Line #62 YMMV/DarkSouls


1	!!YMMV for individual games:
2	* ''YMMV/DarkSoulsI''
3	* ''YMMV/DarkSoulsII''
4	* ''YMMV/DarkSoulsIII''
5
6	!!For the series in general:
7
8	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: [[https://youtu.be/n2jF_9RD0UM This video]] by IGN posits that Patches's long history of luring people to DeathByMaterialism is actually a SecretTestOfCharacter both by Patches and the developers themselves.
9	* BrokenBase:
10	** It's not a very good idea to start an argument over which game in the series is the best, and that includes the series' spiritual siblings ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'', ''VideoGame/{{Bloodborne}}'', ''VideoGame/SekiroShadowsDieTwice'', and ''VideoGame/EldenRing''. All the games have their supporters, and [[FandomRivalry arguments between them can get quite heated]].
11	** The Invasion [[PlayerVersusPlayer PvP]] mechanic is also a common source of contention. It takes a few different forms, but many of them involve other players forcing their way into others' worlds without their consent for the purpose of killing them and hindering their progress. Several game mechanics actively reward this behavior, from offering useful items to advancing in various covenants. There are existing ways to play around it, mostly involving not invoking a powered-up state without which you cannot be invaded or playing offline, but such players cannot then summon either [=NPC=] allies or other players to help them either, and in the latter case don't enjoy messages and encouragement from other players. This is commonly regarded as [[{{Griefer}} actively rewarding griefing]], especially since some forms of it make it very easy for higher-powered players to cheat the system and beat up lower-level players in early areas, running them out of the game. There are even a few people who are aware of this mechanic in Dark Souls and refuse to play the series because of it. Those who do it tend to be very, very defensive, though.
12	** Which is better: [[MightyGlacier strength builds]] or [[LightningBruiser dexterity builds]]? Strength weapons swing more slowly, and necessitate equipping the heaviest armor possible to maximize [[ImmuneToFlinching poise]] to continue their attacks uninterrupted, but as a result have weapons that deal the highest damage and make [[CycleOfHurting stun locking]] easier with their poise damage. Defenders of dexterity point out that this limits the variety of weapons, rings, and armor players can equip, and that it's more important to maximize your ability to dodge in order to escape stun locks, and a flurry of weaker attacks can have the same results as a good strength weapon. The slow nature of strength weapons means a single misstep can result in disaster; strength defenders argue this simply makes strength DifficultButAwesome. This divide only got deeper as more games were released, and every subsequent game {{nerf}}ed poise[[note]]In ''[=DS1=]'', poise was constantly active; in ''[=DS2=]'' poise was only active while you were performing an action, and in ''[=DS3=]'' it was only active during certain frames of specific actions[[/note]], making it seem like the developers favored dexterity over strength.
13	** There's also a growing rift in the fandom over the comparisons drawn to ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'' and the perceived influence it had on the games. Some fans love finding parallels and consider ''Dark Souls'' to be a worthy tribute to ''Berserk'', while others find the constant comparisons to another series to be reductive or even disrespectful to Miyazaki if his work isn't allowed to stand on its own. The fact that [[GodNeverSaidThat the degree to which the manga inspired the games has often been misreported]] doesn't help matters on both sides.
14	* CharacterPerceptionEvolution: Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight (or more precisely, [[spoiler:Gwyn, Lord of Cinder]]), was originally perceived as a tragic WellIntentionedExtremist who [[HeroicSacrifice condemned himself to an eternity of torment]] because he genuinely believed it was the best thing to do, and [[spoiler:the final boss battle against him at the end of the first game]] was seen as an incredibly sad moment. After ''Dark Souls III'' and specifically ''The Ringed City'' revealed that [[spoiler:Gwyn had placed the Darksign on the Pygmies, who were loyal allies in the war against the dragons, because he feared their power]], a lot of people reassessed him as a paranoid, tyrannical old fool who'd engineered his own destruction and caused inconceivable amounts of suffering because of his unwillingness to risk relinquishing any power. While still considered a TragicVillain for his redeemable aspects, the ''later'' portion of that trope is regarded as his prevailing character.
15	* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
16	** Players dedicated to [=PvP=] in the level 120 "meta" range will usually rely on the so-called [[FightsLikeANormal "quality build"]] (40 to 50 Vitality, 30-40 Endurance, 40 Strength and 40 Dexterity) and rely on the top few weapons (of the ''many'' viable weapons) that best match those builds. As a result, [=PvP=] has little variance. [[note]]''Dark Souls II'' ups the [=PvP=] meta level range a little at 150, but has the same gist.[[/note]]
17	** A common trend among builds with enough Strength and Vitality is towards the use of a OneHandedZweihander, whether it be pairing it with a shield, or dual wielding them.
18	* CompleteMonster: ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' is a dark series, but [[YMMV/DarkSoulsI Seath the Scaleless]], [[YMMV/DarkSoulsII Nashandra]], [[YMMV/DarkSoulsIII Aldrich & Pontiff Sulyvahn]] manage to outdo any other for sheer horror. See those pages for details.
19	* DifficultySpike:
20	** Even given that the games are tough as nails, there are usually bits where it goes from "very hard" to "much harder than that": Blighttown in the first game, for example, is like having all your teeth pulled out by a dentist with very dirty hands, while the Cathedral of the Deep in the third starts off a sequence of 4-6 {{That One Level}}s ''in a row''.
21	** Users of Gravelord Servant can spawn Red Phantom [=NPC=]s, which are stronger counterparts of some of the enemies found in a given area, in other players' worlds. Of course, [[LaserGuidedKarma the infected players can invade the one responsible for spreading the plague]]. Thankfully enough, a gravelord infection is seldom seen, and red phantoms only spawn when the player attempts NewGamePlus and beyond.
22	* EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame: A small but growing portion of the fandom falls into this territory, with quite a few people praising the surprisingly deep and creative story and innovative storytelling techniques but being turned away from actually playing the game by the [[NintendoHard relentlessly brutal and frustrating difficulty]]. In fact, part of the reason why channels like [=VaatiVidya=] are so popular is that they provide a way of experiencing the lore of the series for people who either don't want to or physically cannot adjust to the gameplay.
23	* FandomRivalry:
24	** An odd mix of this and FriendlyFandoms with ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'', particularly around the divisive Wii/DS years of the latter series. With many longtime ''Zelda'' fans being disillusioned with the series for moving towards linearity, greater focus on story, and lowered difficulty, many of them came to ''Dark Souls'' for an more [[WideOpenSandbox open]] experience with little handholding, a more subtle and mysterious story, more complex and difficult combat. As such, it isn't uncommon for many classic ''Zelda'' fans to name ''Dark Souls'' as "what ''Zelda'' should be." With the release of ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild Breath of the Wild]]'' managing to WinBackTheCrowd for these fans, many of them credit ''Dark Souls'' for inspiring ''Zelda'' to "return to its roots."
25	** A straight example of this is with ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''. As both ''Dark Souls'' and ''Elder Scrolls'' are two of the most popular ActionRPG franchises of TheNewTens, fans of both tend to clash with one another.
26	** Developed one for a while with the ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter'' community after the ''VideoGame/MonsterHunterWorld'' reveal, with many a ''Souls'' fan making comparisons. Veteran Monster Hunters were not amused; While it isn't the only game to be compared due to difficulties, the former were most vocal. It was mostly one-sided, as most ''Souls'' players enjoyed the latter.
27	* FandomVIP: The ''Dark Souls'' community has several:
28	** [=VaatiVidya=] and LetsPlay/EpicNameBro are both known for their in-depth, comprehensive analysis of the game series' lore (which is famously vague and complex). [=OnlyAfro=], on the other hand, is a FountainOfMemes who usually posts videos of himself trolling people in [=PvP=] in numerous inventive (and usually hilarious) ways.
29	** The Pretty Princess himself, WebVideo/{{Zerolenny}}. Armed with nothing but a broken sword and a PimpedOutDress, Lenny's challenge runs are required viewing in the Souls community, even if they're not as impressive as a no-hit or Soul level 1 run.
30	** Data miners Zullie the Witch and Lance [=McDonald=] are also well loved for unearthing cut content and shining a light on the development process for the games. A large amount of the information in the WhatCouldHaveBeen sections for these games comes directly from them.
31	* FanNickname:
32	** Since ''Bloodborne'' is a mechanically similar game also from [=FromSoft=], it is often lumped in with the ''Dark Souls'' series and ''Demon's Souls'', which results in the ''[=SoulsBorne=]'' games. The addition of ''VideoGame/SekiroShadowsDieTwice'' has resulted in some jokes about the new name being ''Sekiroulsborne'' or something similar.
33	** For some recurring elements within the games:
34	*** "Fat Rolling" refers to the instance when the player character is overencumbered after reaching a certain Equipment Load threshold, resulting into shorter and slower dodge rolls than usual.
35	*** The Estus Flask is simply called "Sunny D" because it somewhat resembles a Sunny Delight bottle. This nickname also created fanarts and [[MemeticMutation memes]] replacing the in-game Estus Flask with that product.
36	** While the games starting with the first just call the player's level "Level" instead of "[[BeamMeUpScotty Soul Level]]", players still often call them Soul Levels [[ArtifactName since they were called that in]] ''[[ArtifactName Demon's Souls]]''.
37	* FirstInstallmentWins: While there are vocal contingents who prefer the two sequels, the first ''Dark Souls'' tends to be more well-loved and less controversial than either of its sequels, which endlessly get compared to the original because of this. Some of the more extreme fans consider the "real" ''Souls'' series to be ''Demon's Souls'', ''Dark Souls'', ''[=Bloodborne=]'', and ''VideoGame/EldenRing'' (with ''Sekiro'' sometimes thrown in), feeling that From is at its best trying to build new franchises with somewhat similar, yet ultimately distinct design philosophies and gameplay over attempting to build on what was already good.
38	* FriendlyFandoms:
39	** With ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'', due to the huge influence the manga has had on ''Dark Souls'', whose developers are fans of the series. Some fans go so far as to consider ''Dark Souls'' a better adaptation of ''Berserk'' than the [[VideoGame/SwordOfTheBerserkGutsRage actual]] [[VideoGame/BerserkAndTheBandOfTheHawk video games]] based on the series.
40	** The fans are also quite friendly to ''Literature/ReZero'', because the anime adaptation of the latter was found as a fairly interesting SpiritualAdaptation of the series with its idea of returning back after death.
41	* GameBreaker: There are many, many ways to heavily mitigate the difficulty of each game in the series, as explained on [[GameBreaker/DarkSouls this page]]. That said, most of them don't work in every situation, and From often [[ObviousRulePatch patches out]] the more egregious ones.
42	* GenreTurningPoint: Prior to the first game, third-person action games generally consisted of button-mashing until one defeated their enemies, with success in battle usually determined just by making effective use of special moves and not trying to take on too many enemies at once (and having the right armor and weapons, if the game had any sort of equipment system). ''Dark Souls'', while not the first game to place an emphasis on learning enemy attack patterns and then effectively countering and dodging them — while also eschewing any form of MercyInvincibility, thus allowing enemies to quickly stun-lock and beat you to death if you tried button-mashing your way to victory — was the one which made it the standard approach for action games in UsefulNotes/TheNewTens.
43	* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: The games are successful in Japan, but find their largest audience in Europe and North America, largely because they're strongly Western in terms of gameplay and aesthetics.
44	* HypeBacklash: Some feel that the series' memetic status as the gold standard for NintendoHard modern video games ("_____ is like ''Dark Souls''!" "The ''Dark Souls'' of _____") has gotten [[DiscreditedMeme worn out]] over time. Most of these complaints come from players who have gotten used to the series' brand of challenge, as well as [[FandomRivalry fans of other challenging games]]. This phrasing has also been used unironically by multiple game reviewers to a great deal of mockery, such as Gamesradar and Eurogamer with ''VideoGame/CrashBandicootNSaneTrilogy'' and ''VideoGame/SpyroReignitedTrilogy'' respectively claiming that the games are "too hard".
45	* MemeticBadass: Plenty within the actual games, but the series itself has become a bizarre meta example. Just about any game that's even moderately challenging will be compared to ''Dark Souls'' or be called "the ''Dark Souls'' of its genre", even games with absolutely no similarities to the series, such as ''VideoGame/{{Cuphead}}''. Part of the reason is because the [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast title and aesthetic tell you exactly what to expect difficulty-wise]]. Comparing hard games to, for instance, a cartoon platformer like the aforementioned Crash Bnadicoot [[SurpriseDifficulty lacks the same intimidation factor]] even if technically true.
46	** Another meta example is [[https://www.youtube.com/user/VaatiVidya VaatiVidya]], a [=YouTuber=] who does lore summaries on the characters and stories of the games. His videos are usually the average player's first introduction to the deep lore of the series, which has garnered him fame as the prime expert on the subject. Especially since he's able to ramble off the insanely intricate lore at a moment's notice.
47	-->'''[[https://www.youtube.com/user/Criken2 Criken2]]''': Quick, Vaati, the lore!\
48	'''Vaati''': [[MotorMouth Uuh, this is the blood of the old wolf, Sif, and it's going back and forcing them to fight over and over again but now we killed them and it's gonna come back as the lord of cinder!]]
49	* MemeticMutation: [[Memes/DarkSouls has its own page here.]]
50	* MisaimedFandom:
51	** No, you're not supposed to have any sympathy for people who invade as a red. Problem is, players who set themselves up with others to "gank" are seen in the wrong.
52	** Gwyndolin is a popular character among transgender players thanks to said fans sympathising with how he's forced to pretend to be a woman, but a certain aggressive minority of these fans instead read Gwyndolin as being a transwoman, completely disregarding all of the evidence in the game that says otherwise and even verbally attacking fans who refer to him with male pronouns while steadfastly referring to him with female pronouns. In other words, they're doing the very same things that, in the lore of the game, made Gwyndolin miserable.
53	* SugarWiki/MostWonderfulSound: The ambient hum that is heard whenever you enter a new location or light a bonfire. In the latter's case, this is exceptionally soothing to hear after going through ThatOneLevel and finding a bonfire right afterwards.
54	* PlayTheGameSkipTheStory: While the trilogy ''does'' have a complex story, many chose to play through the game instead since the story is not something that's outright told, most of it being in the item descriptions, the big draw mostly being the challenging gameplay.
55	* PopularWithFurries: Despite the game series being a depressing DarkFantasy, it still gets its own fair share of furry fans, with prominent examples being the Bell Gargoyles, Capra Demons, and especially the [[DraconicHumanoid Dragonoid]] [[ScaledUp forms]]. Said Dragonoids are especially prone to receiving SelfFanservice from furry artists, most notably ''Dark Souls III''[='=]s incarnation.
56	* RecurringFanonCharacter: JustForFun/GiantDad is a fan-created "character" meant to poke fun at [=PvP=] builds and the "tryhards" that use them. A version of the Chosen Undead (or any later protagonist) wearing the Mask of the Father and the Giant Armor/Gauntlets/Leggings, Giantdad is portrayed as a MemeticBadass and MemeticTroll that trash-talks his opponents with poorly-spelled InternetJerk rhetoric, using the Chaos Zweihander to kill his foes in four hits and taunting them after their death with the "Well, what is it?" gesture.
57	* RetroactiveRecognition: Creator/HannahJohnKamen of ''Series/{{Killjoys}}'' and ''Film/AntManAndTheWasp'' fame voiced two characters in the ''Dark Souls'' series: Lord's Blade Ciaran in [[VideoGame/DarkSouls the first game]] and Sweet Shalquoir in [[VideoGame/DarkSoulsII the sequel]]. Her role as Ciaran was pretty much her acting debut before she went on to nab bigger roles in film and television.
58	* SacredCow: Because of its reputation as bucking the less-than-desirable trends of modern gaming (such as spoon-feeding rewards and overexplanation of both story and gameplay) while still retaining the good parts of such, the ''Dark Souls'' series is often considered close to the pinnacle of gaming as a whole, and any potential criticism tends to be viciously shut down.
59	* SelfImposedChallenge: Because some people don't think the game is hard enough.
60	** The Company of Champions in the second game is explicitly built to be this. After the (many) warnings the game presents you with, joining the associated covenant will give enemies boosted damage and health, infinite respawns, and will disable co-op until you abandon it.
61	** "Castlevania/Belmont Runs" a.k.a. Whip-only runs (which the game admits flat out on the weapons description is a JokeWeapon almost useless against anything with armor) are common. Less ridiculous in the second game, where whips become a LethalJokeItem on Dexterity builds if you can keep your foes at a distance.
62	** The famed "Guts Run", meant to emulate the main character of ''{{Manga/Berserk}}'' (no helmet, no shield, only two-hand melee weapons, only crossbows as ranged weapons, no spells outside of ranged fire spells, throwing knives and emergency dagger allowed).
63	** Similar to the "Guts Run", is the Cosplay Run. Essentially you do your best to look like a character from another piece of media and try to emulate their fighting style, appearance, and personality as best as possible.
64	** More generally, there's the "Fashion Souls" style. The idea is to get good enough at the game that you can ignore stats entirely and just wear whatever looks [[RuleOfCool cool]] or [[RuleOfFunny silly]] to you.
65	** The Soul Level 1 run, which is completing the entire game without ''ever'' leveling up.
66	** Bare-fist or naked runs, where players complete the games without using weapons and/or armor, [[BareFistedMonk beating bosses and enemies to death with their bare hands]]. Often done in combination with Soul Level 1 runs.
67	** Broken sword runs, where you can only use the Broken Straight Sword[[note]]the description of which reads "[[SchmuckBait only the truly hollowed would think of using this as a weapon]]." It deals about 10 damage a swing[[/note]]. [[WebVideo/{{Zerolenny}} Dress is optional]].
68	** In ''[[VideoGame/DarkSoulsI Dark Souls I]]'', the Calamity Ring, obtained from slaying Black Dragon Kalameet, doubles the damage its wearer takes. [[NintendoHard Given the nature of this series]], only the most skilled players would be brave enough to try playing with the Calamity Ring equipped. And on top of all this, while wearing it, the Calamity Ring takes up a ring slot.
69	* SidetrackedByTheGoldSaucer: Even before the actual gameplay! Due to armor stats only serving a purpose in extreme cases, people tend to make various cosplay builds, but spend a good deal in the complex character creation.

Context YMMV / DarkSouls