Line #21 YMMV/GoldenSun


1	'''Note:''' This page lists tropes for both ''Videogame/GoldenSun1'' and its direct sequel ''VideoGame/GoldenSunTheLostAge''.
2
3	[=YMMVs=] related to ''VideoGame/GoldenSunDarkDawn'' go [[YMMV/GoldenSunDarkDawn here]].
4	----
5	* AccidentalAesop: While Sheba was mostly brought around as a hostage in the first game, Sheba has a secondary goal in ''The Lost Age'': To find out more about her MysteriousPast. This sadly never gets mentioned - while some cried TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot, others took this as another aesop of "You can't always find all the answers you seek". Or, [[TakeAThirdOption because Sheba does very little actual investigation]], "You won't find the answers you seek wandering around blindly."
6	* AccidentalInnuendo: "Isaac got a Hard Nut."
7	* {{Adorkable}}:
8	** It doesn't show up often due to the events of the plot, but when you first control Felix there is this scene of him [[http://38.media.tumblr.com/99d90a29515ad380349515a6fd877f64/tumblr_nbqav3PUWC1rkljv1o1_400.gif checking his injuries by comically wagging his arms and legs]]. Said scene looks so awkward and out of place[[note]]Compared to his attitude in the first game[[/note]] it is rather cute.
9	** Eoleo as a tot in ''The Lost Age''. The bangs and perpetually-confused expression hide a sneaky, resourceful, dangerous little boy.
10	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
11	** Babi as an EvilOverlord, for one. It would seem that Tolbi is budding into TheEmpire, and much of his backstory is a little less than sympathetic. [[HorribleJudgeOfCharacter Nevertheless, the party seems to take all of his requests without questioning anything.]]
12	** It's also debatable where exactly on the grand scale between good and evil the Proxians stand, with being {{Anti Villain}}s and all.
13	** Alex's status as a villain is somewhat contentious, as it isn't until after the second game ends that it is revealed that he had an ulterior motive for wanting the lighthouses lit. Which is something that Saturos and Menardi--and Felix--''were already trying to do when they met him.'' Is he a [[TheChessmaster Chessmaster]] and the ultimate BigBad of the series, or just a SmugSnake BigBadWannabe who isn't nearly as clever as he thinks he is? On the one hand, he flawlessly manipulates both the heroes and the other villains into getting him unimaginable power. The only reason this fails is because of what is almost literal divine intervention from the Wise One, and even then, ''Dark Dawn'' shows he still came out ahead in the end anyway. But on the other, these factors were mostly outside his control. All he ''really'' did was take advantage of an ancient prophecy the heroes didn't know about and the Proxians either didn't know about or just didn't care to stop, and the one character with both knowledge and will to stop him thwarted his plans with trivial ease. His status as BigBad is also contested, as he is the series' sole recurring villain and he seems to be getting more and more powerful with every game, but he has never been the main antagonist or even a direct threat to the heroes at any point in the story.
14	** The Wise One being a jerk god that wants to keep Alchemy out of human hands for his own selfish reasons. The selfish part might have been jossed by ''Dark Dawn'', since [[spoiler:it's revealed that the Wise One is actually a man-made being and it's outright confirmed that the ancients screwed themselves over and tried to prevent Alchemy's release. However, this just raises the question of whether the ancients were outright {{Jerkass}}es when it came to ''their'' policies on Alchemy.]]
15	** [[NiceGirl Mia]] having a hidden [[BitchInSheepsClothing malevolent personality]]; she can equip, of all things, a ''[[EvilWeapon Wicked Mace]]''. Nonetheless a lot of fans ''[[NightmareFetishist love]]'' this idea, no matter how out-of-character it is. This shows in the [[WebVideo/GoldenSunTheAbridgedSeries abridged series]] and the four-panel comics, where [[TookALevelInJerkass psychotic, arrogant and bitchy]] Mia is very well-received within the fandom.
16	** Is Felix actually faking his {{jerkass}} behavior towards Isaac's party in the first game just to gain Saturos' and Menardi's trust or he actually is one and [[TookALevelInKindness becomes much nicer]] in ''The Lost Age'' as he spends his time travelling with Kraden, Sheba, Piers and his sister?
17	** Speaking of Felix, did he know all along that [[spoiler: the seal on Alchemy was slowly destroying Weyard]], or did he only find out when the rest of his party did? The Proxians definitely knew, but it's not clear if they told him or not. Isaac even asks him when they meet up in ''The Lost Age'', but how Felix responds is up to the player. Depending on which interpretation you believe, this means Felix is either a noble AntiHero doing what has to be done even if it means coming to blows with his old friends, or a still sympathetic but somewhat more selfish character willing to unleash a potentially world-devastating power for sake of a few people he personally cares about.
18	** The 4-Koma makes quite a few characters less than heroic: Isaac is a [[http://golden-sun-the-lost-comics.tumblr.com/post/111086906137/now-i-aint-sayin-he-a-gold-digger-but-he-aint greedy bastard]] willing to [[http://golden-sun-the-lost-comics.tumblr.com/post/111639495962/friends-dont-let-friends-sell-creatures-with sell a Djinni]] for some quick gold and [[http://golden-sun-the-lost-comics.tumblr.com/post/112273394862/i-didnt-do-it-nobody-saw-me-cant-prove uses his Psynergy to get]] a panty shot from Mia, Layana's reason for not using the military to bring back Hammet involves [[http://golden-sun-the-lost-comics.tumblr.com/post/112275302277/the-only-thing-better-than-footnotes-is-cited adultery]]...
19	* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Creator/MotoiSakuraba [[AwesomeMusic/GoldenSun outdid himself here.]] One of the reasons this game still stands out a bit (other than its timing) was that it actually sounded ''way'' different than most Game Boy Advance music, and the Game Boy Advance didn't have very good sound-capabilities at all. In fact, the gamerip soundtrack even sounds better than some ''Nintendo DS'' hardware.
20	* BestBossEver:
21	** The two non-adept battles in ''The Lost Age''. Briggs because he can turn out to be ThatOneBoss (see below) depending on which order and even then, could be ThatOneBoss. Moapa and his knights are much more straightforward, but they follow this game's version of the "Colisseum" and this time you do a team battle.
22	** As far as optional bosses go, the Star Magician is considered to be one of the best battles - primarily because it is a PuzzleBoss. It summons various orbs that use different effects that vary between healing, buffing, and attacking. This results in players being forced to make an odd decision in which orb(s) to keep alive since the Star Magician will always summon more. It actually returned in ''VideoGame/GoldenSunDarkDawn''.
23	* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
24	** As far as battles goes, due to spells not increasing in usefulness, the best strategy is just to keep hitting attack on all your enemies and save your PP for healing. The game has some really nice looking attacks, but the best way to fight is just ignore those. That said, physical weapon unleashes are very random and you have to go all out to find and obtain the critical-enhancing items.
25	** There are a lot of powerful, useful classes in the game, unlocked through special items and through different combinations of elemental Djinn. You could experiment with this ClassAndLevelSystem to find them... or you could just give everyone Djinn that match their starting elements, play to their existing strengths as characters and Adepts, and call it a day, which works just as well most of the time.
26	* CrackPairing: Everybody/everybody, but the weirdest ones include Isaac/the roof of his house and the Kraken/the Tolbi-bound Ship that it attacks.
27	* CultClassic: It has long been overshadowed by Nintendo's other EasternRPG franchises like ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'', ''Franchise/FireEmblem'', and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles'', but it has a very devoted cult following among both Nintendo and JRPG fans in general, and is generally one of the most common answers given in "most underrated Nintendo franchises" or "most underrated [=JRPGs=]" discussions.
28	* DemonicSpiders:
29	** The game, thankfully, doesn't have too many of these...until you get to [[spoiler: [[BonusDungeon Anemos Inner Sanctum.]]]] Practically everything in there is some form of this, the worst being the Mad Demons and the Sky Dragons. The former has an attack that has a chance to reduce its target's HP to 1 while the latter is a LightningBruiser with access to powerful Jupiter psynergies.
30	** Also, the Stone Soldiers are pretty nasty, especially when you find out about their ActionBomb capacities.
31	** The Wonder Birds, which are capable of moving three times per turn (which is more than most bosses), have devastating Mars psynergy, and can revive fallen enemies. However, they are sought by players [[PinataEnemy due to the immense amount of XP you can get off them]].
32	* DisappointingLastLevel: There are some who view the western side of Weyard as this in ''The Lost Age'', primarily because it's much emptier than the eastern side of the world with only a handful of landmark(s). Of course, it makes up for it by having the story speed up, and giving the player the Jupiter Lighthouse.
33	* DracoInLeatherPants:
34	** Alex isn't evil, he's just misunderstood!! (Spoiler alert, no and no.)
35	** Averted with Karst - besides the obvious fact of being an AntiVillain, it seems that nobody actually ''wanted'' her to [[spoiler: take her revenge on Isaac anyway.]] The events of the plot are probably also a factor.
36	* EvenBetterSequel: ''The Lost Age''. The story was originally meant to be one game, but the developers still tried to improve on the original game. A lot of this comes down to refining the system and having a cast of more talkative characters. While the plot was never the main draw, there's more of an effort to flesh out all aspects of Weyard, and the puzzles are expanded on significantly. The length was also welcomed and allowed players to grow accustomed to Jenna, Sheba, and Felix as actual protagonists instead of hostages, and Kraden's lectures gave the world a lot more life.
37	* EnsembleDarkhorse: Several.
38	** Karst, who easily has the most relatable motives and well-developed character of all the duology's antagonists. The ShipTease with [[spoiler:Felix, near the end]] doesn't hurt either, since [[spoiler: so many fanfic writers consciously choose to save her, regardless of whether they actually care that [[TheUnfavourite Agatio]] died with her]].
39	** The bonus bosses Star Magician and the Dullahan are the fandom's darlings, largely ''because'' [[SuperBoss they're both so brutally difficult.]] The epic struggles various players had against the duo are spoken of in equal parts terror and reverence. Perhaps because of this, the Guardian of Water and the Keeper of Light came back for Dark Dawn as the game's ultimate challenges once again, with Star Magician picking up more balls to further infuriate players while the Dullahan took Valukar's old gimmick Crucible with him into his rematch to up the ante and sheer chaos of his fight even further.
40	** Among the summons:
41	*** Judgment the badass angelic knight who [[KillSat fires destructive beams]] from his [[ArmCannon lion-shaped cannon]] is easily the most popular of all the summons. Even when outclassed by stronger summons and many enemies resisted Venus in the games he remains a fan favorite, so much that in the sequel one of the new summons, Catastrophe, is just Judgment with a coat of paint.
42	*** ''The Lost Age'' introduced the colossal orange dragon Eclipse and the demonic dragon-launching knight Catastrophe; both who [[KillSat attack similarly]] to Judgment, [[SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome having two of the best attack sequences]] in the series and also have a massive fanbase.
43	*** [[LadyOfWar Megaera]] and [[OurFairiesAreDifferent Flora]] are not only loved for their charming designs but also for their useful secondary effects (attack boosts and Sleep status respectively for a cheap cost).
44	*** [[TheMedic Coatlicue]] is the only summon that cannot deal any damage whatsoever. This aspect of hers makes her very notable alongside her [[CostumePorn incomprehensible yet crazily-cool-looking outfit.]]
45	* FanNickname: The fans called Matthew "Robin", Isaac's Japanese name, before he was officially named. Probably because fans weren't initially sure Matthew WAS a new and separate character, since he is [[StrongFamilyResemblance extremely similar]] to Isaac.
46	* FanPreferredCouple:
47	** "Prox-shipping" is not actually canon (so far as we know, anyway), but it is pretty rare to see Saturos and Menardi paired with anyone but each other in the fandom.
48	** "Lighthouse-shipping"[[note]]Felix and Sheba[[/note]] and "Dusk-shipping"[[note]]Felix and Karst[[/note]] are quite popular due to [[ShipTease a certain end-game event]] in the first and second game respectively. [[RecurringElement A similar event is repeated]] in ''Dark Dawn'' which gives birth to a new FanPreferredCouple.
49	* FanWank: Due to the numerous hints about [[spoiler:Anemos and its legends]], many people presume that Sheba [[spoiler:came from Anemos and fell from there into Lalivero]]. The game [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot avoids]] actually resolving this, however. Even so, some people liked the resulting character development, slight as it was.
50	* GameBreaker:
51	** Jupiter in general. As an element, Jupiter clearly has the advantage in the ElementalRockPaperScissors system, being strong against the vast majority of enemies in the game. The classes offered by the Jupiter Djinn are cleanly better than the alternatives. The Apprentice and Page class line is a MagicKnight that borders on being MasterOfAll, with powerful physical and magical psynergy, the Impact series, coupled with high stats in every area, has the notable advantages of a massive PP pool and extremely high agility stats. The symbiotic class lines available to the Mercury and Jupiter adepts are extremely useful, being buffers and healers who also get access to some of the strongest Mercury and Jupiter offensive psynergy available, essentially combining the best aspects of the Wind and Water Seer class series. The only disadvantage to the Jupiter classes is that their focus towards higher quality of offensive psynergy creates a massive gap between their psynergy progression, which is more than made up for by the higher base power of the spells, allowing them to be a strong option for a good chunk of the early game. Even the Ninja class series, commonly agreed to be the best overall class in the game, requires Jupiter Djinn. The Jupiter classes are so potent that its not an exaggeration to say that the game's overall progression is dictated by the amount of Jupiter Djinn available at any given time, and the sheer advantages of the Jupiter element are already apparent in the first game, before [[SequelEscalation becoming even more dominant]] in ''The Lost Age'' and ''Dark Dawn''.
52	** The summons, especially on bosses due to summons additionally cutting a percentage of max HP on top of their usual power. You can very easily breeze through 90% of the first game just abusing summons, ending battles in around 2 turns or less, with the exception of the final boss due to the SequentialBoss system. The downside is that your stats are reduced until the Djinn you used cool down (which costs many turns in battles) and the game is easy enough without them. Averted in ''The Lost Age'' onward [[SequelEscalation since all enemies and bosses have more hitpoints and attack more often]], such that every other mode of attack sans weapon unleashes, [=EPAs=], and summons (but see the drawbacks above) only deal ScratchDamage to them, while they can dish out the hurt in return.
53	** As mentioned above, weapon unleashes are as broken if not more than the summons. The end-game ones outright multiply damage to a certain amount, especially Sol Blade's unleash Megiddo which ''triples'' the damage output. Elemental resistances barely matter because the damage dealt is that big. All this without ''any'' negative drawbacks such as PP limit or temporary stat reduction for psynergy and summons respectively. The only hindrance is that unleash rates are random, but those are not a problem when unleash-rate-boosting items (and materials for some of them) can be easily farmed in this game with a specific RNG method.
54	** For the Sol Blade's Megiddo, it is possible to have a 99% Unleash Rate, meaning you would almost guarantee massive damage each turn without exhausting resources. The Sol Blade itself has a 35% unleash rate, but equipping the Valkyrie Mail (20%), Riot Gloves (20%), Mythril Helm (12%), Hyper Boots (12%). If a team member has the Kite Djinni, he/she can spam that to either Isaac or Felix and continuously do massive damage.
55	** The Spirit Ring, an early game healing item in ''The Lost Age'' which, most likely due to [[GoodBadBugs an oversight]], can be used indefinitely outside of battle, ensuring your party has full health between every fight.
56	** The Flash+Shade strategy, which involves using two Djinn that cut damage by 60% and 90% repeatedly. You can pretty much stall infinitely against anything that isn't the Doom Dragon or Dullahan.
57	** The Petra+Ground lock strategy against individual enemies/bosses that can perform 1 action. Both Djinn have priority and each one stops an enemy from moving. One user uses one of the Djinn in Turn 1 and then sets Djinn on Turn 2, and vice versa on the other user who has the other Djinni. What this does is ensure that the enemy/boss cannot move at all while allowing the other 2 users to keep on attacking.
58	* GeniusBonus: The positions of continents in ''Golden Sun: The Lost Age'' is quite similar to where their real-life counterparts were during the Cretaceous, in particular Indra (India's counterpart) being located between Gondowan (Africa's counterpart) and Osenia (Australia's counterpart). Gondowan is even named after Gondwana, a former supercontinent that grouped Africa, South America and other southern hemisphere continents.
59	* GoodBadBugs:
60	** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIdt53_mqXQ This glitch]] allows you to get your claws on the above-mentioned GameBreaker InfinityPlusOneSword Sol Blade ''as early as Air's Rock''.
61	** An exploit in Trial Road allows you to duplicate any equipment you can find before Jupiter Lighthouse. While you can't use it on the Sol Blade or Valkyrie Mail due to them coming in after Jupiter, you can use it to duplicate valuables such as the Golden Boots, Guardian Ring, and class-changing items.
62	* HesJustHiding: Explicitly stated by the Wise One as a possibility regarding [[spoiler:Alex's fate]] in the ending credits. [[spoiler:Confirmed in ''VideoGame/GoldenSunDarkDawn''.]]
63	* HoYay: Iodem's fervent UndyingLoyalty towards Lord Babi pretty consistently raises eyebrows among the fanbase. May also qualify as NoYay considering Babi's age and overall sketchiness.
64	* HypeBacklash: Even back when it was released, there were gamers who, beyond the sound and the graphics, didn't think the game was terribly noteworthy and felt it suffered from poor design.
65	* InferredHolocaust: The lack of presence of a Venus Clan is often speculated as they are overlooked by the characters in all three games. That being said, given that Felix, Jenna's brother (who is a Mars adept), and Isaac are Venus adepts, then the Venus Clan seems to be split between Vale and interbred with the Mars Clan. It is also mentioned that Venus/Mars are related and Mercury/Jupiter are related. Mercury and Jupiter are also similarly divided with Mercury being split between Imil and Lemuria and Jupiter being split between Contigo and possibly '''''the moon'''''. If anything, the Mars Clan is the exception, not the rule.
66	* LauncherOfAThousandShips: ''Everyone'' is one of these to the fandom.
67	* LowTierLetdown:
68	** While the battle system is heavily biased against mages, Ivan and Sheba get it the worst, since they are too frail and difficult to be used in the late game. Some players who have difficulty using them tend to permanently bench those two even though their element is strong against the majority of enemies and bosses. At least their class options boosts the stats they frequently use.
69	** For those who actually used Ivan and Sheba, Piers gets some flak due to his class options clashing horribly with his stats. He is supposed to be more of a warrior, but being a Mercury Adept, most of his class options are mage-based, leaving his attack stat much lower than acceptable for a frontline tank if placed in most of the classes he has access to. The uneven Djinn distribution (due to the unbalanced classes) can make him worse than he already is; while most Adepts can function perfectly fine just going with a monotyped Djinn build of their element, Piers ''really'' needs to branch out to compete with everyone else. His Mercury classes do give him Diamond Berg, but his PP is horrendous no matter what, and outside of Felix, he has the most uses of psynergy in any given dungeon.
70	* MagnificentBastard:
71	** [[GodhoodSeeker Alex]] is the closest thing the series has to a BigBad, running the course of EnigmaticMinion to eventual mastermind in the span of three games. A Mercury Adept who betrayed his cousin and his clan for the pursuit of personal power, Alex makes and breaks alliances with heroes and villains alike at his own convenience, always concealing his true intentions behind a stoic, cool-headed exterior. Alex rarely even personally dirties his hands, one of the few times he does resulting in him singlehandedly [[OneManArmy wiping out an entire battalion of elite soldiers]]. At the climax of ''The Lost Age'', Alex manipulates every party into a position where they have no choice but activate the Elemental Lighthouses and bestow Alex the godlike power of Alchemy. Even when Alex is OutGambitted (requiring literal divine intervention) and seemingly left for dead on the collapsing Mt. Aleph, Alex adopts the identity of Arcanus in ''[[VideoGame/GoldenSunDarkDawn Dark Dawn]]'' and resumes old habits, cheerfully manipulating entire nations to his advantage and activating the apocalyptic event known as the Grave Eclipse. At ''Dark Dawn'''s end, Alex appears to betray his allies once again to undo the apocalypse he himself wrought, and escapes to seemingly end the series as he started it: unharmed, unfazed, and a total mystery to everyone who knows him.
72	** [[BigGood The Wise One]] is the guardian of the power of Alchemy, the last creation of the Ancients and the last threshold for anyone seeking to harness the power of the Golden Sun for themselves. Having been meticulously [[TheManBehindTheMan guiding the heroes since the first game]], the Wise One subjects the heroes and villains alike with ruthless tests designed to [[SecretTestOfCharacter test their moral character]] and see if they're worthy to wield the power of Alchemy. The Wise One is so ruthless it tricks the heroes into facing a dragon secretly composed of the mutated forms of Isaac's father and Jenna's parents in a ploy to either shatter them or prove they have what it takes to handle the Golden Sun. When this test is passed, the Wise One graciously concedes and resurrects the heroes' parents. The Wise One is also the one character in the series to [[OutGambitted Out-Gambit]] Alex, secretly sabotaging the means with which Alex attempts to achieve godhood, then swiftly defeating Alex and leaving him on a collapsing mountain to ruminate about his mistakes.
73	* MemeticBadass: There is a fan forum known as the Temple of Kraden, which the ''Golden Sun'' wiki amusingly describes as "[where] Kraden is revered as a god-like figure, although it is reasonably sure that users are joking about their level of devotion to him." Also, the below-mentioned joke about him becoming a playable character. It has almost become an AscendedMeme in ''Dark Dawn''.
74	* MemeticMutation:
75	** There were a few fans who preferred Piers' Japanese name, Picard, so they used "Pow pow Picard!" as a rally cry.
76	** Kraden is surprisingly popular within the fanbase. As described by [[http://goldensunwiki.net/Kraden#In_fan_circles Golden Sun's wiki]], it is "an endearing tradition to revere him as a godlike figure with comically extreme devotion." To the point that a popular [[FanNickname fan-made name]] for a Weyard equivalent of Christmas is [[CrystalDragonJesus Kraden]]mas.
77	** Referring to the FinalBoss [[spoiler: Doom Dragon]] as the [[spoiler: Damn Dragon]] because it has multiple [[ThatOneAttack That One Attacks]], which it can use ''multiple'' turns in a row, sometimes the ''same turn''. It's also a much larger DifficultySpike compared to what the player had been used to before.
78	* MisaimedFandom: The second game reveals that [[spoiler:Saturos and Menardi were actually doing what was right for the world and their hometown]], which had prompted some fans to believe that Isaac and co. beating the tar out of the pair in the first game to be a KickTheDog moment or make the crew look LawfulStupid. Except that, [[FourthWallMyopia when seen from]] ''their'' perspective, they had very good reason to assume Saturos & Menardi were evil and had ulterior motives. In the first game, Saturos and Menardi beat up two kids who had no way of fighting back, talked down to everyone who wasn't aligned with them, threatened people, killed/beat up people who got in their way, never ''once'' thought to explain ''why'' they were trying to light the beacons, kidnapped people, held them for ransom, and attempted to kill the party at least two times. Even taking their [[spoiler:true intentions]] into account, it's hard to ''really'' fault Isaac & Co. (as well as the players!) for thinking them as evil. Even the Proxians are understanding of Isaac's situation when they're told he killed them. Of course, everyone was right with Alex.
79	* {{Narm}}:
80	** Boreas may be a strong summon, but that doesn't change the fact that it's basically a ''giant ice maker''. It's also the most useful summon in the entire first game. Which nets it some [[MemeticBadass Memetic Badassitude]], which is just hilarious considering yeah, it's pretty much a giant ice maker. To put it simply: One of the best summons in the first game is making snow cones over your enemies.
81	** Saying no in places where you're given a yes/no question sometimes results in a character or some characters having a mood swing for a few lines before going back to normal.
82	* NightmareFuel: While it's shown pretty simply about how the continents are shrinking during the Lemuria sequence in response to Alchemy's seal, you hardly see anything proving how dangerous the lack of Alchemy is...until you get to Mars Lighthouse and see an endless black void stretching across your screen in the north. This serves as the proof and motivation for your quest; the world is ''literally falling apart bit by bit as time goes on into this pitch black NOTHING'' and its close proximity to Prox is why Saturos, Menardi, Karst, and Agatio were sent on their quest to begin with. Also notice just how close this immense void is to Mars Lighthouse. While the scaling of the map, locations, and your party are a bit exaggerated, it's still not that far away, which begs a question....would Mars Lighthouse have fallen into the void if it reached it, or would the surrounding area have fallen in? Either case would result in the quest becoming a complete failure and the world doomed to die. Sweet dreams!
83	* OnceOriginalNowCommon: In the [=2000s=], these games stunned audiences for looking and playing more like something you would see on the UsefulNotes/SegaSaturn or the Sony Playstation rather than a ''handheld''. They're often seen as painfully generic [=JRPGs=] nowadays... which would be true, if it weren't for the fact that when they came out, there ''were'' very few (if at all) [=RPGs=] ''period'' on the UsefulNotes/GameBoyAdvance. There were very few original [=IPs=] on the Game Boy Advance ''period'' at the time - so people often associate it with the system. It still remains a CultClassic despite its flaws, helped by the fact some elements of gameplay are actually an aversion of this trope - such as the usage of the player's own 'magic' (here psynergy) to solve puzzles - and persist in being novel to this very day, since so few games have anything similar to reading minds or making platforms with ice 'magic.'
84	* PlayerPunch: [[spoiler:The revelation that the final boss of ''Lost Age'', the Doom Dragon, is a ForcedTransformation consisting of the heroes' parents comes only ''after'' you slay the beast. It's mitigated in that the parents do come back, but the impact of the reveal itself is one of the most devastating ever featured in a GBA game.]]
85	* QuicksandBox:
86	** The first game is fairly straightforward despite having a vague goal of "Stop Saturos and Menardi". There's only a bit of freedom, but also little opportunity to get lost. The second game, however, sets you in the entire ''rest'' of the world with even ''more'' vague goals, and the only thing indicating that you should be exploring around being obstacles you cannot bypass without having specific psynergy at hand. It's highly likely for you to [[SequenceBreaking sequence break]] without even knowing, with the only indication that you probably shouldn't go that way being trash mobs and bosses who're [[BeefGate disproportionately powerful]] compared to how you are.
87	** There is a part in the second game in which you aren't told what you have to do other than "Go to Lemuria", and a "Get to the other side of the world" but it's blocked by an obstacle. While it is a little more non-linear and some people actually really like that, the game doesn't have an easy way to keep track of what you've already done, so the only way to figure out whether or not you completed certain dungeons was to go explore them and find that that was the trident piece you had in your inventory. The other half of the world is thankfully less vague about where to go, since there isn't as much content. Not only that, but once you get the ship, there's very little telling you that you have to do certain things. For example, there's very little reason to go to Tundaria Tower to get that Trident Piece.
88	* ReplacementScrappy: A small portion of the fanbase remained convinced that Saturos and Menardi had somehow survived their DisneyVillainDeath and would return in the second game. Naturally, these fans did not take kindly to the introduction of Agatio and Karst.
89	* ScrappyMechanic:
90	** For both games, the fact that when in combat and an enemy that is targeted by a party member is killed by another party member before the first has had their turn, the former will automatically defend when their turn comes up. This means that said party member wastes their turn allowing the other enemies on the battlefield to survive to attack thus requiring the player to carefully manage which party members attack which enemies to avoid this which is difficult to do because enemies have no visible HP bars. What makes this particularly annoying is the fact that with most other turned based [=RPGs=] simply switching to attacking another target in the same situation instead is a common thing and thus expected here.
91	** The lack of a separated folder for key items, as the limited inventory is likely to become full of psynergy enabling items, PlotCoupons and unique items you don't want to drop. Making it worse is that there's no separation of equipment from the rest of your inventory, meaning that half of a character's inventory slots are going to be taken up by their gear and making it even harder to find room for everything else.
92	* ScrappyWeapon:
93	** Maces and axes are almost always hated since most of them are early-game weapons which quickly get outclassed by everything else. Even the high-tier ones are hard to find and their unleashes are not as strong as the end-game long sword and light blade ones. One notable exception is the Wicked Mace in the first game due to being easier to find and lethal against the [[EliteMook Tornado Lizard monster line]] and [[{{Superboss}} Deadbeard]].
94	** Poor Levatine gets the shaft due to its unleash Radiant Fire not being as game-breaking as Megiddo, Legend, and Vengeance. This gets averted in ''Dark Dawn'', where changes to the unleash system as well as getting a powerful Jupiter unleash in a game where many things are weak to said element makes Levatine the second-best weapon after the Sol Blade.
95	* {{Shipping}}: Enough of a developed shipping fandom that pretty much every possible pairing among main characters is covered with its own [[IdiosyncraticShipNaming "____shipping" name]], and with copious amounts of {{Crack Pairing}}s too. The ShipToShipCombat can be truly awe-inspiring, especially between Mudshippers (Isaac/Mia) and Valeshippers (Isaac/Jenna). In fact, the shipping fandom is so ridiculously developed that in some circles, even OriginalCharacter ships are named. Just as an example of how ''fast'' GS shipping fandom moves, the Matthew/Karis couple was named "Dawnshipping" within an hour of ''Dark Dawn'' being announced.
96	* SpecialEffectsFailure: While the graphics are excellent for a [=GBA=] game, some of the pre-rendered sprites look obviously resized back and forth and as a result look really overpixeled such as the Serpent, both final bosses and the Mad Demons.
97	* ThatOneAttack:
98	** Djinn Storm, used by both the Doom Dragon and Dullahan, forces all of the party's Djinn into recovery mode. When everyone is in their base classes, their stats take a massive penalty and they lose access to a lot of utility Psynergy like group heal spells and Revive, and any progress toward building up a summon is lost as well. This attack requires a contingency plan to deal with, as it can take up to nine turns for everyone to be back at full power.
99	** Dullahan's Charon and the Doom Dragon's Cruel Ruin are summon-style attacks. Both of them hit all four characters every time, and like the summons you can use, their damage scales with the targets' maximum health, so LevelGrinding won't help anyone survive them. And Dullahan's Charon, just like the player's version, has a chance to OneHitKill everyone it hits. These bosses can easily wipe out the entire front row with a single attack.
100	** Dullahan has a few other very brutal attacks. Fulminous Edge is a basic attack with triple power, meaning only the toughest of Adepts can survive it. True Collide hits up to three characters and restores the boss's health by quite a bit. Condemn has a significant chance of inflicting instant death. And Bind will disable someone's Psynergy, which is particularly troublesome if the boss targets a healer with it.
101	** Cruel Ruin used by the FinalBoss. It deals a truckload of damage that scales off of your max HP (Meaning no amount of grinding will reduce its danger to you). What's more, the FinalBoss can, once it TurnsRed, use it multiple rounds in a row and sometimes ''even after Djinn Storm''.
102	* ThatOneBoss:
103	** Saturos from the first game (when you face him for the first time) can be quite a menace to players that are unprepared, mainly because he has spells that are more powerful than what the players are used to at the point. His second (and final) battle with him is arguably much worse though, as he brought Menardi to assist him and it's a back-to-back boss fights against their default forms and their Fusion Dragon form.
104	** [[BadassNormal Briggs]] from the second game also counts as an [[EarlyGameHell early game example]], as, due to Osenia's layout, he can be fought before encountering a number of dungeons and collecting their Djinn, summons, and items. What makes him more difficult than Saturos is that you only have three party members by the time you reach him while Mia already joins Isaac's group before Saturos' boss fight. Briggs can also summon his crew [[WeHaveReserves over and over again]] to assist him, as opposed to Saturos who fights alone. Needless to say, he's going to mop the floor with you.
105	** Poseidon is a hard-hitting boss with multiple TotalPartyKill attacks and can reflect attacks back at you. Made even worse if you meet him under the wrong circumstances, as he cannot be damaged unless you have a certain artifact obtained after completing [[GuideDangIt a vague]] [[ThatOneSidequest compulsory sidequest]].
106	* ThatOneLevel: [[PunnyName Air's Rock]]. The only saving grace this level has is a very low random encounter rate. To elaborate: the exterior mountain climb of Air's Rock is about as long as any given dungeon up to that point in the second game. Then, the interior exploration of Air's Rock is, in itself, [[MarathonLevel noticeably longer than any other dungeon in either game]], barring the Lighthouses and the other elemental rocks. It also relies extensively on a (relatively expensive, compared to other utility spells) Psynergy that requires [[FragileSpeedster one of the characters]] to be in her default class, which means repeatedly shutting down and turning on her Djinn for any player who places her in a more balanced class. This dungeon is early enough in the game that the player only has the first three characters, although it is possible to wait until you have the fourth party member to attempt it. If you want that fourth party member, however, you'll instead have to fight the WakeUpCallBoss massively underleveled, since he was intended to be fought after Air's Rock. That being said, one really needs to respect Master Maha after that one. How the hell did he ever finish that thing alone?
107	* ThatOneSidequest: Defeating Dullahan in ''The Lost Age''. He is so cheap (even by {{Superboss}} standards) that almost all of his attacks fall under ThatOneAttack. Not to mention that even fighting him requires you to have collected every single Djinn from both games. So if you transfer a file that missed one, you are SOL before you even start Lost Age.
108	* ToughActToFollow: Saturos and Menardi remain the most popular of the antagonistic duo of the entire series due to giving an [[CurbStompBattle overwhelming impression]] in the prologue, giving players their first taste of challenging boss fights in the series as well as [[XanatosGambit being successful in their plans]] even when they're beaten by the protagonists (plot twists aside).
109	* UglyCute: Moloch might be a dopey-looking dog-thing, but some fans found it fluffy and adorable. The same goes for Cybele's frog.

Context YMMV / GoldenSun