with New Genesis and has [[TheStarscream even tried to betray Darkseid himself]] to make himself the supreme deity with the Multiverse becoming his playground and all who live his playthings.
11	** [[NeverMessWithGranny Granny]] [[IronicName Goodness]] is the self-styled EvilMatriarch to all of Apokolips's children and one of the evilest people to ever serve Darkseid. Having clawed her way into the graces of Darkseid and killed any trace of actual goodness left in her, Granny raises the children of Apokolips in "[[OrphanageOfFear orphanages]]" under constant, horrific torture, literally from the moment they're born; the few who manage to survive Granny's hellish teachings become nothing more than slaves who kill and die for Darkseid. Among Granny's children was Scott Free, Mr. Miracle, who was one of the few to ever escape Granny's vile clutches. Beyond this, Granny has death-marched slaves by the thousands into giant threshers to be ground up into raw fuel; [[ComicBook/AmazonsAttack manipulated the Amazons into a genocidal attack on Washington by posing as Athena]]; and nearly managed to destroy Oa during ''Final Crisis'' even after being reduced to a mere spirit. Endlessly loyal to her vile master's spirit-destroying ideals, Granny is DC's signature source of [[WouldHurtAChild child abuse]].
12	* CreepyAwesome: When in the hands of a capable writer, Darkseid is utterly ''terrifying''... but [[EvilIsCool done in such a badass way]] that you can't bring yourself to look away. ''ComicBook/MisterMiracle2017'' does this particularly well, despite - or perhaps [[NothingIsScarier because]] - Darkseid [[TheGhost barely appears]].
13	* CreatorsPet: [[https://web.archive.org/web/20110913060952/http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=5903 Takion.]] Stuck out like a sore thumb, completely overpowered, whiny, derivative, a [[CanonForeigner retroactive addition]] (he's supposed to be the extension and guardian of the Source, but that role was already filled by the Infinity-Man)... so of course he gets to become the [[LegacyCharacter new Highfather]] and get Beautiful Dreamer as a girlfriend. Most fans ignore him or portray him as [[http://mightygodking.com/images/dong1/donewgods1-20.jpg laughably ineffectual.]] Notably, pretty much every post-''Death of the New Gods'' appearance of the series puts Izaya back in the Highfather slot.
14	* CryForTheDevil: While the originally planned ending for the Fourth World had both Darkseid and Orion die, Kirby’s revised ending for Darkseid in ''The Hunger Dogs'' is somehow even sadder. Darkseid destroys New Genesis but Supertown (the city of the New Gods) detaches from the planet and escapes to rebuild. Meanwhile, Darkseid laments that new technology he doesn’t understand is making his preferred methods for war and tyranny obsolete, his underlings are all hollow shells of their former selves thanks to the Omega Effect, Apokolips is on the brink of revolution, and his nemesis Orion has escaped with both his recently freed mother and soon-to-be wife in tow. While the epilogue makes it clear that Darkseid will eventually squash the revolution, it’s implied his continued existence as a miserable despot alone and unloved is his own personal hell. It almost makes you feel sorry for him.
15	* EnsembleDarkhorse:
16	** Lashina was barely an afterthought in the initial run, but she's fetish material and was a regular in the ComicBook/SuicideSquad, which upped her profile dramatically.
17	** LivingAphrodisiac and GadgeteerGenius Bekka's prominence in the series may vary, but her popularity with the fanbase is pretty solid.
18	* FairForItsDay: Among the roster of characters is a Japanese man called [[CaptainEthnic Sonny Sumo]] and two new gods of African appearance called Vykin the Black and the Black Racer... who don't wear any black. To be fair, non-white characters in comic books were few and far between when the New Gods series came out, and while their names are issues, the characters themselves aren't written as stereotypes or anything less than admirable.
19	* EvilIsCool: Darkseid, the EvilGod who acts as the BigBad of the entire saga, quickly became the series' most popular character, overshadowing even the protagonists when it comes to prominence within the larger ''DC'' mythos. This is largely due to his imposing design, impressive powers and complex personality.
20	* FanonDiscontinuity: Anything not written by Kirby has at least some people who claim this (sometimes [[MainstreamObscurity justified]]). Compounding the problem is that Kirby's work in canon is often treated with BroadStrokes, at best. Starlin's ''Death Of The New Gods'' in particular is often lumped in with ''Countdown'' as being this to ''ComicBook/FinalCrisis''. About the only successor works that people seem to have some acceptance for is Walt Simonson and Grant Morrison's takes (who at least seemed to have their hearts in the right place even if they didn't totally get it).
21	* HardToAdaptWork: Part of the reason why ''New Gods'' have never taken off as a mainstream name in superhero media [[MainstreamObscurity despite their massive influence on the DC Universe]] is the difficulty to adapt it. ''New Gods'' has ''a lot'' going on, with a complex mythos spanning cosmic locales that only very occasionally graze against the more common superheroic fare of the rest of DC, causing most adaptations to only borrow a limited pool of characters for newer stories rather than actually trying to remake the lore of ''New Gods''. This dynamic is part of why [[BigBad Darkseid]] is so monolithic as a BreakoutVillain -- it's just far easier to transplant ''the GodOfEvil'' as an enormous threat to more commonly-recognized groups like the Justice League than it is to establish the dynamic of New Genesis and Apokolips and the dozens of godly characters present.
22	* MagnificentBastard: Kanto is ComicBook/{{Darkseid}}'s personal assassin and one of his trusted inner circle. Born Iluthin, Kanto was subjected in training to a brutal gauntlet which he survived in an unprecedented feat. Fleeing Apokolips to Renaissance Italy, his beloved was murdered by his predecessor Kanto-13. Iluthin challenged his enemy, poisoning him with a clever trick to disable him first before taking his name and place. The chief nemesis to Mr. Miracle, Kanto is ever able to challenge and trick the infamous escape artist while sharing a mutual respect. Kanto is frequently able to outwit and disable a multitude of heroes while still being so loyal to Darkseid that he refuses to ever take the throne himself even when Darkseid is indisposed.
23	* MainstreamObscurity:
24	** While the New Gods aren't exactly mainstream, many in both the American comic book industry and fanbase often refer to how influential the series was. Yet one gets the impression many of those people ''never actually read it'', especially since a full collected edition of Kirby's series was only published in 2007-2008. Notable examples include Jim Starlin (Anti-Life as depicted in his ''Cosmic Odyssey'' does not work that way!) and Creator/JohnByrne (Sleez, the New God of... porn?). Indeed, it took the Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse to give a more Kirby-accurate approach and thanks to the latter's popularity, to the extent that people know the Anti-Life Equation (from the DCAU) it's one that is accurate to Kirby.
25	** The other problem is that the stuff Kirby influenced are so much more famous. It was, for instance, one of the inspirations of ''Franchise/MastersOfTheUniverse'', to the point where the movie was originally intended to be a ''New Gods'' story before falling into DevelopmentHell. It inspired ComicBook/{{Thanos}} who on account of the insane popularity of the ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse'' is now far more famous than his inspiration, Darkseid.
26	* MyRealDaddy:
27	** A contentious example. Some think [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight only Kirby's work is really worth reading]]. According to Creator/MarkEvanier, Kirby himself was rather open to other artists using his concepts and ideas, and he initially hoped that the New Gods would be its own genre that others contribute and build on, and was okay with Darkseid becoming the GreaterScopeVillain to the DC Universe, even if he ideally wished he could complete his series.
28	** Most agree that Creator/WaltSimonson's ''Orion'' and Creator/GrantMorrison's work probably represents the best use of the characters outside their original series.
29	** The Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse animated incarnation is also seen by many to be definitive version outside the comics medium. It was also the first version to make Darkseid a firm part of Superman's rogue's gallery, with the comics following after. And of course being the DCAU, it features possibly the definitive voice cast for the characters.
30	** Paul Levitz is responsible for propelling Darkseid to his universe-threatening BigBad status in the '80s with ComicBook/TheGreatDarknessSaga.
31	** The Giffen/[=DeMatteis=] team [[GenreShift successfully revamped Mr Miracle and his supporting cast as a sitcom.]]
32	** Despite the fact that Jim Starlin and John Byrne have written extensively for the characters, their work is usually not held in as high a regard. Tom King's Mr Miracle [[ComicBook/MisterMiracle2017 mini-series]], while commercially and critically acclaimed, falls in with Byrne and Starlin's run in the eyes of Kirby purists, due to him using interpretations of the characters that originated under Starlin's run. Despite this, many feel that King's [[NothingIsScarier largely absent]], barely comprehensible [[CosmicHorrorStory Lovecraftian]] [[EldritchAbomination entity]] depiction of Darkseid is the best version of the character anyone has written since Kirby, or at the very least since ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague''.
33	* NarmCharm:
34	** With a character named Granny Goodness, you'd think you wouldn't be able to take a villain with that name seriously. But then you learn that her purpose in the story is to raise unlucky children into mindless slaves and soldiers for Darkseid. Now that you know this, her name is suddenly creepy as all hell.
35	-->'''Turpin''': So you wanna tell me why my missing kids trail leads right to you?
36	-->'''Boss Dark Side''': How could it not? As for the children ... I gave ''them'' to '''''Granny'''''.
37	** The Black Racer is [[https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/28855/1610037-black_racer_06.jpg Death on Skis]]. But he's still the goddamn GrimReaper, his form meant to represent how he's always pursuing you and will eventually catch up sooner or later.
38	** In general, the fact that the New Gods are {{Physical God}}s from beyond mortal comprehension of time and space but have names like Darkseid, Mister Miracle, and Big Barda is incredibly silly, but it gives them a unique and endearing flavor and no DC writer would dare try to rename them.
39	** Specific to Darkseid is his habit of chilling on people's couches. It's silly for a GodOfEvil to make himself at home like that, but it's iconic nonetheless. Plus, it adds a touch of EvilIsPetty to the NightmareFuel of coming home to find Darkseid waiting for you.
40	* OlderThanTheyThink: If you were born after [[Film/ANewHope 1977]], it can be pretty easy to dismiss ''New Gods'' as an uninspired ''Franchise/StarWars'' knockoff. In fact, the series began in ''[[OlderThanTheyThink 1971]]'', six years before ''Star Wars'' hit theaters--and it's likely that it was one of Creator/GeorgeLucas' primary artistic influences. You barely have to squint to see Kirby's fingerprints on Lucas' world: there's a metaphysical life-giving energy field called "The Source", a malevolent galactic conqueror in a dark helmet whose name sounds like "Dark Side", and even a hero who finds out that the dark-helmeted BigBad [[LukeIAmYourFather is actually his father]]. More broadly, Kirby's idea of merging pulp sci-fi with Myth/ClassicalMythology may have influenced Lucas' idea to put TheHerosJourney [-IN SPACE-].
41	* OnceOriginalNowCommon: The Forever People get a lot of ribbing for being more or less space hippies, but back in the day, making a book that was unapologetically in favor of anti-war activists was seen as incredibly daring--it was only a year after 58% of Americans blamed the Kent State Massacre on the students, and only three after ''Brother Power, The Geek'' was cancelled in its second issue. Nowadays, they're often dismissed as {{Fad Super}}s.
42	* OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight: There's no small amount of fans who consider Kirby's work to be the "main" part of the franchise, and everyone else's contributions to be secondary at best. This isn't helped by the franchise's MainstreamObscurity meaning that many of those other contributions outright contradict the themes and general lore and characterization of the original series.
43	* TheScrappy: The Forever People; Kirby's idea of space hippies was a complete flop with fans and the series is considered (along with the ''ComicBook/SupermansPalJimmyOlsen'' installments of the original ''Fourth World'' Saga) the weakest and least liked part of the franchise.
44	* WTHCostumingDepartment: Black Racer is [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Racer_(DC_Comics)#/media/File:Black_Racer_(Willie_Walker).png a black guy who skies through the sky in a suit of armor adorned in primary colors]].
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Context YMMV / NewGods