Line #65 YMMV/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny


1	%%
2	%%
3	%% Important note for Hindsight tropes: A common event (such as a typical natural disaster) happening in a work, then happening in real life (unless they are closely similar, such as the event happening to the same area in both reality and fiction) does not necessarily count as Harsher In Hindsight/Hilarious In Hindsight. Thanks.
4	%%
5	%% Please do not add any Complete Monster entries without first discussing it in the cleanup thread (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok). Any unauthorized additions will result in a holler to the mods. Thanks.
6	%%
7	%%
8	----
9	* AccidentalAesop:
10	** Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. One of the main reasons the Three Ships Alliance oppose Durandal's Destiny Plan, if Durandal wishes to usher forth a world without conflict through genetic determinism, [[spoiler:this also means robbing people of free will, and part of it is humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill capacity for evil]]]]. Also, the idea of a world without conflict [[spoiler:would mean the world might become a boring place to live and mankind is at the threat of stagnancy because of the absence of something to struggle against]].
11	** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and will always have the capacity for evil, and his Destiny Plan is designed to be humanity's salvation dedicated in eternal benevolence and order, [[spoiler:at the expense of robbing their ability to make decisions for themselves]]. During his standoff with Kira, if he were to be martyred the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira refutes that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]], all he can do is pass this wisdom to the next generation so they can learn from the mistakes of the past and that they might never be repeated again.
12	** If revenge is all you think about, then you are no better than the people who wronged you. Everyone has to end up losing their loved ones. Regardless, you have to keep moving forward. This is a twofold message as far as Shinn's character arc is concerned, being unable to process the trauma of his family's deaths. Having ended up enlisted as a soldier for ZAFT to oppose the Alliance's atrocities, the more he becomes consumed by rage and hatred, the more he ends up hurting people than he's supposed to protect. [[spoiler:Stella's death]] serves as the final straw for Shinn, and nearly killing Kira isn't helping his case either.
13	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
14	** Ridiculously common. Notable examples are Durandal (either a villainous MagnificentBastard able to twist nearly any circumstance to his goal of [[TakeOverTheWorld Domination]] or a WellIntentionedExtremist trying to bring peace to the world...or a ManipulativeBastard and {{Narcissist}} using some superficial charm and patience to go a ridiculously long way for his ControlFreak goals) and Lacus (either a Machiavellian VillainWithGoodPublicity using the two most badass people on the planet to TakeOverTheWorld ''or'' a genuinely decent person who's the only hope the world has for peace). It doesn't help that the two are the equivalents of Paptimus Scirocco and Haman Karn, the BigBadEnsemble of the show ''Destiny'' is a reimagining of, ''Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam'', and thus ''Gundam'' fans tend to associate elements of those characters with these ones.
15	** It applies to most of the show's relationships as well. There pretty much isn't one that's straightforward.
16	*** Shinn and Stella. Is she his ReplacementGoldfish for Mayu or do they have romantic feelings for each other? Or both? No one can agree. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' franchise goes with the former and gives them a sibling-like relationship.
17	*** Rey and the Chairman. How far does Rey's apparent ironclad loyalty extend, or is it only to "Gil" personally, with another part having doubts about Durandal's methods? If none, why does he split (Gil/the Chairman, ''ore/watashi'', [[spoiler:to be Rau or not]]) so frequently? Was it [[spoiler:Shinn]] he was really loyal to all along?
18	* AmericansHateTingle: Like in ''SEED'', Kira and Lacus have a more mixed reception in the west even though they're among the most popular characters in Japan.
19	* AntiClimaxBoss: [[spoiler:The Strike Freedom and the Infinite Justice Gundams barely receive damage in the final battle against the Legend and the Destiny Gundams, the machines who are supposed to be the last physical threat of the series. Instead, the big climax is presented when Kira confronts Durandal with a gun.]]
20	* AssPull:
21	** Neo Roanoke being [[spoiler:Mu La Flaga]] is this in the context of the original airing; Unlike the other instances of UnexplainedRecovery where we do not see a body or even the remains of clothing to leave things to the imagination, the character Neo is revealed to be was pretty much confirmed dead by the presence of a discarded helmet floating in space among the remains of their destroyed mobile suit. The Special Edition and HD Remaster fixes this by removing the helmet to make it more in line with the other instances of characters surviving their supposed deaths.
22	** Andrew having a Gaia Gundam with no explanation as to how he obtained it. AllThereInTheManual claims it's indeed Stella's Gaia, but how the Clyne Faction got ahold of it is still a mystery.
23	** The [[spoiler:Akatsuki Gundam]] is not hinted at until right before it is used, but its existence at all is rather dubious. [[spoiler:Apparently, Uzumi had a mobile suit constructed that has access to technologies like the DRAGOON system that did not exist at the time of his death, and it is able to fight on par with modern-day mobile suits when the Strike Rouge (while being piloted by Ultimate Coordinator Kira compared to how Cagalli still needs the assistance of an AI to pilot mobile suits) got trashed by regular grunts.]]
24	* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: The debatable quality of the series does ''not'' extend to Toshihiko Sahashi's soundtrack, which is some of the best composed for anime with a seamless combination of orchestral, electronic, rock, and cloral numbers. The theme songs are no slouches either (with the arguable exception of the 4th opening). Whenever you hear T.M.Revolution singing you know that Kira (or Shinn in ''Special Edition'') is going to do something amazing.
25	** The 4th opening's actually remarkably good, it's just not a song for an ''opening''. The real problem with the 4th opening (not to say it worked as an opening), was that the new ending theme and previous opening themes were still much stronger than it was, so "Wings of Words" never stood a chance. When the show was first airing, it was derided (at least among the English-speaking fandom) for sounding like it fit more in a romantic drama than in a mecha war series. It seems the Japanese producers agreed, as the ''HD Remaster'' replaces "Wings of Words" with "Vestige" by T.M.Revolution for the fourth opening.
26	* BaseBreakingCharacter: Almost every character in the series gets this. This is how controversial the series is. Some highlights:
27	** Kira and Lacus: The return of a pair of beloved characters or a SpotlightStealingSquad whose time has passed?
28	** Shinn Asuka: Good foil to Kira from the last series or just a wangsty teen pilot? Does his ProtagonistJourneyToVillain make him completely unlikable and irredeemable, or a much more interesting and pitiable character?
29	* BetterOnDVD: Many of the artistic changes seen in the [[CompilationMovie Special Edition movies]] were originally present in the DVD release.
30	* BrokenBase: Possibly one of the most controversial Gundam series ever.
31	** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character, and prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use Kira to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. Athrun is never considered the main protaganist in video games. The ''VideoGame/SDGundamGGeneration'' games usually feature Kira and the Freedom Gundam more prominently when representing the Cosmic Era as a whole, and when focusing on the different series, Shinn and the Destiny represent ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this. Shinn is portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'', ''L'' and ''UX'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'', ''K'' and ''DD''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since [[Creator/KenichiSuzumura his Japanese voice actor]] returned for the game while [[Creator/SoichiroHoshi Kira's]] didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), ''K'' is one of the most widely despised games in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes, and ''DD'' adapts ''SEED'' before covering ''Destiny'', so Kira has a significant amount of focus due to it covering his story, unlike other games that only cover his ''Destiny'' appearance. Shinn's appearances on the other hand, are generally more remembered due to how much they change him as a character. ''Z'' and ''L'' allow the player to avoid many of the tragedies Shinn suffers throughout ''Destiny'' (such as saving Stella), with the emotional support of the rest of the cast preventing his ProtagonistJourneyToVillain from happening, while ''UX'' (and ''V'' for that matter) is post-''Destiny'' and shows Shinn having matured significantly, to the point he acts as a ''mentor'' to some of the newer pilots, with ''UX'' being a very well-loved example where Shinn acts as a BigBrotherMentor to the cast of ''Anime/FafnerInTheAzureDeadAggressor'', especially Kazuki. Coupling that with Shinn's Japanese voice actor saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the de facto ''Destiny'' protag in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
32	** Athrun/Cagalli's relationship is a huge source of debate, due to the fact that no one seems to know what is going on with the two by the end. Were they really split up or are they still together, just focusing on rebuilding Orb? The fact that fake interviews and rumors have muddied the water doesn't help this at all. That they are also always depicted together like the other two main couples in the series has also made it even more difficult to tell.
33	* CatharsisFactor:
34	** For all the controversy surrounding all sides (except for the unambiguously evil and corrupt Earth Alliance), these is at least one moment of pure comeuppance given to both sides of the Archangel crew and ZAFT, particularly to their main pilot(s). After spending many episodes abusing his OmniscientMoralityLicense, even followers of the 'Church of Jesus Yamato' can agree that Kira's defeat at the hands of Shinn was a longtime coming. On the ZAFT side, for those that have a hard time tolerating Shinn's [[{{Wangst}} wangsty]] behavior, seeing him on the receiving end of Athrun's (ineffective) CorporalPunishment can be ''very'' alleviating. Possibly the best moment for many was after the aforementioned battle where Shinn defeated the Freedom and supposedly killed Kira; Shinn, on absolute cloud nine, essentially brags to Athrun about his victory and that he avenged Athrun's defeat by Kira in an earlier battle. Infuriated that Shinn would actually think that he would be proud of him killing Kira, Athrun grabs him by the collar and throws his bravado back at him. It eventually accumulates to the point where Shinn asked Athrun if he would prefer that he had perished instead, causing Athrun to finally lose it and deck Shinn full in the face.
35	** Episodes 42-43 in general. Where do we begin? From Cagalli getting her position back and immediately having her asshole fiance outed and arrested for treason, to said fiance getting crushed to death after he tries to flee the authorities. Athrun thoroughly handing Shinn his ass for the first time in his newly acquired Infinite Justice. Orb humiliating the ZAFT forces and successfully driving them from their nation. And the final cherry on top comes in at the end of Episode 43 when Meer interrupts Cagalli's global broadcast about the war with Logos to discredit Orb, she herself is interrupted by the real Lacus who publicly exposes her as a fake and just one of Durandal's many deceptions to the public. Even Durandal himself didn't see it coming!
36	** [[spoiler:Lord Djibril]] is given a similarly-karmic and violent death as [[spoiler:his predecessor]], only this time, they ''animate him being incinerated''!
37	* CommonKnowledge:
38	** The Destiny Gundam’s ''Palma Fiocina'' is not actually an attack like [[Anime/MobileFighterGGundam Shining Finger]] but rather a beam cannon that can be shot from its hands as seen in [[https://youtu.be/Li7PKQAMFiw?t=19 Gundam Seed Destiny: Generation of C.E.]] and the [[https://gunpla.fandom.com/wiki/1/144_ZGMF-X42S_Destiny_Gundam?file=1-144-Destiny-Gundam-boxart.jpg NG 1/144 Destiny Gundam model kit’s cover]]. Very few (if any) media portray the ''Palma Fiocina'' used as a ranged attack as not even the ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' games have done this. Several sources claim that the ''Palma Fiocina'' are a short-range weapon and not really practical for a long-range attack, though there's also zero scenarios where Shinn actually attempts this. In side content such as video games, there are frequent scenarios of Shinn fighting against or alongside Domon, only furthering the comparisons with ''Anime/GundamBuildFightersTry'' and ''Gundam Build Divers Battlogue'' having fights of the Destiny Gundam clashing with the Build Burning Gundam and Burning Gundam, the latter outright having a clash between the ''Palma Fiocina'' and "Burning Finger."
39	** A few fans believed that the Impulse VS Freedom battle was too stacked in Shinn's favor, particularly with the Impulse having exchangeable parts. While this is partially true, this made the battle slightly more even as the Freedom has unlimited energy from the Nuclear Reactor, making the battle of infinite physical parts vs infinite energy.
40	** The ''Nazca'' carrying the Neutron Stampede is commonly assumed to be called the [[MeaningfulName ''Marie Curie'']]. Except that it's ''not''; no name is given in-series, and the origin of the name is from a fanfic called ''Fanfic/BirdsOfAFeather''.
41	** It is commonly believed that part of the reason behind [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Cagalli's poor writing]] in Destiny is because her voice actor Naomi Shindo was having an affair with the director Fukuda, and that Morosawa (the series's writer and Fukuda's wife) assassinated her character out of spite. This is however not true for a number of reasons, not the least of which because Fukuda and Morosawa weren't yet married and that Morosawa was off having brain surgery at the time. If Shindo was indeed involved in an affair, then both her and Fukuda's careers would have been over due to Japan's exceedingly low tolerance towards extra-marital affairs. Yet the both of them continue to get work to this very day.
42	** Some detractors tend to exaggerate how much focus Kira gets during the show by saying he [[SpotlightStealingSquad becomes the main character]] the moment the Freedom Gundam returns. However, this isn't really the case, as Shinn still gets generally much more focus as it shifts perspectives between them. It's not until the final arc that Kira really takes the main character role again, with the credits listing him first and Shinn third. And even then, the extended ending first shown in ''Final Plus'' puts the focus on Shinn once again.
43	** Relatedly, Kira's detractors frequently overplay how much the narrative puts him in the right and never doubting himself, which helped contribute to his [[FanNickname Jesus Yamato reputation]]. However, more often than not the show portrays Kira as making situations worse because he is often acting without all of the facts or with trying to help Cagalli fix her mistakes. And all of his actions cause problems because of his hero complex and Athrun even calls him out on it, which may be hypocritical but is still something Kira acknowledges as probably being very true. Kira never once acts like he knows better than anyone and is often show doubting himself even late into the series because he doesn't know if what he's doing is the right thing. What IS clear is that he's acting completely in line with what he's experienced from the last show and the two years of lingering trauma following his final revelations and battle with Rau. If there IS only thing he doesn't doubt himself about, it's his inability to trust either side. And why would he, considering the circumstances for him and the ''Archangel'' crew to stop hiding? The narrative doesn't frame his mistrust as unjustified, but still recognizes that it does cause problems regardless.
44	* CompleteMonster: [[DiabolicalMastermind Lord Djibril]] is [[YMMV/MobileSuitGundamSEED Muruta Azrael]]'s successor, with all of his predecessor's bigotry, but [[StupidEvil none of his intelligence or charisma]]. Having returned Blue Cosmos to its terrorist roots, he continues the Extended program; exploits the tragedy of the Junius 7 ColonyDrop, opening the war with a nuclear assault on the colonies; unleashes the [[WeaponOfMassDestruction Destroy]], piloted for one of his Extended, on Eurasia--leading to the deaths of thousands, if not millions, of civilians--personally kills over a million innocents with the superweapon Requiem while bragging about having the guts to do it; and is responsible for turning Mu La Flaga into his minion Neo Roanoke. Convinced that his own survival is paramount above all else, Djibril cowardly and regularly abandons his allies when the going gets tough and entertains plans of ruling the world when the war is over. A low-functioning sociopath with access to unlimited resources and technology, and determined to [[FinalSolution annihilate the Coordinators as a race]], Djibril was a combination of impotent rage and cowardice, but with the money, influence, and total immorality to make him horrifying instead of merely pathetic.
45	* ContestedSequel: While the West generally considers the series to fall under {{Sequelitis}}, Japanese fans are split on whether or not ''SEED Destiny'' is a good followup with strong characters and themes or a trainwreck that tampers with the characters from its predecessor.
46	* CriticProof:
47	** ''Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny'' is very popular among the Japanese audiences and even won the Anime Grand Prix award for Most Popular Anime in 2004 and 2005. Western reviewers liked the series but not as much as its prequel. However, if you ever ask this to a Gundam fan prepare to hear how this series is one of the worst things Sunrise ever created.
48	** In a nationwide poll asking what readers of Gundam Ace thought was the best Gundam series, [[https://youtu.be/kCbpCjLYSt4?t=305 Gundam SEED Destiny ranked 12th out of 20 entries]] despite selling more than most entries that was ranked above it. Its Gunpla sales were also a huge disappointment for Bandai. While Destiny was popular with general audiences, most everyone was highly critical of it.
49	* CriticalBacklash:
50	** While you can still find haters of this show, nowadays there is a non-insignificant portion of the fandom that argues that the hatred it receives is overblown, and while it does have some glaring flaws, it's not as bad as its haters say. It helps that recent entries such as ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE AGE]]'' and ''[[Anime/GundamReconguistaInG Reconguista in G]]'' have also been severely criticized, with many arguing that the title of "Worst Gundam Show" that ''Destiny'' carried for so long should instead be given to one of them. While it's not considered VindicatedByHistory, ever since the release of ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamTheWitchFromMercury The Witch of Mercury]]'' [[note]]Another series heavily focusing on character drama, with ''SEED'' and ''SEED Destiny'' often being considered good options to watch for newcomers after ''G-Witch''[[/note]], it's fairly common to see praise and enjoyment for ''SEED Destiny'', especially with the excitement for the then upcoming ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDFreedom''.
51	** Shinn Asuka as a protagonist has also been subject to this. Back when the presence of the show was very common online, he was heavily hated to the point he was widely considered the worst Gundam protagonist (which does continue even to this day by older fans) to the point several detractors even ''refuse'' to acknowledge him as one. Nowadays, while his detractors can still be very vocal, several watchers have observed that a lot of the problems with Shinn (namely his FaceHeelTurn in the last third) were due to numerous factors out of his control (namely with how many people were manipulating him). Older arguments of Shinn "snapping out of it" and joining the heroes' side wouldn't make sense with how the narrative is presented. Many viewers also argue that Shinn becoming a villain makes him more interesting as an character instead of the general expectations. In fact, it's reached the point that many of the modern fans say that the ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsZ'' version (who's a favorite of many fans and even Creator/KenichiSuzumura) actually misses the point of Shinn as a character (a sentiment shared by Fukuda).
52	* DesignatedHero: The Three Ships Alliance never seem to get called out for their own errors. This includes their "rescue" of Cagalli that sparked a disastrous offensive by her incompetent groom and their "intervention" in PLANT's invasion of ORB to arrest LOGOS members, [[spoiler: which indirectly led to a few of the colonies being blown up thanks to Djibril's escape]].
53	* DiagnosedByTheAudience: Given Stella's very limited verbal communication, it's impossible to know exactly what her issues are. Given her background at Lodonia, we don't even know whether they're from birth or lab-induced. All we know is, she has a bunch.
54	* DieForOurShip: It's hard to know which girl of the Athrun Harem takes more bashing from fans of the other girls, though Meer and Meyrin get it particularly hard. Not even Cagalli was safe.
55	* DracoInLeatherPants:
56	** Chairman Durandal gets the biggest pair in series. There's a difference between being the WellIntentionedExtremist DarkMessiah he is, and MessianicArchetype that some fans turn him into.
57	** Auel, Stella, and Sting are sympathetic, but they are not the saints some fans turn them into.
58	** Rey manages to suffer from both this ''and'' RonTheDeathEater depending on which side of the BrokenBase fans are on.
59	* EnsembleDarkhorse:
60	** Despite not getting any actual lines in the series, minor ZAFT pilot Shiho Hahnenfuss managed to gather quite a following. [[AllThereInTheManual She was a major character]] in a SpinOff manga, so it explains this a bit.
61	** Yzak and Dearka too, to the point where fans wanted them to have a bigger role in the story.
62	* FanNickname:
63	** [[{{Franchise/StarWars}} Darth Shinn/Darth Asuka and Chancellor Gilpatine]] for Shinn and Gilbert Durandal, respectively, thanks to their portrayal in the last ten episodes or so. Similarly, Darth Lux/Empress Palpacus, after [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTw2YT6FeeE the closing shot in]] ''Final Plus'', with Darth Kira making an appearance in the fourth TV Movie.
64	** Meer Campbell is frequently called "Lacus Clone", for [[BodyDouble obvious reasons]].
65	** Andrew Waltfield's AceCustom Murasame is known, especially in VideoGame/GundamVsSeries fandom as "Torasame", after Waltfield's RedBaron nickname, Sabaku no Tora/Desert Tiger.
66	** [[spoiler:Mu La Flaga, The Zombie of Endymion]], based on his original RedBaron moniker and the fact he [[spoiler:came back from the dead with nothing more than a cool scar]].
67	** Captain Todaka is the Gundam Universe's [[Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann Bruce Ironstaunch]] after he [[spoiler:lets the Archangel go after they ''kidnap'' Cagalli and repeatedly taking Yuna to task for his ''grasp'' of tactics]].
68	** One of the Destiny's weapons, the [[FacePalmOfDoom Palma Fiocina]], is called the "Destiny Finger", in reference to [[Anime/MobileFighterGGundam Domon Kasshu]]'s finishing move, the Shining Finger/God Finger.
69	** To Japanese fans, the Infinite Justice Gundam has been shortened to "Inja" (インジャ) (combining the first syllables of the two words), which is pronounced the same as "hermit" (隠者).
70	* FanonDiscontinuity: Many fans who feel that ''SEED'' didn't need a continuation or just don't like the characterizations of its returning cast or the writing prefer to pretend that this series never happened.
71	* FanPreferredCouple: This show {{s\|hipSinking}}ank Dearka/Miriallia. Considering that this pairing was actually quite popular among the fandom during the first show's run, [[DieForOurShip the reaction was predictable]]. The fandom's solution is to have them make up after the series ending and get back together again, if fanfic is any indication.
72	** Although she was present in ''Gundam SEED'', the fact that Shiho appeared more frequently in this show upped her popularity and really kick-started the Yzak/Shiho fanbase. Prior to this, fans of Yzak looking to pair him with someone tended to do so with either [[HoYay Dearka]], Flay (simply due to the fact that she was the only major female character he was around late in the series), or even [[CrackPairing Cagalli]]. Once people started noticing Shiho, she quickly became the favorite for Yzak, and the other pairings were largely forgotten.
73	** Shinn/Stella shippers occasionally pair Rey and Lunamaria together. The point in the anime where Shinn and Stella have their moments together has yet to have any decent moments between Shinn and Lunamaria who mostly argue with each other. On the other hand, Rey and Lunamaria have had a few decent scenes together such as Rey immediately defending Lunamaria from the explosion when the Second Stage Gundams were stolen and Rey offering his hotel room to Lunamaria and voluntarily sleeps in the ''Minerva'' instead rather than being a PairTheSpares situation.
74	* FashionVictimVillain: Lord Djibril. The man is running around in ''pajamas'', for crying out loud. Ditto Yuna and his [[IconicOutfit sleepwear]]. Not as commonly criticized but Kira's civilian wear continues to have an impractical number of belts.
75	* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Despite being hopelessly irrelevant, the Blast Impulse is very popular with western fans for its unique color scheme and payload. It took over a decade after the final episodes aired for Bandai to give it any kits outside of its original No Grade.
76	* HarsherInHindsight:
77	** Shinn's negative character traits like his arrogance, rude attitude and especially believing Cagalli is all-talk and behaving poorly to her may have stemmed from Agnes's treatment of him in the "Moonlight Valkyrie" novel. In the prequel novel, Agnes dismisses Shinn’s tragic past as a sob story which mirrors how Shinn dismisses Cagalli’s (very much real) issues and mistakes as she is trying to lead Orb.
78	** [[spoiler:Rey's (and possibly Yolan's) death hits a lot harder after reading the "Moonlight Valkyrie" novel. [[NotHelpingYourCase Even though it came off as backhanded]] from Rey, he and Yolan stood up to Agnes when she began bullying Shinn back in the academy. Rey was more than happy to tutor Shinn and might have been the only one to genuinely believe that Shinn, who at the time was a very poor student, had potential to become a great pilot.]]
79	* SugarWiki/HeReallyCanAct: Shinn's status as a BaseBreakingCharacter does ''not'' extend to Creator/KenichiSuzumura's absolutely stellar performance, who absolutely sells all elements of Shinn's character. From his troubled moments of his past, his HotBlooded screams during battle, and ''especially'' the scenes where his sanity takes a severe dive.
80	* HilariousInHindsight: Episode 14's plot would be the basis for a Kamen Rider [[Recap/KamenRiderSaberSpinoffKamenRiderSabelaAndKamenRiderDurendal mini-series]] that involves a suitor setting up an ArrangedMarriage with the daughter of a high-profile family for their personal gain, only for the wedding to be crashed by the bride's older brother.
81	** Shinn's MemeticLoser and DecoyProtagonist status in favor of Kira and Athrun considered the true protagonist of ''Destiny'' almost feels reversed when ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedFreedom Freedom]]'' came out. Kira is definitively the protagonist there but Shinn and Athrun (the latter got slightly DemotedToExtra but still very relevant) got much more memorable scenes, making them be the reason fans remember the film quite well rather than Kira.
82	* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: Some detractors of the series feel that ''SEED Destiny'' retreads too many plot points and character roles from ''SEED'', with the finale (where the old cast takes over again) being a particular sticking point. Outside of that, the mobile suit designs ramp up the Universal Century cues to the point where there are actual Zakus as opposed to Zaku expies (like the GINN from the previous series).
83	* ItWasHisSled: Shinn is a DecoyProtagonist and Kira becomes the main character again in the final stretch of the series.
84	* JerkassWoobie:
85	** Shinn's an unpleasant little jerk a lot of the time, but that doesn't make what he went through any less horrific. Many viewers want to hug him and slap him at the same time, screaming at him "YOU IDIOT! STOP RUINING YOUR LIFE AND OTHERS'!".
86	** Auel and Sting seem to count for some fans, as they're massve jerks but are also mere pawns in this "game" of war and, as members of the Extended group, are ''deeply'' fucked up in all senses.
87	* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: In a series with a [[FantasticRacism bigoted]] sociopath and a manipulative SocialDarwinist as its main two villains, DecoyProtagonist Shinn Asuka tends to get ''a much'' harder time from the fandom for his hypocrisy and InnocentlyInsensitive remarks.
88	* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Athrun. There's Meer, Luna, Meyrin, Cagalli, and for those willing to stretch the Meer thing, Lacus. Leads to much DieForOurShip.
89	* MagnificentBastard: [[DarkMessiah Chairman Gilbert Durandal]] of [[Characters/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestinyZAFTForce ZAFT]] sees himself as the saviour of Earth and nearly persuaded most of the planet to go along with it. Presenting himself as a moderate and a pacifist, Durandal made use of Lord Djibril and [[Characters/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestinyEarthAllianceForces Blue Cosmos]]' blatant evil to launch an invasion of the Earth Sphere disguised as a liberation, using his own reputation for honesty and the services of Lacus Clyne impersonator Meer Campbell to camouflage his intentions, and scattering agents of [[StateSec FAITH]] throughout the ZAFT military to keep an eye on its loyalty. Preying on the emotional insecurities of those in his service, Durandal turned initial protagonist Shinn Auska into the very thing he hated most, and kept veterans of the previous war out of the picture or unsure if they should oppose him for most of the series. Only killed when he loses the faith of his most loyal enforcer, Durandal dies convinced that he was right and that without his Destiny Plan the [[WellIntentionedExtremist world is doomed]].
90	* MemeticLoser:
91	** Lunamaria Hawke, thanks mostly to her appearances in the ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' games. While she missed a pretty big target once during the series (and the following times she opened fire during the series she had average marksmanship), the games turned it into her having ''outrageously'' bad aim (of the [[ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy "wouldn't hit the moon if she was standing on it"]] variety) and she became a JokeCharacter.
92	** Poor Shinn will forever be remembered as the only ''Gundam'' protagonist [[DecoyProtagonist to have the spotlight stolen from him in favor of his predecessor]].
93	** The Savior Gundam's is best known for being "Savior'd" by Kira where it gets sliced apart.
94	** Sting becomes known as the first Gundam pilot in the Cosmic Era to have his machine completely destroyed by {{Mook}} units. His Chaos Gundam was not destroyed by ace pilots in ZAKUs like Athrun, Dearka and Yzak but by your average pilots in Murasames.
95	* MemeticMutation:
96	** "I know what you're saying, but at this moment, ''Cagalli is crying her heart out!''"
97	** "[[PaperThinDisguise Alex Dino]], he is an ATHRUN."
98	** "How the fuck can he survive that."[[note]]Mostly towards Kira surviving Freedom's destruction. Yes, he shut down the nuclear reactor, but he did so about 2 seconds before Impulse impaled Freedom, which should have been way too late.[[/note]]
99	** Minerva, the ship Shinn and the others are assigned in, is often mocked for looking like a shoe.
100	** [[VideoGame/GrandTheftAuto "Grand Theft Gundam."]] [[note]]Due to the '''sheer''' amount of Suits stolen here (no less than '''15''' in total when you count both series together (including the side mangas)), the series gets nicknamed as this. With people even making fun of ZAFT's poor security measures, due to them infamously losing far more suits than [[LaserGuidedKarma they initially stole by comparison in the beginning.]][[/note]]
101	* MisaimedFandom: There are fans who believe that Durandal was right and wanted him to impose his [[TheSocialDarwinist Social Darwinist]] Utopia on the grounds that he really was the only hope for the world. Too bad he's a DarkMessiah.
102	* MisBlamed: Fukuda and Morosawa have a reputation as {{Lying Creator}}s that may be entirely due to poor fan translations of the relevant interviews, plus a supposed "Morosawa interview" that was apparently fully made up by haters.
103	* MoralEventHorizon:
104	** Djibril crosses it for good when he unleash the Destroy on Eurasia.
105	** Durandal crosses it when he uses Requiem to force the rest of the world to fall in line with his plans.
106	* MyRealDaddy: The canon is much better received when featured in VideoGame/SuperRobotWars games, thanks to typically [[FixFic changing portions of the plot]]. Kenichi Suzumura has even gone so far as to say that the Shinn depicted in ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsZ'' is the one "that lives in his heart".
107	* NeverLiveItDown:
108	** During one of her first sorties with the Impulse, Luna has an opportunity to destroy a shuttle carrying a fleeing Djibril into space. [[spoiler:She misses all her shots and he escapes]]. This ''one'' thing has eternally defined her character for some people, though it was already established in episode 7 that Luna was a lousy shot during her target practice sessions. (Which makes it more Talia's fault for assigning the long range bombardment weapons to the worst shot of the trio.) Note that the manga adaptation had ''Kira'' in the same scenario and missing too.
109	** Athrun's role got some criticism to the point of being listed as the dumbest Gundam character in an official Sunrise poll. No matter that it stemmed from mental issues (like ConflictingLoyalty which Durandal exploited) and he returned to his normal level of competence once he got over them toward the end of the series.
110	** People often like bringing up Shinn whining about his parents and sister when in the show he stopped doing it openly pretty quickly.
111	** Neo Roanoke gets this over breaking his promise to Shinn to never let Stella enter the battlefield, despite establishing [[TragicVillain he did regret it but thought he had no choice]] and the later reveal it was due to Neo being brainwashed which him to pull a HeelFaceTurn.
112	** Many of Kira's detractors insist that he is a terrible person because he [[spoiler:killed Stella.]] Never mind that his expression afterward shows clear regret as opposed to him being completely apathetic.
113	* PanderingToTheBase: Fans often accuse the series of pandering when Kira [[SpotlightStealingSquad is thrust back into the spotlight]] from episode 39 onwards, due to his popularity in Japan even though WordOfGod made it clear [[http://forums.sgcafe.com/anime/23434-yet-another-seed-destiny-interview.html the character was always planned to take a big role before the show started]] (that's not even mentioning how the first opening foreshadows Freedom vs Impulse).
114	* ReplacementScrappy: Lord Djibril is often seen as a much weaker villain compared to Murata Azrael. Unlike Azrael who was a highly effective antagonist for the last stage of ''SEED'' nicely countering Patrick Zala, Djibril is a one note glaringly incompetent moron who who only really serves to make Durandal and ZAFT look good. It ''really'' doesn't help that he keeps managing to escape his comeuppance for most of the series until the viewer is thoroughly sick of his stint as the villain.
115	* RonTheDeathEater:
116	** Fans who disagree with Kira and Lacus' tactics often forget their motives and try to paint Lacus as the Cosmic Era's true GreaterScopeVillain and turn Kira into [[OmnicidalManiac Rau]] 2.0.
117	** The ''actual'' Rau 2.0, Rey, also suffers from this at the hands of fans who Flanderise him into an irredeemable bastard, while forgetting his admiration for Durandal, [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]], and a genuine friendship with Shinn. Which ironically demonstrates the flaws in the Destiny Plan that Rey believed in so much; he was genetically identical to Rau yet a distinctly different person.
118	** One of the rarer cases but Athrun suffers from this by some for how he provides conflicting advice to Shinn [[MortonsFork where he has hit Shinn for disobeying orders and again for ''following'' orders]]. Athrun getting called out in ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsZ'' for his indecisiveness by Yzak and his mentoring by [[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam Quattro]] does not help. If the ZAFT route was chosen for the ''Destiny'' final battle, [[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam Kamille, Amuro]] and even Kira point out that Athrun gives up too easily without trying all options when it came to solving problems.
119	* RootingForTheEmpire: The numbers of those who were already rooting for the Earth Alliance in the previous series (since it had some sympathetic POV shots) swelled when they practically became {{Card Carrying Villain}}s in this one. It did not help that some of the portrayals came off as political {{Take That}}s. The people who root for ZAFT, conversely, tend to fall under DracoInLeatherPants.
120	* TheScrappy: The BrokenBase may fight over just about every aspect of ''Destiny'', but just about nobody on either side likes the DOM Trooper pilots Hilda Harken, Mars Simeon and Herbert Von Reinhard. Poor characterization plus overuse of Zeon {{Exp\|y}}ies equals [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam Black Tri-Stars]] {{virtuous\|CharacterCopy}} clones who spout lines like "You'd have to be pretty messed up to disagree with Lacus-sama!" Shinn fans hate them for being one-dimensional zealots, while Kira fans hate them for [[NotHelpingYourCase Not Helping Their Case]]. Even many Kira fans were left wishing that that Shinn or Luna would subject the DOM pilots to [[KilledOffForReal the Black Tri-Stars treatment]], especially since that would've made the finale seem like less of an unrealistic CurbStompBattle and more like something Kira's side had to actually work for. Ever since the release of ''Freedom'' in 2024 where Hilda gets more characterization, this trope has slowly become averted.
121	* SignatureScene:
122	** The battle between the Freedom and Impulse. Even many who despise the series praise this fight, and a lot of the Impulse's later model kits and figures include accessories to be able to recreate the finishing blow.
123	** The HD Remaster has its own Signature Scene in Kira's fight scene in the Strike Rouge, which was completely remade to take advantage of the mobile suit's capabilities. In the original airing the Strike Rouge is trashed without doing much damage to the enemy forces, while in the HD Remaster version Kira uses every weapon available to successfully hold himself against superior numbers, the machine only getting trashed when he is nearly docked into the Eternal. It is considered the highlight of the HD Remaster.
124	* SpecialEffectFailure:
125	** Some scenes will give the Strike Freedom Gundam a gold chrome effect to its joints. Emphasis on ''some'', as others will give it flat gold coloring, or only give some of its body parts the chrome effect and leave others flat, such as the full-body shot of it protecting the Akatsuki leaving the hands flat but everything else chromed. Speaking of the Akatsuki, let's just say said chrome effect is probably suited to be used in moderation rather than on an entire damn thing.
126	** The StockFootage usage isn't as graceful as it was in the previous series, leading to things like the Impulse Gundam occasionally turning into the Strike Gundam.
127	* StrangledByTheRedString:
128	** Shinn's and Lunamaria's respective first loves are Stella and Athrun. Stella dies tragically, Athrun, along with Lunamaria's sister, Meyrin, defect, are shot down by Shinn and presumed to be dead. [[spoiler:They got better.]] Lunamaria and Shinn end up together but due to the way it was handled, they are widely believed to have been this. The Special Edition is a little better about this. (And now that their voice actors Creator/KenichiSuzumura and Creator/MaayaSakamoto are married, this can now be seen as ''both'' {{Hilarious\|InHindsight}} and HeartwarmingInHindsight.)
129	** Talia and Chairman Durandal have a DestructiveRomance with virtually no affection or love demonstrated between them at all, yet she's portrayed in his mind and in the opening as "fated to be with him" to the point [[spoiler:she abruptly decides to commit suicide when she's not the one who fatally wounds him]].
130	* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: While there aren't too many complaints about replacing "Wings of Words" with "Vestige" as the fourth opening theme, all of the instances where the latter was used as an insert song being cut out has been less well-received. The Strike Freedom's first launch in particular loses much of its impact due to Vestige being replaced with instrumental music.
131	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
132	** Heine Westenfluss, the first proper FAITH member we are introduced to and an effective {{Foil}} to Athrun, [[spoiler:dies in his second onscreen battle (''only'' onscreen battle if watching the original airing)]] without getting the chance to properly show his [[AcePilot credentials]] or much of his personality; however, Heine was a DeadStarWalking.
133	** Talia Gladys and Arthur Trine. They were positioned to be the Murrue and Natarle/Mu of the sequel, with strong, interesting personalities of their own, however due to the increased cast size and writing problems of the show's second half, they stay OutOfFocus, with silent scenes rather than any pivotal moments, and are mostly remembered for Arthur's comedic gags. Talia could have done more [[spoiler:before running off to die at the end]], or perhaps had a storyline that led to a different, less abrupt end, and Arthur certainly could have done something rather than simply being TheCassandra.
134	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
135	** Basically nothing about Neo Roanoke's identity is played to its full potential; most of the implications (such as the parallels between his situation and the Destiny Plan) are never even ''addressed'', let alone things the fanbase was made to expect, [[BaitAndSwitchCredits like an armed conflict between Phantom Pain and the Archangel]]. Nor did they bother to have him become TheAtoner for the horrible things he did while brainwashed, instead just having him go straight back to being [[spoiler:''SEED''-era Mu La Flaga]] as if regaining his old memories caused him to forget all about being Neo.
136	** The halfway mark of the series has the Minerva crew discover the lab where the [[{{Tykebomb}} Extended]] were created, and see the records of exactly what horrible things Lord Djibril did to make them. It's treated like a big important moment in the story...that never comes up again.
137	** Shinn unknowingly kills [[spoiler:Todaka]]. He killed the person who [[spoiler:helped him to get to where he is in the present day]], so you would expect for him to eventually find out and for the act to have a huge effect on him. Especially since one of his biggest problems is his BlackAndWhiteInsanity. Having him kill someone he cares about could trigger some positive CharacterDevelopment on him, but depending on what Durandal and Rey tell him and how he reacts, it could also be used for his ProtagonistJourneyToVillain. However, he never finds out about it.
138	** The idea that Shinn's family was killed in the crossfire of the Freedom and Forbidden could have been used to strengthen Shinn's desire to shoot down the Freedom. Instead, Shinn never addresses that the same mobile suit he is fighting in the present day is the same one that was in the battle where his family died.
139	** Promotional art featured the Strike Freedom fighting the Destiny Gundam. Neither the Strike Freedom and Destiny get an actual fully-fledged battle that does not involve another party interfering.
140	** [[https://youtu.be/oRS0rk1yXlw?t=47 The original Wings of Words opening imply that Shinn and Rey would have a duel]]. This does happen in the ''Super Robot Wars'' games, particularly ''Z'' and ''L'' but does not happen in the anime.
141	* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
142	** Shinn Asuka was supposed to be a TragicHero who's anger-issues from his tragic past and manipulations by the villains caused him to BecameTheirOwnAntithesis and villain. The one thing that was supposed to show he was still sympathetic was his romance with Lunamaria. But since it happed after he seemingly killed Lunamaria's sister and LoveInterest, which Shinn regretted and apologized to her for [[IDidWhatIHadToDo but still thought necessary]], and was [[ProtagonistJourneyToVillain the turning point for his character]], it came off as an example of how screwed-up they were as opposed to redeeming. Shinn nearly killing Lunamaria when blinded by anger in the finale was supposed to be [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone when he realized his wrongdoing]], which didn't work out due the above and the rushed ending leaving no time for him to do or express anything meaningful over it. This was [[AuthorsSavingThrow somewhat fixed in the Special Editions]] where the extended ending shows [[TheAtoner he's attempting to make up for his actions]], but it's only in ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsZ'', which revised his character and story, [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap that he's considered redeemed]]. This was only further enhanced with ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedFreedom'' showing how far he's come under the direction of the right people that ''aren't'' using him.

Context YMMV / MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny